The Expanse Season 4 Episode 5 'Oppressor' REACTION!!

[@Mason-gz3tl]

Nikki: "You can't F**king end an episode like that" The Expanse: 'We can, We do and We will"

[@ferdifritzsch7739]

Dan and Ty: "Come on ... didn`t get it yet?" ;)

[@Yora21]

We have done it before, we will do it again.

[@sebastianmener8473]

No Spoiler There's a misunderstanding: The Bugs didn't rip the ship apart. The landing pad shrapnels from the explosion ripped the ship apart.

[@kentslocum]

I both love and hate how this show refuses to spoon-feed its audience. Everything in the show has a reason and an explanation, but very little of that is laid out clearly and explained. The show trusts its audience to connect the dots and make inferences.

[@PezzaTheFlezza]

Burn Gorman is such an excellent actor. And Murtry is so compelling as an antagonist, because he’s got so many motivations we agree with; protecting his crew, “justice” (as he sees it). He’s just so twisted, so much more so than Holden ever became during season 2. Anyways, great reaction as always, your reactions are what got me to finally watch The Expanse and I’m so glad they did!

[@paulmccloud9395]

The Fookin Legend of Gin Alley.

[@PezzaTheFlezza]

Paul McCloud let us not forget his much more likeable (and tragic) role in Torchwood

[@dwnkaomwn3953]

@@PezzaTheFlezza And Pacific Rim and The Dark Knight Rises.

[@IdleCommentator]

Only Murtry is lying about the reasons for his actions, so not matter how plausible they are on the surface, they don't justify what he does.

[@sci-fihorizons2867]

And on TURN Washington's Spies

[@yetibeardson1168]

Amos isn't exactly a 'good guy'. He is just on the 'good side'. So we are ok with him sometimes doing things that are way to aggressive and over the line, such as his choking of Miller. If nobody had stepped in, he might have killed Miller right then. Murtry is just on the side that's against our guys, so it's hard to get to understand his position. His tactics and the way he does things are aggressive and needlessly violent, of course. But he still has several good points, including that a bunch of his people were killed before they even stepped foot on the planet. And that's why this show is awesome, because it's rarely just cut and dry "these are the good guys and they have to get the bad guys". Also, Burn Gorman certainly has 'that face.'

[@ThanatoselNyx]

I always hesitate to make comments on a characters face being "evil" as that is also the actors face and they may be perfectly nice people. Though in fairness to Burn, he has made a career out of his face (and excellent acting).

[@yetibeardson1168]

@@ThanatoselNyx To be fair, I never said anything about his face being evil. I just said he has "that face". Meaning a face that inspires confrontation. Burn Gorman has also said in interviews that he knows he has that face, so, yeah.

[@joeschmo5782]

Exactly. Amos has said similar things and carries a similar mindset. But because he's a character we've grown with and accustomed to, he gets a pass. I like Amos. And I actually like Murtry. They're both straightforward about their principles and methods. I just don't like when people put blinders on when it comes to characters and fall into a bit of hypocrisy. I actually think the comment he made about his face was actually a fourth wall break directed at such people. To assume someone is a complete bad or good guy without layers or some tangible motivation is almost insulting to the show and the writing since I don't think they're interested in that at all as storytellers.

[@lecharcutier3637]

Murtry is in the right.

[@remliqa]

@@lecharcutier3637 He's only half right.

[@acereporter73]

The fact that this show prompts heated debate among the audience about the characters' actions is why I love this show.

[@frog212whyd4]

That belter woman set the bomb off early and saved lives. If the other belters had their way all of the earthers would be dead.

[@nercksrule]

She could have saved even more lives by not setting the bomb in the fucking first place.

[@faponemjas8069]

@@nercksrule lol I like how most people try to justify the actions of the belters ....they are just as bad as the earthians and Martians but with less power.

[@sammy-er7on]

faponem Jas earthian? 😂

[@faponemjas8069]

Sam Hashi belters, earthians or earthers and martians . It’s how each people are categorized in the show Who’s the stupid one now? 🤡

[@17thknight]

Totally unrelated to your excellent reaction, but Nikki's lipstick is fire.

[@CybrSlydr]

I didn't get the impression that he wants to gas them to kill them, but like knockout gas so they're sedated and can be removed without incident.

[@IdleCommentator]

That's the story he's telling - but, as Amos said, this guy enjoys murdering people, so can you really trust him on that ?

[@davebcf1231]

@@Glisern You left out the part where he said anyone found with a gun will be held and "questioned" as well. Since when do the belters not have a right to arm themselves/protect themselves on an alien planet within their own colony? From their perspective, this guy has shown up and decided he's the law in their settlement when they never wanted him or his people there in the first place. I don't think you'd be too welcoming if some heavily armed group showed up in your town and essentially proclaimed themselves the law of your city. Now multiply that feeling many times over because you're also on an alien planet and have been oppressed for the last several generations.

[@KeithDCanada]

@@davebcf1231 You are right, Murtry, nor the company he represents, are the law on Ilus.... but neither are the belters. The ONLY claim the belters have is "We Were Here First". But in the absence of law, it usually boils down to not who was there first, but instead who can hold and defend that ground. It's happened on our own world in history... when land is being fought over, typically the stronger force prevails. Was that 'right' or 'lawful'? The winner gets to determine that in the history books...

[@davebcf1231]

@@KeithDCanada True, the victors write the history books, but as we know that usually comes with the covering up or downplaying of atrocities they committed. The belters aren't claiming to be the law there over anything except their own colony that has been invaded by a company looking to evict them. The belters didn't land and come into a colony established by Murtry's security people and start playing judge, jury and executioner. Murtry and his people are not only free to leave but the belters want them to leave. Murtry and his people are the aggressors, not the belters.

[@nathanj3528]

@@davebcf1231 What are you talking abt? The inners didn't come to conquer the planet, it was a research team and Murty and his crew are security for that research team. There was absolutely no reason to destroy that shuttle.

