The DUMBEST QUARTERBACK CONTROVERSY in New England Patriots HISTORY | Patriots @ Dolphins (1990)

[@johnny__topside]

This video should be required viewing for any Patriots fans who think “it can’t get much worse” after the last few years. Yeah, 4-13 is bad, but the Eason and Millen years with Macpherson and Rust are prime examples of how bad things can get

[@barbaracaroll]

People forget how Parcells resurrected that franchise

[@fortynights1513]

I find it interesting how the Patriots went from a team that made a surprise Super Bowl appearance and another playoff appearance in 1985 and 1986 to a team this bad in 1990.

[@geraldfields6169]

Clearly this guy does not like the Patriots at all...which is ok he's entitled to his opinion. The '76 Bucs were worse than the '90 Patriots.

[@fortynights1513]

@@matthewdaley746Those mid 80’s Pats overachieved no doubt, but when a team regresses from a lower playoff team to a historically awful one in four years like they did, I can’t help but ask what exactly happened.

[@michaelmcdermott8022]

Although his motivation for buying the team was to bring them to St. Louis, James Busch Orthwein had a lot to do with it as well. The Pats were in terrible disarray under Victor Kiam.

[@r.williamcomm7693]

Agree. Seasons like this brought the price of the team down for Kraft to eventually buy it. Parcells coaching & draft Drew Bledsoe had the 1996 Patriots in the Super Bowl.

[@brettbanta2100]

Those old Patriots uniforms were so nice

[@michaelsamuel9841]

They're records weren't lol

[@brettbanta2100]

@@michaelsamuel9841 no, not so much back then

[@chadwickwhite6107]

THIS is HOW I will ALWAYS REMEMBER the New England Patriots.

[@not-very-clever]

I just want to say that I enjoy your videos and your commentary very much, you have found a way to combine knowledge, insightfulness, with just the right amount of snark. Well done my friend, well done.

[@GuitarMatt]

It reminds me of the time the Montreal Canadians left Patrick Roy in a game while he was being skunked. He walked by the GM and told him he'd never play for them again. He ended up a Stanley Cup champ again for Denver

[@ianpoyant9772]

As a Patriots fan, I 100% concur that 1990 was the worst. About the Lisa Olson incident-that came on September 17th, the day after their only win of the season in Week 2 against the Colts. So that kinda overshadowed the win in of itself.

[@mgb4692]

Underscoring the fact that Zeke Mowatt went from the Super Bowl to this. As Chris Myers once put it, like going from Beyonce to Whoopi Goldberg

[@g3heathen209]

That was a rough year to be a pats fan.

[@Deltron3031]

To use this team in Tecmo Bowl on NES tested my fandom even further. Compared to Randall Cunningham's passes which zipped right to his receivers, Wilson's passes would leave the screen for seemingly 10 seconds while he threw absolute eephus pitches to his receivers.

[@aVerveQuest]

Grogan was a sort of Josh Allen test version. But the brutality and defense favored rules back then meant a running QB had a very short shelf life

[@hankdewild9720]

Anybody who has played Tecmo Superbowl on the NES knows why you keep Marc Wilson in.

[@williambutler3103]

😅I grew up in Foxboro and if my memory is correct, Rust had been passed over for HC a few years earlier. So when he took over, we actually thought he was going to be great.

[@67marlins]

Massachusetts resident here....yeah, 1990 hurt. But now people may understand how excited we were in 1993 - Drew Bledsoe, Bill Parcells...and great new uniforms.

[@fortynights1513]

I like the 80’s and early 90’s uniforms personally.

[@vicepresidentmikepence889]

​@@fortynights1513Those uniforms were loser uniforms, just like the Buccaneers orange uniforms

[@PGar58]

And even more in 1994 when Bob Kraft bought the team.

[@fortynights1513]

⁠@@vicepresidentmikepence889I don’t care if they won or lost in them, I think they are cool regardless. As for Orange bucs uniform. That is not my cup of tea personally, but they were fine.

[@fortynights1513]

The 1991 Colts also deserve mention when talking about the worst teams.

