The Elitism of Classical Music

Anyone can enjoy classical music - there are no objective rules for how to do so. Classical Music is, however, often associated with privilege and the elite. Why is this?
There's no intrinsic reason - the music itself is no more sophisticated than, say, hip hop or jazz. Instead, it's the sphere around classical music that reflects elitism and privilege: the way we teach and talk about it. In this video, I explore how different emphases in music education have changed attitudes to who classical music is for.
If you enjoyed this video, you might like Anna Bull's book 'Class, Control, and Classical Music': global.oup.com/academic/produ...
Other recommended reading:
Ian Pace, 'The Insidious Class Divide in Music Teaching': theconversation.com/the-insid...
Alexandra Wilson, 'Opera in the Jazz Age: Cultural Politics in 1920s Britain': global.oup.com/academic/produ....
If you enjoyed this video, please like + subscribe, and leave a comment if you have any thoughts on this subject.
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[@DrQuizzler]

Unrelated fun-fact: A few years ago, I told a co-worker I was looking forward to, that evening, attending a symphony concert featuring the Rachmaninoff 3rd Piano Concerto, she became all wide-eyed and said in a rather haughty tone, "How very HIGH-BROW of you!!" This jolted me, and for a good few seconds, I couldn't think of anything but expletives to say back. In time I came to learn that this co-worker prided herself on her love of country music, to the exclusion of all else, so I suppose this counts as a case of reverse snobbery. Anyway, when I was studying classical piano and oboe, I would often get a raised eyebrow when I would give voice to my affection for the collected works of the Partridge Family. Oh well.

[@keelymorrison1807]

Love this video! I'm going into the world of music teaching and this is something I've thought long and hard about, how to not play a part in the increased elitism. I love the idea of not using 'guess the composer' so much, although that said it's pretty much part of the exam now with the unheard ones! But this is a really good explaination, thank you Dan!

[@thetickedoffpianoplayer4193]

I wish they would teach all kinds of music, not just classical. When I grew up people acted like you're supposed to play classical music if you're a musician, and you're some kind of inferior creature if you play anything else, and heaven forbid, if you play by ear.

[@Ayo.Ajisafe]

Well done for bringing more than opinions to the table.

[@erniekeller1093]

My love for classical music began when an eighth grade teacher played an entire symphony during a class. I don't remember any discussion around what we heard, only the impact of the music itself. This symphony by Vaughan Williams began my backwards education. I started with Berlioz and Stravinsky and went back to Beethoven and Brahms. I spent time in the library reading about composers and borrowed the LP of "Mathis Der Maler" by Hindemith. I had the most unelite education in this elite music one could imagine.

[@culturalconfederacy]

Grew up listening to everything from Spyro Gyra to Beethoven and Berlioz, to Wes Montgomery, Sergio Mendes and even the Allman Brothers. This was in the '80s and '90s. But what I'm really into, is Lartin/Brazilian Jazz and the lesser known composers such as Bernhard Romberg, C.E.F. Weyse, Franz Kronmer and T.M. Eberwein. I like these genres not because I think I'm better than anybody else, but because I love the music. It speaks to me in a way that rock or rap can't. Since all music is based on what came before, it's time to shake off the elitist mentality. Btw, I find a lot of Beethoven's music somewhat stiff and cold, but love his 4th Symphony. As well as Haydn's Drumroll Symphony.

[@brandonrobins1221]

Where ever you are and whatever your doing at this current moment I hope you are well and healthy! PLease bring these types of videos on musical elitism and decolonization back if possible.

[@stevesincock842]

Excellent.

[@HipHoperaGuy]

This was good! Thank you for this!

[@jared4034]

7:27. Handel - Sarabande in d minor. Academy of st martin

[@rogerhardy6306]

I'm the only person I know that likes classical music. I've long since given up trying to recruit people to the cause but feel sorry that most of them will live their entire lives without experiencing the joy of great music.

[@davidp.7620]

The reason why classical music is elitist while rock is not is that rock fans don't spend their entire day making up reasons for why their style is "objectively" superior.

[@thetickedoffpianoplayer4193]

Unfortunately, thinking you're special because you like a certain type of music isn't exclusive to classical, although that seems to be the stereotype. Now those who play it, especially in an academic setting, yeesh.

[@kospandx]

You obviously haven't spent much time around metal fans. ;)

[@curtisunit]

Yep metal fans. Let’s throw in some jazzers and deadheads as well. Here’s one: bluegrass (new grass), folk and Celtic music heads. Deer Lordy.

