The Downfall of Six Flags Explained

The differences between Six Flags and Cedar Fair Explained
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[@KDG860]

I would like to see salim leave the partnership. His implementations at Six Flags were terrible. Also, hospitality needs to be the focus, not websites.

[@yesorlando05]

Carowinds is our home park. The only reason Carowinds had the attendance dip in mid Summer was because of the work being done on Fury. Since it opened after the repairs, attendance shot back up. I was there regularly and really saw it. The weekends here in the Fall have been very crowded.

[@PastTime777]

Great, but they still haven't made it into the top 20 for attendance. The 20th spot is Six Flags Great America at 2.675 million. Hershey is 19th at 3.012 million. You'd think Carowinds would move up with the #1 coaster in the land but it hasn't happened yet. Hershey is a dying area with the population decreasing. Carowinds has more people, so you'd think they would crack the top 20 in attendance.

[@praetorian1877]

Is Carowinds a year round park or seasonal?

[@billybob33366]

With the only CF park in Canada, its difficult to imagine that CW would fall by the wayside in terms of investments. All those surveys they sent us during the seasons was with the understanding that the merger would happen. Why would they send us 3 renderings only to flop in the end? The most visited seasonal theme park in North America requires investments. Some of the largest companies spend the largest amounts on Marketing and advertising, which is the equivalent of rides in this case. Let's think optimism here and know that CW is in a region that places it in the top of their tier.

[@robcav8747]

There already was talk about kicking La Ronde to the curb; esp with money being tight I could see 6 Flags being USA only. I am hopeful this never happens but not impossible

[@michaezell4607]

Are you talking about that rumored wing coaster? The one with a rendering of the interior of the station which CLEARLY had king's dominion written down the righthand side?

[@MCQ-fq6bv]

Actually you forgot Michael Spanos was CEO after Jim Reid Anderson and right before Selim Bassoul

[@stephanlambert6207]

You are my primary source for theme park news and updates because you are quick and are in-depth with your videos. Not many do so thank you.

[@AmusementInsiders]

Awe thank you 😅

[@stephanlambert6207]

@@AmusementInsidersI like to watch Coaster Studios but they don’t go as in depth as you do. They pay attention to a more broadened aspect of the amusement industry. You are a lot more specific. I would compare you more to Theme Park Stop with their Epic Universe updates.

[@Paolo8772]

I'm not an economist but it looks like good news overall; Six flags has the name recognition but Cedar Fair not only has the better parks it is the more successful majority shareholder. Thanks for posting!

[@praetorian1877]

This is so strange! Coming from the SoCal area, the thought of Magic Mountain and Knott’s Berry Farm being one company is just bizarre to me. I’m now currently in the Six Flags Over Texas area. I don’t really know what to think of this at the moment. I know Cedar Fair always wanted a footprint in Texas and now they do. Crazy!!

[@Feuerfr3i]

There’s a downfall of Cedar Fair too. When they bought the Paramount parks. They went into debt so bad, they didn’t add anything to parks for a while. Likewise, when Six Flags bought premier parks. Big debt. With a recession looming. It makes perfect sense to merge.

[@themeparkreconnoiter9787]

With the Cedar Fair and Six Flags Merger, they should or they actually could revive Kings Entertainment (KECO) for the EX-Paramount Parks so they can bring back the Hanna-Barbera Characters while the Six Flags brand parks still will keep the Looney Tunes Characters since Six Flags has already been licensed by Warner Brothers, and now merging with Cedar Fair, Cedar Flags will have 3 different theme Park banners with 3 or 4 different licensed characters, The Peanuts Hanna-Barbera, Looney Tunes and The DC Characters for example. Kings Island and The Other Kings (KECO) Parks will still be will still be a Cedar Flags Park but kept under the Kings (KECO) its just like SeaWorld owning the Busch Gardens parks. Busch Gardens is a SeaWorld Park but kept under the Busch banner

[@Cat3465]

Friends at SFOG have stated that management at the park has been really bad lately. With Kid Flash's grand oppening being described of it being "very chaotic" or should I say "pandemonium" and the recent Goliath incident that took place 3 minutes before closing, I hope that it will be resolved with this merger taking place.

[@just-dashin]

I just went to SFOG today. Goliath was closed until right before we left the park.

