The Fate of Anne Boleyn and Catherine of Aragon's lost babies

Delve into the poignant and little-known stories of unbaptised babies in Tudor England.
Join me as we explore the tragic losses experienced by queens like Anne Boleyn and Catherine of Aragon, and uncover the sombre truths behind the fate of their lost children.
From the solemn doctrines of Catholicism to the compassionate acts of rebellious midwives, this video sheds light on a subject both haunting and deeply human.
Discover the historical mysteries surrounding the burial practices of these infants, and journey with me as I navigate through the complexities of grief and faith in Tudor society.
#TudorHistory #InfantLoss #UnbaptisedBabies #AnneBoleyn #CatherineofAragon

[@elanabethfariss117]

What an awful thing , that a mother who is overcome with sadness and grief would have the added gut wrenching blow that her deceased infant would not make it to heaven because it wasn’t baptized. I’m so glad things have changed in that regard. Thanks Claire.

[@monicacall7532]

Agreed! Considering that the mortality rate for newborns and infants was extremely high the idea that the babies couldn’t go to heaven was beyond harsh and cruel! Only a man could come up with a rule like that because men have no concept of pregnancy and what it’s like to have a new life growing in inside you. Good for the midwives and anyone who chose to disregard that horrible teaching and give those precious stillborn and barely born babies the respect that they deserved just for being human.

[@cindyrobinson3077]

I had two miscarriages and I think of my lost babies being held by Jesus and it brings comfort

[@curiousman1672]

Absolutely. They are well, very well. And, in the fullness of time, they will greet you and assuage your grief, in a place where there are no tears.

[@cindyrobinson3077]

@@curiousman1672 amen and thank you

[@debbimeyersbrant5752]

I am 60 years old I am off and ask how many children I have and my answer to them is I have seven in heaven which I call my seven roses and two that walk this Earth

[@cindyrobinson3077]

@@debbimeyersbrant5752 ❤️

[@user-kf6lu4dn2r]

"Do NOT think I come to bring peace, FOR I COME AS A SWORD to divide father from son, mother from daughter, and mother in law from daughter in law, and a persons enemies shall be those of their own household. yeah, he who loves his family IS NOT WORTHY TO FOLLOW ME". There is NO world in which Jesus would be holding your dead baby. You serious need to get some grief counselling from an actual mental health professional, your ridiculous religious delusions are not helping you grieve in a healthy manner.

[@dalestaley5637]

I've had two spontaneous abortions. Lay people call that a miscarriage. I hemorrhaged with both. I was at work in a ICU when the power went out, I had a 5 year old on a ventilator who needed ambued until auxiliary power was restored. I was hemorrhaging on the floor, grabbing a bath blanket off the bed while I ventilated the child I stood on the blanket until power was restored. All the RNs were busy with the other patients during this. I had just moved to the state, didn't know I was pregnant, had no gynecologist. I went to the ER. The doctor said "my dear, you're hemorrhaging", as if I didn't know as I was a ICU Charge RN and was covered in my own blood. I had an emergency abortion to complete the spontaneous one so I could heal. It was quite an ordeal. I was off for one day, returned to duty. Thus, is the life of ICU nurses.

[@britanniau.k.4352]

Brave and compassionate lady.❤

[@anneboleynfiles]

I'm loving your comment because I want to send you so much love. That must have been awful to go through.

[@kristinesharp6286]

An abortion is killing the baby and then delivering it. A miscarriage is fetal demise that was not intended and began on its own. There has to be some way to remove a dead baby. The concern is intentionally killing in the womb and then removing.

[@jennyhunter-beckinsall6411]

I remember reading that the Pope said in 2006 that there was no such thing as limbo. I remember being so angry on behalf of those poor ladies who thought that their babies were floating around in limbo for the last 2000 years.

[@Shane-Flanagan]

As devout as Catherine of Aragon was, I can't imagine her allowing her babes to go unbaptised and buried in unconsecrated ground. It goes against Catherine's perceived image. Catherine was also well loved so I can also imagine midwives etc bending the rules for Catherine to bring her some level of comfort in her grief. She had enough to contend with, with Henry's disappointment and the pressure to deliver a healthy and living male heir

[@helene4397]

But if babies were stillborn, they would not have recieved bapthism. However if baby was born alive...

[@Shane-Flanagan]

@@helene4397 Just sad though that a baby was considered sinful if not baptized and not received a decent resting place

[@rycoli]

So sad to add more grief to the parents.

[@user-du7te9et5j]

I do believe rhat babies who couldn't be baptised on time are with God. He Is So Loving and Merciful.

