The 'Frankenstein' Finnish Fighter - Mörkö-Morane

The Finnish military garnered a reputation in the Second World War for making the absolute most out of everything they had. In today's video we look at a prime example - the French fighter modified to fight another generation!
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Intro
0:00 - 2:18 Introduction
2:19 - 6:14 Story
6:15 - 7:25 Combat History
7:26 - 8:36 Aftermath

[@aviationdeepdive]

Had to do the voiceover on this one myself due to a bit of an emergency, hope you don't mind!

[@Juhnaaa]

Its great! Well done video as always 👌

[@abukharan5774]

Nice. But compared to other channels, the usual narrator for the videos is a pleasant change.

[@TheLateBird7]

You did well! You could take turns with the other voice.

[@TalkingGIJoe]

better anyway...

[@WarblesOnALot]

G'day, I like it. Have you seen, "World's Greatest Fighter Pilot...; Ulmari Juttilainen !" It's in my "Personal Aeroplanology..." Playlist. 94 Victories while never having had his Aircraft hit by anything fired by any Aerial Enemy... Versus 352 Kills, 14 Shot down & Crashed plus one Bailout... Mannerheim never needed to replace any Aeroplane shot out from under Juttilainen, Adolf had to replace 15 which Hartmann broke while using them...(!). Life is Relative, and Observer-orientated. So saith A Rock (EinStein) lol. Have a good one... Stay safe. ;-p Ciao !

[@finntastique3891]

The photo at 2:44 is of Aarne Juutilainen, A.K.A. "The horror of Morocco", due to his past in the French Foreign Legion. He was the brother of Ilmari Juutilainen, the WWII pilot with most kills (94) outside of Germany.

[@sulevisydanmaa9981]

Incorrect correction : NISHIZAWA, SUGITA over 100

[@jakkeledin4645]

Not recorded wins!!!! Juutilainen kill 125 but in record is only 95. Best aftet Germany. Best of Best, no any bullet in his plane by reds pilots. Play all to time against 10 -20 planes.

[@mkdee9656]

Arvasin että joku kerkesi ennen minua. Saiko kukaan selvää, mitä nimeä yritettiin lausua?

[@linus1936]

@@mkdee9656 Aarne Lakomaa

[@yourcasualfinn2213]

​@@sulevisydanmaa9981Those are unconfirmed kills

[@pvahanen]

Swedish Count Erik von Rosen donated a Thulin type D airplane to Finland in 1918, which became Finland's "first" air force plane. It was equipped with the BLUE swastika of the Count, a symbol of good luck used a lot in history. The blue swastika became the national emblem of all air force aircraft until 1945.

[@finnberglander7816]

The Swastika has been a symbol of Whites throughout history. There's nothing wrong with it.

[@captaintoyota3171]

Im.pretty sure they kept it after 1945 but eventually changed it, yep they may have changed it right after ww2 but kept it after while the emblem was used in the Finnish Air Force logo until 2017, when it changed the swastika with wings to a golden eagle with a circle of wings,

[@mikkoessex9231]

As a Finnish American I loved this me and my dad ran a museum. New sub!

[@LouAlvis]

The brilliant Finns took one of the worst ameican fighters, the Brewster buffalo , altered it and it became one of the highest performance airframes of the war

[@glennwiebe5128]

What could they have done with an already good plane, say a p51, p47, etc?

[@UnclePutte]

@@glennwiebe5128 I figure they would have reaped similar results as the bf109's the krauts gave. The bottleneck is in maintenance and replenishment though, so p51's and their fire-sensitivity woulda been a difficult fit.

[@esajuhanirintamaki965]

@@UnclePutte Several Finnish pilots claimed P-51's shot down, but it is questionable. Some Soviet types mistaken? It was very difficult to recognize enemy plane types in the heat of air battle with high adrenaline, sweat pouring, heart bouncing and always beware of mid-air collisions, when only way to see which plane is look wings or fuselage cockade, star, or cross... I have read from literature, that US and GB did not give Merlin Mustangs to the Soviet Union. So they must have been A-36 (formally P-51A 's with underwing bomb racks) with Allison engine.

[@LouAlvis]

@@UnclePutte so hurricains and p 40s would have done them well

[@UnclePutte]

@@LouAlvis Yup. Hawks did well, Warhawks woulda' been a step up. Hurricanes actually served in Finland - tiny numbers though, and their performance is largely lost in history.

