This SNAKE can tell us a lot about the GLOAM-EYED QUEEN

[@CenteredTarnished]

Reuploaded with better audio..... hopefully. Enjoy:)

[@ultimaister]

Thanks King

[@Turner6277]

Your script for what you wanted to say was fantastic. Very well put together video I enjoyed it!

[@empyrealcultist1992]

@@CenteredTarnished shes a dragon though right? Not a snake. Dragons are eternal, like her title, and all snakes descend from them aaaaand godrick calls the dragon a true born heir implying the dragon is of correct stock and was birthed naturally rather than some erdtree shenanigans. And how could i forget Radagon = a dRagon

[@NiaTheMilkTank]

What if the snake skin is actually where Marika gave birth to Messmer and that's where he shed out of the snake form after getting a blessing from Marika to allow him to retain his "Human" form

[@Turner6277]

@@NiaTheMilkTank but hes not a snake even after he breaks the seal

[@TheLyricalCleric]

Don’t forget that Hewg was personally tasked with making weapons to slay gods by Marika, and he helps out Roderika due to her reminding him of someone with a similar gift for tuning spirits long ago. Someone with very similar eyes to Roderika. Not golden eyes, but a peculiar shade of blue. And Radagon + Marika sounds a lot like Roderika.

[@House_of_Green]

😮😮😮

[@YesuaCuckBaby]

I wonder if a smiting Golem made the Godslayer Greatsword...

[@Kevvv890k]

you are into something!

[@eramismetal]

Holy shit, her name is literally both of theirs, I never noticed

[@NamelessKing1597]

If it was Radagon and Marika it would start with an M. I hate to go too GRRM on my theory but Ranni quite literally became a spirit and while her actual body had Radagon's hair she easily could have had Carian blue eyes even before she was a doll.

[@tonysladky8925]

"Made from patches of smooth skin," you say? Someone we know has smooth skin, and is literally named Patches. Coincidence? I think NOT! Patches is the Gloam-Eyed Queen confirmed.

[@mukkah]

Case closed, boys

[@telerobotic]

I like this a lot. That being said, Melina shares Marika’s own words in 3rd person, but promises us Destined Death directly from a 1st person perspective. It feels a lot like the power of the GEQ was sealed within Melina like the Abyssal serpent was sealed with Messmer

[@splitzerx570]

HOLY SHIT, I DIDNT EVEN THINK OF THE MESSMER/MELINA SEALING AWAY CORRELATION Nice catch

[@tatuvarvemaa5314]

I like this theory a lot. It feels like the game does everything in its power to point us towards Melina as the GEQ, but the time lines never quite fit together. Like Maliketh defeating the god skins and the GEQ sealing the rune of death, but if Melina were to be the GEQ that throws a wrench into things as she says she was born in the erdtree for the purpose to be kindling and her being the daughter of Marika doesn't make sense she'd have Maliketh sent after her. It could be that the GEQ was a god of the hornsent who delivered onto gods destined death with her Apostles and Nobles (whealding black flame as their god killing weapon power by the rune of death), who Marika used to take over the religion killing the other gods to plant her self as superior, and it wouldn't be the first time Marika is called a traitor in the DLC. It would even line up with Messmers purges Maliketh defeats the Godskins at same time as Messmer begins to purge.

[@Demokaze]

Not necessarily a seal. There is grafting in the ER universe. The practice of gaining someone's abilities by attaching their body parts unto yourself. It's unclear if only Marika's descendants can do it due to her shaman origins but since Melina is her daughter it's possible that she is borrowing someone's power by having transplanted their eyeball in her left eye socket. Though, I honestly think it's Maliketh's eye since the beast eye he gives you is violet and Blaidd who is another shadowbound beast has violet eyes. Plus, the tattoo on Melina's closed eye is that of a claw.

[@swamp-yankee]

@@Demokazecould she be our shadow? The opening cut scene has the sound of the bell wondering mausoleums that duplicate shard holder remembrances. Not sure what it means.

[@AA-hx8rl]

And she makes sure to differentiate between Marika and Her Mother. And if we took the Gloam Eyed Queen and Queen Marika as "different side of the same coin" parallel to for example Malenia and Miquella, then there is a possibility that they're siblings from same mother at least. And to add my imagination here, that's maybe why Marika joined her existances with Radagon so that She's became parallel with Radagon instead and to cast away Gloam Eyed Queen, like she cast away Rune of Death.

[@HunterOfArtemisMtF]

As a parent of fraternal twins i dont think ive heard it mentioned that Fraternal twins run in the family on the mothers side and Marika went on to have 2 sets of Fraternal twins. I think her having a twin isn't impossible at all

[@SymSne]

Yes, the main factor for fraternal twins occuring is how many eggs the mother releases during her cycle, and the male has no impact in that.

[@Kenspiracy664]

GRRM does love his genetic trait storylines.

[@Wyrdist]

⁠@@Kenspiracy664you mean his incest + “r word” storylines ?

[@Brokentwobutton]

​@@Kenspiracy664he made a literal family Tree. They're all just fruit and Erdtree burial and Remembrances are just the ones good enough to regraft into it and fertilize it.

[@LudiFGC]

Marika divesting these aspects of herself into all her children paralleling Miquella, cursed with youth, attempting to divest his aspects across his mother’s homeland and the site of the original cataclysm she caused is so sad.

[@trychydts]

That was so good. I love your approach to lore speculation, not being afraid to make those leaps of faith. Also very well reasoned.

[@CenteredTarnished]

@@trychydts thanks!

[@r0ughTr1p]

the algorithm pushed your channel my way after finishing nearly all of Vaatividya's, Smoughtown's, and FatBrett's Elden Ring content over the course of the last year or so. between all of those watch hours & 9 playthroughs of the game myself across nearly 500 hours, i thought i had a pretty good handle on what Elden Ring was all about. then, yesterday, i came across your videos, and spent four hours binging them. you've brought an intriguing & unique alternate perspective for theory crafting & fundamental understanding of the lore through your videos. well thought out, well structured, well done. subscribed! excited to see where you take us next. i'll be watching the rest of your catalog in the interim! cheers.

[@EvilAce360]

Could Godfrey turning into Hora Loux be like a suddle hint at Marika being the gloom eyed queen? Except its flipped in reverse

[@Victoria-vd2li]

great video, love the theory. theres also a parallel with Miquella discarding St.Trina

[@OSRS_Neobrand]

I think something that can be furthered looked into/hammered on is the connection between Millicent and Melania and how Millicent is Melanias lost purpose? And how that ties back into the demigods being offshoots of Marika

[@mattb6616]

And how Melina is wearing the exact same clothing as Millicent and fills the same role as Marika's "offshoot"

[@janaguirre4756]

I think i get the story now. Marika was the Gloam Eyed Queen and when she wanted to take revenge on the hornsent, she started the god hunt and took "gods" away from the hornsent. (This is before gold arose, because one NPC, Ymir, still has their eyes colored purple) She, along with Maliketh, needed to make a new body for Marika and a special thing destined death can do is kill body and soul, so Marika killed the body of the Gloam Eyed Queen and had a new body formed so that Gold and rise. Looking at it this way gives more explanation for godskin placements, they're keeping secrets hidden from us. Next to the first church of Marika, we find the spirit caller cave that we get the swaddling cloth from At the liurnia tower, a noble stands in our way to keep us from the hollow brand from Ranni's body, which might be a secret Marika found and doesn't want people to know about about. In the church of eglay, there's a big snake skin, and if the Godskin have any relation to mesmer, that's another secret, so a noble is placed to keep you away from it. An apostle guards the queen's great sword and another kind just vibes at the windmill village ABSURDLY CLOSE TO THE CAPITAL. And finally, Farum Azula, where they didn't get the memo that Marika wants to die so.......her kids try to defend her with their lives, making sure you can't get to Maliketh or destined death.

