The Extreme That Broke Us - Shadowbringers FFXIV

[@ChrisMorray]

"My suffering is canon" - Garrett

[@ancientspark375]

If you want to do more EXs, it might be worth looking at the Trial series EXes instead. Due to how EXes are structured for end-game, the first two EXes in an expansion are designed to be easier (to get initial Savage gear for the first tier and to ease people into Savage in general). Whereas other EXes are designed to give raiders something to do in between big Savage raid tiers. This is a big reason why there's such a big difficulty disparity.

[@anythingmasterz]

Came here to say this too!

[@spadesart]

is that why endwalker ex4 beat my ass so hard? i decided to try it as my first synced extreme lmaooo

[@lucalopez9604]

@@spadesart yeah, EX4 is rough. it's my favorite fight in the whole game, but my god, phase 2 and 4 are just rough, shoutouts to BLM players out there. Highly recommend EW EX2 to get started in synced content, EX5 is also not so bad, but I feel EX2 teaches more basic skills.

[@crownmemory6945]

@@spadesart ex4 EW movement mechanic is on par with several savages, the only thing that made that fight isn't savage tier is because that fight doesn't give personal debuffs to each players Meanwhile EX5 is the opposite, when the cheat sheet dropped for the pizzas all you only need to focus is the spread/stack debuff after the add phase

[@loupinconnu]

So, a couple of thoughts on things that you guys brought up in the video. 1st, I find that a lot of the learning that is done in FF is via teaching/mentorship. For whatever reason, the game really ends up having this passing of knowledge down from one person to the next, and that's probably where streamers have it the roughest. Because you're getting "taught" by people who have all had different teachers themselves. Thus, you end up with multiple viewpoints on certain things. Now we do have our own version of icyveins known as The Balance, but that's a discord that you have to join and generally only has information that applies to current endgame. What you guys are doing requires finding some trusted people who can just point you in the right direction as needed. Secondly, don't feel too bad, Garret. Oblation is a level 82 ability. You wouldn't have had it for Hades Extreme. And finally, you're getting to the point of escalating where there is going to be a lot of conflicting opinions when it comes to savage. I'm going to suggest that unless you really want to suffer to not do any of the Alexander fights on savage and just start with Omega. "Modern" savage design didn't come about until the final Alexander tier, and it really shows. So save yourselves the frustration and just start with Omega or Eden. Also, don't feel like you have to do savage on MINE. The 3rd and 4th floors are particularly difficult even for experienced players, so don't feel like you have to do them with handicaps that even world first raiders avoid.

[@Raika63]

The Balance and the related discord is basically recognized as the authoritative source for optimization - although until now you probably didn’t have enough of your abilities for it to make a lot of sense. They usually have some nice info graphics to go over openers as well.

[@SapphireDragon357]

I'm sure a bunch of lovely people who actually gather the information for the site are fine, but I don't go there for moral reasons. [Trigger Warning] Unfortunately the web designer for The Balance is a confessed rapist who stole the entire design from SaltedXIV.

[@waffles89fc]

The Balance isn't for optimisation. It is good for basic openers and dummy rotations though. Optimisation is either doing it yourself with spreadsheets and all the info for a particular fight or ripping it off of someone else by putting their logs into xivanalysis. Also for the love of god don't ask specific questions in the balance. I have an astro friend who used their cards wrong for months because they did that while learning. Edit: Thought I should add I'm not saying that no one in the balance knows what they're talking about (Perfect Balance for monk for example is really good) just that there's still a lot of misinformation floating around in there too.

[@vdinh143]

Optimization isn't a product that you can ship out shrink-wrapped. Are there good players and resources on that discord server? Yes. Are there bad (yet somehow overly loud and authoritative) players? Yes. Take the good and leave the bad. They aren't the bible.

[@Shaltinanwenor]

I ended up learning mostly through the various ultimate discords I joined, but yeah. The Balance is... not always the best? But it's definitely good enough if you want to "begin" your optimisation phase

[@waffles89fc]

@@Shaltinanwenor Similar to the way I learned essentially networking in the community. Although the first place I started learning how to optimise properly was in a logging discord then later in ultimate groups...don't tell Yoshi.

[@FinalDragoon]

7:10 "A clear is a clear." - That is the mantra when it comes to FF14 content. It doesn't matter how you got to the finish line, the important thing is you did it.

[@ericbright1742]

I remember playing the 6.3 Normal Trial, almost immediately grokking one of the mechanics, and thinking to myself "...Oh Gods, this is going to SUCK on Extreme."

[@jasongarrett768]

I love/hate that I know which one.

[@lordtalon9533]

@@jasongarrett768 i think anyone who has done that fight knows which one

[@bipedalanimeskull]

i hate that fight with a passion lol. I can do EW trial 1 EX with ease, and despite that one also being like "follow the safety dorito" kind of fight, it trips me the hell out

[@ridleyroid9060]

Spoileer It did

[@jothki]

I can guess which one as well. It's so absurdly trivial as presented in the normal version, but the obvious extreme varient seems like it'd require you to read the whole stage at once.