[@TrentRidley]

Murtry is there to represent corporate interests. He's a mercenary for hire and is there to remove the Belters by whatever means necessary. He's just like these private security companies that operate in the real world. They're often filled with ex-military personnel and used by massive multinational corporations to "secure their interests/assets" by oppressing indigenous populations (think the plundering of resources in the Amazon, regions of Africa, etc). They often operate within the law, but when governments are bought off and those laws are written by those same corporations, it means their actions are rarely good, or right, or just.... they're simply lawful, which isn't the same thing. If you view Murtry through that lens, not even his presence on that planet is justified and, therefore, his actions can't be fully justified either.

[@symphobic]

To be fair, the Belters killed a lot of his men even before they landed, and they sure don't even try to cooperate with him. Instead of at least agreeing that there are some terrorists among them, and letting Murtry bring those responsible to justice, they seem to be protecting them, giving him more justification to just murder everyone.

[@TheSirUno]

@@symphobic To be fair, the belters already had their home destroyed by inners, been denied safe harbor, found a new home, mined it, and found a new life in a new system...ALL before RCE or the UN even knew that Ilus existed. Sure, the belters outright killed a lot of folks, but at no point did the UN (or RCE) have any legal justification whatsoever to arbitrarily move in with the intent of kicking out the "squatter" belters. Just my opinion though.

[@brilobox2]

TheSirUno they still murdered completely innocent scientists and technicians who posed no threat to them. They can’t claim the terrorists don’t represent them while also sheltering and protecting those same terrorists.

[@kentslocum]

Upon further rewatches, it's clear that Murtry was actually pretty friendly at the start of Season 4, shown in the way he was talking with the other crew members. His demeaner took a 180-degree turn after the crash-landing. In that way, he's just like Amos. He believes he is justified in tracking down and punishing those who killed members of his crew.

[@tonygmichael6434]

I think Murtrys annoying voice,face and demeanor (lol he even said it himself) is giving Nikki a bit of tunnel vision. I do love the disagreements between you both and the debate though which is why I'm kinda glad you have differing opinions. Makes things way more complex,and watching you discuss this makes it waaay more interesting.

[@dennistomsen5822]

When a Lawful Neutral person discuss course of action with a Neutral Good one 😁

[@lecharcutier3637]

Nikki is just dumb

[@reignmans]

@@lecharcutier3637 i dont think she is dumb , she is just simple. meaning she mostly follows instinct and emotion instead of thinking deeper. which is ok. makes for good reactions:)

[@ThePartisan13]

@@reignmans I mean simple is another way of saying dumb, lol

[@thontor]

24:24 Don't worry. I actually cried in this episode. During the surgery and also during Naomi's speech here. Hell, I shed a tear watching it in your reaction just now. You held yourselves together better than i did.

[@morkmon]

Naomi speech here is so good, Dominique Tipper has grown so much as an actor

[@NewAeonWarlord]

The situation is made even worse by the fact (as far as I understood it), that not "The Belters" blew up that landing pad but only a small group of them with the rest still unaware of that fact. Lucia is the only one who participated in that that is still alive I think. As far as the rest of the Belters are concerned, Murtry came and just started taking overly drastic measures while he thinks he's 100% in the rights and just being strict about it.

[@dmann05]

The bugs did not rip through the ship and kill people. The stuff flying through the ship were pieces of the landing that had just exploded. The bomb was built to destroy the landing completely, and it was supposed to happen while the ship was either still docked in space or on it's way down. The belters screwed up the timing, and just like they showed us, they decided to capitalize on it and kill as many Earthers as possible. I really like the scene where Naomi explains how she can relate to what the Belter lady is feeling, and I loved the line that Murtry says to Holden about gassing the camp about not asking for his opinion because he doesn't give a fuck. I totally pictured Murtry differently in my head when reading but the show version is perfect. He was memorably evil on Game of Thrones too (he betrayed and killed Jeor Mormont at Craster's Keep and drank wine out of his skull).

[@darrenrichardson6146]

He does play "Good" pretty well too on Torchwood.

[@SueK2001]

Crisjen didn’t kill civilians and children on that ship. The aide said the ship’s engine signature matched The Sojourner which was the ship that Marco’s crew boarded, pirated the supplies and also spaced the colonists. To say anymore might be spoilers...

[@AngeloBarovierSD]

At _this_ point, no one actually knows who, if anyone, was aboard that ship. Too many variables to say for sure. Even if it was the Sojourner (and not another ship with a spoofed drive sig.), no accurate count of passengers vs bodies sent to the ring is available.

[@soci6236]

My god i love the dynamic between the two of you. Even though having different opinions, you guys/girl are still able to have a nice conversation and share those opinions in a calm manner. This channel is so great and its all because of you two!

[@rasmuskjrbyepetersen8862]

The really interesting thing about Drummer and Inaros is that politically they're more or less on the same side (although she is pragmatic about it and he is an absolute fanatic). Even though she denied it, I think his argument did have an impact. But she is a permanent, card-holding member of the anti-Inaros faction because of her loyalty to Naomi. She will never forgive him for what he did to her. It's interesting how people pick sides in the Murtry/Lucia-feud. In my eyes none of them are right. Coop and his crew were clearly murderers and needed to be brought to justice, but Murtrys way of doing it, without trial, is obviously an atempt to crank up the tension. He wanted the ordinary belters to strike back so that he would have an excuse to get rid of all of them. If instead he had tried to make a case, present the evidence, I think the belters would have convicted Coop themselves. But peaceful coexistence was never Murtrys goal. He wants every single belter gone, one way or the other. It is easy to sympathize with Lucia, but even though she's not a murderer, she is a terrorist, using violence to keep the earthers out. She is just as opposed to peaceful coexistence. She's only better than Murtry in that she wants the earthers to leave alive, not dead. The really ridiculous thing is, that they have an entire planet. Both sides could make their own country on different hemispheres and never see each other again. But noooo. It's mine, all mine.