[@Ark16]

I like the GS placements theory. Miriam as in the disappearing mage in liurnia?

[@janaguirre4756]

@@Ark16 I'm dumb, i ment Ymir

[@wackamackaphone]

Great video, I really appreciated this! This theory makes the most sense to me of all the ones I've heard. Malenias offsprings, the corpse of Ranni and the casting away of St. Trina all hint at this being the case.

[@thomasbudney5198]

I love this take holy hell!! 🔥 I am still with Smoughtown that Melina is the Gloam-Eyed Queen, but I love the different takes about the Gloam-Eyed Queen

[@pestodabesto]

You can also tie in the Windmill Village as a massive thread here, we have the Godskin Apostle amongst the Celebrants who skin villagers as part of their festival. It is “tacitly tolerated” by the Erdtree because we can point to Marika’s actions as the Gloam Eyed Queen during the Godskin Hunt, and even further back to Marika witnessing the skinning of the shaman for the festival’s origins. We can see that the Celebrants’ eyes glow red when we draw their aggro, mirroring the red rune of death/Marika becoming the GEQ upon witnessing her peoples’ slaughter. The Celebrants’ weapons grant traces of runes when landing attacks, indicating there is something of Marika to be gleaned from this practice. Even the windmills themselves signal a cycle, casting a shadow of perpetuating trauma. You’ve tied this mystery up quite nicely and in good time considering the amount of loose threads Miyazaki has left us, there’s so much left to answer still so I can’t wait to see where the community goes from here. My biggest question now is how Marika gained the power of the Black Flame as a shaman. Did the flame sort of spark within her when she witnessed the Hornsent murdering shaman (the event fractured Marika leaving her empty inside, perhaps enabling her to become a vessel for the God of Death and later the Elden Ring?), or did she have to steal the power from the previous God of Death/the Twinbird, and if so, how? Edit: Been thinking about it and given that the Black Flame sigil resembles a fingerprint, maybe Marika received the Black Flame from Metyr/the Greater Will in a similar way to how the Three Fingers bestow the Frenzied Flame? Marika and the GEQ are both chosen as Empyreans and the Rune of Death is part of the Elden Ring so she couldn’t have been able to slay gods without first being noticed by the GW. Maybe Metyr is wounded not just to sever her connection to the GW, but to prevent further use of the Black Flame and enable Marika to summon the Elden Beast to wield the ER/enact her vision of the Erdtree? Metyr is a mother and the Black Flame allows Marika to birth thr Godskins, the Elden Beast has its golden flame for what it’s worth, I’m just not sure how the god of death before Marika would have lost its power. The lore of the mariners, Helphen, Twinbird, etc. throws a wrench into things. Maybe the Twinbird is an alt-Placidusax in the same way that GEQ is effectively an alt-Marika? Shoutout Zayf the Scholar for the new video on the Windmill Village!

[@sephiroth8517]

GEQ and Marika are the twin birds ya dig lol

[@Nemo12417]

I personally assumed that the Windmill Village celebration is a recent thing, something that is NOT tolerated by the Golden Order, but they do it because they are confident that Morgott can't really enforce the laws that well outside his own walls. I also assumed that Rykkard might have played a role, as he was originally supposed to persecute the pagans of the Lands Between, but ultimately ended up embracing their faith.

[@Vapor.Steve77]

It is likely that the flame that GEQ inherited or found was not black originally. If you read about the dead birds (i dont remember exactly) it says that the flame has lost its color with time.

[@Nemo12417]

@@Vapor.Steve77 if you combine the pale blue ghostflame with the dark red of Destined Death, you get the color of the Tibia Mariners and grave violets.

[@nickdonaldson692]

I was actually just farming celebrants earlier and got the both the normal and blue unaltered festive garb, which have capes. The much more common gold garb has an Erdtree symbol on it, while the blue garb, said to be worn by the maidens at the center of the festival, features the godskin's magic insignia on top with expanded iconography connected on the bottom. I'm sure it means something, but it's hard to say what. In line with this video's theory, it could be that the festival originally represented "Nice" Marika re-asserting herself over the Gloam-Eyed Queen, but then the godskin noble at the top lured the celebrants back to the old ways?

[@inkscript483]

So I am among the many that wanted Gloam-Eyed Queen content from the one and only DLC ... only to find myself presented with a revelation from you that akin to Marika = Radagon, Marika = GEQ. Just brilliant theorycrafting ... and as a Persona fan (and academic besides), your psychoanalytical approach to Elden Ring is exciting ~ It's incredible that academic disciplines like psychoanalysis and archeology can quite faithfully theorycraft from Elden Ring because *that* degree of thought has been put into it by the developers. This incredible depth is why Elden Ring deserved to be nominated for its story. Edit: I'm already planning a playthrough where the Tarnished is a fracture of the slain GEQ, so on behalf of the 200-300 hours that are about to be slain, thank you ~ >ω

[@thecrankyoldman]

Greetings, fellow Persona fan! :) I actually made mention of the series to CT a while back, and promised him my thoughts on my Persona 3R experience. I made the comment regarding that experience here in the comment section :)

[@groovejunkies4436]

Love this video! How awesome is it that after so many years since Elden Ring has been released, we are still piecing things together? Beautiful! This is the kind of game I want to play! 😃

[@merlaak]

I just have one word: VINDICATION. Thank you for this. I’ve felt like I was taking crazy pills for a while now. Like, how can people not see this?!

[@yakanono]

I’m not saying this theory is correct, but if it is: then Maliketh defeating her would just be like Blaidd turning on Ranni. In this case, her assigned Empyrean shadow would be keeping her in check. As Marika, she’d seal destined death to make sure it didn’t happen again. That’s *if*

[@eldenringpvpenthusiast1710]

And like Melania fighting radahn =)

[@ethanol_oats7568]

another parallel indeed

[@mattb6616]

Now it makes sense why the game never says Marika ordered him to fight the Gloam Eyed Queen, or that the GEQ fought the Golden Order, or that the GEQ was killed. It's just: Maliketh defeated her.

[@steamedhamlet]

So much in the DLC is about embracing. "In the embrace of Messmer's flames" Miquella sought to "embrace the whole of it", Romina embraced the scarlet rot and so on. The word embrace is used many times in the DLC and the scadutree is being embraced itself. and in the base game the description for "Black Flame's Protection " says the apostles were all "embraced" by the GEQ. I forget what description (rememberance for Miquella?) That says one refused to be embraced by Miquella. I think it's the shadow tree. The thorns are meant to repell all. And the scadutree avatar gives us Miquella's broken great rune. He was unable to charm and embrace the shadow tree. The shadow of Marika basically. Funnily enough Marika is the devouring mother archetype and GEQ is the kind loving embracing archetype. Marika abandoned that nurturing side. That embracing side of herself to rise to godhood maybe?

[@drjack511]

I love this theory! Best explanation for her pulling the gold threads from the godskin in the trailer. Can't wait to hear about the different representations of her in the statues!

[@theghosty99]

So wait... if Marika shattered herself when she removed the Rune of Death, isn't it possible that the GEQ was also removed along with it? Think about it: The demi-gods are shardbearers. They give you their Great Runes when they are defeated. So why wouldn't the GEQ be attached to the Rune of Death?

[@mattb6616]

Top tier. So glad that more content creators are getting around to this.

[@LoboPal]

The Elden Ring was Radagon's invention, imo. I think you are right that there were two survivors of the Shaman village. My current theory is Marika and GEQ both survived and ended up getting a seed from one of the finger bells. These family trees (intentional metaphor) are the two main ones we know in the base game who eventually were combined with Radagon and Marika's "marriage".

