Masterfully executed root informational extraction, analysis and summation
@football0552 Жыл бұрын
I doubt GM would allow it, but having Andy Oury on the podcast to explain the tech behind Ultium and what is going on with the DC charging the Hummer/ultium packs would be really really cool.
@newscoulomb3705 Жыл бұрын
18:00 To me, that indicates an unfinished charging profile programming. I expect it to be smoothed out over time. It took GM several years to finalize the charging profile for the Bolt EV as well, but when they did, they were able to retroactively apply that charging taper (rather than stepdown) even on older models.
@normt430 Жыл бұрын
That's one thing that it will only improve from here.
@b127_1 Жыл бұрын
I'm surprised that this hummer only takes 170 ish kw at 50%. I'd expect a bit more out of a 240kwh pack. The Ioniq 5 has similar speed with a pack that is a third of the size.
@Hotrod66100 Жыл бұрын
as always fantastic job with numbers. can't wait to see if those numbers will extend to future Optimum batteries on Hummer, or will they change (software).
@BillPotter-bb6hh Жыл бұрын
Kyle, you should check out this patent by GM for the pack switching, it involves having to switch the HVAC pack usage during the charging and this may explain the dips you are seeing. US2021/0078429. The two halves can get out of balance due to one having the HVAC load during charging. So they can switch that during charging to keep the packs in balance. Your theory of the HVAC and DC converter working at 800V is likely not correct.
@keithritter9338 Жыл бұрын
Exactly. GM engineers told TFL that “pack switching” was what caused those sudden dips. Additionally, multiple owners have seen that post-initial-dip low constant KW charge speed like test 1’s curve on EA chargers. It appeared to be a charger restriction, perhaps hitting thermal limits back at the charger power boxes. EVGO charging experiences have also had the initial balancing dip, but typically quickly recovered to high kW speeds.
@BillPotter-bb6hh Жыл бұрын
@@keithritter9338 It is possible the charging went into 400V charging mode on that blue curve, in order to balance the packs. The GM patent mentions that potential mode for imbalance between two halves.
@stevedowler2366 Жыл бұрын
Yeah enjoyed this video with deep dive on Hummer's charging curve. Not getting a Hummer, personally but good advice on stopping a charge session around 65% or even lower depending on where you have to get to. I stop charging the Model Y LR around 75% when it starts to fade and just plan on stopping at the next station around 10% or so. Cheers and drive safely.
@johnpoldo8817 Жыл бұрын
As an electrical engineer and EV owner, these power curves are interesting, but as a driver I’m much more interested in miles charged. I want to look at the miles curves to see how long it takes to go from 0-100 mi; 0-200 mi; 100-200 mi; etc. Let’s see when it makes no sense to stay charging and move on to the next charger. Based on charging my Tesla and Lucid, it seems the minimum charging time for a long road trip is 10-60% SoC. For some EVs, it may be faster to stop at 50%, provided there are ample chargers on your route.
@davidbaker9943 Жыл бұрын
Great job. Would be much more interested in the lyriq since they are using the same battery on a much different scale
@normt430 Жыл бұрын
Lyriq too!
@newscoulomb3705 Жыл бұрын
1:04 I think the higher energy estimates are based on people referencing the EPA documents, which include losses from charging at 240 V. So a typical 10-12% loss will result in an additional 20 to 30 kWh of energy required to charge the battery from empty to full. The actual gross capacity should be 219.5 based on the battery cell spec sheets.
@gregpochet4812 Жыл бұрын
Chargers prices need to be uniform. People really don't want to do math to figure out if the price per KwH is better than the charger that is price per min. All gas stations' price is per gallon no matter what state you go to. EV Chargers need to do the same.
@BillPotter-bb6hh Жыл бұрын
There is a second patent GM has regarding reduction of dendrites in the battery pack, and that may cause the curves to shift, based on starting SoC. Kyle, I think you should try starting some charges at 40 or 50% SoC to see what happens. US 2022/0134900. Some of your results already show this affect, looking at the curve where you started at 30%, versus starting near 0%. The figure in that patent indicates a high starting peak and then tapering after some amount of time or charge added, rather than being purely based on SoC.
