The Ditchley Portrait: Appeasing Elizabeth I?

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Today we’re exploring the Ditchley portrait, its symbols and the possible motivations that led to it being commissioned…
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Intro / Outro song: Silent Partner, "Greenery" [ • Greenery - Silent Part... ]
SFX from freesfx.co.uk/...
Images (from Wikimedia Commons, unless otherwise stated):
Queen Elizabeth I ('The Ditchley portrait') by Marcus Gheeraerts the Younger (c.1592). Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
Screenshots from: www.npg.org.uk/
Screenshot from: www.npg.org.uk...
Portrait of William Paget, 1st Baron Paget by an unknown Flemish artist (1549). Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
Portrait of Sir Henry Lee by Anthonis Mor (Antonio Moro) (1568). Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
Portrait of Anne Vavasour attributed to John de Critz (c.1605). Held in the collection of the Armourers and Brasiers of the City of London.
Portrait of Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford after an unknown artist (17th century, based on a work of 1575). Held by the National Portrait Gallery.
Portrait of Anne of Denmark by John de Critz (c.1605). Held by the Royal Museums Greenwich.
Screenshot from: www.nationalar...
Quoted texts:
James R Jewitt, “‘Eliza Fortuna’: Reconsidering the Ditchley Portrait of Elizabeth I.” The Burlington Magazine 156, no. 1334 (2014): 293-98. www.jstor.org/s....
Ewan Fernie, "Lee, Sir Henry (1533-1611), queen's champion." Oxford Dictionary of National Biography. 04. Oxford University Press. www-oxforddnb-...
Also consulted, were:
Other relevant entries from The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography Online.
#Elizabethan #Art #History

[@crystalmeier6579]

Hello, I wanted so much to express to you how much your work means to me. I'm 58yrs old. I grew up a 'nerdy' schoolgirl in California, reading history books in the library. I devoured anything Tudor. As an artist, I was constantly drawing, painting and even sewing period tudor costumes. I didn't get a smart phone until 2 years ago and found your channel. Imagine my joy! I've been thrilled, educated and thoroughly entertained ever since. Please accept my gratitude at all your hard work and talent for providing your work. Well done you, and cheers!

[@carrielizthomas]

You should lookup your local Society for Creative Anachronism in your area. This will give you a reason to wearing Tudor clothing you’ve. It would also be a number of likeminded “nerds”. California if you’re still there is the birthplace of the S.C.A.

[@cassandralyris4918]

My personal interpretation of the Latin on this portrait would be something like this: (We) asked, though we did not expect (her forgiveness), For she could, but did not get revenge, (The painted over part on the left lower corner most likely said something about kindness or forgiveness, For she knows that the more she gives the more she has (forgiveness, kindness, loyalty, etc). Yes, it would make much more sense for the lower left hand corner to have Latin on it too, it was probably thoughtlessly painted over by a restorer sometime in the last 500 years, which so sadly happens with great regularity. It's possible that a very superstitious painter intentionally covered up text that appears on the "left hand side" as well (even though they didn't paint over the top left, so no idea). As far as groveling goes this portrait is top notch, it is very beautiful.

[@ReadingthePast]

Ooh, I hadn’t considered a conservator removing something on the left. That’s interesting. I also like your interpretation of the Latin. Thank you 😊

[@EsmereldaPea]

I wonder if modern scientific techniques might reveal what was lost without disturbing the painting itself?

[@mildlycornfield]

The entanglements of the ladies and gentlemen of the court are always fascinating to me. The things they thought they could get away with right under their monarchs' noses!