[@547ws45]

Some other lorehound, I'm sorry I can't remember who, commented on how much arboreal imagery there is in the game. And when you talk about trauma leading to birth, they talked about how some trees will produce seeds in abundance, but only under duress, as if a tree is sending seeds far and wide in a last-ditch effort for survival. And that this is what you see when you look at the erdtree seeds that you collect in the game, and the sudden growth of minor erdtrees across the lands. So...that's definitely a motif. I hadn't connected it to Marika's various children, kinda figured they got born the old fashioned way, but there's more mythic poetry in seeing them as picking up aspects of herself. Also, as an educated Christian, the whole conversation around persons and identities is giving me flashbacks to learning about the early arguments in the church about how humanity and divinity could ever coexist in one person. It seems like a literal confusion, but if you have different names, there must be some kind of boundary, right? I had thought this game couldn't be dug into more, but here we are. I start to wonder how much of this was planned and how much is people exploring themselves through the art. Either way, really cool.

[@rainbowkrampus]

I've been saying this for a long time now. It's kind of the only option available given what we've been told. I have my quibbles here and there but overall I think this is spot on. Marika creates clonal daughters that inherent aspects of herself.

[@richie7237]

The theme of duality is littered throughout this game. I think it only makes sense to infer that the game's 'main character' has a dual identity as well. Something I realized while watching this video. In the trailer, we see the two shades of sky when Marika ascends to Godhood. I believe now that this is meant to hint at this duality. One sky, tinted gloam, and the other of gold. Perhaps the betrayal mentioned in the trailer was the betrayal of the Godskins, killing them all after she had them do her bidding. Edit: I thought of more to add to this theory. Just like St. Trina, the Gloam-Eyed Queen was Marika's other self that she rid herself of before ascending to Godhood. Then after ascending, found her consort Radagon to exact her reign (just as Miquella did with Radahn). I also believe the theme of purple is meant to connect St Trina and The Gloam-Eyed Queen in this way.

[@devydev3112]

If a woman is born along with a twin, she is much more likely to have twins if she decides to have kids. Marika has had at least 2 confirmed sets of twins, so her being a twin herself makes a lot of sense.

[@jsubb4680]

This video is excellent. Good stuff man. I've never heard the psychological explanation of this game but I found it particularly convincing.

[@BigBadWolframio]

Yeaaah, the audio quality is much better in this one. Thanks!

[@PopPhyzzle]

Oh my god... in Marika's quest for revenge she hunted down all the avatars of the outer gods and incorporated the runes of each for herself. I believe this was after her and Radaghan's souls and who knows who else were merged in a jar ritual. The god murders were used to make the god skin robes. She became mother to the god skins and directed their cult for an eon. Marika's sentience bubbled to the surface. She took control and discarded the rune of death before ultimately merging the runes.The rune of Death was sealed away in Maliketh and the GEQ's soul in Melina, powerless to take control of her host without her rune. Marika fabricates a story of how Maliketh defeated the GEQ, thus making Marika seem like a hero - a god who presented herself with all the answers. "You will die no more and never cease to be if you follow my Golden Order." She then directed the genocide of the hornsent who had previously tortured her kin into unrecognizable masses of souls and flesh. After the appalling crime was carried out she veiled the shadow tree to hide her past, deeds, and a rival history of faith. And i think the land of the Shadow Tree, the land of death, was separated from this world by sealing the rune of death. And the most fucked up part of it all? A cult leader is hardly a queen right? She was the sanctified queen of the hornsent herself after the first successful jar saint ritual was actualized by her As the GEQ Placidusax was her Elden Lord. And Placidusax got the idea of damning Bayle and his descendants through Dragon Communion rituals from her. Rykard later developed his own interpretation of this ritual to "become familyyyyyyyyyyyy-" by devouring the strong based on this more primitive version. .

[@DakkaBert]

it all wraps up neatly doesn't it

[@Daloofus]

I really like this theory but is there any clues or evidence Marika is a successful Jar Saint?

[@PopPhyzzle]

@@Daloofus I think the main clue is that the hornsent didn't have a successful jar saint. They're all marred by failure in every reference to the practice. Additionally an ideal jar saint attempt is said to involve a shaman as the host core. Marika was a Shaman. She evidently left her village for a time for an unstated reason, and, returned to pay her respects to her grandmother/matriarch. Why did she leave? My theory is that she was stewing in a jar. My above statements open the possibility up in the first place. What almost confirms it is that there were at least several people in Marika's body, or rather, the body Marika resides in. Radaghan is seen to physically be in the same body. But... what if there were more originally? The main clue here are her "children". Half of them have the ability to surrender their body to an element of an outer god outright: those born of Radaghan and Marika. Miquella and Malenia have monstrously divine power. I believe those 2 act as evidence Marika was combined with a body that had an affinity for communing with outer gods: the fire giants. Radaghan was born of the flesh of the fire giants that was put into the jar with her. Limited by the size of Marika's Numen body Radaghan arose as an original consciousness. Melina and Messimer both have visions of fire and strawberry blonde/red hair respectively signifying how they're direct offspring of Radaghan and Marika (or... Radaghan and the GEQ). But Melina has the soul of the GEQ sealed in her eye. She is a part of asexually budded flesh from Marika. There are parallels to Malenia who budded her own offspring. Those offspring bear aspects of the parents element. So perhaps the same rule applies to Marika's children. Melina has an affinity for Destined Death so only she can bear it's soul. Meaning the soul of the GEQ was once manifest in Marika's body. True death was still manifest during the purge of the hornsent lest none of the victims could have actually died. She discarded the GEQ like Miquella discarded St. Trina when she had finished her genocide and carried out her crucible ascension to god hood. She needed the identity of the GEQ to pretend to be the promised saint queen of the hornsent so she would be in a position to utterly betray them from the most advantageous position. So we're up to 3 different souls in one body. But the hornsent themselves were used in the jar saint ritual. Mohg and Morgott resemble the curse blade ascetics to a T. We know that failed ascetics who themselves could not ascend to god hood were used as superior crafting material in the jar ritual as they had expertly trained bodies. Their failure to achieve god hood parallels Mohg and Morgott not becoming Imperians. Once Marika hatched she probably obtained the other runes to craft the elden ring by killing the other outer god avatars with Destined Death under the guise of the GEQ (perhaps under the instruction of the Great Serpant we see in Bonnie Village. In her time of need the serpent parallels Satan coming to Eve in Eden tempting her with sin, a plan, and a promise to become a true god) "undergo the trial of the jar, use me as flesh." The Great Serpent could survive incredible bodily harm as demonstrated by Rykard so it's vitality got Marika to the other side of the ritual. The soul of the GEQ came from that snake. Which is why the GEQ's children have the unnatural physiology of serpents. This jar making event of combining hornsent ascetics, fire giants, great serpents, and a Numen tree shaman was the perfect storm to create a truly powerful being. Placidusax himself bowed to this entity and became the first Elden Lord. The consort of the GEQ.

[@DannyDavis-f8x]

🤯

[@Real_LiamOBryan]

@@Daloofus Also, Marika and Radagon seem like breaking jars at the end of the base game. FromSoft likes to be overly literal with their imaginations of things (e.g., insight in Bloodborne being eyes on the inside). They are the VESSEL of the Elden Ring. This also seems to be the implication of nobody but Marika being left in Marika's village. Why did she, alone, survive? "Queen Marika is the vessel of the Elden Ring, carrier of its vision. A god, in truth." --Enia

[@Luxxxor]

Even with bad audio your videos are still good

[@explodingtoads]

Another very cool take. Loving your videos dude!

[@Elden_dorK]

I'm picking up what you're putting down! Man, that's a lot of thematic echoes to try and digest o.O

[@YoungMatt81]

I'm stuck between enjoying listening to the lore and ppl fitting pieces together while also not caring because i don't think there exists a cohesive storyline that will provide full answers. The lack of a fully fleshed out story takes the wind out of my sails when it comes to investigating it on my own

[@CommanderNixon]

FS Dev: "I have a little bit of space over here, any ideas what I should do with it?" Miyazaki: "Put a fuckin' snake corpse there." FS Dev: "Oh! Is there going to be some sort of story or idea behind it?" Miyazaki: "Nah I just wanna fuck with everyone."

