The Fate of Modern Wonka

[@LackingSaint]

hey I forgot to mention Zoe Bee also did a great wonka video and you should watch it kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZpvFeKyClt5-oKc and yes of course if they do adult wonka again the correct choice is jeremy strong edit: because people took the bit too literally, I actually barely moderate this comments section, so have fun you animals please help me fund my chocolate factory: 💰 PATREON @ www.patreon.com/jacksaint 🔴 KZbin @ kzbin.info/door/dQKvqmHKe_8fv4Rwe7ag9Qjoin 👛 TIPS @ ko-fi.com/lackingsaint Second Channel: www.youtube.com/@officalwordfromjack Bluesky 🦋 lackingsaint.bsky.social Instagram 📷 instagram.com/lackingsaint Twitch 🎮 www.twitch.tv/lacksaint Discord 🗣 discord.gg/pf5PXAzv8V TikTok 🎞 www.tiktok.com/@jacksaintreal

[@viniciusdantas4275]

I think the best adult Wonka would be Ryan Gosling, if the intent is to do some Gene Wilder style stuff again. Has Jeremy Strong done any extrovert parts? But I see it would work if Jeremy played the son of a totally insane Willy Wonka played by someone like Christopher Walken, and they have a weird dinamic where he wants to be the successor while Wonka announces the chocolate ticket thing to find the next CEO

[@wezers]

Oh God I was liking the critique on the movies and Hollywood/Corporations itself but the man brought "wokeness" into it. Swear to God, people that think like this call everything woke including if they have a single gay/trans character in a sea of straight characters. The Right is out here legitimately banning Holocaust books and Black History books and saying they're woke while even Trump (who is a dick head) calls out that the word woke is being overused. Corporations do whatever they can to make money. I think the overworked and underpaid employees are a more important topic than them putting a character to satisfy a certain group. No? We have to start a stupid culture war? Awesome

[@u-neekusername4430]

Totally off actual topic but thank you so much for helping me figure out why I got all those notices (or whatever they're called) from Rutgers staff in April to my long forgotten Linkedin account associated w/long unused email account from a country I'd left 16yrs ago! ...that I didn't see until YESTERDAY when I went to clear out emails n shut it down! ....ALSO managed to notice that I somehow wasn't subscribed, but I swear I did when I found you recently 1-2 months ago (virtually everyday of my current life is the same, it blurs w/o recorded data, pathetic but true & I can't even blame it on drugs). Anyways sorted now, but wouldn't be the 1st YT unsubscribed me to someone I KNOW I was subscribed to. BASTARDS! ❤‍🩹

[@michelehamilton961]

You got a subscriber. Great content.

[@robbiesmith8055]

God bless queen Zoe for making me think about Willy Wonka for the first time since I was 12 and go... wait hang on what the f-

[@mantidream8179]

My main issue is that they are trying to turn Willy Wonka into a protagonist. He is more like a god than a man, a morally gray force of nature. He is inherently difficult to relate to

[@EmiStar070]

THIS!!! He's not supposed to be someone you related to

[@NoriMori1992]

Exactly. Charlie needs to be the viewpoint character, because he's normal and relatable. Wonka is just something that happens to him.

[@justjackorwhatever]

unless your mrbeast

[@chickenwinna]

I can't help but be reminded of rick and morty.

[@edenconeby8227]

@@chickenwinnadon’t you dare insult Roald Dahl like that. What did he even do??? Why does he deserve that???

[@SpiralAnimationssssss]

Willy wonka is meant to provoke your imagination. He’s never meant to have a backstory, he’s literally meant to be mysterious, kind of scary and very whimsical with no way of knowing where he got his ideas from. I don’t see the point of making a prequel apart from playing on nostalgia for money

[@hammer12482]

Did you ever read the second book? It's the entire oompa loompa backstory

[@MarsheIIo]

so hes like the joker basically

[@jackalexande]

@@MarsheIIo such a weird comparison but you're right

[@kindnessfirst9670]

Are you seriously accusing Hollywood investors of wanting to make a profit?

[@darlenmontano2917]

And purple guy

[@jamesjoe2048]

I can't get over the fact that wonka discovered the oompa loompas in the trailer. In the books, he doesn't discover the oompa loompas until he starts the company, perfects his craft, and then shuts it down for years due to spies. If he has the oompa loompas since the start, it breaks the whole timeline of the books. Him shutting down the factory and firing everyone was the main reason why people were so excited, because nobody had seen inside the factory for years. Curiosity was powerful.

[@AngryNerdBird]

As a general rule, you should expect an adaptation to change some things. This can mean rewriting the original backstory, character motivations, etc. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, because sometimes changes work really well for the kind of story the movie is going for. I'm not talking about Wonka specifically, just in general. I'll need to see more about this movie before I can form any real opinions on it.

[@Artsificial]

At this stage, it has to be something else than just ignorance. Hollywood/Amazon/Apple et al are deconstructing everything and throwing out Brundlefly movies that totally miss or even invert the original work's moral payload. I say it is on purpose.

[@calypselle2254]

@@AngryNerdBird ok but they literally broke the whole books timeline with that, like the original book doesnt even work if his backstory was like this i have to wonder what roald dahl would think of this. it seems disrespectful to his memory.

[@bigpauliep6992]

​@@calypselle2254Good Omens 2 is a thing now. Even authors are making cash grabs through bastardised abominations of their work. Anything and everything has a dollar value attached to it : even integrity.

[@calypselle2254]

@@bigpauliep6992 well roald dahl cant make money off of this because hes dead... and if you watched the video you're commenting on he also criticized the adaptation of his work

[@dustinhickey3473]

Gene wilders Wonka wasn’t just whimsical and cartoony, he portrayed wonka as an unhinged psychopath and I love it.

[@theorderofthehog5984]

Even tho it wasn’t even close to how willy wonka actually is

[@ovormotssetgetsiin6359]

I saw it as a child trapped in an old body. The viciousness in my peers from 1969 well into young adulthood, it was obvious to see that children are vicious. My Mom would say stupid things like "They're just jealous." Sure, Mom. My baby was just learning how to walk, when my sister brought her kid to my home; he was exactly 9mos older than my baby. Every time she tried to hug her cousin, he pushed her away/down...HARD. My sister and her best friend thought it was funny. Would it be funny if I did that to HIM? (Like Wonka would?) Finally, I threw them out. He saw her trying to walk and to get balance her little hands were on the floor and that little prick FLEW from the hallway to come over and try to stomp her hands. I lifted him by the back of his jacket--hoping that I got some hair in it--and literally threw him at my sister. "Not so funny now, is it?" (Something Wonka would say, I'm sure.) That was the last time we saw them till they were about 10yo. He was a much nicer kid by that time. Kids are nasty. Wonka was operating on their level.

[@imsunnybaby]

he is the superior wonka

[@robbiewalker2831]

@@theorderofthehog5984 Compared to the Book, although the 1970s film did have Fizzy Lifting Drinks (which is actually from the book), some would say the Tim Burton Wonka was more like that.

[@quantumblauthor7300]

​@@ovormotssetgetsiin6359sounds less like kids suck, and more like that one was being raised by your sister

[@capn_toad]

i just physically can't see willy wonka as a young man. he's an eccentric crazy old man and he's always been that way. he was never an infant he just appeared in the world one day as a full adult in a tailored purple suit.

[@octochan]

Despite Gene Wilder being the best Wonka on screen, I thought even he looked too young the first time I saw that film.

[@capn_toad]

@@octochan fully agree. none of the wonka adaptations have made him old enough. he needs to have white hair and a manic, deeply wrinkly face

[@banquetoftheleviathan1404]

PeeWee Herman Mr Magorium gang

[@MrHendrix17]

When the midwife reached down to catch the newborn they were greeted with a firm handshake

[@GlitzPixie]

I could see a young Wonka if he was a very different version of the character. This new movie doesn't seem like it put real thought into how someone really turns themself into myth

[@clarkem.5269]

Every character doesn’t need a backstory, sometimes stories are vague for a reason.

[@Ishbikes]

Well it depends. The movie “There will be blood.” The first 30 minutes told you everything you know about what type of man we’re dealing with. On the other hand, a origin can work if it’s pulled off like “Joker.”

[@singingway]

YESSSSS!!!! The essence of folktales -- broad strokes which can be interpreted many ways.

[@epiccollision]

@@Ishbikes but that was the origin of a "Joker" not "the Joker"...there's no Batman.

[@magneto44]

mystery is always more interesting

[@cbender128]

Unsure if it was a joke or not, but I also thought Radcliff would better capture the Wonka energy.

[@worrywirt]

So true, he has that unhinged glint in his eye.

[@whatcanidooo]

No he would have 100% have been perfect it’s genuinely such a shame

[@AmandaabnamA]

Dude! He has only made quirky unhinged movies the last decade. What a great idea, too bad he isnt Hollywood's it boy

[@egg_bun_]

Omg yes. YES

[@spectre9340]

I support this because Radcliffe only takes jobs that he thinks would be interesting. Chalamet apparently doesn't even have to audition for his roles 😭

[@varethedemon]

Maybe a movie showing Wonka as kid friendly and idealistic would work... if it was a movie about the slow change of heart and mind into an ideal self interest, a rejection of the world that wasn't as fantastical as he wanted, and a withdrawal into his factory, where he could continue being the "dreamer of dreams."

[@ThePonderer]

Honestly I find this teaser so repulsive precisely because of how sappy and whimsical it portrays Wonka himself. Just completely removes any interesting or compelling element of the character.

[@NoiseDay]

The manufactured emotional music makes me physically sick.

[@the-postal-dude]

yeah agreed. it looks visually good, but why do we need a sympathetic backstory for wonka??? it's plain stupid. he's explicitly shown to be a bad person.

[@donny1960]

See , to me is more interesting. His later self is not the same...... Interested what might have changed. What his Character Arc is from this story to the one we all know....... But most people now just like to complain that anything changed from what they are comfortable with....... has to be bad. Sad.

[@the-postal-dude]

@@donny1960 this movie seems more interested in making him out to seem heroic and sympathetic rather than showing his downfall tho

[@donny1960]

@@the-postal-dude What "downfall"...... He becomes World Greatest Chocolate maker in original story. Again. What "this Movie" is interested in is unknown. It has not been shown yet. Prejudging is a fools game...... And even if it is great. We should not watch it because Tim did not have to audition...... ha ha. Lets find 1000000 other reasons to throw shade. World needs more of that.

[@slashercat8649]

I firmly believe that Willy Wonka has to be a little insane and evil. He's the antagonist and arguably the villain for most of the story, and Charlie serves as kind of a Final Girl as Wonka slowly picks off the children while their parents watch in horror. Not that he needs to be completely irredeemable or totally evil, but just of enough to be kind of scary and unnerving whenever he's onscreen.