[@therealkami]

For Hades: The chandeliers falling explosion is exactly as big as the circles on the floor for the fight. I don't know if anyone has mentioned that to you before, but arenas are often designed with mechanics in mind.

[@anounyoumissed4073]

Ffxiv is so good about arena markers, especially in the most recent expansions.

[@furanpyon]

unironically the "there are lines on the floor" video is actually one of the most helpful 😂

[@PrincessNoamie]

@furanpyon i was just about to say, "somebody link the Lines On The Floor video to them. Covers every mechanic!"

[@richardwallis9374]

There’s always the “sit in the middle and eat 2 vulns” strat

[@ericmoll1530]

@@PrincessNoamie Sadly I think that'd be spoilers since it references p8.

[@Valkross9]

Minstrel's Ballads are usually the first big jump in difficulty for Extremes.

[@Valkross9]

Dark Missionary... Midnight Missionary is something completely different and unrelated to the game. 😉😉

[@Amovetv]

eye.emoji

[@flygonkerel781]

Bruh now I'm curious lmfao

[@knightish]

lol

[@johndoh9395]

The fact that Balmung is even mentioned. Meep.

[@krise99391]

The thing about Weskalber's videos is that, as he says, the aim is to get people decent, and give them an understanding of the job. If you want to optimize you'll have to go further. The best resource for optimization is probably "the balance" discord, but it varies from job to job a little. Weskalber is probably the best at giving you the understanding though, since watching his videos makes it easier to understand each action you have. (assuming that you're good at paying attention to videos)

[@qamarqammar7629]

His videos fill a really important niche. He's great at explaining the foundations of a job to players who've never seen it before. Balance is for starting to optimize later.

[@Rakka5]

Garrett, as a fellow tank player who started 3 years ago, don't worry about not having used all your mitigations until you actually hit a challenge. These fights like the Extremes and ESPECIALLY Savages are designed to make you learn just how useful these abilities are. In the current raid tier with my static we actually had to set up macros to call out mitigation order for a certain fight so that the boss doesn't annihilate us. But once you learn it stays with you. There is a great feeling in going back to old dungeons/trials and actually realizing "wait I can mitigate like 20% of this aoe damage here so that the healers have a much easier job", you get much better with wall-to-wall pulls in dungeons etc. Learning is really really rewarding, good job on the clear and progress!

[@Kasaaz]

And if it makes him feel any better, Oblation didn't exist when they added Hades EX.

[@xXAkirhaXx]

Replying to stress the point Rakka is bringing up. The important part about the game is clearing the fight, not how you did it, the game will require your skill and your team mates skill as the bosses difficulty ramp up. If you forgot mitigation, or didn't do your rotation perfectly, the game simply didn't require it. But don't worry, it has those challenges to xD.

[@firedrake110]

Doing P2S on week one definitely reminded people that mitigation matters lol

[@rajabuta]

Congratulations boys. And bring eyedrops for the next extreme kyle 😂

[@herebejamz]

The Minstrel knows because you tell him. When you hit them up you just kinda sit and chat for a few hours, I'm guessing he's just good at asking the right questions to tell a good tale.

[@solario8628]

He's also Yoshi P and therefore knows everything there is to know about everything.

[@TarossBlackburn]

And then he exaggerates the everliving Light out of it.

[@garbagemancer8592]

Hades Ex as a tank made me feel so goddamn powerful, even as off-tank.

[@NightshadeTS]

Especially those ad phases!!

[@tinybee7780]

At first I was definitely hesistant to try the higher version of the fights I've already beaten during the MSQ. However, thanks to the encouragement of a lot of people I managed to have a newfound appreciation to how awesome these extreme fights can be. It's always so satisying to discover brand new things you didn't know your job can do. The moment I was able to discover that I could climb Zenos'/Shinryu's tail and make my way towards his main body while I frantically try to dodge his lasers - all of this happening while Zenos/Shinryu taunts me to come to him, while also "STORM OF BLOOD, BORN FROM BLOOD" music is playing in the background, is still one of the most hype things I've ever experienced in this game.

[@MissingNo_]

As a healer, I loved Hades Extreme at release. So fun. I am however, a White Mage main since ARR.

[@nslater1388]

I was in a similar position where I only really started to pay attention to my job abilities after struggling with an extreme. It’s an eye opener.

[@xenomemphate]

It was Savage for me. I was like Garret and Kyle here - we did Titania and Innocence, then decided to go into Eden Savage and it was a massive eye-opener to how bad I actually was.

[@ShakeyMac18]

I think you two would absolutely love all three of the Four Lords EX trials. Not only is the music in each one some of Soken's best work but the fights themselves all manage to be unique and challenging in their own way.

[@divinedragoonkain]

The "chandeliers", by the way, did have telegraphs on the floor. They were just matching the patterns on the arena instead of the energy telegraph.

[@D0cSwiss]

There are a lot of mechanics in the game that are pre-telegraphed by there being stuff on the arena's floor. The moment I learned that I feel like I got way better at the game.

[@ChipotleKanetsu]

@@D0cSwiss There are lines!…

[@serisothikos]

SCH main here: having one of us (or a SGE) along really does help out if the person's learned the fight and knows where to pre-shield. Blowing a spread critlo at the right time can be a gamechanger. 5.0/5.1 extremes were all a great time; glad you enjoyed!

