The Elden Ring Lore Iceberg EXPLAINED! | Part 1

[@damienmcneff7715]

Hey it’s my iceberg :D This is gonna get good towards the end sections (with the ones I had no room for on the iceberg :p) Edit: The island in the ocean is actually that island right next to Mt Glemir that seems to be in a hole in the ocean. Kinda funny because you see it in the same clip you talk about the topic XD

[@gedewahyu.p]

You might want to add “microchimerism” next to parthenogenesis, to illustrate Marika’s persuasion

[@ostravamasterson4178]

People are not yet ready for the fact that fia is fortissax godwyns "companion" the second dlc is going to get wild

[@LostInTheFloatingWorld]

I’m guessing my theory that “the entire world of the Lands Between takes place in either a literal eye or a mind’s eye, and the Land of Shadow takes place in the other eye which has been sealed or damaged (reflecting the motif of demigods having only one eye visible, and also hinted at by the veils draped over the Scadutree)” didn’t make the cut for the iceberg 😭

[@damienmcneff7715]

@@LostInTheFloatingWorld the name was way too long

[@LostInTheFloatingWorld]

@@damienmcneff7715 honestly pretty good reason 😅 unfortunately it is impossible for me to shorten, due to, uh, the law, so I guess it is doomed to obscurity forever 😭

[@karmageezah4987]

Did u know the golden vow the hornset people use is different from the normal one. It has the spiral insignia instead of the erdtree

[@ogpizgar917]

and ofc we dont get it just like haligtree blessing smh

[@leonlai8270]

I think Miraka plagiarized the whole spiral thing to build the erdtree.

[@twodumbgamers9285]

​@@ogpizgar917why would we need it? We have the normal golden vow 😂

[@theiberianbadger0123]

Radahn actually makes more sense to be the final boss and the promised consort especially. Godwyn’s soul was obliterated and therefore probably couldn’t be revived or resurrected. But back to why radahn makes the most sense: the first boss you’re likely to come into contact with in the DLC is the dancing lion, which is clearly a revered part of their culture. The hornsent were much more willing to accept miquella as their God, promising them deliverance via the red lion, radahn. Not only that, radahn’s soul is imbedded within mohg’s body. Radahn is now a horned red lion. It makes sense how and why the hornsent would be so accepting of miquella’s deliverance and they probably saw his returning of Radahn as a prophecy from the heavens. Imagine being a hornsent, seeing your lands, culture and people assailed, impaled and burned. Then seeing a child, a child of the lineage which destroyed your land, raised to godhood, bringing forth a red horned lion down from the gates of divinity to usher in your deliverance. If I was a hornsent, I’d surely see that as a prophecy come to fruition.

[@varsedo]

This is probably the best explanation as to why Radahn is a good choice as the final boss. The first time I’ve heard this theory, too.

[@theiberianbadger0123]

@@varsedo I’m glad someone appreciated this. I didn’t really take it in until my 2-3rd play through, but it makes almost too much sense.

[@varsedo]

@@theiberianbadger0123 I am in support of the original theory for Godwyn to have been the end boss but your reasoning does make a lot of sense. I will say that it makes sense from the new lore/DLC standpoint. The base game definitely pointed towards Miquella wanting to revive Godwyn for some reason, whether it was just to give him a true death or some other reason.

[@theiberianbadger0123]

@@varsedo I wouldn’t be surprised if Godwyn was initially the desired consort. But probably miquella realized there was no retrieving godwyn’s soul, so the most he could attempt to do was pray for a true and proper death.

[@varsedo]

@@theiberianbadger0123 here’s the thing though. I don’t believe Radahn was chosen as consort for story sake at the beginning. I honest believe it was a last minute thing that ended up working out. I could be wrong because your theory fits pretty well but it just seems like it wasn’t the initial case.

[@e.m.4164]

I wonder if Melina is 'burned and bodiless' because she and Messmer are twins, and Messmer's flame burned her in-utero, hence her physical form was never born

[@123blakej]

6:18 The ancient meteoric ore greatsword item description states that the sword is a shard of an arrowhead from the old god’s arsenal. If that shard is the same size as the arrowheads from the golem arrows then they were massive! Also a giant weapon used by possibly an even bigger being is sticking out of the massive dead dragon in the dlc.

[@loblo5542]

Elden ring is such a great game with ton of mysteries left unexplained.

[@fatalbook]

Hey that rhymed

[@oBuLLzEyEo1013]

I'm not a rapper so stop rappin' at me...

[@soltonali4481]

typical fromsoft tbh they always do this for our brains to always have a error lol

[@I_AM_MANDROID]

@@fatalbook Radahn is red, Ranni is blue, we all love Elden Ring, and the Dung Eater loves poo.

[@anonisnoone6125]

And that's what I fucking hate about Miyazaki's story telling. He leaves way too many things unexplained without giving even a hint (E.g. Melina). It feels like a lot of the stuff in his games r just cryptic for the sake of being cryptic. I don't mind mysteries but he just goes overboard imo. And then when u find out the stuff he cut from ER, it makes my point even more valid.

[@waltermolinski]

I wonder if the removal of an eye indicates a decision to reject the plan of the greater will or Merika. Ansbach says that Miquella removing his eye indicates he has rejected his Godhood. Mesmer apologizes to his mother before removing his. Ranni’s missing eye could indicate her rebellion, Melina’s could indicate her desire to burn the Erd Tree, etc.

[@Asteriarimia]

The term that used in japanese to refer to sciamans is term used to indicate a specific kind of priestess that are all blind.

