The F-5G / F-20 Tigershark; Northrop’s Bane

[@devildog3246]

My father was a Computer Analyst Specialist for the Northrop on the F-20 project in Hawthorn, Ca.. He helped to create the fly by wire and routing the avionics for it. I remember being about 13 or 14 and seeing them sitting outside of a hanger getting preflight checks before they taxied and took off. To this day one of the coolest things I had ever seen.

[@DesertPunks]

You're a lucky man

[@OhNoNotAgain42]

We must be about the same age. I have the same memory with my dad who worked there at Hawthorne as well. We saw them fly out in Palmdale. I think that’s where you must have seen them as well. I don’t think the Hawthorne facility was directly connected to any runways.

[@smussiejollett3193]

So sick dude

[@RameenFallschirmjager]

You must be very proud of your father.

[@taylorc2542]

FBW was new back then, and they surprisingly got a lot right considering how hard it is.

[@Shadx27]

The funny thing is, several of the nations that got the F-5 never got F-16's and really could have used the F-20s.

[@m.salleh5919]

Exactly. That's what I thought. Malaysia never thought it was alright to later buy Russian, read Mig29s. Their pilots and engineers disliked the smokey engines and heavy maintenance required. They were also not entirely happy with subsequent F18 and SU30 buys as these were expensive buys. The F20s would have been heavensent to cash strapped air forces.

[@fulcrum2168]

@@m.salleh5919 Well, they could buy those South Korean jet trainers like Philippines did

[@m.salleh5919]

@@fulcrum2168 To my mind, the Korean FA50s are just supersonic LIFT fighter- trainers. That makes the Pak JF17 a bit better than them

[@DrSmallarms]

As a good example, Canada went from F-5a’s to F-18s

[@Shadx27]

@@DrSmallarms I was thinking more along the lines of Mexico, Philippines, and a few others.

[@duaneronan8199]

I worked on this very program for a year, until just before it was canceled. Very well done video. An interesting sidebar you didn't mention was the B-2 was in the design process at the same time. Engineers, like myself, were hired into the F-20 program, like a holding pen. We were vetted while working working on the F20, and those that passed muster were moved over to the B2. I didn't make it; I had changed address too many times. That shows the level of secrecy on the B2 program.

[@EdNashsMilitaryMatters]

I thought about mentioning B2, but the video ran too long as it was.

[@Ricky40369]

Did you work in the PDC or the Tech Center? Your name is vaguely familiar.

[@slappy8941]

The criteria they use for determining security clearances are so random and arbitrary.

[@MrWasurfer86]

Ain’t that the truth. You have too much debt so we’re pulling your clearance until it’s resolved. No clearance means no work so you accrue more debt. I see a red flag with someone having a lot of debt and suddenly paying it all off. Pull their clearance until it’s investigated.

[@JW20236]

@@MrWasurfer86 If you have debt, it could be assumed that you would be more willing to do things for money than those without debt...like sell design plans to the Russians etc.

[@themajesticmagnificent8561]

I’m a big F-5 fan and the F-20 Tigershark looked so cool.Shame it never went into full production.

[@vanstry]

Blame congress. They paid countries to buy F-16's - so they were getting them cheaper than they could have bought the F-20

[@Joshua_N-A]

Love the Northrop designs. The Cobra was its ultimate evolution.

[@fixedguitar47]

It’s a very popular model. Ask anyone at a hobby shop.

[@blingbling574]

The F-20 spirit lives on in the Grippen.

[@valenrn8657]

@@blingbling574 FA-50 (mini-F-16) and T-7 (mini-F-18) also has GE-404 engines.

[@carfvallrightsreservedwith6649]

I was with the AGRESSORS (crewchief) at Nellis AFB from 1980-83. We actually received literature and brochures on the F20. It was to be the new plane for the squadron. (57AGS / 64th AMU). When I see photos of #57 w/ Michael Christiansen ( my trainer out of FTD) stenciled on the canopy I trip down memory lane. I also had an unbeknownst appearance in the movie RED FLAG. After launching out an aircraft one of the film crew walked up to me and told me my launch was going to be in the movie. (They had been filming launches from the THUNDERBIRDS' hangar.) Hadn't thought about those days in a very long time........

[@atomicorang]

I missed you by a few years…Assigned Nellis T/A 86-89. Originally inbound to A-10 phase dock.

[@ztunelover]

Northrop Grumman is literally the what if brand. I'm shocked they accepted the B2 spirit, The YF23 was an epic piece of kit.

[@davidrussell8783]

It was a better aircraft than the F-22 in so many ways. Ironic that the USAF wants rid of the F-22.

[@psychohist]

@@davidrussell8783 Maybe the YF23 should have been developed into a F24 for the Navy the way the YF17 was developed into the F18.

[@davidrussell8783]

@@psychohist I don't know that either could be suitable by design for carrier duty. And the F-35 "joint" stealth fighter was coming anyway. But the F-23 may not yet be dead. Rumor is that Northrop Grumman has been given a green light to continue its development with the Japanese ASDF.

[@johnosbourn4312]

Yes, but it proved to be too radical, and I think the flyaway cost, along with the cost of maintaining the aircraft throughout its projected lifetime meant that it lost to the YF-22 in the ATF competition. Also, in regards to maximum speed, the YF-22 demonstrated a higher speed of Mach-2.0, while the YF-23's max speed was Mach-1.80

[@piotrd.4850]

@@psychohist It was Navy that casted vote for F-22 - even though formally withdrawn at the time from ATF programme, it felt F-22 will be easier to navalize. Also everything boils down to fact, that Lockheed Martin asked brass "ok, here are reqs....now what do you REALLY want" - and they responded "Super F-15". LM had more aggresive test flight schedule, was felt as less risky design overall and in retrospective.... while all YF-23 issues could have been worked out, eventually (more stealthy canopy, lack of contrails on wingtips ) it would still make sense only with GE engines; F-22 still has no competitor and carries more missiles than YF-23 could.