[@82dorrin]

When Jeff George made his grand debut.

[@marcusmcgraw3519]

The 91 Colts were probably the worst offense in NFL history. Worse than the 98 Eagles. Their o line was so bad that Jeff George barely made it through the season. They couldn’t even average double digit points per game

[@fortynights1513]

⁠​⁠@@marcusmcgraw3519The 91 Colts had a listless offense that was outscored by Washington’s kicker, and had a bad defense too. What makes the 91 Colts exceptionally terrible though is that the schedule they were handed was pretty average to marginally easier than average. For most teams that were historically awful statistically and trash on both sides of the ball, at least you could argue they could’ve been better if they were handed an average schedule. The 91 Colts you could not argue that about. If they were handed a schedule as hard as some teams that get recognition for being awful, then we’d probably be talking about another 0-16 team (as is they were 1-15 with the lone win by a single point; albeit against the 91 Jets who were pretty mediocre, but made the playoffs).

[@Keith_McDaniel]

As well as the 1989 Cowboys

[@CTubeMan]

Rusty Hilger set the tone for that season.

[@andreveach7520]

We Pats fans were 'spoiled' for roughly 20ish years......

[@rngfootball759]

The whole clown show that was the Victor Kiam owned Patriots. The whole season's highlight was Randall Cunningham running all over the defense on that one play with the Pats d just standing there.

[@marcusmcgraw3519]

Funny you mention that play, that was the exact one I referred to when I talked about how bad this team was. Cunningham may have deserved MVP consideration for the year, but he was able to sleepwalk his way in on that play

[@mrmoose6619]

Rod Rust had to say something... he failed. I'll always say that the Hue Jackson error was the #1 & 2 worst seasons ever.

[@BuccaneerBruce]

Hey you've got the proper Patriots helmet. 😂. BTW that 1990 Patriots team was AWFUL. My best friend was a Patriots fan then and we both wore Starter jackets of 2 of the worst team's that year.

[@Keith_McDaniel]

I kinda forgot Marc Wilson played for the Patriots

[@marcus813]

Those Patriots the Bucs look competent both on and off the field that season and that's saying something. I can't remember if I watched much of that game, but I see why Rust lasted only one season there. His reasoning for not putting Grogan into that game made no kind of sense. My enduring memory of those Pats was seeing Washington crush them by 15 (a 3-score game in those days) in front of a mostly national audience in a Saturday afternoon CBS window (blacked out in Greater Boston and likely Providence, too; no shock there).

[@vintvarner16]

The old man won their only game that year, Grogan was a very good QB, besides Brady and Bledsoe, Grogan is the other best QB for them

[@johnphelan4215]

I went to the last game of the year for this team as a fan of the visiting Giants. What I was blown away by more than the terrible team was the awful facility. Metal bleachers like a high school, a giant traffic jam leaving through the one exit. Yeesh. It was like when the Giants were at their low point in the 70s playing at the Yale Bowl. Everything was bush league.

[@hrtvfan2870]

Rod Rust would have been better off spiking the ball into the ground on every single play than use the excuse he did. This also makes me wonder how Marc Wilson got as many chances as he did (especially with how fixated Al Davis was in trying to make him the Raiders' quarterback of the future).

[@bjchit]

Cause the alternative was Jim Plunkett.

[@Jason_Maier]

To borrow the Urinating Tree slogan; the Patriots were a Lolcow franchise for a long time. Billy Sullivan wasn't one of the wealthiest NFL owners and he was a cheap bastard. Things got worse after the team lost a lot of money bankrolling the 1984 Victory Tour by the Jacksons (which was a Chuck Sullivan idea) and they got said financing by putting Foxboro Stadium up as collateral. Long story short, the NFL even had to step in because the Patriots financial situation was bad. As for other bad teams here are some dishonorable mentions: 1977 Buccaneers: 2-12 record, scored only 103 points all year, held to single digit point totals 10 times (6 of them being shutouts) 1981 Colts: 2-14 record with both wins against the Patriots in week 1 and 16, defense gave up 533 points (a record which still stands to this day) 1991 Colts: 1-15 record, scored 143 points (which was less than the 149 scored by Redskins kicker Chip Lohmiller), held to single digit point totals 11 times (2 of them being shutouts)

[@CTubeMan]

Not to mention about the 1977 Buccaneers, their quarterbacks threw three touchdown passes and 30 interceptions. Might be worthy of a JG9 weekend doc.