[@Richard-zm6pt]

Having just read more about these folks, it appears that the Lee-Vavasour/Finch liaison was not necessarily disapproved by ERI. Also, Finch was a sea captain, so he might have been away a lot. I seem to remember a story in which a woman's sea captain husband disappeared for a time and was thought lost at sea. Thinking him dead, she remarried only to have him return! If I understand, Anne went to court a single girl, got involved with Edward de Vere, who was separated from his wife, had the child, was punished along with de Vere, and then was released. De Vere did not support the child initially but did give land and money to Anne. Anne then became Lee's mistress and married Finch sometime before 1590. From what I read, she married John Richardson sometime before 1618, the year she was charged with bigamy. By the time of the visit of the queen to Ditchley, Lee was 59. He died in 1611. So, I wonder, did she marry Richardson after Henry Lee died, between 1611 and 1618, thinking her husband was lost at sea? That makes the most sense to me, based on the dates and her likely devotion to Henry. I wonder what the motivation to marry Richardson was.

[@SlightlySusan]

The Ditchy Portrait has to be the most evocative of all of the portraits of Elizabeth. In his (awful to me) book, Shakespeare's Lost Kingdon, Charles Beauclerk, a descendant of Edward de Vere, claims that this portrait betrays the birth of the son of Elizabeth and the Earl of Oxford. On the other hand, one of the serious Shakespeare scholars, offers that the portrait celebrates the advances in mapmaking which allowed Elizabeth to have a full picture of her lands.

[@ccsullivan9164]

Great portrait and intriguing story! Thank you 🙏🏼 Dr. Kat.

[@reverie6034]

A story I didn’t know! You always teach me cool things but with the Tudors it’s rarely completely new. How exciting! Flattery always got you places with Elizabeth and Henry seems to be doing a very good job of groveling here. Her hands. Her virgin goddess status. Her wealth. Her land. Her power. How saintlike she was in her mercy. All the buttons to push for an indulgent queen. Seems like Henry took some pages out of Robert Dudley’s book of “What to do when you majorly screw up in front of the Queen.” Thank you!!!

[@lizpongratz9466]

Thanks

[@brierek9809]

Anne Vavasour was my 14th great grandmother :)

[@jwrigley100]

Very interesting - thank you! Might you consider making a video about the Savoy Hospital which is still the site of the Savoy Hotel today but which for a time in the late sixteenth century seems to have been something like an apartment complex for the rich and famous. I believe Edward de Vere had an apartment at one time and may also have had a coterie of writers housed there, and it was also home to Penelope Rich - another scandalous woman, not living with her husband. Is my interpretation of it as a posh and rather cosmopolitan London apartment complex justified? How would that have worked? Its not how we normally think of Elizabethan courtiers living. Its very intriguing.

[@Heothbremel]

♥️❤♥️❤♥️❤♥️❤♥️❤♥️❤♥️❤♥️❤♥️

[@kjova251]

I think begging to be forgiven. As a tangent, I was looking up Sir Henry Lee and I saw the portrait of his cousin "Captain Thomas Lee by Marcus Gheeraerts". Do you have an explanation as to why he was painted with no pants on? ;)

[@EH23831]

Maybe Anne had poor impulse control and executive function- she certainly made some rash decisions!!

[@ABruin-vw8bi]

In my opinion, a large flaw in the video presentation is a lack of extreme close-up when a particular subject is discussed (e.g., the rose attached to the ruff, the fan, the gloves, etc.). It would have been very helpful to see each item on which there was a focus up-close. Instead, we see them at somewhat of a distance, without helpful detail. Unfortunate...

[@orsino88]

I doubt that Anne was at Sir Henry’s side during the Ditchley visit, and I would not be surprised if it had been communicated to Lee beforehand that while the Queen was prepared to tolerate *him*, she would not countenance *her*. Remember that she was already a notorious woman before meeting Lee-and had already “done time”! I think Elizabeth loathed the idea that her court might be perceived as a stew, a place for bed hopping-although she had to understand that necessarily functioned as a marriage market.

[@ReadingthePast]

I agree. I also think your assessment of Elizabeth’s concerns and begrudging allowances is spot on too. Thank you 😊

[@Myke_OBrien]

Fascinating as always. I suspect that he was asking for forgiveness, rather than celebrating Elizabeth’s forgiveness. Though the fact that she was willing to visit sounds like she was in a forgiving mood.

[@Bogdragenshule]

This was a lovely video. The portrait was interesting, but Anne was a hit for me. My writer brain was awakened by the web her life was. Thank you.