[@bejanked]

A comment on the Naomi talk at the start of the episode: I wonder if part of it isn't just that she wants to be on the planet with Holden and prove that she can do it... but that she's the only Belter on the Roci crew and she wants to be there to advocate for the Belters on Ilus. Giving up and going back into orbit to me is a sign that she trusts Holden to stand up for them when it comes down to it. (Not that he's ever been "against Belters," but they've had their disagreements on how to handle things like this in the past.)

[@hcwm2]

The RCE and by extension Murtry as the security chief see themselves as the only ligitimate party here with a government permit to do research and then exploit the riches, mainly mine the lithium. To them the belters are just hobos that appeared at a place they have no business being at. And of course them mining the lithium is viewed as stealing from the company and of course the RCE cannot have that. So here comes Murtry in, the private corporate mercenary tasked with handling the problem. But what if that mercenary turns out to be a high level functioning psychopath?

[@Fangtorn]

I find Murtry an interesting villain because of the way he always finds a seemingly reasonable way to justify his incessant recourse to violence. He frames himself as receptive to a peaceful solution, but defines that solution as the belters doing what he wants and leaving the planet, which is like invading a country and then claiming you're a man of peace because you want the inhabitants to surrender. To further that analogy, when the inhabitants fight back, you use that to justify further violence against them. Murtry is exploiting an unequal power dynamic to create a lose-lose situation for the belters. Fight back and he crushes them, don't fight back and he ignores them, and then probably has them forcibly removed.

[@sabkobds]

He is not "government"... As Naomi said to him in last episode: "What gives you right to be judge, jury and executioner?".

[@brilobox2]

Sabko Bds a charter from the UN, agreed by Mars and the ruling OPA factions that states his employer shall have authority on Ilus. They are on a frontier planet, he’s not playing a civil servant, he’s doing his job and keeping his subordinates safe from terrorists who killed his people and hide in plain sight while plotting to kill more of his team and taunting him about it. The fact that he enjoys killing and looks forward to people making things difficult to give him the excuse is what makes him a good antagonist.

[@sabkobds]

​@@brilobox2 not sure that I got this about authority. And Governor is dead. Captain of Edward Israel is maybe next in command line, or someone else from Governor's administration. Not him. He is head of security. This is like if state president dies, and first man from police takes his post. This is where this Naomi's quote sits perfect. Anyway, more killing is not protective measure. He could have taken them as prisoners, or at least try to.

[@IanHillan]

I loved your discussion of Belter settlers vs RCE Scientists right to be there. Those Belters had been trying to find somewhere to call home for like a year since Ganymede. They were literally going to die if they didn't find somewhere. That's why they risked death running the blockade and going through the ring in episode 1. Carol Chiwewe was right: if they leave, they'll never be allowed back, and they've spent all that time and effort mining lithium to help pay for supplies that they need if they're going to survive. Leaving is a death sentence: if they're gonna die, they'd prefer to do it on their own new home planet. RCE, on the other hand, have an official charter from the UN (and who put the UN in charge of the new systems?). Regardless, they see the Belter settlers as illegal "squatters and murderers" as Murtry put it, who have no real right to the planet. So both sides are right. And both sides are also wrong with how they're dealing with it. Both have resorted to murder and violence to settle their claims. Why? Because that's what humans do, even 2-300 years in the future. It was one of the islands (the one that Fayez previously said was heating up) on the other side of the planet that blew up (it was on the daytime side when it was night time in First Landing). No bueno. It's probably worse than you think... "What's he doing?" "Being him." Amos gets all the best lines.

[@dumpsterdawg]

Might be wrong but I don't think Nikki cares for Murtry too much... Anyways great reaction👍👍

[@thomasmain5986]

Nikki holds a grudge, the same actor put a knife into Craster's skull in GOT.

[@uchrisdaley]

But as Owen Harper on Torchwood, he was awesom

[@thomasmain5986]

@@uchrisdaley Yeah Ok I'll give him that

[@szeltovivarsydroxan9944]

I get where Murtry is coming from, and I was way more on the side of the Earthers than the Belters this season, they have been unprovokedly attacked, but Murtry is also clearly a sociopath. If "his" people weren't his people, he wouldn't give a crap about them. To him, it's all about keeping power and control.

[@rogerlie4176]

I think it's very plausible that the plan was to blow up the capsule all along. The others may well have lied to Lucia like Marco lied to Naomi.

[@dragoninthewest1]

In the book, Lucia is Katoa's mom. Katoa was the kid who was turned into a Hybrid and was killed by Bobbie on Io. They went to ILLUS because Ganymede had painful memories. They changed it in the show which I think was a mistake. It would have added more depth to her and Jakob's anxiety about their daughter's disappearance.

[@hoos3014]

Changing it avoids the "too small world" problem.

[@aaronia8092]

In the book Katoa died before becoming a monster, so it wasn't he who fought with Bobbie.

[@kaipoh265]

I bet Alex and Naomi are like "I never missed Shed as much as I did today...and he wasn't even a real doctor."

[@screamr2d2]

Alex does such a good job stepping up, though. With Shed's anxiety, I'm not sure he could've handled the situation better than Alex.

[@phueal]

"I'm really interested to see how far [Marco] will go."

[@Aaron46L]

About that...

[@snarflcat6187]

"Gassing" means sleeping gas. Notice he said he'd gas them, then disarm, tie up, then move all the Belters. I love how you guys attribute certain motives to the planet/protomolecule. You're the first reactors I've seen to do that.

[@Cloudy_SkieZ1]

Murtrys logic remind me a lot of Alisser Thorne from Thrones. In theory they were in the right.....and took ownership of it

[@DrMustacho]

Allister is a soldier against letting the enemy into the gates Morty is a mercenary on a peaceful mission killing people

[@scottlescard6154]

Nikki: "You can't F**king end an episode like that" It's season 4 and you're still saying that and the end of every episode LOL!!!

