The Embarrassing History of Thundercats Roar

[@Terminalsanity]

TBT be told I never understood who this show was supposed to be for: fans of the original were sure to hate because it literally bends over backwards to mock everything about it and not in loving roast way or clever, sly, insightful way either but an aggressively laughing at you for ever having liked it way. It wasn't really for kids either because jokes relied heavily upon have at least some familiarity which the original show which one under the age of 40 at the time was much going to have. Honesty it seemed like it was made exclusively for people who saw the OG show when they were old enough to know how goofy it was at times. Truly a baffling poorly conceived show that proved my pondering was well warranted because it completely failed to find an audience in the end.

[@WolfRamAndHart]

Yes, it's like forgetting who the audience was for Velma. Pitch Meeting examined this question. Apparently, Velma's audience was the writers and producers, and no one else was considered important, since they dissed on the original Scooby Doo. This was similar. And ugly animation, IMO.

[@hellacoorinna9995]

I think the creator was getting retroactive revenge on his brothers.

[@stevenflemons6177]

I liked the OG show, I LOVED the 2011 reboot. I tried an episode of Roar, and it wasn’t for me and moved on. Still love Thundercats

[@ta0paipai]

I might be the only person that loves all three. I didn't think I'd like Roar, especially after the cringe interviews from creators, but I found it funny and thought it used the lore well - BUT I know I'm in the extreme minority.

[@chuckcharlesz]

@@ta0paipai You are not alone. There are dozens of us.

[@Sigurther]

2011 reboot was amazing. I love how they expanded the backstory *significantly* even if it differed from the original. Roar simply wasn't gonna happen with me; modern reboots had already left a bad taste in my mouth and Roar was a bitter pill.

[@GeneralBulldog54]

Such a grown up response. How refreshing.

[@Canoby]

Look at you being all reasonable and mature and adult like

[@angryscholar8450]

I think there's a related conversation to be had about the endless recycling of existing IPs versus telling entirely new stories without relying on existing brand recognition.

[@doggowar]

There isn’t really. We’ve been recycling stories since the dawn of humanity.

[@Jaguarsclaw]

@@doggowar False equivalency

[@user-vi4xy1jw7e]

You can thank the fans for that. They endlessly pine for new installments and whine about how new stuff sucks and nothing is ever as good as what they liked as kids. Corps decide to capitalize on that. It's an endless cycle.

[@user-vi4xy1jw7e]

​@@JaguarsclawDo you know what that term means? Lol

[@Jaguarsclaw]

@@user-vi4xy1jw7e Ask yourself that question, the retelling of, for example, the heroes journey. Has nothing to do with why companies are recycling IPs and failing which as the comment above stated we’ve been doing it since the beginning of time.

[@leblanc3536]

“Consumer who’s identity was so intertwined with a corporately owned brand that the line between product and self was indistinguishable” Stares at the shelves behind him

[@CaptainRufus]

The show creators tried something. The audience didn't want it. Doesn't matter if it was good or not. People didn't want it and it died. Sometimes crap wins sometimes quality does sometimes it's the other way around. Not much we can do about it.

[@CaptainRufus]

Now was Roar like that Loonatics show? No idea it didn't look like my thing so I moved on. If it was? Well it got what it deserved and hopefully they learned from it. But as nobody learns anything especially not the business and entertainment sector? Well there we go. If it was good and died? Oh well it happens. From reading comments here it was more in that Loonatics level of THIS IS NOT WHAT ANYONE WANTS AND ISN'T EVEN GOOD region as opposed to the 2010s show which was great.

[@nandor786]

Kinda surprised there was an effort to defend this show. It was a product nobody wanted except for the executives that tried to replicate Teen Titans Go 's success. Fans of the original (now adults) would never have accepted this dumbed down version of it, and having kids why would they show them Roar if they can show them the original and make some awesome shared memories in the process? It is also weird that the main defense always is that it was a show for kids, well what do you think fans of the original were back in the 80s/90s? Makes no sense. If somebody out there loved the show, that's okay, but I'll never understand why.

[@AliceSpratt]

I know ThunderCats Roar Sucked bad the first time it premiered.😡😡

[@Hatsworthful]

There was, and while there's definetly a fair number of people who, liking the series and/or any version in specific or not, just wanted the artists to have their fair due, other people with some more of an industry presence did the equivalent of the "saved the city" bit from spongebob, but on a much higher scale. Case in point there's the TTGO episode which was the equivalent of trying to stop a fire by throwing an entire oil platform at it. Frankly the only people that seemed to have the right idea were the creators of it themselves, who tried to keep chill and wait until the whole thing blew over.

[@stevenbarton5609]

I'm still upset over the 2011 show cancellation. It was good damnit!

[@maxxcreese9911]

Preach to the choir! There are dozens of us!

[@zephodb]

@@maxxcreese9911 Sadly, maybe even a whole Score. >.>

[@JLE8811]

It really was

[@madamefluffy4788]

They had the third season all planned out, too. I really wanted to see the episode where we learn the reason why there's bad blood between the Lizardmen and the Thunderians (the reason - Claudus wanted to expand his kingdom, so sent his forces to claim nearby lands - which included the Lizardmen's. Whether they were aware of it or not, the Thunderians destroyed the Lizardmens rookery - which Slythe personally witnessed as LynxO (who led that charge) called out 'No hard feelings!/Nothing personal!' as they tore through those lands. The episode ends with Slythe finding LynxO and saying that exact same line before killing LynxO. An episode where the viewers would not only sympathize/understand where the villain was coming from, but that the supposed good guys were not as innocent as they were led to believe. The fans were seriously robbed of such a brilliant piece of story telling/lore.

[@thesrwgallery4341]

it was great!

[@Silver-Kaitou]

That like to disike ratio, though.

[@mittensfastpaw]

Honestly not enough dislikes for how much an ass he was in this video.

[@AllBreaksLoose]

I gave it a fair shot. I watched about half an episode. The art wasn't the problem. Bad writing was.

[@BonusEggs4Sale]

How toXiC of you!

[@laurencefraser]

I doubt the art Helped, going by the clips, even if you had nothing against the broader style, it was a particularly bad example.

[@jrmloh]

Probably the best thing they could do for Thundercats is just bring back the previous one that was cut short.

[@joemartin5669]

Or have someone animated it to look like it was back in 85 but with improvements

[@yowatchie]

I mean the art also sucked colossal ass.

[@davidgannon5388]

16:00 - Yes, Dan, but those franchises never put out a series that not only looked like it was mocking the original, but *did* mock it! (Pssst! Thundercats Roar mocked the original two series.)

[@GamerSlyRatchet1]

It wasn’t that show that did it. It was the Teen Titans Go crossover with Roar that did it. TTGo always makes fun of fans and other shows. The actual Roar show has safer, blander humor.

[@TheLostWorldFanChann]

I don't know what they had against the Thundercat (Panthro) who was voiced by an African American voice actor named Earle Hyman. They not only killed the original 80s version of the character as a macab " joke" but also showed off his bones on the ground as a way to rub salt in the wounds of their "Haters". I'm not even that big of a fan, and found that kinda distasteful especially since the original voice actor seemed to be a decent guy, and had recently passed away in 2017. They don't talk about those low blows in this video tho. Really makes you think . . . . 🤔🤔

[@Channeleven2345789]

@@TheLostWorldFanChann I think you're looking *way* too deep into this man.

[@necrojoker6096]

@@Channeleven2345789 nah that's dan, he really went deep.

[@Channeleven2345789]

@@necrojoker6096 if nothing else I learned how unhinged Thundercats fans can be given their reaction to this video. Regardless of the quality of Roar (I’m not even a fan of that show by the way), people just went crazy about it.