[@lynnedelacy2841]

Especially as she doesn’t appear to be a natural beauty from the portrait to have captured so many hearts

[@nicolebrunzel6608]

As alway it was a delight to listen to you. As a fellow historian I appreciate the effort and research you put into all your videos. Thank you so much!

[@hobbesthecat6868]

This is very interesting, thank you for the video. I am surprised that she was willing to have such a public life conducting herself this way. In a French court no one would even look twice, but these behaviors for a woman at court are truly scandalous in England. She must have been well liked by the queen and others to ignore her behaviors.

[@livinglikelaura4282]

Another great video - I had just seen this portrait at the MET - Tudor Exhibit - which was stunning!! I wished I had the information presented here before I saw the work. It certainly struck me as a wonderful piece of propaganda - in addition to your thoughts on the other aspects conveyed. Would love more presentations of Tudor art and how they influence thought in the era. Thanks!

[@DonnaV411]

It does seem rather late in life to intentionally enter into a bigamous marriage, especially since she had seemed willing to live with Sir Henry without benefit of marriage and committing adultery. was she very old -- maybe she forgot her husband was still alive -- dementia perhaps? If she was fined, was there a judicial proceeding of any kind? Did she offer a defense? So many questions!

[@margo3367]

I love videos about women in history. Thank you for this. Anne must have had that “certain something” to make her so sought after by men, whom she managed quite well, all things considered. I also noted the portrait of Elizabeth I appeared to show her having wings. Great P.R.! Have a nice weekend. See you next week. ❤

[@carole6779]

My vote is that Sir Henry was still in the process of begging for forgiveness, rather than celebrating any tentative permissions. I find it odd that Anne's pregnancy by Edward De Vere wasn't "discovered" until after their son was born in the Maidens' Chamber. Her portrait indicates a slender woman. There must have been some sort of collective agreement amongst the women of the Court to keep Anne's pregnancy hidden from the Queen... ? Many tangled webs were woven, to be sure. Thanks for another fascinating video! 😊

[@deborahbranham-taylor6682]

I would imagine that it depends on how the woman carries the baby. I have seen small slim woman carry with amazingly little “belly” showing, due to small infants and much less amniotic fluid. If she was one of these she could easily have pulled this off underneath the garb of the time. If she required help to dress, perhaps she only needed a few to keep her secret.

[@kfemme68]

My thought was if she was tall or had a long torso then she may not have shown until she was 8 or 9 months and then she would have needed the help but not as much if it was otherwise. Just a thought.

[@lindawitowski5652]

This is a superior presentation which demonstrates ‘cause and effect’ historical interpretation from the point of genealogical relationships. It solves a long standing genealogical question regarding an ambiguity ties to my Lee family of Virginia and a 6 generation ( all living into their 90’s ) of grandmothers where the last broke the naming tradition in 1900 by naming him Harry, “As there are just to many Henry’s’ to now keep track of!” And yes, the need of forgiveness seems an appropriate theme. Here in the USA we continue to honor the Lee family motto ‘ Be mindful of the future ‘ I now hav a better understanding of the roots and reasons from which it was adapted. Thank You Sir Anthony Lee : Henry continues to be a name that has served this branch of the family honorably.

[@anthonytroisi6682]

Robert E. Lee had more than his share of rascals in his background. His own father Lighthorse Harry Lee was somewhat reckless. To live done his family's association with scandal, Robert E. Lee was determined to behave as gentlemanly and honorably as possible.

[@lisakilmer2667]

I'm so impressed by your ability to find these fascinating old stories! THey rival anything in the tabloids today! Thanks so much for your research!

[@JJMarie3509]

I vote that she kept out of Elizabeth’s way. I would!

[@anthonytroisi6682]

If Elizabeth even visited Sir Henry's Home, she was indicating her toleration of the Vavasour/ Lee relationship. Lee probably got forgiven because Elizabeth was not attracted to him. She became jealous in proportion to the attractiveness of her courtier.

[@Tara........]

