The Fascinating Development Of Shadow The Hedgehog & Rouge The Bat

[@LostCourage]

Whoever decided to have Shadow's quills mirror Super Sonic was a genius.

[@LostCourage]

@Zero Bullet's Somehow I never made that connection but holy shit.

[@mayormaryam6586]

I know I'm late but this has been bugging me for weeks; 'Boku' is misinterpreted in the video, which is a shame because the way Shadow refers to himself already reveals a lot about him. So here's clarification of Shadow's use of the word for anyone interested: Besides the formal and gender-neutral 'watashi' (which is used by women more outside of formal context) the two most common masculine ways to refer to oneself are 'ore' and 'boku'. They're both casual, but 'ore' is somewhat crude and associated with the tough guy type--I can see a character like Knuckles using it. 'Boku' is more youthful and boyish, fitting a character like Tails. This is probably why Shadow's use of 'boku' is more popular with women, who most likely find it endearing as it characterizes a sort of innocence and contrasts with his appearances (compared to 'ore', which you'd typically expect someone like Shadow to use and is probably why the team was divided on this), hence the developer justifying his choice by saying Shadow 'is a very subtle and pure character'. I personally find it cute; it nudges him away from the edgelord role, if only by a bit. I don't mean to criticize such an impressively well-researched video, I just like the character as much as most here do and hate to see an interesting tidbit like that lost due to mistranslation! Hope this helps!

[@Eldarin]

Thank you so much for the in-depth clarification. I don’t speak Japanese myself so I was basing it off of google definitions and their wonderful inaccuracies. You’re not criticizing at all! I’d rather be told so in the future I don’t make the same mistakes :)) Thanks again and glad to hear you enjoyed the video!

[@MsMvsc]

Essentially it's "gap moe"

[@mayormaryam6586]

@@MsMvsc Exactly! That's a perfect way to put it.

[@carso1500]

@@MsMvsc Gap moe shadow the hedgehog, never through i see that

[@brokenscart7989]

This is the sort of content growing 30 year olds crave.

[@Eldarin]

Hey thank you! I thought it would be cool delving more into this kinda stuff than more of a typical review style because at this point what more is there really to say about SA1,2 etc ya know?

[@nojolie]

Im 30 this year

[@Eldarin]

@@nojolie happy early birthday!

[@MezzoForte4]

Hey hey now, we're still young at heart. Don't put us 30 yos out like that!

[@malina8961]

ayo chill i just turned 20 !

[@arsarma1808]

The "servant" part of boku is interesting. Thinking about it from the perspective of how he first presents himself to Eggman. He says that he will grant him 1 wish, like a genie freed from a bottle. However, like with a genie in a proverb, you should be careful what you wish for, even if you think the genie is serving you.

[@Eldarin]

That's a really good assessment/analysis of that line. Thanks for watching!

[@alicesacco9329]

Not exactly Shadow's final design, but the actual cut scenes Shadow model, with unkempt quills and folded ears (yes, in cut scenes his ear tips bend forward) as well as his healthy look suggest that he is a character that went through a lot in a short amount of time.

[@vgames9207]

thank you for being one of the few Sonic youtubers who don't talk about Sonic games other then the game your reviewing/talking about, its always so jarring to see someone talk crap about 06/about how Sonic sucks now/how bad Sonic boom is/how SA1 and SA2 have not age well/how Sonic was never good in a video thats not about these games.

[@Thebobbyjonesmonster]

8:32 sky rail is really beautiful always. Reminds me of the fall. The pumpkins Shadow and Rouge are so Halloween-esque My favorite.

[@Diwasho]

It's weird to think of Shadow as a "boku" character, he feels more like an "ore" one. The ore pronoun is often used by tough independent males who exert confidence, but boku actually makes sense for him given his relationship with Maria and willingness to cooperate with others.

[@SoIstice]

It's an interesting thing to think about. Shadow comes across as an "ore" character at face value and to many people, they can only see him as an "ore" character (like the Colors/Boom era writers) when they're missing all the nuance that comes from him actually being a "boku" character. People seem to confuse his introverted personality for him being a loner with no regard for anyone else, when he has always worked best in a team and genuinely values the people he builds relationships with. The Shadow in the colors era is not the same Shadow who would almost destroy the world for his best friend and end up saving it for the same person. He's not an arrogant, self-absorbed narcissist who thinks he's the greatest being to ever live. The guy goes as far as to put Sonic above him in the finale of SA2 and goes as far as to stand strong with his friends rather than turn on them when he finds out they'd turn on him in the future in Sonic 06. Sorry for going on a tanget, the whole "boku" vs "ore" thing really gave me a new and perfect analogy to help explain Shadow's true character which I really enjoyed elaborating on.

[@nicholastosoni707]

Someone posted the Nails the Bat artwork on Facebook a while ago. I developed from it this whole backstory about how she was an Alabama gal who dreamed of making it big in Nashville. And I want to see this developed in some form!!

[@ExoticSonic]

This video got me hooked to your channel! You are so underrated, (like jeez only 720?!) Your videos scream quality and I can't wait for more videos! Keep up the great work! 👍

[@Eldarin]

It makes my day hearing this! Thanks so much and also I love your profile picture that's such a cool drawing of Super Shadow. Hope you enjoy the videos to come!

[@YoshiBros1389]

Great video! Honestly some of the Rouge concept art looked like Amy!

[@Eldarin]

Thank you :) and now that you say that I totally see it... her art does look like Amy! Great eye!

[@YoshiBros1389]

@@Eldarin thanks!

[@UnHappyGingah]

but why never answered the most demanding question: Why the huge badonkers?

[@nicholastosoni707]

Ballast to keep her level when she flies?

[@EnderElectrics]

Dude your videos never dissapoint.

[@Eldarin]

thank you so much! it means alot to hear you guys are enjoying them :)

[@EnderElectrics]

@@Eldarin No problem dude! :)

[@AegisPancakes]

Great Video Man! Hope to see more like it, keep up the good work!

[@Eldarin]

I really appreciate it thank you! Stay tuned for more

[@kunlesanders]

For future Sonic the Hedgehog series: I want Shadow the Ultimate Lifeform to get a "New Female Character (swordfighter)" as a new rival. Similar to: 1.) Karai (from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles) 2.) Ravager/Rose Wilson (from Teen Titans, DC Universe) 3.) Blade (from Azure Striker Gunvolt, Gunvolt Chronicles: Luminous Avenger iX) 4.) Mara Jade Skywalker (from Star Wars; Expanded Universe) 5.) And more *Hint:* Just to try something different for Shadow the Ultimate Lifeform. And to keep away from Sonic the Hedgehog and his friends for some reason.

[@bamgedits5284]

Underrated KZbinr

[@Eldarin]

Thank you so much, it seriously means a lot to hear that :D

[@Cliffordlonghead]

Awesome Video

[@tonysan1859]

Rouge is def one of my favorite characters in the franchise. Her attitude and able to hold her own as a female character (and leader in heroes for team dark) always made her one of my favorites.

