The Empire That Is A Game | Culture

[@carolynallisee2463]

'The Player of Games' was the first Culture novel I read, courtesy of a colleague who was part of the book swap club I was in. What I enjoyed, and enjoy, about the Culture series is that whilst each is part of the series, the series universe is so vast that each book can stand by itself- you don't have to read any of the others unless you want to. 'The Player of Games' takes the idea of the game through many different levels. Even the identity of the narrator is turned into a guessing game. For Gurgeh, the lack of thrills in gaming and life in general in the Culture, leads him down a dark path whose dangers are far more than he bargained for. To then find out he had been literally played, his every move plotted, planned, and shaped so that he would take the assignment regardless, showed him that, as good as he was at playing games, there were others who were better, and didn't scruple at using people as game pieces to get the desired results.

[@ArtemisScribe]

It was the first book I read in the Culture too. And I loved it but I've struggled to get into the others. Is there one you would recommend that has a similar feel to Player of Games?

[@carolynallisee2463]

@@ArtemisScribe I don't think there is another that feels like 'Player of Games'. Whilst they all end with the situation in them being resolved (but not without cost to some characters), some end in a lighter mood, others, darker. The only one I can think of where the protagonist ends up in a kind of neutral state is 'The Hydrogen Sonata ', the very last SF book Banks wrote.

[@skateboardingjesus4006]

@@carolynallisee2463 Ah yes, the bodily acoustic antagonistic undecagonstring. A tad on the hard side to play. The Hydrogen Sonata had me laughing a lot.

[@Shamino1]

@@ArtemisScribe Try 'Inversions' for the least Culture-Culture book, or 'Excession' for the most Culture Culture book.

[@CCCW]

Exactly. As vast and incomprehensible as the game Azad might seem, the Minds of the culture are basically playing a far more complex version of it, over the whole galaxy. And neither their true motives, nor their identity is revealed.

[@dalellll]

The way Banks created tension in the train scene, when the other guy starts to suspect he has cheated, blew me away when i first read it. I was amazed at the way he solved the old problem of "how do you have conflict and tension in a utopian society" in that scene - in a different way than the usual method of setting the story on the fringes.

[@secretsofdune]

That's interesting because Azad in Arabic/Farsi/Kurdish means unrestrained, Independent, liberated, not imprisoned or enslaved or simply "free."

[@levimnm9152]

Who asked ? Nobody cares.

[@ConkerKing]

And that is the cynical lie at the heart of this ruling system...

[@hellablackie4523]

@@levimnm9152bro get a fucking life and please partake in some deep introspection

[@Adamlevaan]

@@levimnm9152 u clearly do care😀

[@davidwuhrer6704]

Interesting. Banks liked to put obscure cultural references in his earlier books. I think the name is not a coincidence.

[@jtjames79]

Reminds me of an old hacker saying "if you aren't cheating you aren't trying".

[@tagair211]

This book was my gateway into the Culture series. Really enjoyed it

[@modolief]

Me too!

[@pyronixcore]

Mine as well! Loved it! Then I was advised to go back to Consider Phlebas and follow the book chronology

[@herbf2700]

I loved this book! The description of the game was so fascinating. The game was never entirely explained, but aspects of it were so weird. The biologicals. The room sized boards with terrain. I think I'm going to re-read this one.

[@lostbutfreesoul]

I admire that move, to never explain how the game was played but to hint that it has components of every other game. There is a reason I consider Iain M. Banks to be a genius, even if his actual writing ability is less then his creativity.

[@JRussellDay]

If you liked the game, definitely check out "the glass bead game" by Hermann Hesse, it's an obvious influence on this book and has those same game features.

[@ZamWeazle]

@@JRussellDay Ulesss Banks mentioned it somewhere it can only be speculated that it was an influence. Some may stories and concepts have similarities but unless he read it. We won't actually know

[@leostarrs-cunningham8576]

I've always wondered how much it was influenced by The Glass Bead Game by Herman Hesse

[@abdulhameedansari9459]

Ghost in the shell! Laughing man. Didn't s ee

[@Zen-t2j]

@@abdulhameedansari9459 I thought what'd I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf mutes.

[@RendallRen]

Great insight! I think essential. I'm sure this book would not have been written if The Glass Bead Game had not been written.

[@JRussellDay]

Yeah was gonna say, its definitely worth at least looking at the glass bead game for a comparison.