[@AstralBelt]

I don't think Melina has a missing eye -- to me the symbol over her eye looks like a seal that breaks if she fails her mission and needs to utilize Destined Death sealed within her She may not be the Gloam-Eyed Queen herself, but the eye clearly harkens to GEQ and Destined Death

[@normanbates7373]

@@waltermolinski somewhere it's stated as a sign of spirituality. I think it's metaphorically to keep one eye closed to not get blinded by the gold... And both, ranni and Melina can just vanish in sparkles like torrent, which is also a half-spirit entity

[@samf.s.7731]

GRRM has a bizarre literary boner for one eyed characters They're supposed to be inspired by the cyclops from Greek mythology. But yeah, so many characters in this game have one eye. It gets ridiculous when you start counting all of them.

[@pyro3446]

Losing your eyes make you not able to ascend the throne, for many civilization.

[@mayhemivory5730]

9:29 There‘s also the description of one of the Rune items reading „do you see the Erdtree, towering over there?“ The way it is phrased as a question implies that not everyone can.

[@hahaalexasendthistorodrick]

Godefroy is the gloam eyed queen.

[@OpMindQrime]

Godefroy is Godfrey's Doodle-Bobb. Neohoy minoy yei, Neoyoy minoy ye yeo ngomoi, Tarnished!

[@Detriax]

This is actually true

[@samf.s.7731]

And we're the consort to soldier of Godrick, the one true Empyrean

[@sk8legendz]

The real ice berg is deleting the game, re-downloading with no wifi to play the Original Release Version, and discovering almost everything has had description changes, and then finding out original descriptions may have had bigger lore reveals and DLC connections than we originally knew of

[@anthonyrojas2205]

Wait are you fr….

[@DavidHill-im2zg]

I made a discovery yesterday which I think is huge. I know what's at the center of the divine tower hexagon. The realm of shadows is said to be in the same place as the lands between, that the scadutree is where the erdtree is. It turns out this is true. I don't understand the physics, but if you line up the sap collecting chalice with where Marika's bedchamber is...looking to the south of the map you can line up the cerulean coast with the lower edge of the cliffs in Limgrave. Bayle's mountain basically lines up with Caelid as well. If you overlay these maps and mess with transparency you'll see it. Then draw out the astrix between the divine towers and make the shadow realm more visible. Exactly where the lines meet is the "O Mother" gesture needed to find the truth of Marika's origins.

[@itskyyuuuu]

Lol not a discovery

[@makalahbaronghijibalambala7193]

Good work

[@GristlyRook9605]

@@itskyyuuuuhow not to

[@mcalaru]

It’s pretty big, I guess everyone who has some knowledge of the lore understood this once they reached the suppressing pillar

[@fourdayz1414]

@@mcalaru funny how that one simple line of text was what everyone was waiting for since the dlc was announced

[@AjinoARC]

perfect video to watch while eating and taking a nap. Thanks

[@maxwellchristie4558]

The Meteoric Ore Greatsword description mentions the sword is fashioned from an arrowhead from the old gods’ arsenal. I think the scale matches up with the giant skeletons. Plus the apostrophe position indicates multiple old gods. Seems like a good fit

[@codyjames4814]

Even if it a long shot for sequel. Yet a part 2 taking down the outer gods would be awesome

[@TotoIsWriting]

I'd kill for a prequel. Idek how they'd pull that off but it'd be so cool to fight Demigods from 2000 years before The Shattering

[@arthurdossantos6826]

Nah, the Outer Gods exist outside, they are more like concepts of life and death rather than individuals.

[@AALion2004]

​@@arthurdossantos6826 nah that ain't true the Blind swordsman literally Sealed the outer God of rot so yes they are physical manifestations as well they dont just exist outside all we really fight in Elden ring are their influences or 2nd in command's but not them

[@arthurdossantos6826]

@@AALion2004 "a god that was rot itself" so yeah, the god is just the concept of rot.

[@WobiKabobi]

We’re not suppose to see the outer gods they’re eldritch beings

[@tristanneal9552]

Two things to add: 1) It's worth noting that the Root Resin item description is pretty definitively proven to be mistranslated, which is why people still doubt the idea of a Greattree (this would eliminate the only textual evidence for it). 2) Melina's cutscenes are referred to internal by code beginning with the prefix "DaughterofMarica" so yes, she's definitely Marika's child. The new Messmer's Kindling item description soft confirmed it as well.

[@cardgameenjoyer7446]

Nic

[@Greywander87]

The maiden in the chapel was probably killed by the grafted scion. I'm not sure if it's a regular thing for new tarnished to appear at the Chapel of Anticipation, but Godrick might have decided to be a little more proactive with his tarnished hunts by spawn camping them.

[@realQuestion]

Varre seemed to know she was dead already when you first meet him, and it's he who cares about an artifact touching the blood of a maiden, right? The beast representing Godrick's noble line are all over the Anticipation area. I think Godrick has been "farming" Tarnished from there for a long time.

[@Cysubtor_8vb]

Don't think Melina was born "burnt and bodiless" but was eventually left in that state at some point. More likely, her curse has something to do with her eye just like her brother yet, while his is tied to the Abyssal Serpent, hers appears related to the Gloam Eyed Queen or, at least, destined death/black flame.

[@jarnedecock_AI]

I think radagon and GEQ had Mesmmer (and Melina as a child). The power of Destined Death present in the flame of the GEQ, also manifests partially in Mesmers flame, since Mesmers flame can also bring Death. Marika and radagon were always the same, but as radagon she seduces the GEQ and betrayed her

[@ricklubbers1526]

I like this theory.

[@ryangregson3256]

I agree with part of this, Melina's mother is the GEQ, hence her different look from the others and inherited GEQ qualities. Probably daughter of radagon, which would still make her sister of messmer even if messmer is son of radagon and Marika. Also, "seduction and betrayal" of GEQ, would line up nicely with dlc story trailer.