[@Brydigan94]

Everything that’s sci-fi just keep building my anticipation for DUNE and the Expanse Season 5. I’m going to explode if they don’t release trailers soon!!

[@Braincleaner]

16:10 is exactly why the expanse is great, every "bad guy" has made you go "yeah, but.." noone has been plain old evil, ...yet..

[@shanepye7078]

Like Ive said in previous videos, this is why I binged the whole aeries. 24 hours in... "Well now I NEED to see what happens next"

[@BRWednesday]

I love that you're both on either side of the issue, makes it very fun to watch. Inner Steven Vs Belter Nikki !!

[@dwnkaomwn3953]

I don't like Murtry either, but he and his crew were attacked first unprovokedly.

[@StormFather45]

They where coming to colonize the newly freed belters that’s not unprovoked.

[@davebcf1231]

It wasn't entirely unprovoked and the majority of the belters didn't know about it. Only a small group of them participated in blowing up the pad and they were the only ones who knew about it.

[@cardellkenith]

@@StormFather45 Belters whose right to the land isn't even recognised by the belter government. It's a nice idea to think whoever gets their first owns it, but no one recognises their claim, and they attacked the very next people who landed.

[@ck_idgaf1680]

Murtry is frustrated, the killed innocent people when the came down, he recorded them plotting on them, they threaten him, and they kidnapped two of his people, understand he believes in an eye for an eye, but every time he listens to Holden or stands down the belters do something. Steven is right, his motivations are valid. Not a good guy, but really no one is.

[@Lightningrod75]

Well, there''s the whole invading force type thing. Royal Charter had a whole planet to land on and they had to set down 50' from the Belters?

[@chaddesrosiers1107]

@@Lightningrod75 That is where the RCS SURVIVORS where taken after their initial landing shuttle was bombed. They where not in any condition to say hey take us 100 km that direction please. The landing pad was built by RCS to land their ship not just a shuttle.... I imagine that is where they intended to setup camp. Until a faction of terrorists living with the belters decided to start blowing things (and people) up.

[@Lightningrod75]

@@chaddesrosiers1107 Fine 100km is still 'The neighborhood' on an uninhabited planet.

[@chaddesrosiers1107]

@@Lightningrod75 No doubt but RCS built the pad... to land the Edward Israel. It would seem it was they that squatted at their intended eventual landing zone so they could take advantage of RCS resources. The pad was built remotely.

[@unbeheld]

If a random undiscovered island was found between the borders of China and Russia, and it was rich on rare minerals, there's no way in hell either country would let some random family business setup shop and claim the island to themselves. It's a rough analogy but that's the gist of it. Unless both Earth and Mars recognizes Belters as a sovereign nation with its own government structure, it'll never respect its claims. So the fact the Belters think they can claim the planet by illegally trespassing the blockade is the hilarious part. They're accusing RCE for being the "thieves" when they were the ones that ran through the fence. Murtry was hired to be a security head, his sole job is to insure the safety of RCE employees, he's not a diplomat or negotiator, so yeah he's a total turd, but it doesn't make his position incorrect when dealing with active terrorist elements that killed 23 of his people and plan to do more.

[@feraldog5590]

The gas would be to knock them out, it wouldn't kill them. He said he would put them all on ships after gassing and send them home

[@martinsharrett1872]

Will he tuck in the kids he gasses and read them a bedtime story too after he gasses them and kicks them off the land he has no legal claim too? What kids?? If a bunch of mercs rolled into my town and hit an ied on the road in. Yeah, my kids wouldn't be allowed outside either. Not trying to single you out. I'm just seeing a very casual attitude towards gassing civilians and forcefully relocating a group of people from land the relocating force has no claim to outside of greater firepower. No idea where everyone else is from. But my culture has a pretty extensive, genuinely dark and impressively disgusting history with this sort of thing...

[@brilobox2]

martin sharrett If you actually had any historical awareness at all, you’d know that everyone, everywhere, at all times, has been subject to ‘might makes right’. It’s a fundamental part of human nature. Nobody has an intrinsic right to anything, that’s not how reality works. Every tribe, kingdom, empire and nation-state survived and survives by being mighty enough that people couldn’t bring them down, the ones that fell lost their might. Look at your own culture internally close enough and you’ll find atrocities abound in the name of ‘more stuff’ at all points, and if you can’t find it, it just wasn’t written down. The only reason it doesn’t happen today is because firepower has become so overwhelming that using it usually destroys what you’re looking to aquire. You aren’t a special snowflake because of your history, all peoples have suffered at the hands of invaders, and been the invaders they claim to despise. You wouldn’t be here if your people hadn’t been conquerors at some point.

[@feraldog5590]

@@martinsharrett1872 not sure how this turned into a debate about real life. I was merely starting fact about a TV show. The gas wasn't to kill them. Apologies if it stuck the wrong cord with you but just stating simple fact.

[@martinsharrett1872]

@@feraldog5590 - it didn't, and I apologize if my reply sounded like I was attacking you or singling you out. I was more surprised by the number of people who basically have said the same thing you have including Steven. Which is what I wanted to reply to. When I watch TV/movies or read fiction/nonfiction I do so through the same lense for all. Sure there is an understanding of the world that is being built in fantasy/fiction. But my personal morality doesnt. That probably makes me the weird one as noted by the majority agreeing with you 😋

[@martinsharrett1872]

@@brilobox2 - completely true except for the bit about it not happening today. The only thing technology has changed about conflict is the speed with which it occurs. Other than that absolutely nothing about violence has changed. Same is true for people as you noted. We a no more advanced or intelligent or evolved than when we lived in caves. P.s. there is no such thing as a perfect little snowflake. Snowflakes in nature are not unique, many are exactly alike in every possible way. Which stands to reason if you think about it, it's just frozen water after all. Oh and an FYI, being the strongest doesn't mean one must also lack any sense of morality or an understanding of right and wrong. It also doesn't mean the strongest must always prey on the weakest. Some of us strong people find brutalizing the weak utterly boring and prefer more enjoyable targets.