[@eduardo318]

Love the book, it also show how far the Culture goes to intervene in others civilization. Even on their own people.

[@lostbutfreesoul]

I will always find that one line in the book, where Jernau asks if he was created for this purpose and is *not informed* of the answer... perfect.

[@JDSleeper]

They're very not-Federation. They don't have a Prime Directive. They love to interfere.

[@Tiberon098]

I was good, probably one of the best sci-fi novels I have read in a long time

[@hughcaldwell1034]

​@@lostbutfreesoul I believe he is given an answer. Flere Imsaho says, "You're wondering if we somehow set you up..." and goes on to say that if the Culture did stuff like that, it wouldn't need outside mercenaries to do "the really dirty work".

[@dreadogastusf3548]

"The good of the many versus the good of the one."

[@scottrackley4457]

In the end, the lesson from "The Player of Games", was that Jernau Morat Gurgeh himself was but a piece that Flere-Imsaho was playing.

[@danieldufaur]

One of my all time favourite books. I'm a massive fan of all the Culture books as well as all of Ian Banks work. This was the second book I read after Consider Phlebas which I think is the best intro to the Culture.

[@neutral_narr]

Wait is Player of Games the best intro or Consider Phlebas?

[@danieldufaur]

@@neutral_narr Either really but for me Consider Phlebas is the best intro but Player of Games is also a great first Iain M Banks Culture book.

[@nilothesage]

I just wanna say thank you for everything you talk about on this channel. I grew up on the rez, so a lot of significant sci-fi pop culture went past my radar. Thanks to you Quinn, I feel like I'm catching up amd learning so much about hidden themes and meaningful messaging. Thank you

[@MrJudeWanamaker]

I grew up unaware of most of sci-fi and also love this channel for the spot light it shines of such wonderful books

[@mohammedarmanulhaq]

If u like this channel, u will surely love "Media Death Cult" channel too🤘

[@skateboardingjesus4006]

There are some good sci-fi channels out there, but I have a fondness for the attention to context and the appropriate mood Quinn brings to his content.

[@davidwuhrer6704]

What is "the rez"?

[@MRAIClassroom]

Speaking for the poster… the rez is a term for “an Indian reservation”

[@alistairewu7368]

I was pleasantly surprised to see "Uploaded 2 hours ago". I discovered the series last year and have just finished reading the last of them. It's sad that such a talented author passed away before his time, but it's great to see that people are still talking about the Culture books :)

[@annesofiestisen239]

Loosing him and Terry Pratchett, both such great storytellers, so close to each other, was such a blow to my reading- desire for a loooong time.

[@robertvernon789]

Not passed before his time. His works moved me and made me question many things. His work was right on time. RIP Mr. Banks.

[@tristanlawson5371]

Thank you, Quinn! One of my favorite aspects of the book was just how Gurgeh strategy to beat the emperor was described. To this day it's still one of the most Cultur-esque things I remember from the series!

[@cdrain68]

This is one of Elon Musk's favourite books, so much that his ex Grimes released a song called "Player of Games" and there was an attempt to make a film of it in the 1990s though I doubt that there will be a Culture based series for many years.

[@AlbertaGeek]

It is? That's ironic. Musk liking this book is like those right-wingers who enjoy Rage Against The Machine. They're both clueless that _they're_ "the baddies."

[@idc0459]

Also has a song about darkseid. The one who controls a large part of the world with what is more or less technology. Funny how that works, right

[@dreyri2736]

​@@idc0459 Musk evidently does not control a "large part of the world" Left-wingers have a very skewed perception and idea of power and how it works but that's normal for a group that continually misconstrues their own language by turning words like "privilege" into something they are not.

