The Doctor Denounces The Time Lords | The Trial of a Time Lord | Doctor Who

The Doctor calls the Time Lords corrupt as he stands trial against himself.
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[@The_Umpteenth_Doctor]

"Doctor, these unseemly outbursts..." "UNSEEMLY OUTBURSTS!?!?!?!?"

[@SantomPh]

he's testifying, let the man outburst as he pleases

[@davidmullen6011]

I do wonder whether this was Eric Saward's commentary on Baker's over-the-top approach to delivering any line.... the 'Rik Mayall' approach to playing the Doctor goes some way in dragging the series, and any story, to the levels of light-entertainment, whereas with an actual actor (like Peter Davison) you get a good dramatic delivery, and so he will pull you into the scene with him. With Baker on the other hand you get pure theatre, a theatrical performance rather than an acting one. Everything is dialled up to eleven and in Baker's case especially there is zero subtlety, either in the performance or the given scene... He manages to drag down every story he appeared in as a result.

[@davidmullen6011]

@@Reppter66 No I haven't, not Colin Baker that is, but it changes nothing about his lack of actual acting ability on the television series....

[@finnstewart4747]

@@davidmullen6011 Colin is one of the only actors on this planet to pull off the dramatic lines like he does. It doesn't seem overdone at all thanks to his delivery and character, for him it works.

[@youruncle2916]

@@davidmullen6011 whole heartedly disagree. This scene is gold. And colin baker in big finish proves that he would have been the best of the best if given better material.

[@williamnorton9547]

The best line of Colin Baker's tenure as the Doctor: Ten million years of absolute power! *THAT'S WHAT IT TAKES TO BE REALLY CORRUPT!!!!!*

[@1greatfinkerofrtimes381]

William Norton I agree with you there sir !!!

[@Jkirk3279]

The reason the Time Lords are so cruel, is they are determined nobody will be allowed to threaten their origins. I suspect a Starship of humans was swept back in time by the Great Attractor, and crashed on Gallifrey. Ever notice how "Irish" Gallifrey sounds? Exposure to the Time Vortex gradually changed them. Note: Time Lords can become Human. And become Time Lords again. That was the giant tip off.

[@1greatfinkerofrtimes381]

william Carr good theory

[@krozjr5009]

This single episode, perhaps even the first half, is Colin Baker’s best.

[@bunnrey]

What about "carrot juice, carrot juice, carrot juice..."

[@MLK-KAEFENTERPRISES]

Excellent performance by Colin Baker.

[@WC3POchannel10A]

His best moment as the Doctor in fact.

[@anthonyjordanmoviesandmore2470]

MLKKAEFEnterprises my fav dr

[@oderalon]

I can see Hartnell's Doctor there. Amazing. Until now I didn't care much about 6th. I feel that's starting to change.

[@tost6956]

Sergio, there is nothing of Hartnell in Colin Baker - I'm not saying that's bad or good, they're both great, I'm just saying they're very different

[@CinemaBiohazard]

Well, there's some hints in the costuming that harkens back to Hartnell circa Season 3: the stripped vest, the alien aspects of the personality that call back to Season 1 pre-Sensorites.....so it's not completely unfounded, but Colin takes it in new directions and he really does a good job with it. Especially when confronted with his darker self near the end of his first regenerative cycle.

[@matthwe3468]

Colin Baker: The right actor in the right show at the WRONG time. Always said that.

[@enclavehere.7995]

explain not that I'm disagreeing with you, but I genuinely don't understand, how was it the wrong time?

[@DJsaxby16]

@@enclavehere.7995 Not to put words in their mouth, but I think they mean it was at a time when Doctor Who was really going downhill in quality as far as stories and scripts and such, and yet Colin was still amazing in the role no matter how bad the stories were.

[@tomnorton4277]

Michael Grade was the true villain of Colin Baker's era. If he had simply left Doctor Who alone instead of doing everything in his power to cancel it, Colin would be one of the most celebrated Doctors in the history of the show. And Grade was also "friends" with Colin's ex-wife, so it wasn't just 2 professionals who don't see eye to eye, it was 2 men who had a personal distain for each other.

[@peterwilliamskelhorn6675]

@@tomnorton4277 well said. Glad we don't have to worry about anything like that with all the classic stories on DVD

[@Djarra]

The big finish stuff he’s done really hit home as to what we could have had were the budget not slashed (of course audio is a lot cheaper to produce so you can be more ambitious)

[@dawnguy842]

People who say Colin's Doctor never had good moments, show them this scene, probably his best scene as the Doctor

[@BigBrosFilms]

I used to hate the 6th doctor because I just saw his costume and never watched the episodes but trial of a timelord is a genuinely great season with impressive acting he really doesn't deserve all the hate he gets his acting is sooo good

[@MrDalek2150]

Madam Inquisitor: Doctor, these unseemly outbursts. Doctor: UNSEEMLY OUTBURSTS!?!?

[@commenterjosh2428]

*U N S E E M L Y O U T B U R S T S ?*

[@mushroomhead3619]

Madame Inquisitor: Doctor! I sentence you to OXO cubes!

[@FrostyMac]

This is the kind of stuff that makes me think 6 is HIGHLY underrated.

[@garethhayes3470]

Frosty Mac Colin Baker/6th Doctor was criminally underrated IMHO. It was hardly his fault that sometimes the scriptwriters during his tenure as The Doctor, wrote some complete & utter dreck

[@SpectrumStorms]

If you ask me, Colin Baker is the best actor to play The Doctor.

[@Popcultureguy3000]

@@SpectrumStorms If we're going by how he performs in the Big Finish audio dramas, I agree with you completely. "Arrangements for War" is one of the most well acted audio plays they have ever produced and the soliloquy Colin delivers near the end was just masterfully acted.