Regardless of the motivation behind the portrait, I imagine Elizabeth would have been pleased to see it.

[@Mademoiselle-Bee]

I’m still at the beginning of this video so perhaps you mention it, but this is currently being exhibited at the Metropolitan Museum of Art as part of an excellent exhibit on The Tudors in NYC! Thought I would share for viewers who are stateside!

[@AnastaciaInCleveland]

This exhibit is coming to the Cleveland Museum of Art next month. I can't wait! ~ Anastacia in Cleveland

[@debsjones1990]

Yes, went to the Met with daughter and noticed the Tudor Exhibit and went and saw that painting. Couldn't believe it was there, was very impressed.

[@annfisher3316]

I have always been intrigued by hands in portraits. The position of fingers, especially for women seem to express something on their own. Fascinating discussion in this video, thank you.

[@bethwilliams4760]

Very fascinating video. Elizabeth I standing on a map in the painting. Her gowns were exquisite

[@TheMogregory]

Well, Anne certainly lived an interesting life. A long one too - 90 years. I would love to know about her living arrangements after the bigamy trial. Did she live with John Richardson or John Finch or neither? After all she had another 32 years left to live and I don't imagine she spent them alone. Does she have any descendants?

[@AnneOfCleves1515]

Anne Vavasour really does stand out as one of those very fun, dramatic figures in history that you’d think had been an invention if she was in a piece of historical fiction.

[@tilseptember]

An invention that was unrealistic no less! Because if I’d read about a character in a novel doing what she got away with I’d have been sceptical! Lol

[@michellecornum5856]

Shake my head. What a fortunate girl, indeed. I'm surprised she kept her head as well as she did.

[@Rye_Toast]

Your description of jousting is sarcastic and hilarious, I love your videos!

[@SyntaxError83]

I loooove your portrait readings! So happy to see this one!

[@jesm9776]

Thank you for another great video! I love Queen Elizabeth but gosh she was tempestuous.

[@AthenaisC]

I have a love/notlove relationship with Elizabeth I. I admire her sheer survival, given the history of her mother, her relationship with her half sister, etc, etc, etc. Her decision to remain unmarried is understandable, baffling and vexing all at once. As much as she's known, she's unknowable. I love listening to the smallest stories of her, even when I gnash my teeth at them. Ah, Gloriana.

[@debbylou5729]

Please, PLEASE tell me why you would chose marriage?

[@AthenaisC]

@@debbylou5729 .... so she could create her own heir. England was lucky the succession wasn't a hot mess after E1 passed.

[@debbylou5729]

@@AthenaisC um, she didn’t live with the ridiculous ‘ideas’ that we have to pretend to believe. She knew she couldn’t create an ‘heir’. I’d have to accept the fact that she had a better handle on things than you do

[@AthenaisC]

@Debby Lou is my opinion and my opinion only. Moreover, if I'm going to discuss history, I'm going to do so politely. Have a wonderful day.

[@EsmereldaPea]

@@debbylou5729 - pray tell, how could she KNOW she couldn't produce an heir? You seem quite absurdly confident in this.

[@joshubrook324]

Continued thanks for another interesting episode, I do find it fascinating when a piece of art is explained & interpreted within the context of its time, also I’ve used your discount code to subscribe to history hit tv - whilst there is lots of interesting content your programmes are just as well researched, varied and professionally delivered in my opinion. Happy subscriber x

[@janetclough2217]

GOOD MORNING

[@sandrasmith2912]

I just watched a video by History Hit about Elizabeth's portraits. I am enjoying your in depth explanation. Thank you.

[@Richard-zm6pt]

This is so interesting. I wonder why, if she was willing to commit bigamy, she wouldn't have married Henry. He was widowed. I think knowing more about her second husband might shed light on her decision. In these kinds of situation, I always ask who knew what. How was the bigamy exposed, by whom? Perhaps she did something impetuous, unconscious of the inevitable repercussions if it could not be hidden--not thinking. It implies to me that she and Henry were no longer lovers. What is also odd is she was not a young woman anymore. If I've calculated correctly, Henry was in his sixties. I'll have to go back and pay attention to dates. It's a puzzle.