[@noluck5721]

I love this book. The way Banks makes you think about Empires and AI and our own society here through discovering Azad together with the Culture main character is truly fantastic. Very well written, I laughed and was horrified and fascinated chapter by chapter. There is also quite a bit of game theory in this book, and as Quinn mentioned, the connection between that and our reality. “A guilty system recognizes no innocents." is my favourite quote from this one; one which will make sense if you read the book and connect some dots to our current society. Loved the review, Quinn! When I need new amazing Sci-Fi to read, I always check your channel first for recommendations, and oh boy, thanks for those because I loved them. You are a fantastic source ♥

[@zeliardforty-two4692]

Definitely will have to find this one. I always loved the metaphor of how life is just a game. Your level of involvement effects the world around you and “a simple role of the dice” can instantly change the outcome. No matter how well you stack your deck, a simple coin toss can make your tower fall Ya I know I’m trying to hard for a simple comment! Just love your content

[@badensnaxx5804]

I remember a race, in a Sci fi story, that had a society based on chance, sometimes gambling with your life. Every doorway used, calculated the odds of whether it turned into a guillotine & sliced you up, or not. The odds changed on where the doorway led, they dropped if it was a route to a high ranking job, or position, so less survived.

[@mybalcony4066]

What was the story?

[@trevorcourtney7457]

IMB.....probably the greatest SF novelist ever. Love his stuff.

[@jgoemat]

POG is a little slow and unusual among the culture novels in how it focuses so heavily on one character. Most of the culture novels have several story lines with vastly different perspectives intertwined, but here we are following a single Culture citizen throughout the novel and a single linear story. Most of my favorite parts of the Culture novels are the crowning moments of awesome. Normally these take form as conflicts between ships and minds, but one of my favorites is in POG when Gurgeh has all but given up on winning a game until he learns what his opponent is watching on TV at night.

[@camerona5778]

I just had meniscus surgery, being stuck in bed for weeks sucks. But I’m so stoked that you dropped a video!! It made my day

[@emperorarasaka]

Get well soon 🫂

[@robertkeaney9905]

That's the worst, dude. Same thing happened to me back in high school. I hope your recovery goes well.

[@jhwheuer]

I liked the idea that language heavily influences thinking.

[@davidwuhrer6704]

It's a concept from linguistics called the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis.

[@dreyri2736]

Gene Wolfe quite interestingly denies the hypothesis in his Book of the New Sun series. It includes an ultra communist culture on earth whose entire language consists of approved slogans from texts referred to as "correct thought" Thing is, intelligent Ascians(name of culture) can still express meanings that exceed those approved sentences.

[@tuumef1799]

I love sci-fi like this. Deep exploration of systems and people. I may start this series thanks to you. Thanks for the quality video.

[@JRussellDay]

Also, while you're looking at Iain M. Banks, I would definitely recommend reading his Iain Banks novel "the Wasp Factory" it's not sci fi, but it is sooo good!

[@fburton8]

That, Sir, was the best summing up and recommendation of PoG I have ever heard or read.

[@Joerg31415]

My favorite book of the series... Thanks for your insights!

[@UncleMuin]

Every book in the culture series tackles a different "unfair" aspect of the human experience. I love these books for the thoughts they spawn.

[@skateboardingjesus4006]

This was Banks first full-length Culture novel and a powerful introduction to it. I have to say that Flere Imsaho is probably the most fascinating sentient drone in the whole Culture universe.

[@davidwuhrer6704]

I felt really sorry for all the things Flere-Imsaho had to put up with. But as a character I find Mawhrin-Skel more interesting 😉

[@TheAstroWitchLux]

I guessed Flere Imsaho's secret early on, just because I didn't believe in coincidences and that Contact would listen to Gurgeh's demand so easily.

[@anguscampbell3020]

No Consider Phlebas was the first book published, the fist story Banks came up with in the Culture series was Use of Weapons but his first draft was too complicated so he wrote Consider Phlebas and published that instead. Player of Games was the second published book though it is recommended to new readers as a better first entry to the Culture series than Consider Phlebas.

[@skateboardingjesus4006]

@@anguscampbell3020 Sorry, you're correct, I forgot about Consider Phlebas. The one that reads least like a Culture book, is Inversions and my favourite is Matter. But my favourite Banks novel will always be The Algebraist.

[@skateboardingjesus4006]

@@davidwuhrer6704 Mawhrin Skel's full motives to have physically attacked and attempt to blackmail a Culture citizen fascinate me. The results give a devilish insight into the Culture's dark underbelly.

[@unicyclist97]

The Player of Games remains one of my favourite books of all time. Stunning idea and so concisely delivered.

[@meneerlagerwaard2047]

Interestingly enough, there's a philosopher who argued that language is comparable to a game that we play (a language game). Our capacity to communicate through language is what allows us to reach abstractions, shared ideas, and thus a culture as opposed to a mere community. Which means that our society too is basically a game we play. A game of words.