[@HerraTohtori]

Great video, the Mörkö Morane is an interesting aircraft born out of necessity. In summer 1941 when the Continuation War started (along with little known military operation in the south, Barbarossa something), the most capable fighter in the Finnish Air Force was the American Brewster Model 239, or B-239 for short. This de-navalized export variant of the F2A-1 (US Navy designation) was of course already outdated in the bigger picture at that point, but was more than a match for most of the Soviet fighter aircraft present on the Leningrad front: I-16, I-153, MiG-3 and some LaGG-3 variants. The other important aircraft at that point were Curtiss Hawk 75, Fiat G.50, and only then the Morane-Saulnier M.S.406 and 410. The Hurricanes were too few in numbers, and the older planes were more or less delegated to other duties than front line combat. During the Continuation War, Finnish Air Force then started receiving Bf 109 G variants from Germany: Initially the G-2, and later various sub-types of the G-6. These mainly replaced the aging Brewsters as the main fighter aircraft of the Finnish Air Force, but of course that was not enough. There were several programs to build or modify existing types into first rate capable fighters, and certainly one of, if not the most successful of those was the Mörkö Morane. Other programs worth mentioning: VL Humu - wood-winged aircraft based on the Brewster B-239 but powered by Soviet Shvetsov M-62 engine; cancelled due to poor performance projections. One aircraft constructed, currently in a museum. VL Myrsky - entirely Finnish-designed fighter aircraft built mainly out of wood composites, armed with four LKk-42 12.7mm machine guns and powered by Pratt & Whitney R-1830-SC3G. Total of 51 aircraft was built, including prototypes, and this aircraft was actually used in combat. Unfortunately by the time it reached the units, it was already outdated and its performance was overall similar to the Brewster B-239. Still, it was a well-liked aircraft and the Finnish Air Force did get some use out of it during and after the war; however the wood construction was vulnerable to elements and after several aircraft were lost due to structural failures caused by delamination, the last flight occurred in 1948 and after that all planes were scrapped. There is a project to rebuild one Myrsky-II as a functional but not airworthy museum piece. VL Pyörremyrsky - Didn't get finished during Continuation War, but one flying prototype was constructed and test flown with good results. Aircraft used the same engine as the Bf 109 G (DB 605A) and shared certain design philosophies with some of the Italian fighters also using the same powerplant. It would have been quite the excellent addition to the Finnish Air Force during the war, but of course missed the deadline and was not put into production. After the war, the Paris Peace Treaty allowed Finnish Air Force only 60 fighter aircraft and the Bf 109 fulfilled that niche at the time. The only example of this aircraft is in museum.

[@esajuhanirintamaki965]

With Pyörremyrsky, VL designed some "people's fighter" versions named Puuska. These were simple and smaller things with DB605, but these remained as projects.

[@ralphscholer7345]

The Finnish pimped up that French Sparrow completely into a Hawk! They surprised me by their Technical Capabilities! On more brilliant Story filled with unknown facts. Thank you for this awesome stuff!

[@aviationdeepdive]

Thanks for watching!

[@Ah01]

The conversion into Mörkö-Moranes came too late to have much effect on the continuation war, first ones delivered to the frontline use on july 44, the same month that saw the soviet all out offensive on karelian isthmus come to a conclusive halt (= failure, if you will) and a big junk of the troops taken elsewhere to fight the germans. Still, interesting construction.

[@ralphscholer7345]

@@Ah01 Thank You very much for your interesting answer! Now I know more!

[@zoolkhan]

...maybe the fact that the invention of a flight data recorder is from finland around ww2 times - deserves honorary mention.

[@hannujarvela9209]

The Name Mörkö came from the engine sound of Klimov M105P, wich is actually a derivate of the original Hispano Suiza 12Y-31. Having a lot higher compression ratio due to 2 staged supercharger and different exhaust manifold ( and maybe looser russian tolerances and missing a couple of ignitions every now and then :) ) made the engine sound a lot rougher and louder, hence Mörkö. Also they changed both the radiator and the oil cooler. The Swiss made derivate of Morane, D3801 about equalled the performance of Mörkö The alternative story for name Mörkö is the first modification series hanging radiator wich was butt-ugly. This video shows both types. For some reason I think Mörkö-Morane was referred as Bugbear-Morane, not Bogey-Morane. I cannot find a source for this tough.