[@itsmeevan027]

Guys - this is very easy to figure out. 1) Amusement parks are capital intensive business. Capital is extremely expensive without much relief in sight. 2) In order to make money, parks need consumers to be willing to spend discretionary income. Thisnis especially true of regional parks like CF and SF as opposed to Disney and Universal. Imflation and other evonomic concerns make the future look dark. 100% agree the potential of future bankruptcy was 100% part of this decision.

[@socal_haunts_and_parks]

It took me decades and a trip from SoCal to Cedar Point to appreciate Knotts being a Cedar Fair park. While I do like six flags how can I ever deal with paying my Knotts Scary Farm haunt number 51 money to Six Flags Corporation? Wow emotions.

[@ianmortimer5325]

I do believe the new Six Flags will offer the point program for those who had a season pass and will offer the free fast lane and other programs that do not offer the in-average season pass but only in a high and high premium season pass.

[@CaptureKing247]

One could argue that Cedar Fair should have accepted the offer from Sea World last year

[@clairefunnell8481]

Ive heard that Six Flags has been in financial trouble for a long time now. If it helps all the parks be better somehow then im ok with it. ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@TonyKimtheamusementparkfan]

It seems that this benefits Cedar Fair more and I’m actually ok with that. We all know Cedar Fair is much much better at managing their parks and have better overall business tactics. And I’m glad that Zimmerman is still remaining as the main man in charge. Despite what you think of them, Dick Kinzel, Matt Ouimet, and Richard Zimmerman are definitely much better people to run amusement parks than the people that Six Flags chose for CEO positions.

[@MCQ-fq6bv]

CEDAR FAIR PARKS ARE GOING TO GET LESS THAN THEY ARE USED TO..THIS 100% FAVORS SIX FLAGS PARKS..... Capex is going to go to SF parks to bring them up to CF parks level and do the food, beverage, restaurant, etc...enhancements that Cedar Fair parks have been doing for a decade and continue to do up to 2023. CF parks produce 1.82B in revenue in FY2022, they are essentially matching that in 2023 thru Q3. SF parks produced 1.35B in FY2022(a disaster that is 2018 levels) and are matching that in FY2023 thru Q3 and are actually down on net income. CF has spent a lot more on Capex yearly than SF parks, while having less parks overall and more revenue, thus why they are nicer . Even if they spend to bring SF parks up to CF parks level , it is questionable if the core SF park patron will actually be willing to pay more after it's done. They have trained for decades for cheap prices and accept the lower quality food/restaurants, aesthetics, infrastructure that comes with being the bargain chain...Selim's Walmart and teenage daycare center patrons. Cedar Fair parks which were humming along with their very successful Seasons of Fun strategy, food/restaurant and bevergae upgrades and themed areas emphasis are now taking on a sinking ship of SF which never recovered from the pandemic and are at 2018 revenue levels. have a clueless CEO, and no actual coherent strategy/plan. CF has essentially taken on a possible anchor. Also, one of the things great about Cf is that they do not have a lot parks, thus with the higher revenue than SF they could allocate higher Capex among fewer parks. One of SF's many problems is they have too many parks. They have had lower revenue and thus Capex than CF, while needing to spread it among 16 dry parks and 11 water parks. All these crap producing SF parks and lease parks need to try to get out of the leases early and the ones they own sold. 42 combined dry and water parks is too many mouths to feed. .....SF parks could never getting a giga or even a hyper since bankruptcy b/c of SF's poor finances, now they possibly can b/c CF Parks are producing a lot more money that can subsidize SF parks.

[@ianmortimer5325]

The La Ronde attendance went down because Quebec had a wildfire and had extremely poor air quality. Also, please do the video about the La Ronde as no one is talking about it at all.

[@restlessbohemian26]

So, according to your podcast just last night - new capitol spending will be divided into regions and CW is the "star" of it's region. I would imagine this new grouping potentially is a great thing for your park. If it had been lumped into the Midwest category it would have to compete with Great America, King's Island and Cedar Point for new capitol spending funds.

[@billybob33366]

You're correct in what you're saying. This puts CW in the top of its region and should be getting most funding

[@rbassassin99]

but apperently even before the merge i talk to someone of the sacre people for haun this yr. Apperently CW made all of their costume this year. I think CF is putting money at CW. But with this merge i not sure if they will do the same at other parks. A lot money went into some of the haunt events at CF which like made their own custome, own desgin etc.

