The Evolution of Web Apps 1992-2024

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Күн бұрын

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@mikeryan2388 6 ай бұрын

I've never described anything as wholesome before, but I can't think of a better word for your videos lately. They're wholesome. Not flashy, loud, begging for clicks, just normal conversation that happens to be educational. Kind of reminds of Mr. Rodger's Neighborhood, but this is Mr. Beattie's Network

@Ihatebrexit 5 ай бұрын

I wish I could star this comment. Wholesome is an excellent way to describe them. Dylan’s videos are the antidote to the brash, loud, obnoxious and uninformed opinions that dominate the space (I’m thinking about Theo et al). We need them!

@tozpeak 5 ай бұрын

Evolution of youtube back to just sharing cool stuff for fun. 😊

@BizAutomation4U 2 ай бұрын

I just subscribed simply because of how he removes all the fluff out of the topic. That is gold in an age where everyone is trying to show how clever they are and how much they know, all with a lot of emotion, and more energy that would put a politician to shame.

@daryl9915 Ай бұрын

This vid feels like Dylan likes giving talks on subjects he cares about, even if there's no developer convention where the talk might fit. Or it could be practice for a presentation at some future convention, or similar. Either way, solid material and engaging delivery as usual

@catoberge 2 ай бұрын

This. Was. Great. No fuzz, no bull. Just good, clean information. A favorite video of 2024. Subscribed.

@marloelefant7500 2 ай бұрын

The Web really demonstrated the power of open standards and cross-company collaboration. Instead of every big tech company baking its own fragile solution, such as Flash, Java Applets etc., many stakeholders work together on a common solution that allows to solve their problems just well enough. These solutions are guaranteed to be maintained well and survive long.

@HNedel 2 ай бұрын

It still took someone powerful enough to put their foot down (due to Jobs’ own ulterior motives) and drag the industry kicking into the 21st century of open standards

@gymothybumpkins 2 ай бұрын

Love this type of content. Knowing the history of our trade is underrated.

@nurmr 24 күн бұрын

The ugly precursor to WebSockets was the "Comet" model and it effectively had the client request data from the server, and the server would leave it hanging until it had something to return. There were about 5 different ways to implement it, and all of them had their downsides.

@RogerValor 6 ай бұрын

and now, with HTMX, moving back to server side rendering and embracing the html markup as the actual state, and nearing unblocking wasm bottlenecks like dom access and standalone support, we are approaching something that will remix the boundaries yet again.

@DylanBeattie 6 ай бұрын

So I genuinely considered whether HTMX should be in the video, but in the end the patterns I chose were the ones that I consider to be the paradigm shifts in web architecture enabled by new APIs and browser capabilities: they all allowed us to do things which were previously impossible, or at least extremely difficult. You could get something a bit like XMLHttpRequest by using hidden IFRAMES, or using JavaScript to load images from particular URLs with payload data in the query string, but it wasn't easy and it was incredibly fragile. You could emulate socket connections using long-lived AJAX requests - send the request, wait thirty seconds, if you don't get anything back, the request times out so you send another one - but again, it was nothing like as easy or well-supported as the WebSockets API. I think HTMX is an extremely well-designed framework, but fundamentally I think it's just very good syntactic abstractions on top of client-side JavaScript, DOM manipulation and HTTP requests. We *could* have had HTMX in 2010 - all the building blocks were already there, we just hadn't really figured out the best way to put them together yet. It's an excellent framework but it solves the equivalent set of problems as jQuery/prototype/scriptaculous. (This is the part where somebody replies with "well actually... " and calls out some particular feature of HTMX which is only possible using WebSockets/WASM... but you get the idea. 😉)

@echobucket 5 ай бұрын

@@DylanBeattie The other thing that should probably be on here is the sort of Next.JS hybrid approach of serverside + client side rendering using the same programming language....