[@docnele]

Trivia: Born in USA, chief designer of N-156 (T-38/F-5) was Velko Gasic of Yugoslav origin (father from what is now state of Bosnia&Herzegovina). He worked on F-5 development up to F-20, also on YF-17 and Senior Ice (Northrop B-2 Spirit).

[@238839]

Watched the F-20 go down in May of 1985 Goose Bay, Labrador. The whole community was in disbelief and shock. But what an jet it was...we were all left in awe of its performance...seriously, the base would practically stop and watch this amazing aircraft tear up the skies.

[@sadwingsraging3044]

Still probably the most 'correct' looking fighter ever built. It just _looks_ right.

[@svenschwingel8632]

Bad visibility to the rear is the only drawback. The Tigershark's problem was that the Viper did everything better.

[@TurboMountTV]

@@svenschwingel8632 And at at lot more cost.

[@svenschwingel8632]

@@TurboMountTV which nobody in the government cared about since the taxpayer had to pay it anyway 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@littlerougue]

came here to say the same thing just a good looking plane not that the teen planes didn't look good but the F5/20 just looks right.

[@gone547]

It looks like it's doing 1,000,000 mph, even when stopped. If looks could kill.

[@islandhopperstuart]

I saw Northrop's test pilot Darrell Cornell fly the F20 at Farnborough in 1984. It was truly spectacular and was awarded "Best Display in Show" by SBAC. Tragically Cornell died one month later whilst demonstrating the F20 to the Korean Airforce, G-LOC being judged to be the cause.

[@josephroberts6865]

Interesting comment that brought back a memory. I was in Korea when Mr. Cornell perished in the F-20 at Suwon Airbase, a Korean base. The crash occurred just a few hundred yards west of the runway. I know it crashed inverted and I believe the video segment showing the F-20 descending inverted with virtually no airspeed was the Suwon accident. I was serving in the Army as a CH-47 instructor and was assigned to relocate the remains of the jet consisting of fuselage aft of the cockpit, wings, and fuselage aft the wings but forward of the tail. It was amazingly pretty much intact. I picked it up on slings and drogue externally with the Chinook and flew it to Osan Airbase at airspeeds between 30-40 knots. It was not a stable load in it’s inverted condition. I sat it down in one of the keyhole parking areas and returned to Camp Humphreys, Korea. The reason it was relocated to Osan, a USAF base, is so that it could be disassembled and loaded out on a C-5 or C-141 cargo plane for return to Northrop.

[@mikem.s.1183]

Great comment. 👌 It must have been awfully sad to know that something bad had happened to pilot Cornel. Respect for your jobs, gents.

[@johndavey72]

Another great show Ed. Always thought the F5 was a pugnacious little fighter . Looks like Northrop got kicked in the nuts to the tune of $1billion + ! Ouch ! Thanks Ed.

[@DonMeaker]

And they went back and did it again with the F-23, and it happened again.

[@jamesunger6892]

That's why they protected themselves on the B-2! #NeverAgain!

[@dalestephan6777]

Northrop got even building the B2 at 2 billion a pop..

[@DonMeaker]

@@dalestephan6777 Since fewer than 75 were built, Northrop-Grumman was awarded 1.5 billion dollars for their tooling. They spend about 34 billion on research and tooling, and each plan cost about 600 million to build, roughly the same as the Boeing 747, but the research and tooling cost had to be spread over only 21 aircraft. That is why it was so expensive. The same research and tooling was designed for building the 134 aircraft that the Air Force said they wanted. Lockheed attempted to buy NorthropGrumman, but was prevented by DoD, for anti-trust reasons. No other companies had as good a handle on Stealth, even today.

[@raz562]

Small correction, the F-5A and F-5B were named Freedom Fighter. The Tiger was in fact the F-11. The F-5E was named after the squadron that flew F-5A’s in Vietnam “Skoshi Tigers”, since Tiger was already used the next number in the line was “II” hence “Tiger II”

[@EdNashsMilitaryMatters]

Indeed. My bad

[@raz562]

@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters Still a very good video, featuring one of my favorite aircraft. Thank you

[@Joshua_N-A]

@@raz562 Germany, Canada and Japan did have an interest in the F11-1F Super Tiger but Lockheed happened.

[@Joshua_N-A]

The F-5 then evolved into the Cobra then Cobra become the Hornet. Northrop's designs are a beauty.

[@valenrn8657]

@@Joshua_N-A Hornet has further two derivatives with F/A-18E Super Hornet and T-7 Red Hawk.

[@willarity6927]

From the perspective of maintenance, it was great working on something that was made to be worked on. You didn't need platforms for every other chore and the engine swapped out fairly fast. It was the plane I wanted to bring home from work, it was just neat.

[@jb6027]

As a lifetime military aircraft geek, I just discovered Ed Nash's channel yesterday. I have to say that this is absolutely fabulous! You won't consistently find this type of content anywhere else. Well done, Mr. Nash!

[@blackdeath4eternity]

yeah, his channel is a little goldmine.

[@BadRussian77]

Easy to maintain and cheap is not what the Pentagon wants. Always loved this beautiful plane.