[@aviationdeepdive]

Interesting! Thanks for the info

[@ngauruhoezodiac3143]

Mòrkò means bogeyman.

[@michaelbevan3285]

It also used a German gunsight, 109 G2 oil cooler and Klimov exhaust pipes, as well as better pilot armour. The original French cannon was known to jam in action because of a poor feed system and the 151 was better.

[@vesaroivainen]

2:42 person in the picture is Aarne Juutilainen "Horror of Morocca" nickname he got after serving in the Foreign Legion. His little brother Ilmari Juutilainen served as a fighter pilot.

[@propman3523]

Great research and presentation! What great credit to the Finnish nation.

[@OscarReyes-ud4vz]

Didn't know this fighter! Magnificent machine, a real pity so few saw combat and also all were destroyed.

[@alessiodecarolis]

It's amazing how brilliant were the Finns, not only as fighters, but also in mechanics. With an Air Force composed mainly by second rate aircrafts they literally mopped the floor with the reds. Imagine what they could've achieved with Mustangs or Tempests! And their engineers were au pair with their pilots....

[@VVitchaven]

Its very important to mention that blue swastika on Finnish planes had nothing to do with nazi Germany and it was used by Finnish Air Force since 1922.

[@davidwedlock2622]

So no repainting needed in the Continuation War

[@herptek]

@@davidwedlock2622 Anti-fascists are such envious losers. Finland was never overrun by communists.

[@RoyalMela]

@@davidwedlock2622 Finns started to use blue and white roundel during war when German war crimes started to see daylight.

[@AveragePootis]

I love how well the War Thunder footage was edited to make it looks proper for a video like this

[@aviationdeepdive]

Thanks!

[@RvM76]

good point

[@andrewfortenbacher1176]

Wow, it reminds me of the excellent movie SISU, but in aircraft form! Well done!

[@steffenrosmus9177]

Sisu and excellent movie??? So you think eating at MC Donalds is thebsane a 5 star restaurant 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@jannelonnqvist2947]

Sisu is an excellent action movie. It doesn't make much sense but as an over the top action movie it is great!

[@smokeonthewater5287]

This document skipped entirely the most successful plane types the Finns had: Fiat G.50 and Brewster Buffalo, which achieved an incredible 33:1 and 23:1 kills to death ratio, respectively.

[@bigbrowntau]

I'm sure with this much attention to detail, this channel will do separate videos on those airframes. This one was just restricted to the one type.

[@Juhnaaa]

Finland ❤💪🏻🇫🇮

[@drianmortiz9375]

Such a great story about the history of the Finnish military aviation industry, well.done.sir thank you for this informative video 👍👍

[@aviationdeepdive]

No worries, and thankyou for watching!

[@ivanhicks887]

Thankyou for the Very Very Excellent Production Hoping to see More

[@aviationdeepdive]

Thanks, will keep them coming!

awesome video, thanks

[@robertrivera9162]

So many neat planes to model, thanks for the video. I like history and building models, these kind of interesting videos provide the opportunity to customize models or combine models to replicate these aircrafts.

[@rogerkay8603]

Excellent video. like your work fella!

[@aviationdeepdive]

Thanks!

[@TalkingGIJoe]

Morane Saulner was a pretty good design company... the style and capabilities was right up there with more mainstream designs!

[@veryrancid3128]

Big ups on having original video material👍 even as being Finnish i havent seen these clips

[@KorbinX]

Well done mate!

[@Atstudiotrev]

Yay for the awesome narrator!!! MUCH BETTER, and knows how to pronounce the words! 👍

[@lohikarhu734]

Great video! Suomi at its best, up against the wall, and fighting on....

[@jariheikkila4782]

Fantastic stuff 🎬🇫🇮

[@ngauruhoezodiac3143]

The Finns also made airfames made of wood that had the DB 601 engine of the Bf109.

[@EneTheGene]

*one airframe, the Pyörremyrsky prototype

[@politicalsheepdog]

Nice video on materal I have never seen before. I was aware of their other aircraft but not this conversion.

[@warhawk4494]

Nice video

[@tapio4142]

Thank You!

[@trevorgale1176]

Don't mess with the Finns.