[@Eldarin]

Amen to that! Rouge is so awesome and is also a favorite of mine...thanks for watching!!

[@fyrewatermelons]

5:10 Dayum!

[@MezzoForte4]

The whole 'boku' stuff makes me want to replay all of SA2 in Japanese now. It's not like I spent a good piece of my life playing that game already.

[@Eldarin]

I know right?! I didn’t know you could change the language in game in the options so I definitely plan on doing something similar..thanks for watching and hope you enjoyed :)

[@StonerSquirrel]

Pretty sure whoever designed rouge the bat was secretly into dominatrix fetish.

[@_Tzer]

Hey eldarin you forgot another sonic rival in the intro knuckles his little cresent fur thing symbolizes the moon and sonics belly the sun chronicles confirms one of my fav characters can go super in the modern games knuckles

[@Eldarin]

Your right Knuckles how could I forget! Knuckles is so cool, thank you for watching and hope you enjoyed :D

[@JustJulyo]

Why doesn't Sega not want money? SA 3 can be reality by now

[@Mystere1985]

"I'm Rouge the bat, but you can call me Rouge." Uh, oookay..

[@rosiemymelody]

now i like shadow even more how is this possible

[@MSOGameShow]

Rogue was originally going to be called "Nails". The irony is killing me. Rogue, the dark counterpart to a character named Knuckles, was called Nails. XD

[@Eldarin]

I totally see the Amy resemblance! And yeah that’s a good point it’s quite funny how “nails” being the counterpart to knuckles similar to the hand lol

[@merkthederk3593]

I’ve been playing sonic adventure 2 and it’s been a blast. No it’s hasn’t

[@littlestudioplanet7568]

Hey Eldarin, recently discovered your content, and I have really been enjoying your videos. Glad to see you go over Shadow and Rouge's early designs. It's fun to go through concept art and examine the early stages of the final product. In the case of Shadow, his working Terios design is an interesting case. It's too simple, too basic, too unimaginative. Similar to Metal Sonic, Shadow needed a design that allow him to stand out while still resembling Sonic. The early Anti-Sonic design in the Archie comics (before he became Scourge) is simple too, but it works better because it works in tandem with his simple backstory and had a naturally more appealing design (probably due to the mix of colors). Terios feels like he's stuck somewhere between an Anti-Sonic design and a more complex design ala Metal Sonic and Scourge. Thankfully, we got the final Shadow design which reached that more desirable and complex design. And for that matter, let's also be thankful we got those fantastic Metal Sonic and Scourge designs too. Funny how many great designs from the series are derivative of Sonic himself, while managing to stand strong on their own. By the way, if you're curious on how a Classic Shadow could be handled, I came across an image on Reddit detailing a redesign where Shadow is a tenric. I think it's actually a cool and unique take that I haven't seen before. While I'm not sure if Shadow can really be made to fit into the Classic style, it would be interesting to see something similar to that. I was wondering what your own thoughts might be on the matter: i.redd.it/jvswmu0i8wm61.jpg

[@Eldarin]

Hey there! Im so happy to hear you have been enjoying the videos! I am planning to do more in this vein...thanks for the trivia about Scourge and Shadow as that was an incredibly interesting piece of trivia I have never read before...and you make a really good point about where Terios has kinda fallen in limbo between the "big 3" rivals of Sonic for that time period (I don't count Knux because hes more a friend than anything). As for the "classic shadow" its funny you bring this up because I also saw this on the sonic reddit myself and that was cool! (no pun intended) anyways I have really been wanting to see a 2D Advance sprite shadow for a while now but this classic design is AWESOME! It is able to blend the defining features of what makes shadow so awesome with a more "prototype/early" design look to him. If they were going to do him classic for a game I would just say keep his original black and red color scheme as it is and maybe instead of the roller blades(I cant tell if those are jet shoes or roller blades) maybe give him a bit more of a clunkier/bulkier look to his shoes so they look like a WIP from Gerald..The artist that drew this is incredibly talented also! Hope that answers it as this really is a cool and unique take on the character, I 100% agree :)

[@littlestudioplanet7568]

@@Eldarin ​ Whoops! My comment wasn't meant to imply any trivia. As far as I know, Anti-Sonic (he wasn't Scourge yet at the time of SA2) had no influence Shadow's design. To reiterate, I believe Terios's design is stuck between a design that's more simple and a design that's more complicated. I said somewhere between Anti-Sonic's design and the designs of Scourge, Shadow, and Metal Sonic. I'm not saying that the design is a cross between them or has taken influence from Sonic's rivals at the time. I'm strictly referring to the respective complexities/simplicities of each design. Anti-Sonic is a really simple design. Metal and Scourge, while still simple, have more complexities that make them stand out more while still looking like the Blue Blur. Terios is stuck in this odd place between a really simple design (like Anti-Sonic) and something more complex (like Scourge and Metal Sonic). If Terios wound up being the final design, it would've felt like the designers couldn't figure out the right amount of simplicity and complexity. In the end though, we got the final Shadow design, and what a great design it wound up being. The right amount of simplicity and complexity to create an iconic image, be visually akin to the Blue Blur, AND able to stand on its own. There, hopefully I made my points clearer. Last thing I wanted to do was give out wrong information on the subject haha. Thank you for responding, I enjoy these types of discussions :) But it does make you wonder how much Sonic Team took inspiration from the Western comics, or if they ever did at all. I would've LOVED to see a Sonic Adventure 3 with Scourge as the big focus, while continuing the theme of light vs dark that was prevalent in both Adventure games. (Oh, and as for Classic Shadow, I still don't know how well he'd be able to blend in. But, I will appreciate an attempt to do so. It would be a fun creative challenge. Though you mentioned you wanted to see a 2D Advance sprite. I'm admittedly a bit confused. Are there any notable differences between the Advance and Battle sprites? Because if you want to see a 2D Advance Shadow sprite, you kind of already have that with Sonic Battle. Are you referring more to the gameplay, seeing his sprite playable in a Sonic Advance level as opposed to a Sonic Battle arena? In that regard, I'm inclined to agree. It'd be cool to see more characters playable that way, especially after being neglected for so long in the main games.)

[@Eldarin]

xD Sorry I am dumb and misinterpreted that in your original post... its a really interesting observation nonetheless about Terios and comparing the different rival designs. I also love these type of discussions and talking about Sonic so no need to thank me! Although being obsessed with sonic battle when I was younger I forgot about Shadow's sprite when writing that LOL. I mainly meant just seeing Shadow in a 2D game (with a revival of the Battle/Advance sprite styles) and seeing how SEGA would translate his moves from 3D to 2D. Wanna hear something funny? Sonic Advance 3 was one of (if not may have been) my first video game EVER and when you bought SA3 back in the day, in the GBA box it came with a poster of Sonic Advance 3's box art on one side and Sonic Battle's on the other. I still have that same poster and now have it framed in my dorm!

