The Final Showdown AKA He’s Blocked Now | Robin (he/him) - DC | Skeptic Generation S1E12

[@Mauricio_Magus]

Presups will forever be a joke.

[@incardianify]

Hopefully ya

[@Kaspen82]

Nobody has come to Christ through presup arguments. Nobody. .

[@JM-ot8ux]

@@Kaspen82 If they do, they were looking for an excuse not to think about things.

[@TheDizzleHawke]

@@Kaspen82 exactly. It’s just a reassuring circle jerk. I’m convinced this is the case for all apologetics.

[@travispratt6327]

@@Kaspen82 There’s a guy in discord named foxy who claims darth was a main factor in making him a Christian. Of course he could be twisting the truth or lying, but he’s not the only one who I’ve seen express this. People believe the earth is flat because [insert literally any flat earth argument here] so it’s not really that far fetched.

[@markvonwisco7369]

Robin is just a politer version of Darth. Booting him to the outer darkness is fully justified.

[@sfprivateer]

They should probably concider instabanning everyone who has visited Darth's discord :D

[@aprilknight9240]

Darth and his minions are all pathetic trolls.

[@sypherthe297th2]

Only marginally so. You should see this little b*tch whenever he gets backed into a corner and pushed off script. You see his veneer drop and the Darth clone comes out.

[@geraldammons5520]

Politer?!

[@zacharyshort384]

@@geraldammons5520 Yeah, he is. Hard to believe? You must not be all that familiar with Darth ;) He's worse.

[@SecondQuantisation]

The Hosts say "I don't know" Robin says "That's ridiculous. Clearly I'm right" The Hosts say "So demonstrate that claim" Robin says "We're talking about you. You're ridiculous" And thus he shifts the burden of proof in EXACTLY the same way as Darth's "I'll answer questions in a minute, once we're done with my questions of you". Then he just keeps monologuing and claims victory without an iota of justification.

[@chrisking6695]

Incredibly dishonest right? And all that dishonesty because they're scared little wimps without their imaginary sky daddy. I personally don't care either way. I live in the here and now and in my here and now there's no signs of a supernatural entity and there isn't a single problem in my life that is solved by appealing to a god. Why become a dishonest apologist for a supernatural being that he can't even see, smell or access to confirm its existence? That's gotta be a mental illness or something.

[@darksoul479]

Exactly. Darth wannabe

[@TheSnoeedog]

have you seen billy fail with his "perfect syllogism?" I'll summarize, since they don't make trailers for these clips: *Billy* - my syllogism is perfect *Jaime* - I've presented problems with your argument *Billy* - no you haven't *Jaime* - yes I have...let me restate them *Billy* - dude that's not true *Jaime* - actually, it is *Billy* - so you're ignoring the perfection of my argument *Jaime* - no, I pointed out the myriad ways it's imperfect *Billy* - no you haven't *Jaime* - yes. I have, and I don't know that going through them again will bear fruit *Billy* - dude, don't be an asshole *Jaime* - I'm using neutral language *Billy* - you're in denial *Jaime* - ...eric, do you have a gun handy?* *Billy* - what if i was undetectable, wouldn't I be supernatural? *Jaime* - no, you'd be undetectable *Billy* - that means I'm supernatural! *Jaime* - no it doesn't *Billy* - But I said so! *Jaime* - this is pointless *Billy* - you guys are in denial kzbin.info/www/bejne/ep_UiKtjeNGjr8k

[@BaronVonQuiply]

@@TheSnoeedog But he's "been working on it for 14 years, dude." 😜 There's a Muslim apologist named Nadir Ahmed who likes to tell people how he's been studying and debating for 25 years. Twenty...five....years... and he has the skill level of meeting a difficult question by declaring that the questioner has finally begun to accept the scientific miracles in the Qur'an (trivial things that don't directly state science is false, if it does say something too wrong for him to spin, It's a miracle-miracle as opposed to a scientific one like "wash that goat shit off your hands before you eat"). He is hilarious. If you like laughing at facepalm moments, I highly highly recommend seeking out his debates. Here's a hilarious clip where he argues "the Qur'an doesn't say that" and tries to change the subject when he reads the verse in question kzbin.info/www/bejne/oneVomZsg7B7gtU

[@hankkingsley9183]

A clip needs a trailer?

[@loki6626]

Vi f*kin rocks! ** This was such bs. Basically all that pseudo-philosophical crap boiled down to: "Atheists can't account for where everything comes from but I can by imagining that god did it." The reason atheists can't account for it is because we have to be intellectually honest and not just make shit up! **Thomas rocks too.

[@Therian13]

If you piss Vi off, you know you fucked up... Them getting angry is more rare than chicken teeth... :)

[@FaiaHalo]

You said it so well, Loki!!