[@DrMustacho]

Nikki: did she just decide to let go Amos: looks like it

[@jamesholland5761]

Lol oh and thank you Nikki for the Crisjen quote! LOL!!!

[@chaddesrosiers1107]

When he says gas them he means knock them out... not kill them. Knock them out and transport them off the planet. Not kill them all. He is actually being pretty reasonable. Our governments of our time don't negotiate with terrorists either. If a couple government employees got taken hostage by a camp of terrorists. (When you hide them in your ranks you are =) getting knocked out and dragged away is the best case scenario for the terrorists.

[@outdoorcats]

The thing is, he said he's not just targeting the terrorists, but intends to forcibly remove everyone permanently and take all the lithium they mined, because someone signed a piece of paper somewhere back on Earth saying, "this planet and everything on it belongs to the U.N. because...we said so."

[@chaddesrosiers1107]

@@outdoorcats right they had a legal charter. A charter handed out by the gov with agreement from both the Martian and Belter governments. RCS is a luna based company with major holdings in the belt. They are a Luna/Belter company one of the reasons they where given the contract... to explore the first system they where going to go to. In the books the mission was in the works for a year before the belters run the blockade and go there anyway. The plan at first was to study the planet from orbit for year or so before anyone even put a boot on the surface. But the belters squatted there first and started sending up ore which they planned to transport back through the ring. Which also sort of freaked some folks out... who knows what they might bring back. Its not like they where doing real complete scientific studies of anything they where mining. The belters on New Terra where a menace. :)

[@davebcf1231]

@@chaddesrosiers1107 This isn't the books. The authors of the books have made it very clear that while the show is based on the books it is meant to be a standalone and not a direct copy. Any reference to the books is meaningless.

[@chaddesrosiers1107]

@@davebcf1231 The show is not really any different. The pad is clearly not the belters. RCS are still a science ship with a security detail. I agree with you but they didn't really change the RCS... just perhaps didn't explain in as much detail exactly who the RCS is and the full detail of their science survey mission. Not to spoil this season for anyone but its clear RCS is not looking at Lithium ore are the profit motivator of their billions year old alien archaeology find. I do wish when writing the show they would have talked a bit more about the xeno archaeology aspect of what is going on... but I guess they felt they wanted the belters to feel more like good guys. And not look like reckless looters ;) I guet it.

[@davebcf1231]

@@chaddesrosiers1107 This is why book people are intolerable when watching a show. The show is different from the books and intentionally so. That's according to the authors who created the Expanse, wrote the books, and are supervising producers on the show. They said that it is inspired by the books and loosely follows them but is meant to be a standalone piece of media. I'd say they know better than you. To claim a company would send a team for the small possibility of finding alien tech that they can maybe reverse engineer at some point while leaving literally trillions upon trillions of dollars of Lithium just sitting there untouched is insane. That makes zero sense whatsoever and is why it is emphasized that the planet is made of lithium. "but I guess they felt they wanted the belters to feel more like good guys. And not look like reckless looters ;) I guet it." Nothing in the show is that simple. They don't do anything just to make anyone "look like good guys." Have you even watched any of it? The belters you're referring to are refugees from Ganymede who were denied permission to dock anywhere and basically have to choose between taking a chance going through the ring or starving to death. They had no clue what was going to be on that planet. You don't seem capable of looking at anything from multiple perspectives, which is exactly what they try to get you to do with this show. Good luck with that.

[@TheDetailsMatter]

Holden publicly hailed as a crazy person. The Don Quixote ethic strikes again. So, Lucia blew up the pad, and shrapnel from the pad blew up the RCE shuttle. Great. Mystery solved. And now we're back to square one with the razorflies. Where did they come from? What drew them to the settlement? What is their niche in the ecosystem? Are they food for metal birds?

[@Drewe223]

Murtry is definitely a bad guy, but it makes me so happy that Steven at least gets where he's coming from. Almost his entire crew was killed unprovoked, he had his life personally threatened to his face, then he literally directly overheard a conversation in which they were outright conspiring to kill him. He might not be a good guy, but to act as though his actions are completely unwarrented seems silly. So many people act like he's some pure evil scumbag but honestly given the circumstances I think he's extremely level headed.

[@davebcf1231]

It wasn't unprovoked, it was a vague threat that could have been all talk and certainly didn't justify immediate execution, he overheard that conversation and then chose to again go execute those people despite having knockout gas and the drop on their plans. Amos already explained to you exactly what he does. He makes all the excuses that make him seem right when in actuality he's actively pursuing the violent course of action, not looking for any sort of peaceful resolution.

[@Drewe223]

@@davebcf1231 When I said unprovoked I mean the belters killed his crew without provocation. My point is not that Murtry is right or making the best decisions. I simply take issue with the degree to which many reactors seem incapable of seeing his perspective. Again, I think he is doing the wrong thing, I just have a lot more empathy for his point of view

[@davebcf1231]

@@Drewe223 And when I say it wasn't unprovoked I mean that for the belters it was not unprovoked. He is an invader coming to evict them from their colony and they've been denied from going anywhere else. Eviction is a death sentence for them. That doesn't mean the belters did the right thing, but it seems a lot of people defending Murtry don't take their perspective into consideration at all. I just have a lot more empathy for their perspective. Refugees who were made refugees through the actions of Earth and Mars and are desperately doing what they can to survive vs. a corporate security force there to get them off the planet by any means necessary so that their corporation can profit from the planet. That's not unprovoked.