[@agustdan6599]

I'm excited about the new American Heartland theme park going to Oklahoma. I've never had a reason to visit Oklahoma, but I will soon. There are lots of interesting things happening in the amusement park industry. 🎠🎡🎢

[@roryblake7311]

Thanks! K-Mart and Sears? vs Disney and Universal?

[@dannydicesare]

I think Salim needs to go. And it would be really awesome if there was a SoCal bundle pass for Knott’s and Magic Mountain. Getting rid of the “Six Flags” in the names of the parks would be great too. So it’s just called “Great Adventure” or “Fiesta Texas” like how CF parks are. Would also love for them to beautify parks like Magic Mountain. Add some grass under the parking lot coasters, Move the park entrance 🤞, and stop with slapping a generic IP on a ride and calling it a day. The next few years should be very interesting.

[@kennethlorino9214]

while a lot of the parks were closed during the pandemic, six flags st louis was opened with a reservation system. st. louis made money while the others were closed

[@MCQ-fq6bv]

Knots attendance was down b/c LA got twice as much rain in the first half of the year, than LA normally gets in a full year. Q# the weather was good and things picked up. Without Knotts coming thru there is no way CF Q3 2023 revenue was in 1M dollars of their record in Q3 2022 of 843M

[@stormchaser419]

Could somebody explain to me how SFMM and SFGadV utilize solar panels in daily operations? Just curious seeing all those solar panels. Thanks!

[@michaezell4607]

Without the merger this guy's gonna be out of a job really soon. I just hope they'll let KD still get that rumored wing coaster in 25 though.

[@MW_13]

Love your vids and agree with almost everything you said. Only thing I’d disagree with is WOF and Wonderland investment takes. With WOF, cedar fair is slowly prepping them to be a Carowinds Jr. with the investments we’ve seen especially infrastructure. Combine that with the fact that Kansas City is one of the most increasingly populating cities, and the World Cup being in Kansas City in 2026 means Six Fairs (lol) is likely gonna continue to put some decent investments into that park. With Wonderland, similarly, now the company is gonna have so much more money and resources to be able to go all in on a park that is wayyyy underutilized and under-invested in, which I honestly think is a big reason Wonderland has been struggling (too many people and not enough big investments - thanks paramount lol) Love the vids bro keep up the grind 💪💪

[@dirtthunder1638]

I would think Frontier in OKC would be on the chopping block as far as investment way before WOF in KC.

[@deletedaccountdnd]

When do they vote? Anyone know?

[@robcav8747]

5:40 - your 1998 cutoff for 6 Flags is odd seeing as Paramount owned / ran Wonderland at that time. So we would be at least 4 CEOs in same time frame. A better comparison would be how many CEO 6 Flags had after 2006. I also will point out that Wonderland has been lucky so far, as Cedar Fair utterly buried large parks (Cayuga remember them?) in this same time period and also gave resources to some parks (the winners) while absolutely neglecting others (the losers). 6 Flags has been far less biased in terms of money spent. 10:00 Dorney (and La Ronde) are both likely on chopping block (they need cash). I am thinking Wonderland gets gutted with no new upgrades for a while now

[@wrestlingandamusementparkl7789]

I can see La Ronde more then Dorney getting sold off

[@elevatoralarmcoasterandarc1214]

We must save this company!

[@exploreohio1735]

It's saved technically but many sixflags customers that claim one to be their homepark might be upset because of pricing. Since Cedarfair CEO is running things Sixflags isn't a budget company anymore. Good news is atleast those parks won't be dirty anymore.

[@MCQ-fq6bv]

Talking about "rough waves" the bottom line matters most....Wonderland net income in FY 2023 thru Q3 is up 32M thru Q3 vs thru Q3 2022, Wonderland revenue is down just 6M thru Q3, however expenses are down a ton, so the nice net income pop.

[@donnie2832]

Shouldn’t they try to get a Florida park?

[@FameyFamous]

Please give examples of how Salim will bring technology to the merged company.

[@exploreohio1735]

I would give him 2 years before being ask to leave the company. He proved he doesn't belong in that industry.

[@slumpdogyt]

I think LaRonda will be dumped, and I think SFA land will be sold, and they will send whats still good to KIngs Dominion and double down on KD instead of SFA and KD. SFA has never had good attendance, i know maryland folks who rather drive to KD over SFA when SFA is a lot closer.