@tahamohammedi5898 5 ай бұрын

This HTMX hype bullshit is getting out of hand, HTMX is merely a framework that does client side fetching nothing else, it's almost like fucking JQuery, i didn't change shit

@NikoJokipalo 5 ай бұрын

He did mention GWT which did exactly this, way before (it's now dead)

@Ihatebrexit 5 ай бұрын

@@tahamohammedi5898what you say has some truth. Indeed, many of us built our own HTMX like functions on top of JQuery. However, the hype behind HTMX is easy to understand when viewed through the lens of a younger developer who has only ever known SPA. To them, HTMX is a miraculous breath of fresh air. Many developers, especially the younger ones, are locked into the SPA mindset, not knowing there’s another way. 99% of websites and applications do not need to be, and indeed, should not be an SPA. I am glad HTMX is here for it changes this mindset of “SPA is the default”.

@jimratliff 5 ай бұрын

I, too, started on the web in the 90s (a bit later than you, 1995). This is an awesome, memory provoking, but also just super well constructed, historical survey. Thanks!

@mathiaz943 2 ай бұрын

This is fantastic. Especially for the younger among us, who have not lived through the evolution of the web…

@slowgoins 5 ай бұрын

Absolutely *love* the history presentations. As someone whose primary education was in the physical sciences, seeing how a field grew and evolved vastly helps my own understanding of why certain technologies, patterns, frameworks, and so on were invented. They needed to solve (what were then) new problems. This is a great "brown bag" (lunch) style of talk with just enough detail to really learn something and research after where interest directs. Looking forward to the next one!

@arlandi 5 ай бұрын

I still remember my first job as a 'web master' a century ago, using static html and bunch of animated gifs to show information in pages. coded with ms frontpage and later macromedia Dreamweaver.

@snorman1911 5 ай бұрын

"Webmaster" 😂 my first title. The 90s were a wild time for web dev.

@rumble1925 2 ай бұрын

Brb updating my title on Linkedin

@eliotclarke1129 2 ай бұрын

MS front page, wow that’s a blast from the past

@bobthemagicmoose 2 ай бұрын

Totally forgot about the “webmaster” title! I wasn’t a dev at the time but I feel like you’d see notes referencing the webmaster throughout the site “error: please contact the webmaster”

@hidoryy Ай бұрын

the default page on nginx for rocky linux says something along the lines of "if you see this page and are not an admin then contact the webmaster" and I was really confused what a webmaster was LOL

@Esparzamx 6 ай бұрын

Can't remember the first time I saw one of your conferences and ended up looking you up because of it, I think it was the one about SMTP, ever since, it's been worth it!! Thank you for your time and efforts, your content is amazing and valuable.

@threee1298 Ай бұрын

What a great summary, makes it all seem so simple

@amolizm 2 ай бұрын

I recently started building an with django, with rendering on the server side, no front-end at all. This is a really great intro to all the available technology and its capabilities

@Rose-ec6he 5 ай бұрын

It's worth noting that wasm isn't native code in the strict sense, it's run inside a virtual machine in a similar way to java - It's bytecode that a browser converts to native instructions on the fly. It's still much faster than JavaScript because it is parsed and run through optimisations beforehand and does not use a garbage collector. Those are all great things but it is not real assembly or machine code because it is CPU agnostic and requires extra steps before it can be run on all computers which has a performance penalty in exchange for portability, unopinionated standardisation and ease of implementation. It's an important distinction which I wish the dev team made

@nickwallette6201 Ай бұрын

I had not heard of this, and when it came up in the video, I thought, “so we brought back applets?” He then said, with a smirk, essentially that, and “but we’ve learned some things” Apparently we haven’t learned not to launch random chunks of code from third party sites. I assume the only difference is that now “it’s sandboxed.” In tech, everything old is new again.

@nurmr 24 күн бұрын

@@nickwallette6201 Yep, that final box with WebAssembly could move up to the same line as Applets and plugins and it would still make sense.

@kwyrky 6 ай бұрын

I like the videos talking about web related stuff. I want to get a better understanding the web technologies better and going through the history helps in getting an overview. Thanks for uploading!

@caty863 6 ай бұрын

This is a good rundown of what transpired with the web for the last few decades. I dabbled in this industry in early 2010 when PHP was all the rage. I built a few CRUD websites with the WAMP stack and it was fun for a while. Now, I have skipped this *web sockets* wave and I am trying to jump back on to the *WASM* wagon. Wish me luck!