[@IdleCommentator]

@@Drewe223 That's not his perspective though - that's what his justifications for his actions are that he presents to the others. He does not give a rat-ass about the people, who died on the shuttle - the man is psychopath, who enjoys killing, he does not care about anyone but himself. The only thing he cares in this situation is that *he personally* could have been killed on that shuttle and as a result of potential OPA members attack.

[@Drewe223]

@@davebcf1231 I feel the exact same but in the opposite direction. I feel like most of the people who hate Murtry dont actually stop to think about how the Belters are behaving or how that looks from Murtry's perspective. You seem to have a pretty balanced view of the situation, I feel like many people do not.

[@AngeloBarovierSD]

And so the division over Murtry begins. _Pulls up lawnchair._ Dis gon be good!

[@TheParagade]

Watching this reaction years after the fact, so I don't have to worry as much about spoilers with my comment: I laughed when they wondered how far Marco was willing to go, like oh boy you've got no idea 😂

[@LeeCarlson]

Power is about the ability to control access to resources. RCE wants to control access to the Lithium deposits on the planet which the Belters have been mining. To have that control, Murtry has to remove the Belters from the planet.

[@monicawism]

I love when you two don't agree on everything. Makes for a more interesting reaction!😍

[@Sindragosa]

Sheesh. Only five episodes left.

[@boom-tz3wc]

Season 5 pretty soon

[@LeeCarlson]

That bright flash at the end of the episode is what you see when a fusion reactor decides to go critical.

[@kiri7678]

I’m happy that Steven is understanding where Murtry is coming from. He’s obviously not a ‘good’ dude, he’s clearly got something against belters and so he’s looking for an excuse to remove them from the settlement. At the same time, the belters are basically handing him that excuse tied up in a ribbon; the commit an unprovoked terrorist attack, the leader of the belter colony protects the criminals from justice, then when Murtry takes matters into his own hands, Holdun’s crew turns against him and his men get kidnapped. Personally I thought the Belters and Murtry were just as bad as each other.

[@xwhogafx815]

Love watching these reactions thanks y'all ❤

[@sergusy7005]

I do love this show. You know, the show does an incredible job. It shows there are no either good or bad people. Everyone is right from his or her point of view. That’s how all the parts of the divided society grew their people to believe.

[@piepmeyer1]

The "bugs" didn't tear up the ship, it was too close to the landing pad, and the explosion damaged the ship and made it crash, but if she hadn't set off the explosion early, the ship would've been right on the landing pad when its engine set off the bombs and everyone aboard would've died. The "bugs" only arrived when Miller started turning things on when Holden came through the ring gate later with him and the protomolecule sample aboard the Roci. (Miller needed a ride through the gate, so the sample must've needed to get through the gate to communicate with whatever is on the planet) He told Holden he was "flipping switches", which turned on the "bugs" only once they got there.

[@ozcanison]

The thing i like about Murtrys character, is that he's a sadistic asshole who does everything badly, but, the things he says are usually fairly correct. Its what i love about the show, characters who just arent black or white/good or evil, but everything in between.

[@amirgunn4624]

I think all the comments and people trying to explain Murtry are a little superfluous bc Amos already explained it. All he is is a killer, he just has the excuses to make him seem right.

[@nottopcat5956]

Amir Gunn he is a killer, but it’s not all he is. I think he genuinely believes he’s in the right.

[@brilobox2]

Not Top Cat nobody thinks they’re not in the right, that’s not how it works. Murtry loves his job, he loves it even more when the opposition choose the ‘hard way’.

[@kirkdarling4120]

If you recall, Murtry explicitly identified his mission when he was first on the way down: Murtry's mission from the beginning was to take over the Belter camp and take their lithium. He said he'd done it before...and of course, the Belters already knew the modus operandi of Earth corporations. The Belters were able to get to Ilus in a crippled ship, build a camp, and start a mine stake. If the Belters could do that, then the RCE and the Edward Israel surely had the ability to build their own landing pad elsewhere. They've been ferrying down equipment since then without a landing pad, which proves it. If they had peaceful intention, they would have landed elsewhere instead of landing in the Belter camp without permission. They're doing exactly what Murtry intended to do at the start. I think, though, except for Drummer's love of Naomi, she'd tend to side with Marco. The two of them have similar views of the future of the Belt. Neither of them sees a future in the Ring for Belters, as Belters. They're both opposed to the concept of a Belter "nation" or of Belters immigrating to Ring and becoming a new kind of Inner. They want to see Belters in control of the Belt, strong enough as a confederation of factions to keep the Inners out of their affairs. I agree with Nikki that what they've got now is not really a peace, and most Belters realize that. Mars is mostly out of the game as they try to keep their own government intact, the Belters have no real warships. The UN is in control. If you recall in the first episode, when the Belters were running the blockade, they showed us a scene of Lucia, her husband, and daughter holding hands and shouting, "Go, go, go!" If you missed it, Murtry had instructed the Edward Israel not to communicate with Earth. If Murtry were on the up-and-up, he'd have no problem reporting the situation back to higher headquarters. But he knows they'd tell him that his actions were wrong. Steven is right that the Protomolecule on Illus was dead until Holden brought Miller to the planet. Remember that blob of Protomolecule is still on the Roci.

[@andykoegelenberg6376]

On a ship by the ring near Uranus, the Flyboy got some surgeon skill and the Belta girls bond

[@Kalmera6238]

There is a great line from the books that really highlights the issue with Murphy. "It's easy for your hands to be clean when you define when history begins." Morty did come there to remove the belters he is talking about it on the way down. This is like an Indian village firing on the East India Company. RCE coming here to take what belongs to the belters is an act of aggression. Amos said it clearly Murty has all the reasons that make him sound justified but he is just playing out his cowboy fantasy. I would never trust my fate to his mercy

[@hello6775_ava]

okay i just recently started watching Once Upon a Time on netflix and it is SO good. i would love to see you guys react to it since you guys are my favorite reaction channel

[@Raptorrex65]

Stay tuned for the next episode of what sweet hell is this. Lol

[@VenoRPG]

Man they're flying through this so fast, it's going to be a sad day when the season is over :( I wonder what is next on the reaction list?