[@anneboleynfiles]

I agree.

[@promesaysemilla]

For this one, the Summa Theologiae by St. Thomas of Aquina could be a good read to get to know more about the Christian-beliefs from the Middle Ages. What Claire mentions at the beginning of the video about the original sin is key for a deeper understanding on why baptism was of great importance for the regeneration, the seal, the safeguarding, the enlightenment of one’s soul.

[@Shane-Flanagan]

Thank you Claire ☺️ A very sensitive topic but one that needs looking at. Thank you for handling it with the upmost delicacy, care and respect 👏 Hard to understand an innocent babe being born sinful, sins in need of washing away and if they weren't baptized before death, they weren't deemed qualified to receive a decent Christian burial. All those poor babies buried secretly and unmarked in in consecrated ground and forgotten. Sad subject indeed 😢

[@Lyndell-P]

🇭🇲 🦘 👋 You commented on this 'delicate' subject very well Claire and the knowledge imparted by you was interesting for us to be made aware of. Your narrative being excellent. A difficult, sad and delicate 'topic' but one that is (sadly for many) as relevant today - as it was centuries ago. Including during Tudor times. Sensitively done, and "Thank you" Clare xx

[@curiousman1672]

Don't be sorry. A delicate and deeply sad topic for sure. In my estimation, none of the little ones are barred from entrance.

[@Shishycat]

This is an excellent subject to cover. Having a miscarriage is such a sad and significant event in our lives, and we really don't discuss it enough.

[@kimberlypatton205]

And childbirth, being as dangerous as it was then, I simply cannot imagine the grief and hardship on the mothers and babies. Every single one who grew to die of old age was a miracle in itself!

[@tsarina24honolulu87]

Or abortion regret.

[@maryw246]

Limbo, what a hellish idea. Catherine and Anne must have suffered unimaginably thinking of their children hovering in nothingness on the edge of purgatory.

[@cplmpcocptcl6306]

I don’t believe that Anne held that belief.

[@animallover6645]

She might have cause she wasn’t a full Protestant.

[@maryw246]

@@cplmpcocptcl6306 I would love to hear more about what actual beliefs Anne held. For example, how many of her Catholic beliefs bled over to her newer reformist views.

[@tracypower6413]

We were taught that souls of people born prior to the deal made by Jesus for salvation,were also in purgatory where they cared for the babies souls.

[@tessat338]

The midwife was charged with a discrete and secure burial of remains and the "products of conception." One can see how they also ran the risk of accusations of witchcraft from nasty-minded people who were suspicious of their "secretive" actions.

[@giraffequeen9437]

I'm struggling with my fertility right now (no losses, just not having success getting pregnant) and this video helped me greatly. The story of Queen Catherine and Queen Anne's struggles to conceive/carry to term their babies has always tugged at my heart.

[@sarahudson108]

Good luck sending you baby dust , but remember there are more then one way to have a family, Adoption is also a option if things don't work out . I was lucky after IVF treatment I managed to have a healthy daughter.

[@anneboleynfiles]

Sending you lots if love. We've been through it. Our daughter was conceived by ICSI. It's so very hard to go through fertility problems.

[@nenisguevaragomez8122]

Excuse me, what's ​@@anneboleynfiles ICSI?

[@alisonbrowning9620]

I am barren, IVF failed, I am now 57 and had to have a hysterectomy, It is horrible.

[@anneboleynfiles]

@@alisonbrowning9620 I'm so very sorry. Sending you love.

[@onemercilessming1342]

My mother was a nurse. When she worked in a hospital, the Roman Catholic nurses would quietly baptize babies born in extremis as soon as they were brought into the world. Yes, those baptisms are considered valid.

[@marlenemacphail1648]

We labour and delivery nurses could baptize babies dead or alive (1980s to 2010s I did OB). Awkward but we made it simple and meaningful for families. Luckily, most people didn’t go in for that stuff.

[@tessat338]

@@marlenemacphail1648 Yeah, my mom was doing this in the late 1950s as well when she worked in labor and delivery.

[@marlenemacphail1648]

@@tessat338 they still do, but very few people are that Catholic-y anymore

[@sophiegray4987]

I baptized my own daughter. She was born poorly, she's almost 3 now but it's still something parents can do that holds validity

[@onemercilessming1342]

@sophiegray4987 So long as you're a Roman Catholic in good standing in the Church. Protestants pretty much do what they want.

