The dog training spectrum

It's taken me a really long time to make this video. I love this industry and I love training dogs. But I'm really concerned about where it's heading and I hope you can help me and many many others continue to improve the lives of dogs.

[@RicardoDelHagen]

It really pisses me off how that little tuft of hair keeps pointing left-

[@shepherds.pie.youtube]

Hahaha he pinned this comment

[@Padfoot934]

I find labels in training so frustrating - every time someone asks 'what kind of trainer I am', I try and explain I'm a 'train the dog in front of you' trainer.

[@Blackwatercowboy1]

Great video. Great breakdown of views. I’ve been training for a minute and got started using ecollars and tools. I allowed pressure to steer me away from recommending tools for too long of time. I recommend any and every tool now depending on the scenario and clients comfort level. Tools I think give the owners a source of confidence and makes transitioning back to them so much easier. I have respect for you putting this video out there. I think it’s huge for the community. Thanks.

[@stephanieobrien8989]

I love a graph! You’re speaking my language!

[@ProfNomis]

Wonderfully communicated! I’m fairly new to the dog training world, but quickly became aware of the two extreme sides of the spectrum you talk about. They don’t help anyone, and they certainly don’t help the dogs, which is all I care about. I’m 1000% in agreement with you, and fall pretty much exactly where you are in the graph. I believe in focusing on the dog that’s in front of me and their specific requirements. If getting the best result for the dog means using tools, then I’ll use tools. If they’re not needed, then I won’t use them. Great video, I wish every single one of those trainers in the extreme silos had the open mindedness to hear your message.

[@bodytechfitmama9396]

Thank you thank you for posting this. I’ve shared it on my FB with the comment below. I’ve never been a person for Labels - from fashion designers to dog training methods. Balanced Trainer, Positive only, Force Free, Compulsion …. In a perfect world where all dogs, humans can cohabit without any structure and theres no animal abuse, no need for behaviour modification etc sounds good - but that’s not the world we live in - sort of sounds like heaven- which is NOT this world we live in 2022z If you really care about dog training and the future of where it’s going and that you’re not feeling you’ve been correctly represented, then this is a MUST SEE! YESSS! Dog Training - it’s all about who shouts the loudest (those who are unskilled in dog behaviour) and it’s generally those as Pat draws are on the margins. As a student of dog training I’m all for learning every type of method effectively to have in my tool box should the need arise. Every dog is different and some will need different tools than others. Personally, I love being an apprentice under Stefan and also love learning from afar from the likes of Larry Krohn, Bart Bellon, Michael Ellis, Pat Stuart, Glen Cook. I’m totally on board with Pat Stuart The Canine Paradigm message and it’s time to get rid of the labels, work together cohesively and put the dog, it’s owner and the future of how the dog will live in todays world first. We’re not in heaven yet!

[@zelina6595]

This is exactly what I try to explain to people that are willing to listen. Yes I use tools, but not always. Do I use tools with my own dog, yes. Is my own dog dependent on the tools, no. What you have explained / done in this video is a straight forward way of how I also view the industry and I hope that many people see this and are able / willing to understand it

[@boerboeldaddy9535]

Are you talking dog training or multinational geo politics? Well said. Talk less, train more, train what is in front of you to the best of your ability, but continue to evolve and do better than you did last month. I suggest those of us in the middle claim the title of Purely Unbalanced. All of my ex's would agree.

[@LouiseYates]

Love it. To me LIMA is that middle place. Always training with kindness, and willing to escalate IF it is right for the dog in front of you.

[@shepherds.pie.youtube]

Excellent, well thought out! I wish I could share this with every person on the planet.

[@professionaldogtrainer968]

Very, very well said. There are a lot of us who feel this way. Just like you, I often feel discouraged at the direction that dog training seems to be heading. The polarity is not serving anybody, and the loud and vociferous arguments have done nothing to elevate our work. I've taken a big step back from dog trainer forums because instead of feeling like I was potentially learning from them, I found myself turned off to something I've loved for so many years. Now I'm just happy to train dogs and help my clients, and I waste little to no time or attention on the petty back and forth that is so prevalent in our profession. Brave of you to post this though. There are a lot of "villagers with pitchforks" out there, looking to pounce on anyone who doesn't fall lock step in line with their POV.

[@sandybrown4551]

Well said Patrick.