@ALRinaldi Жыл бұрын
I love that you showed the complimentary session for the video. I’m sure EA was happy about that one! 😂
@ChinoBingo Жыл бұрын
I can’t wait for Kyle profile Lucid Air charging curve.
@Gurule Жыл бұрын
It's all about the curves
@michaelheinrich44 Жыл бұрын
like in my twenties ;-)
@skyemalcolm Жыл бұрын
That dip up at 80% is not dissimilar to the E GMP car’s 80% pause/dip they take where they chill for a few minutes to collect their thoughts and reassess before climbing back up.
@hifixenthusiast7617 Жыл бұрын
Didn’t you say that there are two battery stacks? Wouldn’t each stack be at 90% SoC when the Humma is reporting 80% SoC, since it would be reporting on the aggregate SoC? Which would explain why the drop is around 60%.
@RussellHardison-ws1gk5 ай бұрын
Great information. It would be nice to have a 400V charge curve.
@matthewbaynham6286 Жыл бұрын
Perfect for plugging into a standard wall socket.
@andrewt9204 Жыл бұрын
That dip at 80% is probably a resting voltage check to make sure it's at what it thinks it's at. Since there's probably very little top buffer, that's important to know.
@St_JohnYam_Steve9 ай бұрын
When paralleling high power devices that far apart would be thermal differences between them. This is because you can never make them to be the same. It looks like they have the dip to allow thermal equalization between the modules. Otherwise there would be hot spots meaning the one that has the highest temperature would take most of the current and could cause thermal runaway. I would charge all the way to 70-80%. According to my experience, I had seen how hot it is when putting 500Amps into 3/0 copper wire for half an hour. (Expensive wire) I don’t know how they did it but putting that much power into the system all the time shouldn’t be good and one thing for sure it would cause a lot of thermal cycling through all the connectors.
@AlexisUrena Жыл бұрын
Very cool video Kyle. Don't forget to flush. 😏
@stephenlee5929 Жыл бұрын
Hi, I wonder what would happen if you stop at 70% then take it back to about 65% then restart..
@irfanhusein1445 Жыл бұрын
More than an hour from 0-80% makes the Hummer a mediocre road tripper. My Mach E does it in 43 minutes and my model 3 in 32 minutes. And I think the ionic 5 does it even faster
@DblOSmith Жыл бұрын
Whatever happened to the Jaguar iPace? I thought that was a formidable EV, but now no one ever talks about or reviews it. What's up with that?
@KalleSWBeck Жыл бұрын
They didn't make very many
@MyCousinGrandpa Жыл бұрын
I just got one of the Subaru Solterra EVs. I’m still learning the chargers, can you do a video on Solterra?
@RogerM88 Жыл бұрын
The Hummer EV is almost more expensive to run than the original Hummer. Not that efficient due to it weight, expensive to run using superchargers as maintaining it.
@Christoph-sd3zi Жыл бұрын
Who cares - it's still cool.
@b127_1 Жыл бұрын
Here in Europe, we get a few city cars that have impressively slow fast charging. I once spent 35 minutes charging 15kwh to make it home with a VW e-UP. Next time I take that car I'll plug it in AC, because looking at the fast charger to see it putting out 26kw isn't fun. You can also turn on the headlights while changing, so great job VW... Apart from range and charging speed, the up is pretty great, but having to charge an hour every 160km/100mi makes it probably the least road trip-able EV with CCS.
Жыл бұрын
What's the problem with allowing to turn the headlights on while changing?
@b127_1 Жыл бұрын
@ DRLs would be fine, but the UP will happily sit there with the high beams on if you forget to turn them off. Not ideal
Жыл бұрын
@@b127_1 I think this is true for like all European cars though.
@b127_1 Жыл бұрын
@ I doubt that id3 and the like will turn on the headlights while charging when on "auto". The up genuinely doesn't seem to know that it is charging, apart from not letting you drive. It is one of the most lazy ev conversions I've ever seen. It drives great and is very efficient, so it would have sold like crazy had they given it a bit better range and charging speed. Oh well, too late now.
@TheAdventureAuto Жыл бұрын
Based on the initial dips of the blue and red lines, it looks like it can only max charge for the first 23% of added charge. Why else would the dips happen at different SOC? If you shift the red line over as if you started at 0% like the blue, then they match up. Very interesting.