[@Mrszelko]

Im so happy i discovered you friend, your like " Yo wanna listen bout other universes? " Ur my new routine, I listen to u on my way from work to Home, ur videos are best after dark. Thank you for your work.

[@robertvernon789]

Please do: Surface Detail and Matter. Matter features a few scenes that really speak to how fast and rough SC moves (it even has a "Trench Run"), when they want to. Surface Detail, is just. Well, crossing my fingers. Oh the Hydrogen Sonata was excellent as well.

[@gabrielgonzalez1993]

One of the best most capturing books I’ve ever read

[@crushivintage]

Your channel and messages are fantastic. Thank you for being honest.

[@durwoodmaccool890]

Recently re read this as part of MDC's Culture read along, I'd always liked it, but this time around I was really blown away by it. Just the quality of the writing, the way it hammers it's ideas home and how much fun it is. Almost as good as Use of Weapons.

[@fuffoon]

I'm glad I tried it. I'm halfway through the first book and enjoying it. I was intimidated by its length, but it's easy to read and follow. Each chapter poses a mystery to be opened later. Without a good story to keep me company, I would fall back into depression and drug abuse.

[@arnoldrivas4590]

What a great video to watch. And just before work too. Thank you

[@Lifesplitters]

Love your videos! Would adore to hear about more of the Starflier in the Commonwealth series!

[@uktenatsila9168]

The only time I get spoiled is when I watch your videos. Thank you Quinn.

[@thainemartin5766]

Had to exit as soon as I figured out what book this was about. Currently listening to it. Great work on the videos!

[@sinecron6684]

We've missed you Quinn, welcome back... -Sarasti and the Captain

[@stephanbachofen9518]

This was the first culture novel I read, and it got me hooked. I highly recommend it.

[@akiyrjana6558]

Thanks, Quinn, again . This is my second fave of the Culture series, the top one being the Use of Weapons.

[@DarylSuttie]

This was the first Banks/Culture novel I read. So good.

[@bazoo513]

This is one of very few _TPoG_ reviews that focus on, I think, obvious way in which it speaks of real world society. At the same time it provides, especially for a Culture novices, a fine introduction to _that_ far more rational society, warts and all.

[@wormbrain1]

YAS! I love that you are doing more Culture stuff. Player of Games is great.

[@jewittm]

Always here for culture content

[@meinuser1]

YES! This is my favourite Culture-book

[@dirtbag5408]

Excellent Brother!!!! Thank you. We need a Jenau Morat Gurgeh! Or an event like his win to hopefully wake more of us up.

[@saucedbutleaking6558]

This is the first video of your that I've come across (thanks, /r/TheCulture!). I like the way you present the point of the novel and I'd love to see a deeper dive on this book (or others). You get it, and you present the social commentary in an accessible way and it'd be great to see you go below the surface

[@robrick9361]

Sounds like Seto Kaiba's dream world.

[@tombrogden5503]

i just finished this reading book last night and started reading Use of Weapons, thank you for introducing me to the Culture series

[@scottabc72]

I very rarely reread books but I think Im going to make an exception for this, this review reminded me of so much I had forgotten

[@Testytimes22]

I have really enjoyed watching Quinns growth and success. Dude, don't hide your face. lol.

[@SP-ny1fk]

We are moving to a decentralised power structure (away from the traditional pyramid, top-down system of control) however the system of control still exists, just metastasised to the whole body of mankind - inextricable, and impossible to overthrow through traditional revolution or by discrediting the system - because the individual is the system, and the system is the individual.

[@nordicson2835]

Another book l have to read , you my friend have never made a suggestion did not completely enjoy. I appreciate you , your channel and your thoughts. Thank you.

[@RidleyJones]

So interesting! I wonder if this was influenced at all by the Borges story "The Lottery in Babylon"? I really need to check these books out.

[@johnnylayton1672]

All this time wrestling with life as a stage and now I've got to start all over again thanks a lot scifi

[@lilbear9992]

Just finished it, great book! Looking forward to reading the rest of the series

[@Ricotraficante]

I been lost without quinns updates

[@nonyabiz9340]

Freaking KZbin finally recommends a Quinn video after he uploaded 4 vids in 8 days.