[@tilseptember]

I think she married after he died. I also think that since marriage requires two people that maybe she would have married him but he knew he couldn’t marry her. Which leaves to wonder (a) who was her obscure husband, (b) was he refusing to annul the marriage- I assume they couldn’t divorce because then she couldn’t remarry? (C) Did Lee not marry her because it would anger Elizabeth too much but then (d) why not marry after she died? And (e) OMG did he pay for that scandalous epithet because wow! Here lies my mistress - it’s one thing to think it, another to carve it in stone! 😆

[@ameryek.9607]

Well, well, so Edward Vere, Earl of Oxford, was busy doing something besides writing Shakespeare's plays! 📚

[@cpodgorelec]

Wow! Hi Kat . Thank you for sharing your personal experience with dyslexia. Your delivery of your video’s are always of a high quality. I admire your work . Regards South Australia.

[@leannboyea1822]

Always interesting to learn about the symbolism in the portraits. Thank you#

[@kwells179]

I think the foray into bigamy and the massive fine was the FO to her many times of getting away with FA(not sure the conventions on swearing on this area of your SM so we'll go with the acronym FAFO here)and she misread the room's tolerance to actual illegal antics. Bet she was a hell of a laugh at parties though

[@ursulawhite2986]

I wonder if John Richardson commissioned that tombstone inscription for Anne?! Also, I am curious to know what became of the love child Anne had with DeVere (another intriguing character due to the rumors that he was the playwright and not Shakespeare).

[@kimberlyperrotis8962]

A woman in Anne Finch’s disgraced position wouldn’t have been considered suitable for receiving a Queen, she simply couldn’t have been there playing hostess for her lover. The Queen certainly wouldn’t have received her at court and no one else in society would receive her, perhaps not even her own family. She might have been Lee’s mistress in private, but she would be socially “dead”. The first affair and resulting illegitimate child ruined hers chances of being a part of “decent society” ever after. Even these days, I would feel weird about inviting someone over who was the lover of a friend who was still married to someone else. It doesn’t seem fair to the wife, if she was a friend, I just wouldn’t risk hurting her by considering it.

[@athenab9956]

would the Queen have gone to his home without having forgiven him previously...I think not. the portrait was, more or less, an honoring of that forgiveness by appealing to the Queens' ego/vanity.

[@MorningSong8]

I wonder how many portraits Elizabeth personally commissioned??

[@sayjay198080]

I wonder if Anne had one of those weird rare "divorces" that stated she and her first husband could live apart but were still married. (I forget the Latin term for it.) Thus she may have made an honest mistake in marrying the second man. Unless we find a document trail somewhere I doubt we'll know what happened there.

[@christinaclark9754]

I think some forgiveness had been offered that he was thanking her for. Also perhaps asking for complete forgiveness as well?

[@ShallowApple22]

from the sounds of it Anne & Mr Finchs marriage seems to have been one of possible obligation or necessity and they led separate lives throughout all of their marriage. also she fell pregnant with her other lovers but never had a child with him so that makes me wonder if the marriage was never consummated & that would at least give some way as to an explanation as to her marrying later in life. if she truly believed she was never married in God's eye. just a thought another great video thank you

[@--enyo--]

From what I gather from a lot of your videos and other KZbinrs, Elizabeth seemed a lot more willing to forgive the men in these relationships than the women.

[@diannelewis4974]

Wonderful thought-provoking subject!

[@margaretschembridalli5218]

interesting stories about interesting ladies. There were some badass girls who didn't care about conventions even back then.