[@TPTGopher]

@Jason_Maier Bob Kraft has a Victory Tour poster in his office as a reminder of what said fiasco set in motion.

[@JeffCirillo]

People forget how Drew Bledsoe resurrected that franchise.

[@Tadicuslegion78]

Patriots fans of below a certain age do not remember the horror show that was the Sullivan family owning the Patriots and how close the Patriots came from disappearing in Massachusetts had Kraft not bought the team in 1994 from Orthwein who was contemplating moving the team to St. Louis (who had bought it from Kiam who bought it from the Sullivans)

[@randonlee]

I played QB in highschool and semi pro for a year. It takes 2 minutes to warm up on the sidelines.

[@67marlins]

Honestly I cannot remember why we even got Wilson.....I know Grogan was getting older with injuries, but surely a more competent #2 could have held the seat.

[@Stephen-to7jx]

It's hard to believe they were a favorite to win the Super Bowl in '81. They finished 10-6 in 1980 and didn't qualify for the playoffs.

[@JamesJohnson-l6y]

Without Bill Parcell's resurrection in 1991. The Patriots didn't start their dynasty in the NFL!!!

[@goldensteeltv8546]

10:45 for the signature catchphrase if you want to hear it.

[@CTubeMan]

Rust had Bob Stanley warming up in secret.

[@Fender178]

During his heyday in the mid 1970s Grogan was an amazing QB a dual threat guy who could throw or run the ball. The Pats finally got good with Grogan under Center.

[@r.williamcomm7693]

We saw the Saints get beat by the 2020 Buccaneers in the playoffs when Drew Brees could barely throw the ball. At one point Jameis Winston took a toss & threw the ball downfield. That HC was the “great” Sean Payton.

[@aVerveQuest]

I started watching the NFL around 78-79. My dad got me a collection of mini felt banners, one for each NFL team. For some reason I picked the Patriots, even though my dad, from TX originally was a Dallas fan, and we lived in PA, a couple hours from Pittsburgh or Philadelphia and only an hour north of Baltimore, and yet I picked the Patriots, and being stubborn, never looked back. The 70s finished strong, but 81 brought BE back to earth, one of the

[@PGar58]

Until Bob Kraft the best owner the Patriots was James Orthwein who wanted to move them to St. Louis.

[@CTubeMan]

Since I’m seeing some mentions of Victor Kiam, he was well known for owning the Remington Shaving Co before buying the Patriots. I wonder if part of the decision to rename the new stadium Gillette Stadium was to further bury the Kiam era. Yes, I know Gillette is based in New England, but still…

[@LegendaryDorkKnight]

Since it's a coach making the decision, I'll go ahead and say it. "Talk about a dumb decision!"

[@DoctorNovakaine]

It's almost a guarantee that the extremely threadbare excuse for not starting Grogan was covering for something else. I would almost lay money on it. Bad coaches and bad records almost always mean behind-the-scenes dysfunction of some kind. One possibility was that Rust and Grogan were feuding and that led to Rust being determined not to play Grogan no matter what. Another is that Grogan was refusing to play for him, perhaps for a similar reason. And there's plenty more that could be speculated. But if he wasn't warming up at any point, there is zero chance that Rust was actually contemplating putting him in. Rust saying what he said is just a sign that he's not good at coming up with excuses that sound good to observers.

[@BobSmith-ik3sy]

Grogan was playing that season with a neck brace, and severe shoulder-neck injuries, but wouldn’t retire. I’m betting Rust didn’t want to risk a worse injury by putting him in-and didn’t want to say that to the press.

