The Forgotten City Critique | Food for Thought

[@MontyZander]

Just so it doesn't get lost: Zoltiboi's Channel - kzbin.info/door/ZMRyw465TTMG_pykSfzj3A Major thanks to him for the thumbnail and animations! Go and share a little love.

[@Zoltiboi]

Ayy it me! Thanks for the shoutout Monty, it means a lot. This is an extremely promising video about a game I think I'd love to play. Initially, I wanted to watch this ASAP, but I just saw the Karen meme and the name of the chapters and I'm now convinced I don't want to miss out on a firsthand experience. I guess I'll see you once I finished the game haha

[@chriscangelosi9438]

I am leaving now, bye be back later lol

[@TheModernStoryteller]

Developer here: I'm a little late to the party, but I loved this video. I may have even teared up a little at the end. Thanks Monty. 🙂

[@MontyZander]

Holy shit hello! Thanks so much for watching! (And making the game!)

[@TheModernStoryteller]

@@MontyZander You're welcome. 🙂

[@DarthFurball]

What a masterpiece!

[@NashTheInsomniac]

your game is one of the best experiences ive had in recent time, such a great concept

[@drd2093]

We loved the game! I can only criticize it in minor ways. Can’t wait to see what you guys do next!

[@OrabitsMadness]

As the little sister of one of the 3 people who worked on this game and sat with him to keep him Company while he programmed and laughed when the ai goofed, it makes me really happy that judging by the comments so many people enjoyed this game. They've just finished the final set of updates and ports for this game and are now developing their next story. Thanks so much for creating a video on my brother's game.

[@MontyZander]

Thanks so much for watching it! Even if I got a couple of bits wrong about the ending!

[@OrabitsMadness]

@@MontyZander You'll be happy to know they fixed the issue with the hint whispers by the way. My sibling has watched you video and really enjoys the philosophy you explored to understand the game.

[@Kvs-vf9nt]

Can't wait until your brother creates a game with more people. I was really impressed that only he and 2 others worked on it. I legit thought it was made with a lot more people. You're brother really deserves a contract at a big gaming studio. But I rather have him create his own story games. This is a masterpiece!

[@hysuka2]

At 1:09:22, from what I understand, Sentius shouldn't remember when you kill him. If you kill him before he creates the portal, you've broken the loop because Sentius can't create the portal that got you here. At that point you've created a paradox and you get erased.

[@trismegistus2881]

He does always die when he creates the time loop for you. This is OK because it does not create a paradox, but it still means that he should remember his death every time (in as far as that is possible since it occurs instantly).

[@deadmemes719]

@@trismegistus2881 he does die each time, but he dies making the portal. So if we just jump him, we break reality and yeah

[@AleksandrStrizhevskiy]

Yeah also I remember him being rude to you after the reveal on each subsequent visit to his temple.

[@lawtonaaj]

The one problem is if you leave after finding his daughter go confront him and let him know you know where she is and then don't kill him and reset the loop to any other crime.

the only mistake of this video pretty much. if you tell sentuis you know he has his daughter trapped in the cistern he will refuse to talk to you. then if you break the golden rule and restart the day he will remember that conversation and still refuse to talk to you. but killing him before that conversation or after will trigger the first ending. and after the ending all you can do is go back to your last save. and if that last save happened before the conversation he will not remember it. this is clearly what has happened that lead to this youtuber's false conclusion on this subject.

[@dbedard524]

I’m back! Your opening was so compelling that I literally left, bought the game, achieved all four endings, and now I’ve returned…. A better person and a happier Gamer thanks to you

[@MontyZander]

Aw dude I'm so glad!!

[@mrKeyCat]

Same here! And I am glad I did. It was one of the most enjoyable narrative experiences I have ever played.

[@robertanderson7186]

I did the same thing, 100% worth it

[@flyingmarley]

I played this game for about 10 hours straight the day I bought it. Very thought provoking, and if you're a fan of history, some of the twists feel even more satisfying than if this was all new to you.

[@picahudsoniaunflocked5426]

Been watching a lot of content on missteps in AC franchise & Elder Scrolls games lately & I don't think developers understand how much people really want to explore interesting historical worlds as well as fantasy worlds, with many wanting the role play elements too. It's so rare to get a solid story to facilitate that without turning into a history demo. This game looks so satisfying.

[@Siferiax]

Finally able to watch this video after completing the game last night. Lovely video, but I have two counter points. Spoilers 1. Sentius remembering. a. If you kill him and therefore escape, you can't go back, you can only reload your save file. So in that case obviously he doesn't remember. b. You can actually annoy the heck out of Sentius that he will tell you "I thought I told you to get out of my villa, I'm bored with you". He keeps that line through the loops and all his dialogue gets closed. (Maybe only if you finished the tell him who will break the golden rule quest) 2. I find it disappointing you didn't argue God out of the Golden Rule. It's the Silver Tongue achievement. So no you don't need another loop after confronting God. I miss the discussion of the whole reason the city and rule are in place in the first place. (Turning off whispers is on PC under interface > comfort > hints enabled)

[@bkrxiii]

Also, you don’t have take the crown, you can actually argue him into abandoning his wager.