[@WobiKabobi]

@@ryangregson3256first GEQ was melina then she was marika and now she’s marika’s mother???

[@ryangregson3256]

@@WobiKabobi ha! I actually just think the GEQ is her own person but is Melina's mother. But that's me.

[@grownupjizz]

I think so too would explain a lot of things like how Marika is okay abandoning Messmer but shattering the Elden Ring for Godwyn. Seduction as a war strategy being repeated with the Carians. I believe the genocide of the giants was before her ascension to godhood and once she found out about the hornsents crimes did the same to them ( leaving behind a single witness Last Giant and Grandam)

[@Peyton-omniac]

So about the Empyreans only have one eye theory, I would recommend the Prisoner Theory. It’s a 50ish minute video showing how people who have one eye are prisoners of some sort, really cool theory video, and thanks for the vid man!

[@clame3065]

It's kinda crazy how much people clung onto Castle Sol and Miquella's connection to Godwyn. The whole journey to Malenia is a road of Miquella's abandoned projects and failures. First comes Latenna, and all the Albinaurics that never made it to the Haligtree, despite it having been promised to them by someone, presumably Miquella, at some point - considering they literally refer to it as "promised land." Then there's Castle Sol, where the clear story being shown is that despite Miquella's love for Godwyn, he still couldn't find a way to revive him. I thought it was pretty wrapped up there, as yet another tragedy along Miquella's path. Then there's the Haligtree itself, unfinished and filled with devout followers willing to blow themselves up to protect it, rotting from the inside. Malenia herself, his own sister, was even abandoned by Miquella so that he could pursue his own godhood. Miquella takes and takes and promises miracles in return, but he can never make them happen, all building up to the failure of healing his sister's rotting vessel, or making a promised home for the down-trodden, or reviving a dead soul/killing a body that lives in death. And that's exactly what the dlc is showing us - how despite how much he's willing to sacrifice, he will keep taking and taking, ultimately being unable to do what he promised so many he would.

[@ryangregson3256]

I just realized: Miquella is GRRM! No but really, I think he's an expression of GRRMs fears as a writer.

[@clame3065]

Also I just remembered, Godwyn's story is already wrapped up within the base game - Fia's questline ends with her gestating a mending rune, and if you read the description of said rune, you'll see that it's actually just Godwyn, existing as, well, something else I guess. Godwyn's existence on its own is very weird, considering he's one who "Lives in Death," which is also why I think Miquella couldn't revive him at Castle Sol - you can't revive something that's already living, even if he is living in death. I just think Godwyn's story was already very well concluded, albeit a little convoluted, and the info we got on him in the dlc was pretty satisfactory to me

[@clame3065]

@@ryangregson3256 oh wait that's a really cool idea!! I wouldn't have ever realized that lol, I still need to get into more GRRM

[@ryangregson3256]

@@clame3065 I haven't read is books yet either, but how long has he been hounded for not finishing the big promise that is his song of Ice and fire? It's an idea anyway.

[@clame3065]

@@ryangregson3256 oh my god you're right Miquella is GRRM, that's honestly a little funny but I feel for him lol

[@robertdelgado544]

I think that most people who thought the final dlc boss would be Godwyn fundamentally misunderstood Miquellas curse. He's not cursed with eternal youth, it's the inability to finish anything he's starts. He can't finish growing up, he can't finish growing the Haligtree, he can't finish resurrecting Godwyn and he can't finish becoming a god and imposing his order.

[@austinmc12]

But that doesn’t mean it still couldn’t be Godwyn but not the real him, a manifestation of him from miquella in some way. Miquella might not be able to fully finish his true goals true cuz he didn’t in the normal timeline as well just with Radahn instead of any form/version of Godwyn. I just really don’t like that we got basically nothing hinting towards Radahn. Melenia whispered an the vow was made but establishing that in the dlc an not anywhere in base game is off. An Godwyn having as much presence as he does in base game with also little screen time would have been perfect to show him off somehow. Might be cope idk. Def open to discussion

[@nigcholasgarcia1804]

So... Is he a fraud?

[@Meese12]

I dont really think that's a valid point. Sure its obvious that miquella was never going to enact his final plan to become a god, but hes allowed to succeed at individual things, for example resurrecting Radahn. If anything, i imagine Miquella's inability (or hesitance) to resurrect Godwyn was due to the circumstances of his death rather than Miquella's curse. TLDR: godwyn probably couldnt be resurrected because of the rune of death's influence, i dont think it had anything to do with Miquella

[@sam_i_am1143]

He wants to go home..... And edge

[@benvilimek335]

There are A LOT of reasons Godwyn was not a reasonable character to expect to fight in SOTE. Beyond even the relatively vague curse of nascent

[@_therealgee]

I think it makes sense Messmer is Marika and radagons son. I think he's an empyrean, but the abyss in him is his curse (like rot is Melanias). The abyss directly opposes the greater will in concepts of light and dark, which is why he's in the land of shadow. All head cannon of course Edit: I also think both of their eyes close/ go missing when they achieve "godhood" respectively. Mid fight with Melania, Messmer, and consort radahn. It's just something I noticed, however in miquella's case through what he did he achieved divinity and that's why we get the "God Slain" after his fight only.

[@TotoIsWriting]

2:30 that empty chunk probably would've held Godwyn, Prince of Death. In the code there's a file called Uzumaki, which is Japanese folk lore, a giant sea monster. On one of the first versions of Elden Ring's map, you'll find a weird looking sea monster with a tail and a weird smiling face, just like Godwyn.

