The Fight Against Gun Violence 25 Years After Columbine (w/ Tom Mauser) | Bulwark Podcast

Tom Mauser lost his son, Daniel, in the Columbine High School massacre in 1999. He joins Tim Miller to discuss his long fight against gun violence, small victories over the NRA, and the continuing inspiration of his son.
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The Bulwark Podcast: Tim Miller and guests discuss the latest news from inside Washington and around the world. No shouting, grandstanding, or sloganeering. Conservative, conscientious, and civil.
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[@chronic_payne5669]

Watching this dad’s face light up seeing his son’s speech, broke me. Our kids deserve so much better than the country we’re forcing them to grow up in

[@meowxoxo9419]

my heart just broke when i saw that

[@glennmorgan4197]

I have been a responsible gun owner for my entire life and got my 1st one at 18 and did what I thought was the right thing and joined the NRA. After I turned 34 I noticed that the NRA was sending me paperwork the size of War and Peace, trying to tell me who to vote for and who was favorable towards what I felt was extreme policies towards gun control and made no logical sense. As someone who has always been concerned about the environment and a very conscience person about the wasteful amount of paperwork that the NRA was sending through the USPS. I couldn't bring myself to keep sending money to an organization that was endorsing such extremely permissive laws on firearms and burning through such enormous amounts of paperwork in the pursuit of them. I believe that the most illogical change in gun control was the failure to reinstate the assault weapons ban for the first time in my life. As a veteran and hunter, I feel that assault weapons have no place in public ownership. If you want to play with them, then go serve your country and get properly trained and then leave them in the armory where they belong. There's no state where you can legally hunt with more than 5 rounds in your weapons, and the caliber must be 30,06, or bigger. Therefore, the .223 ammunition of an AR15 is illegal everywhere. I'm not the only former NRA member who left when they became shills for the gun company's. More power to the work you do. 😊

[@delta5297]

The NRA's interpretation of the Second Amendment is so extreme and warped it simply bears no resemblance to what the founders of the Constitution imagined. Either we need Supreme Court justices who will provide a more reasonable interpretation of the Second Amendment, or it should be repealed entirely.

[@S1D3W1ND3R015]

As a fellow veteran myself it saddens me to see my a small few of my fellow brothers and sister sin arms not holding their oaths to the Constitution seriously. If you truly believe the 2nd amendment is about hunting than there is not much I can say to open your mind otherwise as that is such non existent point that is not even implied in the 2nd amendment at all. It has absolutely nothing to do with hunting. Also the reason why .223 or 5.56 is illegal a good amount of states is actually the opposite of what the gun control lobby tell you. It's illegal because it doesn't do enough damage and may inhumanely slowly kill the game because it doesn't have the power to kill a lot of bigger game. It's actually in the hunting world classified as a varmint round.

[@user-bg4pg1lm9b]

Tim, you continue to raise the bar at The Bulwark! Thank you so much for having Mr. Mauser on and reminding us of Columbine and the larger issue of gun control, which is an oxymoron in this country!!

[@audreywellham2413]

🎯❗️ Agree, tremendous. 🙏🏻🇺🇸⚖️💙🗽

[@missshroom5512]

👍🏼🌎☀️💙

[@LindaCarruthers-dg7gp]

Tim, you are a very, very good empathetic and intelligent interviewer. My heart just breaks for Mr Mauser. What a terrible state the US is in that a noisy minority prefers the right to buy a gun over the lives of their children. Simply ineffable.

[@katherinea.rodgers8366]

Thank you, Tim for having Mr. Mauser share his story. He is doing good work. We have never forgotten the Columbine massacre. And, we haven't forgotten the pain that the parents suffered.

[@audreywellham2413]

Their lifetime journey of craziest grief imaginable. 🕊️🤍🙏🏻

[@jamesatkinson3812]

Thank you so much for this Tim. Tremendous respect for Mr Mauser

[@audreywellham2413]

Tim, I am so impressed by your depth of empathy. As a person and also a nurse. I thank you, you were so very kind to this amazing guest, we know you struggled. Being from same area with friend and similar in age, you identified. Fabulous episode. 🕊️🙏🏻🇺🇸⚖️💙🗽 Get to Colorado soon, I bet he’d appreciate that hug!

[@superclaymaster]

You guys are consistently actually covering problems in society. This one really shook me back to that day. Good work Tim, thank you Mr. Mauser.

[@MAC-op5fc]

Still makes me cry. Very sincere respect to Mr. Mauser.

[@viewer12319]

Thank you so much for this. Honoring what should be honored- much appreciated, Tim.