[@greyeyed123]

And as soon as you ask them where god came from and what caused him, they completely give up the basis of their entire argument as if it shouldn't matter and no one will notice.

[@Therian13]

@@greyeyed123 Special Pleading seems to be the bread and butter of most apologetics, I think...

[@ookeekthelibrarian]

Loki, Vi is one True Blue Bonzer Sheila and this is proven by the fact she completely destroyed Robin. Robin is the Head apostle of Darth Dawkins and he had to run back to his master with his tail between his legs.

[@j3pelfrey]

My invisible friend told me he is the ontological basis for life the universe and everything. He also told me he can't be wrong about this. Checkmate atheists. Robin my niece who is 8 can argue better than that. Props to Vi for hitting Robin with the Thor school of logic. "All words are made up" PRICELESS!!!

[@G_Demolished]

@Toughen Up, Fluffy Yeah but if he admits that he loses what he thinks is the scientific basis for his bigotry.

[@jimscanoe]

@Toughen Up, Fluffy And you're playing let's pretend.

[@jimscanoe]

@@G_Demolished It's not bigotry-if you want to play let's pretend, fine; but, I choose not to play with you.

[@lightbeforethetunnel]

Isn't this very close to what you guys do with the laws of logic in your worldview? You assume these immaterial laws exist & that they're universal and absolute despite the fact you can't prove this or observe them.

[@lightbeforethetunnel]

And you say you can't be wrong about their existence.

[@Callimo]

lol, this dude is literally asking Vi and Thomas to prove a negative, whereas he feels that he should not have to prove his positive (god existing). And he has the audacity to get aggressive and angry. Welp, narc gonna narc, and I'm glad he's banned :>

[@averagenpc1959]

Fun fact: whenever someone brings up what you said here, Robin's mentor Darth will say "every statement is the denial of its negation", implying that every proof for "X" being true is implicitly a proof for "Not X" being false. Then he'll pretend that saying "I'll go with Not X until convinced otherwise" is the same as claiming "I know that X is false with absolute, divine certainty".

[@Catholictomherbert]

You still have to prove the negative for the microphone not existing

[@mauscuba]

"I rather have questions that have no answers than "answers" that can not be questioned" Richard Feynman...

[@ThEjOkErIsWiLd00]

"Philosophy is questions that may never be answered, theology is answers that may never be questioned."

[@violentvioletvengeance5616]

I can show you the Mystery of God if you care to know!

[@ThEjOkErIsWiLd00]

@@violentvioletvengeance5616 Get back to us when you've actually solved the mystery.

[@violentvioletvengeance5616]

@@ThEjOkErIsWiLd00 I didn't solve it... I was shown... All Praise and Glory to the Father!!!

[@markshere1022]

@@violentvioletvengeance5616 How do you know he's male?

[@bradchervel5202]

Robin, "Doesnt sound like you have it all together".......the last gasp projection.

[@bobmudge4836]

All I’m hearing is, “If you can’t explain how everything came to be, then it was god.” Makes no more sense today than it ever did.

[@supertouring22]

Just a "god of the gaps" with some fancy wording

[@santa_christ]

Tom Rabbitt just uploaded a clip of Darth telling Robin exactly what to say next time he called and who would have guessed, it was the first thing out of Robin’s mouth, he barely even said hello first. The guy can’t even begin to think for himself without Darth - not that either of them have a compelling argument, unfortunately.

[@SkepticGeneration]

As far as we're concerned, Darth Dawkins is a coward who has been explicitly invited to call in and instead sends his lackeys. Unfortunately Robin has gotten them both banned at this point.

[@ookeekthelibrarian]

Walt White , I watched that video of Darth and the Darthettes at the Legion of Doom plotting what words to use to bring about the downfall of Atheists.

[@starfishsystems]

@@ookeekthelibrarian Yep, it's just a matter of saying the right Magic Words and then those pesky atheists shall be defeated. Can you think of anything more cynical than holding rhetoric above truth?

[@ericbatterson7720]

It's amazing that Darth is training people.

[@stephenquelch5197]

.​@@SkepticGeneration

[@adamgodfrey6591]

His adoption of Darth’s ‘okay’ after each sentence is both hilarious and sad in equal measure

[@fergusdenoon1255]

We go as far back to the point where the justified position is "I don't know" What you don't do is replace the "I don't know" with something else and pretend you do know.

[@shanewilson7994]

Yup, I'm in a discussion with someone trying to do that with the Kalam. Basically if I don't know, then his assertion must be true.