[@esajuhanirintamaki965]

Lars Hattinen was killed in air accident in Koivulahti near Vaasa in January 1961. He was then Aero's civil airline captain. (Aero was later christened Finnair). The plane he flew was war surplus C-47, which was converted to DC-3. Captain Hattinen drank heavily with his co-pilot in Kokkola during preceding night. Weather too was awful then, low clouds. 25 people were killed in crash. Finnish fighter pilots considered Mörkö-Morane as "Second class fighter plane". Mentioned "second class" comes from railway passenger wagons interior classification. First class were very rare in Finland then. It was mainly for foreign passengers between Turku - Helsinki, in boat express trains. It had very fine seats, carpets and six-seat compartments in well maintenanced cars. Its tickets were most expensive, in both sleeping and day service. The second class had plush-clad ordinary soft seats too. These were built as two-open-saloon cars (non-smokers and smokers). These were seen all over the railway net in Finland. Cheapest class was third. It had wooden or thinly clad banks in whole car, divided for smokers and non-smokers too. Combined wagons were in use too, day and sleeping cars. Practically, Finnish trains's first and second class were quite equal. As was considering between Messerschmitt Bf109G and famous Mörkö-Morane. Heartly thanks for this video! I'm a railway and aircraft fan.

[@Keinapappa]

Necessity is the best source of motivation.

[@peterwilson5528]

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are..." - Theodore Roosevelt

[@drianmortiz9375]

very inspiring speech, for a well known leader of the most powerful nation in the world 👍👍

[@peterwilson5528]

@@drianmortiz9375 I would not say it is so powerful anymore. All empires rise and all empires fall. By powerful do you mean a retreat from Afghanistan after 20 years? The Taliban victorious. Proof positive that the USA is not the most powerful nation in the world.

[@johno3888]

Clever and resourceful the Finns !!! Necessity is the mother of invention indeed !!!.......

[@johnryder1713]

Give the Finns an orange box with wings and they'd probably do a lotta damage

[@user-js7gx3fw9q]

Same with us romanians 👍😜

[@johnryder1713]

@@user-js7gx3fw9q Too true, you built your own I heard over with Ed Nash, as well as the Polish Export version of a PZL 11, and did good job on both

[@unclegargameldgargameld4888]

A Buffalo with a big Russian radial would have been worth seeing

[@aviationdeepdive]

That’s for sure!

[@Leonidae]

Well, we did modify the Buffalos a bit. Ours were lighter and much more reliable.

[@unclegargameldgargameld4888]

@@Leonidae its good how the Finns made use of aircraft that other air forces considered not much good & used them successfully

[@seppokohonen758]

It was under development. A copy of Brewster airframe with Shvetsov M-63. The end of the war, however, ended also the project. See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VL_Humu

[@EneTheGene]

I saw some mistakes and wording that could be considered misleading so I made a video fixing what I saw. I hope you will see it even though it's quite long. I love the visuals of your video!

[@aviationdeepdive]

Thanks, I had a look :)

[@Hamishtarah]

The German built a Frankenstein aircarft as well. they mounted a Messerschmit BF109 engine in a Spitfire.

[@captaintoyota3171]

I like how Finns kept the swastika as they used it before the nazis. Sadly modern day they finally had to remove it as ppl didnt understand

[@botmarvin7241]

Hey, i think i made that skin for war thunder, cool to see it being used for something!

[@Ned-Ryerson]

For future reference: "ö" is pronounced roughly like the i in "sir", not like an o.

[@spoonzor1]

American english

[@danhubert-hx4ss]

The MS 406 had considerable development potential as proven by the French and Swiss also.

[@holgernarrog962]

The MS 406 was already inferior to the Me 109E in 1940. In 1943 with just 250 hp more it was inferior to any fighter of that time.

[@danhubert-hx4ss]

@@holgernarrog962 And your point is?

[@holgernarrog962]

@@danhubert-hx4ss That the MS 406 was completly outdated at that time.

[@danhubert-hx4ss]

@@holgernarrog962 You are off topic. I do not compare anything, just state that MS 406 could be, and was, greatly improved on the original design.

[@holgernarrog962]

@@danhubert-hx4ss The improvement would have been great in 1940 but was a waste of efforts in 43. Finnland would have done better mining more nickel and selling it for Me 109.

[@SirusFIN]

can you do video about the VL pyörremyrsky?