[@user-mi9wg2gq7c]

Much respect Mr Mauser to you & your family 🙏

[@bobboonstra3484]

Outstanding interview. Heroic guest. Thoughtful but probing questions. Fabulous work, Tim.

[@saramiller2759]

Thank you Tim and thank you Tom for an inspiring episode!

[@MOEMMOH]

Good topic, and episode, Tim and Tom.

Excellent, though sad, conversation; Tom Mauser is an inspiration.

[@becka_boo]

I was still in the hospital after delivering my youngest child when this happened. I remember thinking in that moment, how their lives would be so very different from any generation previous to them! The loss and pain we all felt about this was so immense, it’s hard to fathom that we’ve not moved the needle in any remarkable way. Just horrifying really! Thank you to this man for sharing so much with all of us ❤

[@judykinsman3258]

Actually we have moved the needle. Sadly in the wrong direction.

[@audreywellham2413]

The NRA was found guilty of multiple violations and bankruptcy. Then the NRA President dude left. Couldn’t remember anything. Hope we are moving the right direction moving forward. 🙏🏻🇺🇸⚖️💙🗽🕊️

[@becka_boo]

@@judykinsman3258 So true!

[@moeytoo]

Tim, you are a great human being.

[@lesbrown8099]

Excellent, meaningful discussion...thank you...

[@judykinsman3258]

Tim, republicans are about politics while democrats are about policy. Get it?

[@browneyedgirl6050]

Thank you both for this honest conversation. It is just beautiful to hear about Daniel. As a mom of school age kids, I worry that they may at some point be involved in something like this. But then I get real and realize it could happen at our sporting events or the grocery store. I just don't understand how we are the ones who have to make sacrifices so others can have their "freedom." None of these requests are infringing on anything. Something needs to change and I am frightened to think about what might need to happen to see those changes happen. I thoughy for sure with Columbine. Then most definitely with Sandy Hook. And yet, here we are.

[@dawningmoment]

Great show, thanks!

[@josephlogan7639]

It is so uplifting seeing compassionate people taking positive action. It is heartbreaking seeing what these people and their families have gone through.

[@alygray8779]

thank you for having this discussion

[@glennmorgan4197]

30:59 Absolutely, yes please.

[@SgtTibbsTX]

This was such an amazing show. So heartfelt and most of all IMPORTANT!! Thank you!

[@VictoriaSchwimley]

Nice interview. I love hearing stories about the Columbine victims.

[@Reldas]

This is great, Tim. Thank you. I was in high school when Columbine happened.

[@AntiMasonic93]

Yeah, I'm class of 1999 from high school. I watched the reporting of the Columbine Massacre on live television.

[@gentleken7864]

I can't imagine living in a country where there are preventable mass shootings. I can't imagine living in a country where the politicians are bought by lobbies to not do anything about these mass shootings, even common sense background checks. I can't imagine living in a country where the 'hallowed' constitution written in 1788, including a clause about owning firearms (muskets at the time), is still being used as a reason as to why people are allowed to walk into a shop and buy a mass murder weapon. I'm still amazed that schools are teaching kids what to do if there is an active shooter. Why not, you know, try and get rid of the item that is responsible for the deaths. Other countries did, so we can actually see that it is effective.

[@randibgood]

This is not how I ever thought it would be in this country. I thought our elected officials cared more about us than they do. Their FREEDUMB to cosplay Rambo infringes on the rest of us to feel safe going, well, anywhere really. It's very frustrating. But what they haven't calculated into their campaigns, is those kids that have NEVER had one school year that they didn't have to practice active shooter drills, are old enough to vote now.

[@S1D3W1ND3R015]

We have background checks in all 50 states. Repeating arms have been around since the 1600s. Can you define a mass murder weapon? A knife recently killed more people in Australia than 95% of definition "mass shootings" annually here in the US. Mass murder weapon?

[@shanaralls157]

Oh, you're right. We tend to be more individualistic than, you know, more reasonable, collectivist cultures, which doesn't necessarily lend itself to empathy. When you're focused more on self than society, you're less likely to be willing to give up freedoms for others, even if to save lives. We also have a very entrenched "gun culture," with lots of dad/son hunting trips, things being "handed down," "I used to go hunting and fishing all the time with my Granddaddy," etc. It's sort of like the gut reaction some meat lovers have when veganism is mentioned -- like food, self-defense is deep-rooted and emotional and not terribly logical or patient or kind. There is absolutely no good reason for not enacting gun law reform, at the very least, but there is a very vocal segment of the population that bristles when any mention of restrictions is made. Unfortunately, it will take more mass shootings closer to those people to loosen their grip on their view that there should be virtually no restrictions on firearms. It will take gun nuts losing immediate family to change their minds. It's astonishing, that we still haven't reached the point where the pain of staying the same is worse than the pain of changing.