[@avalonkerr8332]

I really appreciate these videos on little-explored, but often important topics, in the daily lives of people from history. Please keep them coming! I realize some, like this one, covers a sad subject, but I believe it humanizes these people, who lived so long ago, for us today.

[@miladyblue5077]

I think the love, mercy, and compassion Jesus was famous for would have intervened, and NO child, either a stillbirth or a miscarriage, or perhaps even an aborted child, would have been cast from His presence. After all, it was God's Will that called the child from the mortal world, and I don't think a child thus ordained to not live in this world, would have been banned from entering Heaven. So the heavy burden of guilt is the fault of mortal misunderstanding, NOT from God's unkind rejection of children He had called from this world.

[@user-yi7mg5ig6l]

Thank you for addressing this sensitive subject with such gentleness and Grace. How horrid for a mother to have delivered a Stillborn child then to know it could never see the Savior who gave His own life so that it could live in Eternity with Him. My paternal Grandmother had a little girl before my Dad was born in 1921 that was stillborn. She always referred to my unknown aunt as “the baby that died”. I’d like to imagine that when Grandma died in 1984, her precious little girl ran to greet her in Heaven with arms open wide! Your care of these kinds of subjects is so kind.

[@maryellencook9528]

Even now, here in Texas, we nurses can do emergency baptisms if the parents request it.

[@tondriasanders6306]

Bless you for your compassion and the love you give to these special babies and their parents 💜

[@helene4397]

I think where I live anyone in my church can give emergency baptism IF the priest cannot arrive in time.

[@maryellencook9528]

@helene4397 it's that way in a lot of places, I think.

[@onemercilessming1342]

Happy Easter to you.

[@DipityS]

Those poor women - all the women back then - the horrific loss they must have suffered over and over again. There was always that common sense belief that women were hysterical and not to make decisions for themselves or others because you couldn't trust them to be logical or balanced. I do wonder if part of that was maybe built on thousands of years of ignored mental health issues of losing child after child. We know more these days about how devastating that loss can be, and how much support mum's - and dads - need to reach any balance. Then they also piled on the mum with the guilt - it being her fault - which hasn't gone even now. Then this baptism belief also thrown in - the absolute despair mums might have felt ☹

[@thehistory_student]

A very interesting video but definitely a very sad subject matter. I learnt a few things I didn’t know. Thank you ❤

[@MaryCarnes-ey1gq]

Thank you for the information. I had never thought of those circumstances. I am not Catholic so I never thought about it. You always have very interesting information. I like the Tudor era. I just was not aware of so many details. Thank you

[@dozergetscrafty]

I lost a son during birth. Every year my husband and I take that day off and spend it together. It's our special day. 3 years later we almost lost our youngest son. In the exact same way. But he's now 8 years old. I believe his big brother was looking out for him. ❤

[@anneboleynfiles]

I'm so sorry for your loss but also so pleased that your youngest survived.

[@heatherjones5983]

Thank you for the educational and compassionate video ❤

[@debbimeyersbrant5752]

I'm 60 years old and I have been asked many times how many children I have, and my answer to them is I have seven in heaven which I call my seven roses and I have two that walk this Earth

[@anneboleynfiles]

Bless you.

[@debbimeyersbrant5752]

@@anneboleynfiles thank you, blessings to you and yours

[@alancumming6407]

Many thanks Claire for this interesting broadcast. I am ashamed to say I hadn't considered the fate of the lost children. I wonder if the Church Laws of 1553 were not passed because of Mary's accession to the throne? - Elizabeth Cumming.

[@sassytbc7923]

Thank you Claire

[@Kasamira]

Sad subject but still a very interesting video

[@carliepower1088]

I'm not Religious, but Spiritual so in my heart, I believe their Spirits went on to a better place. Same as Adults and Souls ❤

[@annettefournier9655]

I definitely would have been burned for heresy for my compassion .

[@livesouthernable]

Beautifully done. Thank you

[@theresalaux5655]

Happy Easter Claire! ❤ xo

[@francesshea6633]

Thank you for your knowledge and sensitivity on this subject. God bless all the babies.

[@sixeses]

Thanks Claire

[@sassytbc7923]

I was raised Catholic. I never understood how an innocent baby who died during birth could be sent to Hell…not by a loving God. Were those who were stillborn able to be baptized when born?

[@anneboleynfiles]

They were only supposed to be baptised if they were alive at birth, but I expect many midwives pretended that they were.

[@glen7318]

they are not sent to Hell but to Limbo.

[@kazoolibra7322]

So very interesting, claire. Thank you❤❤❤

[@anneboleynfiles]

You are so welcome!