[@Jonnyg325]

Look, big talky-talk about big words boring, stabby stabby boom boom quicker

[@MadUncle9]

@@Jonnyg325 Yeah but then you miss out on, "owning God with FACTS and LOGIC"

[@HibiTeamQueso]

​@@MadUncle9lmfao

[@Dr_goman]

@@MadUncle9just did that and it was the ultimate chad move 😂 you basically win him over in his own game

[@danielwisniewski6962]

I'm friends with the Sentia voice actress and love seeing this fantastic and thought-provoking passion project (that started as a SKYRIM MOD, mind you!) get all sorts of love and analysis. Currently sharing it with her now. Love to see it and thanks for the coverage!

[@MontyZander]

Thanks for watching! (And tell her thank you for such a fab performance!)

[@Henners1991]

The big problem with Sentius's plan was that it relied on him not happening to be taking a shit when a sin got committed, or tripping over/getting hit by an arrow when running for the shrine...

[@vallennes]

He does say the reason he's wearing his armour is to protect him when he's running for the portal, but the rest of your points stand.

[@HibiTeamQueso]

I suspect he won't need to take many shits if he just lives the same day over and over 😂

[@cokeMONSTERps3]

Yeah, a man like him would literally be standing next to the shrine so he's ready.

[@dragoncharmer2199]

I'm so happy you did a video on this game. I was so curious and wanting to solve every puzzle that I ended up getting the 4th ending with out even trying. I was both surprised and impressed by how lost I was able to get in this game. I LOVE this game. Everyone should play it (and the mod for skyrim. Both are amazing).

[@Jpinkyfan]

The four different religions concept was one of the coolest things I’ve ever seen. Just the perspective of each religion when looking at the other is wild

[@pointlesspublishing5351]

The girl peeling the statue: I think peeling the first state is "ok" or justifable - she could NOT know better. But peeling DOZENS and NOT deducting "hmm, living flesh without skin equals pain" is the problem. @Sentius forgetting: They patched it. @SpoilerBestEnding: There is another solution to get the 4th Ending. Go talk to the philosopher, after you meet the person who's name shall not be mentioned.

[@robyntact9251]

You can actually Spoilers Speech 100 the final boss. You can convince God that he's wrong, which is pretty fun.

[@AleksandrStrizhevskiy]

You can? I didn't know that. That's awesome!

[@RepublicOfUs]

I'm legitimately surprised that he didn't know that (or if he did, hadn't mentioned it). But, yeah, incredibly satisfying, that.

[@---zw6oc]

You can actually find all the 4 people galerius mentioned, like sisyphus

[@leecaninzun3160]

One note you bring up a lot is why doesn’t Sentius remember the loops in which he was killed. It’s because he didn’t trigger the loops. When we die in the game we don’t trigger a new loop, we go back to a checkpoint. It’s sorta the same for him. The instances in which he dies triggers an end game. So there is no loop to remember. I do agree though that if in a previous loop we threaten him we should get a dialog along the lines of “go about your hopeless task. Either way I win.”

[@picahudsoniaunflocked5426]

23:36 I'm rewatching to catch up on your back catalogue --- it all still holds up! --- & just to really fix this comment in time, as opposed to the Forgotten City's portals, I had to laugh when I realized you were talking about Escape Rooms in Glasgow, & it's just been a couple weeks since Billy Coull's disastrous Willie Wonka knock-off experience, & all I could think of was "Oh no I hope Billy Coull isn't in the Escape Room business too".

[@HiCZoK]

I think Sentius only remembers the loops when he opens a portal. not when he dies

[@ballenboy]

Because when he dies the game ends and you have to reload a previous save.

[@gregoryfenn1462]

Yeah, if you or his daughter kills him, you get a paradox rather than a proper time loop

[@Rassalcon]

Ok I've watched up until the 1:12:00 mark and am now going to stop so I can play the game. You win this round Monty

[@MontyZander]

I KNEW that second spoiler warning was a good idea!

[@ghollister29]

Thanks for this video. This is far and away the best game I’ve ever played. During my playthrough I noticed how much joy I was getting out of just playing the game, rather than other games where the sense of joy comes from beating a boss or completing a mission. No, just the act of wandering around and interacting with the NPCs brought more satisfaction to me than any other game I’ve played.

[@AlexBaldwinFTW]

I def didn't have that glitch with Sentius starting over on new loops, he wouldn't talk to me and would tell me to get lost basically. Although I didn't redo the burning that's a good catch and an interesting idea.