[@littlestudioplanet7568]

​@@Eldarin Nice! I've had a few posters, but I never got a Sonic poster myself. And I've dabbled in emulations of the GBA games and that Flash Sonic game based on Advance 1, but I never fully played them. I sure appreciate their existence though, especially due to Sonic's reliance on meta humor and nostalgia-pandering these days. The Advance games followed the classic formula while standing on their own. One day I'll play all the GBA games, but not anytime soon. Oh, and I appreciate that they introduced Cream and Emerl. I saw in one of the other comments that you're a fan of Cream. I like Cream too and that Sonic X episode where she and Emerl have to duke it out was absolutely heart-wrenching. I really don't like how she (along with others) was subsided in Team Sonic Racing. Heck, she wasn't even in Sonic Forces. Man. It could've been so compelling to see how Cream at only 6 years old had to deal with the takeover of the whole world. I miss Sonic's extended cast so much. Specifically, how they were written in the past. Everyone, including Sonic and Tails, just feel like hollow, flanderized versions of themselves.

[@Eldarin]

Yeah I 100% would recommend giving them a shot one day. I don’t really know how to describe it but they have that true Sonic “feel” to them the same way SA1/2/Heroes do if that makes sense. I am a big Cream fan! She’s so awesome in my opinion, I don’t really have any exact reason I can describe like how I can with say Shadow or Metal Sonic but what I found funny and you might have seen was on the sonic subreddit I saw this picture of Cream and Shadow where Cream single handly flips shadow over and thought it was pretty funny (www.reddit.com/r/SonicTheHedgehog/comments/m00x6b/poor_guy_never_stood_a_chance_art_by_theadamay/?). It does suck how just about all of Sonics charatcers and the guy himself have either been shelved or demoted to a one word adjective that describes their whole personality now. Hopefully in the next games, since we have new writers something good will come out of it. Also just wanna say that would’ve been an incredibly interesting arc for Cream in forces if they added her and made her relevant again!

[@jamesa.646]

3:13 WHY DOES THIS SHADOW DESIGN HAVE PECS

[@Eldarin]

the ultimate lifeform has been hitting the gym it seems

[@mitchfletcher2386]

I like the name "Terios" more than "Shadow" anyways....and to be honest, the real Shadow should've stayed dead. It would've been more impactful.

[@Eldarin]

I do like what they did with shadow's character in the future games but I agree it did cheapen the ending of SA2

[@Aodhanbaby]

WHERE IS CONCEPT ART FOR ROGUE CAR?

[@Eldarin]

C H A O C A R

[@Cliffordlonghead]

Why did sega make Rouge Sexual idk?

[@Squishito]

she got dem jiggle physics tho

[@ivanthebatmotion2967]

3:58

[@Rouge_Gems]

I really Hate Rouge's two-piece uniform 🤬🤬🤬.

[@RiiViiMedia2424]

Also kind of weird that despite being advertised heavily, Shadow has the least amount of stages in spite of having arguably the most impact on the story.

[@Eldarin]

I agree its very weird but I have a feeling its just a classic case of Sonic Team rushing dev time and cutting stuff...who knows

[@LavenderAyane]

I think and I could be wrong about this, but I think he wasn't originally planned to be playable; only sonic, knuckles and eggman were. Which also explains why those three have the most stages and power ups compared to their counterparts because they were worked on first.

[@RiiViiMedia2424]

@@LavenderAyane Is that based on the trailer? Don't forget that Shadow was teased in that very trailer.

[@NinjaKIngAce]

Yeah, but that's part of what made him so mysterious, at the time

[@avalanchemkii7506]

@@RiiViiMedia2424 He was teased as a new foe for Sonic, but only Sonic, Eggman and Knuckles were planned to be playable originally. The other 3 got added in later. You can see Sonic going through Sky Rail in early trailers, which also explains why it's the only Shadow stage to not fit his particular style of music.

[@groove.mp4]

rouge the bat is such an underrated character. she deserves so much more. she’s super cool.

[@Eldarin]

I 100% agree! Thanks for watching

[@espurrseyes42]

A lot of characters deserve so much more. All of the characters honestly.

[@groove.mp4]

@@espurrseyes42 yes like silver and blaze too they got overshadowed by the reception 06 got :/

[@nithinshakthithiruppathi4028]

@@groove.mp4Chaotix

[@LannyLeArtist]

Yea

[@nojolie]

IMO Shadow and Rouge have the most complex and fascinating relationship in the whole franchise, how they were forced to work together in the beginning even though they hated each other and from there kept teaming up only out of convenience which grew into a genuine friendship. Its like they try to act like theyre just business partners but secretly care for each other. And its also funny how rouge is so flirtatious with all the boys in the franchise and messes with them but not with shadow

[@Eldarin]

I 100% agree, I absolutely ADORE their dynamic! Its one of the best parts of the series in my opinion. Thanks for watching :)

[@ZachaRicO]

Man...with how much love and care was put into making Shadow who he is in his earliest appearances, it's really sad seeing his character get reduced to oW ThE eDgE in modern Sonic games. At this point, they might as well give him the scar he had in his beta designs...because that's what's happened to his reputation.

[@mitchfletcher2386]

The scar would be way cooler.

[@justjabari6430]

Idk, in sonic forces some of his edge was kind of gone, and now that I’m thinking about it now, he was never edgy in the first place, even now he still isn’t, think about it, when has he ever actually been edgy? the only game I can think of is his own game, Shadow The Hedgehog, but that’s the only game he’s been Ow ThE eDgE.

[@ZachaRicO]

@@justjabari6430 Yeah, he became more subdued in Sonic 06, but that was the last game where he was in the spotlight. During the 2010s, Sega flanderized him into a smug, friendship-hating bully who looked down on everyone. Forces brings him back closer to how he was in 06; now we just gotta hope he stays that way.

[@justjabari6430]

@@ZachaRicO yep

[@shatteredscry]

It’s a shame. Shadow is such a badass concept. It’s the same with metal sonic, but shadow was a step ahead since he was his own true character. Wish the following sonic game stories shined through like the Adventure series. Imagine all the ‘ehh’ game stories if they had time and effort in them.

[@MicahBuzanANIMATION]

Original Shadow looks more like Knuckles. That would be kinda cool to have a shadow version of Knuckles.

[@Eldarin]

A shadow knuckles would be an interesting concept for sure. Thanks for watching!! Also, I checked out your channel and your animations are gorgeous keep up the great work!!

[@pantyosashu8137]

Ankles?

[@pretzeldragon2975]

That's Rouge

[@fabianugalde3789]

If there's ever a Knuckles Chaotix 2, my one of my ideas for the story are that the Chaotix track down evil counterparts from Knuckles and a few other characters. Since Sonic, Tails, Amy, Shadow, and many others are busy, they get help from Knuckles. As well Mighty will come back to the team, and they will get the help from Ray. Together they fight against the "Shadow" Knuckles and other "Shadowfied" versions of other characters. My other idea were the Team Chaotix, Mighty, and Knuckles working together to defeat the Team Hooligan, a band of criminals in Mobius.