[@_shakawkaw]

Amazing video, very well said, love all your content

[@csc-photo]

Beautifully stated and clearly presented. And I believe spot-on. Thanks for this helpful, interesting content! 👏🏻

[@freelancedogtraining4770]

Glad I found this! Im working on a video and was going to include a training spectrum analogy too, I'll shoot credit your way if I include it but thank you for making this! You summed up the concept perfectly

[@BuddhatheRockstar]

I avoided becoming a DT because of exactly what you just explained. When I managed a shelter 8 years ago I was spending my time trying to help dogs get adopted and keeping dog trainers from arguing over what was best. I have gone back and forth volunteering with difficult dogs in shelters because the people who "push the pens" don't value dog trainers. I don't see myself as DT I see myself as someone trying to manage behavior enough to help the dog be more adoptable. I'm actually at a point where I want to give up because now that I am a professional trainer organizations are still not listening. I'm in the middle group I believe all dogs are individuals and they all learn differently. Therefore, I use different tools depending on the dog. However, had I not been shown by my Mentor how to use all tools properly and she not explained what was happening psychologically I probably would not be as open-minded. I'm fortunate and grateful I had that opportunity.

[@codymerrells1155]

Really well said! I'm a fairly new dog trainer as a profession and I've just recently found your podcast and really loving it I'm way behind almost on episode 100 LOL and I can't wait to hear the rest and up my game substantially.

[@mutchumbo]

Quite often I've seen trainers who claim that good trainers don't need tools are in fact tools themselves.

[@NancyGagliardiLittle]

I can't love this more!! Thank you for being brave and posting this.

[@briangregory5327]

Thanks for having the guts to put it out! Great stuff!

[@MatthewRyder]

Sick intro and background

[@laurenhoyle4936]

Bravo Pat. Beautifully explained and I hope this takes off xoxoxo

[@klaytonrobb6393]

I am in the middle. Thanks for the clarification/explanation

[@sharnw1044]

Well said, absolutely agree! Thank you

[@GK-mv1vu]

What a great explanation !

[@ibexcanine5300]

Thanks for putting this out.. Great articulation as always Pat !

[@kirstyreid4021]

Thank you for this. So well articulated.

[@benperkins5637]

👏👏👏👏 Well said Pat!!

[@teresaj6374]

This is absolutely brilliant Pat, love the way your mind works. Thank you 🙏🏼

[@K9GuyHTX]

Very well said, Pat. Love it!

[@noochspooches25]

This is awesome bro! Very well said 👏

[@slopsec2358]

I've never met a dog I couldn't help. People on the other hand... I guess you have to define 'tools', because in my opinion it's impossible to train any animal without tools, whether those tools are prong or e-collars, halters, treats, touch, voice, or even a posture... they're all tools! Good video, thanks.

[@kat505hi]

From what I interpreted, his use of the word "tool" meant anything added to reduce behavior (+P/adversives) such as prong collars, shock collars, choke chains, hitting, scary voice, etc. (I'm not saying those are all the tools everyone on that side use). The real use of the word "tool" would mean anything to create behavior change. So, your use is correct, but not in the way he was using it. I think he was trying to find a way to differentiate the two sides to make the graph more clear. It's more +P tools vs +R tools, but nobody wants to call themselves a punishment trainer.

[@mariaturner1843]

very well said!

[@jonwilliams4546]

Only a sith deals in absolutes

[@celtic.canines.dogtraining]

Bravo Pat...as always, well said and dropping truth bombs. Cohesion is key and poor representation is such a detriment to those who are doing great work but do not shout about it and just grind away helping dogs.

[@nikkifeeney2900]

Thank you for posting this Pat, i have also shared it on my facebook, the UK has followed suit and is now considering the ban :( maybe if we can make them see the madness of it here other countries will think differently and reconsider. If only dog training was that black and white.

[@patmunro3531]

Not banned in Scotland!!

[@cryptid_k9]

Hear, hear!

[@patriotcanineservices3648]

Speaking absolute gospel

[@robkirkwood8800]

Fucking excellent!

[@anna_L_N]

Humble dog tracing enthusiast and R+ due to lack of confidence/mentors mostly but I know my pet dog is better trained than some militant R+ social media trainers. *cough* Logan *cough*

[@dbishop7836]

Thank-you for staying after this! I am a 66 year old pet parent training enthusiast. I have a 7 year old pit mix that I started training at age 5. After 3 purely positive trainers I found my current balanced trainer who taught me numerous thing including the use of a starmark collar. Dibs is now a certified therapy dog that assists me in my role as a school counselor. I love doing dog sports, Dibs is not into it, so Enzo entered my life at approximately 6months, 83% American Pitt Bull. Loves to train, good food and toy drive and at 101/2 months is extremely strong, enter the starmark collar which helps me to be able to keep myself safe and him to be able to navigate the world he needs to interact with to have his best life. The goal as with Dibs is not to use the starmark forever but without the responsible use of this tool my dogs and I would not be able to be leading our best lives together. Sorry for the long post but this is very close to my heart.