[@gummygal008]

the logical endpoint of ranked competitive games

[@Dennis-ky6ec]

Thanks Quinn, again a new book that caught my interest ! Maybe next time, you can cover something about the strange and mysterious worlds of Jack Vance. He is one of my favorite SF authors and he has influenced many other writers.

[@justinjakob3954]

The Dying Earth is one of my favorites, Vance is a great author as well. Some people, I would imagine, who read it might be uncaring for the mixture of science fiction and fantasy. As Quinn seems to focus of science fiction, it might not be his forte.

[@BijuuBerry]

I recently discovered your channel. I love you.

[@dreadogastusf3548]

At the beginning of the video realized that I had not read this Banks book. The spoiler warning was much appreciated. Iain Banks is/was a great writer. I want to read this one fresh. I wrote is/was because while Mr. Banks has died, his writing wil live on for many a year.

[@JB52520]

We're definitely living the Azad dream.

[@Tatermand]

Hey Quinn, the cover character is from the EVE online universe. I don't think it could get you in trouble, but just wanted to give you a heads up.

[@ClipStreamSage]

That intro synth hit extra hard lol

[@ameanasaur]

Faireness in terms of game theory is one of the bigger arcs. It is achieved partially by payoffs and the behaviours that exhibit or inhibit that. What happens when these rules no longer rule our lives but they still exist? The Player Of Games.

[@ThePa1riot]

Having read the book myself, I didn't see a lot of the real world in Azad. If anything, I saw more commonalities in the Culture itself with the real world. At least, in terms of what people expect out of life if not what everyone gets. (Because we're not post-scarcity yet.) Azad struck me as something, well, alien. Like this planet is the Other compared to the "normal" that is the Culture, where our protagonist comes from and what he is used to. Thus, the normal state the reader is meant to project onto and find Azad to be the strange world along with him. I also do like that Special Circumstances have some parallels with the CIA or other government intelligence agencies. That even though they're on your side, they're willing to use you as an asset without telling you the full story. Just as Special Circumstances did with Jenau. Sure, the Minds knew he'd pull through, but he didn't know that! So I like that Banks wasn't so blinded by the Culture's good that he didn't allow them to be flawed or leave no room to question their/its benevolence.

[@lachlanwilliams5818]

Reminds me of the line from Fallout New Vegas, "The Game was Rigged from the Start".

[@jackhurley1428]

This book was my gateway to sci fi. I will always have a soft spot for it!

[@LtCaveman]

Damn, and here I thought this video was about EVE Online from the thumbnail......

[@coryhafer7285]

Children of time, don't forget to continue with that series too.

[@QKuKier]

there's a manga called "usogui" about games and game systems, if you're into that check it out, it evolves the longer you read

[@Shibumi2060]

As usual, Quinn provides insightful perspectives on The Culture and its post-scarcity, post-singularity civilization. One aspect of the book Quinn didn’t mention is the role a certain AI character plays in manipulating the protagonist into taking the mission, and the role that character plays later on (no spoilers). It’s an interesting take on how self-aware AI could interact in a very real way with humans.

[@alm08e]

Actually pausing this vid @ 3:10 or so. Gonna give this a read and return!

[@RedFenianPunk1916]

Totally agree in highly recommending this novel! I read it about 16 years or so ago and loved it. A great plot twist and I loved the political commentary too and how it managed to steer clear of the doomer pessimism which sadly has become all too common in recent years. Definitely a nice change from both kitsch idealism and the bleak pessimism which has reacted against that. A more solid approach, which is much needed in science fiction!

[@SimonDouville1]

Sci-fi books that really challenged my view on the world is Ursula K. Le Guins work. either The Dispossessed of the Left Hand of Darkness.

[@chadbasedwick8517]

That was the first Ian Banks book I read.

[@sabata2]

I saw the video title. Thought to myself "This sounds a lot like that book I read a long time ago "The Player of Games". I'ma go in and comment about the books existence." >Finds out the video is actually about that exact book. Well :)

[@Alpenjodler1]

I think this one was my favourite culture book

[@CptGlassback]

This is my Fav Culture book

[@maxasaurus3008]

Cool ring man, that’s badass.

[@jhwheuer]

LOVED this book

[@Person_Not_Known]

Yea...this is one of the books that opens your eyes to the reality of this world...and makes you depressed. I'm not nihilistic, I've come to the understanding of what I can personally do but I was depressed for a bit.