[@andrewsd.r.7180]

the closest we ever got to that is probably Shade from Sonic Chronicles, but we'll probably never see her again which is a shame.

[@RadiantBlazeVA]

The cool thing about Beta Rouge's design is the concept that her wings were on her arms similar to irl bats than on her back like how you see in her final design.

[@Eldarin]

That would've been really interesting to see if they went with that design and how it would've looked in the final product with the wings on the arms! Thanks for watching :)

[@RadiantBlazeVA]

@@Eldarin Yeah, I can see why they changed it tho as I can easily see it being a pain to animate. No problem, I enjoyed the video!

[@gnbman]

It's funny that the early concept art for Shadow and Rouge was very 90's before they finally became more 00's.

[@BWF6_Official]

It's very interesting to see how these two fan-favourites evolved during the time of making the game. That concept art of Shadow could've inspired the creation of Mephiles as both look somewhat similar. Rouge on the other hand doesn't have as much concept art as Shadow but this can be explained by the fact that she was already designed well and unlike Shadow she wasn't created as a same species counterpart.

[@Eldarin]

Thanks so much! And yeah I didn't think of that, Mephiles could've been inspired by shadows concept art especially in how they keep the same relative color palette especially with those Uekawa pieces I showed in the video. I was surprised by Rouge's lack of concept art (that's released to the public at least) but you make a good point in how the designs were relatively similar and streamlined to her final one compared to Shadow's which went all over the place

[@fabianugalde3789]

I mean I think that Mephiles was intented to look like Shadow, so that Sonic and friends would get confused. As well Shadow is the ultimate lifeform so since Mephiles is a god of destruction, he needed to be similar to Shadow

[@superhydra8873]

Zimmerg 08 ok well obviously he's a genetic duplicate, he was talking about how prototype shadow (the over designed one) looks like crystal mephiles

[@HG-vd6hz]

the name “Nails” was definitely meant to be a mirror of Knuckles’ name since they share the same play style, considering the fact that both names are hand accessories that they use to dig with

[@F1areon]

It could also kinda be a mirror to "Tails", too, since they're both able to fly (and also they both have kart-racer levels)

[@caseyhoward4986]

This vid was so good! Yeah I agree that it’s a shame that there isn’t more rouge info out there but your analysis was still awesome!!

[@Eldarin]

thank u sm

[@polyman6859]

Hard to believe some people prefer the beta designs for Shadow. I always liked how Shadow had his quills done like Super Sonic in his base form to indicate superiority. His final design actually makes me believe Sonic could be mistaken to be Shadow because at this point Sonic has had 2 separate transformations that caused his quills to spike up (this was before Hyper Sonic was struck from canon). His beta designs also pictured him with a sword which just makes them look even worse to me. I'm glad we got the final Shadow design like this and I could say the same for Rouge.

[@Eldarin]

I LOVE shadows final design and I feel he may have not had the same impact in the franchise if he looked like the concept art. That's a really good point about how is quills were done by super sonic, I never thought of it like that but it makes complete sense now. Interesting! also lol imagine shadow running around with a sword...hope you enjoyed! :)

[@polyman6859]

@@Eldarin I definitely enjoyed the video thanks, also we have Lancelot who actually came out in speed battle like yesterday lmaooo.

[@Eldarin]

@@polyman6859 great, im glad to hear! and oh god im gonna have to play it more...earlier this year I was ADDICTED to that game and then got Excaliber sonic and now I need to pick it up again hahaha. I was really impressed with how fun speed battle is also

[@brodino1590]

I love the low Polly model for shadow in sa2. It’s my favorite, next to the rush models.

[@polyman6859]

@@brodino1590 Shadow's sa2 model and skating animations are very neat.

[@fabianugalde3789]

Nails the Bat and Terios the Hedgehog were the newcomers in Sonic Adventure 2

[@Eldarin]

imagine if those were the names that stuck lol

[@pretzeldragon2975]

I actually kinda like Nails. Kinda reminds me of Knives from Scott Pilgrim

[@izukumidoriyadeku9846]

alright alright who tf decided 'nails' would be a good name? *W H O 👏 T H E 👏 F U C K 👏*

[@izukumidoriyadeku9846]

@@pretzeldragon2975 GIRL I-

[@ChaosRayZero]

@@Eldarin Tails and Nails having similar names would cause _so much confusion._ X^D

[@katieee_llyn]

I said it once and I’ll gladly say it again- WE DIDN’T DESERVE Shiro Maekawa. What a legend

[@Eldarin]

Amen to that!

[@ataladin87]

Indeed we didn't. He kinda ruined the franchise abit.

[@gama103]

He’s the GOAT

[@razminfox1787]

I like how Lara craft prototype rouge was like a punk Laura craft

[@Eldarin]

Thats a good point she does look really similar to the old Laura designs. Nice catch!

[@ChaosRayZero]

Doesn't Croft spell her first name without the U? Like *Lara?* _-Yes I know I'm nitpicking! Shush!-_ X^D

[@razminfox1787]

@@ChaosRayZero im not a big tomb raider fan

[@ChaosRayZero]

@@razminfox1787 Me either. _I don't know why I knew how her name was spelled._

[@Adamwinters]

If Knuckles is the Piccolo of the Sonic-verse, Shadow is its Vegeta.

[@Eldarin]

oh 100%

[@charlieparker5346]

Ah yes, Double Vegeta Mickey Mouse

[@jackepong6300]

Sonic 3 and knuckles is why shadow exists. He was born based off the painting of super sonic in the ruins of angel island which is where gerald got the idea. Thats why he has super sonic's spines, and why people thought he was sonic. Because they know sonic can transform and saw him when he fought perfect chaos. So they thought this dark sonic is just another form of his.

[@elviskaboom]

Really enjoying these short little dives into the hyper-specific topics. Great work!

[@Eldarin]

thanks so much im really happy to hear your enjoying the new form of videos, stay tuned! :)

[@Harrinsain]

I find it super ironic that Shadow, a character originally created to serve as a villain, eventually grew into more of a lawful good hero than Sonic ever was. Mind you, this isn't me criticising it, I just find it super funny that an originally antagonistic character wound up having a more heroic personality than the literal hero of the series. lol.

[@fazelfarrokhi1998]

we must somehow bring maekawa back please for great stories and of course shadow and rouge in twitter we have this #Maekawa4Sonic in order to bring him back i hope sega sees this hashtag and please do the hashtag in youtube too maybe sega sees you

[@fazelfarrokhi1998]

in term of sonic heroic things he just a guy that LOVE adventure nothing more nothing less he just help others on adventure

[@Eldarin]

Yeah shadow in the SA2-06 era had an awesome character arc imo. Solely focusing on SA2 though, I think that's what made him so likeable as although shadow isnt a true "evil" person he is just trying to do what he thinks is the right thing and as the story continues to evolve, we see he is actually very similar deep down to sonic and his view of "right" was just misguided (in being a good person and doing the right thing). That was my takeaway at least!