[@scottgodfrey7118]

no kidding. good actor, terrible scripts. jodie,too, give her sonething suitably epic and it sjoild be fun

[@nicp2344]

@@scottgodfrey7118 from US so I didn't watch it every week, nor do I have access to every single episode, but from what I have watched there's no way in my opinion that Colin Baker is the worst Dr, nit even close. I much rather prefer him than the 7th doctor, and my rankings would be 4,5,6 in that order when it comes to favorite doctors.

[@bryanharris5823]

Ah, Colin Baker. His dedication was unshakable; he just tore right into those stories with vigor. I can never tell when he was tired or bored or unsure of the script, and that's not something I can say about every actor to play the role.

[@DarthAzabrush]

Yeah even with Capaldi (the only nWho Doctor to approach his dedication to the part) you can tell when he wants to throttle the writers. Then again, for people slate his era's writers Colin never had to say "the Moon is an egg"

[@seamusburke639]

I'd say he was at least a little tired with the script. During this particular episode, he couldn't get a clear answer out of any of the writers or producers if the evidence presented was real or a forgery, so he didn't know how to react. So you watch Trial of a Time Lord, you see a lead actor and character just as lost as the audience.

[@Mysterywhiteboy78]

Pompous summary.

[@SomeRandomGuy908]

@@seamusburke639 but that works for the story, because the Doctor isn’t meant to know

[@vallaby2042]

Cough cough Tom Baker cough cough!!!

[@basedbattledroid3507]

I just love the Master's nonchalant reveal of the Valeyard's true identity.

[@andrewhuckle803]

I loved the way The Master just casually slipped in the comment about The Valeyard being The Doctor. Every fan watching must have thought did I just hear correctly ??? As for Colin Baker, an underrated Doctor.

[@geoffpulham5032]

If you can get hold of it, check out the novel Matrix. Pretty intense, but features the Valeyard and he's seriously evil!

[@RsMt1505]

He’s only the worst because of the turmoil in the show and the script editor sawood trying to sabotage Colin baker throughout his run.

[@MotorcycleCheetah]

Why the hell did they try to do that??

[@davidthedeaf]

So is the female doctor the start of the Valeyard?

[@davidthedeaf]

@@MotorcycleCheetah well, corruption, greed, hate, pretty much Colin Baker was great in this trial due to dealing with the very same arrogance and corruption on set with BBC

[@rakeere8761]

"Just a minute! Did you call him.. The Doctor?" That moment still gives me chills.

[@CaptApril123]

Just after the 13th regeneration.. I'll give you a moment.

[@ladyfoxwf1075]

@@CaptApril123 No he said between the 12th and 13th. Now we don't know if this includes metacrisis and war doctor, but likely not. Leaving the Valeyard to be after Capaldi...

[@CaptApril123]

@@ladyfoxwf1075 thank you for the correction.

[@CaptApril123]

@@ladyfoxwf1075 "12th and final"

[@ladyfoxwf1075]

@@CaptApril123 I heard that Sir, and yet Capaldi referred to himself as the 12th. The Master wouldn't know that 13th wasn't his final incarnation.

[@joem4585]

I always loved this idea, that the Time Lords are the biggest villains in Doctor Who. The new series really took this scene and ran with it.

[@jm5887]

It's an amazing idea and one that the big finish audios really capitalize on. One of the best touches was making the time lords be the ones who started the time war

[@nekusakura6748]

Robert Holmes deserves a lot of credit for developing the concept (especially with stories like this one and 'The Deadly Assassin'). It's a massive shame that he died during the production of 'Trial of a Time Lord'.

[@NiennaFan1]

Doctor: pulls off the impossible to save Gallifrey Time Lords: haha confession dial go brrr

[@thedoodler8552]

Hang on, he said "12th and final incarnation", not "12th and 13th"! That means the Valeyard could be anywhen in the Doctor's future! Plot hole solved.

[@tropican5554]

+The Doodler Read my newest comment, I explained the paradox

[@mrdoctorgilmore]

The Doodler it's the dream lord

[@No-hl4qm]

Galactic yo yo it isnt

[@mrdoctorgilmore]

The master: the Valeyard is imalgamation of the darker side of your nature, somewhere between your 12th and final incarnation (13th) The 11th (13th) doctor: everything dark inside you, gives it a voice, turns it against you. Sound pretty similar

[@No-hl4qm]

Galactic yo yo except the dream lord was created by psychic pollen that heated up by the TARDIS engines

[@sloucherdotorg7]

Anthony Ainley's mischievous smile as he reveals who the Valeyard is *chef's kiss*

[@crystalbird6774]

That was the best "WHAT" of all television history.

[@crystalbird6774]

True fact

[@BRAWGWill]

As if an "untrue fact" existed.

[@morningcoffeecat2271]

Any Old Biscuit "alternate" facts😅

[@sillygoose635]

Yes lol.

[@arthurthekyogre9155]

You forgot the 10th doctor's "wOoOoT"

[@ShootStyleZombie]

6th Doctor's speech pretty much predicts what the Time Lords are capable of with the Time War, especially seen in The End of Time and Night of the Doctor

[@ObviouslyKieran]

They still lost the Time War, even with all that power. That's how powerful the Daleks were at that point.

[@mekhimays9599]

@ObviouslyKieran no actually The Doctor destroy the daleks and The Time Lords so therefore he won the Time war

[@ObviouslyKieran]

@@mekhimays9599 In the original timeline, not Moffat's retconning garbage.

[@joe6go]

@@ObviouslyKieranuh.... The Doctor Causing The end of the timewar was always a thing in new who????? For fucks sake The episode Dalek with the 9th Doctor in RUSSELS era States that the doctor Burned the daleks and gallifrey "10 million ships on fire the entire dalek race wiped out in an instant, i saw it happen, I MADE it happen!" "Gone, they burned with you, the last great timewar, Everyone lost.."

[@ObviouslyKieran]

@@joe6go If the Time Lords had used "The Moment" they'd have died as well If Moffat didn't force the 3D painting.