@EV_OBD Жыл бұрын
You should see battery voltage and current with OBD2 dongle.
@newscoulomb3705 Жыл бұрын
16:20 GM's strategy appears to not use a bottom buffer at all, which is why cars like the Bolt EV will die at 0% (technically -0.9%, but still, not much at the bottom). So the only real buffer you'll see is at the top. Based on your testing of ~212-213 kWh usable from 100% to 0% and the battery specs of ~219.5 kWh gross, I'd expect about a 6 kWh top buffer, which is only about 3%. So not a true 100% SoC, but close enough that it will increase degradation over time. FWIW, the first generation Bolt EV appeared to have no top buffer at all, which is why I was able to pull a true 60 kWh from 100% to 0%. After the update that GM issued (in 2018?), I lost about 2 kWh of usable capacity, and until the bigger battery was released in 2019, most Bolt EV owners were reporting 58 kWh usable when the car was brand new.
@Nebula1701 Жыл бұрын
hear, hear! Kyle, should take a look at what you and Bill potter have been saying in the comments here.
@mikea5424 Жыл бұрын
Charge the Hummer in Tennessee and see how much it costs.
@andyfeimsternfei8408 Жыл бұрын
I would like to see comparisons of EVs charging at max peak current compared to lesser current. Overall Teslas really don't charge much faster on a V3 versus a V2. High peak current seems like a gimmick, one that has little gains in charging times yet is going to be very hard on the grid.
@TeddyBearGaming999 Жыл бұрын
Wonder what the lyriq and blazer would be like compared to this, considering the hummer is basically 2 lyriq/blazer batteries stuck together. Sounds like they would be just ok, not particularly great, like the mach e and older id4
@shawnp4840 Жыл бұрын
I feel like we need new terminology. Calling the Hummer the fastest charging EV is akin to calling a car the fastest because it has the most horsepower. I don't even know if the Hummer is mid pack in charging time to get 200 miles of range added. Maybe the Hummer is the most powerful Charging vehicle and something that can get you 200 miles down the road in 15 minutes would be the fastest charging EV.
@ouch1011 Жыл бұрын
Honestly, this charging curve is a bit concerning for me for the future Ultium (sp?) vehicles. It would be reasonable to assume that the charging curve characteristics will be similar among all the vehicles since it’s the same battery modules, just scaled up or down. A 212kWh battery charging at 360kw is 1.7C, which isn’t that much in today’s world, yet it still can’t maintain that speed for very long. To put the charging speed in perspective, 1.7C on an 80kwh battery would be 136kw. That is acceptable but far from impressive charging speed, especially if it can only maintain it to 40% (like the Hummer). Maybe this is just an initial/cautious charging curve that they’ll improve later? It’s also worth noting that if the Hummer is charging 360kw at 800V, that is still far less amperage than a Tesla charging at 250kw, so it really isn’t stressing the charger that much (450A on the Hummer vs about 650A on the Tesla). Plugging a Tesla into the same charger (with a CCS adapter) and having it charge around 200kw would actually be more stressing to the charger and cabling than the Hummer EV charging at 360kw. It’s the amperage that causes the primary stress (heat), not the voltage (since 800V is still not that high) or the power (since power is just volts times amps).
@Nebula1701 Жыл бұрын
The Hummer isn't charging at exactly 800V, also the charging curve for Ultium isn't strictly based on SOC, it's more based on time. Patent US 2022/0134900
@daviidfm923 Жыл бұрын
I really do wonder how much money ea lost on that hummer charge between demand fees and free charging😂😂😂😂😂
@BensEcoAdvntr Жыл бұрын
EVgo just switched to per kWh pricing in most locations
@andyfeimsternfei8408 Жыл бұрын
Actually peak charging power is a real concern. Huge utility peaks for little overall gain. Totally negates any benefits of converting transportation to electricity. I'll argue there needs to be 150kw limits or less on all charging during peak times.
@Infinion Жыл бұрын
Which might have to drop much lower as the grid strains itself to the breaking point. Also not a fan of the way most battery electrics are trending to >80 kWh to make range while at the same time being very un-aerodynamic and energy hungry.