[@Eldarin]

amen!

[@shadowgoethe]

Perhaps the appeal lies with how Sonic's type of heroism contrasts with Shadow's. Sonic is a daredevil adventure loving wild card that will always do the right thing but has fun and appears childish while doing it. Sonic is the upbeat, always shining, never say die character that western culture paints a hero should be. Shadow on the other hand represents what heroes really are. Heroes do what's needed to be done, they are conflicted, damaged, psychologically troubled and burdened. There's a reason Shadow's 06 story is the best of the trio, it's more compelling cuz Shadow has much more to lose than simply not saving the world he's going to be hunted and his loved ones (Rouge and Omega) taken from him...again! Yet he chose to still press onward and "fight like I alway have" Which is alot more compelling than saving a princess in my opinion.

[@Sydney_Angelyt]

That infinite edit is amazing

[@Eldarin]

thank you so much! im happy to hear you found it funny :)

[@KraziShadowbear]

Shadow's concept art looks like Sonic's edgier, older brother while Rouge's concept art looks like Amy's older, edgier sister. XD

[@Eldarin]

They edgy twins lmaoo, thanks for watching!

[@quonit37]

The more I learn about Shiero Maekawa the more I like him. He's stated once that he'd be interested in writing for Sonic again, but they just aren't interested. A lot of the reason why he was bogged down over time had to do with Sonic 06, sense the game reached poor perception they decided it was the writers and artists fault (the people that were being overworked to finish the game), rather than. The people who rushed the game. so pretty much all the artists were let go or moved to lower and lower positions until they were forced to quit. Not many have spoken publicly about that but if you follow it and look into it, that definitely seems to be the case.

[@Eldarin]

I'd love to see Maekawa return for the upcoming sonic games, while I don't think its realistic I'd love to see it happen. It's ashame as if it was released as Sonic 2007 and another run through/edit of the story happened, he would probably still be here today and 06 would have a whole different opinion on it. Thanks for watching and hope you enjoyed!

[@xxxxxxx235]

See SA2 I click💯

[@Eldarin]

a person of culture I see... thanks for watching!

[@Amazaurs000]

Back when i was a kid playing Adventure 2 i didn't believe that Rouge was a bat as the cutscenes say because of her wings are more dragon wings that are on her back rather than a true bat that has it's wings be a thin membrane that connects its extended pinky finger to its feet

[@quonit37]

I think this is great. Rouge is a dragon now.

[@nicholastosoni707]

@@quonit37 "Yaw a GIRL dragon!"

[@F1areon]

...that would actually fit really well w/ her obsession w/ jewels, tbh :O @@quonit37

[@_Tzer]

dear people saying shadow shouldnt use guns or know how to operate vehicles hes a military weapon/unit what compitent military doesnt allow its units to use guns modern knuckles confirmed to be able to go super in sonic chronicles it was stated in the thingy about the chaos emeralds

[@garfieldodie3106]

SA2 is imo the objective best sonic game (tho 06 is my personal :0), and I think the design, story, and music of this game are fantastic! I feel that tails' and knuckles' (and their counterparts') gameplay style help add the exploration and methodical traditional platforming to the game which are missing from sonic's stages. They are just as fun as sonic's levels imo. A lot of people don't like them, and I didn't the first time around, but every subsequent playthrough they get better and better (and I've played it about 20 times at this point XD). I really hope sega can truly embrace this iteration of sonic and build upon it in the future! I would like to see less linear stages ala Sonic adventure 1 return at the very least.

[@Eldarin]

Yeah I was in the same boat as I am currently 100%ing SA2 right now and on first runs on the story missions the mechs can feel somewhat clunky but as you start using them more and see the idiosyncrasies of it, its incredibly smooth and responsive. I was INCREDIBLY impressed by Eggman's stages, theyre so fun! I was in the camp that SA1 knuckles stages were better but now actually playing both sides there's absolutely no contest as I am in LOVE with Rouge stages..

[@fazelfarrokhi1998]

@@Eldarin how does the music for these stages make play it more like how you feel when you hear the music in sa2

[@fazelfarrokhi1998]

and when p-06 project is FULLY finished for pc play it more

[@vylet9807]

It was a great honor for Rouge and Shadow to make their debut in SA2, which has a spectacular story. Just compare it to Sonic Forces. Infinite looks so cool and his ability had much possibilities, but he isn't remembered as much as Shadow. Shadow had a complicated past yet he 'grew up' as a hero, saving everyone. Though his motive for revenge was hard to understand or relate for us(I think this is why we tend to think he's an edgelord etc.), he changed in a good way. At the start, he was arrogant. In the end, he was caring. He even took Biolizard himself to let Sonic and Knuckles pass. While fighting the Final Hazard, Shadow says Sonic might be the ultimate life form, accepting him as a true rival but also acknowledging his capability. He sacrificed himself to save everyone. It was surely impressive and moving to many of us. Rouge also grew up, you can find it in the staff role scene. She murmured little pay for too much work, but in the end she says she got something better than jewels, looking at Shadow's limiters. At first, she was only a spy to investigate Shadow, but she came to worry about him as she found more information. She learned how to express gratitude(when she gave Knuckles the pieces of Master Emerald), and worry about someone else other than herself(when she told Shadow about Project Shadow). Since the game had a well-weaved storyline, those two characters were appealing and attractive to us. I really love how Shadow and Rouge still get along since SA2. Because that means the whole storyline from SA2 was not only impactful but also very fascinating and well structured. This is why my favorite characters are Shadow and Rouge, and why I love SA2. Other than the story, the voice actors of those two were very fitting(though I agree that Rouge's voice at that time would not very much fit in the modern Sonic games). That really helped with appreciating the cutscenes.

[@MrRAGE-md5rj]

I thought her voice was alright.

[@vohloo9797]

My own personal theory that I've had for a while was that Maekawa probably only knew shadow conceptually as a darker sonic and only saw the prototype designs when writing him. With this idea in mind it would make sense why Sonic gets confused with Shadow and arrested. And when looking at the story boards this idea sorta adds up seeing as he's drawn as a darker Sonic (or this is just me looking too deep into things)

[@Eldarin]

Excellent point that would make alot of sense! It would be a classic SEGA move to give the guy only the concept without any word on the actual design lol. He did a great job... and awesome analysis of the situation there!

[@vohloo9797]

@@Eldarin @Eldarin thanks lol, also great video didn't know alot of the background info regarding the characters.

[@nikolaradulovic5283]

I may be wrong about this but I've heard that in the Japanese version of SA2 the GUN agency actually knows it's Shadow but tries to frame Sonic in order to hide Shadow and the old events of the space colony from the public

[@vohloo9797]

@@nikolaradulovic5283 That's interesting, have to listen to the transcribed Japanese dialogue to get a better context, nonetheless a good thing to consider.