[@russelltietjen4407]

I remember watching this for the first time and having to double take when The Doctor caught on to The Master casually calling The Valeyard "Doctor". Hell of a shocker even now!

[@ianshackleford]

I figured it out just by the horrible dress sense. But seriously, it is a nice idea, although I feel that it should have been developed further. The whole story arc seems rather rushed and confused, with the trial scenes (especially in "Mysterious Planet" and "Mindwarp") feeling like they were tacked on to pre-written episodes. Bunch of good ideas, but they don't "gel."

[@russelltietjen4407]

I think the Trial scenes get better as the season goes on. I feel like they keep interrupting Mysterious Planet, mesh perfectly with Mindwarp and are the best bits of Terror of the Vulvas (not saying much lol)

[@ianshackleford]

Mysterious Planet is actually a decent story when the Trial scenes are removed (I did it once. Turned out pretty well...) Not the best, but it doesn't deserve the hatred fans fling at it, nor does the majority of TOATL.

[@ianshackleford]

"Terror of the Vulvas" XD

[@Scyllax]

"Valliard"

[@librarian66]

I still remember watching this in the 1980s. Colin Baker was a marvelous Doctor who deserved more time with the role and better stories.

[@Companion92]

True. I'm so happy that Big Finish exists

[@swilliams937]

And a better wardrobe.

[@Dark_Tale_1985]

Starting to feel like that for 13. She is an amazing Doctor, but I really am not enjoying the writing. We've seen much better quality in the past. Now I am hearing rumors that this next season will be her last. It feels like she just got into the groove of things and already she is going to be out the door soon.

[@BlueBoxRevan]

Jodie Whitaker is apparently the Valeyard based on this episode. So that means, she's Doctor Evil

[@wobinich2009]

@@BlueBoxRevan wh, what? How is that the case?

[@hiccuphufflepuff176]

Not my idea, but I love this comparison: Missy is to the Master what the Valeyard is to the Doctor. It's as unthinkable for the Master to choose compassion as it is for the Doctor to choose cruelty, yet here both entities are.

[@vdesatch6273]

🤯

[@nordichope7301]

The Valeyard isn't an actual incarnation, he is an "amalgamation" which basically means "merge". The Master is literally saying the Valeyard is a merge of the Doctors dark sides, and was created some time after his 12th incarnation.

[@tomnorton4277]

@@nordichope7301 Sounds like the Dream Lord to me. Why did they only use him once? Toby Jones would have killed it as the Valeyard.

[@alexhenderson1312]

Yes! This! 😎🥳👍 My feeling exactly 😉And likewise the 'Narrator' (Dalton and Sumpter) is Rassilon's 'Valeyard' equivalent. 😇😎👍

[@LordMentor]

For Missy is The Luminat.

[@nedd.8479]

Say what you want about the 6th Doctor, but "That's what it takes to be really corrupt!" is one of the greatest moments in the show's history.

[@rrico168]

“I should have stayed HERE! The oldest civilization - decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core! Power-mad conspirators?? Daleks, Sontarans...Cybermen! They’re still in the NURSERY compared to us!!” Great stuff delivered perfectly by the much maligned and under-appreciated Colin Baker. 👍

[@tomnorton4277]

I don't think people had anything against Colin Baker himself. It was the stories they had a problem with. Granted, this was before my time so I can't speak from experience, but I've gotten the impression that people actually do like Colin Baker as the Doctor but are frustrated that he wasn't given better material.

[@spaceboomer564]

@@tomnorton4277 Honestly Trial of a Time Lord is a completely solid and underrated season. The prior stuff he'd been getting was spotty but the Trial arc and its individual stories do hold up wonderfully. Having a season focused on a specific direction really benefited the show.

[@DoctorWhoKage]

@@spaceboomer564 LMFAO omg! Same thing is going on with The Doctor's 13th incarnation right now! 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Strange how everything comes full circle!

[@birdrun4246]

I don't think any other doctor could have delivered that line quite like Colin does.

[@Freezer28528]

Interestingly, The Sontarans are actually the most advanced out of those 3 species. They have time travel via cosmic projection, Hallucinogenic tech, cloaking tech, Teleport pods and bloody nanotech. IMO the Sontarans should be considered the most powerful doctor who regular enemy, and not the bloody daleks.

[@brianbanville781]

RIP Michael Jayston, he owned this season. Shame he never came back on screen but his BIG Finish work was great.

[@nekusakura6748]

Especially in 'He Jests at Scars ' and 'The Last Adventure'.

[@changvasejarik62]

Personally I would have loved a story where the valeyard fights the lumiat for one of the greatest role reversals in Dr. Who. Also, If they ever get around to animating the big finish stories seeing the last adventure in motion would be greatness.

[@MeltedToast84]

Companion: take it easy, doc Doctor: *UNSEENLY OUTBURSTS?!!?*

[@Someguyhere111]

Master: "I agree-" Doctor: "SHUT UP! Don't listen to him, he's mad!" Master: "But I'm agreeing with you!"

[@thanhannguyen505]

Someguyhere111 poor master

[@MRCHACHAMAN13]

“My opponent is a liar and cannot be trusted”

[@lewisprice8616]

@@MRCHACHAMAN13 oh hes such a Turd sandwich.

[@DoctorWhoKage]

The Doctor is also a madman. Sometimes, The Doctor can be the biggest hypocrite.

[@rollochairbreaker230]

@@DoctorWhoKage but at least he's a madman with a box.

[@joeylamuel5828]

Colin Baker truly had potential. It's just the unfair circumstances against him were impossible to overcome. This performance proves the potential he had

[@iancuneo1820]

I agree. While I haven’t seen everything and he got off to a bumpy start in the twin dilemma choking peri the other stories of his I’ve seen were ok

[@nekusakura6748]

@iancuneo1820 Vengeance on Varos and Mind Warp were his best TV serials and he really shines in his Big Finish Audio Dramas.