[@aviationdeepdive]

Absolutely, within the next couple of weeks!

[@johndupre5887]

No mention of the Brewster 239 and Curtiss Hawk 75?

[@aviationdeepdive]

Because this video is specifically about the Morko, I'll be sure to cover those in future videos

[@simonaarekol3336]

I absolutely love how the finnish kicked the Soviets' asses during WW2. You don't mess with the finns.

[@finnberglander7816]

They did for a while; unfortunately they had to end both the Winter and Continuation Wars on Soviet terms.

[@jounisuninen]

@@finnberglander7816 But not on the original Soviet terms. The original Soviet terms in both Winter War and Continuation War were the unconditional surrender of Finland. Stalin tried to get the exile Finnish communist Mr. Kuusinen to Helsinki and make Finland a Soviet vassal state. That didn't quite work in the end, though.

[@finnberglander7816]

@@jounisuninen Exactly. Neither war ended how the Soviets or the Finns wanted it to.

[@Jayjay-qe6um]

That's to bad, it'll be nice to see a flyable Morko-Morane today.

[@Russell-re8te]

Necessity is the mother of invention!

[@rosypic1824]

❤❤❤Finland

[@joevespa3157]

Good story

[@AssassinAgent]

Probably the most beautiful plane of WW2. And I'm absolutely not biased due to being a Finn

[@vladintool]

Be ready to get back yours territory from imperialistic RuZZia up to the 1938 border line. All, what is stolen, must be returned to rightful owner. You - Finns - are the great people!

[@user-js7gx3fw9q]

Was the ...? Fiat g50

[@tomasinacovell4293]

Wow, they made a P-40-Cobra-Stang!

[@mebeasensei]

Australia also had a Frankenstein …the Boomerang, and the Japanese had Ki100

[@neverendingmods]

Every weapon the FINNS used since WWI have been Frankenstein hodgepodge put together. Some were disasters, some were excellent. Lots of weapons were left behind by invaders or purchased from countries who were enemies of their enemy at The time.

[@andrewcarlson3486]

Shoutout to Lars Hattinen

[@mikepette4422]

sad they didnt save at least 1 airframe

[@smokeonthewater5287]

A correction: During the winter war both English and the French were sided with the Finns and promised substancial military help against the Russians who had formed the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact with Hitler to split the Europe between the countries (which is why Poland was invaded in co-operation by Soviets and the nazis). Sweden blocked the supply convoys and denied the military help from Finland. This forced Finland to seek supplies where ever possible and after operation Barbarossa, Germany became the only source of supplies along with Italy. By that time the Soviet Union had become a common enemy with Finland and Germany and on the other hand England became hostile due to allied Russia waging a war against Finland. And the French, well...

[@esajuhanirintamaki965]

One thing too: Stalin had to discuss with Finnish real government to end Winter War. Stalin was afraid that his campaign with Finland would spread to greater war, if France and Great Britain involves with Finns. At the very beginning of Winter war Stalin had created a puppet Finnish government named Terijoen hallitus (= Terijoki Government), which he recognized as an only Finns to make negotiations. Typical Soviet theatre, "maskirovka"! Terijoki-government had Otto Wille Kuusinen as Prime minister. Otto Wille himself had escaped to Soviet Russia in 1918, he was in reds side in Finnish civil war. Its War minister was Aksel Anttila, who too was in civil war 1918, mostly being as a sentry. Aksel had been an apprentice in Finnish state railway, working in Vilppula station. Aksel Anttila went then to Toivo Antikainen's military school and was promoted as an officer in Red army. He finally was conquering Berlin in 1945, as general-lieutenant. Why am I telling this Red general's story? My aunt married with Anttila-named fire chief in early '60s. Her husband was born in the same farm house (Anttila) in Vilppula in year 1930.

[@jonttul]

The British and French had no intention of actually helping Finland. They demanded Sweden and Norway let their armed forces travel through their ports and railways to "help Finland" but if Sweden and Norway had agreed, those forces would have instead occupied the Norwegian ports and Swedish iron mines to cut off German supply of iron ore.

[@esajuhanirintamaki965]

@@jonttul Shortly said: - there was a big chess game being played. What were Finns in this game? Just boors!!!

[@MRtapio5]

Well not fully true. French and Brits had zero interest to actually help finland. Even Finland realised it when their promised "supply" was already 1 week away.