[@fergusdenoon1255]

@@shanewilson7994it's a weird argument, not only does it presuppose the cosmos began to exist, it also seems to negate that somethings come into existance because of something else's demise.

[@shanewilson7994]

@@MrOttopants yup, and that's pretty much my point to them. Is we don't know. But they want to assert they do know, yet when asked to support they claim their answer is "what other possibilities exist?" And when I provide some, they want evidence that they are true. Its like, dude, I'm not the one making assertions about what is true, other than the fact that we don't know what the answer is.

[@gowdsake7103]

@@shanewilson7994 The kalam is so dishonest

[@pointbreak8646]

Its obvious with believers that they need during their lifeline an answer to how the universe came into existence etc, it's a comforting belief which is something ive never needed, as niel de grasse Tyson said 'the universe does not owe us an explanation' to which I totally agree. We are born, live the best lives we can, give it purpose, we die and cease to exist. I dont know what is so hard in excepting that?! If there is an afterlife then great but there is no evidence that we do. I remember hearing a Christian say 'there has to be an afterlife, there has to be more than this' I couldnt believe it. how unappreciative it made that individual sound. My father told me 'life is not a rehearsal, this is it' I am not going to hold a comfortable delusion or belief that anything exists after we die. It is not rational. Being alive should be something to be very grateful for. Christianity gives the impression to me that the afterlife with jesus is the be all and end all. The bloke if existed seems like a right twat. The belief in a God is a comforting thing for people and there is no physical demonstrable evidence for ones existence, at all!

[@brotherben4357]

Host: “I’d just like to ask some questions about your personal revelation.” Presup: “I’ll answer you later.” (They never answer later)

[@01Aigul]

Robin's basically saying ""my willingness to make shit up trumps your willingness to admit that there are things that you don't know".

[@praiseboognish1979]

Robin’s logic: 1) Insist on a single, unprovable, unfalsifiable claim. 2) insist that his opponents’ unwillingness to cop to said claim somehow invalidates their entire world view 3) repeat ad nauseam 4) pat self on the back.

[@eduardopalmerin9520]

“Robin, wtf are you doing here?” Loved it, putting it on a mug

[@nollattacykel]

Robin has been listening too much to Darth, he has adopted the annoying "okay", after every other scentence. The objective of the Darth Squad seems more like making atheists look stupid rather than making a case for Christianity. What a poor life style. Kudos to Vi for using the standard Darth phrase: "Dude, listen to me. Listen to me. Listen to me!"

[@Julian0101]

Yep, the best example of that is his 'interview' with Pine Creek, poor darth didnt knew what hit him.

[@nollattacykel]

@@Julian0101 Thank you, hadn't heard that before.

[@StannisHarlock]

"Completely lost" = An incoherent description of people who have survived for more than 20 years. Robin, you're wrong.

[@vinmakesthings]

I think this one is flexing his muscles on this show because he’s warming up for his own channel, if he doesn’t have one already. Not that he has muscles. He has a weak argument and he wants to wear you all down with repetition and condescension for an easy win. You’re right to ban him.

[@ericwilliams1659]

Darth would never allow Robin to have their own channel. That would be a betrayal to Darth's hierarchy.

[@TheMonk72]

No, he's just another of Darth Dawkins' flock of drones. He was cached by DD what to say, because DD won't step into a situation where he can't mute and ban people who are arguing against him.

[@zemorph42]

@@TheMonk72 Coached* caching is a different thing that is usually done by or with an electronic device. I just cleared my phone's cache yesterday

[@TheMonk72]

@@zemorph42 yup. Fat fingers 😁

[@zemorph42]

@@TheMonk72 Fumble-thumb here; I often need to edit my own comments to feel better about the grammar.

[@johns1625]

Step 1: Ask a really dumb question set up with presupposition Step 2: Repeat step 1 Step 3: Accuse interlocutor of refusing to answer the question Step 4: Become furious when asked to defend own position Step 5: Accuse interlocutor of "overtalking me" or being "obnoxious troll" Step 6: Rage quit and claim victory in your room full of 15 year old boys with no friends

[@jimbob3030]

Nailed it.

[@jayv9779]

This argument is just, "If you don't believe in god you can't know anything. Nana Nana Boo Boo." I don't see why Robin thinks it is a worthwhile one.

[@riffhammeron]

I think his argument is, "If there isn't a God, you can't know anything." I think belief is beside the point for him.

[@quantize]

presups are the angry idiots of apologia

[@jayv9779]

@@riffhammeron Either way. Not a good argument.

[@Heathen.Deity.]

I think it’s primarily because he’s a bumblenugget who hasn’t seen the intimate flesh of another since his mother.