[@blunderbass851]

This was incredible!! I definitely think we need a full iceburg breakdown

[@Devine_Bird_Warrior]

I know this is later in the iceberg but I wanted to ask What’s your thoughts on the twinbird being connected to farum azula? Hear me out pls… So the twinbird kite shield (dropped by a deathbird) tells us the twinbird is envoy to an outer god and mother of the deathbirds. explosive ghostflame spell tells us the deathbirds were the keepers of the ghostflame that burned the dead before the time of the erdtree. There’s carvings of the twinbird all over Farum Azula and even one on the bestial sanctum. The deathbirds of Limgrave, Liurnia, and Weeping Peninsula all spawn on fallen pieces of Farum Azula. The undead beastmen resurrect with ghostflame. Placidusax’s god is MISSIN.. not saying I know what this means but it’s an interesting connection I can’t shake

[@Vladek16]

9:28 I get that for this video format you're going fast, but the theory is not just based on that. It's also based on the tree having a wood base that then extends with a gold ghost, the fact that some people seem to not be able to see the tree (despite it's size), all the ashes in the capital (even before we burn it) hinting to the tree having been burned already, the minor erdtree beeing "normal" while despite beeing a direct offshoot of the main tree, and many more other clues. You should watch the video in full, it's realy good 😀

[@DanielGarcia-rx3kt]

And the Golden Trees in the Outer Wall of Leyndell are called "Phantom Trees" by one of the sites of grace. Phantoms don't have physical bodies and those trees likely grew from Golden Seeds. This implies the Golden Seeds dispersed when the original corporeal tree became the Giant Phantom Erdtree, just like real life pinecones (which are thought of as parallels to dragon eggs given they open up and dispersed their seeds by for), which was likely made by Radagon given vines are part of his identity and vines can support trees and the Minor Erdtree Church shows similar trees with the Golden Order Seal in that church implying Golden Order Fundamentalism was used to create them (there are 3 Minor Erdtrees there btw).

[@Eric-cj8sb]

Also the mention of thousand year cycles by the endings, Ranni, and now Miquella.

[@gamesshortsx7613]

‏‪9:31‬‏ The shadow tree is in the same place of the ERDTREE If you look at the map you will notice that they are the same thing

[@RomShepard]

Two things, I would like to point out. 1 Giants are compatible with giant dragon, which is killed in DLC with a spear plus the mother of all dragons is a huge, so possible in the past was a fight between Giants (Titans) and enormous dragons. According to Lore dragons won - era of the dragon lord. 2. Have you consider that Marika and Jars - could be messed up. If we consider the trailer for DLC and all mess with the dead bodies. What if Marika is Gloom eyed queen and she betrayed and killed gods to become one, so hornset people repeat ritual trying to replicate her results by using shamans (Marika's people) in jars. After all Marika came from far land to the land between, I think the huge boats/sarcophagus prove to it, after all in the game we are always travel by a stone sarcophagus.

[@benthemorrison]

You've become my fav ER lore channel. Amazing work sir.

[@TotoIsWriting]

The biggest difference between Dark Souls and Elden Ring is probably how explicit the narrative is. When DS3 introduced The Nameless King and we figured out his story we were like "ohhhh, full circle, lovely" . Elden Ring doesn't give us the full circle, it feels like every bit of the story is missing bits of the story.

[@yujin_sumeragi]

0:03 umm, akschually, it's RIFE with mystery, not ripe... 🤓

[@_Conzo_]

No, it's 'ripe', as in overflowing/rich in abundance. 'Rife' means the widespread occurrence of something unpleasant.

[@sageofalltime7867]

​🤓👆

[@yujin_sumeragi]

@@_Conzo_ not necessarily. Rife means 'abundant', 'widespread', 'prevalent', it doesn't have to be in a negative context. Ripe primarily means 'ready', 'matured', 'aged'.

[@_Conzo_]

@@yujin_sumeragi Simply providing synonyms for 'rife' and 'ripe' has not strengthened your argument. 'Rife' will always be a more negative term than 'ripe'. Additionally, 'ripe' can, of course, be used to mean 'a ripe avocado' for example, but suggesting that this is the main usage of 'ripe' is an oversimplification. Ultimately, the use of 'ripe' in the video makes more sense than 'rife'. Indeed: 'This branch of the company is rife with corruption'. 'The indie game development space is ripe with novel ideas'. Also, 'ripe' and 'rife' are beginning to not sound like words to me anymore. I regret everything.

[@yujin_sumeragi]

@@_Conzo_ majority usage does not detract from the neutrality of the word itself. Both rife and ripe can be used in positive contexts, as well as negative, and painting words in just one light is also a gross oversimplification. Agreeing to disagree is always an option, but don't try and present your subjective opinion as fact.

[@kennethmoureau5123]

To add to the part about Melina being Marika's daughter, her name in the game's files is something like "daughterofmarika"

[@Minion_5516]

I saw the tweet and got hyped for a video explaining it. Now it's real!

[@EC-nn1cx]

I kind of imagine messmer being born like Athena, just popping out of marika or her forcibly removing aspects of herself like a serpent deity that could’ve been apart of Marika once

[@PixelOverload]

11:56 from what I've heard, internally the games code refers to almost everything "hornsent" as "empyrean", so it seems likely that's just what the hornsent were called at some point in development and the granddame was just the last bit of that left in game, though that does still leave the question of why the hornsent in general would be called that 17:10 hmm, speaking of the player's maiden, why does Melina choose to act as such for the player specifically? It doesn't seem like she's going around acting as maiden for any other maidenless tarnished unless you count all the other players, but im not sure that logic applies here quite the same as it did in Dark Souls 🤔

[@Momgetoftheroof]

Recently read about Izanami and a type of Yokāi named Jubboko. With the canceled boss or NPC labeled as Umibozu, I think there’s a lot more to gain from exploring Shinto myths as well as any similar ones from that era like Mongolic and Altaic beliefs. Izanami’s children match a lot of Marikas own in respect to their powers(In Godwyn’s case more-so his ultimate fate), as well as technically having a “brother”-husband with Radagon. You can also make a case for the outer Gods in ER to be the Kotoamatsukami/Kami who continue to influence the world in hiding, but I want to associate the Greater Will with Tengri, a personification of the universe in Turkic myth. And on Turkic Myth, Metyr might have been based off of Ak Ana since we find her deep underwater. Honestly, just A+ for thematic resonance and drawing inspiration from various religious mythologies. Last one I have is that Ranni might’ve been inspired by Manichaeism, even the name is similar.