[@VideoCrimzon]

Can't wait till you guys tackle the trial series for Shadowbringers as well

[@beurtalvarez]

and one of the best boss musics of the whole game (Garrett will explode discovering it)

[@Peter436745]

For end game rotations and bis stuff why not use the balance discord? It's what most people use and generally there is no discourse about their content (at least not that I heard off) Edit: there might be fight names on the discord for some specific optimizations and such and gear sources so proceed with caution

[@nomnomnom298]

Susano ex and the warring triad ex are all pretty fun imo. Worth doing them during downtime. But there are some upcoming ones that take the cake 😊

[@kaleiohulee6693]

Remember... remember Kyle once lived.

[@shinyuy]

1) Do Susano. Revel in his glory. 2) prepare your butts for the patch content extremes because some of them are right up there with Tsukuomi and Shinryu with their complexity but with the Hades' tight maneuvers and timing. The jams are also great. 3) there is nothing that can prepare you for the story involved with those extremes. Your suffering will continue to be canon. 4) We continue to be proud of you both for your perseverance and your willingness to improve. My Husband is an AST Main and he continues to be proud of Kyle's progression even if he still has nitpick moments. I do not play AST because it is too many buttons for my glitter covered WHM smooth brain. Garrett not using some of his buttons is just helping his friend improve.

[@squidlump]

As a WHM main, proging the final wing of Eden savage is what taught me how to be a healer. It was my first savage tier at the time and each fight granted me mastery over different parts of my kit

[@droid_x]

Same here with abyssos. I barely used aqua veil and divine benison but that changed after doing P5S on week 1 . And P8S makes you use all of you kit.

[@duncanmacleod6274]

In my opinion, even old extremes don't require the kind of optimal play to the point where the "wrong" opener really makes a difference. To the extent that people disagree with what's the best set of melds and exactly optimized rotation, that matters a bit in Savage+ and min I-level Extremes. It should not matter so long as you're not wasting resources unnecessarily and not dying. Very few pieces of content have DPS checks so hard that a slightly un-optimal rotation matters. It's the death and damage downs debuffs that are supposed to make you fail those.

[@Direwolf1618]

Watching the guys muddle through fights we have been farming unsynced for mounts has been fun. And eye opening.

[@jhazor]

How does the wandering minstrel know? He's Yoshi-P's self insert. He's an integral part of the Rising festival which always includes a full 4th wall break message to the players from the Devs

[@Zikoro]

You don't have to worry too much Garret! Only one skill you didn't use since you couldn't do your level 82 mitigation during the EX!

[@TheHyny]

If I get to press all my buttons in a way that helps progress happen then I'm satisfied. I've always hated the mentality of "peak performance" and "absolute optimization" in games where there is freedom of choice involved. It takes the fun out of it for me. For example: Monster Hunter - If my gear and gameplay won't get me carted for stupid reasons then that's good enough. No need to hunt for personal bests or anything. Satisfactory - Planning production lines, logistics, energy consumption and materials in a way that they bring the optimal output? Cathartic. Love it. FFXIV - Don't burn the healers Mana bar more than necessary while making decent use of most skills and that's good enough. I'm not dunking on people who like to optimize, I find it fun on occasion too. But too much of that breaks the fun factor away. (No idea what provoked this comment from me in the first place but here it is 😂)

[@TrueZero2]

A friend of mine that plays Astrologian has been going through the Endwalker Savage Raids, and in Tier 1, his static got to a point regarded by many as 'The Wall' of the tier. If you get past that fight reliably, you're ready to take on the rest of the tier. Turns out, his party was starting to reliably clear that fight... without him being aware of one of his abilities. As soon as he discovered it and worked it in, the fight became much easier to heal and his static has since gone on to clear Tier 1 and Tier 2, and now they're moving on to Ultimates while they wait for Tier 3 to drop.

[@Minsc582]

Garrett reminds me of when I was learning Dark knight last year. The discovery of raid wide mitigation like reprisal and dark missionary was amazing. No longer did people die to raid ride damage because the healers were out of everything. The real icing on the cake though was learning Dark Mind isn't garbage like I had heard. It was truly mind blowing to find out how good it was.

[@Ravio.Helianthus]

Dark Mind is always underrated for how good it actually is

[@trial_with_an_error9687]

We're almost to the next expansion and I'm genuinely happy you guys are taking your sweet time with this.

[@gradientforce761]

Hades EX was my first extreme, I learned a LOT in that fight, and coming from no raiding background in any MMO it took me a week I think to finally clear. I love that fight to this day for what it taught me

[@abm1381]

You guys have the right mind of it. You do not need perfect play to clear an extreme. It just makes them run more smoothly. Do you both have room to optimize and improve? Of course! You still cleared though and that is an achievement. Blind, even! Y'all have so much respect and appreciation for the content and that makes you guys so fun to watch.

[@anacreon212]

When it comes to high level stuff. The balance discord is kind of the primary source of info and kind of the agreed upon information. That is where all the high end class guides are.