[@ChaosRayZero]

@@nikolaradulovic5283 I never heard that as "in the Japanese version." I've heard that particular explanation of the events, yes, but *I always heard everyone say it was a fan-theory/headcanon.* Then again, I don't speak Japanese, and I've never looked up fan translations of the game's actual Japanese dialogue before either.

[@MilkshakeSkunkette]

Great video dude! some of the OG shadow designed were super wild - it kind of makes sense how the military would've mistaken him for sonic... less so with his final design.

[@Eldarin]

Hey thank you so much I really appreciate it! Shadow's OG designs are crazy! I wonder how they would've translated to 3D though as shadows final was a pretty accurate translation in my opinion

[@MilkshakeSkunkette]

Yeah it wouldve been pretty interesting to see some cutscenes with them! Though i do think they went with the best design in the end xD

[@ALtheBoi]

Man am I glad I found you great content dude, keep it up!

[@Eldarin]

Hey thanks so much! Welcome and I hope you enjoy the content😺

[@mattinoblivion1310]

Shadow's first designs straight up look like fanmade Sonic OCs, especially the whole missing eye thing. glad they didn't keep much from those lol

[@Eldarin]

I agree lol, his final design is perfect, I do hope if we get remakes that they give us unlockable skins that bring these concepts to life in the 3D realm though, just to see how it wouldve translated

[@Aodhanbaby]

I wish Shadow had a scar still. Imagine how cool that would look when he went Super....

[@Eldarin]

_T_ *H*_ I_ *S* _I_ *S* _W_ *H* _O_ *I* _A_ *M*

[@icarue993]

too edgy... I'm surprised they managed even edgier designs and went with the least edgy

[@amai459]

@@icarue993 Its kind of sad that most times the writers are making shadow really seem edgy when he isnt supposed to be "edgy" at all. :/ Edit: nvm I think the scar is fine but I'm good with how shadow looks lmao.

[@ChaosRayZero]

My headcanon: Shadow has a scar- _his fur just grows over it so you can't see it!_ X^D Serious response though: If you like scars, have you tried looking for pictures of Scourge The Hedgehog from the Archie comics? It's a chest wound instead of a face wound though...

[@Outta-hz1ej]

I'm surprised Shadow uses "boku" in the Japanese version of SA2. I figured that Shadow would have referred to himself as "ore-sama" (a prideful self-centered term), like Vegeta does, however it does make more sense.

[@Eldarin]

I was surprised too that Shadow doesn't use something cockier like Vegeta but its awesome also in my opinion at least as it gives an extra layer to his character as although he gives this ""ultimate"" (no pun intended) confident outward appearance, deep down he believes himself to be a servant to Gerald Robotnik and Maria's wishes. Really cool characterization by Maekawa in my opinion. About Iizuka also, I believe he still have alot of great ideas but he let everyone get into his head about "what sonic should be" and not what HIS vision of the franchise which is where this decline characterization decline starts to happen in my opinion. If the guy got some true confidence in himself back and did some crazy stuff like in the ""dark"" era again but just gave it his all I feel alot of the fanbase would be satisifed...its just we've gotten these games where the ideas on paper are excellent but in execution, it becomes half baked and hollow giving the feeling of "what could've been". That's my take at least!

[@hihi-nm3uy]

overall, shadow is confident, but not overly arrogant like vegeta is. i’m not too surprised to hear this.

[@bronxishomenomatterwhereig3149]

I'm so confused. One would think two piece Rouge would provoke a reaction. Not the sketch art. Am I missing something???

[@HealerMaow]

Great video! Love anyone who gives the franchise attention matched with good research. Instant subscription. Keep up the good work!

[@Eldarin]

Hey! Thanks so much really means alot to hear that! Stay tuned as I have some new stuff coming very soon :)

[@jefferysmith6740]

Damn this was one of the last times illzuka was competent 😔👊

[@Eldarin]

id love to see what goes through that guys mind on a daily basis...so many crazy good and bad ideas he's had

[@hugoflores1093]

Iizuka can be a great director, but SEGA of America keeps screwing him over Shadow The Hedgehog (Game) is so much better in the japanese script

[@jefferysmith6740]

@@hugoflores1093 no actually, he can be a great director, but since things he did shows that he is incompetent. Look at Splash Dashes video on sonic boom.

[@SteveCrafts2k]

@@jefferysmith6740 You mean LS Mark?

[@jefferysmith6740]

@@SteveCrafts2k yeah, that’s his friend

[@shelleytaylor1896]

i like rouge and knuckles dynamic as he was stated to be shy around women, while rouge literally has a massive heart on her chest

[@hoseinbmr3449]

Looking at concept arts is cool . I think shadow with a missing eye would be cooler . And it's great that Tails was in the game because he was a real hero there

[@LeanneMustafa]

the definitions of shadow are insanely perfect to describing Shadow 🤯 i cant think of any character in any media with a more perfectly fitting name

[@Eldarin]

I 100% agree they really hit it out of the park on every aspect with him in SA2

[@SplotchTheCatThing]

Hard disagree on the Sky Rail music track there. It uses some pretty advanced composition techniques which are completely absent from Sonic's other music tracks, and the drums are completely electronic. If you can focus on the kick or the cymbals it's pretty clear, and I'm fairly sure the snare is programmed too. Most of Sonic's tracks used a mix of electronic and real drums, with each one having its own place in the overall sound -- it was Shadow and Eggman's thing to use fully electronic drums in a way that imitated real ones, as well as that experimentation with minimalism and more advanced techniques. Almost all of Sonic's tracks also had a lead guitar that was played normally with a pick, oftentimes even with a second lead guitar adding harmony. The rhythm guitar tended to play a fairly simple accompaniment when it was there at all. But on the Sky Rail song the rhythm guitar is prominent and complex -- it's very much in the focus particularly when the time signatures change -- while the single lead guitar stays mostly out of the way, and only plays harmonics. So, while the actual reasons are subtle, there are enough of them that the Sky Rail track as it was released would have still probably stuck out like a sore thumb among Sonic's other level themes. It is a bit more hopeful and less brooding than its kin, but it's still got the hallmarks of a Shadow song. And coming as it does at a point in the dark story where Shadow's plans are starting to coalesce, it makes sense from his perspective to have a more upbeat tone. And as much as I don't really like this particular song, it does kinda show that even while brainwashed by Gerald, Shadow is still a more complex person than he likes to let on.

[@seriut]

3:46 i just love this design of Terios, he just looks so menacing lol. his pose reminds me of frieza

[@TheBlueStarGal2]

I absolutely love these two, with Shadow being my second fav character (2nd to Cream) and one of the main reasons I got into the franchise in the first place! Rouge is also super underrated! And fun fact, Shadow's color scheme, stripe pattern, and pointer quils make him look a whole lot like a black tenrec, also known as the "lesser hedgehog" or "false hedgehog". I honestly wonder if that was inspiration for his current desgin, or just an odd coincidence. But that makes me kinda wish he really was one (however, we do get a tenrec in the comics, and she's a parallel to silver, named gold).

