The Economics of Good and Evil

[@kripsters1]

This guy is amazing, most of these economics talk a bit boring. But he kept me entertained for the full video

[@OneSBeatz]

I swear ive learned more from watching these videos for the past couple months, then what ive been taught (and still learning) in school for the last 13 years of schooling lol

[@Alpinex105]

Something that's not clear is how do we get out of the current situation? We could return to the old model, but that's a long term solution.

[@pjamesbda]

Amen Brother...thank you Tomáš Sedláček. Although I am sure most of our leaders, including Tim Geithner, who would say you cannot reduce our complex society to that of ancient Egypt, I believe in the ppl of this country you will find a thankful audience. This is a little like finding your tumor denign. All we need to do now is convince our leaders to move the energy we created, and they have squandered back into the store houses, and we'll be fine. So easy? (yea, right!)

[@Drixicon]

@Jeridiculous Perhaps you missed the point, he was making an analogy. Later in the talk he actually made it a point to say that there was wisdom in the 'story' of Joseph and the king. (Which after hearing him explain a bronze age notion of the business cycle, was kind of hard to argue with.) He later on made the analogy that printing money and debt was akin to having the Ring of Power from Lord of the rings, surely he wasn't saying that wizards and hobbits are real. Hope this helps.

[@CognosSquare]

@mikeye9 no for example Sweden, where Im living is doing grea. Our economy is growing at a steady and good pace. Because of doing what this guy says, at the core level. Transparency also was a big thing, to be able to see the situation clearly.

[@lawchristopher]

I love this guy's analogies!

[@Kobe29261]

@OneSBeatz U and me both. This is the classroom of the future, bring ur notebook! Forgt the xpnsv colleges, they exist 2 perpetuate themselves. True wisdom can always be had for next to nothing! You know you've found real wisdom when you don't need a degree to understand someone. If a model is too complex to understand with a high school diploma then it really doesnt make sense! Glad to meet u!

[@CraazeyBustard]

@SuffocateJav90 How would you do that? Can you please explain? It sounds to me like you are talking about barter, which is exchanging goods for other goods. Money has been invented because this system got too complicated.

[@Danmega2]

Make these louder please!

[@ArchonLicht]

@CognosSquare That's exact opposite of "eating all grain" - if at most successful years you invest = "timetravel" physical resources (or call it "energy") to the future, which might not be successful, then you actually comply to that biblical principle. But what he told us in vid was opposite - it's not OK to invest all in good years, because we need to save something in a barn. And here's the difference - we shouldn't save _money_ - but resources bought for money, so spend all money @ bad years

[@CognosSquare]

How does this differ from the Ron Paul "no government, no FED - the market sorts itself out quickly somehow" philosophy? It does not seem that his way plans ahead or do any precautionary actions. They both agree about the printing of new money though.

[@ThisSentenceIsFalse]

@rustyrusky But he does talk about all that--more so in the GoogleTalks lecture. He gets an hour there.

[@chapulinaaa]

@Wintermutate ... and you reinforce my point ;) Well, it's good to know that there are people looking through different angles, I just wish there weren't so many stuck at one... Good luck!

[@CameronCope]

@DoNotLaughAtMe a completely new system - not moneyless, but a complete redefinition of the value of money as back by Life itself. Life is what we all value, thus money is only a tool, and if used effectively can support Life if used in a way that support all Equally.

[@lllorenz]

@whahas Man, this is not really what I meant, I just indicated that there are certain facts such as unpredictability, risk, etc. that make a cyclic motion of the economy "natural". Of course we can and should minimize this as much as possible. Just please don´t pretend is that easy, someone would already have done it, if it were ... However, u raise an interesting point. Indeed there is much perversity in the world, when a country exports food, and yet part of its population hunger

[@CameronCope]

@lunainq start with yourself first - we each create this world through what we accept and allow within ourselves. if you do not trust yourself first and live accordingly, how can you ever trust another?

[@gargoylesama]

It's Friday, let us all time travel tonight!

[@CameronCope]

@Wintermutate yes there is no way to avoid the consequences of what we have created - though will we learn our lesson and create a new system so that as this one passes away we have a real solution that provides for all Equally, not based on debt but placing the value of money in Life itself

[@swiftset]

@TemporalOnline Indeed. I thought the beginning 7 years of plenty and 7 years of lean reference was spot on, but the latter ones felt unnecessary. Looking up his book, I realized that it's because his book is really about the history of economics, which was tied to religion, that he's doing this.

[@Helios1089]

@mindOFAlibertarian Slowing down GDP in the good years means in this case having a budget surplus (government collects more money than it spends). In the lean years, government could collect less money than it spends by using the surplus. No extra hiring necessary. The good idea is the help smooth out the business cycle, which will occur in any case.