[@autobotstarscream765]

Not just picks them off, but in ways that still capture the dark side of the imagination to this day! 💥

[@freman007]

Wonka does not "pick anyone off". He warns the children not to do something, they insist on doing it, something bad (but not fatal) happens to them. Dahl had a simple moral message. "Be the good kid, or else."

[@bethanyeschen-pipes3667]

@@freman007 He deliberately introduces the kids to a series of booby-traps designed specifically to appeal to . Yeah, he's terrifying.

[@CocoBoo_Anti-Oblivious]

And the remake with Johnny Depp did the best at portraying that 😌.

[@blehh_mae]

i wouldnt call him evil but he definetely is insane, he doesnt Try to kill anyone or be a bad person, hes just so insane that his only reaction to kids dying or being hospitalized is "oh well! i Did warn them though"

[@peteralfredhess]

Tim Cham isn’t the problem with the Wonka prequel. The Wonka prequel existing at all is the problem with the Wonka prequel. Take a character/performance that is best remembered for being an endearing/frightening enigma…. and then try to explain their backstory and how they become the person they are? Not a great plan

[@CinnamonGrrlErin1]

The Burton movie wasn't perfect, but the backstory they had in that worked very well for me, especially since Sir Christopher Lee played his father.

[@dustafee666]

It's an even less interesting (somehow) Cruella

[@flamingpi2245]

stop being mean to him he’s beautiful!!!

[@bugjams]

Really interested to see how his young black partner (shown off multiple times in the trailer) is going to react to him adopting and enslaving Oompa Loompas. Or, rather, what stupid re-write of Oompa Loompas they're going to do to make them totally Wholesome 100 and not problematic at all.

[@TheNumnutRandomness]

@@bugjams Waiting for them to pull a JKR. "No you see, as a race, they are COMPELLED to serve. It physically PAINS them not to be servants. What, do you want them to SUFFER?"

[@kennethd4958]

We may have not got the best choice for Wonka in Timothy but we dodged a HUGE bullet by not having Ezra Miller in the role.

[@kerim.peardon5551]

So did all the child actors.

[@rpghorrorfan879]

That’s an understatement, Timothy is a Zionist

[@voodoomoth]

@@kerim.peardon5551💀 vile but true

[@UkeShrum]

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”w

[@FTWSamFisher]

I mean hes only slighty more messed up in the head than Willie Wonka

[@jeepmega629]

I will never understand why Hollywood always has to revive decade old properties to make horrible remakes/reboots

[@devforfun5618]

nostalgia sells, basically a trap so parents take their kids to see the remake, disney used to just re-release the same movies in theaters after 10 years, but piracy and copyright limits made it useless, so now they remake the movies because it kinda of resets the copyright

[@selty]

IP renewal, brand recognition and it does gets bums in seats- it’s a sure bet and those guys in the high tower are investors not artists

[@basicbitch8874]

Money

[@cloudthief8918]

Because they're just so darn innovative

[@erlendvageskar3356]

💰

[@hoarsebard]

Gene Wilder really was the perfect casting for Willy Wonka. He makes him out like a mad magician. He's absolutely a genius, and he's a reclusive misanthrope. It's what sells the magic of the movie, he is the kind of guy who would mix his chocolate in a fanciful way like a waterfall in a room made entirely out of candy. Willy Wonka should be more than a little bit unhinged, or else none of the magic of it tracks at all. No normal person would do the things Wonka does, so Wonka cannot be normal, he can't even be SLIGHTLY unhinged, he has to be a complete madman who's very good at hiding it.

[@Alex-cw3rz]

Ironically not for Roald Dahl he hated Gene Wilders portrayal.

[@kriskenard]

WELL FUCKING SAID

[@TonberryQueen]

I remember even having a bit of a crush on Wonka because traits like madness, intelligence and a sharp wit were always attractive to me, even as a kid.

[@drewgehringer7813]

@@Alex-cw3rz I mean who DIDN'T Roald Dahl hate, let's be honest? His wife and kids, I guess?

[@womunculus]

@@drewgehringer7813 nah the articles said he hated them too

[@parsak.sadjadi3763]

22:37 - bro made the right call with that follow-up sentence...

[@Matt__B]

Nothing could ever encapsulate Willy Wonka capitalism any more than Gene Wilder saying "You get nothing. You Lose. Good day sir."

[@TheDanishGuyReviews]

And of course "You know what happened to the kid who got everything he ever wanted? He lived happily ever after."

[@1SpicyMeataball]

"You will own nothing and be happy."- the communist credo Why don't you move down to Cuba or North Korea. Tell me how it goes.

[@littlebitsalterego5811]

thats actually one of my favorite lines. when he shouts it at the guys its just awesome.

[@jasonninja55]

​@@MomeGnomeHoly shit how does that boot taste?

[@Drako9823]

@@MomeGnome Some people just can't make a critical point without pulling in their uninformed political opinions, I guess.

[@dstinnettmusic]

Daniel Radcliffe would have been the best choice for a new Wonka imo. He is probably the only person who can capture the simultaneous whimsy that comes from living such a lucky life while also having this cynicism brought on by literally every person seeing you as an object, a puppet on strings that serves to make people remember happy times from childhood but is not meant to have any internal life at all.

[@chuckbatmangaming]

I think he's the only person who could live up to the bar Gene Wilder set, because his passion for taking weird and unhinged roles and breathing life into them is such that he would never take on a role like Willy Wonka unless he was allowed to embrace everything that character entails. Put simply, this version of Wonka we're getting is one Daniel Radcliffe probably wouldn't even want to portray.

[@nathandrake5544]

That's actually a genius casting

[@vespernight4236]

If I had to sit down and watch a willy Wonka prequel movie I'd love for it to have Daniel Radcliffe as Wonka, maybe originally starting out as a kind saccharine bright eyed boy like Charlie, with that unhinged side present in the background. And have the movie be a downfall and rise up. With his buisness taking off but himself changed, that unhinged side taking over more and more as he continues to push and push what he can make. The whole 'success but a what cost' thing

[@nathangamble125]

It's funny how Daniel Radcliffe played a character that was treated as "the chosen one", thrust into fame, and expected to live up to people's expectations of ability and success; and then became that himself.

[@Vaquix000]

@@chuckbatmangaming Daniel Radcliffe's a great actor, but I don't see anybody else as the character but Gene. There doesn't need to be a bunch of people playing the same character - Daniel could do great playing a similar character, doesn't have to be the same or competing with Gene, he can do his own thing

[@MadameTamma]

Personally I always saw Wonka in a similar vain to how I saw Yubaba the bathhouse owner from Spirited away. Although Yubaba is a lot more crotchety. They’re both antagonists who are not to be defeated necessarily but to be overcome. They're pragmatic, callous business owners. They’re magical tricksters who won’t think twice about crushing anyone who would harm what’s theirs but at the very least will stick to the bargain made with the protagonists. They’re not punished at the end for their actions but you don’t really care that they are anyway because you recognize that they're at least fair (Not to their workers but to the protagonists)

[@cyberwolf_1013]

Oooh, excellent comparison. Yubaba, like Wonka, wasn't necessarily the "bad guy" just the entrepreneur and business owner. Hardline, not heartless, but selfish I think. Ghibli does their antagonists so very well in that regard.

[@ShoutoutToTrees]

Perfect comparison, i love this perspective!

[@cRAVEtrance]

I had a dream one night where I was going through the Wonka factory with the rotten kids, and Wonka got so fed up with how spoiled the kids were that he started actively endangering the kids. The Chocolate River Mermaids dragging a child into the river was a particularly chilling note ...

[@saanasalonen8684]

please tell me more :D

[@Noursinette_]

yeah tell me more too

[@midgematic8659]

No but why would this fit perfectly in a Wonka story? The chocolate mermaids would sing a song about how amazing living in the factory is, to abandon their parents and to play with the mermaids instead. How stupid it was that the kids had to listen to the adults and go to school, do their homework, be kind and respectful when they could just jump off the boat and run (swim) away with the funny silly chocolate mermaids. Tale of chocolate lagoons, sprinkle geysers, donut floaties and candy snorkles. A child finally breaks away from their mother’s firm grip to jump into the river, *all* of the mermaids following suit, jumping after them and dragging the child under the melted chocolate. The boat leaves the scene with the Oopma Loomas throwing nets and spears into the water, with Wonka saying “Don’t worry, they’ll catch your child soon!” Dammit.

[@saanasalonen8684]

wow. ok! that was eerie and very speficic... you should write a full story of this!@@midgematic8659

[@ayyylmao101]

I deem the dream canon

[@costanzapolastri]

"there is no getting around this: Mr Beast is zoomer Willy Wonka" is a sentence so fundamentally true it broke my brain

[@superplaylists1616]

Idk much about Mr Beast, but his "whimsy factor, while doing oopsies" is on point at least with the whole "mr beast burger" spiel, where he said he'd help restaurants, (which he did) but at the same time failed to properly communicate what a ghost restaurant was, and when people were getting mixed orders or the opposite of what they were asking for, with no way to track down their orders, it just kinda went under the carpet.

[@RedrumZombies]

@@superplaylists1616 He didn't fail to communicate what a ghost restaurant is. And the failed orders is on the "partner" Mr.Beast tried working with and the actual cooks. Do you blame the McDonald Brothers or Ray Croc when McDonald's messes up your Quarter Pounder?

[@vinegar_mince8746]

Mr. Beast and Elon Musk, each one of my younger brothers heros.

[@tumultuousv]

​@@RedrumZombiesI worked in A red robin that did Mr beast burgers. Appearantly we were one of the most accurate and best tasting beast burgers, at least from surveys... we half assed them 30% of the time if we were busy with our actual store. We got mr beast burger shirts (which were white?? Which is terrible in the kitchen.... and also I was not at work the day everyone got a shirt LMAO)

[@superplaylists1616]

@@RedrumZombies Fair point, but I would have liked a more elaborate disclosure, like, "these are random restaurants you are ordering from, that has high chances of mixing your order, or just being mediocre, and also, since they all come from different places, sometimes the restaurant can be irresponsible and place allergenic ingredients on the burgers, without changing the burger's information, which is a crime. Bonus is that you run a small risk of getting food poisoned from this with no way of tracking it back." Because many people were kinda not aware of these facts? But if he said it like that, I dont think many people would have been so eager to buy mr beast burger. Its basically like ordering on burger lottery, you dont know if it comes screwed up or not, and, isnt that a fun time.