[@demonbird166]

Have you noticed everything in Caelid is massive? The huge dogs, huge crows. Maybe infection from the scarlet rot enlarges those infected. And maybe those massive corpses are just soldiers or giants afflicted with the rot.

[@n8doggy733]

you mentioned Tarnished Archaeologist, my iceberg theory is that the TA team is actually George RR Martin that dude is just waaaay too good to not have some inside info

[@samf.s.7731]

Lolz, he's both GRRM and Miyazaki cooking together 😆🥂

[@n8doggy733]

@@samf.s.7731 fr, the whole game is just a facade so they can become popular KZbinrs 😂

[@StyleshStorm]

ok that's enough. I'm onion rings overloaded

[@meteorwalkergg]

Wait. The blooming onion flowers once more. You will witness true horror.

[@Drewberry47]

Really enjoy your work Zio 😁

[@xRJMx]

The hornsent grandam also has a specific type of horn growing. I think it’s something like layered or tangled horns, but they are said to be on only short lived horn-sent which is something very interesting about her.

[@yoitsrakel]

this is my saturday morning cartoons

[@robertotherabbit814]

While listening a thought occured to me. Marika and Tadagon were two different people until the jar ritual. They were both forced into the same jar.

[@TheGothblade]

Miquella's butterfly is the nascent butterfly. Nascency means not being able to complete what you set out to do no matter what you do due to well...your interest waning on said subject. Miquella just abandoning stuff is completely on point with his character and it kinda makes sense with the DLC's ending(even if it did kinda suck). It also means this is basically a George R. R. Martin ending to a story. Not a Miyazaki ending to a story. Maybe a compromise due to time contraints.

[@TheWaffleDuke]

There is actual mention of "our" maiden in the Preceptor Seluvis puppet basement. Finger Maiden Therolina's summon reads "Use to summon the spirit of the Finger Maiden Therolina. Spirit of Finger Maiden who never met the Tarnished she was meant to guide."

[@iamnobody4574]

i was about to say that, thanks for the mention.

[@nightscout9979]

That doesn't have to be the protagonist. Therolina could have been victimized by Seluvis while en route to meet her respective Tarnished, whereas the protagonist's Finger Maiden was at the Chapel of Anticipation when Varre attacked. The Finger Maiden at the start even wrote a message before her injuries caused her to perish.

[@LAK_770]

Her tarnished could be literally anyone, this doesn’t imply it’s our specific PC at all

[@launchbase4944]

well that could be literally anyone

[@Marikus_Eternal]

The colossal remains in Caelid and the Mountaintops are presumably the „old gods“ mentioned in the description of the Meteoric Ore Greatsword. The sword was once an arrowhead in these gods‘ arsenal and judging by the sword’s size in comparison to the colossal remains, it very much lines up.

[@jodianw]

I feel like the golden tree being only seen by those guided by grace really makes sense I encourage those to watch tarnished archeologist video on it

[@TotalTimoTime]

2:08 I‘d say no. There are ships at the shores of the land of shadows. It is clear that the land of shadow was hornsent land until the numen arrived via ship. Some of the numen were shamen and the rest we know 🏺

[@Ale-ey3xv]

Thought the exact same thing lol.

[@salaciousSaucegames]

Radagon is not Messmer's Father, that would mean that Radagon and Marika hooked up before she met Godfrey and before he met Rennala. Then after Messmer is born, they would split up for some reason and Marika would end up with Godfrey and Radagon with Rennala, then for what ever reason they re-joined afterwards... Messmer's red hair comes from the curse of the Giants, the Giants cursed the Hornsent including Marika. So when Messmer was born, he had Red hair from the Giant's curse and when Radagon split from Marika, he inherited that curse and had red hair. As to Messmer's father, he was likely born from Marika alone, same way Millicent was born from Malenia alone. Or his father was Eiglay as we see Eiglay's skin in Bonny village near a statue that represents Marika. That would explain why Messme was born with Serpents, and it would match the story of Egle the Queen of Serpents which Eiglay is inspired from.

[@Jalmerk]

Man I like the Tarnished Archaeologist theory about the Erdtree being a manifestation of grace in peoples eyes. It’s so elegant, but I’m not sure I buy it anymore either because of the mushroom theory. I hate it when new theories just bring more questions 😂 But I feel like it’s pretty undeniable at this point

[@Didymus20X6]

I think Tarnished Archaeologist's original theory was that it was just an illusion, but he later amended it to be more like a ghost or phantom. It's not that it's completely unreal, but rather that it's physically intangible. At least that's how he seems to have expressed the idea in some of his later videos.

[@Deter872]

9:45 if you want a bit more evidence, all you need to do it shoot an arrow at the Erdtree. If you shot the bard, the arrow sticks. If you shoot the golden part, it goes right though it.

[@AscendantStoic]

The eye removal thing might be a reference to Norse mythology and Odin losing his eye on his quest for godly knowledge.

[@rayh4an]

A theory I have is that both Melina and Mesmer are the 2 oldest demigods and are the children of Radagon and Marika. If I’m not mistaken I believe that in game files it even refers to Melina as Marina’s daughter. They were born shortly after Marika rose to godhood and she had split herself creating Radagon. I also believe they are both empyrean in a similar way to Malenia and Miquilla. Since Radagon and Marika are their parents, I also believe both of them were cursed like Malenia and Miquilla. Mesmer had the Abyssal Serpant and I’m guessing Melina has her curse dealing with the gloam eyed queen or a fire.