[@westonlipka6045]

I think it's important to explore the themes surrounding the snake in Bonnie Village, and its connection to religious imagery. In a somewhat controversial version of what happened in the garden of Eden, known as the "Serpent Seed", a snake *seduces* Eve and the result of their union was Cain, and people destined for damnation (demons, essentially). Meanwhile, Adam's children were destined for eternal life. Marika and Radagon might symbolize both Eve and Adam, while the Gloam Eyed Queen may symbolize Lilith. If Eve and Adam are fused together in Elden Ring, it wouldn't be crazy to think that Lilith was fused as well, all into one being (like what the Hornsent were doing to people in jars). Marika's children, to me, seem to be aspects (or previously fused people) splitting off of her, like saplings falling off a tree and planting themselves to create new trees. Marika and Radagon are capable of mating, like a form of asexual reproduction, like budding, and instead of creating something new, their children are cast-off aspects of themselves. Going back to the Christian imagery, since all Eve's children were destined for damnation, or cursed essentially, this would explain why all of Marika's children are cursed in some way. What I think may be suggested, is that this snake (the younger God-devouring serpent) manipulated Marika by promising her power, in exchange for the death of the gods. If we liken the snake to Satan, or Loki from Norse mythology, both these gods are enemies of God(s), and so would have that motive. Both Marika and the snake get their revenge. In exchange, Marika would bear the snake's child - Messmer (Cain). Cain would kill his brother and then be cursed by God, banished to his own realm where he creates his own city, similar to how we find Messmer. Miquella casts away his love in a pit of death (St. Trina) and she is like a whole different person. I think the Gloam-Eyed Queen might be the aspect of Malenia that sided with the serpent, whose children are the godskins; Marika splits this aspect from herself and then slays it/her. This would also explain Marika's later fear and abandonment of Messmer, due to his connection the the snake and the gloam-eyed queen, the curse that it bears, and Messmer being spawned from the desire to kill the gods - which Marika herself becomes. I think the snake manipulating her in exchange for revenge and power is the "seduction" and turning her back against the Hornsent (and possibly the Gloam-Eyed Queen) is the Betrayal from which Gold arose. The Elden Beast is found at the top of the spiraling tower constructed from the bodies of thousands of Hornsent. The bottom, fracturing souls and individuals. The top, all fused together in the divine crucible, is saint, or godhood. Godhood is achieved through the fusing of thousands of souls, like Marika in the flesh jars. Then, casting off of the undesirable parts while keeping the desirable ones, creates a true god - Marika's children are her cast off parts, many of which she abandons and slays (the mausoleum demigods) and Miquella casts off parts of themselves to achieve godhood as well.

[@DakkaBert]

since the DLC ive bought the theory that marika and radagon are the result of a successful jar ritual, melding people together to create a "saint". It follows perfectly, then, that a third personality of marika emerged. Radagon is dedicated to the golden order, GEQ is opposed, and marika is caught in the middle. Ive also seen another creator, scum mage infa, postulate that ranni is a piece of marika that escaped godhood's prison, which ties in perfectly with your idea that all her children were fractures of herself. Edit: in fact i had always wondered how GEQ had the power of destined death at all, and why plucking it from the elden ring and sealing it away denied it from her, its because GEQ was also in posession of the elden ring! wow, how did we not realize this sooner, it makes perfect sense!

[@KitsuneShapeShifter]

Ive been shouting for years that Marika and GEQ are twins! EDIT: halfway through, im seeing the picture now!!

[@Vapor.Steve77]

It is very likely that the gloam eyed queen was to Marika, what St. Trina is to Miquella. At the same time. I think she´s been reborn as Melina. Melina says she´s not born from a mother. But that she was born at the erdtree. She doesn´t seem to have her memories right. And her body is burned and the capital is full of ashes. I mean a lot of characters seemed to be reborn. In the end radagon had the rune of the unborn. Maybe they used it o Melina / gloam eyed queen.

[@DakkaBert]

makes perfect sense as well. Marika sealed way destined death and "killed" the GEQ which is why melina is now "burned and bodiless" and "lost her purpose long ago"

[@NicDotNic]

Would that still make her and Messmer siblings? Because the description of Messmer's Kindling states "Messmer, much like his younger sister, bore a vision of fire." And the only candidate who fits that description would be Melina, implying that she is the daughter of Marika.

[@Vapor.Steve77]

@@NicDotNic "bore a vision of fire" is pretty much what the GEQ had in mind with the god slaying flame. I get what your saying but this is elden ring. The GEQ is not Melina, Melina was reborn, in one of the thousand reborn methods in elden ring. Maybe they used a larval tear. Maybe the put her on a jar at the foot of the erdtree. Remember "all things can be conjoined, come let us learn together"

[@TheSolarium18]

Radagon is to Marika what St Trina is for Miquella…. Don’t make things more complicated than they are

[@huehue3592]

the alternate selves of empyrians are usually the opposite gender, like radagon and marika or st trina and miquela

[@dawnyzero0]

I like this idea. Marika & the Gloam Eyed Queen being 2 entities in one body (well, 3 cause Radagon) But, it makes me wonder if someone is to ascend to godhood, they HAVE to abandon part of themselves like Miquella (except he took it too far). So what if GEQ is the abandoned part of Marika at the Gates of Divinity? Hence the pile of skin Marika plucks the golden threads/hair(?) out of.

[@dh7367]

My theory is like Radagon, the Gloam eyed Queen was originally a part Marika that she discard and it gained a sense of self. I think the Gloam Eyed Queen represents Marika's sense of motherhood and sense of need to cause death, the gloam eyed queen nurtures her children while Marika discards her children if they don't further her goals and Markia became a god built on the death of her people and the hornsent so she removed the part of herselt that caused all that death. Also I believe the godslayer greatsword has a design element most overlook, it has a spiral shaped coiling blade that unwinds at the tip, just like the hornsent spiral imagery and its shape also looks like 2 coiling snakes coated in flame separating from each other just like Marika separated the Gloam Eyed queen and Radagon who I believe is the manifested persona of her sense of order.

[@CthulhuTheory]

Reposting my comment from the original video: I think there’s a lot of merit to this. Most of the outer gods don’t really seem to have a presence until after Marika. This, combined with the revelation that her people were all shoved into jars as part of the hornsent ritual, suggests to me that Marika would be the source of these as we know them in the lands between and their existence as such is made possible by that jar ritual itself. It’s now my firm belief that Marika was created, or perhaps more accurately evolved, in a jar as part of these rituals, and that everything we see in the world would have been shoved into that jar as part of her mixture and she was the only Shaman capable of bringing it to order, which is why the Greater Will chose her to take over and end the chaotic crucible era. All roads do point to Marika and this jar process. Imagine: 1 part death bird, 1 part snake (accidentally the abyssal serpent) 1 part fire giant, 1 part follower of the scarlet bud, 1 part blood fiend, And more… Suddenly we have a mix that explains Radagon and his embarrassment over his hair and the association with the fire giants. The fire giants provide context for messmers flame, and doubly so with the corrupting influence of the abyssal serpent. The god of rot manifesting itself in one of her children. The formless mother and its affinity for mohg, and even morgott (despite his attempts to suppress it) The GEQ being born of the mix of the flame within from the fire giant and the death birds… (or something along those lines) And all of this made possible by her slowly shedding these amalgamated elements of her torturous creation as a jar saint/empyrean. I like to think of the body she pulls the threads from as the first god… she’s taking the ring for herself… the threads are the more chaotic and wavy portions of the original ring, and she’s taking her first step to convert them into the rigid lattice that would later be associated with radagon… Okay enough ranting. Great video

[@nox9444]

i think you can take that even further to say that marika sought to remove all of those aspects that made her a god without losing her godhood. she thought she could pick and choose what she could keep from the jar ritual, but as we see the outer gods pretty much all affect her offspring in some way (except for frenzied flame). in a way, it’s about trauma. part of the healing from trauma comes with accepting that part of you that’s been affected by the trauma. marika thought she didn’t have to do that because she was a god.