[@ZCid47]

As a history student and fan of mythology, this game is one of my favorites

[@IFinishedAVideoGame]

This is probably one of my favourite games of all time but something thats really been eating me is that you can only really ever experience it once. I doubt even decades would allow me to forget its big reveals. Thats why I'd like to say thank you for putting this together. It was a fantastic look at a game that I thought I knew inside out and allowed me to relive my own playthrough - just what I need to slake that impossible desire to experience it all over again!

[@Lady_de_Lis]

"The many shall suffer for the sins of the one" is honestly more like a fact of life. It happens all the time. How many people suffered for the sins of Hitler or Stalin or Mao? Too many to count. Yes, it's not fair, but it's not fair in the same way that gravity isn't fair when you fall from a ten story balcony. In general, life doesn't operate fairly, and human beings are the only ones trying to enforce fairness. Yes, it is not fair that Desius's property rights are more important to Pluto than saving Iulia's life, at least within the very narrow context of their individual needs. Desius doesn't need that money as much as Iulia needs the medicine, and therefore, it's unfair. However, in the real world, the Golden Rule still applies, but just in a different way. We need to remember where someone like Desius, in a real world context, would have gotten the medicine to begin with. He would've bought it from a person who is skilled at making medicines. The medicine maker would have bought ingredients from people who grow or gather those ingredients. The medicine maker would have also bought supplies like bottles and mortar and pestle etc from others who make those supplies. The people who make things like bottles, mortar, and pestle etc would have to buy materials needed to make those supplies. Where would they buy them? From the people who found and mined those materials. In other words, a lot of time, money, blood, sweat, and tears from a long line of people allowed that medicine to be available to buy. It did not just magically poof into existence. Let's say, for the sake of argument, that there was a law in place that life saving medicine must be given away for free to people who are in emergency situations. The merchants selling the medicine would likely stop buying the medicine because they keep making hefty losses on the medicine. The people who make the medicine would also stop being paid for their work, and so they would stop making medicine entirely in order to spend their time on alternative means of income. With so many customers gone, the people who grow the ingredients / make the supplies for medicine making would need to find alternative customers or would need to reduce their time and money spent on the ingredients and supplies, if not find an alternative source of income altogether. And on and on. So, in the long run, fewer sick people would have access to medicine because the medicine is no longer being made, resulting in far more deaths than there were before. And additionally, many skilled workers would have to find alternative means of providing for their families, and many might be unable to do so, thus becoming destitute. In that case many more people suffered who did not have to suffer because someone decided to make a law that made it okay to steal medicine "for the greater good". You could say, "Well, if it's only an exception here or there, like with Iulia, then what's the problem? Stealing to help just one person surely won't hurt anything." But the problem is, as soon as you allow one person to get away with it, you open up the door to everyone else. Suddenly people say, "Why does she get to have the medicine for free and my child doesn't? My child is in just as much need as she was!" And you would have no leg to stand on to deny them the free medicine without being a massive hypocrite.

[@killenxslayer8709]

I just finished this game about 5 minutes ago I got the 4th ending by killing God's wife an scaring him I was so invested at the end at the museum though seeing everyone again and learning what came of them. I havent been so invested in a game like i have been with this one in years

[@wolffster25]

Thank you for the warning I decided to play this game based on that recommendation and I’m glad I did now it can go alongside Outer Wilds as a game I can only ever play once. Now I get to fully enjoy your video 😊

[@criticalcoffee]

This is by far the best video essay I've seen about The Forgotten City. Super interesting to hear about different philosophers' ideas on morality and how they are reflected in the game.

[@wolftal1178]

It’s one of the best games I’ve ever played!👍 however when I finally got to hades, and saw all the bits alien and shiny I started to think😒 oh God they had to put aliens in it didn’t they, however the way they described it made a lot of sense and in fact it was a very elegant and good way of doing it.

[@hungryLIKEALI0N]

I finally played this game so that I could watch this video. Tremendously worthwhile experience, and I loved being able to see your thoughts on it after experiencing it myself. What a cool game, and a great video essay.

[@BlueSpams]

I have to say, this game is one of the very few where the major plot twists genuinely made me gasp. Also I’m a huge fan of how many minor details are in the game. Spoilers. Karen=Charon for example was dangled right in front of our face to realize they’ve been hinting at it for a while now but the moment it’s revealed I was actually shocked. Also, I love how if you confront Sentius but still go through other cycles, he mocks you on the run back to the portal if youre running up beside him. Also you might be surprised to know there’s also red, white, and yellow carrots 🥕:)

[@DesertEagle093]

As a devout Christian this game was really interesting to play. Easily one of my favorite games from last year. I can't wait to see what else this studio makes in the future

[@chandler9107]

I started this video a couple nights ago because I love your bioshock, soma, and Arkham videos, but you being so adamant at the start that I should play it myself worked. I’m very glad it did. I’ve gotten the “true ending” and the “I brought a gun” speedrun ending, so I’m ready to hear a different perspective on the story. Thank you for being so annoyingly insistent that I experience the art myself first :)

[@spavaai]

The Forgotten City is one of few games I still think about often, even years after completion. This video was an excellent throwback and I really enjoyed your well versed critique. Subscribed.