[@BIG_GUY420]

not a theory, established lore from item descriptions and in game text

[@mark3921]

@@BIG_GUY420 While I respect this guys theory, Godrick's greatrune contradicts this, stating that Godfrey and his kids were the first demigods. This is also supported by evidence Messmer was likely first showing up after the union of Radagon and Rennala as theres descriptions of him and radahn knowing each other and a lack of descriptions of Messmer and Godwyn knowing each other. From this we can assume (based on what we know and what we can likely assume) Messmer wasn't around during the dragon attacks as well as the fight with the giants. Item descriptions also state that Radagon first appeared during the wars with raya lucaria and not before.

[@BIG_GUY420]

@@mark3921 Ok so to summarize you are saying Radagon came after Godfrey so therefore Messmer would come later? That could make sense. My only counterpoint would be that it's still possible the land of shadow timeline could come before the dragon wars and establishment of the golden order. I'm personally undecided and not quite sure.

[@rayh4an]

@@mark3921 While I understand your point on why I could be wrong, we need to remember that Mesmer was removed from the history of the lands between. This would mean if he is the oldest demigod and was removed from history, someone else would need to take the title of the oldest to replace it. Also I do believe that Mesmer had lived in the lands between for a long time due to the descriptions in the Commander Gaius resmemberance. I believe he lived in the lands between during the early days of the Erdtree and left to the land of shadow during the time Radagon was Elden Lord. I still feel like that my theory does hold validity and it makes the most sense in timeline.

[@mark3921]

@@BIG_GUY420 I think the land of shadow timeline invovles Marika ascending to godhood as well as Messmer's crusade which i'd say happens after Liurnian Wars. This is supported by Lunar princess Rellana being almost in love with messmer (Remembrance of the Twin Moon Knight descript) and Gaius growing up and being friends with messmer (Remembrance of the Wild Boar Rider descrpit). Thats at least my take on it as supported by ingame items.

[@gfrozin]

6:12 There is one thing relative to their size, the forge of the giants. As pointed out by Tarnished Archaelologist, the giants forge is a little cauldron, with chains just like mobile forges used IRL

[@ndoe5219]

Why is no one talking about the spiral and how the Erdtree and Scadutree were once possibly intertwined in a double helix forming the “Greattree”? What if Marikas original sin was splitting the two trees? The Scadutree being a “shadow” of its former self. Marika being seduced by gold causing her act of betrayal. It’s very much like a George RR Martin story where two parties share a power, but one party secretly covets the power and wants it all for themselves.

[@echidnaburger02]

For a while I wondered if Marika just straight up couldn’t have any non-cursed children normally so she sort of used Messmer as a surrogate to take on Godwyn’s curse. I don’t really think this is the case anymore but I figured I’d throw it out there.

[@backyarddad4198]

It could be very possible that Miquella WAS trying to revive Godwyn so he could have a true death, but that his failure to save his brother from death or his sister from rot via the teachings of the golden order lead to him forsaking it and pursuing his own order. Basically his heel turn origin story. This would be stuff that could be in GRRM’s treatments of the backstory since from what we know, he kinda handled everything in the lore from before the game starts and Miyazaki handles everything from after. It’s possible the tv show he mentioned might be an adaption of the writings he provided fromsoftware, so that show could be a concrete telling of the rise and fall of marika’s order and the shattering war, ending with malenia and radahn’s duel concluding in a failed assassination attempt standstill genocide of a country.

[@just_cade]

I actually love the idea that Marika was actually a victim of the jar ritual, but she was the only one to survive and actually ascend to godhood. The hornsent wanted a god, well they GOT ONE.

[@andrewhasonenut5869]

saw your tweet about finding the iceberg and ever since ive been super excited to listen to this series!!

[@jakepeterson8032]

I believe 2 things in game are actually scaled to possibly have been used by those large skeletons in the ground in caelid and mountain tops. First being the meteoric ore sword and second being the large weapon planted in the back of the dead dragons head at dragon communion alter in land of shadow.

[@robocoontv3245]

My theory is, t hat there is only one tree. The land of shadows together with the Altus plateu were ones the kingdom of the sun. On the shield of that kingdom is the tower of the shadow keep. There was one tree which got burned at some point and in the lands between you can see the golden Illusion and in the lands of shadow not. If you are at the gate of divinity, you can see the golden branches covering the scadu tree

[@SuperKennyWorld]

yeah i think you're right, marika just pushes everything that would upset her order to the shadow realm.. uhhm i mean the land of shadow. So as the erdtree got burned the first time, she split it off and made the golden phantom

[@seanjohnson663]

I think the eclipse is still related to Godwin because the aow of the the eclipse shotel, death flare, is described as “wreathing the blade in the prince of death’s flame” and the mausoleum knights also have this effect on there weapons.

[@vasylpark2149]

The map of the underground where Godwyn is clearly has a massive tree larger than the erdtree that spreads its roots throughout the lands between. there was a great tree. I agree with Tarnished Archeologist that the Great Tree was cut down and the Erdtree was grafted onto the Great Tree.

[@EldenLadyBea]

ok that will be a nice journey 🙏

[@asd44688]

Since the main game and the DLC have references to ancient Mesoptamia, I think "The Lands Between" means "The Lands Between (Two Rivers)". Which are Siofra and Ainsel.