[@chaddesrosiers1107]

He got it pregnant... lmao. He did some gardening. lol You guys are funny.

[@garethneller8239]

Murty's reasons are sound... but his actions are psychopathic! The Belters actions are obviously wrong but they were done out of desperation. One of the things I love about the Expanse us that for the most part, there are no bad guys for the sake of bad guys. Everyone has their justifications... Or in the words of Anderson Dawes: "Good and bad, don't get distracted by that, it will just confuse you"

[@shaunnoel5891]

Can I add a show recommendation? Turn:Washington Spies is an excellent suspenseful show! Highly enjoyable and it is on Netflix!

[@yellowdevil8396]

cant wait for their reaction to the final 2 episodes

[@thontor]

26:24 The planet doesn't care if people are fighting. Their petty squabbles are inconsequential. You just heard Holden say in this episode that Proto-Miller is just flipping switches and seeing what lights came on. Maybe one of those "lights" malfunctioned and exploded. The timing is pure coincidence.

[@MS_25826]

Love the conflicting views on Murtry. Very interesting. Murtry makes points, but I don’t agree with him just killing whoever he wants. I liked what Naomi said to Holden. Tell them the truth and let them make their own decisions.

[@stu42000]

Even though Bobbie and Esai Martin and Marco were not in this episode, Steve suspects that there is a connection between Belters stealing Martian military equipment, Esai working with Belters; and one Belter in particular. Marco has hinted something about Mars. This episode does tell you a little of what Marco is capable of with Naomi's story. Why did Security pull Avasarala from a debate and tell her about a possible threat to Earth - the Sojourner - it disappeared and then re-appeared on a collision course with Earth right after Avasarala brags about protecting Earth from Eros' crashing into Earth. Hmmm. . . .

[@PsychoMuffinSDM]

The weird thing about this season is just how much happens on a planet in a show that has been so much about people going all over the place in space.

[@ferdifritzsch7739]

Mankind at it`s best/"best" :) love it

[@remigiodecastrojr.909]

Oh my, it's the first time I see you two in heated argument. This episode did a number on both of you. Haha!

[@Jack251190]

Someone being an arsehole doesnt automatically make them wrong. Dont get me wrong, i dont like Murtry and i do think he enjoys killing. But he does make some points here.

[@jrich749]

Bugs did nothing to the shuttle. That was all from the exploding landing pad. Those belters intended to kill everyone but the shuttle was 'saved' by the medic chick.

[@philmarston9078]

I loved Naomi's little backstory speech. Marco although charming could be described as being evil. Amos? Is he really evil or is he just a man trying to figure out his place in the universe? This show does an amazing job at portraying good and evil in ways that require you to explore morality and your own viewpoint. It's never clear cut enough to be an absolute. There are always grey areas for us to figure out in our own heads. Murtry began as someone you could sympathise with, but is slowly changing into something not pleasant at all. Looking forward to the next reaction.

[@brilobox2]

Marco wants to destroy Earth and Mars to free his people from oppression. But the UN and MCR need the resources of the Belt to keep their massively larger populations from suffering and dying. He’s evil if he wants to kill you, or you think killing is bad, so pretty evil for the vast majority. Amos doesn’t want to kill anyone except very bad people who make other people’s lives miserable to enrich themselves or people trying to kill him and his friends. He’s very unlikely to be considered evil.

[@philmarston9078]

@@brilobox2 yeah but you can sympathise with marco to a degree. that's the good thing about this show. it presents the arguments of all sides very well.

[@davebeattie9573]

RCE was operating under a UN charter to carryout scientific research of the planet (charter 24771912-F23). The original intent was to study the planet for several years prior to anyone living there. The bombers intended to destroy the landing ship once it landed on the pad, by blowing up the pad, but the bomb was detonated prematurely by Lucia Mazur. This resulted in shrapnel from the explosion bringing down the ship and killing 25 of those on board. After Murtry found evidence that the pad had been sabotaged he told the belters to hand over the perpetrators, and the belters responded by closing ranks and making more threats. Murtry then needlessly escalated things by murdering an unarmed man, and the belters responded by conspiring to murder RCE employees, and Murtry then had his people kill the collaborators as they emerged from their hideout. The belters then took hostages. As much as I might sympathize with the plight of the survivors of Ganymede, they lost all credibility by attacking a ship that was merely attempting to land. The purpose of the landing ship, was to conduct scientific research of the planet. I imagine one of the purposes of the research would have been to determine if the planet was safe for colonization. In most sci-fi, all alien worlds are earth like with little threat from things like viruses, flora, fauna, etc. However The Expanse has, through the protomolecule, established that unknown worlds can have unexpected hazards.

[@ComradeCommissarYuri]

Have you ever considered that maybe just maybe the protomolicule is always listening to Holden?

[@beastofbray1742]

"Maybe I just have that kind of face..." No shit. This poor guy is just type-casted to be the villain in every franchise he's a part of.

[@darrenrichardson6146]

Burn Gorman does indeed have "That kind of face" and plays bad bastards quite well, he can play nice though, just watch Torchwood S1 & 2!

[@marcc1830]

The "proto-bugs" has nothing to do with the RCE ship. It's the shrapnel from the platform that took the ship apart. What Murtry said is justified from RCE point but the real problem is his intention which he states times and times again to Wei is about the lithium and basically anyone who stand in his way is pretty much going get taken out. If his intention was to resolve the situation peacefully with the Belters, there are many other ways. Oh yes, the real bad thing here is "gardening", poor Holden always in the middle of a cluster**** of a ****storm :D

[@derschlupp5770]

Naomi is pushing herself so hard because she wants to prove that she can live in a gravity well. That's going to be important if she and Holden ever have children since his parents live on earth and probably want to see their grandchildren from time to time. For me, she is desperately trying to hold on to this dream. Marco also has a huge point that Belter's that can't or want to live in gravity wells might just gonna be left to slowly die and cut off from the inners supply lines if they don't take a stand now.