[@onlykarlhenning]

Good show!

[@hamilton1888]

I was born in August of 1999, just a couple months after Columbine. It feels like so little has been done in 25 years over my entire lifetime.

[@mteacher9811]

I owned a gun for a long time. When my friend was killed in the Aurora, Co mass shooting, I finally sold it. It's hard to realize and square these two things, but 1. the "feeling of safety" and 2. actual safety are two different things and, although my weapon made me feel the former, it did not entail the latter. This is what other countries like Canada have discovered. I now support almost every kind of regulation possible: Universal background checks, long waiting periods, centralized registration, limits on # you can own (exceptions for registered collectors, etc), ammunition and magazine capacity limits, restrictions on the type of weapon, etc, training, testing, and licensing for possession and use. I don't think I'll ever own one again.

[@S1D3W1ND3R015]

So you blamed the gun instead of his killer. Got it.

[@ryanedwards7487]

I graduated from Virginia Tech with my engineering degree in 2006. When the killer murdered all those students and professors in Norris Hall in 2007 he started with the room right in front of the stairs on the second floor...where I and every single senior civil engineering student spent EVERY 8AM on Tuesday the year before. It was Dr. Loganathan's Fluid Mechanics class. Dr. Loganathan died, several kids in that class died, 2 weeks before they would have earned their degree. I had tutored one, been friends with several others, and spent that horrible day calling at work nonstop trying to get in touch with people I knew in Blacksburg (fun fact, in 2007 you could overload and stop a cell tower with that level of call volume). I worked at a company where around 65% of the architects and engineers had graduated from VT, and several of them had kids there that morning, one of which was in that very room. Until that day, I was like Tim. Now I think we should ban assault weapons, limit the amount of ammunition a private citizen can own. I am a big fan of forcing owners of military-grade weapons to keep their precious fetish totems at their gun club...where those things belong. Well, technically a SAW belongs in an armory on an army base, but I will settle for it being under lock and key in a very secure location. I was lucky enough to graduate before I had to go thru that hell. And the hell I went through finding out who had died that I knew was more than anyone should have to suffer.

[@AntiMasonic93]

Yeah, the sole reason why Virginia Tech happened was because Seung-Hui Cho was obsessed with Eric and Dylan. The 5'4 Cho wanted to outdo Eric and Dylan and kill more people.

[@lhoward9593]

I feel crushing sadness about the waste of so many lives in the US - all because of the gun lobby and a misreading of the 2nd amendment. Thank you for this important conversation.

[@user-ew7py1wd9v]

Misreading, only liberals misread the second amendment. What's so hard to understand? The rights of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. That's pretty darn clear to understand!!!

[@Javra88]

Tom Mauser is so cool. He is very sweet

[@glennmorgan4197]

29:23 I guarantee that you are not alone in this situation.

[@WalterDegurse]

Good to see you on the podcast. I a colleague in your past (Walt D Trinidad) I think of you and your story, and it still feels me with pride that you are still a super individual with a great message. You are a great teacher. You and your family will always be in my thoughts - certainly my position on this hopefully will place a warm feeling in your heart.

[@judykinsman3258]

Didn’t the NRA have their convention in Denver right after these killings?

[@superclaymaster]

I don’t know if it was Denver but it was in Colorado.

[@S1D3W1ND3R015]

Wasn't the 1994 ban in place when this happened? I've noticed none of the comments mention this little nugget.

[@juliebraden]

Wow Tim!! Knew u were a Coloradoan but no idea u cud hav actually been going to the hi-school wen it happened! Omg so glad u weren't there. So sorry for all the people who WERE directly affected, especially the victim's family's

[@reneeparker7475]

One more thing about having a gun in the military is that those who bear them are trained in how to responsibly use the weapon and have to practice using them. I'd also add that the Second Amendment says "to keep and bear arms" in order to form a militia to protect the nation, not one word about having the right to buy them.

[@S1D3W1ND3R015]

You kinda have to buy them or acquire them to "keep" and then "bear them. Why do you guys make it into rocket science. Also clearly you are not a veteran or know someone in the Military as just because you are in the military, I've seen a lot of negligent discharges.