[@Boccaccio1811]

@@kospandx - Metal heads are usually nice, but yeah they talk about metal as if it's superior to everything else and expect everyone else to feel the same. And in my experience, rap / hip-hop fans will try to convince you you're a bigot if you don't like their music

[@bargledargle7941]

Hello there! I am a classical music elitist myself! So I have some thoughts and disagreements about your video I suppose. Please correct me if there's any misrepresentation of your arguments in the video. 1. In the beginning you discussed about how it's taught to guess the composer and piece just hearing a short passage. Of course I disagree that this practice is any useful. Maybe I don't see it's value but I just don't see any. 2. The next thing about clothes in an opera - that's ridiculous. A beautiful person could dress like a homeless, it doesn't say anything about their inner or outer beauty. 3. You say "People think that classical music is somehow more sophisticated". I am aware you said more words but sophistication in classical music is something a lot of people misunderstand. When I say classical music is sophisticated, there are two things I refer to. First one is that they mean to write it is very challenging, much more than say pop music. Pop music is extremely easy to compose in comparison to classical music. The second one is specifically referring to the music of J.S Bach. Which is actually baroque of course, I am aware. Just saying that the music of Bach is probably the most complex and most challenging to write in the standards of. Music of other genres are simply not there. If you don't believe me, just try to write a fugue in the standards of Bach. Why would that be a challenge? Because it's a challenge. Not because classical music is "better" whatever that even means. Someone could dislike the music of J.S Bach and that doesn't mean anything about them. But the fact stands is writing that music takes skill. And that's what's "sophistication" is all about. You think math for example is not sophisticated? Why would one say math is sophisticated? Simply because it challenges the intelligence to solve and understand it. The music of J.S Bach is challenging and difficult to write. And the success in terms of money or popularity doesn't have to do with sophistication in composition. It's just not challenging to compose pop music. The challenges there are different and that's all right with me. 4. "I listened to it a thousand of hours so I know better!" - Of course this statement is utter nonsense. Many people listened to canons and to fugues without understanding a thing about their structure. In order to understand music, you must compose and play music, singing and dancing in my opinion are also important to understand music. Being able to do something helps you truly understand it and not just listening to it or reading. It's always good to remain skeptical also of the information you read and ask yourself "Is this composition really genius or they just say so? Let's decide on our own!" which is why I don't think of every work of Bach or Beethoven as genius. Just a piece for what it's worth, who cares who composed it!! I don't think I disagree with anything else you said in the video, maybe I missed it. I hope my comment didn't ruin classical music for you as those damned classical music fans! Also please don't answer "Read Book X and then come back here" as an argument. If Book X is any worth, you can use it's knowledge to argue me. If not, then there's no point in reading it or you just didn't read it.

[@Remour]

🤓🤓🤓 If you saying “I am a classical music elitist myself” I ain’t reading all that 🗿classical music is NOT superior to all other forms of music. Respect all genres and the sophistication they have. 🤨

[@bargledargle7941]

@@Remour A genre is not superior by me view, only pieces are

[@edenjones5838]

Hello! I love your videos! Please consider making a podcast so we can listen while driving!

[@cultofmusicology]

Great idea! I'll have a go with the next one.

[@JJ-zk1dq]

The music theory, chords counterpoint found in classical music is way more developed and studied that an average 3 minute pop song

[@curtisunit]

Good job bringing attention to cultural equity or capital. Lifelong musician who played an azzload of jazz who’s a classical /romantic era music junkie here. Yea I listened to a lot of it but so what? I used to date a classical musician and the people she schmoozed when we use to step out were real pieces of work. The attitude among jazzers could be equally toxic if not more so. I never made the cultural capital connection. I didn’t have the manners the cognoscenti did and therefore I was regarded as a rather feral consort. I would’ve been “Little Jimmy.” “So what do you do?” “I play jazz but I do love classical music.” Silence. “So Emily, how was your recital at Tanglewood?” “So Dave what you been up to?” “Been slowly learning some Chopin.” “Aah why you wanna do that? Any monkey can play classical!” It’s probably a response to the perceived snootiness of classical heads but that doesn’t make it any better. Just saying. Just sharing. Thanks for your video.

[@juuus2764]

In my experience a lot of classical musicians in my conservatory respect and adore jazz a lot. Also try and play in freetime, many know some principles to have a nice jam. For me its just a completely different practice and view on music

[@thetickedoffpianoplayer4193]

It was my college (university for those of you in the UK) that ruined classical music for me. It's taken me years to even be able to hear it without going into a rage.