[@1369Stiles]

@@Heathen.Deity. i dont know why exactly, but that had me cackling with laughter

[@onetruetroy]

“It's Over, Anakin, I Have the High Ground”

[@Joviaero]

Please have Thomas on more often, I loved this dynamic

[@JBee887]

I agree. Eric and Vi have always been phenomenal together...but having Thomas AND vi together was also phenomenal.

[@hayleycomet8029]

These theist arguments are so vapid it's really sad that because of such a lack of evidence they've resulted to tying their brains in knots trying to define their beliefs true. The folly is that you could use their arguments to prove every other god.. even if you grant them their 'must be a creator' argument, it still doesn't get them one inch closer to Christianity being true. It's truly pathetic, and the arrogance they have is so unjustified. I think deep down they desperately envy atheists, and this is their big cope.

[@hayleycomet8029]

@@kwahujakquai6726 Well I find unsubstantiated arguments to be vapid lol

[@1369Stiles]

@@kwahujakquai6726 blah, blah, blah......put some ranch on that salad.....for gods sake. nihilism is most certainly vapid

[@arentol7]

@@kwahujakquai6726 You do not know the mind of any other being. Also, if we were to assum you were correct then you are also appear to be describing yourself with this post. In fact, given you know only your own mind it would be a safe argument that all you are doing is describing yourself.

[@TheSnoeedog]

Hey! Great word choice! I refer to "vapid, bloviating imbeciles" all the time, in these strings! I don't read *vapid* often unless its one of my comments.... High Five! (?)

[@aemiliadelroba4022]

The caller was intentionally dishonest . all his arguments are logically impossible to prove and he knows that so he invents God as ultimate answer .

[@theunholyhorseman7139]

Very well handled, you two. As with Darth himself, his minions cannot be reasoned with in any way.

[@Solenum756]

Robin is trying so hard to stick to that script he is just determined to get that gotcha out

[@gregoryh9442]

Robin, Show us the coffee in the cup. Period.

[@onlimi616]

Robin's argument boils down to, "You don't know X." X can be the beginning of the universe, abiogenesis, anything where science has not yet given a definitive answer. "Since you don't know X, that proves that I'm right, that God did it." "I know X and the answer for everything in the universe. God did it." "Nah, nah, nah, nah....I know everything and you don't know anything because you don't believe what I believe." Annoying, repetitive, circular argument that never goes anywhere. The only good part was when Vi cut him off.

[@kathyletto]

The "How do you know how this cup was made?" was a good argument. Well done Vi.

[@Catholictomherbert]

It is not a matter of knowledge claims it’s a matter of the is, am, to be, what material constitutes a cups dependence on the table?

[@kathyletto]

@@Catholictomherbert so in order to understand how the cup was made you must first believe the table gave the cup purpose. Makes sense.

[@pascalsimioli6777]

@@Catholictomherbert It won't be a matter of knowledge claims when you prove it isn't. Neeext.

[@scotthoenle7693]

The hosts are so dumb it took them 5 minutes to admit coffee cups come from the big bang! Everyone knows that ;)

[@MAR1N4M1]

Vi was spot on. Thomas added very important points as well. Robin will stop wasting everyone's time. 😑

[@davids11131113]

Sometimes I think the entire point of presup is just to waste everyone’s time.

[@Anthonyprinciotti]

Once again, he immediately debunks his own "argument" and reveals his dishonesty simply by speaking with you. It demonstrates that 1) in spite of your lack of an "ultimacy", you do KNOW something, namely, how to understand and use language, and 2) he believes that you have this knowledge. Pathetic.

[@oxidize11]

I've been saying this for awhile. If my "world view" is incoherent, how were we able to have a conversation? How can nothing have meaning when you've understood me for the past 10 minutes? Shows the point is either moot, or false.

[@acason4]

👌🏻

[@dailyshadow]

They will just claim that you can use language because of god.

[@tatern3923]

Ya'll must be new here. It's about having justification, not knowledge. They fully agree everyone has knowledge...they disagree you can justify it without god.

[@acason4]

@@tatern3923 Nope, they specifically say: “you can’t know anything”. Darth says this to atheists at least 20x a day. Either way, neither claim makes coherent sense… 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@cosmonaut9540]

Darth and his cheerleading cultists are just pathetic. JRobin, quit servicing darth and get your own arguments that actually make sense.

[@sebidotorg]

@@unclecarmine6839 “Darth and him cheerleading cultists” isn’t correct, so “his” is just fine. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_pronouns for information on the correct use of pronouns.

[@ookeekthelibrarian]

Cosmonaut! , I'm sure if anyone of Dath's apostles tries to use their own arguments, they face excommunication from the church of Darthisms.