[@ThisIsAigle]

Here you go. I enjoyed the original Thundercats. I really enjoyed the 2011 reboot.And I appreciate that Roar knew what it wanted to be, and did that. But the problem was 'that thing it wanted to be' wasn't a good Thundercats show. You spoke of straddling the line between maintaining the previous fans, and engaging new ones, and much like 2011 Thundercats failed to get new fans (though it certainly wasn't targeting the demographic that would storm toy stores and scream until their parents bought them that Lion-O figure), Roar likewise failed to maintain those old fans. In fact the creators outright condemned any opinion that wasn't "This is the greatest Thundercats show ever" (spoiler: it wasn't). The animation, while popular at the time, was not the right medium for Thundercats. Even the 80's Thundercats was clean, realistic (as far as 80s animation and anthropomorphic cats can be realistic). They looked good. They looked professional. Roar . . . did not. And other shows using that janky animation (yes, even Teen Titans Go) did a far better job at combining the humor it should include with at least reasonable storylines, even the ones that were episodic in nature and not long form. It failed not because the original fans disliked it, it failed because the creators did nothing to make the older fans *want* to like it. And that's on them. No one else.

[@superby1]

Great point!

[@JustMantisThings]

It died literally because a bunch of adults got too in their feelings about a kid’s show and decided if they were offended, nobody could watch it

[@thegodemperorhiram]

Damn Dan, you really want people to hate you here. I get you werent a thundercats fan, many people werent, but some of us were. And the original series wasnt a serious study of good and evil, but it was more serious than other cartoons at the time, and many of us apreciated it for that. Lion-O wasnt just given the power, he had trials, and in many episodes, he defered to the wisdom of his elder partners. The third earth was a place devastated by previous wars, many of its inhabitants were the result of this. The cats planet exploded, and they were refugees, they had to made alliances with other races on earth, thats how the Cats Lair got build. This and many more elements, are important to what the Thundercats are, and changing that tone to a funny cartoon was meant to dislike thundercats fans. Yes, the og cartoon was in the past, but either you appeal to those fans, or you try to get new ones; now, who was this meant for? You cant call it a vocal minority, if there is no silent majority with opposing opinions. If no one watched this show, it was because the majority didnt like what they saw. And no, people are not forced to "give an oportunity" to products that dont appeal to them , creators have to convince the public to watch their product. "Oh but if people have watched this, maybe there be more thundercats products, maybe even a movie", yeah, thats bullshit Dan, what would have happened if people had watched this, is that there would be now spiderman spew, superman flooosh, power ranges piu piu and more things like that, because thats how hollywood works

[@contempocomics]

Totally normal reaction by a sane person right here.

[@thegodemperorhiram]

@@contempocomics Wow, such a well thought out and fundamented response. Make sure you rest after this, so you won't faint from the effort

[@madamefluffy4788]

@@contempocomics Where were they wrong, though?

[@contempocomics]

@@madamefluffy4788 Literally the 1st sentence.

[@necrojoker6096]

dude spent like 10 solid minutes just laying waste on the fans.

[@Dracounguis]

I think this video is longer than Thundercats Roar lasted. 😆

[@Jucelegario]

I actually think is one of Larry Fink's ESG, crowning achievements: Destruction, Humiliation, Soul crushing, Annihilation of a beloved, seen as macho, property from the 80s when there were too many, for Larry's taste, macho properties.

[@JohnDoe-wq5eu]

It really says something when a show is so completely hated and rejected by the audience that the company who made/owns it just buries it completely.

[@theshakeups]

@@JohnDoe-wq5euWhich is really too bad, because I went in planning to hate it and was completely hooked. Loved the original, loved the 2011 reboot. Art style aside, this one is really similar to the original down to using many of the same musical cues. Only people who were fans of the original could've made this one.

[@WolfRamAndHart]

Thundercats Roar was like an early version of the "Velma" problem. A show that doesnt care who the audience is, mostly expresses disdain for the IP audience of Scooby Doo, and is nowhere good enough to find a new one. Plus terrible animation, after the beautifully rendered 2011 Reboot. This should have been figured out in the pitch meeting. Speaking of..watch Ryan George's Pitch Meeting of Velma. That explains the problem here.

[@jonfoster5685]

You are way off on a lot of points about the "fans" and why we feel the way we did towards Thundercats Roar and why we felt insulted. It was not just "nastalgia" for nastalgia sake. Some of us looked up to how Lion-O handled leadership being thrust upon him in an emergency situation. How he had to prove his worth just to keep that title and role. Thundercats Roar turned actual character develpoment into a mockerery of what it takes to be a leader when he just wanted to be a kid. Transformers Hot Rod could have learned a thing ot two from him.

[@AuthorJohnADouglas]

Finger wagging and fan blaming is one of the things that made fans hate the show. This show deserves every ounce of vitriol it got.

[@rosskwolfe]

Wow, coming out of the gate strong with being absolutely wrong in every way. A bold move, Cotton. Lets see if it works out.

[@tman1782]

The show died as it lived unremarkable and forgettable I wouldn't throw on the cape for this one Dan

[@r0BCEN0]

Wow this whole episode felt like that episode of the Simpsons where Kent Brockman says, "Now, at the risk of being unpopular, this reporter places the blame for all of this squarely on YOU, the viewers."

[@TVOR]

You hit the nail on the head.

[@ImpalerVladTepes]

I mean, I didn't take it that way but then again I'm not a thin skinned loser getting mad at cartoons on the internet.

[@Gridlock3]

​@@ImpalerVladTepesWe found Dan alt account.

[@wild360]

100% They knew the fans, the people that grew up with the show, were steamed at this goofball take on Thunder Cats and doubled down with an episode attacking audience? Yeah, that always works out!

[@LordArikado]

Coming from someone with zero attachment to any incarnation of Thundercats, I feel this video really missed the mark. It focused WAY too much on the internet drama and didn't seem to consider that it looked to be a flawed approach from conception. Obviously the hardcore nostalgia-obsessed people who grew up with the 80's show wouldn't like it, the people who wanted a continuation of the 2011 series also wouldn't be interested, but they're not the target demographic. Kids are, and kids have no awareness or attachment to Thundercats as a brand due to it spending most of its 40 or so years of existence with no new shows or movies to keep it in the public consciousness. Transformers and TMNT are able to reboot themselves so often and so successfully because they've never really had these massive dry spells of no new media, so even kids that haven't seen an older incarnation of Transformers still know who Optimus Prime is, or kids who have never seen a Ninja Turtles show know who Michaelangelo is. Just like this video, it failed at reading the room and wound up drawing the worst kind of attention while the people it was targeted at didn't know about it or didn't care.

[@sbollettieri9793]

Agreed

[@pickyyeeter]

To be fair, this comment section presents a pretty compelling case for the internet drama being the lede in this story

[@cardsnark3651]

I agree with that

[@SuperWolsey]

Agreed

[@KamisamanoOtaku]

@@pickyyeeter Does it? No, really asking. I've been reading through at least some of the comments, and no one is going all "toxic fan" on Dan. Doesn't mean they're not there, but they're not all that prominent. I'm *still* trying to work out if Dan has reach "epic" levels of trollery or if he became what he hates with this video... and even if it is the latter, that isn't a huge problem. S'one video.

[@BigGator5]

Thundercats Roar was an intersection of every bad idea in one show. I look forward to seeing your video on the new Good Times animated series on Netflix.

[@theoneandonlysoslappy]

I'm sure Velma is a masterpiece.

[@larrya384]

The real reason it failed is because it did not find a new audience .I agree no one should be threatened, Fans are passionate they keep all of these IPs going. Your channel is based on the love for all of these shows. I felt like this was more of a rant video than a history of video. I really enjoy your work. I disagree with this take. Thank you

[@davidanderson4748]

I hope Dan doesn’t continue down this path. He’ll wind up a bitter man in a basement like Retroblasting.

[@bobdude7111]

@@davidanderson4748 Sort of thing was the reson why i stopped watching retroblasting, even when I agreed with their overall point.

[@CaptainRufus]

​@@bobdude7111I quit when he got into a spat with another toy channel that was from a guy who had been in the industry. Like his dorky raging on parts of Robotech or Neca? Sad but people have their own opinions. Not wanting to cover any toy line he hadn't 100% completed? Kinda dumb in both a financial and THIS IS AN INTERNET VIDEO ABOUT OLD TOYS sense. His debate with that guy? Yeah Rblastin came off as a sulky entitled douche canoe. One who apparently has a very well paying job (hopefully) to buy lots of expensive needless stuff.