[@reneeparker7475]

@@S1D3W1ND3R015 If you are in a militia that is formed to protect the nation, you are essentially in an army that answers to the president. You will be issued a gun of their choice. My father served in WWII and my late husband was a Marine in Vietnam AND I have been trained in the use of a firearm by a licensed instructor.

[@S1D3W1ND3R015]

@reneeparker7475 Absolutely false. As a 10 year veteran. I do not answer to the president. The first and foremost absolute duty through your oath is to support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic. The orders of the president is secondary, and you not only have the obligation but the duty to refuse any order given to you that are unlawful, immoral, or unconstitutional. The 2nd amendment is part of the Constitution. Whether your personal feelings align with it or not is completely irrelevant.

[@lizgifford]

❤❤❤

[@rebd00mer93]

Tom mauser is the only persn from columbine that makes me cry. I dont agree with him on guns but he seems like a really nice man.

[@williamgarry2635]

Tim, great conversation as always. One of the reasons that I love listening to these segments because they are thoughtful conversations with a conservative that is willing to consider recalibrating their beliefs. What I feel is missing from some of your conversations on The Bulwark are discussions on where the conservative agenda should adjust there policies and more specifically, what those new policies should be. IMHO, one of the reasons that MAGA has been displacing the rest of the GOP (in elected offices) is that the clear policy agenda is missing. Harkening back to Reagan when we are 40 years past his SECOND election is no longer effective when the domestic & foreign policies we face are so different than the 80’s & 90’s. If there is going to be a Conservative Party in America that isn’t MAGA, then there needs to be policy answers to questions about housing policy, foreign policy, reproductive care/access post-Dobbs, gun access policy, and so much more. Until then, the discussion here will just continue to be “how MAGA is so awful” & “why doesn’t Biden adopt this position that’s closer to our viewpoint”…

[@wakingupcrosseyed]

Intensely apropos.

[@peterford9369]

Wow, I am so out of touch with this subject and when you said Littleton it hit home. My recently departed brother has been living in Littleton for the last 10 years. We are a Florida family but when my parents divorced, my mom moved to Colorado springs. Back in the 80s. Then my brother and sister moved to Colorado springs as well. But when my mom died he moved to the Denver area. But Littleton in particular. And Columbine never registered. Very sorry about your son. This gun shit has to be dealt with. But guns are just so engrained in our society, it's going to really be hard to do anything. But it's very doable. Clinton did it. But it's everywhere, every state. Especially cowboy like states.

[@PoormansMachineGun]

Perspective from the other side of this coin: * Gun show loophole / private sales of firearms ~ The vast majority of sellers at gun shows are licensed FFL dealer that congregate in one location. All of which are required by federal law to conduct a FBI NICS background check. Private sales of firearms anywhere is allowed as long as the seller doesn't have knowledge that the buyer is prohibited from owning a firearm. Solution ?: Replace the current FBI NICS background check system with the proposed B.I.D.S or the “Blind Identification Database System” which would provide a list of prohibited people to local gun shops. The shop compares the name of the buyer to the listed names who are prohibited to lock out illegal sales. This system could be set up as an app for private sellers to use as well. BIDS removes the need for the 4473 form which there is probable cause to believe it is being used by the ATF to create an illegal federal registry of firearms.

[@tarabartee3424]

Tom: Remember me from CDOT? Tara, moved to Tallahassee Fl. Would love to hear from you. I'm listed.

[@tonebenderx]

I would love someone to explain to me why some folks consider firearms more important than the lives of children ... or anyone.

[@GraydonNFord]

Mr. Mauser is a courageous and determined father who has tirelessly tried to get common sense gun laws passed. He is an inspiration but it is sad and sickening how slow his journey has been. I wish someone with a major news media would explain in graphic detail with graphic photos what it's like to be shot and killed by a gun. When the news says "there was another shooting today and x number of people were killed" it's too easy for viewers to ignore what actually happens to the victims. When a person is shot there is the in-the-moment fear, there is pain, and shock, and the absolute physical destruction of the body, then more pain, and more fear, and finally the last breath. Our imagination of what it's like to be shot comes from Hollywood movies and so we can't connect the reality of what it's like to the action of being shot. American viewers need to be "shocked and disgusted" by the realities of these horrific crimes to be forced into action voting for tougher common sense gun- laws rather than falling back to the usual responses of "our thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and their families" until the next travesty happens. That is not enough.

[@douglasodonnell6800]

The NRA doesn’t see down the road the effects of what they’re doing. Safety will eventually become a focus for America and we’ll start to work towards solutions and the NRA will be irrelevant.