[@LostInTheFloatingWorld]

I guess my theory that “the entire world of the Lands Between takes place in either a literal eye or a mind’s eye, and that the Land of Shadow takes place in the other eye which has been sealed or damaged (reflecting the motif of demigods having only one eye visible, and also hinted at by the veils draped over the Scadutree)” didn’t make the cut for the iceberg 😭

[@jpteknoman]

Its funny how when you first reach Malenia, what you think is that she fought Radahn while in search for her missing brother who was stolen by Mogh and after that she went to the Haligtree and waited, hopping that Miquella will come back on his own eventually. Then the DLC drops the bomb that she was in on the plan to charm Mogh and kill Radahn, then combine the body of the one with the soul of the other in the gate of divinity to make the perfect lord for the god Miquella. She wasn't in despair over the loss of her brother, she did her part for the plan and was waiting for him to complete the rest and come back as a god.

[@randywilliams6248]

I used to have my own Grandam. It was an 03' GT and had full leather and 16" wheels

[@__Man_]

I think that the living jar practice could have been a shaman practice. The greatjar helm hints to this, and I think a spirit in one of the gaols might also say something related but idk. It would also make more sense for the hornsent to refer to Marika's ascension as a god to be called a betrayal if the hornsent were just aiding her people in their practice. But ig the hornsent could just have a crazy victim complex

[@LeoGarcia3HC]

There's a new theory going around that not only was Godwyn supposed to be Miquellas consort, but that Miquella had already attempted and failed to resurrect Godwyn therefore settling for Radahn as second choice for consort

[@WobiKabobi]

To go along with the marika jar theory and her being a successful saint, it could he an explanation for her ability to change from marika to radagon.

[@Arthimetes]

heres my take on the eclipse and godwyn. Godwyn was Miquella's first attempt at a lord, before Radahn. the black knives plot was meant to kill Godwyn to send him to the shadowlands, ranni tampered with the plot making it not work fully. "lord brother" is what Miquella calls Radahn, but also Godwyn in the Golden Epitaph. Miquella wanted Godwyn to die to be his lord, same as Radahn. When the plot failed Miquella tried to grant a true death to Godwyn through the Golden Epitaph, when that failed he tried to rebirth Godwyn's soul through the Eclipse, when all else failed he turned to his second option, Radahn

[@saeyabor]

12:50 I've always thought Alexander's determination to get killed by the PC is a sort of instinct without proper information. By that time he's full of Redmanes, Cleanrots, and presumably some Fire Giant, but doesn't quite know where or by whom he's supposed to get smashed ("correct" answer being "an Avatar at the foot of a Minor Erdtree").

[@ixdarkwraithxi3409]

yeah you gotta continue this series.

[@CoffeeBrainzz]

3:41 it’s not a theory … its FACT! It WAS GODWYN. We pick up the Legendary Half Eclipse Shotel from the Alter in the Church of Eclipse and the weapon description mentions Godwyn. Shotel Unique Skill: SET THE LUSTERLESS SUN ABALAZE WITH THE PRINCE OF DEATHS FLAMES!!!!!! 🔥 First OFF! The half eclipse looks A LOT SIMILAR to the Death Knights Gold Helmet Wheel from the DLC, perhaps that’s how Miquella was trying to complete the Half Wheel Centipede. instead of Vias method he was trying to create/complete his own circle? (Just what I noticed right now) Miquella and Godwyns names are the only DemiGod names found in the whole castle so it’s definitely not Radahn or some random Demi god comrade that Miquella was trying to revive, it was 1000% Godwyn

[@Sir_Shmoopy]

So many spine swords and so many questions of who they come from: Sacred Relic Sword, Milos, inside Dark Moon Greatsword, and Leda's Sword (looks similar). proly forgetting some.

[@ElderGamerX]

Godwyn was such an excellent red herring that people were actually disappointed when their expectations were subverted. Which is funny, because normally a curveball like this would be hype for people experiencing a story.

[@thatguyturningwrenches]

I still think, the fact that messmer is cursed with the Eternal Serpent behind his eye. As a child of Marika, that Melina is cursed with a Death bird Queen behind her eye. Making her take the name of the Gloam Eyed Queen. Since she is burned and body less (killed by Messmer). That she is the embodiment of death, having her wield Destined Death and Black Flame.

[@C-OBrien]

I think most likely Melina is the GEQ becuase 1. GEQ is confirmed as an empyrean, all of which are children of Marika, Melina talks about her “mother in the erdtree” that has to be Marika 2. She uses black knife/Numen fighting techniques, another connection to Marika 3. She is said to be burned and bodiless, which would make sense as the GEQ was defeated by Maliketh and his flames of destined death 4. She literally has a Gloam Eye 5. She is defo messmers sister and so it would make sense that they both have a connection to fire

[@avo2986]

With the erdtree theory that you mentioned was popularized by tarnished archaeologist, the theory wasn’t that only those with the grace of gold could see it, it was that marika collected a bunch of golden seeds to make the illusion of one giant tree.

[@Pauljambondoesart]

My theory is that miquella tricked Leonard into the land of shadow and than just yeeted him into the rift and Leonard's corpse became the putrescent knight (the putrescent knight is supposed to be the bones of a horse riding it's skin) that would explain why it's in the shape of a knight (radahn) riding a horse (Leonard).

[@10hawell]

Gloam eyed queen is sealed in Melina's eye like the snake was within Messmer

[@fuchicanete3372]

I like to think Marika and Radagon conceived Messmer and Melina before their union, then something happened to Radagon which forced Marika to bind their bodies together in Shaman rituals. Leading to the events of Marika marrying Godfrey and Radagon Renalla.