[@michaelmay5453]

@@epicurusstan3223 Well you are not allowed to question it and any disagreement is just discarded as not part of the only argument that exists. So yeah, it's a fucking cult and Gary Milne (the infamous wife and child abuser) is their leader.

[@ArKritz84]

The religion of Darthianity is predicated on the belief that Darth Derpkins can actually formulate a sound logical argument. There is news, but it's NOT good...

[@michaelmay5453]

@@ArKritz84 See this guy.... This guy gets it. Gary isn't intelligent, he just demands that people tell him what he wants them to say or he mutes them. He's as useless as a condom on a Gary Milne.

[@dustinmorton942]

That is the best rebuttal I've ever heard on these shows "where is your butt-unicorn, Robin?"

[@Therian13]

Butt-Unicorn underwear! Very appropriate.

[@parsivalshorse]

Very well done guys.

[@PariahQuail]

What’s the question? The ULTIMATE QUESTION of LIFE, THE UNIVERSE, AND EVERYTHING!!! But what’s the question? EVERYTHING. YOU KNOW…. EVERYTHING. That’s Douglas Adams making fun of theologians. JRobin really needs to read the Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.

[@andreaskarlsson5251]

42 times to grasp it.

[@Catholictomherbert]

Explain all things or prove the existence of things

[@ookeekthelibrarian]

Robin will never read Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy, because his god did not write it. LOL

[@Catholictomherbert]

@@ookeekthelibrarian hitchhikers guide is terrible it’s like reading Ludwig von Mises on libertarian economics

[@ookeekthelibrarian]

@@Catholictomherbert It had some good bits, but you are right, it's mostly so/so. As you might have guested I'm rather fond of Pratchett.

[@drlegendre]

You know what a Robin is? A Robin is what you get when your omnipotent, omniscient god cannot speak so much as a single word for itself.

[@bazingaburg8264]

Well, it goes to a different school, you wouldn't know it 🤭

Paradoxically he is called a robin but he's actually a tit.

[@jonasking9587]

I say "I don't know" when I don't know. It's fine. There's a lot I don't know.

[@jdevlin1910]

I can hear this guy wheezing from all the mental gymnastics he did to get to the point his god might exist

[@mikeyjones5901]

I've said it before, but Vi takes no shit.

[@symbiotesam3562]

You guys had a lot more patience with this clown than I would have.

[@dinosaurwhatyoudidthere4278]

Loooool!! Damn, first time I think I've seen Vi almost loose her shit... Love it! That guy is something else!! Lost cause I think, sadly. P.S., I'm not up to date with the episodes so not sure where u/ErictheHeathen is, but the cohost is awesome. Almost didn't notice the transition considering same hairstyle and facial hair etc lol

[@sebidotorg]

Please note that Vi goes by they/them, so they almost lost their shit.

[@philvogelfilms]

That's Thomas Westbrook, aka Holy Koolaid

[@Aging_Casually_Late_Gamer]

Can we just appreciate the fact that Christian's like this have such little actual evidence that they have to resort to this level of nonsense assertion.

[@digbycrankshaft7572]

No christians of any kind have any independent, convincing evidence for the existence of their god otherwise one of them would have provided it by now.

[@Fluffykeith]

da-da-da da, du-du-da-da da, da-da-da da, bum-bum-ba-dum bum bum bum bum da-da-da da-da-da-da-da-da bum bum... da-da-da-da-da They're talking together And trying to get through... But he isn't listening He's blinkered its true, yeah There's just no point in going on He's wasting time (wasting time!) Will Team Darth ever try again??? It's the Final Showdown! da-da-da da, du-du-da-da da, da-da-da da, bum-bum-ba-dum bum bum bum bum The Final Showdown! Oh he's talking in waffle But still they stand tall Cos his argument's awful His reasoning small, yeah There's so many ways it could go He wants an ultimate ground (ultimate ground) I'm sure we won't miss him, no.... It's the Final Showdown! da-da-da da, du-du-da-da da, da-da-da da, bum-bum-ba-dum bum bum bum bum The Final Showdown etc

[@loki6626]

🤣🤣👏👏👏👏

[@atheisticgreyblob3284]

I love that hes received the same answer in a variety of ways that still apply to his question, and he just doesn't like that answer so he claims he received none. No my friend, theres a difference between receiving an answer you dont like, and not receiving an answer at all.

[@arsgratia]

remember: Carl Sagan once said in order to bake an apple pie, you first have to create the universe.

[@stueyapstuey4235]

hmm - that's kind of sloppy from Dr Sagan. I can bake an apple pie just by having the ingredients, a kitchen and the positive conditions in this reference frame where these things can be combined. That is very much not 'creating' a universe!