[@lilly2b1]

Listening to you is just so wonderful. After a busy work day you are just bliss for my brain when it’s trying to unwind

[@SorayaOnTheTube]

I’m unsure as to the motivation behind this commission so I’m gonna say that I think he really liked her outfit and was like « babes we need to get a pic of this dress »

[@penneycason9269]

Fascinating story. The gown must have weighed a tonne. Gratitude to you lovely lady 🇦🇺

[@AnastaciaInCleveland]

The wheel farthingale (hoop) as well as the corset would have helped to distribute the weight to a tolerable level. Probably barely tolerable, but still... ~ Anastacia in Cleveland

[@morriganwitch]

Groovy Friday afternoon learning with Dr Kat . Thank you I missed out on a lot of education in some ways xxx

[@possumintheblossom]

There is so much i like about your work.Your steady and measured pace of narration, your nuanced expression and subtle modulation, and your personal thoughts scattered throughout, all help me digest and enjoy your well-crafted writing. Thank you!

[@Dice.cryptid]

Hello again, I hope you're having a wonderful day dr

[@lynnedelacy2841]

There are a few portraits like Henry’s where a ring is on a cord round the neck but yet held by finger or thumb Any idea of what the symbolism is?

[@livinglikelaura4282]

I also am curious about that - and the picture had rings in other places as well - very curious...

[@ReadingthePast]

It has been read as a symbol of a close relationship - friendship or love - in particular the power of that bond. His sleeves also have lovers’ knots on them. So perhaps a reference to the all-encompassing manner of his love?

[@tessat338]

I had the joy and privilege of seeing this painting a few weeks ago at the Met in NYC. "The Tudors: Art and Majesty in Renaissance England" is going on to the Cleveland Museum of Art, which is wonderful in and of itself, from February 26 to May 14, then on to Fine Arts Museums of San Francisco from June 24 until September 24. GO SEE IT IF YOU CAN!!!!!!!!!!

[@AnastaciaInCleveland]

Oh, I am definitely going to see it at the Cleveland Museum of Art. I can't wait! ~ Anastacia in Cleveland

[@freddiehansen7324]

Thank you! That was so interesting.

[@mariahunter9882]

Wonderful video thanks so much. It's a beautiful portrait and I was delighted to learn the history behind it.

[@janegardener1662]

Your videos are always well-researched and beautifully presented. Thank you!

[@bernadettecrawford3656]

Orcam is so useful thanks for info

[@ha_wait_what8801]

I just saw the tudor portiats last month as it was on display in the met in nyc. It's amazing to see them in person and to see the actual size of the paintings

[@AnastaciaInCleveland]

The exhibit is coming to the Cleveland Museum of Art next month. I can't wait! ~ Anastacia in Cleveland

[@gwynwellliver4489]

Groveling at the utmost.

[@Rachel-art-and-design]

Fascinating information. The painting is quite stunning but I find her body proportions are a bit odd, perhaps because of the dress itself or the painter enhanced her torso and her arms.

[@AnastaciaInCleveland]

The placement of the feet is very odd, too. The painter was not the draughtsman that Hans Holbein the Younger was! ~ Anastacia in Cleveland

[@jared1870]

I love art history, the symbolism, and what caused the art to be created. Thank you once again for an entertaining and informative piece of history.

[@laurenanderson395]

Have you ever been to iron bridge Victorian town , i went yesterday and it was absolutely incredible, if you haven’t been and ever get chance to it’s so worth it ☺️

[@hogwashmcturnip8930]

You should try the Black Country Living Museum. One of the sets of 'Peaky Blinders' amongst other things. You have the Dudley Canal Trust, who will take you into the Caverns and the Zoo and Castle (Once owned by the Dudleys and considered as a prison for Mary Queen of Scots) too. Ironbridge is good, but not That good! But then, I am biased. Lol

[@carolinewilloughby7952]

Very interesting! Thank you for your honesty in sharing your dyslexia and your tricks for working through the challenges.

[@nyckolaus]

Fascinating, as always.

[@vanessahardie1842]

Another great video

[@mikalbell8125]

Interesting video.

[@nicolelake5848]

Begging for forgiveness

[@bernadettecrawford3656]

Interesting thanks

[@kristenscott2271]

I loved this video.

