The Doc Robots- Fun or Frustrating?

[@KamisamanoOtaku]

If I haven't defended the _concept_ of the Doc Robots under one of your videos... well, I've done it many other places. XD I do think the execution was flawed, but as a general rule facing the previous 8 Robot Masters sounds like a great concept. Then again, like you, enjoy the rematch battles. Well, I _usually_ enjoy them and it'd feel _wrong_ if they weren't there. XD *Anyway, back to the Doc Robots.* Like ExploDjinn, I enjoy the rematches, working out the new Weaknesses (though don't always make sense), having a slide against them is huge (Mega Man should _always_ have the slide), and them having altered hit boxes is... well, sometimes frustrating, sometimes fun. There are two *huge* problems with the approach: 1) No rewards (save progress) for beating a Doc Robot 2) Two Doc Robots per stage. I realize that Mega Man 3 suffered *badly* from time crunch, and who knows if there was enough memory on the cartridge to do the concept justice, but let me spin a yarn about what could have made it amazing: *1) One Doc Robot Per Stage.* Pretty simple, but two in one makes for a long Stage that can be overwhelming, especially with few checkpoints. This necessitates 8 Stages, but that just means Doc Robot versions of hard Man, Magnet Man, Snake Man & Top Man Stages. *2) A Reward For Beating Them.* Extra Lives or E-Tanks ignore the fact that you're potentially burning through them for the Stages, or you're so good you don't need them. So how about _evolving_ the Weapons. I'd think that just tweaking values in the game, so you got more shots for the same Energy, or better damage, shouldn't eat through the memory. _Ideally,_ though, how about things like improving range or other added benefits? *3) Remix the Mega Man 2 Stages instead of the Mega Man 3 Stages.* While I do enjoy the MM3 remix Stages, it'd be even better if they were the Mega Man 2 Stages instead. This applies even if we *don't* make any of the other changes. Imagine the usual 2-per-Stage Doc Robot Stages being a weird combo of two Mega Man 2 Stages. *4) The Original Mega Man Robot Masters.* If we _do_ want two RMs per Stage, or even if it meant stuff _three_ of them into some Stages of the existing game. *Why?* Satisfaction. Completion. Right now, the Doc Robots feel kind of... incomplete. I mean, besides all the other ways. Since these aren't the actual RMs, there being Doc Robots of them shouldn't cause serious plot issues. Yeah, this would compound most of the other problems, but you'd know you'd *really* gone all out if Mega Man 3 let you (effectively) take on all the Robot Masters who existed by that point! *What about there being 6 and not 8?* Add two more Break Man battles. I mean, if this was about a _modern remake_ of Mega Man 3, I'd just include Time Man and Oil Man... *and* add one more Break Man Battle. Well, technically _several_ more, since I think anytime you fight Proto Man, he should be in his Break Man disguise, only being himself when he opens the path for you in Gemini Man's Stage. Otherwise, each Stage would be a stitched together amalgam of a Mega Man (original game) and Mega Man 2 Stage, with the double boss battle as we're used to (but maybe with *one* extra Check Point in front of the first RM).

[@ExploDjinn]

I kind of wonder about the reward thing. While I would love extra or improved weapons, since I also kind of view these as the precursor to the secondary fortress thing, it'd seem weird to get something here when all you get there is the ability to progress. Wouldn't say no to something extra, though. Regardless, I would kind of like to see Capcom try their hand at the Doc Robots again, to see what they could do with them under less pressure.

[@KamisamanoOtaku]

@@ExploDjinn I get what you're saying about a "reward"... but isn't the reason "double fortress" levels don't is they're pretending to be the final fortress stages? ;) I'd actually prefer they gave you something myself but, again, I understand. Maybe we'll find out if that modern. Mega Man 1 through 3 remake goes through?

[@AdamTheGameBoy]

I think they should bring back 4 classic robot masters in future games, especially if they don't do a double fortress fake out, but they should get a harder reimagining of their original level, be themselves and provide a weapon.

[@ExploDjinn]

Didn't really consider that, but yeah, had they remixed the original level instead, that might have gone over better.