[@dinosaurwhatyoudidthere4278]

@@stueyapstuey4235 but bro, you can't bake anything without the ingredients. So a universe must have been created first, so the stuff to create a cake exists

[@johnmakovec5698]

@@dinosaurwhatyoudidthere4278 Can you demostrate nothing?

[@digbycrankshaft7572]

​@@johnmakovec5698there is no requirement to demonstrate nothing and not all physicists agree what nothing actually is.

[@johnmakovec5698]

@@digbycrankshaft7572 exactly

[@telsonater]

“If you don’t wear crocs, you can’t ultimately roast a chicken.”

[@billglenn10]

Vi & Thomas did a great job of making their point(s) and reeling the conversation back on track multiple times - Bravo… (my new favorite channel)

[@darksoul479]

Robin is the classic example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

[@EuclidFusionSupernova]

Both hosts were impressive -- but "Vi" is an absolute intellectual BEAST! Loved it!!!!

[@rubeau__]

Here's the easiest way of dealing with presups: 1. immediately grant (for the sake of the conversation) that you're wrong 2. Start exploring and questioning their "logic" Their tactic is to drag you through a long ontological questionnaire and confuse you to claim victory, but never to substantiate their own worldview. So, just take them off the script and see it all crumble.

[@jayv9779]

Daaaaaaamn Vi. That was like a finishing move from Mortal Kombat. They don't play games.

[@Therian13]

Logictality.... Flawless Vi-tory...

[@ericdubay2201]

Who doesn't play games?

[@jayv9779]

@@ericdubay2201 They don't. I am speaking about Vi.

[@rajanogray9088]

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is the causal basis for everything.

[@benaberry578]

This metaphysical rationalist approach is grounded in induction… positing a foundation derived by induction only gets you to an assumed theory of what grounds everything … so metaphysical grounding leads to an asserted ultimate nothing more.

[@locutusdborg126]

Yep. This dying need for "the ultimate" cracks me up. My response: whoever created your god is the ultimate.

[@davids11131113]

I don’t believe there can be a ‘thing’ which grounds and is the basis for ‘everything’ .... because if there’s a thing it must be in the group of every-thing.

[@jeffc5974]

@@davids11131113 But they love making up rules that apply to everything, to prove that their thing that doesn't follow the rule exists. Truly dizzying.

[@markklippenberg7364]

Robin would be an utter JOY to hurt, grievously and repeatedly

[@BenBarredo]

This conversation is so dumb. He hasn't proven anything yet he's demanding you give him a whatever the hell he's asking for. So dumb.

[@Therian13]

Not even entirely sure what he was even asking for... I THINK he was just waiting to hear the word "Big Bang" though... but not really sure...

[@scotthoenle7693]

Robin shouldve just given up right at the start and argued that coffee is bean juice.

[@ericwilliams1659]

I am still waiting on the Darth crew to prove that this ultimate base creator is the Protestant Christian God.

[@johnmcclure40]

Hey now, that's jumping the gun. They still have to prove that it exists at all first.

[@deedrabbit]

Later on Darths server.... "How did I do daddy Darth?" "I give you a B-, but you can improve"

[@utubepunk]

Hey Robin, less ego flexing & more demonstration that your claims are true.

[@markshepperson3603]

‘I’m going to clarify what YOU believe’

[@davids11131113]

Darth and his Lost Boys are just argument hobbyists.

[@carter358]

The lengths these people will go to - these adults, many of whom are college educated - will go to to justify their imaginary friend are unbelievable.

[@trekkiejunk]

The thing is, even if you were to grant the caller his deistic version of god as an initial cause (since he seems to grant the Big Bang), then what would he have really gained? Even if he is right, all of science still works as we predict, and as Vi pointed out..."I still know there's coffee in this mug." His version of knowing the pre-history of pre-history adds nothing to any practical understanding of the universe.

[@starfishsystems]

It's worse than adding nothing of practical value. It's logically contradictory. Proposing even a hypothetical "initial cause" as NECESSARY requires demonstrating the necessity, not just asserting it on no evidence. That's because the argument begins by asserting, as motivation for this entire speculative exercise, that "everything has a cause," and now we're being asked to make a special exception which violates the very rule that motivated the exercise. Why should we allow this contradiction into the argument? What is the justification? I suspect the honest answer is "because I really really want it to be true." It's an infantile epistemology, though I suppose it still qualifies as an epistemology. It has nothing to do with the discipline of ontology, except as a way of making a bad argument appear more sophisticated.

[@brianmonks8657]

Robin is a great example of why Presupps are the lowest rotting fruit on the apologetics tree. He loves the "If I can show you believe something without evidence or that has a cause then god exists by default!" and "you can't give evidence that reality exists therefore it's the same as believing in a god!!" He's tried that often enough that I'm glad he's blocked.