[@ronaldkonkoma4356]

Fighter Mafia

[@williamplatt6859]

When I worked for Northrop in in the 1980s I had an opportunity to fly from Hawthorne to Edwards AFB in a small, twin engine company plane. My pilot was Darrell Cornell, Northrop's chief F-20 test pilot. Less than 6 months later he was killed in the Korea crash.

[@Pincer88]

I felt really sorry for Northrop at the time and I think that in more than one aspect the JAS-39 C/D/E/F Gripen and Korean T/F-50 Golden Eagle show, what potential that truly lightweight fighter had. Let's comfort ourselves with the thought that the Swedes and South Koreans took its concept a few steps further and that the F-5/F-20 heritage lives on in a way in these designs.

[@skaldlouiscyphre2453]

I agree in some ways, I've always been an F-5 fanboi. That said, I think that platform had basically reached the end of it's life, which is why all of the planes carrying on it's legacy are based on new platforms. Same thing happened with the JF-17, it started off as the ultimate MiG 21 but eventually became an entirely new aircraft. The F-17 Cobra represents Northrop's more focused attempt at building a proper successor, but the requirements resulted in a bigger plane than the F-5 series. In theory Northrop could have developed a smaller, lighter, single-engine Cobra, but that's not where the money was to be made so they filled that job with a hot-rodded F-5. Since I like light fighters I might sketch up a lighter, single engine Cobra.

[@Blackbirdz2000]

F20's legacy today lives on in the shape of Jf17 thunders. actually it really is a modernized F20, its the same design essentially with little tweaks here n there to as part of its modernization.

[@thesovietvorona1007]

@@Blackbirdz2000 I still like my new design better. As there’s no way this aircraft was near its potential. At least not now, with the tech we have now we could make the F-5 a viable option for 4.5 Gen replacements. Maybe even 5th Gen if you can make it stealthy. My design wasn’t but already would be a better option than the current version of the F-16

[@fjeezy1305]

The F/A-18 is also a distant relative of the F-5 family.

[@Pincer88]

@@fjeezy1305 True. But not as light as the other single engine ones. Still you can tell the relation by the Hornet's long nose with the gun mounted in front of the cockpit.

[@550r]

At least Shin was able to put it to good use in Area 88 :)

[@Tigershark_3082]

Yep, indeed he was. Still my favorite anime to this day...

[@alexmcaruthur6966]

@@Tigershark_3082 but he shot down 20 mig-21s in his F-8 Crusader in one dogfight that was insane

[@Tigershark_3082]

@@alexmcaruthur6966 Indeed. Then again, most of those Mig-21 pilots were inexperienced

[@Rick1984FL]

Is this a un squadron reference?

[@rutilantracer9116]

@@Rick1984FL ye

[@SithLord2066]

If Soviets copied the F-20 it would've been called Mig 28

[@kingdomofvinland8827]

I would like to see a tigershark with a mig-28 paint job

[@Barabel22]

Fighters were all odd numbers, bombers even numbers, even for a movie, this was well known in in 80s for people into military aviation, and just makes the scene in top gun kind of ridiculous. EDIT: I’m talking about Soviet/Russian aircraft, which is why the MiG-28 designation does not make sense.

[@gregfuchs8343]

They did copy it and called it the JF-17

[@shaider1982]

They did flight test the F5's captured in Vietnam.

[@guaporeturns9472]

Are you REALLY a Sith lord? Be honest

[@blueturtle06]

I was 15 years old in 1989 when I was reading a Jane's Military vehicle book, when I came across this beauty. Ever since I have loved the look and capabilities of this little fighter, too bad it did not get to shine as the others. I wonder what it would be like now if we kept up with updating it and finally mass produced for sale.

[@davidmehrhoff8271]

Strange idea here we are looking for a new close air support aircraft we also retiring our trainer which is basically at F5 as a trainer

[@danielc2701]

It wouldn't have sold. People are nostalgic about this aircraft and for good reasons, it was a solid workhorse but there were some limitations. It was too light. But light is good right? Faster and more agile? Not really. Equipment was also getting heavier and when it comes to percentages, a heavier fighter has an advantage. Why? Because an increase in the same weight is a smaller percentage increase of a heavier fighter, so the F-5 lost out when it comes to new equipment. Engines were getting bigger and more powerful too so ironically a heavier fighter could and often did match the performance of the F-5 with the ability to carry more as a bonus. In the end, what killed the F-5 was not politics like people claim but the fact that technology started to go beyond what the F-5 could do. Hell, remember that the F-5 engines were recycled engines from the Quail decoy, there was a limit as to what they could do.

[@thesovietvorona1007]

I mean I can show you. I’ve worked on my own modernization of the F-5G. Naturally I placed in the F-22’s engine minus the thrust vectoring as it doesn’t need it.

[@thesovietvorona1007]

@@davidmehrhoff8271 we replaced that already.

[@watdeneuk]

What an awesome and proper video. Your channel is a gem, keep it up man.

[@peterboy209]

I'd love to see an up to date F-20 + YF-23 wingbody planform . Both were breathtaking Northrop designs, 👍

[@No_hazmats]

This is a great video. But it downplays the intrinsic performance differences between the F-20 and the F-16A/B. The F-16 has more hard points and carries nearly double the weapons load. The F-20 has the same wing size as the F-5. While both the F-16's and the F-20's turning performance degrades with a heavy weapons load, the F-20 performance degrades much more severely. It was a total pig with any load at all. The other big difference was that the tiny airframe of the F-20 could not hold as much internal electronics, and the radome (and therefore the size of the radar antenna) is much smaller than the F-16. Although the APG-67 radar in the F-20 was capable, the physics of the tiny antenna placed a limit on its performance.