[@natashasullivan4559]

I'm with Nikki on this one..

[@dragoninthewest1]

Nikki, Miller said he was flipping switches to see what comes. The idea that the explosion is related to the belligerents of the humans is a *correlation equals causation fallacy.* I'm pretty sure what happened was a billion year old reactor went critical after Miller turned it on because something broke.

[@TeshnosFire]

"Gass them" means to knock them out xP

[@richieeskew4145]

Also, I don't think this is a spoiler at least I hope not. I don't think the planet is reacting to anything that the colonists are doing or even the Roci crew. I think the planet is strictly reacting to what Miller is doing and also I guess what Holden does for Miller once arriving.

[@TheSirUno]

This Manifest Destiny bullsh*t of RCE and the UN with respect to Illus makes my blood boil - I kinda love it. It’s great when a show can illicit such intense emotion...and at its core, Murtry. Dude is written and acted to perfection.

[@brilobox2]

Earth has 20 billion people stuck on it doing nothing, being nothing. That’s no way to live. Ilus represents a chance to be human again for all those people. Try and stop that force of nature because a handful of beligerent squaters have set up on an ideal planet and don’t want anyone else there because they think they deserve it. It ain’t gonna happen.

[@rodentnolastname6612]

Its better explained in the books, the chain of islands producing heat was a chain of gigantic fusion reactors

[@hoos3014]

Explained in the next episode

[@rodentnolastname6612]

@@hoos3014 thanks, didn't remember how deep they get into the details

[@TOCZEKX]

16:43 You do not negotiate with terrorists.

[@LeeCarlson]

You know how you were looking at Marco Inaros being connected to Esai Martin on Mars? What is he's also connected to Nancy Gao on Earth? If that's the case then the security alert in the middle of the debate seems much less a coincidence or bad timing.

[@Haegemon]

Reactor Explodes Blue Alien: How we could expect that our reactors after millions of years with no maintenance would explode when switched on?

[@LeeCarlson]

Murtry talks about everybody paying for what they have done, however, it is obvious that he does not plan on being held to account for his actions.

[@brilobox2]

They murdered innocent people then the rest of the camp hid the perpetrators. I doubt he would have faced anything more than a slap on the wrist for killing the terrorists after he recorded them planning to murder more RCE employees.

[@LeeCarlson]

@@brilobox2 Of course, that's because he is an Earther and they are Belters, so RCE has the "legal" right to be on "New Terra" where the Belters are "squatters" on "Illus." Reminds me of a dude named George Armstrong Custer.

[@aljosapetkovic69]

LOL @ Nikki's soft loving heart. This is why we have balance in life, not everything can be a peaceful resolution. I'll say it for you Stephen i know you're holding back :) Murtry is correct, obviously prejudiced against belters, but correct for the most part.

[@doorran]

sometimes just a plain white tee shirt rules. girl cheated to get a seat doesn't matter what cool thing she did for her first and secodn runner up.

[@Yora21]

Morty is like Amos used to be, except that he doesn't listen to others to help him judge situations.

[@smirabal350]

Interesting thing is this season reminds me of the Video game "Mass Effect: Andromeda". The whole game is the same concept as the TV series.

[@bobriemersma]

Never think that anything Naomi says is the whole story. Never.

[@TealJosh]

lol?

[@GutkowskiMarek]

I like to point out to Nikki that Gassing the camp will not kill people. Its a knock-out gas, not kill people gas.

[@SnaFubar_24]

Can someone who knows remind me what the stated purpose of Murtry's landing was in the first place? I get that they want to do research, but there are so many open systems they could have done research on. Why must belters and inners be on the same planet ever? Everyone knows how badly treated belters have been but if inners researched elsewhere no issues between the groups would occur.

[@sneedmando186]

Sorry Steven, I’m with her, Yes everybody has done some terrible things, but I think the most important thing is who made the first chess move, the land belongs to the belters, the inner worlds tried to play manifest destiny with the new planets

[@Matej_Sojka]

Naomi can stay on planet surface, she just needs more time for her body to be prepared to deal with constant high gravity. It does not mean she never will be able to live on a planet.

[@gabsrants]

lol "I think he went and got it pregnant."

[@fluffy_walrus]

Murtry's mission was to assess the planet's resources and kick the Belters out, so immediately, Murtry's crew needs to be recognized as antagonists in anything they were doing. The Belters were just reacting to that antagonism and aggression, sometimes violently, but the mission Murtry and his corp has was violent in its intent, so it's hardly unjustified. It's super unfortunate that some of the scientists in Murtry's crew were killed and hurt, but that's on Murtry's corp for making that call and going in with bad intent. Of course, the Belters 100% could have handled the situation a heck of a lot better, but these are people who the UN and Mars refused to offer any help to after destroying their homes on Ganymede (so realistically, there's a justified claim for reparations there that the UN and Mars haven't met), they were demanding these Belters choose between death via starvation & exposure, or death by being shot down in an attempt to get through the ring gate and find themselves a home. They literally do not have anywhere else they can realistically go if the UN and Murtry's corp would refuse them the freedom to find another planet (if they could even survive that long), so again, they're being asked to essentially die politely by leaving the planet, or violently by fighting back against Murtry's crew. There's no road to survival for them through what Murtry's demanding of them, so of course they're being stubborn and not leaving. Holden could have called up Avasarala and had her rescind the contract for Murtry's crew and had them leave, to alleviate the concerns of the belters that they wouldn't be allowed to stay after the danger's been assessed, but I guess that didn't cross the Roci crew's minds.