[@CameronCope]

so forgiveness is the religious analog to a bailout. but if we would all simply forgive ourselves, then perhaps we could end the entire debt system and then we could start again with a new system not based on sin(debt) which requires forgiveness but based on giving to each what we would like - an Equal Money System.

[@CognosSquare]

@ArchSaur investing is "timetravelling energy into the future", i think he would say.

[@ChadSowash]

Agreed... An RSAnimate is a great idea...

[@ArchonLicht]

@Wintermutate Look, I won't continue because I don't have time and KZbin isn't really convenient from writinf long comments. I just want to note that there are a lot of contradictions here, even in your last statement. "The wealth was never real" - so it wasn't really a "good years" period? I know what bubble is, but how does it relate to this whole cycle concept? And again about spending - spending _money_ - we just established it wasn't "eating grain", didn't we? Now we go back to zero.

[@dysesthesiaAethiopi1]

Capitalists quantifying economies by good by and evil is like advocating that shark should feed themselves humanely. All that has ever matter to capitalism is the conditions that guarantees the reproduction of production/consumption.

[@MarkoKraguljac]

Thanks for reminding us how clueless economic PRiesthood is. Out of all farcical jobs most of us have in order to justify broken economic theories, these clowns are champions and favorite of the Court.

[@CameronCope]

@neordinarus debt is sin literally because as was explained in the video, we cannot show mathematically that the debt we create will actually be equalized by paying it back in the future. Which is what we see when we look at the world economies, they are spiraling further and further into debt. we will have to forgive ourselves of our debts and each others debts if we are going to stop this spiraling.

[@Kobe29261]

@lawchristopher Yeah me too. Only a true philosopher can convey a message that a 14 year old can understand especially when the message encapsulates some of the most complex statistical and stochastic measurements/evaluations. I'm gonna go read his book, he came across as a deep thinker. Glad you enjoyed it too. Peace!

[@DylanODonnell]

I can't concentrate because he looks like a guy i did a lot of drinking with and played a lot of punk and heavy metal with. He's too cool to look like an intellectual!

[@chapulinaaa]

The reason why people are not trusting economists as before is that they stick to the same old premises and can't see out of their own box - so starting a talk accepting business cycles as part of the world we gotta live in is not relieving at all ;)

[@clk211bu]

@cameronvcope - I agree!

[@CognosSquare]

@Wintermutate very interesting.

[@CraazeyBustard]

@RazClaw No, we would struggle without debt, like this economist has said, in the poor times (when our harvests are not sufficient to feed us). What is bad about our system is, like ke has said, "The Ring" which is the money printing machine.

[@selvmordspilot]

I'm not saying he's not talking some sense. But his idea of solving the problems is no where near ambitious enough, to solve the problems of our market system. Why is it that intellectuals and economers are so afraid of talking about actual change, rather than just strategies for prolonging mankinds suffering..

[@chapulinaaa]

@Wintermutate Business cycles are not like gravity, that we just gotta live with. They are the result of a terrible system, not an unbendable rule. Acknowledging they exist at the moment is necessary, treating them as ever-lasting truths is madness. Very little in the field of economics represents deep truths about how the world works. I'm waiting for the eureka moment, not sure it will come from economists at this pace...

[@ArchonLicht]

@Wintermutate That's where you are exactly wrong! Saving _money_ is not the same as saving _resources_, that's my point. Saving money is exact opposite of saving resources! Unless you only thing about your country, and thus think you can get resources for money at any time you need, but I'm talking about global economy here. There's no external source to it - you cannot print earth money and buy resources from Mars, or something like this.

[@HELLxYA]

Anyone whos saying "the bibles fake blah blah blah" didnt get what he's saying. He's not stating that its true or not, he's taking examples of economic writings (which are true, like he says) and gives them as examples. That cannot be debated, because its inevitable.

[@micsir888]

We charge interest rate, because of inherent risk.

[@Kobe29261]

@HELLxYA Sadly those who were turned off by it will misinterpret your words as well. We've become so averse to anything that smacks of faith that we even reject opportunities to learn from it. Perhaps necessity will force us to learn. Peace to you

[@RazClaw]

I don't understand economics and the whole money system that well, but from this lecture it seems that if we just remove debts (not allow loans), we'd have a better economy and these crises wouldn't occur. At least not as much. I would actually much rather see a world without money. It's created out of nothing, and only support the elite banks and corporations. The worst thing is this system is wasteful, and don't care about problems, because problems = chance to make more money.

[@MrIzzyDizzy]

the state has no monopoly on monetary policies - those are set by national banks which are allmost all held privately - they lend governments and memebr banks money (with out collateral) - the have lisence to print/create any anount of money they want - i think they should loan at negative interest -as even if loans are defaulted on it makes no difference -they just print/create moe

[@2plus2make4]

interesting talk

[@drb_physix]

The reason that the finance world of today know worse than Joseph in ancient Egypt is unrestrained greed.