[@ImpalerVladTepes]

lol no

[@YodaPagoda]

@@CaptainRufus Michael French is notoriously thin-skinned and while some of his early content was good, he started a lot of feuds with other channels. When he talks to the camera he drove me up a wall. I don't think Dan Larson is gonna go that path Dan has seen more episodes of Thundercats than I have, and I was a kid when the show was on. I have no nostalgia for it.

[@MKCustodial]

It's a weird time we live in. Powers That Be want old fans to like their new take on things they love while simultaneously making fun of both said properties and said fans. And then they complain when that specific formula doesn't work out. The video mentions that Transformers and TMNT are still alive because they get chances to reinvent themselves. However, even with the extremes they've gone to, neither franchise has a "ThunderCats Roar" in their camp. Maybe if ThunderCats got a reboot in the style of the new comic that was mentioned in the video, instead of a "made to be shared in social media" show, things would've gone differently…

[@kuahmelallah]

Kiss Players and Animated say hi. Turtles got that treatment the second it moved off the black & white comics page, never mind that it was already created as a send-up of "grim & gritty" turns in Daredevil, Batman, etc.

[@AgentNevets]

I never complained about Roar, I just avoided it cause it wasn’t for me. Having said that? I really found your comments in this video…unpleasant. I can’t help but wonder if you would have had a less unpleasant video had you been a fan of the other versions. It seemed biased, and angry? Just…weird.

[@alexkuieck6705]

"On this week's episode of 'Chip on my Fucking Shoulder...'"

[@tino9117]

Ye gotta admit this definitely was somewhat revenge driven but I can understand why

[@tmrevenge]

​@@tino9117fans did something to him?

[@MrMeeples]

Sounds like someone got trigger by the video 😂

[@alexkuieck6705]

@@MrMeeples Yes, Dan did lol

[@MrMeeples]

@@alexkuieck6705 LoL, that doesn't even make any sense 😆 Have fun coping, little troll.

[@Rojixus]

You won't find me shedding a tear for Thundercats Roar, I don't even care about it enough to hate it.

[@kildaver]

Arguably, that's the worst fate for a franchise: folks not caring about it *at ALL.*

[@GoddessOfWhim2003]

same. i feel bad for the fans that hated this as i have been there with Voltron, Death Note, and Cowboy Bebop

[@Xinetoan]

One thing worth mentioning in any Thundercats retrospective is how much the original knocked the logo out of the park. You still see people putting that logo on tattoos, clothes, stickers, etc. way out of proportion to the show's original run.

[@Mighty-VizioN]

Yea that Mercury (the car) logo is awesome

[@wannabkain4400]

I still am hurt that 2011 died. It was amazing

[@Lizardpopcorn]

Lego Chema

[@NYCJoeBlack]

I wouldn’t say amazing, but it was good. For me, the 80’s Thundercats is the best of the three officially produced TV shows. I own DVD/Blu rays of the 80’s Thundercats and the 2011 Thundercats. I would like to own a physical copy of Thundercats Roar even though the couple of episodes I watched did absolutely nothing for me, it is now (unfortunately) a part of the Thundercats legacy.

[@russelladams6517]

It was so dope

[@Arclight-Arcanum]

It really was. One of the few times that a remake was better than the original.

[@necrojoker6096]

Ah, what could've been, finally connecting silver hawks and tiger sharks? Alas, it only lives in our memories.

[@wild360]

Thundercats Roar was one of the first examples of IP holders making an ill advised reboot/remake, mocking fans for hating it, then blaming anything but themselves for it failing. Now that is common practice.

[@hellacoorinna9995]

Ghostbusters 2016?

[@wild360]

​@@hellacoorinna9995 Yeah! That was on the same level.

[@kingmarkseven17]

Classic WB bullshit.

[@tino9117]

Please tell me where the creators/IP holders were mocking fans without bringing up the TTG episode that they didn't work on

[@WASTOIDSUPREME]

Jem And The Holograms 2015?

[@darthmcgee2216]

Very salty and resentful right out of the gate I see. I watched several of these and let's be honest. It wasn't a gem with strong story telling and a kickin OST that fans crapped on. It was lazy and pretentious. This was another show that disrespected the property and instead of taking criticism and improving they lectured and talked down to the fan base. Not a good plan. This plan of attack is like telling customers at a steak house that you now only serve tofu wraps. When the customers get up and leave you start insulting and berating them for wanting the same old steaks and not giving your tofu wraps a go. Customers leave and spend their money on what they actually wanted not what you told them to like. This video spends more time bashing the fans who were ready to empty their wallets on a good Thundercats reboot while spending very little time talking about the actual show. Not up to your usual quality. I hope this is a one time bump in the road and you can follow up with a much stronger and well thought out video.

[@ActionTalk1]

The only advice Warner Bros should take with Thundercats Roar is to leave that version buried and dead and never, ever speak of it again.

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

You chose to defend complete crap.

[@necrojoker6096]

it's so weird, dude usually has neutral takes but he's shitting on the fans hard, god knows why, kinda makes me wanna unsub.

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

@@necrojoker6096 Has anyone here avoided bad takes?

[@williamhare4456]

The Promo card for Thundercats 2011 at 4:07 reads ‘Saturday Night at 2:30A’ with a glorious time slot as two thirty in the morning it’s a wonder why it failed.

[@Girder3]

The schedule was pretty much what killed the show's prospects.

[@toonboy2041]

The show aired on Friday nights on CN. That was just from the airing from Adult Swim’s late night programming block, Toonami

[@iamgroot8725]

I think the big point you glossed over was there had only been two ThunderCats shows in over 30 years and people did actually want more of those or at the very least the second half/satisfying conclusion to the 2011 show before doing something new. You compare to Transformers and TMNT which had numerous shows in the same time period with hardly any gaps and oftentimes multiple at the same time; so people didn't have time to constantly be nostalgic for the past (though some were and there's nothing wrong with that) or at least had more choices for the brand they loved. ThunderCats is clearly a smaller property in comparison to them and while popular in its own right; people had waited nearly 10 years since the sad premature cancellation of its last show for a variety of reasons. So, when they saw the teaser for Roar, you can't blame people for being massively disappointed. If Roar truly was the great show you thought; it would have overcome that "vocal online minority" with great success or perhaps find its audience later on. Living here in the future; we can see that did not happen ;)

[@Jucelegario]

If, IF, you are truly modern audience, you want depressing anime coloring, not vibrant lowest of the low, effort dog💩. This is the reason the 2011 show failed, new audiences that liked it were not enough. What true og fans wanted is/was the OG show in pristine 1080p transfer and a continuation from the og people that may still be around if they have stuff in their mind, with the same character designs, muscles, shadows, detailed drawings of explosions, that stuff.

[@JohnDoe-wq5eu]

​@@Jucelegario I mean the problem was the 2011 version was hella expensive. So what did they do they turned around and did roar instead and it was the exact opposite problem it was an insanely cheap-looking show that pissed off everyone besides the fans of that art style (of which there are few or at least far fewer than most people claim) but even those people didn't want thundercats in that style. The most recent one was literally a product looking for a market. A continuation of the original thundercats or at least the 2011 would have been much more well received.

[@Jucelegario]

@@JohnDoe-wq5eu the 2011 version's main problem was the depressing color grading and is ridiculous to me that standardized, software corrected, digital drawings, are more expensive than back in the day, hand drawn cells. One have to be either too $tuxxd or too evil to green lit something like the Cal Arts dog💩 and I believe is the later.

[@ferguillen3288]

Mind you there was no audience for the 2011 reboot, that's why it got cancelled, nobody was watching.

[@mrheroprimes]

@@JohnDoe-wq5eu The other thing was no one was really buying the toys that were released to coincide with the 2011 series.

[@Prime92]

I watched the original when it first came out. I bought the DVD sets when they came out. I loved it, even with it's flaws. I also loved the 2011 version and was pissed when it got canceled. I personally don't care what this version was about because it looks horrible. I don't care what school these people went to. The characters look terrible and you can't change my mind. No matter how much you think people who don't like it are meanies. You can like it, and that's fine; plus some people went overboard, and was stupid. I still think this was a terrible idea the moment I first saw it. I'm glad it failed.