[@acucumbergrowingoutofthegr2223]

colin bakers "WHAT" is everything, perfectly summarises everyone's feelings about the utter chaos that is having the same person be prosecutor and defender.

[@DarkXaven]

It annoys me that some people still think that the Valeyard is an actual incarnation of the Doctor, and are still trying to figure out when the Doctor will regenerate into the Valeyard, or if any of his existing incarnations are actually the Valeyard. The key word in the Master's reveal is "amalgamation", which is the process of combining or uniting multiple entities into one form. So, when I hear that the Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of the Doctor's nature from somewhere between his twelfth and final incarnations, I take it to mean that the Valeyard is an artificial creation, made from combining the darker sides of multiple incarnations of the Doctor, all from somewhere between the Doctor's twelfth and final incarnations.

[@fuppetti]

"even Gallifreyan law must acknowledge that the same person cannot be prosecutor and defendant" as the Doctor just said -- the Valeyard *is* the Doctor.

[@DarkXaven]

I never said the Valeyard wasn't the Doctor. He is the Doctor, just as the Dream Lord is also the Doctor. It doesn't mean that the Doctor is going to regenerate into the Dream Lord, right? I'm just saying that none of the Doctor's incarnations will be the man we see in the court room. We'll see traces of the Valeyard in each Doctor, but he will never actually regenerate into the Valeyard.

[@saquist]

Exactly right DarkXaven

[@fuppetti]

DarkXaven I agree. After listening to a Big Finish audio adventure, it was hinted that the Valeyard was some sort of dark weapon created from the Doctor's darkest thoughts.

[@TheWeepingDalek]

time lord victorious is the valeyard.

[@Ted_Curtis]

Valeyard, the Timelord Victorious

[@JohnnyLCob]

Its Time Lord

[@CMOT101]

No. The Valeyard is far more than that farce

[@Howyaduing]

The dreamlord

[@thebotieffect7016]

Technically not yet

[@oruncrest]

No... The Timelord VINDICTIVE!!!

[@IdgaradLyracant]

The statement is "Between your 12th and Final regeneration." Given the context, we would have to know ultimately his final actual death. Could be the 13th or 53rd regeneration. The Master's assessment is by his own admission an estimate. "Somewhere between" implies an estimate. The advantage is they can pop the Valeyard at any point they writes feel now at this point.

[@fjccommish]

No. When this was written, it was before bad writers and SJW/woke crap took over Doctor Who. This was Original Who, not crap New Who. In Original Who, a Time Lord had 13 incarnations. The Valeyard was from between the 12th and 13th, trying to extend his own life beyond the 13th incarnation. Many Time Lords went crazy in the 12th or 13th incarnation because their lives were coming to an end - no more regenerations.

[@spaceboomer564]

@@fjccommish ok but the Doctor broke the limit long before "wokeness" ever became a complaint about the show.

[@SudrianTales]

@@fjccommish if I recall the Master stole the body of Tremas to unnaturally extend his life and Rassilon was immortal so time Lord's naturally have 13 lives. But they can be extended.

[@fjccommish]

@@SudrianTales So where were all the other incarnations of the Doctor during the Time War?

[@SudrianTales]

@@fjccommish the Doctor was competent enough to only need one life during the Time War Edit: I just remembered Doctor 4 was the first shot in the time war when he went to the Daleks beginning

[@Artisan1979]

1:55 He’s running! He’s The doctor all right! LOL

[@rrico168]

Running through corridors, yet! 😆

[@CsRj2854]

The Valeyard - turns out to be Tenth Doctor becoming Time Lord Victorious

[@fbiuzz]

SERIOUSLY PEOPLE! The Master said "Amalgamation" which means "merge". Basically the Master said the Valeyard is the "Merge" of the the Doctor's Dark side from his twelfth and final incarnation. In essence, the Valeyard is a Time Clone compose of the Doctor's darkest moments in his life (like the incident in Water of Mars episode), he is not a future version of the Doctor so he isn't coming back.

[@MephProduction]

Well even the Moff wrote the doctor will go by the name the Valeyard in the future. So who knows what's going to happen. I doubt they'll address it but it would be cool.

[@fbiuzz]

MephProduction Personally I think Moff did that as kinda a reference to the classic series, as he is an old Doctor Who fan.

[@MephProduction]

Who knows what he has up his sleeves, although all his stories end in an anti-climax. After the 50th maybe it's best if he keeping this possible story line to someone else.

[@fbiuzz]

Malcolm Williams He is not a doctor from the future though. The Time Lords specifically created him artificially in order to frame the Doctor. Besides the official stories about the Doctor battling him between 6th and 7th says that he was turn into Jack the Ripper- which Madame Vastra ate.

[@fbiuzz]

Malcolm Williams Except there is no explanation on why the Doctor would create him in the first place.

[@adriansherlockdamondark.1094]

The Trial season has years ahead of its time. When it came out, it was criticized for the very things almost all dramas do these days, arcing a story line across the whole season to give it more complexity. This scene is where the whole thing really pays off with a shocking twist and some great acting.

[@adriansherlockdamondark.1094]

Fair enough.

[@chewie211171]

at 1.19, classic look of horror from Colin Baker when he realises who the Valeyard is, not to mention the stare he gets back in return. Great stuff! It's a pity that the BBC didn't have the foresight to allow Colin to 'find his feet' in the role of the Dr.

[@JSP_1147]

Rip Michael Jayston

[@geargrinder87]

Time Lords, funny hats, and the Master!

[@wedgeantillies66]

The beginning part of this scene is probably one of the best speeches colin baker ever gave as the 6th doctor.

[@WolfieRich1]

And this is why I love Colin's Doctor.

[@Nephalem2002]

Some part of me really wishes we got more OF the Valeyard.

[@itsWatty]

Colin Baker was a fantastic Doctor. So underrated.