[@michelelane4662]

Absolutely fascinating! Thank you so much for sharing this with us all. Much love and appreciation from California.❤️🍀🌈🙏🏻😇❣️

[@judldoodles]

😃

[@judldoodles]

Oh wow, I thought I was was too late to comment something for you to read. I really like your analysing paintings, History News, Interviews with Others reenactors, your biographies and I'd like to see more on sight stuff or collaborations if possible. Keep up your amazing work! I will watch all of it. I have also recently subscribed to history after dark (after seeing you post it on KZbin as well). Thank you so much

[@chazzyb8660]

I very much enjoyed this, as I live in Aylesbury and act as Sacristan/Verger at St Mary's here where Lady Elizabeth Lee's alabaster funerary monument is placed. Sadly we lost the two near life size effigies of their sons, Harry and John, both depicted as babies, one perhaps still-born, during the period after the first lock-down. Lady Elizabeth is depicted kneeling in piety, accompanied by her daughter (d.1583) also kneeling, who died some years before Elizabeth was buried here. Sorry for the background, but that is how I became interested in the subject. You may deliberately have missed out one key part of the story. In his 'Brief Lives', unpublished at the time of his death, John Aubrey, although writing perhaps half a century later, states, "Old Sir Harry Lee Knight of the Garter [1597, seven years after his retirement as Queen's champion], and was supposed brother of Queen Elizabeth. He ordered that all his family should be christened Harry's." Why not Anthony after his own father? Sir Harry's acknowledged father was Anthony Lee, of Quarrendon, and his mother Margaret Wyatt, daughter of Henry Wyatt one of King Henry's Privy Council. Margaret had been a lady -in-waiting to Anne Boleyn, one of whose father's many great manors lay in Aylesbury, in a square nearby to St Mary's now known as Kingsbury (since being confiscated by King Henry, along with much of the Boleyn family's fabulous landholding after the execution of that unfortunate lady). It is not inconceivable that Henry grew close to Margaret as a way to get in with Anne (and her family's fortune) and as she held out against his wooing. Margaret remained with Anne to the end, even accompanying her to the scaffold. So the name Henry could also logically have come from Margaret's father, but it is convenient, no? That the young Harry was farmed out to her brother the poet Sir Thomas, might have been also have been convenient, as their not entirely comfortable marriage got started? Sir Harry's survived in his Queen's good favour, and he remained her Master of the Royal Armories, and retained that post into the reign of James I, so perhaps being the Queen's brother ensured his survival? He certainly must have been good company to pull all this off, to host at a major visit by the Queen, to Ditchley, and supposedly refused a second, though King James did visit too. Certainly kindred spirits, they both knew the value of forgiveness, and the danger of casting stones in matters of legitimacy.

[@ReadingthePast]

I did choose to leave out those rumours - principally because I think the algorithm is going through a phase of preferring to push out videos of under 30mins, but also haven’t come across anything to indicate that Elizabeth heard these rumours. Just as I don’t think she heard them about Elizabeth and Henry Carey. It’s possible they were her half siblings and she knew it in every case. Maybe she loved Henry Lee because of his mother’s connection to hers? Or simply because of the talent he had to offer. Maybe I could do a video on all the rumoured illegitimate Tudors though?

[@chazzyb8660]

It's probably not true, but Aubrey was supposed to have spoken to people who knew and was only one generation removed. The friendship between their mothers must have counted for a lot, and Margaret would not exactly have been betraying her friend, who could refuse a King? Either way I think I would have liked to have met Sir Harry, he must have been great company.

[@tomfitzsimmons6535]

@@ReadingthePast Definitely do those, many of them. This one was fascinating. I'm going to see what else I can find about all of the characters, maybe write a song about Mr. Finch!

[@jakual339]

The question of why she got married again is... and intriguing one. Could she have been under some sort of impression that her previous marriage had been ended (via divorce or annulment)? That raises another question for me: What was the early Anglican church's relationship with divorce? There's this general narrative that "Henry VIII started his own church so he could get a divorce"... but as far as I can tell, he never actually divorced anyone (annulments all round for Hank). Did Henry's "Great Matter" have any impact on how the everyday nobility thought of their own marriages (and the legal obligations thereof)?