[@maskofthedragon]

OP seems really mad a turd was successfully flushed

[@geeker6350]

I'm still halfway convinced that this whole show was an inside job by Mumm-Ra himself to destroy the Thundercats brand.

[@DerivativeWorker]

And he had to stretch it out by putting in clips relating to the Cats broadway play!

[@CantankerousDave]

Insidious.

[@Matthew-jn1tg]

The show runner has an older brother who was the right age to be the target demographic. The best theory I've heard is this was a deliberate attempt to ruin something his older brother loved. Which is why it oozes spite.

[@KellymatthewBarnes]

Yes shame on Dan, Thundercats Roar is Hilarious 😆

[@Matthew-jn1tg]

@@KellymatthewBarnes why you gotta lie like that

[@swanofnutella4734]

Even as a kid I was kinda luke-warm about Thundercats. You could not call me a huge fan. Whatever language that describes 'Roar's' ...'derpy' art style? ...the anger? I totally get it. It makes me, a non-fan, angry too. The style oozes with a willfully weak, infantilized slacker, non-try energy. Which is antithetical to the in-shape, up-and-Adam, will-to-power self-actualization energy OG Thudercats was bringing. ....so the mystery behind the anger there? ....Not that mysterious. (Side note: While I don't love Thundercats, I DO love Tsuguyuki Kubo's character design. He was also responsible for Rankin Bass's Hobbit/Return & Last Unicorn. I love his style.)

[@zufalllx]

I love it when people try to tell other people they are not a fan of something. Like they are a 'real' fan and people who disagree are 'threatened'. So If given the choice between Roar and Nothing, I'll have a double nothing.

[@boboldman7964]

LOL. You lost all credibility when you quoted a CBR article. I have absolutely no skin in this game. I’ve seen exactly one episode of Thundercats, so I don’t care one way or the other about it. This show was a bad idea from the start. The show runner disliked the source material and it showed in the final product. Also, if it were a “vocal minority” of people not liking a show, then it would have lasted for more than one season - like Teen Titans Go.

[@tommytestpilot5733]

Sounding a little passionate Dan. Careful, you're getting awfully close to having an emotional response like the "fans" that you're admonishing.

[@kevinsharpe8457]

Yep. Very telling.

[@MonoSimio]

Agreed. Those idiots take everything too seriously, starting with their loyalty to 20-minute long kids' toys advertisements from the 80s.

[@kevinsharpe8457]

@@MonoSimio oh you mean the show that without which , there’d be no reason for shitty ROAR. . Keep trying , you might get to a real point.

[@scionkai2524]

@@kevinsharpe8457I imagine the conversations going on behind closed doors about this video's comment section would be even more telling. Doubling down would be a mistake, but sweeping it under the rug would reek of contempt.

[@tino9117]

So either he's valid in having an emotional response or the "fans" where unreasonable in their response

[@dannyhima]

It was terrible.

[@OliverGraves]

I love Star Trek TNG and Beast Wars, shows that "ruined" everything.

[@ColorOfExcellence]

Imagine releasing a product that the consumer doesn't like and blaming the consumer instead of being accountable to the product.

[@BonusEggs4Sale]

Well the channel has no problem mercilessly mocking the dreck that the 80s and 90s produced, but apparently dreck from today is sacred and off-limits.

[@ColorOfExcellence]

@@BonusEggs4Sale That's because the channel satirizes a very specific set of nostalgia. If you need compentary of modern work, there are PLENTY of channels crying about Snyder, Gunn, and LucasFilms.

[@Sciopticl]

Wow. Way to shit all over fan reactions, and yes, they ARE FANS. Just because you didn't like Thundercats, doesn't mean you should be so dismissive as to the fan dislike of Roar.

[@shade20x64]

Some shows are worth dying on a hill to defend. Roar is not one of those shows.

[@Gbro]

Exactly

[@tino9117]

As if you can just decide that

[@shade20x64]

@@tino9117 I just did. I've actually watched Roar. It's insultingly bad.

[@deadpool3982]

@@tino9117 yes they can. That’s how opinions work…

[@TheLostWorldFanChann]

I don't think he's so much trying to defend this forgettable show as he is showing his disdain for his audience. His audience mainly composing of Nostalgic "Fans" of shows from the 80s and 90s. You know his main demographic. His bread and butter. Is he trying to catch the attention of a much bigger fish that is not only much higher up the corporate ladder, but also shares the sentiments in this video? Who knows?

[@BigFunnyGiant]

I tried watching it. It wasn’t for me. I also think that animation style is horrid, but that’s my opinion not a fact.

[@angelalvarezcine]

It actually is a fact

[@tyfyghtr]

​@@angelalvarezcine opinions =/= fact. It's okay if you didn't like it, but let's not state opinions are facts.

[@angelalvarezcine]

@@tyfyghtr the animation style is horrid and that’s a fact. Just compare it to any other style, from old disney, to ghibli, to tartakowsky’s, to wander over yonder (which has the “calarts” style too). It’s objectively bad. It’s ok if you like it though, to each their own. But it is bad and it’s not just an opinion.

[@daithirian]

While I don’t disagree in disliking the art of the show, again art is subjective, always in the eye of the beholder and therefore always metered on opinion over fact. Again won’t deny that it looks like trash to me, but it’s practically gold in an animation style since it wasn’t bound by solid standards of reality letting the animators get away with more than they would have otherwise in a style like either show before. For what the show was attempting to do it wasn’t an entirely wrong choice. Only that the entire feel of the show didn’t resonate with most. Older fans hated the departure from the more action oriented series it had always been, while kids probably saw it for ripping off the Teen Titans Go format with characters that they had no real impact from.

[@kingmarkseven17]

It's a fact.

[@Inferon44]

I never watched any of the three series, so I was interested in hearing about this, but this episode really felt like Dan talking down to his audience.

[@superomegaprimemk2]

I would recomend watching the original, much of the first season is stand alone eps aside from a couple of eps which are the trials of Lion'o which was a couple of eps where he has to beat the other Thundercats in a series of trials, then from the second season, it starts to have a real plot with the arrival of new villians who are more of a threat than the mutants and a bit later, the anicent spirts of evil also come into play!

[@Inferon44]

Thanks for the recommendation!

[@unevenbonsai1715]

It wasn't what I wanted, but it was fun and im happy to have more thunder cats

[@Gymgineer]

been a long time since i seen youtube recommend this stuff. So i figured i'd sub so i get alerts... then i see this... mistakes were made...

[@rodesvilobo8670]

Thundercats 2011 was a gem and they follow with this $#¡T?!?

[@akaGravedust]

Weird direction on this episode. It just seemed like the writing on this episode devolved into the same kind of discourse you were critiquing. 🤷‍♂

[@Jetsetradio]

Yeah, it's hard to say if it was self aware of just hypercritical.

[@MrChupacabra555]

Beginning to wonder if this is their most downvoted video ever (got a extension that lets me see them: 4.6 up vs 3.3 down, as of this post)

[@davidalan6701]

I know, for me, it just felt like the 2011 version was just picking up steam and setting up a lot of story and history lore that ended on a cliffhanger, so when Roar was announced, it felt like they were leaving us hanging to start something new that wouldn’t do anything to tell us where the story would’ve gone.

[@conduit64]

The best way to sum up Thundercats Roar is that it was Velma before there was Velma. A show seemingly deliberately made to turn off the original fanbase with it's ugly design yet was completely dependent on that fanbase since all of the "humor" revolved around being familiar with the original show. It was a show made with absolutely no one in mind, fans of both the original and reboot didn't want it and it was unapproachable to potential new fans. While it is a fair criticism to say that the internet drama surrounding the show was overblown it is however utterly ridiculous to blame angry fans for the shows failure. The simply fact is if the show had had any real merit it would have found an audience regardless of how much older fans disliked it.

[@tino9117]

It is NOT like Velma, get that take outta here

[@conduit64]

@@tino9117 It is just like Velma, an ugly disgrace to the source material that was made solely for the self satisfaction of the creator.

[@deadpool3982]

@@conduit64 in fairness the creator of Velma wanted to make an original IP it was WB that made her put a known IP skin on it

[@darkcoeficient]

​@@tino9117did you work on this show?

[@doggowar]

Did you?