[@shannonconnor3697]

Definitely make another one. I need to see the lore theories im unfamiliar with 😂

[@eldenringpvpenthusiast1710]

I think huge area of land are sinking. It looks like shaded castle used to be level with windmill village and probably their royalty that fell. And the giant trees may be too heavy for the land, the shadowlands may have sunk below the erdtree as it grew. Every area in sote may have sunk from the middle of the lands between. windmill village is also mirroring nokron, with people letting rats run around and large areas of old royalty sinking, their weapons are similar too, using bone rather then metal work and decorating with buds and flowers. and if shaded castle did not sink, both the ancestrals and dominula would have miranda blossoms in places of reverence. Its all a reference to the flower crucible that predates the erdtree, and its festivals. The flower crucible, im almost certain, is the scadutree. Its a giant sunflower holding up the sun realm, the lands between where the sun actually shines. The tree avatars of both respective lands, directly symbolize their trees. There being a giant dragon at the base of the hollow erdtree is no coincidence. If anyone remembers the theory someone made of the erdtree sprouting from a flower, just like the thing on top the miranda blossom, that person was cooking. Florisaax drops and interesting weapon that implies this goes back to the ancient dragons, if not further. You can also see the remains of this culture in leyndel, under the shadow of the dragon's wing. leyndell also has sunflower designs of the floor, and the statues holding a spear, are holding a sunflower, getting more gold over time. its the same weapon as what you get from scadutree avatar, before its head got tired. Gransaax spear also looks like the same coiled up tree design, but with a tornado surrounding it. There is actually more reason to believe Varre would rather have you kill your maiden, to preform the ritual. I believe we fell as a seed of the erdtree, and landed at chapel of anticipation, rite through that hole in the roof where the light points at you where you first start. And had the maiden lived, shed walk out with us. So varre would know that we are maidenless, because we did not arrive with our maiden. Does anyone remember the cinematic for first mission of armored core 6? they dont let you replay it rite away so its easy to forget. they might make you beat the game a couple times first, just to swarm you with information

[@pg3223]

Root resin is NOT the only item that refers to Greattree. Both Deathroot and Map: Deeproot Depths refer to it as well, and even confirm they're different entities. Not a theory. "At the very depths of the Erdtree's majestic roots lies the source of the Ainsel and the Siofra rivers. Here too begins the network of Greattree roots that spread throughout the Lands Between."

[@simonramsey1947]

There is a wealth of evidence that supports the theory that the erdtree's golden visage is not visible to those stripped of grace. E.g. the finger reader crone dialogue: "Surely you see it, too? The gold that enshrouds the heavens. The great tree which begets the pillars of light.O Tarnished, hasten to the foot of the tree." Or the golden rune: "Even now, runes are still imbued with the power of life itself. Do you see the erdtree towering o'er" Why else would there be any doubt that we could see the erdtree?

[@manesybau]

we need a full series

[@mayhemivory5730]

4:38 I think it was originally supposed to be Godwyn, but they changed it because it would interfere with the Duskborn ending. They did state they didn’t want the DLC to have an impact on the base game, which I think is kinda sad because that or at least the interaction between DLCs was the best part of DS3.

[@trawll8659]

Messmer is stated somewhere to have been on the older end of Marika's children, possibly even the oldest

[@5N3K93]

7:02 I was one of those that really wanted more GEQ lore. Godskin lore was so cool imo. E: 9:10 I may be wrong but I remember the Erdtree being called (item description or dialog) “illusory.” 18:40 Also, Melina’s file name is “Daughter of Marika.”

[@janaguirre4756]

I have my own theory on Melina. She isn't the Gloam-Eyed queen, but in fact the Gloam Eyed Princess. It came to me after hearing another theory about the Jar rituals in bonny village. Most of the demigods share the same quality with marika and its to be a vessel for something else. Godrick unknowingly embraced his Shaman abilities, Margit was a remnant of the crucible, Mohg was a link to the formless mother, Godwyn was very loosely connected to dragon communion, Mesmer was an abyssal serpent and possibly let Rykard "dispose" of eglay Then the few children that i think hit the nail of my theory Melania was a vessel for the goddess of rot that was sealed away Miquella was a vessel for St. Trina up until the dlc And i can go as far to say that Melina is a vessel for the Gloam Eyed Queen, probably showing early signs at birth which forced Marika to seal her eye away. It's a weird idea that the things Marika tried to run away from are finding their way back to her

[@entroponetics]

The massive giants are likely the old gods referred to in the description of the Ancient Meteoric Ore Sword (it's referred to as one of their arrow heads).

[@colinwilhite8241]

You HAVE to go through that whole iceberg! I want the bottom tier!!!

[@Writh811]

The Meteoric Ore Greatsword says that is a piece of the head of an arrow from the armory of the old gods. So I think the super giant corpses might be the old gods.

[@rightguy200000]

6:10 The giant dragon corpse in jagged peak and gransaxx are both bigger than the giant skeletons.

[@damienferguson8151]

My theory is radagon is the other parts of her jar inwards that made her a saint bc we know they put criminals in there as well and there’s the brick hammer description so whose to say he was successful when he could’ve easily lost the rebellion of the giants then when she became a god radagon started to take on a form of his own

[@kreadapelu8813]

She was the rumored Finger Reader who raised Empyreans. She… being the Hornsent Grandam.

[@sammyjc]

Maybe Godwyn was Miquella’s first choice. The eclipse likely didn’t work because Godwyn’s soul was truly killed with destined death, unlike Radahn who is killed under the purview of the Erdtree. I also think it’s possible that Godwyn didn’t want to be revived. He seems to support Fia, and does not seem sad about his new state of being.

[@nightscout9979]

That might just be Fia casting a spell herself and trying to mislead the Tarnished. We already know she can be duplicitous based on the Weathered Dagger trap for D, and the Rancorcall attacks stop when Fia is killed. Godwyn's best friend, Fortissax, is opposed to Fia's efforts as well, and he has the unique position of knowing Death Blight as it affects both others and himself.