@andyfeimsternfei8408 Жыл бұрын
The V3 Superchargers have nameplate ratings of 640A at 1000V. Still blows my mind such a wimpy cable and connector can be rated that high!
@BensEcoAdvntr Жыл бұрын
Don’t know if it’s true, but I heard those units aren’t safety certified due to smaller gauge cables
@andyfeimsternfei8408 Жыл бұрын
@Ben's Eco Journey The inverter nameplates show those ratings but I've been in the power industry for over 40 years and I have never seen any plug and cable assembly so light and thin carry that kind of power. You could never get it to pass safety regulations in today's industrial and utility industries.
@keithritter9338 Жыл бұрын
Per Tesla’s NACS release, they get the higher amps by willfully exceeding IEC temperature limits (which CCS follows) IEC is 50 deg C temp rise above ambient or 90 deg C max temp. Tesla is 105 deg C max temp, regardless of ambient. Yeah, the cables and connectors could boil water.
@andyfeimsternfei8408 Жыл бұрын
@Keith Ritter But the general public is going to handle them? Again what is technically feasible and what is safe are two entirely different things. But wait, that's right I'm driving a soccer-mom car with 1000hp! Tesla can get away with anything!
@markrichards9792 Жыл бұрын
If you compare the hummer ev to a hummer 1, it is very good for the environment.
@bnkwupt Жыл бұрын
Impressive? No, not at all. Yeah it can suck down a lot of juice, but the C rate and the range added per hour is poor. Great video! Thanks.
@Vxvx22 Жыл бұрын
Even at 70 percent, it is charging at over 100 kw. How can you call it slow and ask people to stop charging at 65 percent?
@marcusrose5943 Жыл бұрын
WOW the chargers work 🤐
@USUG0 Жыл бұрын
wouldn't the slowest be the bz4x?
@abraxastulammo9940 Жыл бұрын
2:32 Drop drop drop! 🙈 6:00 This is a joke? 😱
@manolidadon6939 Жыл бұрын
I would rather suck on a ev tailpipe then a gas one, oh wait evs have no tailpipe😮😂👍 hummer ev is at least saving our lungs while it runs compared to gas. Renewable battery vs non renewable cmon people wake up. Car emissions can cause health problems
@Nebula1701 Жыл бұрын
Kyle please review patent US2021/0078429.
@BlondieSuperdog Жыл бұрын
i think you are sort of pro EV? but this just keeps making people realize how much they can be a pain in the ass. Like your Luxury sport sedan is charging your car sitting in freezing cold or screaming heat for 30 minutes or more - and of course not all chargers have the tops charging speeds so it really is a pain unless you commute and charge at home most of the time - then the charging time isn't very important as long as it charges in a night.
@Sophia-vk5bq Жыл бұрын
Yeah the Hummer is a beast, it beats out my Bolt on range pretty handily. I'm just not impressed with the efficiency. I think I'd go with the car his wife got over the Hummer.(the name of the car is eluding me lol)
@jaredbradley4957 Жыл бұрын
Audi e-tron I believe.
@Sophia-vk5bq Жыл бұрын
@@jaredbradley4957 I think it was an id.4, either an S or S pro. I remember it having lumbar massage.
@martin3316 Жыл бұрын
Terrible charging curve. Super slow past 70%. I think the Hummer EV shouldn't be allowed to charge past 70% @ public DC charging stations.
@MalcolmRowley Жыл бұрын
You might as well stop at 70% charge as far as time is concerned. What a hog.
@guyg2005 Жыл бұрын
Anybody that buys a Hummer is not concerned about the environment. Battery to big and uses too much power. GM is a joke. We give them to much attention. How many EV vehicles has GM produced in 2022? How much is GM in debt? They are a burden on the American tax payer.
@jameswilliams5921 Жыл бұрын
What's the percentage of people who own evs buy it because of environment.
@theichione1827 Жыл бұрын
Both the 2022 Toyota Prius AWD and the 2022 Hummer EV are EPA rated for 51 mpg(e) city but not sure a Prius on 35 inch tires could maintain that rating, so probably not a fair comparison.
@troosimimimmi Жыл бұрын
you can always charge at home like most people
@febrianadji5758 Жыл бұрын
"it's an expensive toy"
@swss12 Жыл бұрын
The hummer is so anti ev it’s amazing. Sure it’s cool but evs are about efficiency and being green. This is like the worst
@tiger7892 Жыл бұрын
Anyone else have no audio?
