The Ford 460! The Greatest Ford Engine Of All Time! But What Was It's Shortcomings?

[@BareRoseGarage]

You know for sure I'm right with you on this. The 385 is BY FAR the best way to go if you are looking for BBF Power. As for the pistons though, they used those "shallow dish" in RV's in the 70's as well. That '77 E-350 Motorhome I pulled my 460 out of has those in it, but with the "middle deck" internal balanced block. But Boy Oh Boy you nailed it Rock Solid on those "Berkley Fords". Flat Tops, Close Chamber DOVE heads, they used the CJ Cam in them and if you can find a Berkley Ford the cast iron intake on them are closer to the Edelbrock RPM intake. The Runners are a lot bigger. Every time a Jet Boat comes up on FB Marketplace I look to see if it's Ford-Gold for pennies on the dollar.... lolololol. The biggest mistake I see people make with the 385's is that they try to make it into something it isn't. If you want something that's going to spin 10K RPM and hold for 100K miles this isn't for you. But that's the beauty of these things, you don't have to spin them to the moon to lay down the numbers you are looking for. Great Stuff as always man!

[@BlackLabGarage]

Thank you for your kind words. Oddly enough that 460 beside of me came from an E-350 although it was a 1986 model and it had the big dish pistons in it. Something I forgot to mention in the video was that the 1993-1997 460 piston uses a low tension metric ring pack which as we all know is a far better set up. I actually pulled a running 460 out of a 1995 F-350 that had pulled a 22ft enclosed cattle trailer pretty much every day of its life and the engine had well over 200,000 miles on it. It had a knock but it wasn't a rod knocking. The piston skirts were worn thin and one skirt had broken off and that's what was causing the knock. You are correct that people try to do the 460 like the do Pontiac V8's. Try to make them into a high rpm engine and they don't need to be. They run on torque! Although I have seen one stroker 460 turn 8,000 rpm's before lol.

[@MsKatjie]

I am commenting before watching. In Oz we had little exposure to this magnificent engine. But it's little Bro, the 351C was big here. we even cast them for about 10 years. So I will watch with interest. cheers.

[@BlackLabGarage]

Yeah I wish we could have gotten the the 351 Cleveland here for that long. I do have a set of 351C 4V closed chamber screw in stud heads here but I can’t find a block to put them on. I ran into a guy a while back and he had five 351 Cleveland’s sitting but he would not sell me one. Not even a regular 351C 2V engine

[@MsKatjie]

I would sell you one cheap but it has to come half a world away!@@BlackLabGarage

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@MsKatjie I appreciate that. I've had one 351C in all these years and of course the crank was bad in it lol.

[@shaneminor2367]

With just a little knowledge it’s super simple to make a reliable 500hp and torque engine that will last 1k miles easily. My friends and I used them all throughout the 80s and 90s and I still run them today. Great engines! And you’re a 100% correct they are very heavy. Nice work! People shouldn’t sleep on this engine!!!! Keep the videos coming. And bring back the tractor videos too. They’re great content. Thanks!

[@BlackLabGarage]

NO!!!!! Don't tell people not to sleep on them! If they sleep on them then that leaves more 460's for us! 😂The 460 you see beside of me is going in my 4x4 that you see. But later on I have a fuel injected 460 that will be going in the white 1979 F-350. I will be using the fuel injected heads and intake but with a carburetor. I quit uploading tractor stuff because it seemed that most people on this channel prefer the car and truck stuff. So I started a second channel to put my farm and tractor stuff on. I haven't put much on it yet but I have some videos almost ready for it. The channel is Black Lab Farms

[@shaneminor2367]

@@BlackLabGarage nice to know. I will definitely check it out. I appreciate all the time that you spend making content. Keep up the good work.

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@shaneminor2367 Thank You for your kind words!

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@shaneminor2367 sorry it can be found @Black_Lab_Farms

[@shaneminor2367]

@@BlackLabGarage Thank you sir, I thought I was doing something wrong. Lol I’m not the most tech savvy person. Lol

[@mikeb2368]

Can't get enough 460 content, nice to know i don't have to break the bank building mine. My 77 had been rebuilt in the 80s bored to 488 . I have headers , aluminum intake and your exhaust port job n i think I'm good. Thanks!