[@Eldarin]

AYYY A CREAM FAN! YES!!!! I have a really soft spot for Cream since Sonic Advance 3 and the Advance series period was one of my first video games ever (and theyre awesome games)! Thats a really interesting fact about Shadow thank you for sharing :D and with Rouge I agree since the soft Pontac reboot with Colors it feels her whole character has been boiled down to nothing which is unfortunate because she is awesome in this game!

[@DemonDethchase]

Awesome video dude, and we could do with Shiro Maekawa coming back, now that Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee (Pontac and Graff) have been given their marching orders to try and give Sonic stories abit of credibility back 9:19 (me from 2001) Tails not being playable in Sonic game, no way would that happen! (me in 2021) I miss Tails being playable....

[@Eldarin]

Hey thanks so much man, hope your doing well! I'd love to see Maekawa come back as I feel he would steer the franchise back onto what made it awesome imo and you had me laughing quite hard at the Tweedle Dum and Dee analogy to Pontac and Graff

[@TheMGMfan]

I'm glad I actually watched the whole video before commenting, as I was almost going to mention the idea of only half of the playable characters being playable at first only to hear you say thay same thing. What I do want to mention is that most of your audio of the game seems to be in mono for some reason; I find it really distracting while wearing headphones, but it’s not a big deal, and this video is otherwise great. EDIT: What I find interesting about the design for Shadow shown at 3:29 is that it's clearly based off Metal Sonic, which makes me wonder if Shadow's backstory was different at some point; maybe he was meant to be a new, improved model of Metal Sonic, a la Neo Metal Sonic from Heroes, or even the basis of Metal. Either way, if this is true, it's possible that was the original version of that design, and the one on the bottom left was actually an updated version to accommodate for his new backstory by dropping any resemblance of Metal.

[@Eldarin]

I appreciate the feedback on the audio, I'll certainly work on that for the future. I personally recorded the cutscenes so it must be something to do with my game recording software(thanks nvidia shadowplay lol). Thanks for watching!!

[@stuff31]

hot take: Shadow should have the shawl and scarred eye if Sonic Movie 3 is based on SA2.

[@theevildalek5425]

4:37 Honestly, I kind of like these 2 concept designs....Maybe even more then the actual one. The more realistic bat wings which are tucked in rather then sticking out, the combed to the side hair, the footwear, the thinner legs, shorts instead of leggings and the more covered chest. It looks more cool while still keeping that glamorous side of her with the hair and also the eyelashes & earring. And you cannot deny that this design is less sexualised then the final design. I know some people say that it’s odd to say that about a cartoon anthropomorphic bat, but come on, Rouge is a bit more “OUT THERE” then most Sonic characters. I like the final design, but this one I might like even more. Alternative Universe Rouge design (like the Boom Universe), this is what I’d go with

[@OilReserved]

I like the concept designs for Rouge. They are less provocative.

[@BBWahoo]

Anyone notice that rogue has the skull shape of an applehead chihuahua?

[@Eldarin]

LMAO I laughed too hard at this, now I can’t unsee it hahahaha

[@SIG7Pro]

Lol

[@ChaosRayZero]

Apparently in the Archie comics series, anthro-animals in Sonic's world can breed with other "species" of anthro-animals. Maybe she's part chihuahua on her father's side or something.

[@Kirbychu1]

As characters introduced in the game, the designs of these two characters really embody the atmosphere of SA2.

[@Eldarin]

I 100% agree! Thanks for watching

[@mechashadow]

Always wondered if that older design of Rouge was carried into that bat in Daigasso Band Brothers,

[@mechashadow]

Would be nice to say Nintendo copied Sega for once.

[@Eldarin]

I know right?!? That’s also interesting as I could totally see the old Rouge design being inspiration for the girl in Daigasso Band Brothers...good catch on that!

[@shining_k.5181]

wow so glad i found (i mean pop up in my recommendations) your channel, this video was super well done !! cant wait for future videos :D

[@Eldarin]

Thank you so much, I hope you enjoy what’s to come :)

[@FurbytheFlareon]

Reading all the comments on this video and seeing everyone respect Shadow and the Story writer of SA2 is giving me a happy, yet melancholy feeling. •́ ‿ ,•̀

[@UltraPrimal]

1:30 Wait. Shadow's last name is Android?

[@Eldarin]

Hey there! No not exactly, its a really bad dialogue translation. In Shadow the Hedgehog one of the endings is Shadow finds out he was an android (as the question was raised if he was the real shadow in heroes) and that's the final line of that ending which became a meme. I'm a little foggy on Shadow's story as I haven't played it for a long time but Im pretty sure thats the gist of it. Thanks for watching and hope you enjoyed :)

[@CosmicDinosaur]

Wait, wasn't Blaze the original antagonist for SA2? Before Terios was a thing? With same black-red color scheme and more artificial look, almost like a ghost?

[@fazelfarrokhi1998]

yes but maybe later he talk about it in sonic rush concept art video

[@Eldarin]

I personally have never heard of that before as I thought she was introduced for Sonic Rush and then retconned for '06. What I did find though was her OG concept art which was done back in 2005 mirrors shadow quite a lot! I'm gonna go more into this when I talk about the Rush games but hopefully this makes sense. (lastminutecontinue.com/news/christmasdayblaze/)

[@Eldarin]

assuming im doing a sonic rush concept art video, eh? ;) (I kid..I kid...but i probably will since everyone is enjoying these)

[@CosmicDinosaur]

@@Eldarin Gonna be waiting for those, no pressure through. Thank you for your content!

[@TronicSSJ07]

5:47 Don’t worry, Infinite. I will make you better.

[@Tailslol]

wait, there is some infinite ideas in here....

[@Safalmao]

8:49 also in "the trail" sonic has his classic shoes! instead of soap shoes.

[@megabuster3940]

"Ore" is the rude boisterous counterpart to "Boku" Ore wa Boku no

[@Eldarin]

I didn't know that! Thanks so much for the added info on that as thats really interesting to me. Thanks for watching :)

[@Argentavis]

Awesome stuff!! Really enjoyed learning more about my favourite Sonic game! :)

[@ecaterina9915]

I love shadow, I met him when I was 9 and I fell in love with him for everything, the design, the history, the personality hard on the outside but soft on the inside, now I'm 22 and my love for him is not even a little,faltered I can say with certainty that I follow the series only for him and the dark team, I also buy only the games in which shadow appears if there is no shadow in a game I do not buy it, hahaha

[@Eldarin]

Aw thats so sweet, thanks for sharing as it really made my day reading that! Shadow is such an awesome and well written character in my opinion. Hopefully we get more of him this upcoming year with the new games...one thing I have always wanted was Shadow in a advance like 2D game for some reason lol

[@ecaterina9915]

@@Eldarin I would really like it if they did a tv series or a game where the dark team does GUN missions, it would be interesting for me

[@Eldarin]

That would be amazing! Also that piece from the sonic Twitter (sonic channel or whatever they call it nowadays) is so awesome with shadow and Maria!