[@rawrrdolll]

@GreatGungHolio @chrisdrakekaka I just got excited. jeezzzz

[@miramichi30]

@michalchik Chile a disaster? Chile was lifted out of poverty by free market economics.

[@tangent272]

I guess it's worthwhile that these smart people are thinking in these directions, it's maybe a good thing that solutions are on record On the other hand, I can't help feeling that these ideas - otherwise brilliant - are built around the assumption that those in charge are looking for ways to make things better for the majority. I don't believe this is the case, I don't believe the evidence can any longer support this assumption, in fact if anything the exact opposite appears to be the case

[@bloorwestreno]

making the mistake of thinking a country is rich because they borrowed money, like many governments today

[@michalchik]

@miramichi30 No, a few families in Chile got very rich by selling off the countries enormous mineral and fishing resources to foreigners. The starvation and riots got so bad that the secret police had to imprison and murder tens of thousands of people and the leaders of the country were indited for crimes against humanity some executed by Chileans most exiled. General prosperity did not return to the country until a democratic government was restored and economic reforms were put in.

[@Theworldforacountry]

brilliant

[@campbellpaul]

Unfortunately, a cartoon of this scenario would look suspicously like a dartboard.

[@lllorenz]

@Wintermutate U are completely right. That is actually what he wants to show by using the Pharaoh story from the bible: Cycles have been around a long time, due to nature (harvest!!!) and human psychology ...

[@BenGenio]

Resource-Based Economyyy!!!

[@GabrielZamoraMoreno]

Interesting - though what is the point of having bussiness cycles alltogether ? As long as such cycles exist we have a dysfunctional system - why not create a system that makes sense instead - one that supports us all equally (instead of only half of the world!!!!) right here instead of enslaving us in time ? Best to check out the Equal Money System proposal ps - READ on equalmoney(dot)org - before responing - thanks

[@TemporalOnline]

I liked the talk overall, but I felt uncomfortable with the constant religious references.

[@lllorenz]

@whahas Interesting point, however, how do we solve this problem? Just take the farmers products away and, with the money we take from the millionaires, ship it to places where people are hungry? MAn this sounds good but coming from someone who obviously has a laptop and internet, this taking away riches should commence with himself ...

[@ArchonLicht]

Investing all money is not same as eating all grain at good year. This talk has a lot of questionable parts.

[@colourmegone]

How appropriate that he should base his argument on a work of fiction, The pharoah's dream in the story of Joseph of all things! Just goes to show that economics is not a science but a web of opinion and sophistry, and as such suffers from the same defects as the religion he draws on.

[@vikitheviki]

RBE.. Resource Based Economy FTW!!!

[@gorlist187]

hmm there is no such thing as good and evil...they are points of views...no matter what intention you have it still is percieved good or evil regaurdless....it is pointless to bother...A good action is evil to another, and an evil action seems a gain to another...who cares, in the end it is all about self preservation, or you die and are forgotten like the many....sometimes an evil can make one live longer to help another, where a good sacrifical action will omit the option

[@neurel111]

seems like crap. economics with morality will never mix and that's good. those examples he brought up with the ancients is mostly fiction and in the case with Aristotle it was merely his musings and was never acted upon.

[@gargoylesama]

The Fable of the Ants and the Grasshopper.

[@lunainq]

@cameronvcope sorry but the men kind is not able to forgive or to trust. so a system, which is based on trust or forgivness, will not work. not today, not on earth.

[@michalchik]

OK, three idiotic mistakes in the first two minutes. The events in chapter 32 were not a business cycle it was a government preparing for a natural disaster. Our current mess is NOT a business cycle it was grand theft and fraud in the financial sector. Fiscal policy is NOT imposing debt on other people it is how the government choses to spend money supporting economic activity. This may involve government borrowing from voluntary lender of taxation of profits or fees for service.

[@asg102]

this guy is slightly mad....entitlements didn't come overnight they have been building since the the new deal VOTE RON PAUL

[@rustyrusky]

What a bunch of nonsense, he talks about the business cycle as if it was just there for no apparent reason. But we live in a world of causality. The Boom causes the Bust, and something must have caused the Boom. And the cause is easy money: artificially low interest rates, government guaranteed housing credit, you name it. It's startling how a rational minded person can't get the concept of cause and effect into his thick skull.

[@judoyodan]

Does this guy not understand that the bible is fiction?

[@bmbenblog]

as a bipolar, i take offense....i am no where near as crazy as most economists ;)

[@chrisdrakekaka]

@rawrrdolll Not even the RSA is safe from "first" hahah

[@rawrrdolll]

OMG I HAVE NEVER BEEN FIRST .

[@gorlist187]

if we could colonize other worlds or learn with certainty we are not alone out there...no matter how advanced or hostile i think it is best we learn it....cuz i get tired of this religion nonsense

[@roobs456]

@JSavic Marx was a Jew

[@kubaniski]

Keynes was a terrible economist, Hayek FTW!!!