[@Digscomics]

Personally, I was expecting that the Dreamlord would wind up being an early incarnation of the Valeyard. The way I see it, though, there are four ways the writers could get around it. 1. Don't count Metacrisis or War Doctors. Metacrisis is arguably not an incarnation of the Doctor in the traditional sense, War was kept so incredibly secret that not even in-universe flashbacks revealed his existence and even now, Capaldi is considered the Twelfth Doctor. So the Valeyard will occur after Twelve as planned. The Master didn't know about the new regeneration cycle, so he assumed Thirteen was the last. 2. While the current Doctor is the fourteenth incarnation (kinda), he's the first incarnation of the second regeneration cycle - which, again, the Master didn't know about. So what he thought were the twelfth and thirteenth incarnations were in fact the twenty-fifth and twenty-sixth. 3. The Master is messing with the Doctor's head. He says that the Valeyard comes somewhere between the Doctor's twelfth and final incarnation - but he doesn't specify that the thirteenth incarnation is the final one. He's either hoping to make the Twelfth Doctor paranoid or the Thirteenth complacent. 4. Mumble mumble time war cracks in the universe history rewritten timey wimey.

[@TheDharmaRain]

Digscomics what do mean second regentation cycle, when & how did that start?

[@Digscomics]

Eika san In 'The Time of the Doctor' it was revealed that Eleven was his last regeneration, and Clara convinced the Time Lords to give him a new cycle.

[@firstnamelastname9794]

+Digscomics The Master might have known about the War Doctor, unless he fled before the Eighth regenerated. However, he almost certainly doesn't know about the Tenth's first "regeneration". He (well, she now) probably assumes that Twelveth is the final one, or isn't really sure anymore. This might explain why the Master here doesn't know exactly how far along the Doctor's timeline the Valeyard first appeared. The Valeyard wanted very much to keep his true identity a secret, so I doubt he woud have told the Master if they happened to meet beforehand (the Master might have sensed who he was, but he still wouldn't know where or when he came from). The only way the Master would have found out was from Missy warning him, probablyright about when the Valeyard goes back to that time.

[@FLAME4564]

+Firstname Lastname Infact Your also forgetting that theres an aditional goal on the Valyard's mind. Freedom of indipendance as a seperate endity. As he stated The Valeyards ultimate goal was the destruction of the doctor and unlimited access to the matrix. Mabey perhaps since then Gaining access to this matrix also presented him with an aditional Direct way of controll of it. To Seize Control of the Tardis.

[@dayzmelttogether]

+Digscomics right because he used 2 faces as tennant and the war doctor was in there as the eigth or ninth, so matt smitth was actually 13, which means... because of the confusion of hiding the war doctor and regenerating twice as tennant its reasonable to assume that they figured after his 12th regen he is the valeyard.. wich now is completely possible, i say they make a season where the doctor is evil , and maybe the master and a couple companions battle him that would be so bad ass

[@1000guy1]

Season 23 is really underrated it was often voted as Colin baker’s worst season but I noticed that a lot people are starting to really appreciate this season now which I happy as I see it as Colin baker’s best season

[@TimeForTeletubbiesFAN]

What a great plot twist. Shame Robert Holmes didn’t write episode 2

[@buxeessingh2571]

You can read the original script from he and Eric Saward. It's called "Time, Inc." Look for the Time Vent.

[@andrewhall6479]

Sadly, he passed away before he could.

[@xj900uk]

There was no actual plot even submitted by Robert Holmes for episode 2, and even episode 1 was finished off by Pip and Jan Baker when he became too ill to continue. However, all the dialogue, letters and bouncing of ideas between Robert Holmes and Eric Saward has fortunately been preserved, so you can at least garner some of the ideas and suggestions he was working towards in part 2, including an earth-shattering cliffhanger trapping both the Valyard and the DOctor inside the Matrix, and the High Council of the TImelords content to leave them there and preserve the 'status quo'. (the Master leaves taking Glitz and Mel with him, commenting on the two-faced hypocracy of the Time Lords and at least he is an honest villian and meglomaniac)

[@drxshock6957]

"The Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your Twelfth and final incarnation." Just a minute! Due to The War Doctor, the ORIGINAL Tenth Doctor is now considered the Eleventh incarnation, and in Stolen Earth and Journeys End he regenerated but kept the same face (making him the TWELFTH incarnation). In The Waters Of Mars the Doctor temporarily became The Time Lord Victorious, essentially what the Valeyard could have been. Perhaps the Valeyard was created (by god knows who) during this time.

[@lichcoin6144]

God knows Who...gotta love unintended puns!

[@keelanbarron928]

Umm, does that stolen earth bit really count? I don't really think so.

[@eonoflegend2985]

Yes, it does. The "11th doctor" could only have been the actual 13th if that counted.

[@keelanbarron928]

@@eonoflegend2985 ehh, but didn't he say that it was incarnation and not regeneration? (And since the changing of the face is a incarnation and not just a regeneration, therefore that would mean that the "12th" would be the 13th!)

[@eonoflegend2985]

Eh honestly I don't even want to talk about regeneration after whatever the hell series 11 was but I think it's safe to say that 11 was definitely the 13th incarnation (12th regeneration) of his run. The doctors before him were the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, war, 9th, and 10th. That would leave a gap if 11 was the 11th regeneration as he would then not be the last in the cycle. That is why the metacrysis doctor counts as a regeneration. Just to fill in what would have been a plothole

[@xj900uk]

Probably Colin Baker's greatest scene in the TV show, and also (and somewhat sadly) the final episode in which Robert Holmes was able to make a contribution, and it definitely shows - the writing here was far, far better than most of what Colin Baker had to deal with during his tenure as the Doctor.

[@emoney9650]

I sure wish Colin Baker would have got to do more episodes. I really enjoyed his performances.

[@finnstewart4747]

That is why we have Big Finish.

[@nekusakura6748]

@@finnstewart4747 And thank goodness for it.