[@hounddog5]

Great video! I loved the edits and graphics (I loled at the axes) Fun fact, blue circle as knockback goes all the way back to Sephirot, and I think you may have seen it during Wreath of Snakes as well? But it is definitely harder to see than the big arrows, I know I still get wrecked by those circles. Another fun fact, and I'm sure you know this now as you said you watch videos after the fight is over, the Hades falling circles from the sky with the "knockback bigger than the circles"...the actual size of the circle aoes line up with the decorative designs on the floor! This happens a lot in future content, so always be sure to keep an eye on the floor design.

[@ComicalRiddler]

WeskAlber does provide a disclaimer that the opebers he provided are more to give you an idea of what goes into making perfect openers, rather than give you a perfect opener fun the get-go

[@niwawa]

On the point of not having a shield healer sometimes, I wouldn't worry too much about it! Shield has a very different mindset from regen healing in general, since your focus is on mitigation rather than raw healing. I'm a SCH main who has all classes maxed, and if I don't play on my main, I regularly get shield healers who don't shield and play reactively as if they're on regen healers anyway. It's a hard slot to learn because people don't realize that the mindset is slightly different, and generally it isn't as popular as I might like it to be. :( Double regen is the much more forgiving of the healer double ups, so even if it's a PUG with viewers who would optimally play SCH or SGE for you in these extremes, it's really not bad. 😊

[@gradientforce761]

A lot of rotation things and openers are on a fight by fight basis. There are standard openers and I myself usually stick to just one (so I dont need to mess with my muscle memory) but people in the comments are probably always going to complain that you aren't using the most optimal opener for the fight

[@TarossBlackburn]

As you've discovered, SE likes to remove all extra markers and indications for mechanics that already happen in the normal version for the EX version. New mechanics get a telegraph, existing mechanics do not. It's part of the step up in difficuilty where you're expected to mentally track the things you've already learned while also paying attention to the marks for the new. As for the tethers. Remember as this is the same for thorn lines, chains, and all other kinds of methods that two people are bound together in this manner: The tether breaks only after a set distance traveled away from eachother AFTER it appears. So the farther away from eachother you are before it solidifies, the less room you have to move to actually break it. Stay as close to your partner as possible that the arena allows and then move apart to break. Start at opposite ends and die.

[@limontree476]

I can very much relate to the talk of improving through trial by fire since joined a static to do the BLU achievements. It's some of my first experiences with savage and extremes and learning what mechanics will need certain abilities ready and then planning ahead next pull has been fun

[@Breadumi]

I'm excited to see how long Kyle's eyes stay open for the Endwalker extremes. If you guys need resources to learn your job to its best, I recommend checking the balance discord first. Most jobs have nice infographics or written guides that will at the very least help you understand everything at your disposal, what to prioritize for damage/mitigation/heals, what to look for from other players (defensives and buffs on you and the boss), and things like that. When it comes to really playing optimally, that becomes very fight-specific and can lead to some cursed things (DRK in particular has a great time intentionally killing themselves twice in a row in the newest ultimate for a dps increase). Number one thing you guys should look for is to find a "standard" opener and just practice doing that on a dummy until you have it memorized. Openers set you up for the rest of the fight. Weird downtimes change things quite a bit for a few jobs but that's for people that are farming current content, not for what you guys are doing on your way to the end. Great stuff, invest in some eyedrops (seriously Kyle's eyes will melt in the next extreme I think you'll want to challenge)

[@reyennarhel2505]

I cannot WAIT for yall to do the ex for the patch trial of SHB. Its SO good Watching yall do the martyr phase killed me a little inside lol - as a phys ranged main I'm contractually obligated to be the martyr during that part, and that mechanic was my "big moment" during that fight. Loved the video! Re: Other Ex's - Suzaku is really fun. Susano is good but since its the first trial of the expac it's going to feel similar to titania or innocence Also, super secret spoiler for the Hades EX: there's a cheat spot where everyone stands and with normal AOE heals, you can kill him without having to move at all. (The standard Party Finder markers include a marker for the cheat spot). The joke is that, as a BLM main, Yoshi P needed a place to stand in his leylines during that part lol.

[@seekittycat]

Keeping my fingers crossed to when you guys get into Savages. I pugged my Omega Savages and can't wait for you guys to try. There are so many creators I follow that I know will never try but maybe maybe 🤞. I know y'all said you gonna do guides for savage but for some of these you might want to look up "part one" only cause the surprise is pretty special c:.

[@Drew88317]

The balance discord is often the most up to date and accurate for rotation generalities after about 2 weeks of an expansion launch. Any major changes might take some time to get theory crafted as well. I say general because sometimes a specific fight may have a better alignment by doing something non standard but that's something you can start to notice your self over time

[@sinh8583]

Regarding the SAM opener/rotation, from what I can tell from Wesk's, is that he is preparing people for the lvl 90 opener. If you look at the traits/upgrades SAM will get in EW from the "Actions & Traits" tab in-game, you can see two core abilities acquire charges. Those being Meikyo and Tsubame. So you want to get these charges rolling asap. This is most likely why Wesk structured his lvl 80 SAM opener as such. If you were to grab the lvl 90 opener either from Wesk or Balance, you can see that higanbana is used after the midares. If my memory serves me right, back in ShB, the optimal rotation was higanbana then midare.