[@jtscustomcutlery317]

9:40 hold the fone did he just say he doesn’t like the og thundercats 😱

[@1275spiderman]

Yes he did. Smh 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@JLE8811]

I think he was trying to say that's who the "fans" were that complained.

[@watcherzero5256]

@@JLE8811 Yeah he seemed to be saying that watching 4 episodes, liking the intro and disliking the episodes qualified him to be a fan whose opinion was equally justified if not more important than those who actually watched the original or 2011 show.

[@Inufriki]

I watched this show with a little kid that loved every CN show at the time. He find this one boring and ugly. He laughed and enjoyed SU, Adventure Time and all the other shows. This one was destined to die.

[@victorcastle5757]

Never got into Steven Universe, but Adventure Time actually was a really good, intricately-crafted show. It doesn't deserve to be compared to this shlock.

[@Channeleven2345789]

@@victorcastle5757 Adventure Time shares some similar principles when it comes to design, Adventure Time can even be blamed for influencing the art direction of a lot of shows, plus the show is pretty overrated.

[@victorcastle5757]

@Channeleven2345789 i guess to most of that, but I dont think it's overrated, but pretty good.

[@Chadius]

Not only did it mess with 80s Thundercats, but it ALSO screwed the 2011 reboot. "CalArts" internet hate was at its peak and this show didn't help. Getting 80s Lion-O to tell all the haters they have poop opinions while 2011 Panthro rots didn't go over well either.

[@Channeleven2345789]

No, LEGO screwed the 2011 reboot, and let's be real, the 2011 reboot was a forgettably generic cartoon

[@ImTheKingOfHyrule]

​@@Channeleven2345789 2011 had some writing issues up front that I think turned some people off, but the designs and animation were beautiful. I think it needed to mature but it never got the chance. It was about 10 years too early to really take full advantage of the anime craze that's happening right now, although ironically, the anime craze is largely being fueled by how trashy so much American entertainment is today, and people are desperately looking for alternatives.

[@TheLostWorldFanChann]

Yeah, It seems this video didn't want to go too in depth about those low blows "for reasons" The original Panthro "joke" was particularly mean spirited considering that the original voice actor had just recently passed away.

[@jasongraham3873]

I love you guys and I’ve been following you for years, even supported you on Patreon up until recently. Nevertheless, while this may be all on me, I’ve never felt so judged and condescended to by one of your videos before. Aggressively so. I had to stop watching, didn’t want to finish. You’re welcome to your creative freedom of course - and I totally support that and adore the chances you take; the Twin Peaks episode was incredible, for example! Nevertheless, as a fan(atic) and proselytizer of Toy/Secret Galaxy, I still found that the writing on this video essay missed the mark. Regardless, very much appreciate what you do and see you next week.

[@beverins]

My daughter loves teen titans go.. I loved it too. She couldn’t even stand to watch the first episode of Roar . She hated it.

[@tino9117]

Damn, I wonder if it says more about you two than the actual product

[@deadpool3982]

@@tino9117 that it didn’t resonate with its target audience or people outside of it? I mean the fact it failed should tell you that 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@KJ-tz7vc]

This is Dan's "Leave Britney Alone!" video.

[@The_Jimplication]

Except Chris Crocker had a valid point, just poorly expressed.

[@tino9117]

Not even close man, this video looks at the nature of toxic fandoms as a whole, just using this show as a major example cause like, ye this show is mostly known through it's controversy

[@IronSheepEngine]

@@The_Jimplication Not to mention he was unintentionally funny.

[@Mardanzo]

@@tino9117 corpos have no excuse to greenlight a piece of shit like this that has "franchise killer" written all over it

[@bastien-]

The people who would care about a Thunder Cats reboot simply didn't want it. It was banking on the notoriety of an IP with two separate generations of fans, without serving either, with the second generation having legitimate reasons to feel let down. It was a very wild swing and a very predictable miss.

[@JeffreyPiatt]

Japan has a better sense of humor with this kind of s show. SD Gundam has been around since the damn 80's.

[@michaelmaguire4147]

@@JeffreyPiatt The thing about SD Gundam is that they still made regular gundam with it.

[@Zetswe_Nox]

​@JeffreyPiatt I got to say that is a horrible comparison. SD was never meant to overtake the normal Gundam stuff. SD was a comedic show meant for a younger audience. While still continuing the dark 'war is hell' Gundam stories. I feel this is an bad faith argument here. We didn't have a comedic and more serious shows going side by side here. We had a 'Well if u don't like it too bad ur not a real fan!' Thing happen.

[@Big_Dai]

This paragraph could be used on EVERY new remake

[@Mousie10]

Here's the thing. 80's Thundercats, is absolutely stupid. I grew up with it as a kid, and I watched it and liked it then, but it was ridiculous back then and even kid me knew that, but I didn't mind. 00/10s Thundercats was a gritty reboot with a stronger focus on storytelling than episodic nonsense. It only bears the vaguest resemblance to 80s Thundercats. I liked it. It was good. I watched it as an adult. Thundercats Roar was not for me. Much like Teen Titans Go, is not for me. Thundercats Roar was for a new generation, the same one that adored Teen Titans Go. Much the same way not every TMNT reboot is good, or the fact that I hate the Transformers movies. It doesn't mean that it's the wrong way to go with the franchise, it just means it's not for me. And not every reboot has to be for me. If I don't like it, I don't watch it, and allow the people who do enjoy it to have that. Maybe the next reboot will be for me, maybe it won't. But just because I like it a certain way doesn't mean it always has to be presented in that way. Drawing back in the old fans is nice, but getting new fans is better. Your childhood isn't ruined is any way by new versions of a franchise. Those shows still exist. You can go back and watch them anytime. If they aren't on streaming services they're probably available on Blu-Ray or DVD, or KZbin. It's highly likely they exist somewhere on the internet. Go re-watch them, bathe in your nostalgia, and leave the reboots alone. New viewers will decide if they like them or not and the brand will continue to perpetuate for new generations. That's how you respect your nostalgia. Watch what you enjoy, don't watch what you don't. If a reboot/remake is truly bad, it'll make itself known. So called "fans" don't need to clamor for everyone involved in it's creation to be launched out of a catapult into the sun.

[@maxxam3590]

My wife is a normie and also way younger than I am, so she knew of Thundercats but never actually watched it. Then when they released the intro of Roar I showed her he original 80s intro and she said "that's pretty cool and awesome". Then I showed her scenes from the 2011 show and she didn't quite like it, but agreed that it was pretty well made. Then I showed her the intro of Roar, and I regret not having recorded her reaction. She was in shock, and said "is this a joke?! Seems like a joke! Like mockery!"

[@Teamo86]

Yeah that's how it felt like to me, when I watched promotional Videos of Thunderchats Roar: like mockery.

[@tino9117]

That's cause it is! Literally a parody show!

[@maxxam3590]

@@tino9117 A parody show can be good. Teen Titans GO! is a grand example. I'm not a fan of it, but my nieces loved it and when I watched it with them it was pretty well made. Thundercats Roar wasn't well made, and it didn't respect the viewers or the market. You can make a parody, but if you antagonize the viewers or the market, you pay the price. You said "it's a parody" as if that means something. Sure it's a parody, but is it good? Is it good as a show, or as a parody? Are the creators in touch with what the people and the market want?

[@BossReo]

"Mommy, why is the talking toy man hitching his wagon to the worst horse possible?"

[@SuperWolsey]

More like a euthanized pony at that

[@necrojoker6096]

because he wants to lose subs, honey.

[@RadicalRickEntertainment]

16:47 "Action sequences to rival every other cartoon that has ever been made" Dude have you ever even SEEN any other action cartoon???? Roar Is hot garbage are you on drugs perhaps?

[@PocketGojira]

The big problem comparing Roar with the reboots of TMNT or Transformers is that those brands have been fairly consistent in output. There's this unspoken fear that, especially after a long hiatus, the new jokey take becomes the de facto version in the public eye; devaluing, or even erasing, previous entries. And it's not an unfounded fear either. Adult Swim's parody reboots pretty much supplanted the original Space Ghost and Birdman. Both Transformers and the Turtles even had their own simplified "CalArts" (for lack of a better word) entries, and they too came with backlash. Those takes survived better because their franchises have been more consistently active. Transformers Animated shared the spotlight with the Bay films, and later some well regarded games. Rise of the TMNT coexisted with the IDW comics, and countless video game and app appearances harking back to older versions. Also, neither of those entries were following up a beloved entry, canceled too soon, with an active fanbase pushing for a comeback like both Teen Titans and Thundercats had.