[@DarkHypernova]

I think when the 10th Doctor saw the meta-crisis Doctor doom all the daleks and Davros, he recognised the darkness in him and knew he could become the Valeyard (also since he was formed EXACTLY between his twelfth and final incarnations). Therefore he send him away with Rose in an effort to make him learn to have less anger in him and prevent him to become the Valeyard.

[@nickcandy1874]

Exactly what I thought. Thank you.

[@CMOT101]

No. The Valeyard is a Timelord construction. Weren't you watching?

[@DarthAzabrush]

@@CMOT101 The Doctor herself has multiple contradictory origin stories so why not the Valeyard? Doctor Who is kind of the point of the show. Personally I like the theory of the Metacrisis Doctor driven mad by life with the stain on humanity that is the Tyler family using salvaged Time Lord tech to blast himself back into the real universe only to end up an anomalous Time Lord child who's bio-data is an exact match for the Doctor (see Trial of the Valeyard)

[@fjccommish]

No. Don't try to shoe horn crap New Who with Classic Who.

[@alexhenderson1312]

The Valeyard is NOT the Meta-Crisis Doctor! 🤔

[@jumpcutfilms1958]

I feel like Colin Baker was starting to come into his own as the Doctor here but it unfortunately got cut short

[@drillstevejr2290]

The 6th doctor and 10th/14th doctor are my two favourites

[@that-british-whovian]

What’s notable about this scene is it unintentionally became a turning point for the series as for the most part from here the Timelords shifted. They were no longer these grey figures that were more good than evil even when they first appeared in “the war games” they were still on the good side of the equation, but from here on, they’re played more villain than hero, even in audios they’re more than not conspiring in some way in audios which feature 7 onwards

[@giottocook6512]

Wow... That is a perfect remarque against the modern BBC

[@tomnorton4277]

I wonder if this had anything to do with them firing Colin Baker? We all know the BBC is corrupt now - Jimmy Savile alone is all the proof we need - but what if, like Ecclestone, Baker was ahead of the curve? Ecclestone's Doctor: "If I hadn't said I wouldn't play their game, the BBC would have kept this outrage carefully buried as presumably they have for several decades!"

[@redjirachi1]

The more time passes, the truer this is

[@nintenbetas]

Can't Blame The Master for Venting his Rage with them.

[@einezcrespo2107]

RIP Michael Jayston.

[@kennethbrynleyjohnsweet4252]

The valeyard...he who waits and certainly enough to make a celestial toymaker run away in terror

[@FrankNFurter1000]

I will not hear one bad word said about Colin's Doctor. 6 is superb and carries himself like a hero.

[@tomnorton4277]

That's something that's always impressed me because I know Colin hated his costume, yet he swaggered around with all the confidence in the world. I would never have guessed that he hated wearing it just by watching him. Peter Capaldi would never have managed to pull that off. He didn't even look comfortable in the toned down costume he was given in his first season, so if he was wearing Colin's costume, he would have been completely upstaged by it.

[@benmagilsen919]

The final great monologue written by the great Robert Holmes, and youtube recommends this as comedy. How dare you, youtube. How dare you.

[@1greatfinkerofrtimes381]

I love this scene , I think it was clever writing " somewhere between the 12th and final incarnation " , to think when this was written .This was the 6th Doctor and instead of implying that the Dr. would only have 12 regenerations which would have given them another 6 incarnations , ............ by saying " somewhere between the 12th and FINAL" this leaves the door open for more incarnations than just 12 . The Trial of a Timelord rocks !!!

[@DonnieTNJ]

Colin Baker didn't get a fair shake imo, if he had the kind of writing during Tom Baker's time he would done great things.

[@ABMultimediaDesigner]

RIP Tony Selby

[@cheesy2440]

“Unseemly outbursts?” The doctor said calmly

[@JayMeDee]

I love that The Valeyard is still a mystery in Who lore. I'd love more breadcrumbs, but to know there's a version of the Doctor out there that's evil after Capaldi's is awesome.

[@tomnorton4277]

Capaldi felt like the Valeyard in his first season. Problem is, he wasn't supposed to.

[@loonytunescrazy]

You should listen to the big finsih cds @@tomnorton4277

[@Mike_Ka-Chowski]

Colin Baker is really awesome in this. I would've really loved if there were more of him during his tenure

[@ChristopherZavalaVlogs]

I wonder if this ties in with the Timeless Child? If the High Council of the Time Lords had something to with erasing the Doctor's past lives and the Valeyard planned it out after he found out the truth

[@Thomasmemoryscentral]

Uh from what most fans have found with The Timeless Child, they dont want to acknowledge the mess that is. Any non timeless child material that exposes the corrupt timelords?

[@WolfieRich1]

And people never give 6 a chance.

[@sebastianmoreno5814]

Given the Timeless Child revelation, the 6th incarnation wasn't wrong to denounce the Time Lords like this.

[@lornithogeek7049]

From the beginning the time lord were corrupted!

[@dubliam8064]

Who's here after Fugitive of the Judoon

[@SantiHRod]

Dubliam I was looking for this commentary.

[@deathtoll5000x]

YO!

[@davidbentley8848]

Yep Here !!

[@jaxmanx]

My fave doc. Hated how majority of the public hated him and by the critics. This is raw and one of the best performances ever underrated actor

[@ShadowSonic2]

I'm not sure that the Valeyard is supposed to be some inevitable regeneration of the Doctor. The Master said he was an amalgamation of all the Doctor's darkness. This could mean that he'd be created sometime in the future by having some Regeneration energy (his distilled soul darkness) breaking off from him and becoming it's own entity. Like how the Meta-Crisis Doctor was created.