[@Sirblobfish9906]

Your game criticism videos really deserve more views, these are fantastic and i enjoy them so much.

[@LrdVnm]

Small correction about the options to get into Malleolus' villa: Domitius isn't immune to cold hard denarii, it just takes 1000.

[@jake.klusewitz]

So glad I picked this one up! I didn’t expect it’d be the kinda game for me, but that story-telling blew me away! I’m actually really interested in trying Outer Wilds now! For anyone who missed it, The Forgotten City is still on sale on PSN until tomorrow (at least in the US - $20.99 instead of $29.99).

[@kjarrij]

Outer wilds is amazing! Although it plays out very different than The forgotten city. Imo its the fluidity of movement that makes it such a joy to play, flying and messing around with gravity of planets and just getting from point A to point B is so nice. And the story/mystery is also just incredibly satisfying

[@jake.klusewitz]

@@kjarrij good to hear! Definitely gonna give it a try soon! 🙂 I’m usually an action-oriented kinda gamer, but (if I’m right in considering both of these ‘waking sims’) my favorite of this genre of games is What Remains of Edith Finch. If you haven’t played it, you should check it out! Lots of walking around, learning more about your environment and sympathizing with the characters. It’s mesmerizing! 😛

[@kjarrij]

@@jake.klusewitz The term 'walking sims' really doesn't do a good job describing these games, but you're right in the way that Outer wilds has no combat whatsoever. I was hesitant to try it at first, and I know from experience it's not for everyone. But give it a shot if you want a short-ish exploration/mystery game that is truly one of a kind. And thanks, I will definitely check out What remains of Edith Finch soon! In my search for similar mystery/adventure/detective games, that name comes up a lot and I've always wanted to check it out 😊

[@jake.klusewitz]

@@kjarrij haha I’m always horrible at categorizing genres 🙂 Nice! Any other suggestions besides Outer Wilds? Honestly, my minds a bit blown that I enjoyed The Forgotten City so much, and I want to try keeping the momentum going with similar titles 😃

[@kjarrij]

Unfortunately not really :/ I have been searching for similar games since playing Outer Wilds about a year ago, but haven't really found anything that scratched that itch properly... until now, that is, with The forgotten city :) Although, Return of the Obra Dinn is one, which is really unique and with a similar "time traveling mystery/detective" vibe to it. .. worth checking out, but it has a VERY different feel to it, so Im not sure I would recommend it

[@cherrybutterflyproductions6795]

Played this when it was still a skyrim mod. Stand out best mod I'd ever seen and I'm so glad it got to stand on its own.

[@greylien6224]

i know this comment isn't related to the video, but i just want you to know that i discovered your channel last weekend and i ADORE how much effort you put into your vids!! can't wait to watch more from you!!

[@MontyZander]

Thanks so much! Day made 🧡

[@AlexisRoyce]

What a lovely video. I know that responding with a big philosophical idea might be more in the vein of the content. But I guess I just appreciated what you had to say, and don't have much more to add. This was such a nice watch!

[@opinionpaladin6007]

This is an amazing game. I wish I had played it before I saw it on KZbin. But I remember when this was still a skyrim mod

[@lexmori9356]

I just finished this game for the first time, last night, and not only did I really enjoy this video, but apparently there's more than one way to achieve the real ending of the game and I find that fascinating, because you definitely went about it differently than I did. I'm definitely going to have to play through this one, again. GG.

[@LukasJampen]

I ignored the whispers half the time because I thought it was just random vague hints at the story to spook players and add mystery.

[@mikeyoung735]

Okay, using music from DreamWorks' movie "Eldorado" was pure gold, good sir!

[@picahudsoniaunflocked5426]

Monty's custom episode (+ segment sometimes) skins are all amazing but this is a sentimental fave. Actually all Monty custom interstitials are brilliant.

[@StradShow]

Fantastic video, Monty! Love this game, and glad someone decided to cover it!

[@sunriseparrabellum5505]

i recently stumbled onto this channel, cheers youtube algorithm, and its quickly become one of my favourites but that “carl benjamin, king of the cheese wanks” comment shot you right up the list. fantastic work as always mate

[@cokeMONSTERps3]

8 hours ago I found this video, bought the game, played it, loved it, and I'm back. What a tight narrative. That went exactly where I wanted it go. Now time for the vid.