[@murkel7634]

One thing that really bothers me about a young Wonka is that being on the older side was a fundamental part of Wonkas character, he locked himself away and fully endulged in his fantasy land for so long that he has become a man child that is only interested in his world and doesn't care at all how the otside world is doing. He is the kind of person who could help people like charlies family, but instead chose to be the person that will fire thousands of employes, likely creating mass poverty himself instead. Him beeing older is important for this. First of all it creates an obvious contrast since it is unusual for an old man to be so child like but most importantly it is important because it makes him more guilty of his own actions. As a young man, like he is in the new movie all his mistakes are alot more exusable but as an experienced entrepreneur, he should have known better, so it really highlights his apathy for his fellow humans.

[@Kryptnyt]

It's also his fear of encroaching death that compels him to seek an heir, of course.

[@chexfan2000]

like all chocolate factory owners, willy wonka is a reprehensible monster who hoards the wealth he earned off the backs of slave labor like a repulsive bloated dragon while hiding the reality of his monstrous actions behind the sugary nature of his product. There were clips circulating on TikTok from a stage production of Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory that kept the songs from the Wilder film but explicitly and unambiguously depicted the unworthy children being violently killed while their parents were forced to watch; quite memorably Wonka instructs an Oompa Loompa to shoot a blow dart at the inflated Violet Beauregard after she is rolled away; there is a loud bang and splattering sound, and her father returns to stage covered in blue viscera and intestines, clutching his daughters severed leg. “She EXPLODED” he screams in horror, prompting Wonka to make a quip. “SHE EXPLODED!!” he shrieks again, spitting chunks of his daughter’s innards out, his mind utterly destroyed from the death of his child, prompting another quip. He repeats the horrifying fact again, and wonka commands an oompa loomla to fetch a shovel and bucket to scrape her remains up so he can FERMENT AND CONSUME IT AS ALCOHOL LATER. Now there are two schools of thought about this version of the play: some find it to be closer to the original vision of the author, and i can’t disagree. Roald Dahl despised children, was racist, and delighted in portraying all but the most submissive and quietly accommodating children as worthy of suffering and death. Where I differ from this school of thought is in the presumption that if the author’s vision is accurately portrayed, the show is de facto Good. I am of the school of thought that this production brought into sharp relief how sickeningly passively evil and unsympathetic Charlie Bucket is, as a character. Like the Germans who sat by, happy to watch their neighbors and friends shuttled to their doom to profit off their discarded possessions, Charlie watches without raising a fuss as unworthy children who dare to express their own desires are murdered. But for Charlie there is no Nuremberg, no, the little shit gets awarded the factory and becomes rich and powerful by virtue of not challenging the murder of his peers. Now add to this the apparently delighted new york theatre crowd recounting with delight how children were brought to every performance, and left well before the end screaming and sobbing, traumatized to the point that the theatre will forever be regarded as a place to be avoided, and I find myself both approving of the revolting portrayal of wonka, and condemning the production as an outright celebration of fascist cruelty. I will add that since any sense of satire was apparently lost on the audience as a whole, I will not entertain any defense of it on those grounds. Satire of fascism that is only recognizable to the already antifascist is worthless, and usually functions as especially insidious propaganda, as it delights and affirms the fascists while making those who claim to oppose fascism believe that it is not only secretly on their side, but that they are cleverer and more worthy for knowing that the explicitly enthusiastic advertisement for fascism is actually (very quietly) mocking fascists. “How do they not understand that it’s SATIRE” they’ll snark, as a handsome and badass character gets everything they want and all opposition is killed while whining effeminately. How indeed. Tl;dr wonka is trash, dahl is trash, that violent broadway revival that existed to horrify children and delight nasty theater millennials is trash, you are probably trash and so am i. get runned over by an chevy everybdoy

[@LinaPoe]

this sounds oddly familiar.. UPD: lol,in the seconds after i read this comment and write mine, this moment of the video appeared 15:04

[@danghegotawptid]

THIS THIS THIS IIIIII CAN'T STAND ITTT

[@JimBobJoeB0b]

...well that was a roller coaster@@chexfan2000

[@saludsinfiltros6854]

Wonka has to have that uncanny valley physique and manners that Timothe doesnt bring to life. My vote goes to Daniel radcliffe

[@eirik5324]

Hear me out... Ted Danson

[@zackmccabe6376]

​@@eirik5324 I could see him as wonka

[@SomaFlly]

@@eirik5324 nah depp already did it, enough remakes for fucks sake

[@funnymeme7521]

Jeremy Allen white

[@i_garfed_on_the_carpet]

tom holland

[@akiranezumiex9657]

Violet's mom: You turned my daughter into a blueberry! Now she'll never be a popular influencer! Wonka: Are you kidding? She'll go viral! Just Google "inflation" some time and you'll see. *Cut to the Oompa Loompa song, filmed vertically like a Tik Tok with a bunch of blushing emojis and obnoxious sounds*

[@tau-5794]

The mom: But I can't have a blueberry as a daughter. How is she supposed to compete!? Veruca: You could make her TikTok famous.

[@Axadn]

🤣

[@RetiredAccount3737]

"On deviant art, She won't even have any competition" Edit: I got curious, there's a whole Blueberry_Inflation tag 💀

[@kuma477]

That is down bad

[@kabhes9040]

Is most of that stuff not caused by that scene to begin with?

[@measleyhuman8431]

Rather than a prequel, I would have loved to have seen a film exploring Charlie stepping into the role of Wonka, because he's not just taking over the factory he's taking the brand and image of Wonka. Maybe it's just me, but seeing a kid from poverty trying to take on the role of Wonka might be interesting, especially if he doesn't meet the worlds expectations of the eccentric chocolate genius. How does Charlie, after Wonka's departure, fill those shoes? I know Willy Wonka is considered the main character by many, and he's also the more recognisable face from the franchise, but Charlie is actually the main and titular character after all. (I haven't read the second book so idk what happens, but after the explanation I heard in this video, I wouldn't even consider using it as material for a sequel unless it wasn't for a new audience and was only for fans of the original books personally.)

[@genericname2747]

The second book takes place in space. Charlie learns how to fight aliens

[@Murhuedur]

We already have Snowpiercer XD

[@t.funkthecoolmunk5472]

There’s a reason why no one ever talks about the sequel because it really was cash grab. It’s a fun read but I couldn’t for the life of me tell you what the message is

[@genericname2747]

@@t.funkthecoolmunk5472 space is cool,and don't do drugs that make you younger

[@rhythmandblues_alibi]

This is a really interesting idea.

[@Dracoboss98]

Gene Wilder absolutely killed it. He perfectly captures what Willy Wonka is about. He’s whimsical, charismatic, and fun to watch, but he’s also an insane, rage-filled slaver who’s completely apathetic toward human life. He’s exactly what you would expect when you cross a billionaire with a genius candy maker.

[@GaijinCreature]

Apparently not according to Ronald Dahl

[@usmanazam449]

No he doesnt. Johnny depp played him as he was supposed to be

[@leilei49-51]

​@@usmanazam449Gene's come closest to the books for me. Depp's was a modern take, which I did not particularly like.

[@tiki_riot]

Gene Wilder Wonka is best Wonka. I SAID GOOD DAY SIR!

[@roelandpeeters931]

@@tiki_riot Gene Wilder was the ONLY Wonka. The rest are poor imitations.

[@roryschussler]

I feel like Arcane did a pretty good job with their "rich inventor who talks about his dreams of helping out the poor and downtrodden with his creations, but ultimately just makes the rich richer and fails to do anything to help the poor because he's too distracted and utterly ignorant about their actual conditions" character.

[@arachnofiend2859]

Especially the part where the moment they criticized him in any way he immediately resorted to beating them with a hammer

[@roryschussler]

@@arachnofiend2859 And they also nailed the "I'm from a comfortably upper-middle-class background and I had my work sponsored by an obscenely wealthy patron, but I'm going to spin that as an inspirational rags-to-riches story" part.

[@ellemilsomart]

Arcane did do that brilliantly, come to think of it

[@inkterp5322]

@@ellemilsomartugh FINE. I’ll rewatch arcane again. Sigh. How dare u make me do this definitely not out of my own free will and this was definitely not the comment that finally pushed me over the edge to do so

[@PunchLine213]

⁠​⁠@@inkterp5322 omg tragic, guess I’ll have to watch it again too, out of solidarity, obviously, so sad, what a shame

[@Freelancer4tehwin]

Dahl nails it in a way: You have to take Wonka sharper. Take him to the edge. I think he under estimated the extent to which, especially for a younger audience member, Wilder brought a serious and scary aspect to Wonka. The boat scene is genuinely terrifying. The way he hits the girls, and shows no human empathy, and has this tremendous capacity for rage with Charlie at the end is vital. Timmy boy is very, very, very unlikely to bring that. He can't crawl down someone's throat with the power of his temper and strangle their soul. Wilder could.

[@charlesfaure1189]

Wonka has empathy. He just has no empathy for rotton people, which is most of them.

[@emilydurkee8664]

They aren't rotten, they are just people

[@TenthSgtSnipes]

He’s literally a factory owner running off slave labour in the middle of a depression set around the early 1900s I would say. He’s meant to be a madman in a bleak setting, and while his factory breaks the setting, him as a person fits in there perfectly, the whimsy as a facade to hide that he’s just another factory owner. It’s such a British story, so why every movie is American and whimsical is beyond me

[@chantalsimpendingheartatta9355]

Well said

[@leitnerleitnerleitner]

@@mysteriousfigure1281Oh but bubblegum that mutate people into grotesque blueberry giants were a thing?

[@mollusckscramp4124]

Two words: 'American Exceptionalism'

[@SadisticSenpai61]

@@mysteriousfigure1281 I assumed the movie adaptation took place in the 1950s when the UK was still on rations and struggling financially. But that was just the impression I got when watching the movie. I don't know what the official setting was.

[@RampagingFlippy030]

slave labor? Bruh the oompa loompas got paid in food, they're literally perfectly happy with the arrangement.

[@johndoe35859]

I’m so glad you mentioned the second book, I honestly have never heard anyone mention it when discussing these films. Why keep rehashing this same plot over and over when they have the means to explore a new story?

[@ProfEngywook]

He wasn’t being serious.

[@johndoe35859]

@@ProfEngywook ?

[@ProfEngywook]

@@johndoe35859 He was being sarcastic about that book because it’s a dumb story.

[@johndoe35859]

@@ProfEngywook and Charlie and the Chocolate Factory isn’t?

[@vyomrane1237]

@@ProfEngywook I loved Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator! It had such interesting concepts and material to sift of Roal Dahl's world. At times I feel as though folks like you just didn't love his work such as I had. It's fine, but makes one feel sadder when there was so much to appreciate of it all, only to have it called a "dumb story" by those of your opinion. Such words were to be enjoyed, with characters such as the whimsical Wonka talking all sorts of things related to space, the president, the minus zone, etc. If you wanted to be all "grown-up" oriented about it, why even bother with Dahl's work in the first place?

