The Foxhole Economy Is Broken!!

During this video I talk about a recent change to the last update of Foxhole that has now broken the economy and made it harder for players to get resources for tanks.
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[@cefb1325]

i swear to god siege camp might be doing a social experiment on how far you can annoy a player base before they’ve had enough of your crap.

[@1nsaniel]

Its a 100% confirmed because what kind of person thinks building and scrooping is fun

[@rodrikofharlaw6848]

I figured this out in war like 60 something when they made tanks ONLY RUN on petrol. When petrol was a pain to actually produce from the wells. They actually like to see how much they can punish players before they complain.

[@RobertLovesGames]

lol possible!

[@Protectron78674]

Rip bluefin with 400 Spatha Tanks. Will miss u

[@RobertLovesGames]

Hope to see the Bluefin get some more love in the future! Currently an under utilized logi aspect for the game.

[@flakcannonhans6170]

As a Warden, I won’t

[@Protectron78674]

Last war the AEF used a bluefin to transport hundreds of tanks, supplies, and fuel. Was crucial during the last stages in the war. It was docked in the Linn of Mercy for the most part. Did ya see it?

[@MRdaniel92414]

There's also knight blue fin and MSA blue fin. According to my memory there was total of 4 blue fin at the end of game​@@Protectron78674

[@StylishYeoman]

@@RobertLovesGames I think it's only seemingly underutilized because of the cost and the manpower requirements to operate. I've seen some great groups using them in the past, so I think its just got a barrier to entry which I find completely fair for how strong it is.

[@gambitsheild9814]

When game devs treat the economy like the government treats the economy.

[@RobertLovesGames]

lol to real!

[@IemandIemandus]

Tbf, the game was already world of tanks before 5x components

[@RobertLovesGames]

Ehhhh yes and no. It was certainly much more apparent in war 112 than any other war in my opinion.

[@Cool-Cat1]

Every other war it was at least bearable as frontline infantry. 112 was such a slog if you where infantry cause tanks and tank shells where produced so fast you would get shot at with shells if your teams tanks where out of range. It got to a point that I would just change front if it was a tank battle because I was not going to enjoy it as infantry.

[@whiteoscreen2383]

​@@Cool-Cat1 Maybe give infantry a got AT weapons

[@Cool-Cat1]

@@whiteoscreen2383 There are AT weapons but with the amount of tanks produced if you took 1 out then 2 more would roll off the production line ready to take it's place.

[@Katie18483]

I think another issue not addressed by the comp changes is the over abundance of tank ammo and other explosives. Tanks used to have to actually worry about ammo and make decisions on when to shoot infantry now they do it without a second thought. Also the amount of bone saws being used by wardens against infantry has increased dramatically

[@The__Foreman]

Seige Camp Balancing is The Equivalent of Giving a Squirrel a Gun

[@RobertLovesGames]

lol! Well lets be honest a lot of game balance teams work similar to Foxhole. Big swings and some big misses. Few rarely hit the mark on the first try it seems.

[@johndane9754]

Nah, more like wishing from the monkey's paw.

[@brichess8227]

Somehow siege camp misses 100% of the time though, like I can think of zero good balance changes in post 1.0 foxhole

[@niconilo97]

@@brichess8227 what are you talking about remember snipers ?

[@kyosokutai]

Players will want tank no matter the cost. - More resource cost? They'll claim more fields. - Less available resources? - They'll claim even MORE fields - Longer production timers? - They'll make massive manufactorum districts to make up with sheer volume. - Clearly the only solution is to make tanks not worth the investment. STUPID NERFS ACROSS THE BOARD, CARDBOARD ARMOR, PEA SHOOTER GUNS AND GUZZLE PETROLEUM LIKE ITS A SPORTS CAR.

[@Roisome]

Siege Camp’s balancing is a slider that only goes to the farthest up or the farthest down and never in the middle.

[@RobertLovesGames]

lol seems like it.

[@ultrasaur17]

Ive picked one hell of a war to try and solo my way to a battleship...

[@RobertLovesGames]

Oof! Please keep me updated on how that goes lol

[@nahbruh6957]

Last war someone parked a battleship at a seaport for crewing and mentioned he and his friend made it. Nuts I tell you.

[@Losowy]

If I were the dev I'd try to make the tanks still somewhat rare but also affordable by just increasing production time to avoid overflow of them You wouldn't need to grind for so long to make them but you also wouldn't be able to make an entire panzer army in a short time

[@RobertLovesGames]

Yea I think they should have attempted to make those changes as well. Thanks for your thoughts on this!

[@dylanvandermeer9852]

Indeed and the garage rmat cost need to be increased

[@alpbalcaev7583]

@@RobertLovesGames that would have made faction super unbalanced as wardens have svh and htd out of garaage wile colonials have balista and bardish ( other tanks are just not worth it if ur not upgraading them )

[@checkmate058]

Concrete and vehicle recources need to become separate. Gravel + water for concrete Components for vehicles. Make T1 and T2 bunkers viable by adding indirect fire and anti vehicle defences to every defense tier. Then make concrete a hard to get big ticket project reserved for major backline defenses

[@Tense]

What's really bad is that by only waiting one war... now we have no idea if Warden loss was just on them, or if it was the mat bump. One metric does not a study make.

[@RobertLovesGames]

Exactly! New changes and updates need to be 2-3 wars to get a good idea on how it feels. Again major hotfixes can be added if something is really out of wack but general changes needs to stay for bit.

[@mrjellster3771]

On top of that what a troll map layout with all mpfs being on frontlines

[@elchupacabra1406]

I mean having hundreds of tanks untouched in like every seaport and bluefin clearly shows a problem with the economy, I'm surprised they made the change so fast as well but happy they are monitoring it closely

[@niconilo97]

You know what won the war for collie ? they share their stock pile !