[@dav6172]

The 5.3 patch extreme will absolutely need its own video. Great channel guys.

[@Delithara]

First Extreme's of a expansions (those that drop Accessories) tend to be on the easier side till later ones that really steal the show.

[@Mordy.]

Yes that. But in ShB, by that metric (which one drops accessories vs which one drops a weapon), the "first extreme" is the second trial of the MSQ which is what confuses people!

[@felixamari157]

Knowing EW this makes me feel even more sad cause this should be true. :(

[@Delithara]

@@Mordy. was the same with Stormblood as well. Been to long to remember off the top of my head for Heavensward if they even did that or not.

[@tjl9458]

Others have pointed out The Balance. That's where all the theorycrafters for the different jobs tend to congregate. As for Titania EX, there's several changes from the normal to EX that you didn't mention. The tether mechanic that appears before adds is one of them. It does a large lightning AoE that gives a debuff that adds to the damage the next hit. For anything but a tank, the second hit will kill you. So, there's two basic ways of handling that. One is to have tank take multiple and switch off with other players, the other is to have players take one each. Back in ShB, there was a way for a DRK to take all the tethers (and it was the only tank who could). Also, in addition to the vine tethers, there's the giant vines that come from the ground in that phase. The cut off half the arena on each side reducing the area you have to work with. That was handled by having the tanks and healers on one side and the DPS on the other side, right next to the knockback circle. The knockback would naturally break the vine tethers and you could ignore the vines coming from the ground.

[@TwystedTyger]

Great video, always love hearing your reflections. The motivation to improve after encountering harder content rings very true. I'm not sure I've seen you acknowledge it, a lot of the arenas in these fights have lines and graphics drawn on them that help show where certain mechanics blow up. For example, that "chandelier" phase explosion is bigger than the marker, but the explosion is exactly the size of the circular lines on the arena floor. Helps remove some ambiguity.

[@Nalehw]

Oh man, the tragedy at 13:15 of seeing the SAM gap-close while dead to snapshotting...

[@CrashB111]

The biggest change that happens in Ex over Normal, is removing telegraphs like the arrows on the floor. In Ex you are expected to look at the boss / the arena, to deduce what a particular cast bar or animation means.

[@minaeru]

I recommend doing a night of ARR Extremes World Tour of Ifrit > Titan > Garuda > Leviathan > Shiva before picking up the next Eden raid set. I'm pretty confident you could knock each one out in less than an hour with your current experience and they each bring something fun to the table.

[@seekittycat]

Ramuh too :D

[@Voiced]

There is kind of an In-Game DPS/Gear Check meter. Check out something called Stone, Sky, Sea! It's a dummy that gives you like 5 minutes while doing mechanics, and if you can clear it you have the rotation and gear to clear the actual trial. Check it out!

[@russellgill5376]

This ❤

[@sleepysera]

Especially for healers (and to some degree for tanks) it's basically useless though, since for those what matters is how they plan out their healing and mitigation. I can stand there for 3 minutes and spam my singular DPS spell as a healer until the dummy drops down, but that tells me absolutely nothing about the abilities I'll have to use in the actual fight, since the dummy doesn't hit back or anything.

[@Snakester789]

26:58 I haven't had the chance to catch up on the Hades VoD, but did you ever work out that the aoe of the falling circles is actually hinted by the overlapping circles on the arena itself? If not then i recommend adding "study the arena" to your "checking boss debuffs" for things to keep an eye on going forwards :P

[@WineRedEchos]

so one really fun thing about the first 2 ex trials in any given expansion. titania/innocence the example here. is one boss is mechanical, titania is just "do mechanic, now the next one, now the next one" it's all seeing tells and knowing your part in the dance. whereas innocence is a test of pure situational awareness. aside from the stack laser thing, nothing you really do in innocence requires interacting with other people, it's almost all just dodge. figure out where you can stand, figure out where you can run through things, how you can bait stuff.

[@Aleksander9813]

ARR extremes are pretty dope, specifically Titan and Ramuh. Unpopular opinion but I think the chaos of King Mog EX and deducing all of the moogle strategies and combos is very, very fun.

[@aetral8864]

Good rule of thumb in fights is to always look at the floor design, it usually always tells the radius of certain attacks in the fight.

[@kiriuxeosa8716]

In 2.0 the wall the community had to endure was titan hard mode. It was the most present problem for all of us, yeah there was coils but couls wasn't something widely pursued while titan was something that was necessary and what I love most about those moments is how they were the starting point for the community's training montage. With every new fight came a new mechanic a new plateu a new level that we all needed to reach in order to surpass ourselves and all the fights and the extremes show how weve all been trained to overcome every challenge and its so fun to realize the community's player growth

[@renemuller7383]

Yea its also intersting to see how step for step mechanics, that used to be savage/extreme-mechanics are being introduced into normal dungeon/raid-content as well.