[@ThePonderer]

Knowing that Chalamet doesn’t have to audition for roles explains so much…

[@mophead_xu]

tbf for his more sombre dramatic roles (dune and bones and all specifically in my head) imo it's still kinda makes sense and pretty fair since he's proven himself to be capable of characters in those wavelengths, which is usually how actors then got offered roles instead of auditioning for it. wonka is just odd though, lol.

[@devforfun5618]

to be fair, Paul Atreides is the ultimate nepo baby

[@TheDevinMT]

Nepo babying our way into a universe devastating jihad?? More likely than you might think

[@jadeknowsbest1674]

Yeah, that's a part of Paul's whole thing (along with pondering whether having a nepo baby as a messiah figure is a good thing).

[@jk3253]

Does it! Because I am under the impression that pretty much every A list actor never needs to audition

[@RetiredAccount3737]

Willy Wonka is basically Jigsaw for kids. He just lets kids walk around in an unsafe candy factory, and risks their lives to teach them a lesson. And to top it all off, he has his slaves sing songs while the kids almost die

[@lessismore8533]

The oompa loompaa aren’t slaves lol. They WILLINGLY work for Wonka

[@elizabethlevesque6978]

My problem with Chalamet’s portrayal (yes we only have a trailer but I’m going off that for now) is that he’s TRYING to be whimsical. Gene Wilder WAS whimsical. That’s the difference. Chalamet is trying, wilder just was, he embodied it. He didn’t need to try, it seemed to come so naturally to him. And I like chalamet I think he’s a good actor, I just don’t think he was the correct casting based on what we’ve seen so far.

[@genericname2747]

Gene Wilder was also completely unhinged. He was like "give me a cane, I'm going to act like I have a limp and then fall down, but actually I'm just pretending. Don't tell the children"

[@TwilightRogue15]

I think that's the main issue with any new take on it - nobody has that whimsy anymore. Relatively few have imagination, and the ones that do tend to go darker (and my own writing is no exception). I don't think we're in a place in culture or history where one can have whimsy or any positive outlook towards the future that's not based solely on a power or success angle, and that in itself is depressing. Having that fact pointed out blatantly in reinterpretations such as this just makes it that much worse and adds to that cultural mental drain.

[@TheSwauzz]

@@genericname2747 You classify that behavior as unhinged? Huh? Gene was establishing Wonka as he saw him. Being underhanded in a silly, almost devilish way, is TOTALLY Wonka. Tim is a fkboi thirst trap that girls obsess over because they are shallow. That's why he's in the role to begin with. They know he has a cult following that will watch anything he's in. They don't care about narrative or him actually doing an awesome job. They just want people in theater seats.

[@Morale_Booster]

The problem for me is that it looks like he's not even trying. Like it's so obvious he is cynical about it... I could be wrong

[@freman007]

@@TwilightRogue15 Yet ironically we live much better today than we did when Wilder made Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

[@pwojo9776]

I saw something online that I think describes the new Wonka movie exactly well. They hired a rabbit to play the role of a hare; for people who don't get the metaphor, hares are to rabbits like what coyotes are to dogs; not exactly feral, but as you get closer it gets clearer that something is wrong here. Gene Wilder's Wonka and Johnny Depp's Wonka, despite being two very different Wonkas, they're both different kinds of unhinged. Wilder's was a more of mad scientist while Depp's was more like the Michael Jackson of the candy world. They emit a kind of unnerving energy, that something is quite off about them but you can't quite tell what. From what we see so far with Timothy Chalomet, I don't really feel that kind of nervousness. If I had to pick an actor who could that sort of unnerving energy while also doing the spectacular showmanship of it, I would pick either Bo Burnham or Chris Fleming; which, while not being really renowned actors, but I feel like with how they each respectively are a bit unhinged the way they articulate and dictate.

[@egg_bun_]

Omg yes, I absolutely love both of your picks, ESPECIALLY Chris Fleming

[@n.m.dimmick194]

Chris Fleming as Wonka is a downright enlightened idea.

[@asho345]

Dave Franco is unnerving af

[@miscelaneasdealguem]

​@@egg_bun_I'm familiar with this rabbit and hare analogy, I believe we got it from the same source. Thought it was a brilliant way to put it too, haha.

[@egg_bun_]

@@miscelaneasdealguem where did you get it from?

[@dravendarkmatter]

Gene Wilder is such a special performer. You can see discovery and plotting behind his eyes, there's always this sense of being tricked, and his whole presence is so embodied and curious. "What will he do next!?" is such a special element to him as an actor. He's so ALIVE. I always got the sense from him that he was a weird rich guy who was living his childhood dreams at the expense of everyone else. I also just think the music, especially "Pure Imagination" is so ominous and whimsical at the same time. He has a sense of drawing you in, wanting to look closer, to lean in and there's a scariness to it. It's such a complicated performance that's supported beautifully by the sounds in the world. There's something about Wonka that is funny and Gene Wilder is just a brilliant comedian, they need a comedian in the role, someone who really understands comedic timing in a physical way. I think Ryan Gosling would have been such an incredible choice, wow.

[@AmandaabnamA]

Gosling is funny, but I don't think he would change his body and then it would just be buff /hot wonka and that detracts too. Bringing back Lars type energy would help

[@rooty]

You know he's dead, right

[@jaspervanheycop9722]

​@@AmandaabnamA Gosling plays an absolute whimp in The Nice Guys, and he also gets a lot of physical comedy out of being a weak little manbaby (that bit when Russel Crow's character break his wrist is just comedy gold). And in La-la land he's a dimunutive music nerd. I think he could do Wonka.

[@Pandemonioxo]

Donald glover would’ve brought that unhinged comedian energy so easily

[@Arcin00]

@@Pandemonioxo When Jack said his name i immediately thought about Teddy Perkins and just thought he'd be perfect

[@besupaaa]

When you related it to capitalism it all made sense in my mind. Like "keep living your miserable life but hey, don't give up MAYBE someday you may win the golden ticket and your life will be better! You will be the exception!"

[@hillbillysamurai]

I feel sorry for Timothy. You can tell he wants to a good job in the role and he's bringing his own style to it, but it's doomed to fail

[@ReaperspearX]

Why would you feel sorry for him? He accepted the role.

[@nyengster]

@@ReaperspearX i dont think its easy to get iconic roles. Also, i think he dosn´t just "get it", he properly went to a bunch of auditions

[@ruminationstation4200]

​@@nyengsternope, he infamously does NOT do auditions anymore.

[@bobbyb2749]

@@nyengster It's actually easy for him, Timothee is a nepo baby.

[@nyengster]

@@bobbyb2749 oh okay, i know nothing about hollywood then :D I tought all actors was struggeling to get roles at this point

[@idontwantahandlethough]

I spent like 6 months learning how to do that Wonka tuck-and-roll move; it's actually quite a bit harder than it looks (because you have to tuck and start the roll scarily late). I've never had a chance to use it yet, but I don't regret it one bit.

[@BioGoji-zm5ph]

Well, when Wilder did it, no one knew he was gonna do it. He did it to keep his fellow castmates on their toes. So, you need to make sure no one expects you to do it in order to achieve the same effect.

[@devforfun5618]

like in a graduation, or in a marriage, but you would have to be the wife for greater effect, maybe the father of the wife could work

[@DownTrodded]

Iv done far simpler tricks for far greater effect.

[@LexyconDevil]

Extra challenge: tuck and roll into a death drop.

[@TheDanishGuyReviews]

That's cool. I could never do that. I like my neck in the state it is.

[@nigratruo]

That is what made Gene Wilder a legend: his character were always so interesting, because extreme and with lots of edges. He had this intensity that is so important in acting, he was full of contradictions, part brilliant, part completely mad, part altruistic, part complete uncaring jerk. All good characters are multi dimensional and have contradictions, it is very human quality.

[@Kevin-jb2pv]

Gene Wilder just _got_ the character like nobody else really ever has, and the fact that the whole movie was shot like a documentary makes the whole classic movie feel like you're just capturing snippets of him going about his daily life.

[@Jiub_SN]

Honestly Depo did pretty well too imo, made him seem a bit more out there/crazy while still being whimsical and a bit sinister. Wilder has more subtlety though

[@mrbubbles6468]

By the authors own words Wilder did not get the character. And it’s wildly known that the film not being like the original work is why we will never get adaptations of the sequels.

[@Ebonheart2319]

@@mrbubbles6468 Dahl's vision of Wonka is a Purple Suited Sociopath with an army of Unwillingly Indentured Pigmies gleefully disfiguring children. It really does not lend itself well to the silver screen...

[@plugshirt1762]

@@Ebonheart2319 To be fair that sounds like it would certainly be interesting at the very least lol

[@misty_ravy]

Thats just your nostalgia bias lol

[@geograymon55]

I think a Wonka prequel could work, but you would need an INSANELY creative writer to pull it off. Mainly when it comes to the bizarre backstories he has. When it comes to Wonka's character, yes he should be a young adult brimming with creativity and determination to be the best at his craft, but at the same time, he NEEDS to have his negative traits on full display. Something like showing Wonka as an amazing prodigy, but also show him as a control freak who accepts nothing less than perfection.

[@mollusckscramp4124]

Wonka was never portrayed as a young adult tho, which may be part of why people are so down on Timmy

[@SadisticSenpai61]

He needs to grin cheerfully while handing out pink slips to his workers like he's giving them bonuses and they should be grateful. Then he should turn and skip to his office, humming cheerfully before calling security to remove the fired employees from the premises. And no, they're not allowed to collect their things. If they want their things, they'll need to dumpster dive later (until he gets the incinerator built and then... nope, that stuff's just gone). That's the image in my head that I have of Wonka. The very image of "we're a family" and "work should be fun!" but at the same time, he's working his employees to the bone and firing them for insignificant little things - often things they had no control over.

[@CinnamonGrrlErin1]

To me it looks like they wanted to get more use out of the Fantastic Beasts sets and they took the lazy way out. And well done flipping the bird to the dwarfism community by mutating Hugh Grant instead of casting an actual dwarf actor. I bet Deep Roy would've been more than happy to reprise his role(s).

[@banquetoftheleviathan1404]

Yeah but the guy from game of thrones said and he’s obviously the emperor of all little people. Except when he gets to work with gary oldman, in the roll of a lifetime.

[@tfurxrdftrxrdrdtf]

Yeah its really off putting that they did that

[@crow-jane]

As a dwarf….you could not, if hypothetically I were to decide to go into acting, pay me to portray an Oompa Loopma. It’s right up there with being a Christmas Elf. These roles don’t allow dwarves to play real people, and that they’re still generally the best we can imagine for small actors is fucking depressing.

[@donny1960]

What a stupid comment. Talk about the "easy" was out. I hope you can see....... i am flipping the bird to you. Silly person.