@michaelrall8142 2 ай бұрын

very, very nice presentation. I feel a bit old now, but also relaxed, because there hasn't changed soo much the last 30 years 🙂

@CRMWTY Ай бұрын

This was awesome. Great video 😊 Cheers!

@michaljanwarecki763 6 ай бұрын

Great video! And very relatable. 2 years ago I got my first web dev job with just my personal blog on my CV. I made it as a React SPA with Django backend. Now I'm redoing the same blog to now be a server side generated web app. I guess in 3 years time I'll rewrite it again, either a Wasm SPA or static HTML.

@JarheadCrayonEater 2 ай бұрын

I also wrote my first web page in 1992, but didn't really get into it until 1995. "Internet dinosaur" is very accurate! Edit: This is a brilliant channel! Thanks for bringing back those great memories in visual format!

@liammcmullen4497 5 ай бұрын

An insightful narrative of the tumultuous evolution in web technology since the 1990s. ;)

@sabuein 2 ай бұрын

My favorite these days is what they call "Progressive web app". Again, thank you for sharing, I loved it.

@ultravioletiris6241 5 ай бұрын

I’m a cyber security and computer science double major, and this was an excellent excellent video. I learned a lot and also reinforced some things I wasn’t 100% sure about.

@calanm7880 2 ай бұрын

This is magnificent. I had multiple “penny drop” moments - understanding the context of the “why?” really helps me understand.

@key7644 2 ай бұрын

I remember disabling JavaScript on my browser back in the days for security reasons, now the only place I can not find JavaScript is on my laundry basket!

@kaiserruhsam 5 ай бұрын

oh no they made fetch() happen

@joeynelson1609 2 ай бұрын

Well done. Thank you for a very cohesive and overarching explanation of web delivery technologies up to now. It definitely rounded out my understanding and filled a few holes.

@teay20000 Ай бұрын

Wow Excellent, clear and easy to understand. The illustrations help to visualize how it actually works.

@CompuB1t Ай бұрын

Thank you, thank you. Now I understand much better the web development nature.

@MobiusCoin 2 ай бұрын

I've been doing this whole web dev thing for a long time and even with that I learned so much. The explanation of WASM was particularly useful for me. You got a new subscriber!

@slavsquatch7 2 ай бұрын

Excellent overview. Wish I had this video when I was teaching at a web dev bootcamp.

@yusef3132 5 ай бұрын

You really desrve more likes. Really enjoyed video. Thank you...

@Beastintheomlet 5 ай бұрын

I can’t imagine how much of a game changer AJAX calls were for the web. I’m so glad I didn’t have to go through the IE days of web dev tho, I’ve heard so many horror stories.

@TesterAnimal1 28 күн бұрын

JSONP? 😂😂😂

@LifeOfCraig 5 ай бұрын

This was a great video, very entertaining and very informative!

@reidatherton7743 25 күн бұрын

That brings me back to Yahoo! Games. Java Applets that were slow to initially download, but then were very responsive and fully multiplayer. Quite attractive too, unlike many other applets. Plugins could be a pain but sometimes the result was fantastic. ...then there's Celebrity Punchout. But that was Shockwave

@darknezx9542 2 ай бұрын

To be honest Dylan can make any dry topic sound like the most interesting thing ever. Always a fascinating talk.

@alexanderleonidas3260 2 ай бұрын

Very helpful overview! Thanks!

@danielbaulig 6 ай бұрын

WebSockets were really just an technological evolution from long polling and Comet. Similar to how fetch was a better XMLHttpRequest. Should have mentioned those, too imo.

@yaroslavpanych2067 5 ай бұрын

Fetch is not better, it is just other, and most likely nih-crap.

@nickwallette6201 Ай бұрын

Comet. Ha. Well that explains why “AJAX” then. The IT world loves its puns.

@3Im0 2 ай бұрын

Thank you for your nice presentation. Perfectly done! 👍🏻👍🏻

@michaelareay1037 4 күн бұрын

Excellent.

@speckdratz 5 ай бұрын

Absolutely spectacular overview!