[@StylishYeoman]

So the original purpose for broken components were to provide a 24/7 income of comps (albeit a smaller amount) for those who are dedicated to working the field, as opposed to purely a rat race when the field spawns fresh nodes. So it rewards players for making the most out of the resource fields that are available to them and to their faction. Obviously this got out of hand quickly with 5x production, so I expected them to scale it back. I think they almost hit balance well with this update. I like that they decreased how "dense" broken components are so that people are less willing to take broken components from a component field to their own facility far away. This means it only makes sense to refine broken components on site, and that's a good thing. I think the only bad thing is how fast the harvesters fill up. If they increased the stockpile size to be proportional to what it was before, it'd be perfectly fine. That way it's still 50 minutes (or however long it was) in between needing to empty the harvester. I don't think it was just the tanks that were the issue. As a Colonial last war, we had ample supplies of Banes on pretty much every front for the first time ever. Banes are the most expensive infantry equipment that you can make, there's no reason why every front without fail should be stocked with them. It was fun while it lasted though.

[@Semih-Bilki]

Isn't this also nerf pcons(big train tracks) and conc production? If it is then its fine imo

[@Cool-Cat1]

I feel like a simple fix would have been increasing tank production cost a bit or production time a bit so you couldn't build as many tanks. Would still let casual/solo players build them and have fun but would hopefully slow down the amount of tanks regis could bring to a frontline. I also feel like this was a kneejerk reaction by the devs without much thought put behind it. Which is a shame because if they did a small amount of testing they could have found a much better solution to this problem.

[@StylishYeoman]

I think the issue was more than just tanks. Collie frontline bunkers across all fronts were always stocked with Banes which is the first time i've ever seen that happen. They should have upped the stockpile for B.comps proportionally to what it was before so that way it's not 6 minutes before it fills up though

[@Cool-Cat1]

@@StylishYeoman Frontline bunkers needed to always be stocked on AT since you would be facing tanks most of the time. I feel like this could have been solved by increasing production time for tanks and it would have stayed mostly the same maybe a few more tanks per front.

[@StylishYeoman]

@@Cool-Cat1 But specifically Banes are very expensive and not supposed to be spammed out in mass. They're the cream of the crop AT weapon that ordinarily is pretty rare to see in decent amounts. Last war, it was the main AT weapon I saw delivered when I was fighting in the center lane.

[@Cool-Cat1]

@@StylishYeoman I get that. The amount of them was far more than normal but that was needed because most of the active fronts would have 5+ tanks at any time. I was mostly fighting in Clanshead last war and there where times when the Wardens had 10+ tanks and what felt like 30 artys with the amount of shells flying. Which meant that our tanks couldn't push to deal with their tanks and infantry needed the best AT to do anything at all. I feel like the resource gain increase just wasn't thought out well at all and it threw any and all balance out the window. I did feel that there where less stalemates which boths sides not really pushing each other and fights where happening almost 24/7 which was fun but just the amount of tanks, artillery, tank destroyers, AT and grenades being produced did feel way too much. Lack of actual thought and just a kneejerk reaction to try and please logi players at the cost of frontline players.

[@22yhjjjj]

I've felt the 112 economy. I solo built a BT. Not something new or groundbreaking, but its wild that it can be done solo super easily. Components were basically free, as the local component facility had trouble exporting them. Several warden Logi clans were selling BT's for free or really cheap. It was crazy. Personally, I would have just preferred a Refine Material prince increase across the board.

[@LegendaryZA]

Hi (guy who made 1600 public spathas last war): Dev's killed the fun, so sadly we're going to kill the fun back. Because tanks are too difficult to make, we're going a different this route this war: public artillery. Because arty guns are cheap to build and easy to supply! So Good luck to the wardens, hope you have an umbrella. PS: Best way to fix this is remove the discount from MPF's: take it from the guy who made a thousand falchions last war! :)

[@calliph]

Making arty and shells is easy, finding people to man them is always the hard part.

[@HatsAlEsman]

@@calliph it does so much damage and I think the biggest contribution I ever made to a war was an arty op, but at the end of the day its a move thing and press button vs the wildness of the front.

[@Rockmonsterdude]

Nobody wants to do arty though

[@ender1720]

Thanks for the hard work o7

[@RadarLeon]

Congrats we did ALL of those things -DEVMAN

[@RobertLovesGames]

Lol!

[@quban234]

It's so wild to me that they thought about increasing bcom rate without increasing harvester stockpile storage. Because of these changes, I'll likely abandon logi for the time being.

[@RobertLovesGames]

I would say you don't need to abandon all logi just anything that deals with broken comps.

[@johndane9754]

I'm... stumped. I don't know where to begin with the vehicle production, resource relation, assembly, distribution, or refinement. But remember; if it hurts, it's WERCS.

[@notsofrenow8740]

One thing for sure is we're going to see less tanks in War 113. Each faction has only 3 MPFs compared to the usual 5.

[@RobertLovesGames]

Should be an interesting war with less tanks. With island VP's there should be a lot more naval focus as well.

[@galiantus1354]

I don't think this war will be longer. Less comps means whichever side is on the back foot will direct more comps to concrete instead of tanks. And given the map starting conditions, that implies a high degree of instability.

[@RobertLovesGames]

We will see. The island VP's could make it longer as well unless Warden navy just dominates again. Should be an interesting war. Thanks for your thoughts on this!

[@HatsAlEsman]

Broken comps in war 110 and before were my solo facilitys lifeline. This seems like it’ll make things much worse.

[@RobertLovesGames]

Much worse honestly. I would not recommend messing with it at all unless you have a decently sized group to help.

[@UndeadFredl]

Harvesting resources should be done automatically. Each hex you control gives more resources with your home territories closer to your starting hex giving more (so the deck is never completely stacked against you). This means players Don't feel like they permanently have to be on scrooping duty, and the devs can balance for a known factor (how many resources are being produced). The labor being put into the system is in refining, and login not in afking with an auto clicker.