[@jamesrogers5277]

Why?? How was your comment useful without more info? Did the college force too much of the ‘wrong’ sort of music on you? Too much boring theory? What ‘ruined’ it for you exactly? ‘Classical music’ comes in SO many different forms (literally!) and sounds and instruments.. anyway… just wondered

[@thetickedoffpianoplayer4193]

@@jamesrogers5277 Sorry in advance for the wall of text, but I don't know how to explain this without all these details. I'm blind and autistic used to be called Asperger's back ! and day), but the autism was undiagnosed so I had no support for that. I also svspect I could be dyslexic because of the way I reverse braille letters so bad. I play by ear and learn to play new stuff pretty quickly, but if I have to read music it takes me about five or six months to learn one blasted piece. Music has always been one of my greatest joys in life, but that experience not only almost ruined classical music for me, it almost ruined music. I knew you have to play classical in college, but I thought we'd be playing classical, jazz, rock, country, etc. Nope, it was all classical all the time, and if you played anything else they look down their noses at you. Also, sorry guys, but twelve-tone music sounds exactly like what an autistic meltdown feels like.

[@mixedmadness5147]

This is the video I was looking for. Actually addresses the idea of elitism in classical music. It’s objective n not defensive like I feel many other videos r.

[@detheridge1951]

What's with the distracting background music? It gets in the way of your voice.

[@andreasvandieaarde]

Speed up the video, the music becomes more distorted but the voice is still quite clear

[@detheridge1951]

@@andreasvandieaarde That's not the point, and you shouldn't have to do it. This mania for overloud background music obscures the message. It's the whole principle that's at fault.

[@andreasvandieaarde]

@@detheridge1951 well I don't actually think it's that loud in the first place, I was just suggesting a solution anyhow :^)

[@Remour]

This comment section is filled with classical elitists.

[@user-qb1sm3rk9r]

Elitism occurs in every human endeavor. Every single one. Video games have snobs. Comics have snobs. Even beer has it's snobs. It really boils down to tribalism in the end. Humans are still tribal by nature. Its true though that elitism is pretty bad in classical music.

[@HappyG1lmor488]

Anyone who uses words like "Privilege" like it's a bad thing instantly loses all respect.

[@troll707]

The overplayed bach cello is irritating btw

[@JohnBorstlap]

I stopped watching/listening after the bit that 'classical music is NOT better than other genres of music'. Of course it is better than other genres of music, ANY other genre of music, not because of social categorizing or 'only accessible to elites', but because of its psychological, aesthetic and cultural meaning. This guy is confusing some type of hourgeoisie cult with the music as such. Entirely ignorant of what classical music is. One can have heard thousands of classical music pieces and have grown-up with the sound of the genre without perceiving its meaning.

[@Remour]

Is folk music not equally as better due to its significance on culture as well? Your argument is terrible.

[@JohnBorstlap]

@@Remour It depends upon what is meant by 'culture'. The general context of 'how people live and spend their time' or 'the cultural achievements in terms of works of art'?

[@JJ-zk1dq]

Classical music IS more sophisticated that a 3 minute standard pop song from today.

[@EricLehner]

What a tired trope. "Elitism of Classical Music". BORING, BORING, BORING. If you don't like the dynamic in the space, find another place to thrive. Good grief.

[@architechofreality]

Classical Music IS superior! This video is so disappointing.

[@classicallpvault8251]

Classical music IS more sophisticated than hip hop and anyone claiming otherwise is just lying through the teeth or delusional. Hip hop is way more repetitive, lacks the use of large forms and using themes, in themselves more complex than most complete hip hop tracks, as building blocks for works on a grand scale, tends to look very empty if scored as sheet music compared to even smaller scale classical works like let's say a Chopin mazurka, and is almost completely lacking in the use of tempo changes as a form of musical expression - because the beats are electronically generated or even sampled and copy-pasted outright (like the Amen break). There is more musical complexity to be found in a single symphony of Bruckner or Franz Schmidt than in the entire musical output of even the most artistically acclaimed hip hop artist. How much postmodernist cultural relativist brainwashing were you exposed to? Postmodernism is to the brains of intellectuals what sniffing glue is to the brains of street children in Colombia, you better lay off the postmodernism and start an emergency deep-dive into the work of the late Sir Roger Scruton. Western classical music is objectively not just the greatest form of music ever created but the greatest cumulative artistic achievement of any culture during any time in history. This is why non-western high IQ high consciencious population groups like the Chinese, Japanese and Koreans prefer it over their own music, despite the fact that these population groups are on average very nationalistic - yet they still regard western classical music as more valuable.