[@T0xt3r]

Spoilers ahead for people who haven't played the game to completion. I liked the game overall. I had a fun time. I especially appreciated the fact that there were obstacles you could tackle in several different ways, that the solutions to the puzzles were intuitive enough (pretty much anytime I had an idea on how to progress, I could do it that way) and it's rare you see a game where you can actually talk your way out of conflicts. Most of the time games usually resort to violence no matter what dialogue options you choose which gets on my nerves a little bit. Fortunately, I chose the option to not get any hints in the form of whispers, which led to me figuring things out at my own pace. I didn't even jump down after Ulpius to get into Malleolus's villa because I was afraid I would die just like Ulpius. The twists felt kind of predictable to me, as I noticed the golden statues turning their heads from the very beginning, and the name of "The Golden Rule" itself clued me in to what it really was the first time I heard it mentioned, but I liked going through the story either way, it had this sort of flow to it I can't really explain. Every new task done smoothly blended with everything else and served to further my understanding of the city and its people. It all felt really cool. I wish they would've delved a bit more than they did into real events, myths and legends from history, and the two main philosophical arguments you got in (with the old greek philosopher and the God of the Underworld) seemed rather shallow to me. Nonetheless, I really enjoyed the part where I explored all the civilizations built on top of each other. It opened up my eyes to this aspect of history I'd never thought about before. I knew the Romans built their mythology and religion on the Greeks' but I had no idea it was the same for the Egyptians and Sumerians too for some reason. I have to comment on some things you said in the video, though: I don't know if this was patched in a later update to the game, but Sentius did act differently in future loops for me after I unmasked him for who he really was, and about why he doesn't remember Sentilla is behind him - Once he is burnt by Sentilla, you've created a paradox and the time loop breaks, returning you to the present. The game essentially ends there, and the next time you click continue on the title screen, you're sent back to right before you freed Sentilla, so the next time you free her, Sentius naturally doesn't know she sneaked up behind him, as it's never happened to him before. One other thing, (maybe I misunderstood what you said in the video) you don't need to use the time loop again in order to persuade the God of the Underworld with Proserpina's crown. It's actually possible to get through to him and make him understand his folly just by talking to him. Either way, good video, nice game, thanks for recommending this gem to me.

[@MontyZander]

Thanks for the comment Toxter - can always rely on you for the good stuff! Really good point about Sentius and the paradox Feel like a right numpty for forgetting that killing him doesn't reset a "loop" it just takes you back to an old save. My bad! Also I didn't know you could talk down the god of the underworld! What!? As much as it means my final point is shallower, it makes me appreciate the game more. Good stuff.

[@Mosamania]

@@MontyZander You loved this game because both you and the game's modern storytellers share similar philosophies which unfortunately resulted in what is in my opinion very poor dialogue from the God depicted here. Some of the character's quests felt more like foils for a concept than a character. Khabash for example is made to be the "cultural appropriation" character. While I understand the characters' need to be juxtapositioned with our own standards for context, the horrid black and white, red vs blue, light vs dark, "US VS THEM" that has plagued our own modern world was made glare after dangling hope that it would be different that it was so jarring for me. The Magistrate's reveal to be the villain all along is where all the strings of the story crumbled. I think it would have been so much better if the take away message from this game was "Are we really right?" Who are we really to decide that we have achieved some final form of enlightenment that we "Kill God" as you have aptly put it, instead it is just a celebration of modernity which in my opinion will always leave a sour taste in my mouth and relegated this story to mediocre in the end which was heartbreaking for me. In my opinion, good art is the one that seeks to illicit more questions than answers, but the fourth ending (which is the one I got on my play through and I do admit it was my only one) is just so self-masturbatory and a blatant celebration of modern atheistic dogma that everything around the game just crumbled to the ground as shallow and wasted potential. The plague of the modern storyteller continues still, maybe one day someone will find the cure.

[@Shinigami41395]

@@Mosamania I think the canon ending (fourth ending) would have been better if it had ended before the "one year later" time skip. It still felt fairly tasteful before then, but after the time skip it definitely felt like a "blatant celebration of modern atheistic dogma" as you put it. I still enjoyed the game, but I agree that it was held back by the forced overly modern viewpoint.

[@destinyhntr]

@@Mosamania I agree. The fact that they didn't bother studying Christianity as much as the other religions yet still put it in (and made one of the "christians" go against his religious faith at the end without even mentioning it) didn't sit well with me either. Some of the questions about morality also had a "yes" or "no" answer when my answer was a lote more nuanced so I couldn't actually say what I thought. There was definitely an athiest bias here, whereas they had a chance to show a variety of religions realistically.

[@wikileigha7077]

This is an amazing video, I wanted to play the game and starting this video finally gave me the push to do so. I played the game in one sitting and it was amazing and worth it. Following up with this video was an amazing ending to the experience.

[@MontyZander]

Thanks so much!

[@jovellakujo]

Thank you again for another amazing video, and tell the Noobis hello and we send our love.

[@UberNoodle]

@37:08 Thank you for indirectly giving me a very interesting new perspective on the classic film The Gods Must Be Crazy. It makes me judge that film's satire with a whole new eye.