[@johnm9263]

This creates a very bad balancing problem in and of itself Colonials have cheaper weapons that also take less time to make So as you combine the refine time with the manufacture time, colonials win out The things that stop the colonials steamrolling the wardens is as such: 1. Wardens have a selection of very specific tools for very specific situations, but ARE EXTREMELY POWERFUL ONLY IN THOSE SITUATIONS, FULL STOP, PERIOD, END OF STORY. 2. colonials equipment has a slight annoyance to manufacture, even if they can be made twice as fast 3. The tragedy of the commons Point 3 is the most powerful limiting factor for a faction like the colonials, where communicating is basically done only when shit hits the fan or when help is directly requested Colonials fight each other for the resources far too often, to where the devs 5x-ing the rates removed almost all of the friction, because then there was an overabundance If your suggestion were to be taken into account and added: 1. The collies gaining ground early war would mean they always have more resources 2. The collies equipment means they can have the overabundance as explained earlier 3. The wardens already have to deal with the resources issue, but now have less to so the same tasks with 4. We already have this same sort of system, so it would feel redundant, or remove part of the experience There's definitely more that I missed, but the wardens don't actually have anything going for them aside from team cohesion, they treat the new players who actually want to learn as equals rather than how the collies treat them, obstacles and resource sinks How do I know this last part? I've played with both sides and talked to them, and quite a few people just don't have the presence of mind or the perception broad enough to see this bigger picture, and are way too self-centered

[@CafeLiquerstreams]

my solution is make sure the Tank meta is no longer 'only tanks' make it so infantry can stand a chance against one... sure tanks like the 40MM tanks should be good against infantry, but make them worse against tanks, while you have the 68/75s be a middle ground, then the 94.5 tanks be DEDICATED tank killers, how do you do this easily? Tank's automatically have weapon spread no matter what, just make it smaller amounts, while an AT shell like the 94.5 have no real splash to handle infantry while the 40mm hits LIKE A 40mm HE

[@isacu74]

You still have concrete and PCmat (Rmat for facility) which can be mass produced from coal and salvage with the 5x more efficient harvesters (not nerfed for salvage and coal) and production rates. So it will partially compensate the nerf as comp will be less eaten for these secondary outputs and there will be more of them remaining for tank and usual Rmat stuff.

[@RobertLovesGames]

Yea you can but it's not a better way than it was before. At least from the facility players I talked with. But you are right at least we have some other options still. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this!

[@isacu74]

@@RobertLovesGames Yeah it does not compensate compared to last war. But I believe it makes us even compared to the pre-buff era and will replace the broken comp which will probably be too much a pain now. However it's my guess and only actual testing will tell.

[@user-xo9dt8xe2v]

I honestly liked the 5x resources and I actually liked the world of tanks during war 112.

[@RobertLovesGames]

I loved the 5x resources as well! I didn't like how many BT's and SHT's there were so if we cut that down just a tiny bit everything else was great!

[@OGSnoberry]

Why the fuck didn't they just make tanks cost 2x as many mats? That's effectively dropping the 5x to 2.5x specifically for tanks, so tanks become a little more scarce without it affecting OTHER resources like ammunition, weapons, medical supplies, etc.

[@RobertLovesGames]

Exactly...No idea why that was not their first balance attempt.

[@seawolf8482]

Honestly best fix is to revert the changes they made completely set it back to only 1 production slot at factories. Lost quite a few players because there was multi slots meaning they didn't feel needed to gather RSS anymore since it's so overpowered with the stationary harvesters. We all know the slots only came about because Devman was mad that people wouldn't let him use their facilities.

[@RobertLovesGames]

I don't know about this. I think adding more slots to factories as overall a good idea. It might just need fleshed out more. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this!

[@seawolf8482]

@@RobertLovesGames Devman intended effect for the multi slots was to allow solos/randos the option of being able to use these facilities others built. The effect they got was small and large clans that built these facilities monopolizing the queues to massively overproduce and still locking out the solo/random players from the facilities.

[@Raidensreal]

Let clans have private facilities that only they can access the stores of, but also have efficiency rating applied to them that varies based off of the amount of high tier suplies they deliver to the front. If they deliver a lot of tanks or other expensive items to harbors and storages in the public then it goes up to a 5x boost making everyone happy. If they don't deliver anything and stockpile a large amount without using it put them in ghost mode in the backline so that they cannot kill or block members of their faction take away their ability to lock vehicles toward members of their faction and remove ownership of their private facilities.

[@basedimperialism]

Unforseen consequences are that the decreased Comp output also means less Rmat weapons can be produced. Devs should have just increased the cost of tanks, so that stuff like tankettes and armored cars could potentially stay semi-relevant due to low cost, and Rmat weapons and vehicles like LUVs, handheld MGs, Mortars, Banes and Bonesaws, Armored Cars, etc. can still be produced in numbers that won't severely impact tank output.

[@galiantus1354]

Also... One way the devs could potentially help solo players with tanks (and make the frontlines more interesting) is if dead tanks leave behind a husk that could be harvested for wreckage. The husk would be destructible, to avoid clogging roads and chokepoints, but at the cost of not producing any wreckage. I'd want the drop rate for wreckage from each type of tank husk to be such that you'd have to harvest 3 or 4 husks to make the same tank. So for example, I'd want a Falchion husk to produce 3 units of wreckage, and a Hatchet husk to produce 2.

[@MrDirt]

How could they think it was a good idea to change it this way. It’s a good call to revert the output to how it used to be, reducing the BComp output by /5 would had done the trick, but turning people into human pipes is beyond me.

[@RobertLovesGames]

I have no idea. Makes really no sense to me. And I still don't know why they just don't take a little more time with it like one more war or something.