[@Belfreyite]

I like music a lot but have great problems with written music and understanding the more complex side. This is simply because my comprehension and intellect are not that good and to really understand music and play an instrument to a high proficiency demands such. I think that people who perceive elitism, particularly in Orchestral classics, but in jazz too, somehow have a chip on their shoulder. I consider myself quite fortunate in that I don't move in musical circles and I'm not exposed to the prejudice and snobbery that abounds. A mention that I like Steve Reich, Ahmad Jamal, and Jeff Beck in the same breath usually kills any conversation I have with Classical Buffs.

[@countvlad8845]

Elite is such an ugly term. Why is classical music filled with such ugliness? You almost think that music is the means to being elite, that the music seeks it out in some ways.

[@a.534]

Every genre is elitist, in Hip Hop we have the Boom Bap fanatics, in Prog Rock those people who can't let go of the 70s and so on Also, why is academia such a big deal for you people, its not like Mozart and Beethoven went to music school 🤨

[@morningcolossus]

You’ve not really made clear why it’s relevant that elitism is universally pervasive. Does that mean classical musicians (or hip hop musicians or progressive rock musicians) should have nothing to say about elitist perspectives nor about counteracting its negative effects in a specifically educational context? Mozart and Beethoven are not the zenith of music composition, and many many canonic composers hold university degrees, particularly as models of professional music education began to shift. (Though Mozart had a fondness for the term ‘academy’.) That aside, primary and secondary teachers are most typically university graduates, so even when a modern ‘educated’ composer is not part of the academy, academic thought underpins their musicianship. Academia is today the most common means of formally professionalizing a musician in the west, so its relevance to this topic should be clear. Talking about how two specific composers were professionalized in the 18th and 19th centuries is largely irrelevant to a conversation about 21st century music education.

[@a.534]

@@morningcolossus "Does that mean classical musicians (or hip hop musicians or progressive rock musicians) should have nothing to say about elitist perspectives nor about counteracting its negative effects in a specifically educational context?" No I wasn't implying any of that "Mozart and Beethoven are not the zenith of music composition" I'd disagree, Beethoven's late quartets are one of the craziest things I've heard in music yet "That aside, primary and secondary teachers are most typically university graduates, so even when a modern ‘educated’ composer is not part of the academy, academic thought underpins their musicianship." Thats why Prog Rock is so awesome, they were cultivating an attitude of academic rebellion, so how about we actually do something about it like them and not stand here and have the same trite plebbit type of discussion all day long, that was my main point "Academia is today the most common means of formally professionalizing a musician in the west" Meh, I'd argue that KZbin tutorials have taken over (for the worse, yeah yeah) I see no point in placing such a high importance on academica, you have to understand my perspective though, my father has a PhD in musicology and his shitty hot takes and attitude made me stay away from music academy because having a degree is clearly no indicator of throughly understanding music I can read Adornos books on the sociology of music, learn sight singing, orchestration, get basically every book on libgen and correspond with (academic) musicians via discord and other social media sites all by myself, so why is academia important again? :/

[@morningcolossus]

@@a.534 What exactly is the point, then, of mentioning ‘every genre is elitist’? How does that bolster your argument or hinder the one made in the video? Again, this is not subjective: Mozart and Beethoven are not the zenith of music composition. There is no zenith. Noting that neither Mozart nor Beethoven were musically educated in a formal institution is trivia, not an indication that because they didn’t get institutional music schooling, no one really needs it. Progressive rock musicians may have thought they were ‘cultivating an attitude of academic rebellion’, but really they created a highly theoretical and elite form of rock music which other rock musicians situate themselves against aesthetically and philosophically. It does not seem like a useful model to counteract elitism, not even academic elitism more narrowly. I honestly don’t care about your personal gripe with musicology or academia; it has no bearing whatsoever on the utility of higher education en masse. And KZbin does not make formal professionals, with the operative word being ‘formal’, nor does it formally confer professional status in any capacity. Academia is important because academic institutions represent places where extensive knowledge is contained, thought networks are built and maintained, records are kept, resources (instruments, technology, facilities) are kept and maintained, and where people can get together to make music of diverse types. They are by no means the only such places, but it’s pointless to pretend the academy has no value for anyone just because you don’t like it.

[@thetickedoffpianoplayer4193]

Yes there are a lot of idiots, but classical music in college, at least as I experienced, was toxic. I've got PTSD, and part of it was from my experience as a music major. I love to play and it has always been therapy for me, but they nearly killed my love of playing, and I will always resent them for that.

[@Ayo.Ajisafe]

Being a boom bap fanatic doesn't necessarily make you elitist. I think there's a difference between being a purist and being elitist. The elitism connected with Classical music has a lot of classicist and sometimes racist undertones.