[@autumnpeacock4156]

They believed that a baby who by bad luck didn’t get baptized was sent to the edge of Hell? That is so sad. So many poor mothers believing their babies were all alone in the dark.

[@lucieramirez1378]

I loved your presentation. Everything you said brought back many memories. After class we would Baptize our non Catholic friends in the bathroom when we were in first grade. Thank you.😂🎉

[@iamauntmeem]

My aunt having 'committed suicide' was refused burial at my grandparents' Catholic Church and in the Catholic Cemetery. My grandparents found another Catholic Church that would do her funeral and bury her in the Catholic Cemetery. They promptly changed churches. So there were different viewpoints on Catholic Doctrine even in the mid-1940s. Martin Luther changed that.

[@heatherprice588]

As a Christian not Catholic I believe babies are born sinless they have not committed any sin we cannot transfer our sin to someone else only Jesus was able to take our sin away at the cross.❤

[@kimberlypatton205]

How could one not have a heart? Especially another woman who’s there to help another.. women do come together with love at such times because we know.

[@brenmanock]

In Catholic school we always asked those questions

[@rycoli]

❤❤❤❤

[@sarahmoulder500]

I always thought prince Henry died of SIDS 😢

[@debbiedalton8846]

❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@rebeccalock4900]

I would imagine considering how devout Katherine was she would have had her babies baptised. As for Anne I thought her still birth was premature I’m not sure if she would have been able to have them baptised but I believe if the chance was there she would have also took this as she was very committed to her faith xx

[@babydollchaosable]

Do you have a video about Mary I coronation? I’ve always wondered what she wore.

[@anneboleynfiles]

Yes, here is one on her coronation - kzbin.info/www/bejne/aKjMkH5tbct4prs - and here is one on her coronation procession - kzbin.info/www/bejne/f6exonVvhbmZppI

[@pollydolly9723]

This makes me so angry! Poor parents! My Irish Catholic Nan practiced “the old ways” because she knew the church offered no real support to girls or women. Bless the bones of brave women!

[@onemercilessming1342]

It is much different today. Before Vatican II, if a couple divorced, they were excommunicated. This practice, and others, were discontinued post Vatican II. As a divorcee, I taught the First Holy Communion class until some older church members objected. My confessor and I talked at length about this. Although, so long as I was living according to Roman Catholic tenets, there was no obstacle to my continuing to teach those preparation classes, he and I agreed that, if my continuing was proving to be an obstacle to others, then I would step away from the position. Eventually, I also stepped away from teaching Children's Gospel to the youngest children during the priest's homily at Mass as well.

[@marlenemacphail1648]

Organized Christianity is ridiculous and cruel. Jesus Christ wouldn’t walk into a church if He was here today!!!!

[@joan279]

​@@onemercilessming1342 Absolutely vile man-made religious laws that make the innocent suffer the same as the guilty. If a man divorced his wife but she did not want a divorce, she was excommunicated from Catholic Church too even though the divorce was not sought by her. If excommunicated you cannot receive communion or the sacraments. Therefore you cannot receive confession or forgiveness of your sins or the Last Rites when dying. Therefore you cannot go to Heaven if you are excommunicated - eventhough you didn't commit the sin 😑

[@--enyo--]

How were the names of Mary, Elizabeth, and Edward chosen? The baby talked about in this video called Henry is more obvious, but is there any record on how or why the other names were chosen? I assume after relatives, but wasn’t sure exactly which ones, or if anything else (e.g. dates or meanings, astrology etc) was also considered.

[@sarahudson108]

Mary after Henry's sister and Mary from the bible , Elizabeth after her grandmother Elizabeth of York although Anne Boleyns mother was also named Elizabeth, Edward because his birthday 12thOctober was Saint Edwards day his uncle on Jane's side was also called Edward . Even now the royals are very careful when picking baby names !.

[@anneboleynfiles]

Names often came from godparents or relatives, or the father's name.

[@annhenderson5632]

My late mother was a midwife and did her training at the beginning of the 1950s. She told me that midwifes can baptise babies at birth if needed. I don't know what the rules are now but this was still true in the 1970s and 1980s. She never had to do this all the time she was working as a midwife.

[@anneboleynfiles]

I know that in the Tudor era, midwives were given permission to do so and parents could also do it in an emergency.

[@glen7318]

@@anneboleynfiles anyone can baptise anyone.