[@almightyIrie]

Pretty sure every single one of my military aviation nerd friends is in love with the Tigershark, and so am I.. Wish it became a proper service aircraft back then and a DCS module now..

[@thesovietvorona1007]

Shocked it hasn’t considered all the other mods that are out. And they easily can use the F-5E base model as a good place to start.

[@Tigershark_3082]

There have been WIP mods for the Tigershark that have popped up, but none succeeded. Oddly like the Tigershark

[@HanceWu]

Many thanks to you for doing this great video. As a Taiwanese, I have mixed feelings about whole story. To against China's air force, we produced and operated 300+ F-5E/Fs since 1970s and still keep around 40+ of them as a lead-in fighter trainer role. You can image how we rely on these wonderful tiny fighters. F-5G or F-X program gave us a opportunity to keep air superiority but politics killed it and depressed us for a very long time. So we have to try another route, IDF program came up with tone of limitation by politics (again). Some of F-5G/F-20 technologies merged into IDF program and it succeed in the end, we got the fast scrambling capability, high reliability, availability, maintainability fighter (better than F-16 block 20 and Mirage 2000-5 in our air force). We appreciate everything happened as time went on, no matter good or bad things. Thank Northrop for creating this great fighter.

[@michaelhuang8390]

F5系列我也有捐贈出我自己的零用錢，我真的很愛F5從A到G！❤❤❤

[@shahboy68]

I remember Chuck Yeager doing demos for the TigerShark

[@Tam0de]

When the YF-23 was rejected in favor of the YF-22, can't blame Northrop for thinking the government had an axe to grind against them. Well, after the cost-overruns that plagued the B-2 program, perhaps they do.

[@SouperAsH]

The B2 expense was pure retribution, for the gutfuck Northrop was handed during the development of the F20.

[@Boeing_hitsquad]

The YF-23 was basically a vaporware offering with almost all key technologies not included on the prototype as it didn't yet exist. The Airforce would have been stupid to pick it

[@danpatterson8009]

NG is building the B-21 for God-only-knows how much money, so I'd say their relations with the gov't are OK!

[@Ziggy_Moonglow]

If you learn the history of Northrop, Stuart Symington and Lockheed, you will totally understand why Northrop did not get a front line contract and was relegated to making target drones until Stuart Symington was dead, just as he had promised. He told Northrop to give the YB-49 to Consolidated, Jack said "no" and Symington promised, "You will never see a front line contract for as long as I live". Corruption and bribery are why Lockheed 'wins' every contract after losing every competition.

[@funkybassguy68]

The F-5 / F-20 platform is still the sexiest fighter jet in my books. F-15 a close second. Based on looks alone and not performance.

[@daleford8621]

Love the sleek lines on the intakes. Reminds me of a classic muscle car.

[@georgesakellaropoulos8162]

Performance in the Tigershark version isn't shabby. I imagine if stealth technology was applied, it could hold its own today. It's already small and fast.

[@thesovietvorona1007]

@@georgesakellaropoulos8162 I’ve made my own design which still isn’t super stealthy but would be more than a viable light strike aircraft. Shorter from nose length being shorter but bigger wings somewhat. But with the F-22 engine inside it’s uh, a beast?

[@varrunningtrains4112]

Thank you for the video Mr. Nash! The F-20 is one of my favorite aircraft, and your video analysis is superb!

[@yaragi]

Kudos to your ability to analyze these aircraft & military matters in general. Really.

[@weeliano]

I love this series! This is quality content! Great stuff for aviation fans!

[@falanglao01]

I love flying the F-5E in DCS, it's underpowered and has many other limitations, yet its simplicity is unmatched, great cockpit layout, very intuitive + forgiving. The Tigershark would have been a great addition.

[@danielc2701]

Heard that the cockpit was very cramped, any truth in that?

[@thesovietvorona1007]

@@danielc2701 yes, but that is the cost of being a light strike fighter. Believe it or not outside of a better visibility the A-10 is equally as cramped in my own opinion.

[@fightfish3265]

The T-38 tactical trainer was based on the F5. It has unmatched stability. The main reason NASA uses it to this day for pilot training and certification.

[@geordiedog1749]

“Well, with a name like Tiger Shark it’d better be good!!”

[@Joshua_N-A]

Northrop Grumman should make a new carrier capable fighter and call it King Shark.

[@elphi4321]

F-20, "Nice kitty."

[@Jester-Riddle]

Tiger Sharks live and thrive underwater ... so, maybe not the best name ... 😂

[@MegaNinjaMonkeyZord]

Suggestions for future videos Mirage 4000, Mirage IV Nuclear Bomber, Mirage 2000N

[@sergiom9958]

Excellent planes, i never understood why Dassault ended the mirage line production. They could had been a great combination for any european country to have a combination of EF2000 and Mirage 2000

[@Channelscruf]

Poor Carter. Couldn’t come up with a good decision if his life depended on it.

[@jackmehoff6302]

He will shine after we see four years of biden

[@Regolith86]

To be fair to Carter, he deregulated a fair number of things, including the airline, rail, and beer industries. I don't think Biden remembers what that word means.

[@springbloom5940]

Carter's problem is he was just a nice guy. President Mr Rogers.

[@largol33t1]

@@springbloom5940 He's a racist POS

[@gillewilbanks8328]

This thread is a circle jerk of nonsense.

[@FS2K4Pilot]

Navy TOPGUN instructors were really drooling over this. They’d already dubbed it the Gomershark, and they were all dreaming of the dirty tricks they were going to pull on their students.