[@tysonthewolf]

A Dark Sonic? Isn't that just racist-

[@sanglish18]

7:05 this line is a little different in Japanese, which is more like "Aren't you the fake here? Actually, aren't we on completely different levels for you to be called a fake?", which gives a much more badass feeling to the character than in the English translation, which he sounds too cocky in my opinion. I'm pretty sure SA2 at the beggining was planned to have only Sonic, Knucles and Eggman as playable characters as seen in the first trailer (I mean, why wouldn't they show at least show Tails?), Shadow and Tails would appear only on cutscenes (I'm not sure about rouge, but she would probably be much more present in the "Knuckles Campaign" as a rival), so Tails, Rouge and Shadow and all the system of Hero and Dark side were implemented later in the game, which explains why these 3 characters have only 4 stages, compared to 5 for Knuckles and Eggman and 6 for Sonic, that's also probably why they used the Kart racing minigame to compensate as one stage for Tails and Rouge (it's pretty clear that the Kart racing minigame is pretty basic and lack a lot of polish, so it also seems to be a rushed addition just to add more stages), developers didn't have enough time to create some new stages so they gave Sky Rail for Shadow, and I believe at the beginning Sky Rail as Sonic would happen after the President cutscene and then Sonic goes to the mountains on the way to the Pyramid, which in the final version there is no stage between these two scenes, which makes much more sense than Route 280 (Rouge) and Sky Rail (Shadow), which doesn't help much in the plot since they don't even catch Tails, also I think Sky Rail is too easy and short for it to be almost the last stage, which also makes much more sense considering there lack of a Sonic stage between Green Forest and Pyramid Cave, which was supposed to be like this: Sonic (Green Forest) > Knuckles (Pumpkin Hill) > Tails (Mission Street) > Knuckles (Aquatic Mine) > Tails (Route 101) > *Sonic (Sky Rail)* > Tails (Hidden Base) > Sonic (Pyramid Cave)... In the final version there are 5 levels in a row without any Sonic stages, where it probably was supposed to be 3-4 considering the Kart racing stage was maybe a later addition.

[@Eldarin]

Hey there! thats really interesting how the whole translation differs from Japanese to English. I just got done this week getting all 180 emblems for SA2 and I can agree on Tails being added later as his levels don't feel as well designed as composed to Eggman's in my opinion which are such fun mech stages. As for Shadow I would've been interested to see lets say they took an extra couple of months..what other speed stages we would've gotten. I imagine Sonic would've kept Sky Rail and maybe balanced that out with Shadow stages because Sky Rail story wise with Shadow is just really out of place and I would've been interested to see if we would've gotten a pyramid cave themed level for Shadow or a whole new location...really interesting to ponder, ya know? Anyways thanks for writing this out it was a really interesting read. Thanks for watching also and hope you enjoyed the video!

[@sanglish18]

​@@Eldarin Yeah, I think the only Shadow stage where is pretty well done in Radical Highway, White Jungle is too easy and short, especially when you consider that there is unused object placement that makes getting all rings in this stage impossible, Final Chase gravity mechanic lack a lot of polish also, and I'm pretty sure Rouge's Mad Space is the last stage to be completed since it's the last level ID in the game's code, which explains why this level also lacked some revision, especially because of all those small platforms far away from each other at the bottom, which takes too much time to go to most areas, the A-Rank requirement is extremely unfair, is 14000 points, which is too much considering Death Chamber and Meteor Herd was 12000 points, considering how big Mad Space is, it heavily depends on luck sometimes, which seems the developers barely tested the stage, so they thought "oh It's the last level so let's just put a higher score requirement". Just like SA1 you can see the game was pretty rushed, with probably less than 2 years, and they couldn't even extend the production time because in March 31, 2001, Sega announced they discontinued the console, since SA2 was released 3 months after the console was officially discontinued, they couldn't wait too much, that's probably when they decided to discard the "World Ranking" system since they realized the console was dead so there is no reason to maintain a World Ranking server, which seems to be almost complete when you see some older builds, which also makes sense to think they thought this would be the last Sonic game, like in the Hero Story Preview where the narrator says "Farewell Sonic... Forever". I still think SA2 is the best Sonic game but I always wanted it to have more production time, to add and improve more stages, cutscenes, etc.

[@Eldarin]

That's a really good point! I love White Jungle but it is really easy once you know what to do. I remeber reading somewhere that SA1 was made in 8 months but I don't have a source on that so take it with a grain of salt. Maybe in a remake they can put those things that were left on the cutting room into the final game :D

[@sanglish18]

@@Eldarin actually it was 10 months, but it's still a very short time, back when Sonic Team did good games despite having rushed development :\

[@Eldarin]

@@sanglish18 It would literally ONLY be Sonic Team that could rush a game in 10 months, still have it be fantastic, and have it impact the franchise LOL. I hope this year we finally get a game thats been in the oven long enough to not be considered "rushed" in some aspect

[@aortaplatinum]

"We already had a rival for Sonic in Metal Sonic" Damn has Knuckles really been sidelined THAT hard? Though seeing the yellow-gloved proto Shadow reminds me of just how much Shadow stole Reala's look

[@Eldarin]

Dont get me wrong I love our boy da red, but in my opinion at least I haven't really considered him a rival post 3K as he is more of just a buddy sonic butts heads with Adventure onwards (like Piccolo from DBZ off the top of my head) while Metal's whole thing is his cope of not actually being sonic ya know?

[@caseyhoward4986]

Yeah I see what you're saying, but I guess Knux had already been playing second fiddle in terms of Sonic's rival since Metal Sonic was created first. And just as quickly as Knux replaced Metal, it seems like Shadow became the rival after him. This leaves Metal as more of a villain than a rival these days, Knux being Sonic's friend, and Shadow being the rival. But I definitely think that the Sonic and Knuckles rivalry should be explored more at some point!

[@robertanderson9447]

@@caseyhoward4986 Sonic the Fighters kind of acknowledged it. There's a track in the OST called North Wind which plays every time Sonic and Knuckles are selected in a 2 player match.

[@MagillanicaLouM]

Legit need a Rouge tomb raiding spin off lol

[@Eldarin]

That would be so awesome! Having a linear adventure(not like the sub series lol) like game would be cool as heck

[@xxxxxxx235]

💎💎💎

[@thenewgamer64]

it's still a funny but odd tidbit knowing that data mined texture files for Rouge's main outfit showed she has/had a camel toe painted on her model. Her designs do nod towards that appeals

[@shatteredscry]

I didn’t recall seeing SA2 concept designs! What a cool video 😄 I adored the SA1 art, as it’s my favorite sonic game, but seeing the creators thoughts on Shadow really wanted me to give SA2 a play through.

[@Eldarin]

Thanks so much it really means alot to hear you enjoyed the video! I know right SA2's development is so interesting especially when hearing from the devs :)

[@shatteredscry]

@@Eldarin it is! I love seeing behind the scenes of these classic games. Seeing the development process is encouraging for my own creations as well. Keep youtubin’!