[@culade]

Finally gave the game a shot Tuesday, couldn't put it down til I platinum'd it Wednesday. I believe the hints have to be turned off before starting the game as I remember seeing the option when first jumping in to invert Y axis. Spoilers: Noticed it's handholding at the beginning, but fought that off first chance by telling Galerius I'll be fine on my own. I didn't meet Sentius til much later, so Horatius' rudeness caught me off guard. And Desius absolutely is a Roman version of Patches. Going for the minimalist trophy adds that tension you mentioned as you have to basically 100% the game in 4 cycles. Saved all of my bullets til the third day where I had to fight my way into and out of the God's room after Duli sinned. After confronting Sentius, he tells me not to bother him every subsequent cycle afterwards until an ending occurs. Maybe they patched what you experienced out. Lastly, my first playthrough, I named my amnesiac character Cynthia, so at the end when Sentia said she changed her name I believed I inspired her new name. That broke after my last playthrough, but it was nice while it lasted lol.

[@adanrodriguez9140]

This game is the best video game adaptation of a TV show I've played. I had no idea it was based on the Good Place until I got to the end and was surprised by how loose the developers were with the source material.

[@theepicone100]

When I played through this game and got a cannon ending, I simply talked the God out of it the first time. Its possible which is very fun.

[@SleepyDrummer]

Yeah, it's a really good game. One of my favorites this year. It was on my wishlist but then I saw you praise it on Twitter (you influencer you) so I decided not to wait. Glad I did

[@alexblackmore7744]

Great as usual, and it's nice to see your subscriber count really starting to take off. Well deserved!

[@jonmarcmondor]

Another piece of amazing content my man

[@MontyZander]

Thanks so much!

[@Epiousios18]

Solid critique overall. There seemed to be some theological/philosophical issues with interchanging the concept of "God" with that of a "god" a few times throughout the video though. For instance at around 1:13:00 when you talk about an "omnipresent force" always watching and waiting to judge us, you are still referring to a "god" such as Pluto in the game. "God" in the usual philosophical or theological sense is synonymous with "being" itself. To kill "God" in a literal way would be to end all existence as well. I realize it is a bit of a nitpick especially because the way you discussed "killing god" is common in out current culture, but I thought it was worth bringing up since I enjoyed my time with the video.

[@modestestmouse4820]

I’m excited to watch this video! I wanted to like this game so badly, but ultimately it felt messy both thematically and mechanically. The concept was so compelling and intriguing though! When I first started playing it, I thought the twist was going to be that the setting was actually in the modern day and that everyone was cosplaying for twisted reasons.

[@bjarne3521]

I finished the game a few days ago ... and, holy crap did the confrontation with pluto remind me of the beginning of the lightnovel of tanya the evil. I loved it.

[@careydaniels310]

I was really proud of myself for figuring out the Karen->Charon twist, and even moreso of actually debating the God of the Underworld into abandoning his wager, and I personally thank the fantastic dialog you get to have with the hermit under the city, I think his line about how "The virtuous do not need rules, and the evil will always find a way around them" will stick with me for a while. I went out of my way to talk to him and Khabash each loop JUST because I wanted to make sure that if this was the last loop, they found closure, same with Livia and Galerius/Equitia. I understand the criticism with the Sentius twist, I think I avoided the brunt of it by simply... avoiding him once I learned of what he was doing... I was worried that if I told him he would intentionally break the loop, or he would revoke my stuff and easy navigation through the city, or have Horatius arrest me each loop or something. I also love how, with convincing Pluto into abandoning the wager, he lets Proserpina go, and you can meet her in the museum, where she talks about being mortal though still having her powers, and how Charon is basically just refurbishing the afterlife now. I don't know if threatening Pluto into leaving does that though. I prefer the talking option anyway, it reminds me of the conversation with Legate Lanius in F:NV, how you can use a number of skills to convince him to call off the attack, but still fuck it up if you choose the wrong dialog at the end. Solid game, one of the best 20$ and 8 hours i've ever spent.

[@SitWithItBob]

I loved exploring this game and questioning my moral sanity the whole time. I was fairly incensed at the 'morals' being enforced by the golden rule before figuring out that questioning the ultimate authority was going to be a larger theme in the story. Then seeking and finding the 'cracks' in the golden rule and the psychological horror behind it all really starts to take form. I appreciate the developers were able to put this experience together and in a way that would have anyone questioning their own moral code, somehow, somewhere. Somehow the "one true/good ending" felt wrong to me, though. Like I don't know if the developer wants this to be the canon ending and 21st century modern living is actually "heaven" for our cast, even asshole Desius? Or is this meant to be the moral telling at the end of the overall parable: "Question the ultimate authority, question your own authority, be empathetic, and you and all of your closest friends will be saved". Maybe this is obvious but it seemed to me the developer is asking a final meta question with this ending. The characters 'escaped' the time loop world, built on the backs of all the previous civilizations but still holding onto many morally questionable practices and ideals into our modern world. The anachronistic clash of these ancient peoples in our timeframe forces us to confront one more time on how these moral concepts apply to our own reality. The first question any good sci-fi fan should ask when exiting a time loop is, "Have I really escaped the loop?", and in this case, "or is our civilization just repeating the crimes and injustices of the past in new ways?". These characters are actually just metaphors now, the message is that the ancient people we've been learning about are the same as people we know in our everyday lives today. And systems of injustice are built into our modern societies today.