[@mzavros]

Darth Derp strikes again

[@rickvade]

We can explain the causes within the last 14 Billion years....Robin has a theory of the cause before 14 billion years ago. Ok got it, that's Robin for your participation.

[@LoveProWrestling]

clever clever, therefore god.

[@ericbatterson7720]

Unless your mechanic is an evangelical Christian, they cannot know how to fix your house.

[@brucewayne7875]

Vi was absolutely fantastic at dismantling this clown.

[@absquereligione5409]

“I know everything and you don’t. And I don’t have to demonstrate it because I know everything “

[@Canubus]

Vi's explanation here was just /chefkiss I freakin loved it. They're so good at what they do I wish they'd make MORE content.

[@pl5994]

My worldview of what provides causal justification is something I label "ggod". The only two attributes I have determined (so far) for "ggod" are that: 1. "ggod" can sufficiently serve as foundation for causal justifications. 2. "ggod" contains more "g" than "god".

[@sycofreake1]

I would have had him on one more time, just to explain how to apply his "logic" in a way that would result in a different conclusion to ours. Like Eric pointed out, if someone makes a claim about a wallet, you look in the wallet. So how, other than the bs "you have no foundation" nonsense that he spouts is he even religious?

[@Therian13]

In this scenario, I was getting more of this kind of vibe from Robin: "Do you have a wallet?" -"Yes, it's right here" "How do you know it's a wallet??" -"Compare it to other known wallets, use an agreed upon definition of what a wallet is, ask the professional wallet makers, etc". "Well how do you know what the wallet's "causal basis" are?!" -" The what? Do you mean what the wallet is made from? I would say probably leather...possibly cloth fibers or plastic in some cases" "But what is the ORIGINAL "casual basis" of the wallet??!!" - "Why do you keep using that word? What does it even mean? Do you mean animals or plants?" "Why won't you answer the question?!?!?!?" - "Because we aren't even sure what you are asking!" "WHY CANT YOU ANSWER IT?! WHY ARE YOU AVOIDING THE QUESTION?! WHERE DO WALLETS COME FROM?!" - "...what does this have even do with the original question?"

[@sparki9085]

Is his argument just, "you don't know therefore god!"

[@beanbrewer]

He's missing the possible doppelganger part that holds DD's house of cards argument together

[@rageforthemachine]

Robin did commit a contradiction at around 7:00. He said we can't know anything until we establish a basis. Yet how do we arrive at a basis if we have no way to determine it's truth in the first place?

[@willowwisp357]

Jesus F'ing Christ! I can't believe how hard it is for theist to admit they don't know something. The difference between knowledge and ignorance is that knowledge is limited. The more I learn the more ignorant I realize I am.

[@Robeebert]

"Lazy and dishonest" is the best way to describe DarthLite, but I think today "uninspiring" fits in there too.

[@ookeekthelibrarian]

Robeeb , gobshite is acceptable as well.

[@JayJay-two]

He's trying to get the hosts to say "Big Bang", and getting annoyed that they won't say it. Hilarious. Sad little theist. Trying to say "nothing comes from nothing" So sad. No real argument. Just trying for a "Gotcha". Sad😢

[@ericbatterson7720]

Soneone should just claim Aristotle's Prime Mover is the ultimate. They cant deny it, but it doesnt get them to Christianity

[@studlord9970]

"I'm so smart, if I don't understand it, it must be magic."

[@Catholictomherbert]

Have you tried divination

[@danemassie3750]

Robin is a bird nested in the worlds dumbest tree, he fell out of the dumb tree as a hatchling and hit every branch on the way down

[@tryintoreason9738]

"Define your terms..." Robin: "Here's a rough analogy..." And that's where you hang up. Useful terms are simple to define. You don't need analogies.

[@johnnehrich9601]

So satisfying - will have to watch this clip any time I get frustrated with ANY theist's word games and circular reasoning.

[@Whiskey.T.Foxtrot]

This isn't difficult... this caller is just substituting 'ultimate' for 'god' and failing to provide evidence for the claim that this is necessary or existent.

[@vidfreak56]

For the same reason we can have a conversation with robin, we can also have a basis for the world we live in.

[@cgillespie78]

His question is smuggling in God. Saying there is a single cause for everything is the same as saying "I believe in God". The reason Atheists can't answer, "what is the one cause for everything?" is that we are Atheists! By definition we don't think that a single cause leads to all events. A more reasonable answer is: I don't know if there is an ultimate cause, but I know that I poured coffee in this cup this morning , so as to the question of whether my cup contains juice or coffee, 7 O'clock is as far back as I need to go.