[@Colin_1977]

I grew up in Western Mass during this period. No one ever talked about being a pats fan then. You were ridiculed in school. Lots of Giants fans. Cowboys became popular. A few Dolphins/Dan Marino lushes. I suffered in silence.

[@ciesaro]

Steve Grogan played almost forever for New England. But then his longevity record was broken by someone named Brady

[@JStorm13]

Not to mention during that 7 min, if not a little longer, you can also sync with the center.

[@doktorwort]

Forget Grogan, why didn't Hodson go in any earlier in the season? The 92 Seahawks were pretty trash too.

[@fortynights1513]

Another utter trash team from the early 90’s that deserves mention: The 1991 Colts. They played pathetically, and their schedule was pretty easy for a team that played historically awful statistically.

[@doktorwort]

Oh they were horrible as well. But at least George and Trudeau had the ability to resemble competent QBs. Seattle ran out Stan F'ing Gelbaugh for a good chunk of the 92 season 😂 Which reminds me of another trash 90s team, the 91 Cardinals. They put a dude better known for being a punter for many years under center, Tom Tupa. I don't know which was worse, Gelbaugh or Tupa as an NFL starting QB.

[@fortynights1513]

⁠@@doktorwort​​⁠​⁠91 Cardinals at least could say they were handed the hardest schedule of any team since the mid 70’s (their opponents had a win percentage of over .600), and while they weren’t good, they could’ve won five or six games if you handed them a more average schedule. Also, the 92 Seahawks had one of the worst offenses you’ll find, but their defense wasn’t one of the worst and even had Cortez Kennedy and Eugene Robinson relatively in their prime (17th out of 28 isn’t very good, but probably better than a couple of these teams).

[@doktorwort]

92 Seahawks had Chris Warren at RB and a few decent receivers as well, so their offense as a whole didn't look bad, they were just so, so horrible at QB. Yeah, the 91 Cards didn't get any favors by playing in the NFC East back then either. A lot of solid or great defenses there, which they had to get through twice a year.

[@fortynights1513]

@@doktorwortI’ve heard that the offensive line blocking for the Seahawks in the early 90’s wasn’t good either.

[@randytracy1742]

Rod rust was Avery. Rod rust was a very bad coach for the patriots in 1990 indeed- I wonder if the team today would be better without their old coach belichick and good with their new one in 2024? Just saying! 😮😮😮😮

[@DamonNomad82]

So, does that mean the team they beat (the Colts) have the most embarrassing loss in NFL history, since they lost to that New England team, especially since that game was a home game for the Colts?

[@AXXXDEAN]

If he was doing that bad l and wasn't down by much.... why wasn't they running the ball? Looks like it was all passes

[@cs1992]

Grogan was still active in 1990? geesh

[@chrisuncleahmad789]

Pete Axthelm summed it up best on NFL Primetime the week before when NE played Seattle: "Marc Wilson week by week is redefining the barometers of football inepitude."

[@rainbowdillard8581]

I'm not saying it's a good idea, but it does make sense that a person doesn't study for a test after being given more time to study. Something kept that person from studying initially--work, family issues, a procrastination problem--so what happened before is likely to continue. I say this as someone needs deadlines for motivation.

[@ciesaro]

Rust was one of the worst but Ed Biles of Houston was perhaps THE worst

[@CTubeMan]

This unofficial Official Jaguar Gator 9 historian will remind everyone you made a video about something similar Frank Gansz did as Chiefs coach in 1987.

[@aVerveQuest]

I remember this misery well having become Patriots fan in 1979 when I was in first grade I had picked the Patriots bc asa child my father had bought me a collection of all NFL teams banners and I guess my child brain just like the logo. Set me up for decades of misery. In 79 the Patriots were still contenders,scrappy and fun to watch underdogs. Then the heartbreak of missing the playoffs after being a seeming lock going into the last week (allowing a crappy Bills team to die early in the playoffs) Then came 1981, and years of misery, decades. But my loyalty paid off I guess. I remember wanting the Patriots to switch back to Blrdsoe (I knew very little about football back then)

[@Fireyninjadog]

The 1990 patriots were one of the worst teams ever, on and off the field

[@Subhuman_Gamer]

Malice intent? Better draft pick?