[@DiscipleDojo]

This is the first Secret Galaxy video that I've ever seen with a poor take.

[@laguaridadelgremlin]

Whether it's good or poor, it's a genuine take. And there's merit in that, particularly when your relevance and show are at stake.

[@DiscipleDojo]

@@laguaridadelgremlin it is indeed genuine. But I think it's a genuinely bad take and lacks the level-headedness Dan normally exhibits. This one felt more like a bitter rant.

[@channelsofash]

It seemed like Warner Brothers and Cartoon Network had way too many wars with fans instead hiring someone to find a way to bring skeptical fans on board. Instead of a charm offense for Thunder Cats Roar it was wage a battle that only reinforced negative feelings.

[@lipranditoys]

I have no nostalgia for the original cartoon, I didn't watch the 2011 reboot, but i can say why the Thundercats Roar are a bad product. It's not because they make fun of an '80s kids show, it's because they are not funny: the jokes in all this kind of childish animation (and apparently many comedies today) is always based on a limited number of cliche, a fast pace that gets mistaken for comedic timing and never, absolutely never counting on actual jokes. It's dumbing down the quality of the entertainment. One can try and defend Teen Titans Go and Thundercats Roar all day long, in the end the truth is that they are decadent, poor quality entertainment even for kids, because they are so dumbed down that pose no challenge, and without challenge there's no growth. In other words, just crap.

[@lipranditoys]

There's a difference between saying that people shouldn't be whining pretending that the use of a corporate brand offends them (which is right of course), and pretending that all products are worth the same. Some things are just decadent crap, even if there's someone who likes them.

[@GWolfV3]

Original Thundercats is a series I loved from a distance then engaged with and realised...wow that intro is advertising a much better show than you get XD

[@BonusEggs4Sale]

0:19 Correction: For the unforgivable "crime" of being embarrassing crap. It's okay to negatively pan bad entertainment. This show has done it often.

[@TeddyMcgiggles]

Plot twist, Dan was secretly one of the producers on Thundercats Roar.

[@TerryTrowbridge]

The 2011 show was a fun reboot. I watched it and was bummed when the canned it.

[@Dreadjaws]

I need to say a couple of things here. 1) Do you know who was a big fan of Batman? Joel Schumacher. Do you know who wasn't? Tim Burton. Now which one of those did two good Batman movies and which one did two bad ones? Being a fan of a property doesn't guarantee you're going to do a good job with it because being a fan is not a skill. 2) It's also curious how apparently, according to you, being a fan is OK when they're offering praise to this show but it's a bad thing when they're not. I'm not gonna lie: I don't like the tone of this video. I've seen this sort of thing many times before (though not in this channel that I remember), where someone disagrees with someone else's opinion and rather than respecting it they feel the need to invalidate it. If your first thought is "everyone who didn't like this series hates fun, it's not really a fan and doesn't have an actual personality" then maybe reevaluate your own opinion and consider people might have entirely legitimate reasons not to like it instead of being a massive prick about it all while pretending you're the only voice of reason.

[@TheEmeraldWeirdo]

In Joel Schumacher's defense, WB kind of forced him to make Batman Forever and Batman & Robin they way he did due to parents complaining about WB selling toys based off of the rather dark Batman and Batman Returns. Schumacher actually wanted to continue the tone Burton set up, but WB's executives basically said, "No, you need to make a toy commercial."

[@Dreadjaws]

@@TheEmeraldWeirdo I mean, sure, but even he himself ended up accepting the blame, claiming that as a director he should have found a balance, which he didn't. After all, all directors have to work under studio demands, and you need to be skilled to release a good movie regardless of it.

[@Dai_Tallsian]

I'm just going to say it. Joel Schumacher made one bad batman movie. Batman Forever is great.

[@BennyHill74]

It’s like he’s auditioning for some other job that also like to degrade fans of original properties.

[@Derekivery]

Man did Secret Galaxy shat the bed on this one. No one should harass anyone because they don't like a cartoon, just don't watch WHICH is what most people did. But this was a fundamentally flawed show. It was based off of something popular from the 80s but adamantly did not want to cater to fans of the 80s show and wanted to bring in a younger audience, the same audience who had no interest in the IP for the past 30 years. Can't blame the old fans for not likely something that wasn't geared to them when the new fans didn't like it either. I was a fan of Teen Titans cartoon, but when they went to Teen Titans GO I didn't like the shift so I didn't watch. Guess what, millions of young kids loved GO! And it is one of the most successful cartoons out there. So me saying "it's not for me" didn't hurt the show in the least, they captured a fanbase without me. ROAR, failed to do that, that's 100% on them. It failed because it could not find a market, not because OG fans hated it. Two things can be true at the same time yet have nothing to do with one another.

[@ChaosUnfold]

But like seriously, WTF was these folks thinking when they greenlit this turd?

[@JRKonungrinn]

It's kinda weird how hard you're defending this show and apparently mad at people who didn't like it. It's not like people who didn't like it could actually affect the show, if it's gone there just weren't enough people liking & watching. I dunno man, when I was a kid we had intelligent and interesting cartoons like Gargoyles and Batman TAS, and Marvel's Spider-Man. Maybe if these new shows weren't churning out idiot-brain drivel as if kids have no minds, they'd do better.

[@JustMantisThings]

The people against started a huge movement to get it canceled…

[@Elemenace]

Thundercats 2011 GANG💯💯💯

[@theblocksays]

I was actually getting invested in that show, and Young Justice, AND Green Lantern...and CRAPTOON NETWORK pulled the whole rug from under us around 2012ish and replaced it with TeenTitans Go! marathons indefinitely I was pissed! Roar is just TTG with a Thundercats re-skin and nobody can change my mind. It felt like more salt on a wound years later.

[@tigerbread78]

Roar was greenlit because it was cheap, never mind all that "fresh approach" nonsense

[@AussieDragoon]

It was greenlit because Teen Titans Go was successful, hence the derivative title and tone.

[@tigerbread78]

@@AussieDragoon And it was cheap

[@tigerbread78]

@AussieDragoon In fact it looks even cheaper than Teen Titans go

[@nobodyimportant2470]

@@AussieDragoon TTG was the best rated show on CN not because it was good but because CN pulled everything better to stuff the lineup with more TTG.

[@tino9117]

The "fresh approach" bit is more so for why the creators made it, they wanted to do something they thought would be funny and entertaining as fans of the source material But ye to be honest, it was greenlit cause it looked like easy money thx to TTG being a success (for some reason)

[@ChillandQuill]

i think this is the appropiate quote we need "Is this some sort of out of season April Fool's Joke or something?" -Diablo Fan

[@charlescaine6022]

I noticed how you are allowed to be dismissive of the Thundercats "fans" but they aren't allowed to be dismissive of Roar. Let us look at Roars Rotten Tomatoes score shall we. The first season season has a impressive 19%.

[@Dsan805]

“Am I out of touch? No, it’s the children who are wrong”

[@JohnDoe-wq5eu]

Seriously Larson is doing his best Seymour Skinner impression over here. This show had the "hello fellow kids" energy all over it and that's why it was so firmly and completely rejected.

[@Horus070]

I’m curious what is the number of dislikes on this video though …

[@dwsh1]

2.1K

[@Horus070]

So he still got majority likes … i actually thought it would been worse, although the majority that watch did seem to neither decided to give like or dislike

[@johnkelly7920]

Wow, I never realized that voicing disappointment with a studios decision made me toxic. How dumb am I?

[@DocXango]

I don't need Dan or the channel to share my opinion, and I don't need to be insulted by them either.

[@FinalMasterM]

We're also willfully ignoring how those producing these halfbaked shows treat legacy fans, forgetting those fans are the ones with kids they're attempting to target.