[@Beowulf_DW]

Sad that the F-20 program ended the way it did, but I think we can take comfort in the fact that the F-5 lineage lives on to this day in the F/A-18.

[@jacobmccandles1767]

True....and yet the Legacy Hornet itself was vastly inferior to the F-16. ( I say Legacy Hornet because the Super Hornet is a similar looking but mostly unrelated development. A different bird.)

[@waynebrinker8095]

When the program finally matured enough to overcome its humble roots the, F-20's time had passed.

[@blue387]

Another excellent video, Mr. Nash

[@dundomaroje9627]

Former Yugoslavia was in game for licenced production of F20, and story was serious. Airplane was good, inexpensive, simple, with radar and avionics simple enough to be produced in Yugoslavia... but in the end it was rejected by one simple reason. It wasn't adopted by USA, not even by national guard airforce. Yugoslavia ordered MiG29(9.12) instead

[@MikeSiemens88]

2 x 20mm cannon in the nose, ufff that's a bit of firepower right there. As a young tech in the Canadian Air Force, the CF-5 was the 1st aircraft I worked on.

[@jamesunger6892]

What's amazing is how many fighter jocks get totally f'ed up by an opponent (still) with guns. You can't imagine how many, even Duke Cunningham, will have an "Oh, Shit!" memory of going head-to-head with a MIG-17 or 19 only to see those funny flashes, then esclaiming, "I forgot about those!"

[@stancunningham3711]

Old Air Reservist here: I worked with an old airframe tech who had Saber, Voodoo, Star Fighter, CF5, and F/A 18 time and he had nothing but praise for the CF5. Best in reliability and ease of maintenance out of the whole bunch.

[@drh8480]

“If it doesn’t cost 6 trillion dollars....it’s not a real fighter jet.” - Lockheed Martin

[@davidrice4165]

stupid comment is stupid

[@clockworkorange5588]

@@davidrice4165 You have to ignore stupidity, and ignorance.

[@AClark-gs5gl]

Exactly!!

[@jb6027]

Another current Lockheed motto: "Promise the moon, and deliver a half-assed product 10 years late".

[@Ziggy_Moonglow]

Lockheed has to bribe SO many politicians, generals and countries to buy their steaming piles of excrement, that it really does run up the costs.

[@reecetaylor2626]

Could you do a video om the different sidewinders and their preformance differences?

[@reecetaylor2626]

@@intag8655 fucking legend. Wiki makes it a pain in the ass to find soecific info sometimes

[@billhanna2148]

@@intag8655 dude Thank you 🙏

[@major_kukri2430]

@@intag8655 this is an excellent breakdown of the sidewinder variants.

[@anthroderick5383]

Thank you for another great video. Can I suggest an episode about the Fiat G91? Cheers!

[@F40PH-2CAT]

Hope you do the YF-17 Cobra soon.

[@Ac3ofNight]

Worked as PMO on MCAS Yuma for a year or so. got to see on a regular basis the AV-8B, F-35 (when they first arrived), and the F-5N's. got to also guard some hornets and raptors. But that little plane, its something else. I'd always do a slow roll by when the crews were getting ready for a flight. It's such an under appreciated little craft that had so much potential if not fucked raw dog by the government. There's a reason why we use it for aggressor training squadrons and it needs to be known why. Great video Ed.

[@Sshooter444]

Just had an F-5E fly over yesterday, cool!

[@Joshua_N-A]

Sad Malaysia retire them years ago.

[@Sshooter444]

@Mark Hepworth Reno, NV he landed at the airport. Probably based at Fallon NAS

[@Tigershark_3082]

I've come back to this video a year later, and it's still my favorite video on the Tigershark. Not only did you absolutely nail the story, but you did so in a non-biased and easy-to-understand/digest way. From now on, if any of my friends ever ask about the Tigershark, I'll send them this video.

[@EdNashsMilitaryMatters]

Thanks you! Got some other very interesting American "what ifs" in the pipeline as well.

[@Tigershark_3082]

@@EdNashsMilitaryMatters That's great! I really look forward to hearing about them! (sorry about the late response, by the way)

[@1joshjosh1]

Can you imagine how strong this guy's accent would be 6 pints down the tube??

[@Guilhem74]

If you drank the 6 pints, you'd find he'd have no longer an accent!! Pints are magical!!

[@1joshjosh1]

@@Guilhem74 🤣👍

[@bryannelson-airtimegrafix6954]

My best friends dad Paul Metz was a test pilot for this and the f23!!!

[@terranempire2]

Oh will we get Lavi next?

[@MrJoeblofromidaho]

Carter was a very principled and ineffective man.

[@GUNNERSIGHTZEROED]

I imagine it could probably be resurrected today with updated avionics, electronics and weaponry, as a budget platform for countries that cannot afford the expense of today's modern warplanes. I always remember seeing F5's and watching how manoverable they were.

[@bellisarius6968]

it would be a tough sell, just look how hard it is for Saab to sell the gripen and thats one very very capable and affordable multi mission fighter. and as time goes by there will be less and less use for manned fighters especially cheap ones. already close air support is being done by reaper drones, drones will very soon kill the market for light attack aircraft like the Super Tucano

[@jamesunger6892]

Northrup is too busy with the B-21 right now, along with Black projects, and who even knows about 6th-Generation.

[@LSwick-ss6nm]

The US airforce still uses this airframe as a training jet. I also believe one of the "new" Iranian jets is a modified version of this as well.

[@thesovietvorona1007]

I already did it.

[@thesovietvorona1007]

@@LSwick-ss6nm no we just got new trainers to replace em and more to come in the future to entirely replace the T-38, sadly.