[@Aelfgeft]

This is, in my opinion, the true peak of Doctor Who as a series in terms of being a sci-fi series. The combined factors of Colin Baker's tremendous acting, the almost amazing metaphor of Time Lord corruption to BBC corruption in regards to both the cancellation of the series at the time, as well as in hindsight our knowledge now of what Jimmy Savile and who knows how many others were committing with the BBC's protection, the incredible twist of the Doctor not only finding the Master on his side, but that his true enemy is himself...and all of this batted away by the bureaucratic Inquisitor who reminds the audience just how priggish and cold the Time Lords are in light of all these utter bombshells of information blend together to provide possibly the greatest moment of drama and suspense in the series. I can't watch this clip enough times to not get chills during it. Overwhelmingly phenomenal even considering the fact that the writers changed hands during this time.

[@freebretth]

Excellent analysis

[@TheWhovinerd-1963]

Very underrated scene here as the Doctor basically calls the high council out for their own blinding hubris and hypocrisy. The 6th doctor deserves a better reputation than he receives imo, sure he has a lot of unfulfilling stories, but he also has great ones such as attack of the Cybermen and Revelation of the Daleks. Xx

[@JoelandtheBots]

I love how people in the comments are taking the line "between your 12th and final regenerations" literally to mean that he can no longer be a threat since we're past that point. The writers gave themselves an out knowing that the Doctor would reach that number of regenerations sooner rather than later, so now The Valeyard can pop up at any time in the Doctor's life since we don't really know when the final regeneration will be, if ever.

[@johnwhittington2998]

13th Doctor: WHY WOULD THEY LIE!

[@Caredroia]

Trust writer Robert Holmes to come up with something so brilliantly awesome. "Trial" was a 14-part experimental misstep, but it did give us the cracking final "The Ultimate Foe", the idea that the Doctor would survive to the end of his regenerations (and the series in Holmes mind) and some wonderful pieces of sparkling dialogue e.g Valeyard to the Master "You really are a second rate-adversary" which is funny as it was Holmes who first wrote for the master in Terror of the Autons!

[@chewie211171]

The Valeyard is somewhere between the Dr's 12th and final regeneration? Even back in the 80s, this was leaving the door open to the future. Since Capaldi's Dr (the 12th) has been given a new life/regeneration cycle for 'saving' Gallifrey in the 50th anniversary show, the idea of the Valeyard coming back as a villian sometime in the future could indeed happen; so much the better.

[@Monadshavenowindows]

Colin was exceptional as an actor. It's quite unfair that he was sacked, since they gave him mostly horrible stories. He remains one of my favorite Doctors.

[@saloz9483]

I loved this arc and its still interesting that the doctor can one day turn to the valeyard as we have seen him slip up in the modern doc episodes and the show still acknowledges it. I also love the speech he gives about the time lords which still hold up.

[@Trev359]

And the Time Lords are still in the nursery compared to Chibnall, only two years it took him.

[@matthewcorcoran2891]

Delboy359 Best comment,. You sir deserve more likes 👍

[@rojansfandoms]

Oh damn

[@Christophiel]

He who fights dragons too long becomes one himself... How long has the Doctor been fighting evil?!?

[@therestorationofdrwho1865]

What a brilliant performance. One underrated doctor. Love this.

[@TwilightLink77]

If the Valeyard returns he should be the main antagonist for the 10th Anniversary of Modern Doctor Who with 10th Doctor, Rose or Martha or Donna, 11th Doctor, Amy, Rory, 12th Doctor, and Clara confronting him.

[@thedw6688]

Yes!!! The bickering and being in control with Rory in the middle of it as usual.

[@sidneywoolf-hoyle3102]

In my humble opinion Time of the Doctor should have been scrapped and replaced with a final showdown between the Doctor and the Valeyard. That would have been amazing.

[@FLAME4564]

+Sidney Woolf-Hoyle Or even better. A showdown between Doctor and Valeyard. The ultimate prize in this showdown. Complete Control of the Tardis aswell as Changing the Tardis into the Valeyards colors. From blue to a creepy Black with Red Windows.

[@AndereundIch]

+FLAME4564 Or even better. The Original. Think about it with the informations we are having. The Valeyard could be the Doctor, who wants to return to Gallifrey, to make shure that the Doctor could find Gallifrey again. And the valeyard did what he did cause he knew that the Doctor would stopp him. How could he not know that the doctor would stop him, when he is a futur version of the doctor.

[@DoodleThis]

“The remainder of the Doctor’s regenerations” Well that canon got quickly thrown out the TARDIS

[@ChrisVillagomez]

The Valeyard is the Time Lord Victorious, but from a future we don't know yet

[@SaavMagician]

Valeyard was like "Cya bitches" lmaooooo

[@KneelB4SodsLaw]

Come to think of it, the Valeyard does look like a mix between Matt Smith and Peter Capaldi.

[@ButaneBoss]

Well done BBC. By releasing this video, you have made this comment section the central hub for every bogus and downright stupid Valeyard theory. Why do people talk so much about this one character? They end up accusing anything of being the Valeyard: 11th Doctor, 12th Doctor, War Doctor, Meta-Crisis Doctor, Missy, Dream Lord, Jackie Tyler, Clara's Christmas turkey, Mickey Smith's eyelash, or anything that looks at them funny..

[@drxshock6957]

Jackie Tyler? *Clara's Christmas Turkey?!* *MICKEY SMITH'S EYELASH?!* I can't stop laughing!

[@scartale6570]

Jackie Tyler, Clara's Christmas turkey and Mickey Smith's eyelash are about as likely to be the Valeyard as I am

[@Popcultureguy3000]

And most of them ignore the amazing possible origins of the Valeyard that were introduced in the Big Finish audio dramas (specifically in "The Trial of the Valeyard" and in the Sixth Doctor's real regeneration story "The Last Adventure") and from the books written during the wilderness years.

[@analothor]

I really want the valyard to be claras Christmas turkey now

[@WiloPolis03]

It's the Abzorbaloff

[@DalekTheSupreme]

This scene is without a doubt Colin Baker's best moment in Doctor Who: "They're still in the nursery compared to us! Ten million years of absolute power! That's what it takes to be really corrupt!"