[@Foxhound794]

Was a blast doing Innocence Ex with you, even if we got through it quick. 😂 The GG extremes group is currently on Sephirot, which is "fun" if you like lots of tank duties and healing tons of damage . Also there's always the good king Mog if you'd like a quick burst of chaos. And second coil turn 4 for Nael goodness

[@seekittycat]

Omg they should do proper Coils :D

[@linnmarie3146]

Innocence was my first extreme and it is definitely the easiest one I’ve ever done, but it gave me the confidence to try more, so from that viewpoint I think it’s okay. You mentioned a few times that your previous experience taught you how to handle things - FF14 definitely rewards people who do older content (for the most part) by carrying over common markers. Some of the older stuff (ARR, early HW) weren’t as consistent (hello ARR tether mechanics) but Stb, ShB and EW are all very good at keeping them standard. I’m SO glad you did Hades Extreme. It’s one of my favorite fights in the game. While I still enjoy the normal version, in my heart the Extreme version is actually what happened in the story. I’m really hoping we get an MSQ ShB focused Ultimate some day; the last few have taken interesting twists with some narrative stuff and I’d love to see what they do with Hades. Icyveins does have some FF14 stuff actually! A lot of people have mentioned the Balance discord, but it’s also a website if you don’t want to go into the discord itself. I reference it a lot when melding my materia. Re: Healing amount: if I recall correctly Shadowbringers was when they wanted to start focusing more on making healers HEAL, so that difference you’re feeling in damage might very well be related to that. A word on the “right way” thing…there are definitely fights where there is only one way to resolve things, but that isn’t always the case. I remember seeing Echo come up with very different strats than what was generally done with fights. And I think that’s cool. :D A group I ran with used to do the fights blind and sometimes we came up with setups that were different than Party finder but still worked pretty well.

[@HeartySnicker]

Titan EX from back in ARR is actually probably my favorite EX that you guys currently have access to, big recommend. I figure that even though they made raises work on fallen off players it should still be a banger. Other than that the upcoming ShB trial series is definitely full of great fights on EX.

[@ShakalDraconis]

I did all of the Shadowbringers extremes unsynced during 6.0. Hades' Elegy was super fun that way as even though the unsynced gave us a DPS and health advantage, you still had to do the dance right. And I think there's another ShB trial who's extreme is going to challenge you even harder, looking forward to it!

[@Tazrael]

Fishing, Mahjong, and Triple Triad are the true endgame raids. But no for real, continuing to love all of your analysis and critiques. I keep talking you up to my friends and your major charm above other streamers is just the fact you two are constantly talking to each other with differing views as well as similar ones.

[@kirsti4899]

My favorite story about extremes is when my FC and I did some Hades EX dragon farming. It was my first time doing extremes at-level and they carried me hard. First time we cleared, the dragon dropped and I won it, much to the amused irritation of one of my FC mates. Out of all my mounts, I ride that dragon the most. I will always remember you and the Ancients, Hades. Remember that you once lived.

[@rebellyanmagic6409]

"MY SUFFERING IS CANON" made me laugh, ngl.

[@kekon3]

More than Lakshimi EX… I want to see Garrett and Kyle do Eden Titan Savage, or maybe E1S. Maybe it’s too soon to hype it up but I think shb had fantastic introductory savages Good video, duders!

[@Sllandre]

E1S is the best introduction to Savage imo.

[@kekon3]

@@Sllandre I definitely feel that all of the “first floor” fights of every expac are easier than Hades EX, especially of the last two expacs

[@firedrake110]

Hades' Elegy is, imo, the absolute peak of extremes. That shit is incredible, and I'm so glad you got to it. Now we wait for the final EX of the expansion...

[@maidmaia]

I honestly didn't know how to properly play my main two jobs (RDM and WHM) until I dipped my toe into savage, as well as a very helpful random player I encountered in a roulette who took me under their wing and explained how certain abilities worked and when to use them. So you're not the only ones! You both are doing great and it's great to watch you both learn and improve over time. Congrats on the clears!

[@clumsyturtle8544]

I too struggled with the boss turning all the time playing a tank but a pro tip is to always keep the boss facing north and in the center of the arena because majority of the time when the boss cast a spell they jump to the middle and face north. In that titania example you showed you had the boss facing south and it turning around to face north to cast. Having the boss in the center and facing north means it wont really move unless you need to for a mechanic and even then they normally stay still during a mechanic, sounds simple but doing that helped me SOOO MUCH and stopped the melee dps from losing their mind trying to get positional's.