[@caseyw.6550]

​@crowjane2168 yeah, it is. 😣

[@Batchall_Accepted]

Man this video just made me notice how Goslings expressions and mannerisms are actually similar to Wilder

[@VegaNorth]

I think there’s one untapped aspect here that was glossed over: the Purpose for the Lottery. Wonka was trying to find a “worthy” heir to his factory, fortune, and secrets. Sure, morality tale, yeah, and he’s not meant to be relatable, but also, he’s trying to leave one of the kids holding the bag while he flees-or a more charitable version: he realizes someone like him cannot exist so he’s trying to make up for all the terrible things he’s done to become what he is. Leave the problems-or gifts-to the next generation to fix/inherit.

[@locinolacolino1302]

Helps you understand his detachment from humanity too, as much as the 70's Willy Wonka doesn't respect the source material, I admire it as an independent piece of media.

[@saltedsins]

I feel like one of the main issues nobody addresses about the 'whimsy' aspect of the Wonka character is that, while yes, Wonka can be whimsical, his primary and most defining feature is his eccentricity. Eccentric characters stand out for how they express their emotions, not the emotions they feel. When Wonka is whimsical, he's doing it in a cheeky, almost cruel fashion, like he's in on a joke nobody else gets. Chalomet's performance is such a blasé take on the character because it removes that eccentricity entirely, turning Wonka from the somewhat twisted character he is into another carbon-copy 'informed weirdo' with absolutely nothing under the surface. It's like they wanted to make the character as appealing as possible and just gave us a hyped-up dudebro in a weird suit whose only inflections are 'loud' and 'quiet.' Wonka *should* feel a little off-putting and regularly use an unnatural range of tones and pitches in his speech. He's just that kind of guy. Tl/dr: Wonka should be weird and Chalomet can't play eccentricity to save his life.

[@no_peace]

When I was a kid I was actually very scared of him. He's an unsafe person lol. In the books and Wilder movie

[@marshmallow4646]

​​@@no_peacein the second book he gets more unhinged, I don't think I ever finished it because I got kinda upset that Charlie was being treated not great 😅 the first book all the kids that got in trouble were brats, whether you're a good or bad kid you were not safe around him, I don't think Charlie was hurt but the situations he got put it were scary

[@comedyman4896]

Exactly! It's in the name. Wonka should be wonky, and here he just isn't.

[@setheus]

you've got it EXACTLY!! I'd been trying to pin down why exactly I dislike Chalamet so much (other than no-audition thing), and that's what it is. he's good for instagram photography, not for performance, and eccentric characters NEED to be made of fanfare and confetti

[@radioban]

"bro cannot do whimsy" is the funniest review of the trailer

[@sarahwatts7152]

I like the original movie, because the movie is about Charlie and his experiences. Wonka is a symbol and only a symbol in the movie - a nuanced one to be sure, with a nasty dark side - which the newer versions don't do. They make Wonka the main character, when it makes more sense to go through the experience through a child's eyes, someone who is learning as they go, losing innocence.

[@PatLund]

I enjoyed the film for what it was. It is lacking that darker side to Wonka's personality, but I think at least in my mind that this is before Wonka was driven mad by being stabbed in the back by the employees he trusted and spending years alone in his factory living with that reality. This Wonka isn't a crazy old man yet, he's a young man with dreams to make the greatest factory the world has seen. Because of this he is more whimsical.

[@lessismore8533]

Makes total sense

[@1080TJ]

Wonka is like The Wizard of Oz: a beloved children's movie that studios mistake for a potential franchise

[@kittykittybangbang9367]

Which is odd especially when you consider that there's a ton of Wizard of Oz books that haven't been adopted yet, and no Studio has yet to adapt the Charlie and the Chocolate Factory sequel book.

[@redactedredacted6656]

the wizard of oz would be an easy property to make a franchise out of if there wasn't a bunch of corporate drama around who owns the rights to which properties

[@riskopalfi801]

​@@kittykittybangbang9367Actually, I read somewhere, I'm not sure, that Roald Dahl hated the original adaptation so much, that he explicitly requested to NEVER adapt the sequel.

[@FreyaEinde]

And are exclusively stuck on adapting only the first book, when the weirder sequels would be more fun.

[@genericname2747]

Hollywood keeps making stuff up about Oz, instead of adapting the absolutely insane books

[@fractalisomega9517]

Wonka should always be unhinged, sort of like Joker but without the murderous intent... he can still be indifferent to others and their plight, but also still be complex enough to show respect and care for those who seem to "get him"

[@i_i8924]

So The Trickster?

[@rubyy.7374]

Hollywood sees nothing wrong with what Willy Wonka did, so of course they’d want to make him a protagonist!

[@test-bu8xc]

Yeah, as if Warner Brothers would make a commentary on capitalism

[@kimifw58]

Roald Dahl hated the Wilder movie so much that he made it so the book's sequels couldn't be adapted.

[@greenhowie]

I can see The Great Glass Elevator being done justice in a series. Not by the current IP holders of course, but it's possible.

[@elizabethlevesque6978]

Well that make sense with how weird Great Glass Elevator was. I remember my freshman year of college some friends and I were sitting at lunch talking about media and Charlie And The Chocolate Factory came up and I mentioned GGE and I kid you not my one friends DID NOT believe me. She’s like “there’s no sequel??” And I was like “no there is!” And start explaining the plot, space, the Vermicious Knids and she wouldn’t believe me. She was convinced it was fanfiction lolol. Idk if she ever googled it to see but that convo stuck with me because of how vehemently she wouldn’t believe me and in retrospect like…yeah it SOUNDS total.y bizarre and not real. Like a fever dream.

[@ofthewilderwoods]

@@elizabethlevesque6978the knids were terrifying when I read the book as a kid!

[@DownTrodded]

⁠@@ofthewilderwoodsThat goes for everyone of his books they all have B movie joke horror elements, light horror elements, just plain old normal horror elements, and or extreme ultra horror elements that would scar most children.

[@mayagoelman9005]

gee, maybe there is some other reason Dahl hated Russian Jewish immigrant Gene Wilder playing his most famous character besides the acting

[@BrianKoontz]

Mr. Beast isn't so much smiling as opening his mouth wide to consume your soul.

[@DownTrodded]

I require souls to feed the innocent and deserving.

[@saturationstation1446]

he does whats widely known as "the sociopaths smile" .. you can tell its inauthentic and purely for trying to break down any capacity for face value criticism.. "look how happy that guy is, how could anything bad come from that"

[@leighbelk769]

@@saturationstation1446I feel like at this point he just finds that face funny and does it for his thumbnails for the memes it makes.

[@Observer-f5k]

​​​​​@@leighbelk769 Nope a person like Mr.beast won't gonna joke around something that could hinder his analytics and brand. have you seen his interviews and podcast appearances? that guy is really trying to be a perfectionist youtuber everything he or his channel does is to please the algorithm and if his face wide open with cartoonish expression gets the views then he gonna place that everywhere in his channel. he is not the only one who does it every content farming analytical youtuber does this soul-less force positive brand friendly algorithm pleasing repetitive face expression.

[@BrentWalker999]

He has the strangest non smile smile

[@Fanghur170]

So, now the thought of Danial Radcliff playing some version of Wonka is gonna live rent-free in my head

[@lyrajaded]

Speaking of disenfranchised people, one thing that I’ve hated ever since Burton’s take is how much Hollywood has stopped casting little people to play little people roles. Burton found *one guy* and multiplied him a bunch of times. Most studios just cgi an actor smaller. There are talented people who would be amazing in these roles that are pushed out for bigger, able bodied names. How many incredible talents like Peter Dinklage and Warwick Davis are out there and we don’t know them. And this applies to every disability Edit: I don’t think I explained my point clearly. My main point is how commodified disability is in Hollywood. It's often used as oscar bait or comedy or fantasy short hand. There are so many great stories and talents out there and it hurts to keep seeing them used that way over and over and over again. And the same way hollywood execs would rather throw hundreds of thousands of dollars are PR firms and software than pay their goddamn artists, Hollywood would rather slap a head onto a cgi body than take the time to write a story with genuine little person character On another note, Daniel Radcliffe or Elijah Wood would be incredible Wonkas. Two people who began as child actors, starring in extremely popular franchises, part of the massive corporate machine, and both of them have decided to become niche artists. Both incredibly smart, talented, and have played entertainingly unhinged characters. They have my vote

[@Natta44]

Dinklage literally spoke out about typecasting dwarf actors. This was a double edged comment as it was supposed to elevate small people actors into non typical dwarf roles but all its done is cause Hollywood to stop casting small people in actual dwarf roles. Meaning now less roles for them altogether 😩

[@lyrajaded]

@@Natta44 Typecasting is not good, and it's garbage that, instead of writing better roles or hiring more diverse actors, Hollywood just writes them off almost completely. My main point is how commodified disability is in Hollywood. It's often used as oscar bait or comedy or fantasy short hand. There are so many great stories and talents out there and it hurts to keep seeing them used that way over and over and over again. And the same way hollywood execs would rather throw hundreds of thousands of dollars are PR firms and software than pay their goddamn artists, Hollywood would rather slap a head onto a cgi body than take the time to write a story with genuine little person character

[@kevinarnold8634]

Oompa Loompas couldn't be more background the vast majority of the time. Replacing them digitally hardly matters. It's not like amazing acting talent is needed in playing what is essentially mobile scenery. Such persons would be better served by an increase in truly significant for roles for them to play so that those other than the biggest names could get something.

[@cubicinfinity2]

@@kevinarnold8634 Yeah, this is true.

[@paul-luukprofijt7134]

Okay hear me out -- what about casting a small person as Wonka? Except Wonka is a tech billionaire who has literally automated his entire multibillion tech company.

[@aries118]

Wow when you put it that way I realize how compelling Wonka actually is today, in our society, as a representation of many of the billionaires we see. A man who cares more about his company than thousands of jobs/lives, who has altruistic dreams but doesn't care about any one person. This story is so so relevant. Would have loved to see them take it further that way seems like they are trying to make Wonka into the good guy. You're supposed to kinda hate him and be impressed/wowed by him. Charlie is the main character who is actually a good person, uncorrupted.