[@joan279]

It wasn't only unbaptised babies that were not allowed to be buried in consecrated ground or allowed into Heaven, it was also the mothers if they died before being 'churched' - purifying the mother. At one point, (upto 1300s, 1400s if not later) a mother could NOT be churched until 40 days after giving birth to a son or 80 days after giving birth to a daughter. If the mother died (many, many women did NOT survive childbirth or childbirth fever after) she was 'unclean' and 'in a state of sin'. Even upto 1960s a mother was 'churched' 4-6 weeks or 40 days after giving birth and could not enter a Church or participate until after being 'churched'. The Catholic Church officially dropped the practice of churching in the late 1960s after the Second Vatican Council. However, some more traditional Catholic cultures still practice the ritual to this day as do some Eastern Orthodox religions (without such severe consequences for the mothers). Although 'churching' has mainly been dropped by RC church, at baptism there is a 'blessing' for the mother, and a 'blessing' for the father - the 'blessing' for the mother is twice as long ... !

[@spiralrose]

Born of water and the spirit. We are born in the waters of birth.

[@katiekress7287]

I don’t believe in limbo but the babies weren’t alive when born if it’s a stillbirth or miscarriage. I had 2 miscarriages and never worried about their little souls.

[@christinadaykin3893]

This is why I am not religious baby’s and young children are innocent 😇

[@gerrimilner9448]

if you are not born, how can you be born in origional sin. i hope my lost babies are in heaven as my living ones dont want to go there

[@charlottar0403]

Dunno. Here (N Italy) they shot up holy water into the womb during difficult births and the midwife baptized the child, and the child was buried and went to heaven....

[@alecblunden8615]

The doctine of "priginal sin" is the raving of Augustine of Hippo. It was never given the least credence by Judaism, which may be expected to be the experts on the topic.

[@sarahmoulder500]

I had 2 miscarriages, i hope they are in heaven 🙏 the god I believe in wouldn't send an innocent baby to hell.

[@kristinesharp6286]

There is no Catholic doctrine that says unbaptized babies go to hell or limbo. Baptism is needed, please hasten to baptize. You can do it at the birth.

[@symon3304]

I think you're confusing Tudor Royal real politick which was pragmatic and savage within their family and the genuine warm reality of Tudor subjects. Dr Ruth Waring and Antonia Wier has wrote about this. This is a bit of an exploitative video.

[@gill8779]

Oh dear Claire, this video has caused a lot of religious opinions, some not so nice. Doesn't bother me as I am not religious, but I have never seen any comments other than being respectful on your videos. On another note I must admit I have always thought about what happened to the poor dead babies. I assumed they were baptised quickly & buried but it was kept quiet.

[@anneboleynfiles]

It's a religious topic and an emotive one, so it was bound to provoke some passionate comments. They say never to discuss religion, don't they, but you can't look at Tudor history without considering religion, it wasn't even just a part of daily life then, it was integral.

[@gill8779]

@@anneboleynfiles I absolutely agree it was.

[@DM-lc2cf]

Such ridiculous twisting of the will of God.... all children go to heaven.

[@blueblack3591]

Absolutly!

[@onemercilessming1342]

No one is ridiculing your beliefs, if, indeed, you have any. Kindly refrain from ridiculing those held by the Roman Catholic Church and the 1.4 billion of Roman Catholics worldwide.

[@DM-lc2cf]

@@onemercilessming1342 The word of God, the Bible is not a belief, it is truth. Twisting by men to their own thoughts and schemes has been going on for a long time. God loves his creation, he does not will anyone to be lost, including children, who are precious to him. Sprinkling with water, burying or not burying in "holy" ground has, thankfully, no effect on them going to heaven to be with their creator.

[@onemercilessming1342]

@@DM-lc2cf Who are you to dictate to others what to believe or think? You're no one. There are other sacred writings than the Protestant Bible. The Talmud, for instance. The writings of Josephus. The Dead Sea Scrolls. The Apochrypha. An educated person would NEVER dictate to another as you are attempting to do. So run along. You're being ignored.

[@DM-lc2cf]

@@onemercilessming1342 Giving my opinion just as you are. You are making a lot of assumptions yourself that I am "Protestant." God Bless an protect those babies and mothers and families that have been so ill-treated by the dictates of men who think they are speaking God's will.

[@user-kf6lu4dn2r]

TLDR they died

[@animallover6645]

Well I really don’t believe miscarriage babies have souls, or even exist. Stillbirth are different.

[@anneboleynfiles]

Personally, I believe that they have souls from the moment of conception, but that's just me.

[@kmaggie924]

@@anneboleynfilesbeautifully said 💫❤

[@tsarina24honolulu87]

How cruel

[@tsarina24honolulu87]

The pope said even dogs have souls.