[@JelisW]

Garrett generally does do that, but in Titania, the boss will often get dragged off center just naturally when the tank moves to dodge the creeping vine mechanic. They usually dodge north, resulting in Titania ending at the north edge of the arena (unfortunately Titania is one of the "sticky" bosses, and does _not_ stay still for that mech). Tanks new to the fight then often feel the urge to re-center the boss immediately, which naturally involves running back southwards for a bit. This is a mistake, because Titania follows up that particular mech with a tankbuster cleave, and so a tank that is currently in the process of trying to recenter the boss will end up cleaving the entire party. Garrett did that in the normal and wiped the party, and by the sounds of it, he did that in the extreme too. He's far from the first to do that, and will not be the last; there is a reason whenever I get dropped into the normal that I take myself off to the side at that point if I'm not the one tanking myself. For that particular moment shown in the vid, they're at a mech where titania sends out a tether, and that tether is designed to be passed through all the members of the party, with each member getting hit once with a rather large point blank cleave before passing it off. The standard strat was to simply have a tank invuln and keep the tether for however many hits they could before the invuln fell off and then pass it off to someone else to take, but as you can see in the vid, they resolved it the intended way. Garrett is south at that point either because he'd just finished recentering the boss, or because he was prepositioning himself out of the way of the outgoing tether (that second one looks more likely, given the strat they seem to be doing) and because Titania will proceed to turn to face whoever has the tether to hit them anyway, a bit of swinging at that point won't matter

[@Matots]

The reason why you hear that about weskalber videos isnt because its flat out "wrong", its because most of the time, videos on youtube get outdated, and the balance (the discord) is usually the go to for end game optimization (its basically your icy veins), which can be updated every day. Case and point, Dark knight has had some changes in 6.1 that both altered the effect of Blood weapon (from 10s duration to 15s duration and 5 stacks, a qol change) and also the level with which you gain Stawart Soul (your aoe n.2 button). So, were his video to be made prior to that change (his current one isn't, but the one prior was, and it was up for a while iirc), it would give you wrong advice. This is the case with every video from every creator in most major patches, since something somewhere always changes (plus yknow, its easy to click on the big 200k view shb 2year old guide videos because thats what youtube recommend over the new and updated stuff). So, generally, youtube videos are viewed more as a generic "how to play X class" guides rather than anything, because some things do persist over time, like how to generically use mitigation on a dungeon. Wesk alber is way more than fine to get a baseline of what you should be doing in any one class, and i say that as one of the people that is a small part on the balance team, and that actively recommends their videos for anyone that is leveling or starting out. There is no need to play perfectly, when the person needs to work on maintaining their 123 at high uptimes. They also usually take the opener from the balance itself and put it into their videos (which is good since math is math), but its only a matter of time until something comes up, and a minor change happens that makes the old opener a smidge worse, the discord gets the update, but the videos don't. As for the "hey, i get a lot of different info about how xyz works", thats just because the average player doesnt really interact with endgame stuff, so feelycraft is a thing in the casual audience. I strongly recommend you, even if you have to make an alt account (or make a temporary one on your browser), go to the balance, and ask questions there, specially healing ones. There is a very good reason why Healers get a bad rep in this game, and misinformation is one of them. The odds of someone treating you, a new player, with the expectation of perfect play, while they should be telling you to work on your ABC (always be casting) first, are really high

[@TheoVorster]

The Extremes for Ravana and Bismarck will eventually need to be done in order to unlock the Void Quests side story. So those should probably be knocked out before starting Endwalker.

[@FreiCasull]

It's been a while but I think that some of the mechanics in Shadowbringers are built around a 90 second cool down which some tank abilities worked under back then. This changed at somepoint so you might be feeling the oddity of that change now after most stuff was aligned to 60 and 120 seconds.

[@VashimuXIV]

I respect the fact you guys still toughed out the extreme trials completely blind. And they only get better in my opinion, especially Endwalker. Hades is still one I need to finish. Cheers Kyle, cheers Garret.

[@LionLostInTime]

Innocence was so easy in shadowbringers that i used that fight to learn new classes lol, also fun to see you guys had to deal with your first exa-flares lol (moving aoe's from left to right)

[@Zeet1]

This is the natural trend the Devs want for new players. Do the story, do the trials, be all “that’s cool! Let’s try the extreme” and then start realizing there’s things to improve. They don’t have in-game guides cause they rely on the community to solve and work together.

[@east3rcat]

I did an EW extreme and realized I don’t have the headspace for mechanics A friend of mine progressed through the same extreme with me and she’s finished the current savage series. She’s a total bad ass

[@melvinanndy]

Small tip - If the extreme trial is a "Minstrel's Ballard", expect the fight to be at least 50% completely different compared to the normal version. Might even have an extra phase or two. Shadowbringers extremes are up till now still my fav and very enjoyable. I was never bored while grinding for my mecha dragon

[@lukeretallack54]

The best extremes are yet to come!

[@sonicroze]

As a Mentor, I have gotten precious few Extremes in my Mentor Roulette. Everyone past HW is pretty much like "Yeah, nooooo" and uses Party Finder to clear extremes. Or just waits til they are so OP it doesn't matter. With that said, you can clear both Ravana and Susanoo in one stream no problem. You could probably do a "Clean up EX" stream honestly. The only one I think would be time consuming (not necessarily challenging so much) is Bismark EX. That said, Susanoo and Ravana are still fun fights and I enjoy the fact they are two of the only later EXes I've seen in my roulettes. If you are not blind and have knowledge of the fight it is easy to teach. Actually, Shiva EX gave me fits, but I was also doing that one in an all BLU party. So, some of it may be fun if you ever pick up the BLU job :)

[@roseo6057]

Midnight Missionary sounds like a raunchy romance novel, ngl.