[@bunnyultima1875]

Food, treats, toys. Those are still all tools. Not every dog is the same, and there are dogs that will always require a different approach. Some are food motivated, some are lead motivated, some are both, some are even neither. Good trainers will understand that concept, and great trainers will identify what will work best for a dog and use it. I've seen a lot of instances where a "dog trainer" tells an owner that their dog is hopeless, to put it down or lock it away from the public, and the reason why wasn't because the dog couldn't be trained, but because the trainer didn't know how to train the dog with their skillset and the tools (be it food/pos. reinf or dominance/leads/prongs.) that they locked themselves to. And that's not fair to the dog or the owner. When someone hardlocks themselves to one side of a concept or understanding, they are unreasonably limiting their potential to accomplish something successfully. And in this instance it's often at the expense of an animal's mental and emotional wellbeing, because improper training is as caustic to a dog as proper training is effective. It's good to see a trainer recognizing that and putting the word out.

[@socialdogcoach]

A common misleading claim is that the use of aversive tools increases aggression. This statement is typically made by people who don't use such tools. But, if you've never used aversives, how do you know?!! 😆 A truly humane, effective trainer knows when to use a carrot and when to use a stick. The use of anger and aggression to bully a dog *does* increase aggression. Kindness, gentleness, and empathy are critical to building a good working relationship with any animal... So carrots are used in abundance. 💕🥕🥕🥕 Good balanced trainers and good force free trainers are more alike than they are different.

[@jameshamilton3598]

Only a Sith deals in absolutes

[@grannyhorsetraining878]

This same thing happens in the horse world !

[@socialdogacademy]

🎤 drop !!!

[@patrickdaniels6829]

I find the industry in a horrible mess, its people based instead of dog based and horribly commercialised. People have become transfixed by science and dismiss everything that science hasn't researched or simply cant be studied.

[@redwolfmedia1276]

I'd look at it this way, the "unnecessary " arguments or pressure can be "negative","toxic". Or you can look at it like a bunch of passionate people that are in it for different reasons or multiple reasons and view it differently. Ofcourse everyone thinks their "right". It doesn't matter what matters is people in these situations tend to work better and harder if they feel like their going to be judged. Ofcourse keep log video or otherwise of everything and the proof is in the end result. Who is pushing out on a consistent basis highly trained dogs! Be honest,show complaints or mistakes and we'll flesh out which ways are producing the best results 😉 👌. There's more then one way to skin a cat is all I know.

[@AdamSlater09]

I agree with everything you've said so far except the way you've constructed your graph. This shows the bulk of people at the margins being escape trainers or +R which I don't think is what you're trying to say.

[@alxhiding]

please don't take this the wrong way Pat, but this is a naive discussion as i see it. this problem has nothing to do with dog training at all, and everything to do with human behaviour & ideology. no matter what you want to discuss in this space or how, nobody is changing anything this way. because the root problem is not nested in this space. if you were to parse dog trainers by their politics/philosophy/ideology/psychological temperament; positive only = left, balanced = right. I would bet millions that the data would mirror your graph more or less precisely. and both want to fight for the middle, because the middle is where our advantage is (to use a common phrase to us folk). the beauty of dog training, is that we get to fuck with the levers of the nature of behaviour and see the outcomes in real time and make productive change, cutting through all the senseless bullshit that prevents us doing it for humanity. or at least, thats the beauty of it to me anyway.

[@buchananamber]

Interesting. The presentation would be clearer, however, if it were presented in terms of a Venn diagram.

[@socialdogacademy]

🤔

[@gerryglauser2394]

While he speaks of extremes, Balanced is actually the entire spectrum, depending on who you speak to. But, that's just a label. Of course the extremes have the loudest voice, as they are the most united. The very wide middle is full of of many trainers always arguing against each other. For the middle, he claims those people REALLY understand dog training, operant conditioning, and ethology. Really? Where the hell are they? Many people I've found in the "middle" have simply embraced methods and techniques that are reasonable and effective. But that doesn't mean they actually understand it, nor do they need to, in many cases. In fact, simply bringing up actual details from textbooks is usually enough for them to ether walk away or start arguing. However, from an actual scientific viewpoint, his spectrum is nonsense. Yes, it does describe the popular spectrum in dog trainers. But, once you leave out the extremes none of the points are much better than any others. And this entire discussion about "tools" is entirely nonsense. You will always use appropriate tools in appropriate ways. And, actually defining what THAT means is the meat of the discussion, but is not given here! For instance, prong collars. For a large dog who had only known a prong collar, I used one for a week before removing it. Not using it would have made the transition longer and harder for the dog. Leaving it on longer was not a question, as it was no longer needed. With people training their dogs, I add a 2nd collar and leash, showing them how to adjust their usage to transition over a few weeks. That's a case where both the dog and the person have to learn the change. ------- Tools, we have tools! What's a tool? You are, together with any and everything you say and do. Your real goal is effective communication and compassionate teaching. Any focus on "tools" is paying more attention to the pen you're writing with, than the words you're putting down on paper.