[@StylishYeoman]

Might have just been an oversight? Idk. Maybe their thought is that B.comp production should only be able to be fully utilized by really dedicated groups. Should be fixed

[@brichess8227]

It’s a complete lack of thought by the developers and a disdain for taking any kind of advice from the community

[@Vodkahans]

the balance was easy to make, reduce the number of component from damaged like the patch did and reduce the number of damaged component produce by time, so you could have harvester full every 2-3hours. Double the production rate = more babysit and more transport to do. I did the math some week ago and it was like for 5k comp you need something like 70k damaged, that's insane, too much travel and time waste

[@RobertLovesGames]

Yea that would have been way better. 70k damaged is insane! They nerfed it to hard. Might as well get rid of it. Thanks for your thoughts on this!

[@NotRackon_]

The world of tank experience was fun, but having 200+ of the best tanks in a bluefin really killed the value of tanking

[@RobertLovesGames]

Agreed! Was nuts to see!

[@lone_wolf1239]

Thx for this video, trully helpful since my team and I just rejoin the game for war 113 and aren't aware of all the changes.

[@RobertLovesGames]

No problem! Glad it was helpful!

[@Sithis150th]

Idea, maybe increase power of Anti Tank? Perhaps maybe even make it so if a tank is destroyed it simply just doesn't disappear, make it that players need to scrap the tanks to fully clear roads, this would make it so eventually enough tank on tank action would mold the landscape and make it harder for them to operate. Idk how players would feel about this but ive always liked the idea of being able to use destroyed tanks to push up.

[@lbmember4637]

They shoudve just increased the cost of tanks or something, would punish solos more than clanmen, but tanks should be significant

[@RobertLovesGames]

I agree with this. Should have just changed the cost of BT's and SHTs.

[@scottsmith582]

great video as always! I think im going to sit this war out.... as i did last war... These changes are very demotivating for me as a logi player. Foxhole is quickly becoming an after though during gaming.... I do not like that.

[@RobertLovesGames]

Thank you! Sorry to hear these changes are demotivating you! Get some good rest and maybe wait for spring update.

[@skyrim654]

At least they didn't reinstitute region modifiers? Yet....

[@RobertLovesGames]

Oh my gosh I really hope they don't bring those back!

[@ender1720]

If they do, devman bad

[@1Kaisermerlin]

I dont play the game but fuel would be an obvious real life example of a logistical limitation. You cant sustain vast tank swarms if you dont have the fuel todo so. Making oil wells more contested for example.

[@RobertLovesGames]

Fuel is a big part of the game. There are some dedicated groups that go around the map to make sure their side has enough fuel. And tanks take a special kind of fuel so they can run out pretty easily on the front as well. It's not contested as I think it should be but it's in a pretty good spot right now. Thanks for your thoughts on this!

[@chengzhou8711]

I get what they’re doing. They are playing around with parameters and seeing how it affects the flow of the war

[@RobertLovesGames]

That would make a lot of sense to me. Good point.

[@BrokenSplinter]

Think the other factor at play here is the starting Map trying to push water fronts and other battle lines. I don't think quite fulfill my wish for tighter urban combats tho.

[@RobertLovesGames]

Oh my gosh I wish there were more options for tighter urban fights! We need like 2-3 more "major cities" to battle in on the map honestly.

[@BrokenSplinter]

@RobertLovesGames it's abandoned Ward and that's it as far as I can feel.

[@osowiec2430]

Most of the ppl who claim comps should be scarce are the same who think infantry on itself should be able to replace all the roles of other equipment, and for some reason think everyone playing with tanks and being able to have acces to BTs should spend many hours of boring grind. I think instead of turning players in human pipes, the DEVs should have increased tanks production time but kept the amount of comps for around 2x or 3x. These would be way better changes.

[@RobertLovesGames]

I agree! Production time increase would have been a better change to try out. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this!

[@user-ub3we6id2f]

Perhaps I will express a very unpopular opinion, especially after what I heard in the video. But I really disagree with what was said. I am a person who has been in the game for several years, but at the same time, I am someone who has almost never dealt with logistics. And I was probably the only one from my circle who believed that the game would be fixed, you just need to wait. And I was glad that the developers made at least such a small update, which, although bad, corrects the real problem with an overabundance of resources. But what I would especially like to draw your attention to: Let's imagine ourselves two and a half years ago, before the Inferno update. What has changed since then for the average single player. But in general, nothing, except that some (in fact, many) component fields began to be occupied by clans. After all, just like then, an individual player can still simply dig up components for a separate tank. And changes to broken components will affect clans and a total overabundance of everything. It's still a crutch though. After all, developers can correct the current situation by releasing, most likely, an unfinished, large update, or make such a TEMPORARY crutch. Which doesn’t relieve them of the guilt for bringing the game to such problems, but still. (It could be different, but that’s the way our developers are) When I saw the update itself I was just a little inspired. But after seeing the location of the map and hearing some of your arguments, I was probably even delighted. After all, now the developers have given only 3 MPFs per faction, one of which is on the islands, and now there are victory points on the islands too. This means that battles for the sea have become a real need, which should have happened earlier but all the same. At the same time, there will be less concrete. Which will speed up the end of the war. And the argument that every player should be able to get their tank in the warehouse, I think, is not the best. Since tanks became infantryman 2.0, yes, we’ve heard it a thousand times. I would like to end my tirade with this: As for me, such dissatisfaction with a crutch is partly a momentary distorted wish: “How is it possible, we made tanks in the hundreds, and the developer made it so that we make them in the thousands. And now they are taking away the old mechanics too, how is that possible?” Maybe I'm a victim of my context. But we do so much of everything that sometimes we can’t even consume it. I am a witness to how the factory workers of our clan simply burned out at the factory, and we could not even imagine spending so much. Hundreds of containers with tanks in public warehouses at the end of this war, and dozens of tanks at the end of previous wars, show this. In my opinion, we should understand a little more precisely what we WANT and what we really NEED. And from here you can already demand something from the developers.