[@SgtTibbsTX]

I want a hug too Tim! Or is that kind of stalker-ish? 😊

[@63ah1275]

Don't blame the guns.

[@kayrosis5523]

I went to Columbine, 5 years after the shooting. Frank DeAngelis was my principal. He was there for the shooting and he was there for me. He was worried about me, that I was an outcast, that I fit the pattern of the boys who committed the shooting. I remember very clearly one day, when I was sitting alone and miserable in the cafeteria, he came up to me and wanted to have a heart to heart talk. The Columbine shooting could not have been avoided. It was an internal pain that Eric and Dylan had that they turned on those around them. They took the pain in their lives, and whether you think it's fair or not, made their community feel their pain. Guns are a tool, they make killing others easier but guns don't kill people, people kill people. 25 years ago, Frank DeAngelis watched 2 of his charges kill others. 20 years ago he was worried I might repeat that. I've never been violent, but I do understand in ways that not everyone can. Pain, pain is something that you can make go away by transferring the pain you feel to others, to make them feel the pain, you lessen your own suffering. It's perverse of course, but still truth. This country doesn't want to talk about it's pain, about it's hurt. We're too prideful. But that pain will continue to show itself. You can't just erase who you are and what you've been through. I say this as someone who watched people try to deal with unimaginable pain, you need to respect another's suffering, for your own benefit. You must let them suffer and find a resolution, if you interrupt it, they'll bring hell upon you. Making others suffer is always an effective way to lessen your own pain. This is just an unpleasant truth about reality.

[@audreywellham2413]

Thank you so much for sharing. Very imperative conversation must happen. 🕊️🤍

[@KaiHuang-qo6tj]

Mr Mauser's courage makes me mad at MTG, Alex Jones for persecuting survivors, spreading conspiracy theories.

[@AntiMasonic93]

Some residents in Newtown stated Sandy Hook was closed for asbestos removal; therefore, the shooting could not have happened. Alex Jones was just pointing this conspiracy theory out to the masses.

[@rebd00mer93]

In all fairness regardless of the gun show loop hole eric and dylan would have gotten guns anyways. They legally could buy guns because they didnt have a criminal record (not sure if the van theft was a felony or if it caused them to have their gun rights taken). The only reason they went to the gun show is because they were young. Dylan was still 17. Eric had just turned 18 so technically eric could have legally bought the guns.

[@lorrie2878]

I am appalled that this gun insanity continues in the richest country in the world. Emily might graduate in May and go to France on scholarship. Or maybe not.😢

[@user-wb7ss9ji3y]

Redo SCOTUS. Go back to 2nd amendment interpretation before Scalia did his work for the gun industry.

[@S1D3W1ND3R015]

This wasn't a reinterpretation. It was reaffirming what was already known. How hard is it to understand. The government has zero control over a constitutional right that literally states shall not be controlled or restricted (definition of infringed)

[@barryross8382]

So where are maga in this heartbreaking chat?

[@ttacking_you]

I feel like tim is a little too bogged down in the emotional resonance of Tom's struggle and intrepid plight to tactfully navigate the interview so as not to sound like an interrogation. It's perfectly understandable being a new parent and all. Kids hinder your objectivity. Yet eschewing some degree of sentients is preferable in the art of broadcasting

[@ttacking_you]

"Preferred" sounds better than preferable

[@audreywellham2413]

Tim is skilled at empathy. It’s a gift to those who can appreciate it. 🕊️🤍

[@ttacking_you]

@@audreywellham2413 upon reconsideration, I heartily concur. Mea culpa

[@S1D3W1ND3R015]

The whole argument is based in emotions. There is no statistical evidence of an AWB doing anything meaningful. It's the least used weapon in gun crime and mass shootings in general. Handguns are overwhelmingly the most used, but they do not have the political capital to push to ban those yet. More people die falling out of bed than all deaths from all causes from all rifle types. Including AR 15s or AKs.

[@user-ew7py1wd9v]

Vote TRUMP for democracy's sake, never ever relinquish your 2nd amendment rights🎉🎉🎉

[@NoSacredCowFla]

I'm a Republican and I went to private school. Full. Stop. Tim. Your privilege is showing.

[@judykinsman3258]

And does Tim see that?

[@audreywellham2413]

Tim was explaining he grew up in that school district, Columbine would have been his school but he was educated in Catholic schools. Settle down. 🙏🏻🇺🇸⚖️💙🗽

[@audreywellham2413]

@@judykinsman3258this was obviously personal for Tim he identifying he was blessed because he was educated in a different education forum in the exact same district, same age and mutual friends. 🕊️🤍