[@thefivepines]

well done research!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so glad i have you so i dont have to hyper fixate for HOURS

[@michaelstevens8007]

I think the amusement industry is shifting to the middle portions of the nation. Right now, if you live in Kentucky or Nebraska, you're planning vacations that will take you to the east or west coast. But if there were a park a few hundred miles away, you'd go there. It's cheaper. We are seeing that kind of investment in the middle of the nation right now (in Oklahoma and Iowa, and Universal is even building something in Texas). Cedar Fair dominates the east coast. Six Flags dominates the west coast and southern border. Neither chains have much of a presence in the middle of the nation. If parks develop there, they will draw crowds away from people who would normally travel east or west. I think both chains understand that, without combining resources, they were going to continue to lose business to those parks that exist or are in development in the middle of the nation. They either combine their resources to compete, or they will go extinct. On their own, they can't compete with what is apparently actually being built in Oklahoma with American Dream. They can't compete with the Herschend parks. They may not even be able to compete with Lost Islands in Iowa. They had no choice. On their own, they are screwed in ten years. Together, they may still be screwed, but they have a stronger chance of surviving. Worlds of Fun? You think it may be disregarded, but I think it will become a darling of the chain. It wouldn't take much to make it a major attraction smack dab in the middle of the nation. And it's in the middle of the nation where the dollars are pouring.

[@wrestlingandamusementparkl7789]

The park I k curious about in this is Six flags St. Louis and what happen to them. But I agree. It will be interesting what the herchend and sea world parks do to

[@MCQ-fq6bv]

Yes, Six Flags was struggling they produced back to back poor years, lost in the merger talk is that Sf's Q3 report was pretty poor. They in FY2022 regressed to 2018 revenue and income levels and FY 2023 YTD is matching that. revenue is up slightly, but net income is actually worse by 3M in Q3. They are repeated the same disaster results from FY2022 in 2023. They have no plan/strategy and a inept CEO, that knows nothing about the industry. He has made blatant unforced errors since arriving..ie...the constant changing season pass plans, the massive price increases that caused a revolt and them losing 7.4M in attendance in 2022 and pass base cut by 60% in a year. They activist investors had the knives out and one group presented a plan to sell the land under all their parks for the cash infusion. That would be a long term disaster having to lease back all the land. Other signs of their tenuous financials is they were unable to bring back the dividend cut during the pandemic, which Cedar Fair brought theirs back at $1.20/yr. SF Capex was very light at just 112M in FY2022, in contrast Cedar Fair's was 183M, 2023 SF Capex thru Q3 is 109M, Cedar Fair's is 169M In contrast. Cedar Fair produced a record FY2022 and are matching it pretty well in 2023//ie for Q3 FY2022 was a record of 843M in revenue, Q3 2023 they only dropped by 1M. despite the constant talk of the consumer softening. Net income wise Q3 2022 was a record of 333M, however that was bolstered by a 1 time vent of claiming 155M from the CGA land sale. take that out the actually ops net income was 178M, in Q3 2023 net income was 215M, If Cedar Fair really thought SF was in danger of bankruptcy they should have let them flounder for another year and they would have gotten a better merger deal tilted in their favor or let them flounder longer and just picked off some parks as they got desperate. There are a bunch of SF parks that are pretty poor that are not really worth having in this merger. The SF parks really worth having with the most potential are the southern parks of SFOG, SFOT, SFFT which Cedar Fair wanted more geographic diversity and also Great America, Great Adventure and Magic Mountain have potential if run correctly. The rest of the SF chain is forgettable with little significant potential to reach CF level .

[@dgx9994]

What about St.Louis?

[@AdamSmith-gs2dv]

I agree, I think St Louis is in more danger than World's of Fun

[@D5002]

Sad day for Cedar Fair.

[@nancyfarkas3592]

Why? They are joining together to save money. That is a good thing!

[@m.hreels9822]

How is this the down fall tho. They just made one of the most successful mergers in theme park history

[@seanmce8132]

Cedar Fair is in control of the merger, they are just keeping the six flags name because it has better brand recognition.

[@animal5085]

@@seanmce8132 Its 51/49. Could easy go the other way in a matter of time.

[@seanmce8132]

@@animal5085 sure anything can happen at anytime, but cedar fair's Ceo is currently in charge and their history isn't nearly as troubled as Six Flag's.

[@exploreohio1735]

​@animal5085 your talking about a company that got so desperate that they sold their flagship Park and gave away the gate(practically free) that lead to bankruptcy. They always been in trouble and they knew they couldn't run operations anymore. If it ever changes then all the parks will fail.