[@BlackLabGarage]

That should make a stout engine!

[@shanegamble3746]

Agreed. I have run them all. 429, 429 PI, 429 CJ and 460. I have had up to seven spare 460s in my collection. Right now, I am down to one 460 with D3 heads. Later model 460 FI truck engines have the best factory rods that are even better than the 429 CJ rod. The small end has more metal to prevent bending. My next build will have aluminum heads and intake going into a 1985 Fox body. Nothing exceeds like excess. 😁

[@BlackLabGarage]

Aluminum heads will help a lot, cause steering a fox body with a 429/460 in it with cast iron heads is like steering a walmart buggy with a drunk sumo wrestler in it🤣

[@b-17wingman37]

I m with you brother ! The 460 kicks butt all day long . Very informative video , great job . For those that may not know , the blocks are a thin wall casting . Best to not go over .060 on bore . If you do , is a good idea to get block SONIC CHECKED . The process gives an accurate wall thickness where the cooling passages are . Rods are all cast the same , correct me if im wrong . The square head rod bolts are spot faced and are prone to breaking . The football ones are broached .

[@BlackLabGarage]

Believe it or not I’ve never seen either of those rods break on the big end. Usually if they break it’s in the beam.

[@davestewart9146]

I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience on the 460, thank you Sir 👍😁

[@BlackLabGarage]

Your welcome! Thank you for your kind words!

[@captainschannel9331]

Great info 🏴‍☠️

[@BlackLabGarage]

Thank You!

[@darrellseike3185]

Porting a set of the older, non-fuel injected heads, is very similar to porting Cleveland heads.

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@darrellseike3185 yes, they are very similar

[@robertgonzalez8840]

The timing chains wear out, the cam@crank are too far apart. Also, the waterpump bypass hose is the only other weak link...maybe the rollpin in the dist. Thats it!

[@BlackLabGarage]

I’ve never had them wear a timing chain any faster than any other Ford engine? They have a bypass hose just like most all the other Ford engines? FE’s have a bypass hose and small block Fords have a bypass hose. Only engines that didn’t have a bypass hose was the 351C, 351M, and 400. The distributor coil pin is the same as the other Ford engines so I’m not sure why you think the 429/460 coil pin is bad?

[@robertclymer6948]

Hey there Robert! Just think back to the late 60's when GM was using Neoprene timing chains, like I had in my 69 GTO Judge 400 ram air 4. It melted while running hard on the freeway. lol I'd just convert to the Double roller with straight up timing. Cheers from Motown.

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@robertclymer6948 I reckon the plastic coated timing sprockets was the thing for the time. Thankfully they came out with double roller timing chains lol

[@trucking604]

I’ve seen a 460 PI with 4 bolt main caps. The compression dropped in 1972. It was still high in 1971.

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@trucking604 I’ve never seen a 4 bolt main 460 although I’m sure they exist. I have seen 4 bolt 429’s though so I’m sure some were built into 460’s. I say 1971 because you have to remember that the 1972 models came out in mid 1971. So just because you find a car that was built in 1971 with a 460 doesn’t automatically mean it will be high compression. Then there is situations like the roller 351 Windsor block. It will say F4TE on the block which means 1994. But that block was installed in 1993 model trucks and broncos! I have one here that came out of a 1993 F-250. So the best thing to do when your looking at an engine that is close to a changeover year is to look at the head casting numbers just to be safe.

[@trucking604]

@@BlackLabGarage I know, the 429 SCJ’s were 4 bolt main and the 460 “Lincoln” engine during that era were 2 bolt main, but that 460 PI did have bolt mains, I don’t recall what year though, been awhile ago. Don’t remember if it was a hi compression 1971 or earlier or 1972 or later low compression. From what I was told, there was a 460 police cruiser, which was a 2 bolt main and a pretty stock block, and the 460 police interceptor, which had the 4 bolt mains and supposedly high-performance hi-flow heads, intake manifold, cam, etc. Almost like a 460 version Cobra Jet. I know, it sounds odd. Ford did some odd things sometimes.