[@blubsblobs]

I got the Feeling that the Scarlet Bud (saint) and the bloodfiend both discovertt the outer good through the suffering that came with the genocid of Marika / messmer

[@xhinoteque]

I think if Miquella had to get rid of St. Trina, why not Marika had to do the same with the Gloam-eyed Queen? Miquella took the body of Mogh to bring Radahn back., and we know Marika took Godfrey and Radagon as consorts, but Marika was Radgon, which this fact fool everyone. We see Miquella hugging Radahn at second phase, but he looks like a spirit possessing his body. Perhaps Marika is doing something similar with Radagon and Radagon is just claiming his body back. Marika is a god, but even gods need to enforce their supremacy in the material world somehow, and this facts came to face Miquella, as their failures with the Malenia, the Haligtree, and Godwyn became evident, and the only path to godhood was his mother walked.

[@curtisfarley6558]

Radagon is merica. Radagon created the physical world and merica is like its spirit. They are the blending of the gnostic concepts of the demiurge and sophia.

[@KaunPrime]

@@curtisfarley6558 From what I know and understand, that isnt exactly correct. The Greater Will gave Merika godhood, and that godhood came from Radagon. Radagon acted as the anchor of her godhood, and is why he survived when she died from the attack by The Greater Will. It is supported in this with what Miquella did. They need a host body to govern from, Radahn for Miquella. They are disembodied otherwise, thus requiring a unity of two souls in the same form, but one of them being more prominent over the other, Miquella over Radahn, Merika over Radagon. But they all have their times of control overall. Thus is how they could act independently too. Miquella saw that independence as why there were failings in The Lands Between, thus he sought a consort strong enough to overcome all others, Radahn, but he needed him to be susceptible to Miquella's charm, to be completely controlled by him to remove that independence in Radahn, as before Radahn rejected Miquella's call.

[@insanergamer]

Just as miquella abandoned his other half in the quest for godhood, marika may have abandoned the gloam eyed queen in hers. Maybe she sealed her within melina, like she sealed the abyssal serpent within messmer... behind their eye, with different seals, for different gods

[@shiftybat7318]

It's been speculated that Melina is a cast-off portion of Marika, like St. Trina with Miquella, and as such could be the GEQ part of her, but what if it was simpler than that? Why does a Japanese game have every character pronounce it "Mair-ih-kah" and not "Mah-ree-kah" as would be in Japanese, where the vowels and syllabic sounds never change word-to-word? Is Marika perhaps representative of 'MERICA - the World Police, F-ing S up everywhere they pretend to help? Is she just an avatar of American imperialism, using her might to decide what is best for Everyone and in the process creating nothing but turmoil? You decide.

[@maxsmith8475]

Based on having the pots in shadow and their tomb, I thought the game had been implying that marika was created by the hornsent as they attempted to create a new god, mixing her parts, an empyrean, with parts of other people and perhaps even giant body parts, like a witches brew. “Flesh of the empyrean to meld it, humans as a medium and the hair of a giant for strength.” But I don’t think the hornsent expected marika to be able to control and split off the constituent parts that had been merged with her in her “crucible”/ pot, nor that her connection to the fingers, a part of “the great” would allow her to control the power of The Crucible and reshape it. I don’t know if I agree that marika and radagon were “originally” one being before being put in the pot, but the “Marika” that emerged most certainly was one being that contained the two personalities, and all the children after that may represent their inability to cope/ deal with their identity as a merged being that simultaneously is like everything else in the world (with bits and pieces of the orders and people/ animals/ spirits that wander the land) and yet is also the god that does not wish to be like everything else, and probably fears becoming something else.

[@wadefraser2289]

That was a great watch Thank you!

[@reiswoodard6630]

It was crazy when I randomly found this

[@mukkah]

16:04 BIGGEST lore drop of the vid, 💯 ~a random canadian subscriber dude

[@robocoontv3245]

Miquella and Malenia are no opposites in my opinion. Malenia is only rotting because she, with the help of her brother, are fighting against it. If you embrace the scarlett rot like Romina is doing, then you become something "beautiful". Just my feeling. Great Video and thx for that. Always searching for other ideas as I do lore videos as well but in german. Keep on

[@eldenringpvpenthusiast1710]

I agree, but I think it also has to do with the pests being like her unwanted children, I don't think she likes being their god

[@EdwardPerez-x1g]

Me to my wife: “I learned twins run on the maternal side and since Marika had 2 sets of twins, she could be a twin.” My wife: “Radagon”

[@JKurayami]

I think I get some of it now. The beast is the Elden Ring. So if Marika Summoned it in the SotE trailer, which many are saying; then The runes all existed before the Elden Ring did. The RING is Order, a circle. The Beast took the Runes into itself and became the Elden Ring. The symbol in Farum Azula is not , "The Farum Azula Elden Ring." Or whatever, it's just the symbol of all of the runes. Marika killed all of the pre-existing Gods / Great Rune holders. Each Outer God had their power symbolized by a great rune. Marika and her Consort Godfrey go along with the Hornsent's plan to make all things into one. In that time Marika split herself like Miquella and St. Trina, to be Life and Death. GEC is born and hunts the Gods to help Marika Unite the Runes. It's why the flames could " Kill Gods." The Divine Beast is given up as sacrifice from the Hornsent. So all can become one. The reason the Elden Beast is summoned by Marika is because she has the last bit of great runes the Greater Will needed to make them all ordered. Grace and life and holiness is a gift from Marika herself and her ability to tune spirits. She gave gold / life without order at her shaman village. Meaning without the Greater Will. The Golden Order is Golden because Marika is Golden, not because the Greater Will is golden and holy. It just wants complete and total order, like a dickhead. At some point Marika realized the GW is an uncaring thing. Rennala and Radagan's Daughter Ranni is now chosen to become the new God. Marika who houses the ER will surely have to die for this to happen, if she dies then she cannot stop the GW. She removes the grace from Godwyn and his northern humany people and sends them away so she can summon them back after they go out and die. This takes a long time, in that time Radagon is summoned back because two are needed for the Rune shit to work for some reason. It's why there are still Godskins all over still. Maliketh is sent to take the Rune of Death and he seals it within his sword. Marika conspires with Ranni which is how pieces of Maliketh's sword were able to be broken off. Radagon just thinks all is going good, he and Marika are one body. Then she starts telling him some shit like , " You're not me, you're not a god." Then one day starts trying to break the Elden Ring. Not sure how a hammer breaks something that's clearly mostly intact and still in your body, but whatever.

[@RootTangle]

This is a really thought provoking video, you did incredible in laying it all out. A hypothesis I randomly thought of while digesting this, is if Miquella had to divest himself of his flesh (ie St Trina being an embodiment of his love) Marika had to have done the same, yes? Radagon is speculated to be the embodiment of her loyalty to the Elden Ring or whatever, but what if the Gloam Eyed Queen was her rage/desire for revenge against the hornsent/former or outer gods? What dictates which emotions can be cast aside when divesting oneself? I feel like it could be believable to consider oneself a “child” of someone who brought you into life, and Melina and Marika have similar features (Numen features?). Idk just some random shower thoughts as the video rolls!