[@comenting3207]

This aged REALLY BAD

[@AmusementInsiders]

lol it’s a new video.. wdym

[@JonTalksEverythingPodcast]

six flags has the bigger name and brand over cedar fairs by far

[@AmusementInsiders]

You say that but Cedar Fair brings in about same revenue with almost half the parks

[@JonTalksEverythingPodcast]

@@AmusementInsiders six flags is the more well know name and why do u think there using six flags as the company name

[@AmusementInsiders]

@@JonTalksEverythingPodcast oh yeah 100% interms of marketing they’re the more well known name but not the better run brand

[@nancyfarkas3592]

@@AmusementInsidersthat your opinion. If that were true then they would not have done this and taken on the six flags name

[@JonTalksEverythingPodcast]

@@AmusementInsiders yes i agree

[@Starlit43]

What about the downfall on Canada’s wonderland?

[@nancyfarkas3592]

The guy just said it’s not going anywhere. Pay attention

[@andrewedgcumbe8627]

I think we need a merge because i want cedar fair to really consider intiman again. we don't need to keep seeing b and m after b and m we need something for thril seekers at Canada's Wonderland that will wow the socks off of the thrill seekers and we need different wild coasters and stuff like that not just family stuff.

[@MCQ-fq6bv]

CF doesn't need Intamin

[@user-xy1bj6rj6c]

Let’s hope this merge is not bad news for Canada‘s Wonderland because Canada does not wanna lose that park. I don’t wanna lose a park it’s my home park we miss it quite dearly so let’s hope this Murch does Canada’s Wonderland good not bad. Like I said before I’m from Windsor Ontario, I take a long drive every summer they go to Canada‘s Wonderland. I don’t know why Six Flags was not interested in Canada’s Wonderland, when paramount studios owned it at the time.

[@AmusementInsiders]

we wont lose Canada's Wonderland don't worry

[@mxry]

Nah, CW’s good. Nothing major like that will happen.

[@kimberlysymonds7517]

They need to buy Marineland now

[@nv_spartan1771]

My TV says the economy is better than evah! Why aren't people spending as much on leisure?

[@restlessbohemian26]

Sounds like you have been watching propaganda, you might want to seek news online and never consider what's on television to be a trusted source. You will still have sift through news sites online as well - it's not easy to find truth these days.

[@nancyfarkas3592]

Better then ever? Have you seen grocery prices?

[@nv_spartan1771]

@@nancyfarkas3592 Unemployment is down. Wages are up! Only MAGA or QANON believe other wise. Don't you watch MSNBC or CNN?

[@melissacourcelle5796]

First

[@bassjasinski]

Inflation killed attendance

[@kevingreen5793]

All thanks to Biden!

[@dannydicesare]

@@kevingreen5793how about recovering from a global pandemic. The US inflation rate is one of the lowest in the world.

[@kevingreen5793]

@@dannydicesare inflation is the highest it’s been since the late 70s early 80s and not to mention gas prices are ridiculous. I only care about what’s going on in this country not in other countries.

[@dannydicesare]

@@kevingreen5793 The prices are determined by supply and demand. The president doesn’t decide what the price of gas is 🤣 You don’t have to care about other countries. I’m just comparing the US to others to show that we are in a better situation than most and it isn’t the president’s fault that we’re recovering from a global pandemic along with capitalism being alive and well in the US.

[@kevingreen5793]

@@dannydicesare that is true the president doesn’t decide what the price of gas is. However his policies control the prices. Trump made this country energy independent for the first time since the 1950s so oil was cheap. Biden cut oil supply so instead of importing our own oil we have to import from other countries which causes the prices to rise. That’s why people who vote for Democrats are stupid!

[@user-hr5gd1zl6w]

Hershey Park be in trouble and Dorney Park and Six Flags be together in a season pass

[@AFCompany]

I am hoping they choose to do a Dorney Great Adventure pass bundle. I was worried Dorney would get axed now because it is competition to Great Adventure as they are so close but then I was like why would they put a 20 million dollar dive coaster to close it in two years. If they used Six Flags capital to invest in more large scale coasters and rides for Dorney while also keeping it family and water park oriented and then cleaned up great adventure and made it nicer but still a coaster mecca, they could really give Hershey a run for its money especially if they had a season pass bundle of the two.