[@SarahExpereinceRequiem]

The biggest problem with AST is that it has too many buttons - like literally too many buttons. It's been like a year since I touched it but iirc it has 5 buttons where a different game design would have the same number of buttons condensed to either 3 or 2, if they have multifunctional buttons that change contextually like some jobs do.

[@untrustingstatue]

One thing you’ll need to understand in higher level fights is that MECHANICS WILL CHOOSE ROLES. When you find yourself stuck at a mechanic, the first question you ask is: which role was affected in the replay? Dps? Healers? Tanks? Many higher end mechanics become role focused which means you have to make your little groups position to solve the mechanic. Very rarely will it be randomly chosen as mechanics will choose pairings (tanks healers, tanks dps, or just one role) There are two questions: Which role was hit? How close was I when I got targeted? 95% of mechanics roll that way until you get to savage.

[@Vaeltis]

How I judged the first 3 SHB extremes is that; Titania tests your abilities to work as a team. While Innocense tests your skills as an individual. And then Hades is a grand finale

[@dahZeee]

If you guys haven't heard, every 4th, 8th, and final boss of the raids, from Stormblood and up, are very "transformative" fights on savage, in comparison to their normal modes. So there's plenty of more fun 8man hard mode stuff that contains things you haven't seen yet in normal mode! Always a great time watching these videos, excited to see you do more side content!

[@olmfest3507]

The upcoming Extreme Trials in Shadowbringers are all challenging and great experiences. When you have the opportunity (maybe in between expansions or after completing MSQ); I highly recommend taking on the Binding Coils of Bahamut 8-person Raids - some of the regular versions of the Raids are very challenging and even compete in difficulty with some of the Extremes.

[@trinioler]

You should definitely try all of the extremes. In terms of difficulty, I'd say you've done the three most difficult ones so far. In terms of Frustration, I'd rank them from Most to Least as (for ARR): Ramuh Ex Leviathan Ex Titan Ex Garuda Ex Ifrit Ex Ultima Weapon (haven't done synced) I have not done most other extremes synced, other than one in ShB that technically doesn't have a normal trial (you haven't done it yet). That one may prove frustrating but is pretty well telegraphed and consistent. In terms of Extremes that even unsynced are a PitA from most to less but still a PITA: Bismarck (looong scripted stuff) The last trial in the optional trial series in ShB The second to last trial in the optional trial series in ShB

[@thatguy-dh1qh]

"My suffering is Canon." True words have never been spoken. High end content may be minstrel fanfic, but the WoL still suffers...

[@AoiKaze2000]

In our static, we have a DPS that had to have the mechanics beat it out of them NOT to stand with the tanks... and sometimes they still don't get it. We decided to use this impulse constructively and have started talking them into becoming an off tank next tier.

[@Siluriiformes]

Tsukiyomi was the first extreme i ever did so it holds a special place in my heart. Glad you guys had fun!

[@adamzielinski5213]

I haven't done many of the Extremes post Heavensward yet (with a few notable exceptions, e.g.: -redacted- Ex in Endwalker, that one was brutal, but a ton of fun), but I did grind Leviathan and Shiva Ex a LOT trying to get the rapiers from those primals before the loot changes (RNG Savage) and I love those fights. Even more than the fun of the mechanics, having been a WoW refugee myself, I loved the community feeling of queueing for those fights in DF and having people excited to teach newer players the mechanics; and further, being the person excited to teach newer players the mechanics once I had learned them myself. I had very few groups in those days that couldn't clear the Ex in the first lockout. It was so cool watching group after group with players running the EX for the first time learning and improving throughout the fight. I bet it would be even more fun to do MINE, maybe I'll have to find a group to try that with someday.

[@apollinarian]

I fully recommend the SB trial series extremes (and ShB trial series extremes, when you unlock all those). Most are very well designed and differ significantly from their normal versions.

[@daffupanda2294]

I think you guys may enjoy the "Sorrow of Werlyt" series in EX mode, though I guess that's Shadowbringers patch content!

[@OseronPhaer]

Midnight...missionary.... I am now passingly intrigued by this version of Dark Knight.

[@Ashtarte3D]

Wait, are you guys telling me you haven't done Susano EX because he wasn't a "major big bad?" The best goddam trial in the game? GO. GO NOW. DO IT. Also Hades EX is a banger and I loved getting my mount out of it. Took all 50 runs to do it as I never won the roll.

[@Catzillator]

At one point you say. "I don't have answer" I sang "Thou must live die and knowwwwww"

[@sylvie_lynn]

Not blinking for 2 minutes in a stressful ff14 encounter is so fucking real. If you ever finish a new savage fight and wonder to yourself “why the hell do I have a headache?” It’s probably cause you can count the number of times you have blinked in the last lockout on one hand 😂

[@TheLordMagmar]

The Minstrel knows because you tell him about the Ascians in general, also whilst the Extremes aren't "canon" they are intended to showcase theoretical possibilities.

[@Ryotsu2112]

Ah, a reference to the jumping water fountains at Epcot. My first memory of them was back in 1992 when the superior Journey into Imagination was still there.