[@johnkelly7920]

@@DocXango my point exactly

[@michaelmaguire4147]

@@DocXango I've been having a similar feeling lately, like whoever is writing the titles of episodes is really doing a disservice; they've been really negative lately and making me not want to watch the episodes as I enjoyed the shows they were about and don't want to watch something called "the disappointment of [title]"

[@sboinkthelegday3892]

John K.'s style is blatantly ripped off into corporate ownership in the form of Spongebob, replicating Ren and Stimpy as Squidward and Spongebob pretty blatantly, it's tyhe exact same thins as Miracle Star is to Amazing world of Gumball and John K. has every right to be resentful. This style IS visionary, and the "cal arts" style is broadly speaking stealing ONLY from John K. and Adventure Time. They are objectively NOT visionary, but derivative like Hayao Miyazaki would loathe. USA always does this China-style reappropriation, even Thundercats comes to mind because "anime" as such is a word that couldn't exist in Japan, since "cartoon" already equals "アニメ". What the word "Anime is FOR, is to whitewash all the "anime"" influence from shows like Thundercats and TMNT, despite produced by Toei's anime animators. Rebrand it, like cattle, under this broad US property of "non-anime" that gets compete with NORMAL cartoons. SPECIAL cartoons like "anime" go to reservations and weird time slots, branded as sexual and violent, more than teaching children to be mercenaries like The Avengers. And it goes deeper. "Normal" Americans distinguish even themselves from the 700 000 000 residents of the American continent, which is BIZARRE if you think so in any othe place, like Africa would have "Africans" and "native Africans". And you give this esteem to George Lucas and Tarantino, who copypaste styles of interantional auteurs like Sergio Leone and Akira Kurosawa. Batman throws his little Batarangs and not Shuriken, and instead of criticising Spanish imperialism, Bruce Wayne works more like, hmm, a little bit like Lavender AI of the Israeli government: with magical ability to DIRECT "righteous" justice, in the mind of the inquisitor and all the little recruits to US militaries before they're old enough to drink. CHILD SOLDIERS, that is, turtle defense of the splinter factions. So yeah, pretty toxic topic.

[@MSinistrari]

I'm subbed to this channel because I'm interested in the various toy/franchise history it covers and how well this channel covers them. This upload really does drop the ball. I was in my teens when the original show aired, so while I watched some, I really wasn't in the target demographic. I've watched bits of the 2011 reboot and it was an interesting take. I wish they had more time to roll with it. But Roar honestly deserved the flack it got, especially with how overly sensitive the creators were. While some fans were a bit excessive in their dislike of the show, most did have valid criticisms about the show. That those valid points just got lumped in with the outliers and written off does the valid commentators a disservice.

[@WaveGazer]

Grandpa is mad that you don't like "just a show y'all".

[@MysteriousStranger42]

A show he himself didn’t watch lol

[@andrewryan2149]

Having a go at fans being blinded by nostalgia when your channel is nothing but nostalgia is a bold strategy

[@axiss5840]

This was my main thought here. Bizarre that a channel all about covering old properties suddenly gets angrily defensive about THIS show, of all things. Roar isn't even an old enough show to be nostalgic about, I have no idea why they've made this episode.

[@SamuraiMotoko]

will give Mighty Orbots goodpoints for being "a show first and no a toyline", but even if Thundercats started development the same way, he will just see it as a toy commercial like all the others.

[@ChrisOsberg]

More than anything, this episode felt like a critique of the disgusting behavior displayed by a toxic, but vocal, minority whenever someone tries to do anything new with an old intellectual property. A lot of the time the stuff turns out to be bad, or not the same, but that doesn't excuse these so called "fans" from harassing people to the extent that they do. For example, I hate that in the new Star Wars films Ray became a jedi knight in a few hours, with no instruction, but I didn't go online and harass someone for it. I just didn't bother watching the 3rd movie. What Dan said is that a lot of the time these trolls go online and post abuse and arguments that don't hold any water--like how the "calarts style" criticism has no basis in fact. If fans want more of the stuff they like. They need to allow for other versions of it to be moderately successful, and not to try to destroy it. They can choose not to watch it. If they have to, they can post a well-thought out criticism. Then let some people actually enjoy it. Or trolls can torpedo anything different from what _THEY_ want, and they can accept their favorite thing is truly dead when no one ever dares to touch it again.

[@tino9117]

Do you.... Think he just praises every product he talks about in these vids? If anything he looks at a lot of them with cynicism, this is just the only one where he decided to give an actual take on the insane backlash

[@augiepires]

"Angrily defensive?" What? 😅

[@ZeroKhaoTiKz]

This show totally missed its mark. I am a fan of the OG series and I liked the 2011 series, as well. So, i was willing to give Roar a chance. I watched it with my daughter that wanted to see it because she thought it would be like Teen Titans Go or Steven Universe because of the style... Well, she hated the show. We got halfway through the first episode and she asked to watch something else. Not only that, but she questioned why i even liked Thundercats because the show was horrible. I told her the older shows were nothing like Roar and showed her some episodes of the OG series. She loved them and asked me why they didn't make it more like the original. I didn't have a good answer. So, I just told her sometimes they like making goofy spinoffs of great shows like Teen Titans Go. She didn't know what i was talking about and I realized she didn't remember the original Teen Titans so I put on a few of those and her reaction was like someone turned on a light switch. Every time she had a chance, she'd asked to watch more TT. I'm not going to lie, i was a little upset that she didn't want to rewatch the original Thundercats anymore. At the time of Roar, my daughter was around 11-12. She was definitely in the target demo of those they wanted watching Roar. The show was horrible. So even though there was a small minority of fanatics that were loud online, the show itself made a mockery of the OG series, itself and any fans it could have had.

[@jnerdsblog]

Nice anecdote, but really it's only that.

[@KamisamanoOtaku]

Not a great video, unless the entire thing is a joke where you do the thing your accusing others of doing. *If this was some epic trolling, kudos for the dedication!* Seems to me like Dan does what he accuses others of doing. He's a fan of _ThunderCats Roar_ so anyone who didn't like it and especially who said they didn't online clearly weren't his kind of fans. Sadly, this is really common in fandoms; it is very easy to become a toxic fan by forgetting that *every* fandom has toxic fans.

[@mikerosopht3085]

So what exactly did the “haters” that Dan is vehemently railing against here supposedly do, other than voice an opinion that Roar was clearly terrible? Were there threats of violence or something? Other than the show’s abrupt cancellation, was there some type of tragedy that occurred? Dan really believes the studio has declared the IP as “toxic” because the fans rejected one terrible show? If so, I’ll gladly take the rights to T-cats off their hands for them!

[@jinxtheunluckypony]

I’m still sad Thunder Cats 2011 died on the vine. It was such a good show.

[@Dracounguis]

Dan seems to be taking the hatred of this show a bit personally. It's not The History Of Thundercats Roar, the video should be titled The Defense Of Thundercats Roar.

[@doro626]

I have to agree. Its like he wanted to do a "toxic fan" counter video and just hijacked this IP to do it.

[@Horus070]

Yes quite strange … and so late in the game …

[@piercingpencils_art]

I’m getting “I was a producer” feelings from this as well.

[@KJ-tz7vc]

There are certainly properties that would be a better example of toxic fandom than Thundercats Roar.

[@MKVarana]

@@doro626 The vibe I got, especially after his credits monologue, was that he was a fan of Roar, but never saw/liked the other versions, so he's kinda salty that fan hate cost him his show.

[@brotquel1592]

If Thundercats doesn't get another chance on the screen the fault lies not within the fans that complained, but within writers that made a wildly despised adaptation. "The client is always right" is a bullcrap sentence that will never d!e soon enough, "the client is always right ABOUT WHAT THEY LIKE" should be treated as the holy gospel: if I enter a vegan restaurant and ask for beef I am a Karen and should be treated as one, if I enter a restaurant and ask for a beef only to be served a piece of cardboard painted as a beef, the restaurant is garbage and deserves to lose clients. Teen Titans GO already had overwhelmingly negative reviews and, knowing this, they choose to apply the same treatment to Thundercats. The harassment was unjustified, as it always is, the failure is absolutely deserved. It the brand dies it's 100% fault of the producers of Roar.