[@Cityofstroud]

Sorry for bugging but whens the dummies

[@OfficialJaguarGator9]

I’m hoping to get it out as soon as possible. Lot of other stuff came up unfortunately that was out of my control (nothing bad or anything like that or alarming)

[@Cityofstroud]

@@OfficialJaguarGator9 ok

[@Cityofstroud]

@@OfficialJaguarGator9 so it should be soon

[@vintvarner16]

Even if they felt Grogan couldn't go for it. They had 3rd stringer Tom Hodson, anyone better than wilson

[@kpk33x]

Worst coach of all time isn't Kotite?

[@Rockhound6165]

I saw this team play the Eagles this season. The Eagles won 48-20 and it wasn't this close.

[@marcusmcgraw3519]

That was the game where Cunningham ran around left end on a broken play and just kind of kept making his way up the sideline. Nobody could seem to find him or tackle him. It was one of the most pathetic touchdowns I’ve seen, and it shut the door on this Patriots team winning any more games that year

[@classicrockbeagle]

Teh NFL put up with Dan Snyder for over 20 years. But Vince Kiam made one remark and he was forced out of the league and justly

[@danmount9462]

I'm amazed this franchise survived Rust and Dick MacPherson. At least the latter was a very good college coach.

[@ahoneyman]

"Those kids are bustin' their pahootsahs out there!" Dick McPherson on the 2-14 Patriots

[@rngfootball759]

Both were Victor Kiam hires. Those were the dark ages in Foxboro.

[@xaviercardoza1230]

It was a good thing that I wasn't alive for the New England Patriots 1990 season. After finishing the season with a 1-15 record, that is, still to this day, the worst season in the franchise's history. JG9, can you cover the November 24, 1963 game between the Dallas Cowboys and the Cleveland Browns? There were a lot of players and fans that were completely devastated that day due to the events two days prior.

[@tomkoutsopoulos528]

Yeah that team was rough……

[@ConleySmooge]

I had a Tom Brady snack, as a Bucs fan, you had 6 Superbowls, and zero losing seasons (even when Tom broke his knee that one season. I suffered the only Tom Brady losing season. Of course......it was somehow good enough to win the division. I got 3 straight titles.( 1 SB, 2 DIV), you got 99 percent of the glory. He made the SB 4 times and did not win, too.

[@bronsonbamnallen1633]

Rod Rust was so bad. Might be the worst coach in my lifetime (1987) although I know David Shula existed.

[@scottfarmer8758]

Wasn't Steve Grogan forced to retire because of a neck injury in 1990?

[@BobSmith-ik3sy]

Yeah, he played like he was one hit away from a wheelchair that season. Rust probably sat him down to save him from himself.

[@TheAlfrulz]

​@@BobSmith-ik3sy - Good description. I remember playing the video game Tecmo Super Bowl and Grogan was easily the worst QB in the game. To me he was like Glass Joe from Mike Tyson's Punchout.

[@crowejoy]

I won the Tecmo Bowl with the Pats…. beat the 49’ers .It’s been decades, but I used my qb’s as runners.They sure couldn’t throw .

[@mgb4692]

BTW, there was no World Series with the Reds sweep, meaning that Sunday night would be totally open (unless TNT put on an NBA preseason game last min and I missed it). So kids remember to thank the Patriots twice for this turdburger.

[@AdamJ617]

10:45!!!

[@brentweir4651]

Ahhh, the good old days!! Rush lead to another "great" HC for my team...Dick McPherson!! Only thing my boys did good between '85 and '96 was the best uniform in sports history. Amazing to think what a laughing stock this franchise was until '01!!!

[@ivokarmely453]

Steve Grogan was a good quarterback.

[@PGar58]

10:45 😎

[@wrongwayranger4736]

How about the 2024 patriots being worse

[@OfficialJaguarGator9]

2024 has been awful 1990 still clears by a million

[@LazyCat010]

The Patsies