[@wiryantirta]

You gotta feel it for NG. Its less about losing product of a giant program for a frontline figher (F-16) but that added salt in wound of having to fund the development of the aircraft themselves while their counterparts gets taxpayer money. Oh and then being shafted again when the USAF picked Lockheed Martin despite the YF-23 being more suitable to modern BVR combat of being stealthier and faster than the eventual F-22. And as a result now we effectively only have ONE fighter manufacturer. Boeing hasn't made anything serious and/or new for the past 2-3 decade, NG is probably sick of it, and we sure hell won't buy or at least collaborate with anything European/foreign.

[@ProjectFlashlight612]

The RNZAF should have replaced its ancient Skyhawks with the F-20.

[@mawnkey]

Despite all its flaws, I still think the F-5 is the most beautiful military airframe ever produced.

[@skaldlouiscyphre2453]

F-20 was the ultimate evolution of an older airframe. The F-17 and F/A-18 are based on another much more substantial evolution of the F-5. Personally, I'd like to have seen an even lighter (F-5 sized) single engine variant of that, even if it's only based on Northrop concept art.

[@blue387]

4:32 this is a real life picture of Ed Nash

[@EdNashsMilitaryMatters]

Lllooollll

[@gregfuchs8343]

It almost came back as competitor for the TX program.

[@Joshua_N-A]

Why'd NG pull out? Any reasons?

[@nunyabidniz2868]

@@Joshua_N-A My money is on politics... Grumman was always a Navy shop, Northrop never seemed to have particularly close ties to the AF either.

[@DonMeaker]

@@Joshua_N-A NG looked at the decision makers, and they seemed to be in bed with Lockheed, Boeing, McDonnell-Douglas.

[@ztunelover]

@@Joshua_N-A My bet is politics. NG usually produces the most capable aircraft, but the politicians are in bed with the other manufacturers.

[@Joshua_N-A]

@@ztunelover is that also the reason the Navy didn't get the ST-21 Tomcat too?

[@meanstavrakas1044]

Politics, politics, and more politics is what doomed the F20. Miniaturization of Radars & Computer Systems from 1975 through to today means that the F20 would have had a great future. These same advances are keeping the F5 flying with many air forces even today.

[@winternow2242]

Those same advances could have been applied to aircraft the us had already developed.

[@DrJon-zf2xo]

A little known aspect is that this was virtually a GE airplane. GE had the engine, engine control, heads up display engine, guns flight control and radar. Each division picked up a piece without corporate realizing how deeply they were into it. The radar was especially difficult but ultimately achieved very high reliability very early. As we understood it, it had low range which was regarded as a plus since it limited the F-20 to self defense.

[@danielescobar7618]

I make Leupold scope parts. Does that mean Leupold Scopes are virtually "Dan Escobar Scopes?" Naw, not how it works.

[@DrJon-zf2xo]

Not the same, If Luepold sold their scopes with your parts in them and they were key parts thhey could well be clled the Escobar versions. Making aftermarket repair parts is not the same as providing OEM.

[@fppro1679]

I had a buddy that flew it. Really liked the plane. He said the Air Force liked it too, except that it lacked range and carrying capacity versus an F-16 and had a different engine than The F-16 which was common with the f-15 so the Air Force only had that one engine to contend with. He also said it had 59 minutes of fuel on it, too small for what the Air Force was looking for. Other than that he said it flew great.

[@DonMeaker]

At the same time that the world was told the Air Force didn't want an F404 engine aircraft, the Air Force had F-117s that used two F404 engines.

[@Idahoguy10157]

Even Chuck Yeager couldn’t sell the F-20

[@jamesunger6892]

He did his thing, and took his fee; the government at the time was really watching retired military with contractors. Now the revolving door is off its hinges; witness your DOD Secretary!!!

[@Idahoguy10157]

@@jamesunger6892 …. It is a revolving door. Yeager was recruited for his celebrity

[@airplane1831]

Great video. You forgot to mention that for a while the F-5G/F-20 had the same wing as the previous F-5 aircraft. As the new aircraft was heavier, this meant a higher wing loading and consequently a lack of maneuverability. Some people criticized the aircraft for this. Later Northrop designed and incorporated a larger area wing for the F-20. Although it still looked the same as the old wing.

[@PozieNayan]

*Resurrect this fighter please!* They're lot of 3rd world countries who really need budget fighter jets, in friction of cost before they choose China designed JF17.

[@exploreradverturer8396]

Too late buddy. JF-17 Block-3 is in the league of JAS-39NG.

[@FlywithMagnar]

In the early 1980s, I saw the Tigershark perform at Farnborough Air Show. The flight display was very impressive.

[@johnosbourn4312]

The name of the F-5A, and B was Freedom Fighter, not Tiger. The Tiger name came from the USAF's F-5 Combat Evaluation program: " Project Skoshi Tiger", which saw the air force sponsor the modification of the basic F-5A into the F-5C, by upgrading the twin J85 engines, the weapons delivery system, and adding light weight armor, and an inflight refueling probe.

[@rtrThanos]

I always considered this one of the best fighters ever. It was tiny, making it hard to spot. It didn’t have smoke plumes from the engines like the F-4, further making it hard to spot. “1st look, 1st shot, 1st kill” is out the window at that point. And it could carry the newest weapons, allowing it to close within BVR and be a threat to anything in a dogfight.

[@chiron13]

I guess F20 was the true inspiration for the "Mig 28" in Top Gun, since it was a really advanced fighter compared to the original F5s.

[@jamesunger6892]

Oh, Please. Hollyweird ain't that smart!