[@Izanami037]

Okay, Chibnall is taking a lot of inspiration from this. I mean so far some of the similarities: The Master, A “Doctor”/Valeyard, A renamed Earth, the Timelords hiding a secret (different secrets and expected but still).

[@Trev359]

Ironic when in 1986 he was on national TV criticising this series for, among other things, using previous ideas.

[@Izanami037]

Delboy359 Let me just add the Matrix to the list.

[@ghostface_tardis]

This scene is so perfect I love the sixth doctor’s dialogue

[@krozjr5009]

Controversial opinion time: Season 23 was one of the best seasons in the show’s history. Everything makes sense, and every actor (even Langford) is on point. And it has some good cliffhangers (eg. Vervoids Ep.4 “The charge must now be genocide.”)

[@spaceboomer564]

It really shouldn't be controversial, it was a solid season and story arc, especially in how it cemented the Time Lords as being corrupted and The Doctor's increasing capacity for darkness.

[@DeltaDubs89]

The master admits some evidence is tampered with and fake yet they still plan to run the trial? Timelords truly are corrupt.

[@luckyswine]

The whole interference of the Sisterhood on Karn throws the Doctor's regeneration cycle into a cocked hat.

[@thereyvan]

And so does whatever the hell Chibnall just did.

[@thereyvan]

Seriously, tho. They should’ve just had Eight be the Doctor who fought in the Time War. He should’ve appeared in The Day Of The Doctor and gotten to regenerate at the end.

[@spaceboomer564]

It wasn't the Sisterhood of Karn because they didn't extend The Doctor's regeneration cycle. They just saved the Eighth Doctor who had died before he could start regenerating as normal ( something that would also happen in the alternate future of "Turn Left" to the Tenth ). Ultimately it was extended/unrestricted by the Time Lords themselves when they realized they kinda need The Doctor alive to keep bailing them out.

[@billthewhovian]

I would like some of the other Doctors have a go at this speech a few classic doctors have done new speeches now it's about time the new doctors do some of the classic speeches. Other speeches I'd like to see done is the goodbye to Susan speech, the "Our lives are different to everybody else's and that's the amazing thing nobody in the universe can do what we're doing!" the Do I have the right? speech, the "You can't change history not one line!" Speech or line really the 7th Doctor's final speech from Survival and they are just the ones off the top of my head. Feel free to add to these and which Doctor other than the one who said it would you like to see do that speech as their Doctor and ones where companions respond during the speech like Sarah in the Do I have the right speech? Which companion would you like doing that role? Doesn't have to be the replacements Doctor's companion either.

[@Karls_Clips]

The valeyard is an "amalgamation" of the doctors "darkest impulses" of somewhere between the "12th and final regeneration" Now as someone has stated an amalgamation is a creation separate from the doctor, now remember in heaven sent they use a teleport on the doctor who used it in the episode to effectively clone himself to get out. The timelords now have a perfectly preserved recreation of the doctor between his "12th and last regeneration" They don't specify when his last generation is, its just implied his 12th is the last one. So it could be the 13th which was peter.

[@rebeccamcdermott5064]

Scenes like this show what a fantastic Doctor Colin was. I loved him and will forever love him. Just a damn shame he got screwed with by the fat cats then unceremoniously dumped before being given a real chance at being one of the best. He deserved so much better.

[@bohenmerchant1]

they treated Christopher Eccleston and Peter Capaldi the same way

[@tomnorton4277]

@@bohenmerchant1 Peter Capaldi wasn't a great Doctor anyway. Too insecure and sociopathic. Christopher Ecclestone on the other hand was masterful.

[@mrhypnagogia]

The sets: crap. The costumes: crap. The disguises: crap (but endearing and iconic). All production is cheap af but the acting. God damn the acting will make you believe these guys are 14 billion years in the future arguing about their god like super powers.

[@yukiegrandmotherofakito7547]

This was the 80s man

[@ArrowProds]

Yeah this was the 80s, everything was cheap except the acting, I don't know what anyone expects. And the BBC was trying to cheapen Doctor Who to the point of extinction (and they succeeded). But that opening model shot to the series was hands down, one of the creepiest and best series openings ever.

[@rnw2739]

You forgot the music. The music in 80s classic Who was legendary.

[@xj900uk]

It also helps that for once Colin Baker actually had a decent script to work with in this episode (sadly, Robert Holmes' final contribution to the programme, and even then it was finished off by Pip and Jan Baker)

[@rnw2739]

Nothing wrong with any of it. A million times better than the crap that is shown under the same name today.

[@jardon8636]

colin baker was my doctor, poor colin from start to finish was treated badly, in a era that the BBC did their level best to underfund,change the schedules or ignore,cancell or delete the show and its fans for good...., he was hired, pushed around and then fired* surely he could have been treated better by JNT and the BBC, had some say about his own costume and storylines, his recent *big finish audio work, and his missing series,finally complete on audio**is great, he never really had the time on TV screen, to shine... given a clown's outfit and crazy redicolous storylines and then cancelled, returned with a **trial as the show was on trial , in colin's own words its was very very risky*, fans turned off in big numbers for its complicated storyline arc, and in 80's era of other shows, even the fans were not happy with the new crap theme music**... i was not as a kid lol :P

[@blakemcconville7308]

What I would give for the original season 23, more Colin Baker and to keep this season for later on in his tenure.....

[@testchannelpleaseignore2452]

wHy WoUlD tHeY lIe, WhY wOuLd ThEy Do ThAt

[@andygjata]

Anybody else thinking the Doctor we met on this week's episode (Ruth) is the Valeyard?

[@thetwelfthdoctor9892]

@Xtra Spice Mikey she could have simply stolen one on Gallifrey and made it look like a police box ( since the Doctor like that form, the Valeyard does too).