[@CenteredTarnished]

I think you are exactly right. Miquella abandons many things, fears, doubts, flesh, etc. I suspect Marika did the same. Miquella's final cross in the tower reads "I abandon here all my fears"..... well, if death was a fear or Marika's I would suspect this is the place she abandoned the GEQ aspect of herself. Fear and terror left in the shadow. From a psychological perspective, it's up to the individual which aspects they want to suppress in their shadow. For example, many men will suppress emotions of caring and vulnerability while women will tend to suppress things like assertion. It all depends on what they want the world to see them as.

[@DaisyAzuras]

This is a pretty good essay it points out some pretty obvious revelations even though they have yet to be confirmed, but they seem very promising

[@sillypinkewe]

Brilliant deductions 👏 👏 👏 I love this channel!

[@Bori.1776]

I’m sold.

[@Billyboy597]

This is a great video. The GEQ could be Marika's mother and Radagon could be Marika's twin. Look forward to your next video But, your thesis on comparing character story arcs is great. The analysis of writing techniques in general can be helpful. Like, Chekhov's Gun, where a theme is introduced early and is later tired back into the plot as an important element. Like the "lion" symbol for the Hornsent and Godfrey. It sets up Radahn as a "golden lion" at the end of the DLC.

[@krakoa942]

Great vid, lots to think about! I did not notice where the snakeskin near Bonny Village was looking, I definitely agree that has something to do with the origins of the GEQ and probably Marika too. One disagreement: I don't think the statues in the Rauh ruins can be Marika, because the timeline doesn't add up. The Rauh ruins seem to be from a time before the Hornsent culture was formed, and Marika used a Hornsent gate to become a god (given Miquella's arc and the story trailer, I think she definitely became a god using the Hornsent gate). The ruins in the Lands of Shadow all appear much older than the Hornsent culture, and the Hornsent seem to have built some of their settlements around the ruins. There are lots of clues around the Rauh ruins that point towards an ancient faith that focused on plant life and the crucible, and the Church of the Bud appears to be a recent attempt to revive or reincorporate that faith. Some of the pests (who have become servants of the Church of the Bud) are worshipping the female statues in the ruins, so this is probably a god associated with plant life. Marika also being a female god associated with trees does make it seem likely she's associated with the Rauh statues, but I don't think they're the same person. Maybe this was a god that she took her powers from, or merged with when she used the divine gate? I don't have a great theory for what's up with the statue in Farum Azula, but I think it's possible that statue was erected long after Farum Azula fell into ruin. Maybe it's Marika and maybe it isn't, but either way I think the age of Placidusax came long before Marika's reign and featured a different god. That's because dragons appear to be the most ancient of all creatures, so Marika being their god also doesn't make sense for the timeline.

[@miquando5033]

So ultimately, how was the Scadutree healed? How was Marika's Shadow healed and reunited with her?

[@CenteredTarnished]

@@miquando5033 I think for Marika’s personal journey, defeating Maliketh and establishing death in the world seems to close her character arch. IMO the rune of death looks like a person on a cross (opposite of Marika’s pose), which tells me she is now “whole”. BUT the Shadow lands seem to be a collective shadow, with outer gods and layers of trauma from everyone. That seems to be Miquella’s campaign- to embrace the whole of it. He is very much a Jesus archetype. Dying on the cross (every time he divests something, there’s his blood and his cross), to take away others’ sins. Marika heals herself, Miquella heals the world. Just my opinion of course

[@DonutSwordsman]

Kate the Kind got me here. We need a collab video my man!

[@empyrealcultist1992]

Finally someone said it, about frigging time 😂

[@mocubaldo7476]

Literally one of the quest miquella discarded his other half just like his mother

[@fierygamingzilla69]

Plasidusax was called elden Lord though wouldn't that imply that his consort controlled the elden ring

[@cardgameenjoyer7446]

The girl surrounded by the wolves is probably geq, there is an area with too many wolves in the shadowland

[@Ugglehjelm]

16:14 That fits so well!

[@kingbaka3180]

The gloom eyed “Queen” “Queen Marika”

[@Chatisthisrealquestionmark]

anyone: aspects. me, a elden ring fan: aspects of the crucible.

[@llHippiell]

I still believe that the player tarnished is a reassurected child of marika, due to the cinematic intro sounding like a wondering mosolieum

[@saiuan4562]

Great stuff. I have always believed that Marika was the gloam eyed queen all along, so it's refreshing to see someone sharing that belief. Fun fact: godwyn is called the prince of death. I assume that it means his mother (Marika), is the queen of death. I do not think that is a coincidence. What do you think?

[@vNTCv]

I believe you are correct. The Hornsent were attempting to blend various aspects together to create the perfect being, a saint, or what would be called today an empyrean. I also believe that the expulsion of the aspect of death, the gloam eyed queen, was the betrayal the hornsent hate Marika for since with the removal of death the crucible would cease to function and life would no longer blend into one

[@edwardpreston9592]

This also explains the Misbegotten. They always seemed fabricated to me and I long wondered WHY they were called Misbegotten, but now I know :They were the failures in the Hornsent experiments/rituals.

[@nikkifuryplaylists6106]

Smough got us curiouse bout the snek😂

[@insanergamer]

This was the first time I've heard GRRM's voice, and I can't say I'm surprised

[@LoboPal]

Also, account for that Marika and GEQ are a reflection of the Seelie and Unseelie courts.

[@seanrilian]

My theory between Marika and thr Gloam-Eyed Queen is similar. Though i like to look at Shaman village, or rather the fact that Shaman was an indirect/inaccurate translation of Miko, the japanese word/title for shrine maidens. Shrine maidens' purpose was to attend to the shrines that gave reverence to the spirirts and ancestors. I theorize that the shamans were raised to become attendents of the GEQ, and that the GEQ may have at one point been okay with and perhaps even a part of the hornsent society and rituals. But when Marika wound up as either a victim to the jarification or sinply the last living shaman, she convinced the GEQ to turn against the hornsent, that those rituals were beyond qrotesque and evil. GEQ was seduced by Marika, and together they concocted how to take down the gods of the hornsent, or at the very least break the connection the hornsent had to their gods. I believe that GEQ and Marika were intimate and that Messmer and Melina were their children. Eventually Marika realized the potential for power that existed at the end of the road that she and GEQ were on, and betrayed her because she either wanted the power for herself alone, or did not trust GEQ to not have a similar thought.

[@nuclearthrone2497]

Marika birthing a child is basically getting rid of one of her aspects that she gained before when she was melded together in the jar becoming a god

[@PopPhyzzle]

How utterly sick would it be if: 1. Upon releasing the rune of death from Maliketh, you put the needle in and remove the Frenzied Flame from your soul after Melina dumps you if she came back in some capacity as the revived aspect of the Gloam Eyed Queen anyway? 2. The God Skin black flame incantations returned to their former glory as true Destined Death incantations ince she returns?

[@MAGUS-666]

My build would immediately change to accommodate whatever Destined Death and the og Black Flame require. Throwing pulsing purple flames with the ability to deal heavy arcane, magic, holy, fire, and cold damage all at once. The true power of the Black Flame of Destined Death!

[@dixnyomouff6982]

@@MAGUS-666fuck that

[@Jay_Z33]

Amazing analysis. Dots connecting masterpiece!! Thank you. But one thing is still unclear to me - how does Radagon fit this concept? Did he replace GEQ’s personality in the process of Marika trying to repress unpleasant memories of the horrors she brought upon the Land of Shadow? He seems like a direct opposite of GEQ’s chaos as he is pursuing perfection… What do you think?

[@RicAdbur]

I'm not sure I believe that Marika created the Golden Order at all. It always seems to be associated with the Radagon persona, and the game seems to make an intentional distinction between the Erdtree and the Golden Order, in that the Golden Order seems to be a more strict and fundamentalist way of worshipping Marika and the Erdtree, which seems to imply that there was previously a looser and more relaxed way.