[@graham76man]

The face of Elizabeth on the portrait is clearly a mask pattern - sort of a template for artist to use. Some artists have problems drawing hands. They are one of the most tricky things to get right. This one certainly did. As with most pictures of that period artists used colours that have now changed. And if you look at the sea around England it is black. So the original colour might have been a bright blue. The Elizabethan world was brightly coloured. We think of it as garish today. The Sky itself was meant to be much brighter. Those things that look "pink" are not pink - but bright scarlet. The dress would have shone originally and the jewels and pearls too.

[@loganbump1685]

❤️❤️❤️

[@mags102755]

This was fascinating. Thank you Dr. Kat.

[@LeeLee-pk4ss]

Does Orcam make one with American pronunciations? I noticed that it gave you the British English for lieutenant, y'all have an "f" sound in it

[@p.l.g3190]

Perhaps this is cynical of me, but I think this is a fine example of the ages-old tradition we call today "sucking up." As Mychael O'Brien states, Queen Elizabeth's visit does seem to indicate she was in a forgiving mood, and having this portrait ready seems to be a very calculated (and possibly even sincere) attempted to get back into her good graces.

[@VianneWamann]

Fascinating! I love your videos. You make history interesting and relatable. ♥ Thank you so much.

[@donnagolden5189]

:)

[@Scorchedseraphina]

❤

[@kathrynbiglin3124]

I didn't know anything about this portrait, but wow - it's beautiful! I'd imagine this was made to try and soften HM up to not have a change of heart and punish them for their relationship. 🤷 Who knows?!

[@katherine4206]

I believe that the portrait was the hope to be forgiven, a bribe to be forgiven, and an attempt to beg forgiveness. Three time fail if I really have any opinion. I think Queen Elizabeth showed up and forgave Lee not Anne. Which cleared the way for their son. However, I dont think her forgiveness meant acceptance or condoning of the relationship. Its not like Elizabeth ever invited Anne back to court. 2nd Anne's 1st marriage was never disolved via divorce or annullment. So was she just brushed aside by court and those entities as not worthy or worth the effort to resolve her station in life other than being a kepted woman. Hence her appitate. (Sp?) On her grave. It is also likely Elizabeth, was there only for them to grovel, she gets out and about, takes alook at how things were going at Lees home. In other words keeping a finger on the pulse of that situation , granting her forgiveness but not condoning or accepting. Anne was a pawn. A pawn of her own making and those around her. Not happy with her arranged marriage ,she willing or ignorantly fell for who she desired Lee. Evidently, in accordance with times not very educated socially or strategically eduacated on court mechanisms. Maybe too ignorant to understand the ramifications of her actions. Her good luck that Lee loved her enough to keep her. And in the overall relationships of her life, maybe not know or understand what her true status marriage was, or arrogant enough to think since she didnt stay or possibly might of never consummated her actual first marriage it would not count. Hmmm... so what was Anne like??? Any writings or diaries of that time.

[@Kimbermoi]

Well done 🙂

[@michelefrancesconi5555]

Thanks for some very well researched and presented information regarding this time period. I'd like to know more about people within the nobility that simply did'nt conform to this royal 'circus' that the majority of them adhered too for obvious reasons. I'm not speaking about different religious belives or perhaps even opposing fractions, but instead of noble families that was indeed loyal subjects to the monarchy but choose to live and prosper outside of the the court. Certainly there must have been such families too?

[@jenniferwilson6412]

Love your videos. I love your delivery, intonation and sense of humour. I've always enjoyed history, but you make it even more interesting. Thank you!

[@Doeeyez118]

Thank you so much for feeding my immense thirst for historical knowledge. ❤

[@joelleross4988]

I definitely think this was some “ass kissing”. I 100% believe he knew what he was doing and she would not approve.

[@IntrepidFraidyCat]

I love these videos about portraits. This one has quite the backstory! 👍🏻❤😀

[@thanksforthejava]

Thank you for your research and sharing your knowledge with us. You have become part of my morning routine that I very much look forward to.