16:27 - "And here it is a thing about the F-20: Yes, it was an excellent aircraft, but the US already had three of those available. The F-15, F-16 and F-18. All of these were proved export successes." Correct me if I'm wrong: The focus of the F-5G / F-20 was low cost of acquisition and low cost of maintenance. F-15 and F-18 both are twin engines. No low cost of maintenance here. "Okay, so we have the F-16, correct?" No. At that time, both the acquisition cost AND the maintenance of it was high (because it was new (at that time - we're talking about late seventies, beggining of the eighties). The F-16/79 was projected exactly to try to "kill" the F-20 competition. I'm from Brazil, and I remember that the F-5G/F-20 was also offered to us, and I was cheering of the possibility of having it around here (I was around 12 years old at that time), but Brazil already had "recently" (at the beggining of the seventies) bought a Mach 2 interceptor (the Mirage IIIE), and it was relatively new at the time of the F-20 offer, and we were experiencing lots of economic troubles during the eighties (here there's a nickname for it: "the lost decade"), so we declined the opportunity of acquiring such incredible "bird". About that possibility, I have to mention a curiosity: since the late seventies / beggining of the eighties, Brazil uses alcohol (from sugar cane) as fuel for cars. I recall that in this century there were an F/A-18 that was modified to use alcohol (from corn), because USA was (correctly) concerned about the future of fighter fuel not being sustainable (oil based). Imagine what would/could/should happen if there was a joint work between USA and Brazil for developing that technology, with all the know-how that we have with alcohol powered engines? The F/A-18 engine is a derivative of the one that was used on the prototypes of the F-5G/F-20. Now we have the Saab Gripen, that also uses a derivative of that engine. Maybe we'll see something about it (alcohol powered jet engine) in the near future.

[@onkelmicke9670]

A few favorite should-have-beens YF-23 F-20 Cobra/YF-17 N-400 Tomcat 21

[@geeknproud321]

But the YF-17 became the F18. And the F-5/F-20 program led to the YF-17 to begin with.

[@jamesunger6892]

YF-17 couldn't match the YF-16. Turn rate, F-100 common with F-15, plus backing of USAF Fighter Mafia too! Yeah, the 404s are reliable; so what? Strakes?

[@carlosandleon]

definitely not the YF-23 Super overrated

[@carlosandleon]

what's the N-400

[@robertmcmanus636]

This aircraft has been one of my favorites since I was quite young. I think that's because of its striking lines that just make it LOOK like a great plane. Funny how the vagaries of governmental acquisitions kill off completely viable, perhaps excellent, platforms.

[@bennuredjedi]

This plane would be perfect for countries like the Philippines Ireland and New Zealand to name a few.

[@jamesunger6892]

... even the USA.

[@bennuredjedi]

Facts! The US Army wanted the F5/20 but the USAF denied them that capability

[@Sacto1654]

But interestingly enough, Saab designed a fighter around the same small GE F414 engine, and the result is the JAS 39 Gripen, a highly-regarded fighter that has some enjoyed some export sales.

[@lloydadkins885]

agreed Saab updated and built the F-20

[@cliffwoodbury5319]

I didn't know the most advanced versions of this craft was that good. Its alot more formitable than i once believed!!

[@babypanda2924]

Can you make a video on the modern equivalents to the F-5, such as the FA-50?

[@jamesunger6892]

There is no modern equivalent. Show me an airframe that can pull 12 -13 G's, and you found your equivalent. Those demo pilots were extremely well qualified pilots, and they both died because of the excessive G-LOC.

[@fungusmushroom]

Well done, enjoyed the adversary footage. Hired on at VFA 127 for the hornet program became F-5E/F airframe mech a well. Saw a F-20 flight demonstration at China Lake, lots of low level afterburner, wow.

[@slit555]

It’s the AR 180 of fighters

[@danpatterson8009]

Imagine running a business that sells an expensive, ultra-sophisticated product to a customer that changes its priorities with every election cycle. No pressure!

[@jedibusiness789]

I remember this plane and at the time it had a laser INS which could set under 2 minutes. In the end it lacked payload and that’s where the Falcon had it beat.

[@jamesunger6892]

Wrong, it had more hard points than the initial Falcons, and the system was an under 60 seconds align and launch - - it's right in the sales video!

[@LRRPFco52]

@@jamesunger6892 We were at Edwards AFB during the development of the F-5G/F-20A and I studied it quite closely. F-20A never had the weapons station count or payload of any F-16. F-16A had 9 hardpoints with higher weight allowances for stations 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 9. F-20A had 7 stations with significant limits. If you carried AIM-7s on the F-20, weather conditions would result in fin strikes on the runway due to the instability of the roll axis with certain crosswinds. AIM-7 was a non-starter for that reason, as it would FOD a runway for every recovery in-practice without a perfect wings-level touchdown. F-20A also only had 1/3 the combat radius of an F-16A, even with the F-16 carrying more payload. Fire Control Radar on the F-20A was a sad joke in terms of detection and tracking ranges. The avionics were great, but Radar antennae size was constrained by the tiny radome size, even with Northrop moving the bulkhead back to buy more radome volume. Then there was the lack of rear visibility and limited thrust-to-weight ratio, even though it significantly improved on the F-5E’s anemic T/W. F-16C was under development at the time and had USAF Mil-Std INS. F-20 was dead on arrival. I liked the aircraft a lot, but wasn’t aware of all its limits until I saw the numbers.

[@tb7771]

Growing up the F 20 and X 29 were my favorite. Need to see if you have a video of the X 29.

[@al_lahn4264]

It's a shame the F-20 didn't make it.