[@DjDolHaus86]

I'm still convinced that the Gloam Eyed Queen is the other aspect of Melina, the other child of Marika's union with the great serpent in the land of shadow along with Mesmer. She left Mesmer behind to continue her vengeance on the land of shadow and burying her past while Melina/GEQ was to be the tip of her spear in wiping out the old gods of the lands between (her opposition to ultimate power). Once the deed was done she was put down by Maliketh before she became too powerful to stop and sealed away. Her return as Melina was likely brought about by Mohg under the influence of Miquella (the clue being Varre being first to greet us on our emergence). This is Miquellas plan B after his ascendance was stalled by Malenia not being powerful enough to put Radahn down after Ranni had Godwyn (his first choice for consort) killed, the plan was that the tarnished would put down any opposition to Miquellas ascent and get rid of Melina/GEQ before being felled by his chosen consort Radahn. This is the cycle of power, using pawns to clear the board and then sacrificing them to protect the monarch.

[@sk8legendz]

The original description for the apostle robes imply that it was DemiGod skin, they used so between that and the wandering mausoleums i think the GEQ god hunt was to sacrifice amarikas unwanted kids

[@been_rly_n2_paragliding_lately]

I agree with the premise that the DLC didn't include GEQ content because the devs said everything they wanted to say about her in the base game. But I think the answer is the most obvious one... it's Melina. Messmer really sealed the deal on this for me. His abyssal serpent behind his eye, sealed by grace, and unleashed when he breaks the seal. When we trigger the frenzied flame ending, we sever whatever force was sealing the aspect of the GEQ within Melina, be it grace or something else. All of Marika's children are cursed. Many have some form of alter ego, including Marika herself. So would the aspect of the GEQ within Melina be a curse or an alter ego, a combination of the 2? Idk, but if it's something that needs to be sealed away, it sounds more like a bad thing. I could easily believe someone so closely connected to Destined Death could go apeshit and want to kill many things. But then again, I could also see that same person thinking that bestowing Destined Death upon someone is actually a good thing, a sort of blessing in disguise - or at the very least not view it as a bad thing. Either way it could be a problem for Marika. Being Messmer's sister, being closely connected to him, and being around when the crucible is still very much a big thing brings the serpent motif and serpentine nature of the Godskin apostles into the equation somehow - though admittedly that is the weakest area of the theory. Her eye tattoo looking like a beast claw, possibly representing her defeat by Maliketh. Though why you'd want something that would possibly remind someone of thing you're supposed to be sealing away, idk. Obviously it isn't perfect, but I think the good points outweigh the bad. But those are just my general thoughts. But if it's not Melina, your explanation is the next best imo. Honestly I really wanted the GEQ to be Marika's twin. I even thought they might be doing a play on words with Godskin also meaning "God's Kin". But nope. Ngl, I'm still pretty disappointed we got nothing about the GEQ in the dlc, and next to nothing about Godwyn.

[@Turner6277]

@@been_rly_n2_paragliding_lately personally I think it's more likely melina inherited marika gloam eye, but when death was sealed so was it . If the elden ring was part of marika. Once death was taken from it and sealed away it would make sense it was sealed from melina as well. The same way melina lost her gold eye when the golden order fell. Chatgpt overlords agrees that it's more likely melina is associated rather than directly is the GEQ

[@1SilverVixen1]

Just wanted to mention that the mark over her eye looks a lot more like a deathbird talon than a beast claw imo, which connects her even more to destined death!

[@Turner6277]

@@1SilverVixen1 problem with deathbirds is there feet and hands don't really look like talons and they are 4 apendages not 3

[@1SilverVixen1]

@@Turner6277 Gravebirds, then perhaps? Those also have a connotation to death. Melina's eye mark just looks much more bird-like than beastial to me.

[@Turner6277]

@@1SilverVixen1 Gravebirds makes more sense to me. However from what iv seen the mark is unique.

[@EBDeveloper]

flame of frenzy is definitely pollen clouds.. because ragweed pollen can make your eyes burn, and make you frustrated to the point of frenzy. Ask anyone with bad allergies, they will agree.

[@sebastienhonorine4024]

Howdy there I have 2 theories about Melina and Messmer: 1) Marika was present during the Gloomed eyes queen Reign. As a saint or Emperyan she had Radagon and had twin during the reign. Before the great betrayal, l think Messmer And Melina has been arround the GEQ. They have been close that the GYQ sealed some of her power in the left Eyes of Melina(this is not a grace seal). And that is why Messmer might has been ordered by marika to burn to death Melina, and then Marika had denough and took power etc... 2) Radagon had Messmer and Melina with the GEQ. and Radagon killed the GEQ. In the video for the DLC when "Marika" do the position in Front of the gates after taking grace from the corps she has a lack of upper woman part that seems odd to me. Thas is why messmer looks pale and has snakes (abyssal in the right) and Melina has the GEQ in her left. After taking power Marika act like the mother of them both but has no interrest and don't care about them. Messmer still has burned his litle sister down in Marika name and Marika disposed of him in the Land of Shadow after. Radagon is Marika Marika is Radagon. They believe to be hers. They kinda are but not like they think they are.

[@arianightrose4792]

I like the idea merika and the gloam eyed queen were the same as her and radagon. And instead of splitting off as radagon did for a time merika killed her other half the gloam eyed queen. But she didn't stay dead not entirely ranni and godwyn are proof that death can be avoided in some seance, perhaps she died in body alone and her soul remained and got to rikard or perhaps menina was the gloam eyed queen reborn but changed by merika to not remember her past. It is only if we do the frenzy ending and Melina lives that the gloam eye comes out.

[@mocubaldo7476]

Thank you they were the same being been sayin this the whole time

[@purpleguy3000]

I think this puts together a bit about Maliketh. As Marika's shadow he not only weilds destined death, but seals it after the night of the black knives. This would mean that death is Marika's shadow until the night of the black knives when death is sealed away. Therefore Marika likely used death as a weapon of vengeance until that power was used against her children, at which point she realises her vulnerability and seals it away out of fear. That fear is what then drives her to seal away Messmer and create the Golden Order, because without death the Erdtree no longer works and now pure faith is needed to keep her Godhood going.

[@KaunPrime]

So essentially it would appear the Gloam Eyed Queen was Marika before the Golden Order. She used it as a weapon and at some point it was used against her / her family, which made her afraid of it, and so she had Maliketh lock it away to keep it from being able to harm her or her children, as it was the only weapon directly able to do so. Eventually Ranni abused that very fact with the Night of the Black Knives. That ends up making quite abit of sense. Perhaps what made the Greater Will decided to merge Marika and Radagon into godhood directly was because Marika as the Gloam Eyed Queen, created order, but that method eventually became unstable due to the risk against herself. So she began the Golden Order as an alternate means to maintain order, and thus favor from The Greater Will, in order to keep her godhood intact. My only question after that line of thought becomes, who is the Grandmother, because it portrays Marika as either worshipping or being afraid of her, and never being the same after the encounter.

[@mattb6616]

You'd think Ranni's shadow being a dog with cold powers to reflect her dark moon and ice witch powers and Marika's shadow being an edgelord ultra goth death dog would be a bigger clue

[@PeteQuaint]

I wonder if the inquisitors are the "gods" for the god hunt. They have tangled horns that signify divinity (in their culture), they use barbs based incantations which almost look like rune arcs, they are worshiped upon their deaths as tutelary deities, their internal names are "GodMan____", and they have rags covering their faces and most parts of their bodies - as if to cover huge wounds (maybe just part of their ascetic practice, but strange that the curseblades and the actual deities didn't!) If Marika and GEQ are rival empyreans, they logically would have been against the power of the age - the Hornsent "gods". GEQ's defeat by Maliketh might be the reason why Marika was embraced by the Hornsent at first, until the crusade.