[@twig8523]

Well said. As for reasonable answers, we can see the "further back we go" we find more & more complex intersections of multiple causes, for even simple observations like how a mug was produced. So even if we try to logically deduce beyond plank time, claiming a single causal source is a ridiculous assertion, even if it wasn't their preferred supernatural deity.

[@marq.marquette1874]

@@twig8523 Huh? The further back you go you get to a signal point. You yourself is made of trillions of cells that came from a single cell multiplying. The coffee mug started from a single grain of sand so its actually more logical to think everything came from a single source.

[@twig8523]

@@marq.marquette1874 the mug started from thousands of different particles spread far apart. A complex series of multiple effects brought them closer together. A complex series of causes put into motion the causes that caused the assembly of the mug, each of those causes...

[@marq.marquette1874]

@@twig8523 You are starting from the middle, if you go back even farther those series of effects come from simpler effects. To argue complexity comes from even more complex things is an argument for God.

[@twig8523]

@@marq.marquette1874 I'm starting from now. And as I wanted to reply to Robin several times when he asked "how far back do you go?" We go back as far as is necessary from the now, to have explanatory power on whatever we're investigating. "We" also exclude the vast majority of causes in our focus on a single factor as we do so. Causal effect would not have to revert to a "singularity" as well. I understand why it seems logical that the causes would stay to reduce back down again. That hit me after I posted as well. However... When all matter is in an unimaginably small dense point, when quantum & astrophysics are put on the same scale, when all matter in the universe is pressed up against all other matter in the universe, that sounds like an incalculably massive immediate causal forces effecting and being effected by one another... And still it seems that if anything the causal effects are always potentially infinite an incalculable. They actually may never increase nor decrease... But we're just pontificating on some high-concept, big-brained fart-sniffing.

[@劉炎-p9z]

we don't need any basis to go back to at all, instead, we need to go forward. practice is the ultimate and only arbitor. The basis for everything is 'it works'

[@Sharetheroad3333]

So Vi gave robin the credit of being “smart.” Is he? I have listened to him several times and he goes on and on, clearly trying to create a gotcha moment, and seems to think his questions have deep meaning when in reality he isn’t even engaging. I guess those are the symptoms of trying to follow a script. I don’t know.

[@nagranoth_]

Just because you want there to be an ultimate cause does not mean people need to accept whatever cause you made up without evidence. The only honest position is; IF there is such a thing as an ultimate cause, we don't have enough evidence to determine it exists or what it is. The difference is that the hosts are honest in basing their beliefs on what we actually know about reality, while the caller wants to reject it all, because our understanding isn't complete and just insert replace it all with magic.

[@demontooth0428]

His name is Gary. Not darth.

[@spookyariel1]

He's an beligerant ass.

[@mdug7224]

I am going to build a shrine to the butt unicorn and rekindle my faith.

[@ZenWithKen]

When will the 'I love my butt unicorn!' tee shirts be going on sale?

[@lmoral222]

That moment near the end when Vi straightened out that coat after telling Robin how it is. Ah yes, the moment of _you just got rekked nub_ UwU

[@Detson404]

I had high hopes for Robin. He was Darth without the sociopathy. Unfortunately, his argument requires a filibustering sociopath in order to work.

[@weirdgirl4611]

I like the fact that Thomas is just chilling.

[@amyv8416]

From the question posted about whether Robin should be banned, I was expecting more shit-losing. I would have tried to reach through the internet to slap Robin with a large, dead fish. Fish-Slapl!

[@amyv8416]

@Toughen Up, Fluffy listening again, Robin doesn't deserve a dead fish.

[@AlexPBenton]

For how far back I go when demonstrating something ontologically, I go back as far as is necessary to reach a point of agreement. It is generally possible to go further beyond that, but it is almost never necessary to get down to the actual most fundamental origins of things. Also, he is conflating the physical causes of something with the expirations which we can find. Once we observe something, we don’t have to explain how it became that way necessarily.

[@theriffwriter2194]

Are you ready to learn Dawkins' entire strategy for arguing theism? "What is 2+2?" "4." "I'm sorry. What? I'm gonna ask again. What is 2+2?" "4." "I don't think you understand the question. So I'm going to ask one more time..." And there it is: No matter what string of words one forms to answer their (as in one hive-mind) question they pretend to be unsatisfied and they simply ask again. Ad fucking nauseam. NOW THAT YOU PEOPLE HAVE BEEN EXPOSED YOU OFFICIALLY HAVE ZERO REASON TO EVER CALL ANOTHER CALL-IN SHOW AGAIN!!!

[@WilbertLek]

I have to thank all "gods-believers" for demonstrating that I am not damaged enough to be one.