[@failedGraphics]

I played this game for 10 hours unlocking every ending and yet i still missed half the thing you showed. Guess i have to play another 10 hours.

[@bfolds1494]

Slight critique of your critique. Sentius would never remember being killed because any scenario where he was killed created a paradox and ended the game. But I did think they should have created some unique dialog if you had already confronted him about knowing sentilla was locked in the cistern both in the cistern confrontation and future loops.

[@AleksandrStrizhevskiy]

I think they did, at least by the time I played it. Someone mentioned they patched it. When I returned to sentius after the reveal he was rude and dismissive.

[@starpencil]

Was not expecting a reference to the world's end. Love that movie.

[@TheDarkChaplain]

I did not expect that Sargon-callout. If I hadn't subscribed before, this would be the moment I would do it. You've got a good head on your shoulders.

[@timeneses]

Monty Critique is an official event in this household.

[@tyo9954]

Wait but doesn’t sentius’s death mean the cycle is broken and thus he doesn’t remember.

[@MontyZander]

Yeah that was totally my bad!

[@DeathbyNoob15]

haven't played this game, but going to now. I'm at 4:31, i'll be back when I've finished

[@technopat3]

This video deserves so many more views

[@ajiteshgupta23]

Whelp guess I have to play the game before watching the video. see you in 12 hrs

[@DoctorTex]

Sentius' death breaks the Golden Rule, yes, but you're also forgetting that since he's the one to make the portal back in time, if he's dead, you wouldn't be here, and so you get turbo yeeted back through time to the present. This is why, after getting burned by Sentilla or murdered by you, he wouldnt remember because you're not traveling through time anymore: you're loading a previous save. If you let Sentius reveal the truth to you by saying it to his face at the Villa, and then let the golden rule break through means OTHER than killing him, he wont talk to you anymore on future loops because he's bored with you. He DOES remember if you go through that portal. He DOESNT remember, if that portal doesnt open, and he will ALWAYS open it.

[@makaylawhittum2573]

If this is how Monty handles what started as a mod that grew to this I wonder how he would tackle Enderal

[@blackslashmail]

(4:34) Didn't even know this one was out. Getting lost, bbl!

[@JosieDrake1995]

Personally I liked the whispering. There’s so many things I never would’ve bothered doing were it not for the whispers

[@Siferiax]

Thought I'd be here for a long video, but got kicked out after 4 minutes. See you in... however long it takes me to actually play this game Lol. You got me interested enough to actually leave this video though :)

[@johnbutcher6326]

I can give you a perfect example of the social contract I have struck up. I was sadly playing Gotham Knights, I got to a puzzle I could solve. Issue was I was teamed up with a random guy. He was French, I don’t speak French. After him buggering up the puzzle for 20 minutes I got frustrated and invited him to a party on Xbox. He was French. I thought I was fucked, I spoke slowly. Begging for him to stop but no dice. Until I was struck with an idea. Google translate. If I typed up what I wanted to say, and played the French translation he could understand I could complete this puzzle. So with that done he stepped back and I solo’d the puzzle. I can guess he was either calling himself an idiot or thanking me. Neither mattered. We played for another hour in Gotham knights working as a team. This is the very proof that not all people are born good or bad, just how predisposed we are to solving problems in positive or negative way. Helping ‘us’ or helping ‘me’. And I chose to help a man I didn’t know.

[@LukasJampen]

Just one correction Sentius can't remember that Sentilla burnt him because that directly leads to an ending and therefore doesn't repeat the loop. But yeah I agree Sentius should aknowledge his villain side after you confront him and remember that. That's the biggest inconsistency in the game. It is a great twist as I liked Sentius and thought he might see the morality of Rome as the greatest thing ever despite it being horribly outdated but was overall a decent person because he is willing to sacrifice himself to save everybody. Him having imprisoned his own daughter to keep everybody in the underworld to keep his power and repeat the same day forever for as long as he wants and blackmailing you with the lifes of all the people in the city to keep looping.

[@timlampers8610]

26:16 Even if there was water to land in, I still wouldn't jump. From a great height, falling into water is equivalent to slamming straight into concrete.

[@DarkRaikon]

i didn't even notice the eggs....

