The Expert Behind Google’s Secret A.I. Writing Tool | Steven Johnson | How I Write Podcast

Steven Johnson has studied software and AI-based tools for thought for more than 35 years. His consensus? Large Language models and human creativity aren’t at odds. They’re at their best when they work in harmony.
Johnson has written thirteen books, many of which explore how tools and technologies expand what humans are capable of and transform societies. He created NotebookLM to help writers use AI to supplement their creative process - not to replace their thinking, but to amplify it.
In this episode, you’ll learn how to capture ideas without friction, how to seamlessly structure your work, how to leverage the element of surprise, and how to turn sheer information into unique insight - all while using AI, of course.
Ultimately, you’ll soak up Johnson’s 35 years of expertise and come away with actionable steps to make your writing process faster and your insights more surprising.
SPEAKER LINKS:
Website: stevenberlinjohnson.com/
Twitter: / stevenbjohnson
Book: www.amazon.com/Steven-Johnson...
Google Research: / @googleresearch
Google NotebookLM: notebooklm.google/
WRITE OF PASSAGE:
Want to learn more about the next class Write of Passage?
take.writeofpassage.school/wr...
PODCAST LINKS:
Website: writeofpassage.school/how-i-w...
Apple: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSbo...
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00:00 Introduction
00:01:31 Teaching Google
00:11:05 LLMs vs ChatGPT
00:16:05 Articles vs Books
00:20:30 Editing
00:27:20 Structure
00:35:00 Spark File
00:37:00 Jony Ive
00:38:20 Tools for thought
00:47:00 Google NotebookLM
00:50:30 Write faster
00:56:00 Writing on the level of sentences
01:05:10 The Infernal Machine
01:15:35 Writing curriculum
01:29:00 Core idea
ABOUT THE HOST:
I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible.

[@DavidPerellChannel]

Steven Johnson is one of Google's in-house AI writing experts. He's also written for the New York Times, hosted multiple PBS documentaries, and is about to publish his 14th book. Some takeaways from our interview: 1. Young ideas are fragile. Being too critical in the early days is the fastest way to squash your creative spirit. 2. Sometimes, it’s easier to remember where things are stored than what is stored. Just as spiders offload cognitive tasks to their webs, humans outsource memory to their notes. 3. Collect all your ideas in a Google Doc and review it every six months. Johnson calls this a "Spark File." 4. A little messiness sows the seeds of creative serendipity, so don't make your notes too orderly. 5. Literary structure is like design: you need to minimize friction, immerse the reader, and make it really, really easy for them to keep scrolling. When the structure of a piece works, the reader doesn't notice it. 6. Start writing once you have ~50% clarity about what you're going to say. 7. A good prompt to give ChatGPT or NotebookLM: “Give me a more interesting take.” 8. Don't reread your work as you're writing it. You can't see it clearly, anyways. Better to keep moving towards a complete draft. 9. The benefit of a good note-taking system lies in finding documents you've forgotten about altogether, that you didn't even know you were looking for. 10. Imitate your favorite writers: In college, Steven Johnson often took papers and rewrote them in the style of Foucault and his other intellectual heroes. It helped him find his own style: “You eventually build your own voice out of some weird mix of all those different styles.” 11. The growth hacks culture has taught everyone to write in short punchy sentences, but a glorious long sentence can be an incredible tool too. It can be the literary equivalent of a cinematic track shot: skillful, immersive, and rich with context. 12. People think invention happens via Eureka Moments, but ideas often have a very long incubation period before they strike you as a powerful hunch.

[@alexander12327]

Cool show.

[@WilkinsMichael]

Great interview. Just listening to guys gave me tons of ideas. Had to stop the video to take notes at least a dozen times.

[@iAmWriting247]

Excited for this!

[@afterthesmash]

My brain was trying to improve your word choices, and I mentally edited "typology of different waste-removing entities" into "cacology of different waste-removing entities". Perhaps adjective for the old _Mad Max_ films. Voice-of-God promo trailer: "In a world where ecology has given way to cacology, one man stands alone in his gun-toting hip waders ... "

[@ML-up5mm]

Interesting!

[@natirvinii9120]

This is ghost map excellent

[@misterkel10]

US only. Sure.

[@peteweishaupt]

"When structure works you don't notice it." I don't pay enough attention to structure, need to learn much more. Rarely do I listen to a podcast twice, but this one I'm queuing up my third pass...