@yash1152 5 ай бұрын

12:00 thanks a lot for this video. many a times, the story of past, if shared in proper way, can do wonders to increase ur understanding of things.

@mehmath 2 ай бұрын

Brilliant work you`ve made

@idvirtualidvirtual8394 5 ай бұрын

Gran charla! Y explicado de una manera muy didáctica! Grandes recuerdos de flash y Dreamweaver!

@anamikatarjani 2 ай бұрын

Whatta great way of helping us understand!

@comosaycomosah 5 ай бұрын

oh sweet always seen videos of you talking in conferences didnt realize you had a channel

@DaddyChronic 2 ай бұрын

Before Ajax I had send the Data for the JavaScript App by generating Inline-Scripts containing the Serverdata..

@thiagoassisfernandes 5 ай бұрын

Can't wait to the primeagen take on this.

@giorgiobarchiesi5003 2 ай бұрын

Nice video, interesting and informative! Regarding languages that compile to JavaScript, I like the Flutter/Dart technology, because from the same code you can obtain mobile apps and desktop apps as well. And for the web version, you don’t have to worry about the fact that JavaScript is an extremely unsafe language: you write Dart code, which is type-safe and null-safe; then the transpiler will generate the appropriate and correct JavaScript code for you. How do you rate this approach vs. Webassembly?

@paulsound1110 6 ай бұрын

Your are inspiring!! I had a big aha Moment. It gives me as a young Programmer i much better understanding of the web in gernal. Thanks.

@BobFrTube 2 ай бұрын

In the 90s I found I could create an XML object dynamically and it acted very much like Ajax. Ajax just formalized a practice that was already posssible.

@scottlillynz 6 ай бұрын

Great video, Dylan. Yet somehow my major takeaway was just how I old must be ;)

@trapkat8213 2 ай бұрын

Excellent presentation.

@spaceageboys3485 2 ай бұрын

Great video might revive applets just to make people mad

@لوسيفرجبريل 2 ай бұрын

That was awesome. Thx

@sm5574 2 ай бұрын

We've also essentially moved from dumb terminals in the '70s to smart terminals now, with everything essentially running as a web app or something cloud-based. The idea of actually running software on that massively powerful machine in front of you has become antiquated.

@sabuein 2 ай бұрын

Thank you.

@thohangst 2 ай бұрын

RIP Flash. The internet was fun once. And charmingly janky.

@biscotty6669 2 ай бұрын

Nothing about Perl/CGI? That's what I used for my first "web app". I like your vids.

@edwardallenthree 29 күн бұрын

Brilliant.

@samvarcoe 21 күн бұрын

Superb 👌

@ChrisAthanas 5 ай бұрын

Pop filter needed for that particular microphone placement Very loud on headphones

@JamieBainbridge Ай бұрын

If it's of interest to you, a video explaining how wasm works could be interesting. I always just assumed it was a cute name for "obfuscated JavaScript".

@stevecarter8810 17 күн бұрын

I'm just about to do my final practical exam on a "DevOps apprenticeship" which will be interesting since I've optimized the app to a single static page that gets refreshed nightly. Not sure how i will get marks for logging and monitoring.

@DavidTorralbaGoitia 2 ай бұрын

Amazing content! I would have loved to see PWA in that timeline though 🙃

@tarilonte 6 ай бұрын

Great video! I still use classic asp

@Holobrine 5 ай бұрын

My preferred architecture today is htmx and web components (compiled out of Svelte). Web components make the browser know how to render things, but the server still sends html so the browser doesn’t have to interpret JSON. Some heuristics: If the server will make a complex JSON object, it’s not much worse on the server to format it as html instead. Meanwhile on the client, the data is in html already, so it doesn’t have to work as hard to know how to display it. And then, web components enable this to not live strictly in vanilla html.

@anshul_eie 6 ай бұрын

Post SPA world, there's this new kid called Svelte which does a hybrid of server side rendering and browser side JS/DOM rendering. I hope you'll talk about that in one of your videos in future,

@andynn6691 5 ай бұрын

Kinda like JSF and the like, only a million times better.