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@trucking604 I have seen a couple of police Intercepter engines. The heads are close to SCJ heads but still not quite SCJ heads. I know of one police interceptor engine not far from me. It busted a piston skirt with relatively low miles. Still has the PI heads and stuff on it but it’s a two bolt main block. Never heard of the police cruiser engine before though

[@popwall4297]

You mentioned Aluminum Intake well you're definitely right and I screwed up there my 460 was running great with very little modification I put an elderbrock aluminum intake on it and I could tell the first time I drove it man I have lost a lot of torque

[@BlackLabGarage]

With an Edelbrock Performer intake you shouldn't lose any torque. Its just an aluminum copy of the factory cast iron intake. But all the others you will lose low end torque.

[@janier124]

I'm a ford guy all the way but tell the truth 460 do have the same oiling problem the 351c have and 460 main bearing and rod bearing speeds are to fast and these are facts. All of the good aftermarket 460 blocks have same mains

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@janier124 the 385 series does have the same style oiling system as the 335 series engines but they don’t seem to have the problems with the bearings that the 335 engines do. I’ve never had a 429/460 that had rod knock or anything but I’ve seen a bunch of 351M/400 that had the rods hammering in them lol

[@fgpriceinc]

A little late here but thought I'd give my 2 cents. I agree , the 460 is one of the best Ford made. It has some of the good qualities of the 302 which was also a great engine. It is also extremely long lasting. It is too bad they developed it so late. If it were developed in the early 60's like the chevy big block, it would have had a more interesting future for sure. I love mine and learned to have a real appreciation for them from building it.

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@fgpriceinc the early model 429/460’s wouldn’t last as long as the later models would. Just like the 302, the late model 302’s with the low tension metric rings would last 2-3 times as long as the early models. The 460 got the same treatment. It’s too bad that they never got a factory roller camshaft like the small blocks did

[@ElvinLeadfoot]

Good Presentation Informative and thorough:) 460 - 1985 Thunderbird: (Operation Thunderchicken)

[@BlackLabGarage]

I always liked the body style of the 1985 Thunderbirds

[@jdedmnds1]

The bottom end should turn 6500 RPM. A good balance job and you could spin it 6500 all day long. Don't try to do it with the factory ignition box, it has a built in rev limiter around 5000

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@jdedmnds1 I’ve seen the stock bottoms ends turn higher than that and live before lol. But this one is going in my 4x4 truck so it won’t be turning high rpm’s. My Howard’s camshafts power band is 1500-4800 so it wouldn’t turn much over 5,000 anyway

[@jdedmnds1]

@@BlackLabGarage I put mine in a 65 mustang. Haven't got it running yet but used to have it in a 78 f150 2x4.

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@jdedmnds1 you must have taken the shock towers out cause it’s tight even with a 351 Windsor in there.

[@jdedmnds1]

@@BlackLabGarage The entire front end including half the firewall is from a 67 cougar.

[@mikecarignan7002]

Thanks for the post. I have a 1985 F250 with a 460. It is a runny fool you’re right I also have a 352 in my 66 pick up love them both.

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@mikecarignan7002 a 1985 model 460 would still have the retarded timing set and the low compression pistons. You would be amazed at how much difference the straight up timing set by itself will make. Get the compression up to 9:1 plus a straight up timing set and it becomes a totally different engine. Plus you get better fuel economy. The 352 is a good engine. Far better than the 360 that replaced it in the trucks. People think that I don’t like the FE engines but that’s not true. I even built a 390 and put in my 1974 F-350 and it was a great engine and I got 13mpg out of a ton flat bed dually. But the 385 series engines (429/460) are much cheaper to build and you get more cubic inches which equals more power cheaper than you can building the FE engines.

[@januarythird4472]

Same with 87?

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@januarythird4472 as in what? What are you asking about a 1987 model 460?

[@januarythird4472]

@@BlackLabGarage yes 1987

[@januarythird4472]

Going to have the timing downgrade but does it still have the cereal bowl piston

[@ktmcc4360]

What do you think of the last few years? I have two 1997 460s. Looking to get some upgrades...

[@BlackLabGarage]

The last years of the 460 being the 1993-1997 was some of the best built 460's that there was. What killed them was the fuel injection system. That very same engine with some porting, slightly bigger intake valve, very mild cam upgrade, headers, and a carburetor is a 400hp engine.