[@SeasideDetective2]

I think popular culture has already given us an excellent caricature of corporate capitalism: Max Shreck (Christopher Walken) of BATMAN RETURNS. Yes, he's technically a Tim Burton character and not a Batman character, but that doesn't make him any less compelling. In Daniel Waters's original screenplay especially, Max appears as multidimensional as a cartoon villain can possibly be. His only ambition in life is to make as much money as possible so that his family will be wealthy forever...but he's smart enough to understand that he can't be blatant in his ambitiousness. So he performs acts of virtue-signaling such as tossing free Christmas gifts to the people of Gotham City (which he reflects he's only doing because it was surplus merchandise he wouldn't have been able to sell anyway), and placing a pair of dollar bills in a Santa Claus's charity bucket for the TV news cameras to catch, making sure that the one everyone will see is a $50 bill and the one underneath is just a single. Most nefariously of all, Max wants to build a power plant so enormous that will monopolize all the electricity in the city, claiming that his only motivation is making sure that Gothamites will have all the electrical power they will ever need. Finally, he manipulates the city's political system in order the gain the leverage necessary to demand what he wants. At the same time, he's a "good guy" in that, unlike the movie's other villains, he harbors no desire for revenge and/or mass murder. Sadly, Max Shreck is at least as relevant a character now as he was in 1992. He's definitely more plausible than that other fictional energy tycoon, Montgomery Burns of "The Simpsons," who, despite being an outright crook and total misanthrope, benefits from everyone just looking the other way unless he does something REALLY heinous - and even then, he's always forgiven in the end.

[@annjepsen1621]

Gene Wilder never ever charmed me in this role, he terrified me. I saw him as a monster (not Wilder, but Wonka) and I still do. Its a sickly sweet bribe that turns my stomach. Marching children to their deaths.

[@freman007]

None of them died, and they were a bunch of spoiled brats. If they had died, who would miss them?

[@annjepsen1621]

@@freman007 Jesus Christ dude get help. Get some serious fucking help.

[@honeysweet4804]

@@freman007i hope you realize that you are the problem

[@kevinarnold8634]

@@honeysweet4804 Why is his perspective problematic? Many of the children were brats that earned their consequence.

[@no_peace]

​@@kevinarnold8634listen to yourself 😂

[@brentalfloss]

I think it’s worth saying that a lot of the cringe in the trailer may come from the fact that they’re advertising a musical as if it’s a non-musical film, so the style feels even more off. Great video btw!

[@cassinipanini]

I didnt even know it was a musical until reading your comment, and yup that explains the .... weirdness

[@ot7biasedmashups]

Oh wow... That explains a lot. But yeah, the problem is not the acting. It's the Skript. Hollywood is so damn set on watering down characters...

[@Fatherlake]

not excited for a musical honestly

[@Emanuele_Polisena]

You guys really find it cringe?

[@Ishbikes]

Can the kid sing or not

[@LilyLewis771]

This really feels like a re-skin of Greatest Showman to me. Very ethically dubious businessmen rewritten as being some kind of great philanthropists.

[@PaperbackJourneys]

"Modern Wonka Doesn't Work?" You know what doesn't work?... Grandpa Joe.

[@coffeebreakfiction1765]

Stop commenting and get back to reviewing books! Book review BOY!

[@PaperbackJourneys]

@@coffeebreakfiction1765 Fair.

[@theMoporter]

Yeah, because he suffered years of functional neurological pain and fatigue caused by environmental factors. Try looking up FND some time 👍

[@facthunt2facthunt245]

I'm glad Grandpa Joe knew better than to be a mindless wage slave.

[@genericname2747]

Bro sat in bed until Charlie won a golden ticket. Bro hid money from his family.

[@TehNoobiness]

I think Gene Wilder's performance is proof that doing a wacky cartoon character is harder than it sounds. Everyone else has tried to do the wacky cartoon dude, but Wilder's the one who makes Wonka _feel_ like a cartoon maniac.

[@TehNoobiness]

I'm sorry they WHITEWASHED THE OOMPA LOOMPAS

[@bricaaron3978]

​@@TehNoobiness Well, that's Democrats (Leftists) for you.

[@Discordia5]

​@@TehNoobinessorange washed

[@stuart6478]

midgetwashed

[@kendrillion7281]

​@@TehNoobiness​ it was either that or go with the original interpretations of Blackface which even by 60s standards was the reason why they changed them to orange

[@Seal0626]

As someone more insightful than I pointed out, Wonka is a hare and Timothy Chalomet is a rabbit.

[@dinosaysrawr]

Ah, perfect!

[@FatherTime89]

There's another angle they could take. Go the Bill Gates route. Make him a ruthless competitive businessman willing to pull all sorts of shady shit to get ahead, then have him try to soften his image when he gets to the top without actually fixing the damage he caused on the way there. I could totally see Wonka sabotaging his competitors by making their candy hurt the people who eat it, like what happened to violet.

[@kittycatgirl1139]

That sounds great

[@sighduck9789]

Because Oompa Loompa apartheid, that one is for Little Joel Edit: this video features Little Joel, a plot twist I should've expected

[@idontwantahandlethough]

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE OOMPA LOOMPAS?!

[@jenkinsjrjenkins]

The "origin story" genre was barely holding on and Wonka is def gonna be the nail in the coffin

[@Iris_1217]

The fact that the scene on the boat was almost completely improvised also helped it really land, I think. The reactions from the cast look so genuine because they legitimately have no idea what's going on.

[@nkbujvytcygvujno6006]

That's just a rumor. There's no proof. And it's certainly not shot like it was all done at once, or the cameras facing Gene Wilder's face or the actor's faces would have shown up in the wide shots. Besides, maybe we should just trust the actors to know how to act instead of assuming everything must be an unplanned toss-in.

[@RealWolfmanDan]

I saw Wonka tonight, and boy it came out of nowhere. I don't say this lightly because I was not interested in this movie at all, but I had a rare opportunity to take my family out tonight and so we did that, and went to see Wonka. I am capable of admitting when I am wrong, this film is probably one of the most enjoyable movie going experiences I've had in years. It was quite a pleasant surprise, the music and production design were wonderful and the film was truly magical. Go see it in the theatre. 10/10

[@crichton397]

Thank god, somebody actually saw the movie instead of talking it down because its too woke/not as good/its not Wilder. Its such a good movie and I loved Wilder's version. I can't believe how resistant people are just to seeing the movie. They're missing out.

[@thestormageddn]

Yes absolutely! And if i am honest to myself, I actually enjoyed it more than either the Gene Wilder or Johnny Depp versions, as i have zero nostalgia for both of them. Yes, it’s not as mean or creepy, but man, it’s just an absolute heartwarming delight and one of the most enjoyable theatre experiences i had in long time.

[@figmment]

I literally came back to this video to point out how many ppl were proved wrong lol thank u

[@Telorath]

Story was the same for me. Kinda got dragged to it, didn't want to be there. Don't like going to the movies, never liked the original movie, never saw the remake. Loved it so much I want to go see it again. Like I'm blown away that I'm Futurama "Shut up and take my money" eager to see this movie a second time in theaters when I usually hate to go to the theaters. But here we are: It somehow managed to be one of my favorite movies OF ALL TIME. And I know most people will NOT have that extreme of a reaction, but I think this movie will be remembered as a classic by the people that aren't trying to hate it off the gun.

[@lessismore8533]

@@figmmentit’s not “wrong” if ppl like it or not it’s just personal preference

[@afeathereddinosaur]

Mr. Wilder was simply too perfect for his role. He instantly interpreted Willy Wonka with surprising insight on human nature. He extracted from the script a jaded and skeptical millionaire - as rich as a modern billionaire basically - that went through the viscissitudes the corporate, business minded life can give you and someone that dealt with it by becoming eccentric, making a clear division between the cutthroat people in the industry and himself. Eventually he reached the peak as the factory owner of a widely known and appraised candy factory, and with it came the paranoia his life of climbing up the steps of capitalism taught him to have. He then isolated himself physically, and his eccentric nature took over the factory, creating a world of wonders, what is to him an oasis in the desert the world outside it is. Still, he can't change who he grew up to be, and so his character as a realistic factory owner infuses his eccentric and in this case wondrous persona and coalesces into the person we know as Willy Wonka. He saw Wonka as someone that has lived through a tough and dystopic world, shaped by it, molded by it and even managing to thrive within it but that wants to be something else, someone he saw himself being as a child and holding that vision of him with his dear life until he could finally let it free. But of course he couldn't protect that innocence and wonder perfectly, so he tried his best to recreate it and to try to do his best with whatever remained of it. That is how the contradictions within Old Wonka coexist so well together. At least that's how I interpret Old Wonka. I find it amazing how Gene Wilder managed to extract something like this from the story before acting it out. He read the depth that the character could have and it resonated with him, creating the amazing performance Old Wonka is.

[@hallsofdarkness3188]

I think the best opinion I’ve heard about this movie was that “they got a rabbit to play a hare’s role”. The young Wonka isn’t nearly insane enough.

[@percyross7612]

Let us not forget Wonka played a huge role in Charlie’s family being impoverished and their town being a slum. Charlie’s grandpa had a job. But then Wonka fired everyone because of he was worried about his trade secrets being stolen (this is an entire argument about the merits and downfalls intellectual property and open source knowledge all on its own). Grandpa Joe was fired along with everyone else who lived in that town and everything went to shit (happens when coal mines get shut down irl all the time-whole towns suddenly unemployed). And then when Wonka DOES open his factory again, instead of hiring local and putting money back into the economy, he “hires” free labor from a race of small village people from Africa and pays them in coco beans (yikes). Does Wonka use this newfound freed overhead to lower his price of chocolates? No lmao. It’s still too expensive for a kid like Charlie to get other than for his birthday. And, of course, Wonka’s competition made it so cavities were on the rise and so William Bucket, Charlie’s dad, who worked at a toothpaste company was fired so his job could be replaced by an faster automated robot to keep up with sales (yes, this is an explicitly stated plot point in the 2005 movie). And somehow the take away from the 2005 movie is still that you should be good and don’t step a toe out of line despite greedy capitalists wringing you for every last cent you have to your name. 🙄

[@o00nemesis00o]

I think you missed something there.... chocolate isn't a necessity.

[@simonfrost7094]

@@o00nemesis00o Having read the OP's entire comment, he doesn;t state that chocolate is a necessity - however, whilst it might not be a necessity to one's diet, but it was evidently a necessity to the town - once the factory closed its doors, it plunged everyone into poverty. So in that sense, yes, chocolate _is_ a necessity.

[@yourhandlehere1]

He didn't have "free" labor, they were paid in the currency of their choice. They were not unaware of their situation or the outside world. "Greedy capitalists" at least in this sense are caused/created by a gluttonous public. He made a tasty product. Nobody was forced to buy it. "If you build a better mouse trap, the world will beat a path to your door."...and then call you a greedy pig for making money off it

[@killercore007]

"And then when Wonka DOES open his factory again, instead of hiring local and putting money back into the economy, he “hires” free labor from a race of small village people from Africa and pays them in coco beans (yikes)" Probably because the still lingering fear of company secrets being leaked.

[@grabble7605]

Grandpa Joe could've gotten another job.

[@ColonelBragg]

Modern Wonka does actually work, It's just he was called Willfred and the movie was Snowpiercer.