@yaroslavpanych2067 5 ай бұрын

What exactly new in that? Server side renders baseplate, js employs ajax to fetch fresh data and show it to user. We have been doing it for at least 20 years now.

@anshul_eie 5 ай бұрын

@@yaroslavpanych2067 One could extend the same argument for SPA too. Nothing new in that. We had ajax before SPAs became popular. Svelte gives the best of both worlds - fast first time load (server side rendering) and client side rendering.

@hadibq 2 ай бұрын

Missing your talks, Dylan 👍

@kahnfatman 3 ай бұрын

I'm looking forward to a browser implementation of serverless (P2P).

@JoaoCarlos-df1zw 6 ай бұрын

Wow, awesome seeing all those stages in a graph. And good to see wasm, the big brother of java applets

@user-yc6km3iw7c 2 ай бұрын

Great content, thank you!

@Zainjerr 2 ай бұрын

love these bites of history

@Ihatebrexit 5 ай бұрын

Your videos are always a pleasure. I look forward to them 👍

@hassejansson 2 ай бұрын

well done

@guitarplayer4life17 2 ай бұрын

This was great

@udiazulay1571 Ай бұрын

great video, must say that it's very disappointing that HTML, which become so code bloated now days, still does not have a native JSON binding in 2024, simple modern interactions like sending a form with json encoding or bind json results back to controls ends up with complicated scripts, adding that simple thing could bring the web back to it's origin where simple HTML form can be all that is needed to run modern interactive application without a complicated js framework...

@svaira 5 ай бұрын

I agree with most of what you say, except maybe with the idea that WebAssembly is also a good way to solve problems, and I also have issues with Single Page Apps for similar reasons. The main question for me is how they compare to custom protocols. In my view, if you want to have a native app, you should have a native app, not a website. The real issue here is that many internet access points pointlessly limit the ports that can be used, which does nothing to security (as any malware can run over port 8080, and port scanning could be blocked in different ways), but makes it more difficult to create new protocols for new application like it was more standard before. Idk if this completely coincides, but I do find it strange that so many applications tried to be websites, when really I do not see the benefit, at around the time ports started to be blocked off more, it would be interesting to see a historical rundown of that (like when chats moved from protocols like XMPP to website clients).

@axel_luke 2 ай бұрын

What about long polling before websockets?

@kwanele_dev 2 ай бұрын

I fucking love the way you tell the story. Right about 10:22, I found myself laughing because you just emplained notifications like I'm five, but I've been building web applications for the past 5 years lol 😂😂

@gabrielwolfcolor 6 ай бұрын

And I thought I had been a web dev 😅 Thanks for filling some gaps! 😊

@astropgn 5 ай бұрын

Damn, I remember being a kid and seeing Ajax being born. I tried to learn it, but it was too much for my brain. I didn't even speak english all that well so it made it harder to learn, but people were hyped as f

@HaraldEngels 2 ай бұрын

Low-JS libraries like HTMX or Unpoly are the next evolutionary step.

@D.S69 Ай бұрын

thanks

@milkmanconspiracy4346 2 ай бұрын

EventSource was a funny stepping stone to WS.

@yaroslavpanych2067 5 ай бұрын

12:42 I know at least a dozen of sites that still employ flash, and not going to stop anytime soon. It is just too expensive to rewrite it and DEBUG to the level it was on flash!

@edgeeffect 6 ай бұрын

Steve Jobs killing the plugin did wonders for my income for a little while... various mates who had been doing Flash for years noticing their works-of-art didn't work on the coolest-device-to-own... they really quickly needed to talk to a computer programmer... and that was me.

@yaroslavpanych2067 5 ай бұрын

Coolest device to own is, and always was brain. If you don't have one, or have one in abandned state, no other devices will fix that.

@zhexymusic 4 ай бұрын

I expected to see General Kenobi as a response... 10:28 😢

@baggern 6 ай бұрын

one axis missing is canvas / webgl / webgpu and how web apps now don't even need to be use html and the dom to display content

@ecavero1 5 ай бұрын

Where do browser extensions come in? My favorite one is Vimium. This extension adds JavaScript so that I can use Vim-like motions to navigate without using the mouse.