[@mechanknuckle]

I've been a 460 fanatic for years. It is better in several ways than a BBC. However the Ford engineers designed it to fit in shock tower cars, and that really hurt the exhaust side of the head. They need work to make them flow optinmally, but when they do... they DO. If you took the greatness of a BBC head and the 385 bottom end, you'd have a truly killer combo. I run a roller cam 468 in my Torino. It's a monster. Crazy torque and it can spin too.

[@BlackLabGarage]

I have seen a solid flat tappet lifter 514 Ford turn 8,000rpms before. This was an old school stroker built before Eagle ever existed. I guess the crankshaft was offset ground but I remember it had 440 Chrysler rods in it. That's wicked sound hearing a BBF turning that many rpm's!

[@BlackLabGarage]

The 385 series suffered from the exhaust basically having to make a U turn to get out but even the 335 series was designed that way which I don't understand because they were smaller and had more room from the head to the shock towers.

[@elainestamper3873]

I had my all original 1975 F150 460 engine blow up just driving at highway speed the rod blew apart!

[@BlackLabGarage]

Must of had a weak rod bolt?

[@dce428]

I going to have to say something here. I have a couple of 460s. One is in my. 96 F350. I like them they are robust. But the OEM heads. Suck. Only 135. Cfm on the exhaust. A FE 390 flows 176. Big difference. And telling people you have to cross bolt a 390. For just 400 - 500 hp. In not true. My poor man's jet make over 600 easy. Spun it 7100. For years in my 82. Fox body. Drag car. Just a Standerd. D4-te. 2 bolt block put around a 1000 passes on that block for years. Ran 6,50s at 104.mph. 1/8 Mile Through a C6. Trans. No fretting on the mains at all. Bearings looked great seen OEM. 390 cranks hold over 800 hp at over 8k. In super stock they are just as strong as a 429-460. Crank. Not much difference between them over all. My FE powered fox is called Tick Turd. Well known In The FE forums. Again I'm not knocking the 385 series motors. I like them. With the big aftermarket heads they rock. I'm just throwing it out there that a 390 2 bolt block has no issue spinning up to 7k. And making 600+. I've done it for years. As a budget racer. And been using 1964. 390 heads to run those times. Just my 2 cents 🖖

[@BlackLabGarage]

Well Scotty over at Parkland Automotive/ Reincarnation High Performance gets some really good power out of the fuel injected 460’s. With a valve upgrade, some porting, and a slight camshaft upgrade his fuel injected 460’s are putting out 414hp and 523lb ft of torque! That’s using the factory fuel injected intake manifold. The fuel injected heads may not be the biggest flowing head but they have more velocity than the earlier heads have. As far as crossbolting the FE’s Ford felt it was necessary. You are using a later model block with the extra main web reinforcement. That helps…but I wouldn’t try to turn a lot of rpms constantly with one of the earlier blocks that aren’t reinforced or cross bolted. Don’t get me wrong, I like the FE’s. But dollar for dollar you can build a 385 series that will walk all over an FE simply because it’s more cubic inches and a better designed engine. Everyone’s first suggestion for an FE is to put a stroker kit in them. The 429/460 already has the cubic inches in stock form.

[@dce428]

@@BlackLabGarage the reason why ford went with cross bolting is because of NASCAR they found in the draft they ran 10 mph faster that unloaded the cranks and by the same token. You don't see any. 460s. Turning constant hi rpm either instead. short burst. Is what they see if any rpm is involved their true advantage is. Bore size. But I have found in 1/8. Mile grudge a FE. Works just fine. Out ran a few. 460s. One even had. D00ve. Heads. Big roller my combo was D4-te. Block. 1ub. Crank OEM bore. C4ae 6090. Heads just old junk and a 150 lighter where the 460. Shines is in the big cid stroker and the big. Aftermarket heads that's now available now those are real monsters been to engine systems in Tucker ga. He builds true 385 monsters Ted admitted 400hp out of. a. 390. Is to easy now I love my F350 XLT. 460. Electronic overdrive. But it's not as strong as I feel it should be the engine is ford replacement only 106.000 on it. Runs great. Quiet. But lacking in power at this point I would be happy if I could just get it up to mid 60s. 390. Hp levels. And keep the fuel injection and electronics if you have some advice there or could point me to someone that does. I would be appreciative. I only commented because you were being a little harder on the FE. Then they deserve and some of the information on them. Was not accurate if you would like to talk more about them. Pros. Cons. In private I would be glade to go to anything FE. Fb. Forum. And ask the admin or a moderator about the FE. Fox. And they will contact me and we can talk in messenger. I like your videos and like I said I have both engine plate forms. Used both for decades. Take care 🖖