[@CrustyFox87]

I think they’re an interesting idea but weren’t executed very well, but it’s understandable considering MM3 was rushed

[@ExploDjinn]

Another reason I wish Powered Up had kept going, since a remake could have sanded off some of the rough edges.

[@vincentbeton]

I remember hating them. They felt like way too big Hitboxes and in general seemed to do way more damage than everything you faced before, thus made for a huge difficulty spike right before the Wily Stages which not only are way easier, but also throw E-Tanks at you left and right all of a sudden. I always thought this to be a shame, since I really liked their Stages somehow

[@ExploDjinn]

I'd still say that the Yellow Devil Mk II's harder, but you get two E-Tanks right in front of him. Always feels really off when the big hurdle isn't endgame.

[@mrpro538]

positives: best level design in the game, with great platforming challenges negatives: worst weakness chain in the series (it makes NO SENSE), unforgiving checkpoints, 2 bosses in one stage is a bit too much, DOC QUICK/WOOD

[@ExploDjinn]

I think the stages would be a bit better if they weren't so stingy with the refills, but they do feel great when you get them down.

[@afterglow-podcast]

I like the doc robots, although I wish they were just using the Mega Man 2 boss sprites instead of the generic doc robot. Not sure if this is a storage issue (we get a single sprite for each of the 8) or a time to program it in issue. This would also have given them smaller hitboxes.

[@ExploDjinn]

I think they were meant to be a bit harder than their previous iterations. That said, a bigger hitbox seems like a cheap way to do it, so I hope that wasn't the intention.

[@jeffb.6642]

How exactly can you "skip" them in a run? Without using a password to get straight to Dr. Wily castle, that is.

[@ExploDjinn]

I think the idea is, you beat the eight regular bosses, then reset and input a code to go to Wily.

[@reversalmushroom]

As someone who loved the game from start to finish as a kid, it surprised me to find a lot of people apparently hate these. I love them because they're more game. I think people complaining about the level design are the kind of people who say that something being hard is the game being bad. I do dislike, though, that the robot masters aren't identical to how they were before. I dislike when things brought back have differences to how they were before because it means they got it wrong. It also just throws me off in this case because I'm used to the Mega Man 2 versions, but here, they don't move quite the same, and some of the damage values are different, and there's also the bigger hit box. It's like if the power went off in your house, and someone moved all your possessions 3 inches in different directions.

[@ExploDjinn]

I don't think hard games are fun, but difficulty spikes can be. I think lack of weapon energy leaving people high and dry, so that they have to SD also grate on people. Still on the side of liking them, though, and hey, fun analogy there.

[@Clark-q8z]

I don't hate the idea of the boss fights...I hated the stages, I think they are poorly designed and were clearly designed just to be difficult without any sort of balancing. I would never skip them but boy do those stages feel tedious.

[@ExploDjinn]

While I wouldn't call their stages bad, I definitely think that they ask for a little much for a standard playthrough.

[@737Igi69]

I mean the bosses itselft aren't that bad, but we really didn't need this part of the game, if the stages were new, sure, but replaying almost identical stages isn't something we need, the concept is good, that you need to use a new weakness, but all doc robots look the same, the could have given them at least new colors for each one, they did remade yellow devil and copy robot in the same game, and they are way better since they look different and have a lot of new attacks so I like that change

[@ExploDjinn]

The way I look at it, it's more game, so I'm glad that they're there. If they weren't, though, I might have thought the game was a little short, but probably wouldn't have felt like something was missing.

[@737Igi69]

@@ExploDjinn the game would still be longer than mega man 11, honestly the game is too long with those, the stages are such a turnoff because the difficulty rises sharply, the stages are harder than wily fortress, they took the concept and made it good in mm10, where there is the machine that copies robot masters from previous games, while only having 3 fights

[@mortarman83095]

I have a much bigger problem with their stages rather than the fights themselves.

[@superflashxmedia7706]

I feel like the doc robot should've worked if the levels they were in were actually better than just for the most part feeling like you are employing the stage for no reason

[@ExploDjinn]

3 was rushed, so my guess is that they had ideas for other levels, but not the time to implement them, so they had to make use of what they already had.

[@monopolyrubix1875]

Another great video.

[@ExploDjinn]

Thanks for the kind words!