[@user-ub3we6id2f]

Hmmm, somehow I wrote a bit too much. *translated using Google Translate so not everything may be accurate. Oh yeah, thanks a lot for the video

[@user-qs1se9gi8u]

Only Oil gives 5 times the resources! U only empty a field faster with 15 recipes in harvesters, but you lose 78% over farming it by hand.

[@RobertLovesGames]

I've heard it works anywhere there is a harvester. So is that incorrect for salvage fields?

[@nonnoticingsenpai1079]

The best way is to hit the production of tanks, at least most of them. Remove most combat vics from the MPF, and put them AND their variants in the garages again. leave maybe MPT's and Silverhands in the MPFS for late game, but just hitting resources doesn't fit this. Just makes the game worse for everyone, have to hit the production. Leave a way to do it (garages) and just alter garages, like putting more of them across the map and instead of hammering in them have them print like facility pads do.

[@Rockmonsterdude]

Man, I enjoyed last war so much. I could just grab a tank and enjoy the fun. The big regis that control the comp fields doesn't want the solo player to have fun, only clan man is allowed to drive tanks and everyone else needs to suffer as an infantry.

[@RobertLovesGames]

I think casual and solo players will still have some opportunities to get some "free" tanks in mid to late war but there may be less to pick from with these changes. We will see.

[@polish_boi3108]

I feel like we need to approach the tank problem from multiple angles to prevent WoT end game. I feel fuel and ammo are taken for granted. Fuel shouldn’t be made rare again mind you, but a return to the old fuel consumption for tanks and some heavier vehicles should be considered. This would make the tank horde really march on its stomach. Also either reduce ammo capacity on some/ most tanks or make tank ammo less available somehow (opinion’s plz). All this along with the ideas Robert mentions could help to curtail tank land

[@polish_boi3108]

To add to this foxhole is a game where different type of players support on another. So to sustain a huge amount of tanks on a front fuel, ammo, and Bmat makers should feel under pressure to keep up supply. Unlike rn where u roll up to a front with 20 other tanks and there’s thousand of rounds of 40mm hundreds of 68/75mm and basically unlimited fuel. On top of that tanks feeling too independent of supply lines in general.

[@elpargo]

as always very on point Rob... I think we need to look at this into the bigger overarch... i'm confident their goal was to get more raw resources to make hoarding not needed (remember they also made unprocessed material transfer stations public) they did it right for salvage but they orvershoot it for components ergo suicide Ares :) That said I think they were not looking at that problem and if you take a look before people used to complain components are too abundant (due to damaged) that "back in my day" it was even harder to get a tank. I think they are shooting for that they want to make tanks a little harder to get... maybe they overshoot it but I believe that's their goal. And yes agreed with this being an overcorrection

[@capras12]

Personally I believe the best solution is to just slow the rate that B-comp harvesters. But they NEED to keep private queues, if they don't keep private queues with such a system, then others will have issues with people hoarding comps.

[@RobertLovesGames]

I would have accepted that honestly. And you are right I think private ques should stay as well.

[@tell3131]

Did you go colli or warden for 113?

[@mivapusa]

If they wanted to fix logistics but still not turn the game into world of tanks, make the comps:rmat ration steeper. The bmat production would still be the same, and it would still be possible to make concrete, but all things rmat would be far more valuable.

[@RobertLovesGames]

True! I like this suggestion! Thanks for sharing it!

[@NoEndingInSight]

From my understanding the queues are strickly designed around solo or small groups. In the previous system, checking on them every 55 minutes means that players can more easily "horde" the queues. Expecially with the recyclers as you could easily hold the processing queues with how long each cycle was and how much you could store in your private queue, that was also changed in this update. So I believe with this change it'll be easier for random people to get small amounts of components but that is because no one will want to camp them endlessly due to how much work they need. In reality the actual component output will end up much lower but maybe solo or smaller groups will be able to get components themselves through this method more consistantly. I agree that the change seems negative but I think I can see what the devs are aiming for with the change being different from what everyone has been suggesting. That is, making them more available to a wider number of players or random passerbyers rather than a small number of dedicated players. In your video you mentioned stockpiles of tanks being available for players will be reduced, I agree but that is a pretty unreliable metric since it depends entirely on the Logi focused groups providing those public tanks. I've seen wars where broken components and entire component fields were claimed privately and nothing was produced publicly. You'd have a component region that felt like there was no components, tanks or rmat gear was available whereas that same region a war before was overflowing with public everything. I think a simple improvement might be to increase the public stockpile size of the broken component harvestor so there is a bit more buffer between when it needs to be unloaded if all queues are set to public, which also makes it more enticing to randoms when they look at the map and see it completely full.

[@Ozmourne]

I think the "spreadsheet" approach to balancing is not really working out, even devs at Helldivers 2 are saying this. Some things need reworks instead of just turning up or down certain values to implement a 'quick' (lazy) fix

[@brichess8227]

Foxhole developers aren’t even spreadsheet balancing they’re vibes balancing at this point

[@RobertLovesGames]

I agree with this. I would rather see mechanic reworks than just adjusting numbers.

[@ethanthomas9765]

Hey think about this, make it longer and more expensive because there were issues and complaints that the tanks for example were coming out in too much numbers/supply. Which in my opinion doesn't make since, massive amounts of equipment or tanks are available if logi and engineering are in mass production and constantly under maintenance. They added factories etc in recent updates for better and more in detail logistics. Aka push out a lot of equipment and vehicles out much faster and efficiently.

[@shieldphaser]

The issue with foxhole is that if the gathering is too easy, too many people have too much stuff, which messes up the combat balance. By contrast, if the gathering is too hard, people get annoyed that they have to do it - it's work, not fun. These two spheres overlap. There is no "sweet spot" in the middle.

[@kemian4156]

Stopped playing the game awhile ago, I cannot fathom how people can "claim" ressources that are publicly available, in a game I paid for, just because they are part of a group that formed on a discord someday. Like, I want to play the game, but clans just destroy it, specially warden clans.