[@AssassinKillua15]

The only way i could see this movie working is if it has a twist. Wonka gets a change in personality over the course of the film. They can't just have him be this happy and excited.

[@FlorSilvestre12]

Worth noting I think that in taking the Oompah-Loompahs and changing them from Africans to little people, the first movie pivoted from contributing to one form of oppression to another. The whimsical, amusing, not quite human archetype is something that has been used to exploit, devalue, and dehumanize real life little people for a long time now.

[@DownTrodded]

Funny how nobody talks about that only the racism.

[@CoqueiroLendario]

"Its fine guys! They don't exist in real life so we can abuse them!" This does reminds me of all those stories about robots who act like humans, its almost the same thing, using the machine as an allegory to slavery or inhumanly treated people. The droids in star wars for example are some that suffer the most, even though they all show signs of sentience and feelings.

[@timothymclean]

@@CoqueiroLendario And the one time they had a character take that problem seriously, she was treated as a joke and then had her robo-brain installed in a starship so she could be enslaved in silence for the rest of the franchise.

[@-tera-3345]

@@CoqueiroLendario It is weird to think that the only actual torture scene shown in the Star Wars movies is the droids in Jabba's palace, and it's kind of passed off for laughs but it was always deeply disturbing to me as a child.

[@kajamiletic3223]

Weren't they always short?

[@paigeanderson6490]

I feel like it would work if there was a movie regarding how prequel Wonka went from idealistic and almost naive in the business world to ruthless and exploitative 1970's Wonka. But I have a feeling that won't happen...

[@bc1284]

Hollywood won’t make it that’s for sure. The major producers are the same machine that a commentary on that kind of capitalism exists to uphold. Would a writer write it yes would actors act in it yes but no major production company or distribution group would finance it or distribute it.

[@iamsuperflush]

​@@bc1284maybe that's the real use for AI. Making films that could not get funding otherwise because their critiques are fundamentally opposed to the mechanisms that fund films.

[@nidhoggstrike]

I disagree, Hollywood would love to make this type of film. They love to convince themselves that they are "outside the system", instead of at the spearhead of it. More likely, they'd make this exact film, only to leave in something that invalidates the entire aesop.

[@paigeanderson6490]

@@nidhoggstrike Just like acting like they solved racism by race-swapping characters

[@i_garfed_on_the_carpet]

@@nidhoggstrikeyup “hey look we hate rich business men too!”

[@cartoon-clips-cuh]

A prequel 51 years later tho. Tell me you’re completely out of ideas without telling me you’re completely out of ideas

[@lessismore8533]

Ikr?

[@DTheAustralian]

technically 59 years, no?

[@Ash-V]

Roald Dahl hated the Gene Wilder version so much that he actually wrote into his will that no one was allowed to make an adaptation of the sequel book, Charlie and the Great Glass Elevator.

[@egg_bun_]

Man, that sucks so much :/

[@cvmagic404]

Well, no he has copyright to his book until a certain amount of time, once it has lapsed, it does not matter what the original author originally intended since it will be in the public domain. Depending on where and when it was written we may never see a movie based on it in our life spans but if there is still demand for it, there will be an adaptation of it in the future. @@egg_bun_

[@shadyguy23]

The Wonka/Musk parallels make me yearn for a Glass Onion/Gene Wilder Wonka mashup where Benoit Blanc has to investigate a murder at the chocolate factory and realized all Wonka’s creations are bullshit or stolen.

[@wastelanderone]

omg please

[@autobotstarscream765]

The murder: an exploded/mangled child.

[@caranook]

They need to accept that wonka is antagonistic. That doesn’t mean he has to be _the_ antagonist, but overall he’s not exactly a good guy. They shouldn’t be trying to paint him in this cheerful, good natured way, because that’s simply not who he is. In the original film he’s a capitalist sociopath, who doesn’t care about anybody except himself. Trying to paint him in a watered down, jolly way isn’t going to properly showcase the character.

[@chelseahindle3645]

Hear me out, a Willy Wonka story where Wonka is just blatantly based off Roald Dahl. A complex figure who seemed to despise everyone and everything, who was often very isolated, who made millions of children laugh and love reading, and also spouted off horrific things about Jews and black people. It could be a very interesting critique/retrospective on childhood nostalgia vs adult reality and the complexity of our childhood inspirations.

[@freman007]

All human beings are a mix of good and bad, and it becomes especially apparent in geniuses. Roald Dahl was definitely a literary genius.

[@kevinarnold8634]

Does anyone actually care about the person and his prejudices anywhere near so much as his works? Is there is any particular benefit in lingering on the nature of one now dead who can't even respond to that said versus focusing on his creations that are the only lasting aspect that remain? It sounds both boring and pointless, and a bit ghoulish besides.

[@slowbowz6383]

​@@kevinarnold8634we just watched a video of a spiteful mutant who agrees on censoring old books and will delete comments making fun of him for doing so. There's no way to reason or deal with people like this, because they aim to change our perception of past things to push their own agenda.

[@blatherskitenoir]

Willy Wonka brings to mind the Terry Pratchett quote: “Genius is always allowed some leeway, once the hammer has been pried from its hands and the blood has been cleaned up.”

[@DEADSHANKSPEARE]

Why couldnt they have made a Charlie and the Chocolate Factory that is actually Charlie being the caretaker and his descent into madness? That would actually be interesting.

[@UnknownUser-ef6gc]

Spoiler: it worked.

[@fireblade696]

The director of Wonka also directed the Paddington movies, two GREAT movies. I feel like he is taking the wholesome and whimsy approach from paddington, which worked for those movies, and bringing it to Wonka, which is missing the nuance and complexity of his character.

[@aditanasa2518]

I cannot be excited, as I am afraid that due to directorial shift, Paddington in Peru may end up failing. And if this happened, I will hate Warner Bros forever.

[@funkytiger6967]

I've always seen Wonka as a parody of sorts of Edison lol. For a man that comes to mind first when most people think of the word "inventor" he's invented painfully little and almost everything he invented was on the backs of multiple others lol. But he still somehow convinced the entire world he was THE genius and even entered into a WWE style feud with the actual genius inventor of his time.

[@mollie.28.15]

Did Edison actually try to, and successfully, convince the world he invented the lightbulb or was it actually the opposite? The whole world almost misremembers and we’ve decided to give him the credit when he hasn’t asked for it? I genuinely don’t know it’s a genuine question so if you know the answer I’d love to hear what it is

[@funkytiger6967]

@@mollie.28.15 GE is a company that he built off of his reputation as the man who gave the world light and when Tesla proposed Alternating Current over his company's DC he proceeded to electrocute people's cats (that he kidnapped) to show them that AC was more dangerous lol so yes, he was hell bent on being known as the man who invented the lightbulb and GE capitalized on that the most.

[@plugshirt1762]

@@mollie.28.15 He very intentionally marketed himself as a sole inventor genius taking credit for many inventions and told that to the media and with their everlasting wisdom and lack of care to the actual truth they just went with it to the point he went down in history that way when in reality was a good advertisement man first and foremost and most of his "inventions" were things he either merely improved upon from someone else and or were designed by his team and not him. It's interesting how in any project with more than one person we always find the need to give all the credit to one person only even if they didn't have the most work actually put in.

[@technicalmachine1671]

The fact that Musk runs Tesla, the company named explicitly because he was a foil for Edison, is like… you can't make this shit up.

[@rickybindahoose6193]

​@@mollie.28.15watch "The War of the Currents"

[@xtentasticx]

The issue is that original Willy Wonka's eccentricity was genuine, but he was self aware of it and very down to earth and could be a downright sarcastic cynic who can get angry like we saw at the end when he told Charlie he lost. The younger version it's like he's just... A dumb facade? The "wait no scratch that reverse it" in the original was Wonka needing to step out of his eccentric character for a moment But the young Willy Wonka... It was like he's not self aware of himself? The young Willy Wonka feels so fake...

[@riymeep6708]

The feeling I got from that part of the trailer was like watching someone trying painfully hard to seem quirky or weird. It's really off putting in a way I do not think is intended. While the original Wonka is self-aware, he is still very eccentric and crazy, like you mentioned. This new Wonka on the other hand, lacks that genuineness. It feels like the movie is trying to convince us "haha see this guy is so weird right?" and (at least in my opinion) failing at it because of that feeling of a facade. The original movie was able to instantly convince you that Wonka is eccentric and possibly crazy, or at the very least, actually a weird person.

[@JasonRainbows]

As a child back in the 60s, I saw Willy Wonka in a theater and quite enjoyed it. But even then, I really felt conflicted about the crass commercialism and how it took advantage of the little money impoverished people had. Even though I didn't even know what those words meant. I think it made a hippie out of me.

[@videon6134]

Did you ever watch the 2005 film?

[@JasonRainbows]

@@videon6134 The Tim Burton one? Seen some clips. Looks fun. Gonna check it out soon.

[@videon6134]

@@JasonRainbows if you read the book and were looking for something book accurate this will be your movie just saying.

[@JasonRainbows]

@@videon6134 Gonna watch it tonite. Thanks for the recommendation.

[@videon6134]

@@JasonRainbows so how was the movie?

[@lordjustinian2913]

if you wanted Wonka to just be a madman with no subtlety just get Nicholas Cage in the role. "Oh strike it, reverse it, put it right there and make more chocolate, chocolate you can eat forever, then everyone will die and I won't need to worry about paying my damn workers."

[@egg_bun_]

I can just hear him saying that 😂

[@Tetradepodmelontea]

Yessss. That would be too classic, but neickassicism is good thing in cinema.

[@chelscara]

Oh Cage Wonka would be such a time

[@terranhealer]

The thing about Gene that made it work (and many of his other roles) is he is such a sweetheart yet can also play as a lightening bolt when needed.