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@dce428 if I was choosing a 385 series for drag racing it would be a 429 instead of the 460. Big bore and shorter stroke. Now if I had quite a bit of money to throw into an engine for drag racing like I did years ago, I know what it would be. It would be a stroker Cleveland. As far as the FE’s the biggest point I was trying to make is the first thing everyone does is add a stroker kit to them. That’s over $2,000 and you still don’t have the cubic inches of a 460. You have to have a love for FE’s to spend a lot of money to build one because they cost a lot more to build than other Ford engines. As far as the fuel injected 460’s, I have one in waiting right now. Down the road I am going to pull the 400 from my F-350 and put the fuel injected 460 engine in it but using a carburetor. It will use the factory fuel injected manifold and stuff but have a carburetor bolted down on it. You’re kind of limited to what you can do to your truck because it’s speed density isn’t it? You didn’t say what year your truck was. The F3 460 head was better than the E7 head because they have a bigger intake valve. The 1993 and up 460’s also have a taller compression height piston which helps get them up out of the hole.

[@dce428]

@@BlackLabGarage my. F350. XLT. Is a. 96. With electronic overdrive E40d. Which uses the TPS among with several over sensors I believe I'm stuck in a box on this one for now

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@dce428 well for starters you could find a tuner that can tune the speed density computer or, get the computer and mass air meter from a 1996 California truck with a 460. They had mass air. That will let you do a lot more to it easily

[@ramonruybal9808]

I have 71 460 I believe I read that it was 10*1 compression stock

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@ramonruybal9808 yes…most 1971 460’s were still using the earlier D0VE head casting.

[@SuperdutyTruckLife]

What about the oiling system?

[@BlackLabGarage]

@@SuperdutyTruckLife what about it? It’s a better oiling system than the FE has for sure

[@dogismyco-pirate]

460 is a great engine but i think the 390 is a better all around engine? That being said i bleed ford all types all model's pre 72 except trucks have owned all years and loved them!

[@BlackLabGarage]

Without a doubt the 390 was Fords work horse engine. From powering F series trucks to Mustangs and Hi Po police cars. I think the 460 slightly edges it out because of the better oiling system and the canted valve heads. Plus the extra cubic inches of the 460. But that’s just my opinion.

[@popwall4297]

Somebody please let me know if this is a good engine for me to build I have a 67 RV that has a 460 in it so far I have built the heads just a little Edelbrock intake 750 Holley my plans are to go with a cam and headers not sure what I'm going to put this in just yet I'm still looking for a good donor donor vehicle what size cam is recommended I wanted to really sound good and hit a good lick but I don't want to kill vacuum and torque totally I remember back in the days and I'm 80 years old I built a Chevrolet and had so much Cam in it that was absolutely no vacuum to operate the brakes on the doggone thing I had it in which was a 61 Chevrolet what would be a good cam to put in this thing I like I said I wanted to hit a good lick and people know that hey he's coming also with a change in camshaft what other components like pushrods and Rockers would I have to use I understand there's two different lengths of the push rods don't have money for aluminum heads so I'm basically keeping everything in kind of a lower price range but I do want it to be a decent engine and maybe smoke the tires a little LOL

[@BlackLabGarage]

If you can hear the cam hit a lick then you are killing the low end torque which is what you want with an RV. The most I would go above the stock cam in your application is just one step up. Otherwise you will have a gas hog with no bottom end power. Like 204 intake duration @.050 and 214 exhaust duration @ .050 is the most I would go in an RV. Plus unless you have a 1968-1971 model 460 you will have a low compression 460 and they don't have enough compression to run a bigger camshaft. Bigger cams bleed off compression

[@allnonemechanics1604]

Officer do not try to open my door again

[@wander3605]

Amen😂