[@RobertLovesGames]

That makes sense. I think both factions have issues with clans that do that, and that is coming from someone that has played both sides quite often. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this!

[@MrHades974]

Hello, can you explain tour calculation about the basiting of the harvester to 5 min plz? I ve found personaly 27,7 min

[@eliomernk7058]

Ok, I don't know the statistics, but I personally think reverting the changes to pre-facility change would be best, with a change though - what if Broken Components could only be made directly to pcmats & other facility things? This would leave casual players enough space to harvest at fields, placed harvesters, and harvesters not producing broken comps, while facilities could use the remaining broken comps (Or regulary comps if there aren't any broken comps around) I know this would probably be a strange systems (To many or too few comps, i'd guess) but I also don't feel like calculating it out right now/I don't know enough about how comps work I also feel like I'd rather have to few comps than too many - imagine a world where killing a quadiche was a feat of skill & effort or something, it'd be pretty cool Great video, it's nice to get a bit more insight on how these changes work

[@RobertLovesGames]

This could be a good idea! I would be willing to try it. And I agree I'd rather have fewer comp than to many but I think if my thoughts on this change are correct it may have dropped it down little to far. Thanks for sharing your idea and thoughts on this!

[@kcjftube]

I was still on break when I head the 5x news, and I went "Lol, guess my break is gonna go on a bit longer" Baffling how they'd think it's a good idea to make such a steep change on a fundamental aspect of the game... only to then over-correct it Starting out with something more moderate or adjusting with many options mentioned in the video surely would have been much better received by the player base Making tanks a bit more abundant (probably a good thing) also makes slower tanks comparatively more costly, and I doubt it's going to be addressed given how siege camp has been implementing balance changes over the years

[@TheHairyHeart]

I have no idea if the devs are just repeatedly making bad decisions of if the community are complaining for the sake of complaining. Regardless, it did make me not wanting to purchase the game for now.

[@RobertLovesGames]

Fair to wait until the next update that will come out in about a month or so.

[@destroyergr723]

My experience with a small 3 man Division squad i have is that i prefer the cost of making tanks being higher rather than changing the orders again. The 5 orders made colonials go toe to toe with warden tanks and that is because we are not sacrificing Bts cooking spots for upgrading spathas or vise versa. We can cook all facilities tanks at the same time. At previous Wars i was seing some Bts at late game and 7-8 falcions trying going against high quility tanks ( warden tanks) at every front and they always stomping us. Now that has changed cause of the five orders in my opinion. In War112 i made in those 38 days A big parking Base / A Talos facility upgrade and made mostly myself arround 12+ Talos and one of those i upgrade it to Tier 3. For those who don't know what that means in terms of Steel /Parts i can tell you Its a LOT. I shoudn't been able to do that in my opinion with 3 people even though the two of us played mostly!. Maybe the Harvesting proccess should be the same but the Rmats cost should be 5x? For example a Falchion needed 135 Rmats which equals to 2700 components. What will happen if i needed 135x5 for a Falchion10k + components for one (Base form) Tank!?

[@yeheed6607]

Honestly should have just reversed the changes to before and then made component fields respawn faster/bigger. Like thats still work, but better and faster

[@RobertLovesGames]

True. I would have been willing to try this idea out. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this!

[@Covah86]

I just got done reading about the L.O.G.I strike. Potential for that to happen again?

[@RobertLovesGames]

Possibly. I wouldn't say it's at that point quite yet. It really depends on what they come out with for the next spring update.

[@Captain_Rex14]

Component Shrinkflation

[@RobertLovesGames]

Exactly lol

[@MrQuantumInc]

IF the goal is to prevent clans from guarding resource nodes then nerfing passive collection and forcing people to grind and swing that hammer helps. You need the components availiable to be less that enough for world of tanks. If you limit the total number of components that can be collected, then that causes guarding, i.e. players try to prevent others from collecting so that their clan can get a bigger share of the limited supply. The other options is to make people grind. Tanks are limited by people's willingness to grind and swing that hammer, but everyone who is willing can get the components they want.

[@TarsonTalon]

I think medium tanks should require petrol again. There's more petrol than we know what to do with now anyway. Also, it could be an additional balancing factor, since the Colonial LTD requires a facility to make, and the Warden HTD doesn't. Because the LTD is on a Light Tank chassis, it wouldn't require petrol. Moreover, the Ballista could just require diesel, whereas the Chieftain could require petrol. To more differentiate the Falchion from the Spatha, the Falchion could be the only medium tank in the game that accepts diesel. Of course, rather than just make tanks more expensive, I think there needs to be a defense structure update.

[@imlivingunderyourbed7845]

Do you think it would be better if they introduce automation instead of increasing resource gathering? Automation would be something both sides need to invest heavily in before they reap its rewards, and not needing people to gather resources would free up a lot of players to stand in as infantry or logistics.

[@alpbalcaev7583]

dmn those ritorical questions in the start of the video they make want to write comment explaining it all but then i remember its RLG video i gotta watch to the end before writing comment idk if its good or bad ( writing this at 2.00 mark xd )

[@RobertLovesGames]

lol! I get some people that write 3-4 comments because they pause the video at each question and write a response ha

[@ALE199-ita]

wouldn't it be a much smarter change to just, lower how many components harvester made? like don't change anything but that, it would achieve essentially the same thing and with less ball busting, wouldn't it?

[@RobertLovesGames]

I think that would have been a better idea. Not sure why they didn't try this first. Thanks for your thoughts on this!

[@pp-vm7lf]

usual Siege Camp balancing with a sledgehammer instead of a mallet. rip all the tanks I only got to play world of tanks for a littlebit.

[@RobertLovesGames]

Well said. Will be interesting to see how this current war goes.

[@niconilo97]

What about we see some wars whit high économie and some wars whit low économie ? :) They could add it like a set up thing !

[@RobertLovesGames]

True! I would be willing to try that!