[@wasabii6506]

“He can’t swim” “There’s no better time to learn” 😂

[@abc.6223]

I always feel like people fall very flat when asked to analyze Willy Wonka as a character. The Gene Wilder one specifically. I feel like most people don't really try to understand him empathetically as a character in his own right. It usually just comes down to joking about how creepy and sociopathic he is and complimenting his charm at best. They call him an evil businessman and dismiss him as allegory more than a person who grew up in the world and had his own hopes and wants. But whats so wonderful about Gene Wilder's Wonka is that he's really a very emotional character. There's this bittersweet sadness about him, and a sense of terrible loneliness. Not a hatred for humanity, but a wish that it was better. My favorite scene with him is at the end of Pure Imagination where he sits down alone and he just goes quiet and there's this haunting chime behind him, before he offsets the sadness with the joke of biting his own cup. Sardonicism is how he copes, that's why he's so sarcastic. To me its quite clear that this is a man that was not only naturally a prodigy but pursued success and wealth because he earnestly did want to make his passion- like you said, he's benevolent- but this ultimately caused him to suffer the effects of fame, which is actually what he never wanted. He's surrounded by all these sycophants and fans but they don't really care. As he says in the film, it brought him a lot of distrust and heartache because people took his innocence and betrayed him for money, causing his resentment with the world, shutting everyone out. And the unhappiness and madness that caused him is evident in the scene with the half cut up furniture. Which is why he calls on children to replace him as the factory owner, he's searching desperately for that innocent childlike wonder uncorrupted by greed that once drove his entire factory because in truth he doesn't believe he even has it anymore. He opens his doors and says come inside, look what I dedicated my life to, understand me and don't hurt me in return. He is asking these people to STOP looking at his life through just a capitalistic lense-- expensive creations that, purely by how the system we live in works, had to be built through capital-- and to open yourself up to just innocently enjoying his creation and being courteous to another human being. Its why that moment where he says "And so shines a good deed in a weary world" is so touching, because its so meaningful to him personally that he finally found the good in humanity, an uncorruptable soul. He trusted someone and they didn't hurt him. Ultimately, he wasn't simply an insane misanthrope, he had a reason for being insane, and for shutting out humanity, but he never wanted to be that person. That's why he still strived to make child-like wonders, but it all rang empty, because he was no longer a child enough to enjoy it. That's the nuance that's so important to Wonka's character. He was someone trying to show people how to lighten up, how to be kinder, how to respect his boundaries, how to be silly and weird, how to be more like him, because he wanted to feel less alone. And I do get tired of the whole capitalism, evil rich guy analysis thing, because its one thing for it to be a subversive view of a film, but honestly it feels like the only cynical view anyone ever cares to give anymore. The analysis of Wonka on a human level as an artist who was harmed by the system he succeeded in, that's more interesting to me. And with the grandpa joe thing, like how many times do I have to hear that "grandpa joe was faking his illness" instead understanding the point of that scene and song is to ask you to believe that what Willy Wonka does can invoke wonder and simple joy so much that it could cure the sick and downtrodden with hope and happiness alone? Of course it doesn't make sense, but it happens right after a montage of nonsense Wonka Bars can do in the film's universe. And all those scenes where Grandpa Joe is saying what sounds like excuses are removed from context, he was actually in denial about how incapable he really is. He blames the cold floor because hes too ashamed to admit he's personally too weak to move anymore. The point of those scenes are to emphasize how incapable he really is, truthfully sick, before sheer happiness sends him into a dance number. I get in this video you're probably just joking btw I don't mean just Jack Saint, but its such a pervasive take I think most just take it as canon to the film, which also is so overstated by now. Okay. My rant is done sorry this is my favorite movie lol

[@eclipserepeater2466]

Thanks for the rant, I found it really interesting.

[@Angela-97]

I like your take on grandpa joe. Most people just assume he’s lazy and selfish.

[@frostrider3704]

With the Grandpa Joe thing, you make me think of my disabled friends who, in the day to day, are in pain and can't do what they want to do. They spend a lot of time in bed, they aren't lazy, they just can't do anything about it. But then something will come up in their life, a convention with a panel of creators they really want to see, or a meet up with friends they haven't seen in forever and they will make a special effort. They will go to that convention, they will go to that meet up. They might even dance and they will absolutely have a good time. But then they won't be able to do anything for weeks because they've messed themselves up. Someone might see them dancing for the first time in 5 years and say that they can't possibly be disabled. But they don't see them everyday and they certainly don't see the agony they end up in afterwards. Because sometimes a person needs a little happiness in their lives and they deem those awful weeks afterwards to be worth it. They plan for those weeks. I've seen a friend pre-make a fortnights worth of food because they were going to spend an evening out. They knew afterwards they wouldn't be able to do anything but limp slowly to the microwave once a day before going back to bed as the pain would be so bad. Just because they can occassionally find the strength and the will to over come it for a short period doesn't make them any less disabled. Grandpa Joe desperately wanted to see the inside of the factory again and he wanted to make sure Charlie was safe. Two very strong reasons for him to fight to overcome his disability for a short while, a day, maybe two at the most and risk harming himself for something he really, really wanted to do. His body is absolutely going to cash those cheques later, but in the here and now, he gets to see Wonka again and it will all be worth it.

[@theMoporter]

I feel that the cynical reading is totally compatible with your takes, and I agree with them. Especially the Grandpa Joe take, which is more realistic then was probably intended - elderly people can actually recover a lot of mobility because much of their immobility is imposed by the belief that this is just how their body functions now. Functional Neurological Disorder. It's wild(er).

[@abc.6223]

@@frostrider3704 That's very true, and honestly quite relatable as someone with a blood problem. I do think that's a great reflection of how simply inspiring happiness and excitement can have that affect, even if not as magical a cure and exaggerated as in the film !

[@DeathnoteBB]

The thing that bugs me is I _want_ to love this movie. But something about it feels so overproduced.

[@k8g8s8]

You watched this video and you still WANT to love this movie? From the beginning it's a broken project.

[@DeathnoteBB]

@@k8g8s8If you can read time stamps, I posted this as soon as the video was posted

[@FuzzyKittenBoots]

Because it's not giving Wonka but reimagined, young Walt Disney inviting people into his newest theme park. So squeaky clean and without any depth.

[@DeathnoteBB]

@@FuzzyKittenBootsYeah. It also feels so forced. “Scratch that, reverse it.” Like what is he a DJ? Wonka would just say nonsense and move on.

[@FuzzyKittenBoots]

@@DeathnoteBB It would probably suck anyway but I think casting Chalamet was a huge mistake. For one he doesn’t fit the role but second of all he still looks, sounds and is only really convincing as a teenager or at most like very early 20s. Which makes it harder to come off as mysterious and eccentric rather than a try hard teen.

[@tunneler9967]

The movie was actually fire fr XD

[@AnInnocuousBlueCube]

Wonka definitely should have been a straightlaced man made magical by a magical world, confused until his 2nd Act turn where he just gets it, and the 3rd act should be him fighting back against the real world and saying 'Forget that, I'm selling hats that make coconut snowballs out the front' and shutting himself in the factory.

[@wand1sh]

I was about to say, with Barbie coming out I would love to see more purposely synthetic looking campy stuff that is a bit more mature. Really excited to see VFX unionization on the horizon and hoping the strike can get everyone compensated for their work. The whole way streaming residuals work is pretty sinister and we already see it making projects suffer even more (the whole way the new haunted mansion movie's release shook out is really got the mouse showing face along side the strikes)....

[@Gkvfflowergirl]

When I saw the trailer for Wonka for the first time, I thought, "I cannot imagine this person growing up into Willy Wonka from the first movie. Sure, people change as they get older, but I CANNOT IMAGINE this guy growing up like that."

[@hackbodies]

I'd say he could if, halfway through the movie his friend dies of cholera and he is beaten half to death by thugs who were working for the evil candy illuminati who want his recipes. Plus that actor clearly has American Psycho vibes, just look in his eyes

[@mayalansky]

I can’t imagine him turning into any existing version of Willy Wonka

[@AzureScintillae]

I can imagine, well him going from a start up company that had good values to losing it and him being the way he is in the originals. Greed can drive people into madness once they had risen up to the top of the world. Especially if you were from the bottom parts of it Or if you were driven to go to the top so you can help someone, but that someone is lost along the way. You can only keep all the benefits to yourself. Something I picked up from watching the animated movie of Doctor Strange before the MCU existed. It’s a fun story to think about, how a depicted hero that stood up against greed and lost themselves because of greed.

[@isbestlizard]

I read the sequel growing up. It was very strange. Space Hotel USA! And... avocado-shaped alien things? Weird.

[@JaylukKhan]

It should be noted that Dahl himself realized the icky imlplications of the oompa loompas as African pygmies and corrected it. The version of the book most people recast them as blond little elves.

[@dinosaysrawr]

Also, I read that Roald Dahl's widow claimed that Dahl originally envisioned Charlie as black, but his agent nixed that idea.

[@egg_bun_]

​@@dinosaysrawrI think it's one thing to argue that Charlie could be Black, but I have a hard time actually seeing Dahl himself being okay with a protagonist that is Black 😵‍💫

[@dinosaysrawr]

@@egg_bun_ , well, that's what his widow claimed, at least! It's more than possible for people to have benevolent intentions or feelings towards a group or person while simultaneously harboring harmful stereotypes or biases towards them. I also honestly don't know the timeline here, so it's possible Dahl's attitudes changed over time. It's also certainly possible that his widow was trying to cast him in a sunnier light in attempt to counter or shut down criticisms of him. I'm not a Dahl expert, so I'm just reporting based on stuff I read a while ago.

[@derpfluidvariant0916]

@@dinosaysrawr I mean, it's not like you can't have an exaggerated stereotypic depiction of a group of people, and also have a "normal" member that's part of the main cast. Phineas and Ferb did that with Stacy's family in (iirc)Japan. Stacy and her mom are depicted as normal people, but her extended family have anime eyes and did the carameldancin dance. Might've even added to the dark factor, as a black child became effectively a slave owner.

[@InfinityMind1]

He was right. No need for essays and that's it. Wonka and his use of literal African slaves is the most straight up show of what was literally wrong with the success of some industries and the original book literally addresses it. Diluting messages so they're edible to wider masses and ignoring uncomfortable messages is not the way. P.S.: 12:30 - Why shouldn't he protect his IP? It was his idea.

[@leegaul2161]

Nearly every modern adaptation has erased the point of their source material, losing the message, losing the moral, losing the learning experience. We are causing the problems these stories were designed to teach us to avoid. The irony with Rachel Zegler and Snow White. The story warns us of the dangers of vanity and self aggrandization, and it's being retooled to appeal to an activist culture, and ironically, is causing the economic failure of a studio, due to the vanity and self aggrandization of the main actress. We are living in a real life "Brave New World" and I only wonder what Huxley would have thought that he was pretty much writing the future.

[@r.g.c.3897]

Africans are not inherently slaves. If Blacks leave Africa of their own free will and agree to work for someone, even if you believe the terms are exploitative, it is not slavery. To call it slavery just shows your own biases and remove the agency of black people in the process.

[@Zucifer8]

@@r.g.c.3897what the hell is your point? Also, no one even said that. Don’t try to downplay race based chattel slavery.

[@EveTheRaviolo]

@@Zucifer8 their point is that you're calling some workers "slaves" just because of their race

[@r.g.c.3897]

@@EveTheRaviolo It's good to see that you can read even it is beyond the others, lol.

[@fractalmoetv]

Love the commentary on the nuances of the original story, its archetypes and symbolism in Wonka. I'm not sure the vast majority can appreciate that anymore. We've become the parody, the spectacle itself.

[@belhariry]

Based on his Barbie performance, I feel that Will Ferrell could make Wonka work in that parody of rich businessman style.