@craftibob Жыл бұрын
Yes
@KyleConner Жыл бұрын
Hm weird - KZbin is still processing the video so give it a few - I released it a bit too early from upload
@tiger7892 Жыл бұрын
@@KyleConner thanks! Guess I'm not used to being that early to videos 😅
@windowman9665 Жыл бұрын
It’s funny how people talk crap. My car can do this. Like the Mach e? You’re really going to compare a Mach e charging to a hummer Ev? Hummer is 1000 hp with 212 kw battery. The Mach e is what? 480 max HP and a battery of max 91 on the “extended?” Fords batteries / evs are junk compared to most of the market. Take these lightning / Mach e out when it’s -20 and see what happens. Ford really screwed their customers over. Now they are trying to justify their purchases. The value of the early ford evs will plummet in a couple of years. Sorry. Should have waited for better built evs
@Gurule Жыл бұрын
First?
@Bob_Sacamano Жыл бұрын
so much face this episode
@greggb681 Жыл бұрын
61 minutes of charging just to get 265 miles or 80% charge sucks.... It takes about 3 minutes to fill my tank of gas from empty to full "about 20 gallons" and that gives me 380 miles of range. If electric cars can cut the charging time in half I am definitely willing to buy an EV. But right now I still think they are too slow to charge and too many bugs with electrify america and lack real world range.
@travelguy78 Жыл бұрын
While I agree with you that this car doesnt really charge very fast it must be remembered how seldom you are at a fast charger. You start with 300 miles of range every day from charging it in your driveway. Its only when you drive more than 300 miles in a day that you need to fast charge and most cars typically charge upto 80% in 20mins. So you spend less time at "the pump" than with a gasoline car.
Жыл бұрын
Well, this is as he said a car that likes to be charged from 0% to 30% really.
@BenefitOfTheDoubtInquiry Жыл бұрын
If you only had to fill your tank once every other month, and it took 25min, and cost $10, would you do it?
@BenefitOfTheDoubtInquiry Жыл бұрын
@Bowie The majority of charging happens at home while you're asleep. A Model 3 costs about $40 to charge 1000 miles at home. Superchargers are used primarily for road trips over 150 miles and cost about $10 for 150 miles, and take 15min. Sorry you've been mislead, but those are the facts.
@tommesob5099 Жыл бұрын
The battery of that car on pure DC use is probably toast after 30000 miles. These changing curves and 360kw Peak Speed for sure kills the cells.
@travelguy78 Жыл бұрын
Its less than 2C. Its far less stress on the battery than most EV`s that are in use today. For example the Tesla Model 3 charges at 250KW at a 80kw battery, so its about 2.5times the stress on battery
@Infinion Жыл бұрын
Tom, respectfully, you don't know what you're talking about. If that were true GM would not warranty the Hummer EV for 8 years / 150k miles (when they're already billions in debt). Fast charging doesn't kill batteries, but extreme temperatures and high end of charge voltage do, and always over time (cycle life). Like @travelguy78 says 360kW is not stressful at all, the charge rate is 360kW / 213kWh which is just about 1.69C rate, and that's for only 10 minutes before it intelligently drops speed to manage the heat. If we saw cell temperatures way out in the upper 40ºC and climbing without charging speed dropping, then it would warrant you saying something like that.
@tommesob5099 Жыл бұрын
@@Infinion Mate get your information straight on Fast Charging and Battery degradation before you throw these facts. Every EV Owner gives you a warranty, im talking that with these charing rates your battery after 2-3 years of DC usage is between 80-90% of Health.
@JulianMarkHouse Жыл бұрын
EV or hybrid? That is the question. Hybrids self charge, while straight EV’s don’t.
@KyleConner Жыл бұрын
Do you work for Toyota?
@eagleflight06 Жыл бұрын
@@KyleConner LOL love this
@Gurule Жыл бұрын
Self charge? Lol
@4bladesdigital Жыл бұрын
Spending a ton of money at a gas station = self charging????
@abraxastulammo9940 Жыл бұрын
EVs self charge when retarding or going down the slope.