[@The_War_Pug]

Haven't played foxhole in like 3 years but why don't they just slightly increase resource values over a period of time?

[@RobertLovesGames]

Someone else mentioned this as well! I think it's a really cool idea that they should experiment with!

[@creations4708]

I’d rather have over saturation of components and everyone gets some than the usual we were here first and we’ll fight you for them as per usual in the wars if they make tasks easier everyone gets more time to go have fun with the things they want instead of everyone fighting for a in game resource when we’re on the same team 😅

[@RobertLovesGames]

I agree. Rather have more resources than situations that create a toxic environment. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this!

[@whatupss1]

There any why to tell the dve fix this to make it better like what you guys think 1x - 2x instead of the .8 don't know

[@Zanith50]

i barely did logi last war now i wont even bother :D

[@RobertLovesGames]

Ha! Well I'll say again skip logi with anything involving comps or tanks otherwise all other logi should be still good.

[@mittri1990]

To me as a casual gamer, broken components never was or will be an option. I see it more of a clan resource. I just hope I dont get shot when I show up with sledge just wanting to get enough for 1 jeep.

[@ender1720]

If you get shot because you are trying to farm components, then thoses guys are as***** Stealing components is bad, farming it is not, ressource nodes don't belong to anyone

[@RainbowQueen23]

I just want higher pop hexs but I know that prob won't happen 😢

[@RobertLovesGames]

Same!!

[@giannerino2350]

only one pissed about this change are collies that can no longer farm 500 spathas in less than 24hrs.

[@RobertLovesGames]

Ha! Maybe! We will see how this war goes.

[@deusvult6229]

if you like left clicking on piles of scrap for 23 hours a day it doesn't mean that everyone does

[@giannerino2350]

@@deusvult6229 if you like that even the most mediocre player can make a SHT a day by himself with 3 hours of gameplay doesn't mean that everyone does. aaaaand that's why they nerfed it after the war, take care.

[@deusvult6229]

@@giannerino2350 "the most mediocre player" as if clicking on piles of scrap and driving around is something that depends on skill and not the amount of time you put into the game. And if 3 hours of gameplay is a small period of time for you - get a life. "take care"

[@giannerino2350]

@@deusvult6229 you are clearly a 2 wars player, not gonna bother arguing with you. Devs already nerfed the economy of the past war so you are the one coping

[@razorb4ck]

Thanks, I was about to re-download is grind fest'

[@RobertLovesGames]

Only really a grind fest for tanks and navy currently. Everything else is fine.

[@kevinflynn4191]

I'm in a wait and see mode but first impressions on the changes leaves me skeptical. Seems like a too clever by half change to me which is worrying. I had a great time last war and didn't use tanks very much because the was also more things that take rmats to make over all Banes, Luniars ect.

[@RobertLovesGames]

I think that is a good stance to have. Like I mentioned at the end I may be wrong about these changes and maybe it will actually be a good thing. But we will see.

[@Spriggals]

I never want to see claiming/hoarding resource fields in this game ever. War 112 was the perfect harmony of solo, casual, hardcore, and clanman I've ever seen in this game. They really should just make tanks more expensive instead of nerfing the resource output. Put it in a way so clanman can still get their tanks and I can still make a couple crates of banes for the boys.

[@Spriggals]

Also one possible solution is to make tanks take way longer to produce. As long as everyone can get comps It would be okay.

[@Pearly31034]

Rip my free time 🙏

[@RobertLovesGames]

lol! Just don't farm broken comps and you should be good!

[@riseup3150]

What if tanks got the world of war ships treatment double down on tanks being a [facility only item] much like how the battleships work, including turning tanks into their component pieces chassis, tank turrets, engine blocks (if the scale of foxhole cant increase then make it more detailed i would say) removal of all tank varent from the (mpfs)and(garage) leave armored cars and all push guns untoched. This will clearly be a massive disinsentive for public tanking and im sorry, but if the 5x resources exemplified anything its that the teams and factions within said teams want to share there hard work to have fun together and thats not a bad thing The overall production tanks and artillery should be a small factor in a big war. By and by it would be very nice if bunkers had more artillery resistance factors but thats a can of worms for another time.

[@burprobrox9134]

I just watched your video on the 56 patch yesterday, decided I was going to try foxhole again, now see this and back to not interested at all

[@RobertLovesGames]

I would say if you are someone that is dealing with components and tanks to wait but if you do other things in the game then you should still be good to play.

[@ninny65]

They could have just made tanks more expensive lmao

[@RobertLovesGames]

Wish they would have tried that balance change first!

[@geronimo5537]

Nerf clan man and make them grind. Im happy. Lets have more faction focused effort instead of whoever the biggest clan is simply benefits the most. As for why the devs made this change. They let someone in the office "try it their way" and I bet they pointed saying see it doesnt work if we let them have it easy! So its back to business as usual of devs not respecting the players or acknowledging them.

[@RobertLovesGames]

I agree with this! More collaboration between big groups and small or solo and casual players. We will have to see how this war plays out. Thanks for your thoughts on this!

[@hoanglinhle4468]

So, we go back to the time when people kill each other for Flatbed?

[@alexturnbackthearmy1907]

Hardly. They are not abundant, but not scarce either, and that on basically day 2, by the mid war there would be dozens lying around as always.

[@elchupacabra1406]

Personally I would have removed the bcomps to comps and replaced it with bcomps to Pcmats. I also am of the mentality that comps especially for tanks should be farmed for on the fields with mobile harvestors/sledges, gathered from comp mines and rmats sourced from wreckage. If it was up to me, I would even remove all medium tanks from the MPF and make them garage exclusive so that you have to hammer each medium tank and actually take care of it, unlike what was seen in 112 where people would suicide dozens of ballista and spathas at a time to night cap towns and crack conc. This update will make running a comps facility to be much more annoying but I do like that a change was made so soon and hope the devs can find the right balance. Irregardless, I don't think it should be a common occurrence to see hundreds of tanks untouched in public seaports and bluefins, losses of equipment should matter.