[@jernaugurgeh8110]

My favorite book of all time .I just can't tell you what high praise I give this novel. I've even used the name of the main character as my onlíne name for many many years........

[@clarkf3666]

Would you consider “Damage” from Consider Phlebas a game within the culture with actual stakes?

[@hughcaldwell1034]

I don't recall Damage being specific to or even originally from the Culture, though I could be wrong.

[@louisazraels7072]

I would say it only has the losing side of stakes, there is nothing to win, its basically gratuitous risk taking for the adrenaline rush. Now it would be different if the players were forced to play, then it could be argued that you are playing to "win" back your life, but as a truly voluntary activity which offers no social or material gain it's not really comparable to the stakes of a game of Azzad

[@twilightprincelink]

To become a post scarcity society we need to base currency/ debt on food. That way if you wanted to get food you would have to be or work for a primary food producers and the food would be used to pay for other things!

[@TheAstroWitchLux]

One of my favourite books!!!

[@JDSleeper]

There's a scene in this book that personifies the trope "Beware the Nice Ones". After Gurgeh it exposed to just how depraved Azad is he absolutely destroys his next opponent without mercy. The scene is told from the opponent's POV. The Culture is a whole civilization of Nice Ones, and when they go to war...well...

[@hughcaldwell1034]

"Don't fuck with the Culture."

[@fohat50]

did you tknow amazon have owned the film/TV rights to Iain M Banks works since pretty soon after we lost him? anyhow, thanks for doing these books which are still my favourites. i wish bezos would get on with them - or let someone do it for them

[@JJ-fr2ki]

3:22 Strange phrasing: spoiler spoil plots not people whom they allegedly can disappoint. Also, reminds me of a kind of *Glass Bead Gane*. fan of your videos. thanks.

[@marxtheenigma873]

When can you tell us about the children of time spider society?

[@connarcomstock161]

My life is a very complicated drinking game.

[@MrJudeWanamaker]

One of my favorites so far

[@davidnewbaum6346]

That's my favorite Culture book.

[@raverdeath100]

i would rate "The Player of Games" up with another culture novel "Use of Weapons" but above them i would place Banks' non culture SF novel "Against a Dark Background" - absolutely stunning.

[@davidwuhrer6704]

Personally I count Against A Dark Background as part of the Culture cycle. While the Culture does not feature in it, there is nothing that contradicts it being in the same setting, and the style and humour is very similar.

[@hughcaldwell1034]

@@davidwuhrer6704 If I'm recalling AADB correctly, nothing directly contradicts it being in that same universe, but the tech/physics doesn't feel quite consistent with it either. Just a slightly different flavour. I really enjoyed The Algebraist, which felt almost proto-Culture to me, but is almost certainly a different universe. Still a fantastic read. Also like to drop here that Use of Weapons is great, but I think Surface Detail and Look to Windward beat it. Player of Games is number one, of course.

[@achasonc]

Yeeeee, Upload notification!!!💙🤗

[@paladinbob1236]

ah this was a excellent book...read this some time ago....this truly is worth a read ..enjoyed this immensely :) although the empire is itself not a game...but the game is a representation of the empire and what it wants/needs as opposed to the culture's desires :)

[@davidwuhrer6704]

The game itself is flexible enough to represent different things, even the Culture. It's the meta that represents the oligarchy.

[@hughcaldwell1034]

I'd almost argue that the empire is also a game. As my friend pointed out, one of the messages (apart from the illusion of fairness and the myth of meritocracy) is that the desire to climb to the top of a social/economic hierarchy is no more worthy than the desire to be the best at any particular game. For the super wealthy, capitalism is just a game they're winning by having the highest score, with more money than could possibly mean anything, and The Player of Games makes it clear that that is just a more destructive manifestation of the same desire to be the world chess champion.

[@davidwuhrer6704]

@@hughcaldwell1034 If a game is defined as playing without consequences, then capitalism is a game to plutocrats, but anything but a game to everyone else. Similarly, politics can be treated as a game, but as politics is by definition the governance of public affairs through binding agreements, it can never be without consequences. (Although certain types of politician believe themselves to be isolated from those.)

[@hughcaldwell1034]

@@davidwuhrer6704 Fair analysis.

[@kellybjorndalen3341]

could you do Oryx and Craik, it's not set in space but I think it's very much a reflection of our own world sci fi