[@FrogsAmok]

No

[@sespider]

THANK YOU! You have no idea how happy it makes me to see someone else agree with just how utterly stupid the "customer is always right" slogan is. It was NEVER to be used as they attempt to use it today. Your correct. Customers only know what THEY WANT. That does not entitle them to dictate how a business is ran. That all said, ThunderCats has a very long history and dedicated fan base. So long as the source material is respected, then those old customers will accept the new menu. However; if you toss out everything respectful about the franchise and purposely alienate those loyal fans, then no one is gonna look at your menu, let alone order the slop from it. And that's exactly what TCR was. Slop.

[@tino9117]

This comment is painfully misguided, the "quality" of an iteration means nothing to the executives that put their money into it, YES the fans complaining was in fact the reason, and YES, a lot of the complaining was mostly harassment and bad faith, perhaps some were more genuine in their critique, or it just wasn't for them, I think alot of the people making it look worse than it actually was may have deterred people away from giving it a fair chance, the backlash lead to it getting delayed and quietly released, the delay and quiet release led to low viewership, low viewership lead to them just not wanting to bother with it

[@tylerdestroyer91]

Lmfao

[@brotquel1592]

@@tino9117 Talk about misguided. Even by your standards, it's still 100% the creator's fault for its failure: guess whose responsability it is to advertise a product and make it look appealing? Hint: it's not the audience's. You create a product the fan don't want, you don't make it appealing, you don't advertise it... you fail! It's the creator's job to produce, it's the audience HOBBY to consume. The audience has no duty to fill the gaps for the creator's shortcomings.

[@hiivolume]

i read some of the creators of Roar thought the OG show was silly, that kind of mean spirited parody of the 80s Thundercats really shines through. its probably why Dan (someone who doesnt like Thundercats) finds Roar so funny.

[@Jetsetradio]

Victor, the show runner, was very open about how much his brothers liked the og show. This felt very much like a spiteful little sibling breaking his older brothers toys because they probably beat the hell out of him as a kid.

[@AuxCart]

​@@JetsetradioThey followed the tried and true DCU method of hiring!

[@tonyramos1031]

I like the history part of the video but it's odd with a non thundercats fan talking down to fans of the original series/toys

[@ravagingwolverine666]

When they unveiled Thundercats Roar in 2018, I thought it looked horrible. Still do. I talked about it with people, but that's about it. I'm not one to get obsessed with things I don't like, so I just moved on. I smugly moved on assuming it would fail hard, and was right, like so many others. You can say it was a different show meant for a different audience, but that misses something big which was at the heart of the backlash. If the goal was a different show to attract a different audience, then there was no reason to use an existing property other than not wanting to actually create something new. They used Thundercats assuming that a decent chunk of the existing fan base, however small, would be a built-in audience upon which to build. They wanted the boost from the name value. However, they did not account for the existing fans having no interest in a change of tone and Sunday comic-strip visual style, even though that was pretty obvious outside of their industry bubble. That's the nature of taking an existing concept and changing it drastically. I'm also not aware of any of the online backlash to Roar in any way preventing the "new audience" it wanted from finding or enjoying it since that audience wouldn't really know or care about that. I also disagree, though this is only speculation, that had Roar been successful, we would have seen a revival of the property as an action-adventure show too. It's possible, but it's also just as possible it would have made the property permanently into a zany gag show, especially since that would be far easier to make since the writing would be less important and....that art style. Yes, some of the reaction was over the top. There's always going to be some of that, but plenty of level-headed people had the same reaction to the unveiling of the show. The problem was the show.

[@OLDSKOOLNYC1]

It was DOA upon announcement. I remember the KZbin video announcing it had like a 600 to 1 dislike to like ratio! I think that led to KZbin disabling the like ratio bar. I never saw such a ratio that looked like a short hilt Sith lightsaber!

[@SkittleKicksPlays]

What lead to the dislike number removal was due to the negative results the White House was seeing on their channel. "It makes us feel bad." Yeah we can't have criticisms anymore.

[@MonoSimio]

Dude, the internet doesn't represent shit in the real world. Nobody cares about these things outside of this space.

[@ashnodmtg]

for fun I went and looked up the trailer, 8.9k up vote vs 123k downvote. (I have the dislike extension). side note my comment on that video "is this an april fools joke" is still live lol

[@laurencefraser]

@@SkittleKicksPlays Here's the best part: they didn't actually remove the dislike display from the Creator's page (well, they might have by now, but if so they waited litterally years to do so), only from the Audience, where it was actually very useful information. So it got to keep right on hurting the creator's feelings, but NOT lead to viewers not watching bad content.

[@Allthistomfoolery]

@@laurencefraser nope it still there, Secret galaxy get to see how much we hate this video, it actually has a like ratio. and I'm sure this one looks like crap compared to their other vids.

[@scionkai2524]

Loved this channel for a long time and still do, but can't get behind a positive spin on Thundercats Roar... It was a pure shit show. Not every show that gets criticism is simply unwarranted "fan" overreaction, there are actual shitty shows coming out that would do better to create their own ideas rather than take someone else's work, bastardize it, and say they are "making it their own" and subverting expectations. There is nothing more played out in modern media than that ridiculous cycle. And SG pivoting to making op-eds serving up open letters of disdain towards viewers who don't embrace this sort of tripe would be a bad decision for the longevity of this KZbin channel. SMH

[@laurencefraser]

At this point, being terrible isn't even subverting expectations. For those with any expectations at all, that's the expected outcome.

[@necrojoker6096]

time to unsub i guess.

[@davidanderson4748]

The derisive tone against the people who didn’t like the show was a bit much. They have the right to their opinion, same as those who thought the show was fine. People have the right to react to shows or even designs in anyway they want. The fact that it was such a failure shows maybe the quality wasn’t there. When Batman TAS was first previewed in Comics Scene magazine, many fans were worried about or downright upset with the simple cartoony character designs. But the quality of the show won fans over to the point its beloved. When it became apparent the designs serviced the style and story, they were embraced. Same with Transformers Animated. Older fans were not super keen on the designs, but once they saw them in action in service to quality storytelling, it won people over. Roar was a big departure, which is always a risk. It didn’t pan out and pissed people off. Had it been great, or even really good, instead of “fine” maybe it would have converted fans. But just being a departure isn’t good enough. Also, if the words of a few angry fans are to blame for its failure, then everyone involved needs to grow a thicker skin or get out of the business of entertainment. Blaming the fans when a show or movie fails to earn an audience is a trick studios like to play, but it’s dishonest and below the usually high standards of this channel.

[@mittensfastpaw]

I was one of those people who looked at Transformers Animated before it hit and thought it would be awful. I was proven wrong though and it ended up being a quality show I wish we got more of.

[@101Mant]

​@@mittensfastpawI could never get into Animated the visual style just doesn't work for me. However lots of people like it, many who like you were skeptical so it clearly did something right. It never seems to have disrespected the IP or the fans. Initial bad reactions can be overcome if you make something good.

[@latrellboddie8906]

@@101Mant Animated was in my opinion really good, probably one of the best in the franchise. Also, it actually embraced the franchise in many ways. There were so many references to different incarnations, some that were really obscure.

[@tonygalvan2279]

Oh wow I cant wait to see the ratio on this one... so did you get tips from the guys doing velma that hatewatch is the way to go because YIKES!...

[@themoviereviewwarriors939]

I love how any time some one does not like something they are irrational or foaming at the mouth. Considering that Thundercat's roar tanked and was canceled even this younger modern day audience did not like it. The show was garbage which is why it did not last. I hate this idea that people must just shut up and consume any garbage the entertainment industry produces these days.

[@tino9117]

Forever misunderstanding

[@JohnDoe-wq5eu]

I mean the market spoke clearly. People could have said whatever they wanted but if the kids wanted it or were watching it it wouldn't have mattered what anyone else said. But they very clearly rejected it just like the other fans. Even people that didn't know what thundercats was looked at that show and we're disgusted by it. And even the people that "kinda" liked it I just don't think could have held up the entire show anyway. The show was doomed from the get-go, and the fact that WB has completely buried it tells me they knew exactly what the reaction was.