[@RobertLovesGames]

Couple people have mentioned this. I think it's an idea they certainly should try. I agree with you that we shouldn't see massive ballista rushes like we did and hundreds of tanks on the field or stockpiles. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this!

[@astronautpug728]

I'm not concerned about this hotfix, I think it's a good change. Ultimately people will either stop using bcomps or bash their head in trying to force it. Most people will focus on the other methods of gathering components and component products. It's like the Shotgun nerf. It was unpopular to people who used shotguns at first, but it was ultimately what was best for the game and a few years in nobody really cares anymore because there are plenty of other alternatives. The bcomp nerf will play out the same way.

[@scarecrow559fresno]

make a video about how clanmen bully individual players with near impunity

[@RobertLovesGames]

Ha I don't think I would ever make that video. I don't want to divide the community. But I do talk about the differences between clanman and solo players a lot in my videos.

[@jackskinner2152]

if the problem was that tanks where to easy to make could the devs just add extra steps in making the tanks to increase the time and resource costs like needing to make the wheels and Armor instead of the only requirement being refined materials. This could make the tanks more expensive and fix the problem (noat I don't play the game so this could be terrible plz don't yell at me)

[@HoneyCruiser]

This means no more public tanks, infantry equipments required rmats, and no more public upgrades. Every clan starts botting at comp fields. great job Siege Camp, you just bring "clanman bad" culture back. BTW, War 112 is the least toxic war I have ever experienced as a 3000 hr+ facility/frontline player. I really like this game, but I'm also sick of seeing people fighting over resources/msupps/losing tanks.

[@wuatduhf]

The Logi Union has been silent for a very long time now. It would be nice if this hotfix got them active again and working to advise on how to actually fix the core logi issues, as the devs severely lack an economics understanding. I don't fault them for that - they're programmers, not economists. However, they know that 50% of the gameplay is logistics and balancing numbers, so it's a bit inappropriate for them to not have someone on their team that can get tangible solutions.

[@whiteoscreen2383]

Joke on you i was the solo player who build 6 BT in war 102 😂

[@RobertLovesGames]

Oh my gosh! Like your own facility and all resources by yourself? Did you log on every single day and play like 3-4 hours minimum?

[@whiteoscreen2383]

@@RobertLovesGames Yep was testing how many BT i can make :D also at the end of the War I got like a lot of Mats to make more BT

[@democracy_enjoyer]

should have just made tanks more expensive

[@RobertLovesGames]

Agreed! They should have tried that balance change first.

[@GenericUser394]

Ngl, I’m surprised there weren’t QRF super heavies 💀 and the WOT meta is useful (a little) bc you can practice your AT skills, so not a perfect storm imo

[@aaroncabatingan5238]

Just did what people did IRL. Make AT weapons stronger. Tanks are still useful. But spamming them is unwise.

[@lbmember4637]

People would just camp with their tanks in bases which would be boring

[@Lorryslorryss]

The goal seems to have less components made, and have less player time spent on it. I don't play this game, but that sounds like a tricky systems problem. A solution might be to bottleneck resource availability in way that isn't based on player effort (ie resource availability). But that would lead to hoarding, inequity and toxic interactions. Just like it does in real life when "land" is a constraint. Increasing wait times seems to be mechanically the same as increasing the amount you need to spend on factories to get the same outputs. Perhaps scaling costs and power to make expensive things more situational and less resource efficient would help push the meta to more simple equipment? I don't know. it's tough. The solution other games use it to omit the production part entirely and not have players do things that are a chore, but then it wouldn't be foxhole would it?

[@Stan_2]

As a frontline tanker and logistics player, I am actually looking forward to the change. A lot of peoples argument points are to do with PCon production. You can still do this pretty lazily with salvage and oil fields. I don't believe you will ever have a perfect solution to "letting casuals have toys" in an MMO such as Foxhole. Games like this inherently require more teamwork and group play, I believe making a change like this should encourage more people to at least consider joining a group and playing with that group of people, you're also much more likely to stick around and play with a nice group of people, thus helping the retention of players. Regardless of much fun toys you throw at solo casuals, they will simply just not have the same retention rates of those who play in groups who help you get more easy access to those kinds of sandbox elements. Not to mention even if you did increase the general cost of tanks, you are screwing over the solo/casual player more who simply just logs on to manually sledge out their components. People arguing over oil fields is nonsensical since one oil well could legitimately sustain a large group due to the 5x output from it. Before the fac change you only had the power of 3 wells from a single field, now you have 5 well power for the price of one, there is more than enough oil to go around for all. Last war I had zero desire to play, maybe it was general burnout, but to me it defiantly just wasn't fun or rewarding to play there. Endless artillery and endless tanks. Still hoping for some kind of nerf to artillery shell production so doubt I will play much at the fronts still, but even now I still want to play and help sustain a coal fac with the group I play with. We can see how this war plays out, but I personally believe the game plays better when comps are more sparse. Sorry for the long yap, but I do genuinely believe that this change was a step in the right direction, the only thing I agree they should adjust is letting harvesters hold a lot more so you don't need to babysit.

[@infinitekarma4949]

The developers have always aimed for scarcity. It’s unsurprising that they immediately backtracked after their attempt at trying something new. They definitely went about this the wrong way though. The tank spam was a lot but tanks should absolutely be available a lot of the time. There are so many other things that could’ve been altered but they went for more work on the players end which is one of the main downsides of Foxhole.. I don’t mean to be pessimistic in saying this but after Update 26, the devs have always put a lot of focus on making the game player driven without quality of life. I hope they find a new solution for this soon.

[@voggi9450]

Couldnt they just keep logi fun and recources plentiful and make tanks more expensive?

[@RobertLovesGames]

Exactly. No idea why they didn't try that first.