[@captain0080]

My old man had nothing but praise for the F-5, he started his carreer as an airforce mechanic with the Hawker Hunter before the F-5's were acquired and in the late 80's he was part of a delegation to israel to learn about the operation, installation and maintenance of upgrades made by the IAI.

[@kevin_1230]

I like the new T7 red hawk. Seems like it could fill a similar role to this.

[@frankleespeaking9519]

There is little doubt at Boeing that that will happen. I personally think that it will also someday take over the Thunderbird demo aircraft when the F16’s are too old.

[@kevin_1230]

@@frankleespeaking9519 The Canadian snowbirds need a replacement. This would be perfect.

[@sergiom9958]

Spain needs to replace its F5, a combat version of them it would be good one

[@kevin_1230]

@@sergiom9958 I think an armed version would be a great light fighter.

[@johnosbourn4312]

I don't think there could be a fighter derivative of the T-7A at all, unless the air force sees a need for a fighter version of the Red Hawk, if they see a need for it.

[@christianlords1340]

The isrealis got the plans for the F16 so they could develop the LAVI Fighter. It messed it all up and said that the program was costing too much. so they sold the plans to the chinese, the Chinese used the plans to develop the J10. How do you like them apples? So the Chinese got the plans for the F16. You wont read that in the main stream news.

[@Paladin1873]

I had to endure Jimmy Carter as governor when I was in college, then as President after I graduated and went into the Air Force. He has always portrayed himself as an honest, down-to-earth peanut farmer. I know better. It helped that a former governor of Georgia, Marvin Griffin, was a close family friend of ours. He once confided in me an incident about the real political of nature of Carter that I have no reason to doubt is true. Just thinking about the good men we lost in the aborted Iran rescue mission still makes me mad as Hell.

[@einundsiebenziger5488]

It was certainly not JC's fault that operation Eagle Claw failed. Not even a US President can cause sandstorms in the Middle East to get US helicopters to crash. And why would he have wanted to that operation to fail?

[@germanlerma4569]

Iven yo don't belive it, Mexico was interested in this aircraft, actually the Mexican Air Force evaluated it against the F-16.it was cheaper to acquire, operate and maintain. Unfortunately Mexico suffered the 85 earthqueake and the budget for the adquisition was cancelled.

[@noodles169]

Cool looking jet. I wonder what the 6gen fighters will look like. I'm guessing they will have to be fully automated. Human body's limitations, must be at the max it can take with today's 4th and 5th gen fighters

[@flavortown3781]

Eh the human isnt really a limiting factor as they have to support humans on the ground, and such, 6th gen will likely see uav wingmen integrated to the datalink, wider datalink targeting control, millennium 7 has some good vids about it, I actually think the human is one of the best parts of an aircraft

[@noodles169]

@@flavortown3781 you make good points about the human factor. I'll check those vids out bro. Thanks 😎👍

[@Charon58]

F-20 would have been a great fighter for small nations that primarily needed interceptors. It had an incredible scramble time and was very cheap to operate. But if you needed (like Isreal) a multi role fighter, it just didn’t the payload for ground attack.

[@winternow2242]

What country primarily needs interceptors?

[@ozairakhtarcom]

Best alternative to MiG-21s and MiG-23/27s and it's variants.

[@OgamiItto70]

"...Truly the ultimate 'what if' aircraft." I think the YF-23 Black Widow II is the ultimate "what if" aircraft. I already knew a lot of this, except for the DOD/State Department stuff. Seems like the whole deal was star-crossed and snakebit all along. Shame. The thing was highly praised by pilots who knew their business.

[@markymark3572]

The F20 had a lot going for it. Unfortunately it cost the same to buy as an F16, so the airforces of the world chose the latter instead..

[@joemaxey902]

My Dad worked on the f 20 project in support systems . Cool to see it again .

[@idwalwilliams3713]

Well balanced vid

[@DeusExAstra]

The F-5/F-20 is one of the all-time coolest looking jet fighters. It's so sleek and beautiful, it's too bad we never saw the F-20 in full production.

[@Tigershark_3082]

Ah yes, my absolute favorite plane besides the SR-71 and IAI Kfir C.7

[@alperakyuz9702]

You have an unusual taste of aircraft, in a good way.

[@Tigershark_3082]

@@alperakyuz9702 Thank you. I tend to like the more obscure aircraft (The X-29 is yet another favorite of mine)

[@skaldlouiscyphre2453]

F-20 vs. F-21, who wins?

[@Tigershark_3082]

@@skaldlouiscyphre2453 Well, the F-21 Kfir was basically a Mirage with canards and a J79 engine, so I'm gonna go with the F-20 Tigershark

[@SoloRenegade]

​@@Tigershark_3082 Right there with you. Excellent selection of aircraft.

[@Primus54]

Whenever I see the F-5’s, and even more so the F-20, I imagine a designer coming up with the most aesthetically pleasing “vision” of a jet fighter. Truly beautiful aircraft. Since then, the in service U.S. aircraft that comes the closest to such beauty is the legacy F/A-18 Hornet… IMHO.

[@lhkraut]

Like the YF-23, this is an aircraft that should have been.

[@petersouthernboy6327]

In 1981, when six Israeli F-16A’s put at least 8 dumb unguided 2,000 pound bombs through the reactor containment dome of the Iraqi Osirak facility - that was a big selling point.

[@FW-od1lt]

If it’s cheap and easy to maintain the Pentagon wants nothing to do with it. All one has to do is look how many times the A10’has been put on the chopping block.

[@guaporeturns9472]

One of the best looking series of aircraft ever.( I say that about every airplane)