[@thecrankyoldman]

Actually expected you to talk a little about D & D, as an example of the micro/macro and spiralling example. There are a few things I'm still scratching my head over. It seems there is a chance that Marika was jarred herself, and she may have been the only surviving one. Which would explain the path of seduction and betrayal much easier, as she would have been able to perform her acts from a position of 'power'. If she was a jar, you'd also have another micro/macro example of the shattering. I think there is a chance that the snake-skin we see, might have been Messmer's. As he, too, would have had to see the jarring of his people with his own eyes in order to have such hatred for the hornsent. It would also explain the 'O mother' gesture. I'm not fully on board with this theory yet. I'm also still not able to let go of the whole, the GEQ represents Nyx, where Nyx and snakes go hand in hand. So, both situations make sense to me. And, I'm a man of my word, and I told you I'd let you know about my Persona 3 reload experience. I finished the game a while back, and the game's story actually explained the story of Elden Ring pretty spot on. From the use of Pharos as the guiding light, the use of Castor & Pollux (similar to D & D) with a nod to their mother Leda, death, shadows, the unconscious aka. the Tartarus, the role of the night mother, the struggle of overcoming a traumatic event, etc. I won't spoil the ending of the game or key events, unless you ask, of course. But, there is a teacher in that game, Mr. Edogawa, and I think you'll enjoy this guy's lectures as much as I do. There is a playlist of his clips on KZbin. This man is basically the embodiment of GRRM and Miyazki. Sadly, they're mainly PS2 clips, I wish they had the Persona 3 Reload version. Also, I mentioned Persona5R to you months ago, well... I made the comparison to you that one of the main characters of that game, Sumire, and how she struggled with the death of her sister. Well, that same game also features a character called Dr. Takuto Maruki. This man has undergone his own traumatic event, but when he meets Sumire, he wants to change the world, and basically wants to perform a Miquella. Which is to take pain and suffering away from the world. Currently, I'm playing through Shin Megami Tensei 3, from that same studio, and oh boy... Does it hit all the exact same notes. Post apocalyptic setting where humans have fucked the world up, and demons are currently running the show. You survived the hard reset, you become a demi-human due to that whole situation and end up going on the Sophia's journey, which will result in similar endings like Elden Ring. A world where demons are given the power but blow it up completely, a world where only the strongest demons survive, a world where everybody lives in solitude, recreate the world but give the power back to humans, and to self-sacrifice where you become the new ruling god. Anyway, hope you're doing well! And excellent work on the last few videos. I've enjoyed them!

[@Knirrax]

Another thing that lends credence to this theory is the fe fact that St. Treena, Miquillas other half, tells us to kill him. This shows that the aspects of an imperion can have counter goals to eachother. Marika killed her other half, sealing it away within her shadow, then split again into Radagon since it seems to be a law of sorts that Imperions must split themselves. Reminds me a lot of the way the pre Christian pantheons all kind of divest from a singular chief deity.

[@RagnaRantz]

And another lore vid adds to Marika’s body count. F&&k it, she birthed EVERYTHING lol (No seriously, this went from “cool theory” to *genuine* implications that you well established! I like it! Not sure “where” I weigh in anymore. Reasons for that, but it’d be TL;DR But I’ve gotta hand it to you, to reiterate you’ve truly thrown some stones on the table w/this vid & whether “right” or “wrong” (starting to think you’re right or at least def on the path)-this was a sincere dive. Glad I ran across you, this was thorough & intriguing -subbed. Nicely done👍

[@WobblesandBean]

She only had 7 confirmed kids over the course of thousands of years. No one's mentioning Radagon's "body count".

[@RagnaRantz]

@@WobblesandBean well that’s my point Radagon IS Marika -plus I’m obviously being humorous; so there’s that

[@DaisyAzuras]

Is anyone else noticed that eyeballs are very important in this world and that all the demigods have one eye open when I closed and that the scar seals and seals of Ragon America are both eyeballs and that has a scar seal eye that covers the serpent within

[@serielmcleod1900]

I had an idea about the “egg” that lady Ranila has . It’s resin from the erd tree and it rebirths you. And it was given by mericka as radagon . But what if the egg was how merika and radagon had children? What if they used it to rebirth themselves. Let’s look at Melania and miquella (I’m spelling their names from memory.. I’m probably screwing up a lot lol) But twins… male and female. Golden hair and red hair. What if they tried to rebirth themselves as 2 but it didn’t work… it ended up creating new Devine recreations of them but left the originals alive. But you see… there isn’t just 2 of them. The greater wills elden beast is also connected to them. And it rebirthed …. But it couldn’t rebirth an outter god…. So instead it summoned one… and it split between the 2… a god of life and death as a complete cycle…but infesting melinia with of the rot and decay cycle and miquella with with rejuvenating life cycle . Not let’s look at mezzmer and Melina. What if that was their first attempt at rebirth… and it created mezzmer and Melina but once again the elden beast couldn’t be rebirthed so it drew another outter god into them… a god of fire. Mezzmer got an all consuming red fire of heat and life and a serpent … and Melina got a fire of darkness and death and a gloam eye. And perhaps the shedding skin aspect… as all her deciples wear skins… and serpents shed skins. I dunno. But I like it. I like your theory too

[@Brinkalski]

While I am more inclined to believe that Melina is the Gloam Eyed Queen, serving to eliminate opposition to Marika and then cast aside by her similar to how Messmer was used, I think the twin theory is also valid. We don't really have confirmation and what difference would it make, so believe whatever you like. Either way, it is my opinion that the GEQ eliminated other gods which potentially held threads of the Elden Ring. After their death, Marika collected these threads as you can see in the dlc trailer, and brandished the Elden Ring. However, there must have been a point when the GEQ and Marika came to disagree with one another. Marika seemed to want an eternal order with neverending life, but the GEQ represents the necessary force of death in the world. Perhaps this dispute between them led to Maliketh defeating the GEQ. If it truly was Melina, then the statue in Farum Azula may have been of her, and that may have been her seat of power until Maliketh defeated her. Then, the tie between Melina, Torrent, Ranni, and the 3 lone wolf ashes would begin to make sense. Anyway, this has been a lot of rambling but she truly is the most fascinating character in the game to me.

[@codybunz6311]

The knight of putrescence was called the glomite knight in the game code at some point during development so I think that the glomite queen What's planned to play a big part in the story of the shadow of the erdtree but they had to cut it for whatever reason

[@DLG49]

I just know Miyazaki is still cooking another DLC

[@CenteredTarnished]

I hope

[@anymeshsingh]

12:29 there are also 7 black knife assassins killing Godwin

[@MisterK9739]

7 is just a very "ominous" number in western culture, like 3. In eastern culture it would be 6 or 13. Also, I have no idea where the idea comes from that the demigods in the seven mausoleums were killed at the night of black knives? Wouldn´t makte any sense. Ranni just needed the one death to get rid of her body. And the other demigods were "Marikas unwanted children" I still like the theory more that the Tarnished is one of these unwanted demigods.

[@whoisj]

Messmer's crusade against the Hornsent came late on the history. We know than Rellana joined Messmer, and since the Carians were against the Golden Order until Rennala married Radagon. I believe Marika's revenge came after long after she'd defeated all of her original enemies and conquered the Lands Between, when she returned home only to find her village decimated. Only then did she turn on the Hornsent.

[@LifeCompanionDogs8083]

All the roaming mosoleums have a demi god child of marikas.

[@salamndert]

so if marika was the gloam eyed queen and ruled while the omen were stuffing people in jars what if they tried to make a saint for marika killing her whole village and there was probably one of marikas kids that got caught up in it maybe that was the hair she pulled out and this caused her to be upset and make the omen believe that marika betrayed them and that’s the reason she sealed death so she never had to lose anyone else she cared about

[@Victoria-vd2li]

Hair... Or mycelium? Or great runes? Or even possibly.. All of the above