[@starrychan33]

When Sentilla (or the player) kills Sentius in the cistern, he doesn't remember that because it breaks the time loop. Maybe it's been patched but once I confronted him about him locking up Sentilla, he gives me the villain monologue and then tells me to fuck off. In subsequent loops he still tells me to fuck off or gloats that there's nothing I can do so there's no break there at all. I do agree with the whispers being too hand-holdy at some points. The other thing which really bothered me is having Duli steal something 2 minutes after letting him out which proves that Sentius was right to lock the poor man up. I wish it would just be like the others where Malleolus and Dimitus show up to attempt a coup like normal. Leave Duli alone. He did nothing wrong

[@luygilima7027]

i am from Brazil it is hard for me to buy games so when i play it 6 month from now i am will watch the vídeo

[@MontyZander]

I promise it'll be worth the wait when you do (it's also on sale on steam I think)

[@LukasJampen]

You can actually convince Pluto to let everybody go without having to steal the crown. The good ending in that sense can be achieved with violence or purely through a philosophical debate.

[@ClemRest986]

catherine critique when ??? 😏😏

[@FiniteSteakMachine]

I'm not sure if this has been patched, but in the current version, you CAN have Sentius remember the twist and act differently on later loops. You have to find Sentilla but decline to rescue her and continue the loop from there. Confront Sentius about it in any loop, and talk to the point it closes the accusation quest permanently, so the game does acknowledge the twist even after looping. At least on my game on the current patch, this all made sense in the end. Though it's unnatural that you still have the option of keeping up the farce, it's not (or no longer) true that they didn't script and record new dialogue when you've crossed the line. I just don't know if it was always done that way or patched later, since I only played the latest version.

[@Welter117]

Hey there. Just found your channel. KZbin recommended me your video about your girlfriend playing Dark Souls 1. Going through your backlog of content now. Keep up the great work!

[@MontyZander]

Hey thanks so much!

[@mattcat83]

I never sinned the first time I played the game nor felt suspicious about Sentius. I think it depends upon your personality.

[@shaneroffey5638]

it took me a long time to notice the statues... uncomfortable looks. when I noticed it I couldn't help but freeze, that is a whole other kind of indescribable discomfort

[@alessandroferrucci6087]

quality content as usual

[@blingingjak1]

Well guess I have to go play this now, I enjoy your videos to much to not, I'm sure it will be a great experience

[@MontyZander]

I don't want to overhype it to you, but I'd stake your subscriber-ship on how much I recommend it! Just a cracking 8 hour game.

[@blingingjak1]

@@MontyZander just finished all 4 endings today, wonderful game. It was a little overwhelming at first but as you tie things up and expand it I feel like it really blossomed.

[@OvershadowAeon]

I pretty quickly realized the most effective strategy was to steal from Aurelias locked chest at the end of every loop for an easy 2k coins.

[@OvershadowAeon]

Spoilers: Also I didn't mind that first hint to jump off after ulpius because I still wasn't sure if I should trust the voice and telling me to jump off the cliff felt like maybe it was a trick. The after I decided it was worth a shot it felt like a very satisfying way to teach me to trust the voice. It felt less like the escape room worker giving me the answer and more like a partner who is working on the problem with me. I also think it would take away from mythology aspect of the game. It was really cool to me that I was working together with persephone to free her from hades.

it is better to go in the cave with the statue blocking the door to the entrance just before the turning up to the amphitheatre where the election is held. when the golden rule is broken and the statues comes alive it will move away from the door and inside is a chest with about 5000 coins to loot.

[@johnynoway9127]

the most wtf moment was when he was set on fire i thought hed be bonked on the head but not that lol

[@meimei8718]

The physical and visible threat is just as stressful, dreaded and generally uncomfortable as the belief of the threat. The mind who believes can’t tell the difference between perceived and real threat. To the mind, therefore the body, they are both real.

[@haoyu53]

I actually got into Malleolus's villa by just giving Domitius a shit ton of money

[@Andrew-h4l]

Love the road to Eldorado theme. Lol thanks for that

[@marigolden_mariposa]

i just finished this game and got ending 2 first & then 4. I never saw that scene you showed during the election. I successfully got Galerius elected & everyone left the area. The loop was reset because he freed Duli and Duli immediately broke the golden rule. Isn't that the only way to get his plaque? Also i never saw any of the equita & galerius romance, so i was shocked when i got the 4th ending & they were together in the museum. I dont understand how i missed that, i went through all possible dialogue options & just NEVER saw this secret admirer thing? how??

[@Kazuhiro-i]

Ok Fine I'm gonna go and play it, fiiiineeeee... If My computer can handle it xd If it doesn't, see you soon xd

[@KatiePlaysStuff]

What an incredible video. I know I'm late to the party but with 17 hours of The Forgotten City on my belt, I needed to watch a video that encompassed the pure perfection this game was. Thank you for a lovely and insightful 1 1/2 hours 🤍

[@thecrakp0t]

4:31 you know what, okay I'll play the game before watching. Something about this is calling to me so I'll be back once I'm done.