[@smokeonthewater5287]

@@MRtapio5 Regardless of that, politically they were supporting Finland, opposite to what was said in the video. During the winter war Finland was seen as the victim just as Poland was.

[@jereheiskanen1364]

Necesity is the mother of invention

[@samuelattas3864]

A great engineering feat the Mörkö-Morane was. To bad that shitty logistics and lack of production capacity meant that this great fighter never really was put into action in great numbers or in time...

[@canicheenrage]

Not that original an upgrade, considering the MS411 & up were using the french version of the 1000hp hispano suizas cannon engines...

[@khansaheb.7860]

Bangladesh had legend Squadron Leader Saiful Ajam fought ferociously against Israel & India for Pakistan Air Force from Bangladesh.

[@jannelonnqvist2947]

Quite far away from Finland, which is the topic of this video, eh? So not really sure what your point is... ;)

[@romanbrough]

I understood that the MS406 fighters were actually sold by the Germans to Finland after being captured from the French air force

[@KorbinX]

While some might have been sent, 30 originally sent from France to finland in 1940.

[@jannelonnqvist2947]

The first batch was bought from France during Winter War and managed even to arrive so it took part in Winter War. Majority were indeed bought from the Germans.

[@romanbrough]

@@jannelonnqvist2947 Thanks. I find the the aircraft used by Finland is a fascinating subject. I still wonder how they managed to keep all those very different types operational.

[@jannelonnqvist2947]

@@romanbrough Beggars can't be choosers and you just have to make do with what you got...

[@calvinoverman1626]

I LOVE FINLAND BEST OF THE BEST

[@gabrielkloster4502]

ready to kill

[@YuiYuria]

The Finnish swatizka is a mirror version of what you posted, And it is the Morko-muaani, from what I have heard from my Finnish friends.

[@jannelonnqvist2947]

Nope. Finnish one, like the one Germans started using later on, rotates counterclockwise. In some rare instances some finnish planes had one rotating clockwise on one one. I haven't researched into why that happened but it was only a few odd planes.

[@YuiYuria]

@@jannelonnqvist2947 could have been doctored afterwards, so I take your word for it.

[@jannelonnqvist2947]

@@YuiYuria No need to take my word; research it and you'll see that I'm right... ;)

[@YuiYuria]

@@jannelonnqvist2947 We call the inverted swatiska: Manji here in Japan, it is a sign of good luck. What the Germans used in WW2 is seen as the sign of bad luck. So, you Finns had the Good Luck symbol.

[@jannelonnqvist2947]

@@YuiYuria Please describe how German swastika is a symbol for bad luck and Finnish one one for good luck.

[@Cube-3710]

The VL pyörremyrsky didn't even make it to war...

[@hawnyfox3411]

^^^ Oh, Dear Jeeez = That SUPERB photo' of Soviet Hawker Hurricane '42' is worth the price of admission alone Full marks for including such a luscious photograph....

[@hgsert2733]

In battle of France, this plane had less powered engine and weapons. But even this, the french pilotes detroyed 900 german planes cos the plane had a solid structure.

[@orionion]

You’re pronouncing Mörkö wrong, Ö sounds like I in dirt. But I guess that’s just splitting hairs, or, as we saying in Finland, screwing commas.

[@peterwilson5528]

Luck always plays a part in war.

[@herptek]

This wasn't about good luck, despite the insignia. There are limits to fighting against sheer bad luck, no matter the competence.

[@MisterOcclusion]

You can't make a silk purse from a sows ear...unless you're Finnish

[@primpal08]

Adapt, Innovate.

[@moosifer3321]

Ukraine take note. If your Enemy gifts you spares or equipment, PLEASE give them back in BETTER working order! New one on me - Excellent!

[@holgernarrog962]

The MS 406 was already in 1940 inferior to the Me 109E, the Spitfire, the Dewoitine 520. In 1943 even with a 1100hp motor it was inferior to any fighter fielded at that time. In 1943 typical fighters were Yak 9, La 5, Hawker Typhoon, Spitfire Mk IX, P38, P47, FW190, Me 109 G6

[@Leonidae]

In the end, it's the pilot that makes the plane perform to its limits. Just look what we did with the outdated and hated Brewsters.

[@esajuhanirintamaki965]

​@@Leonidae Hated Btewsters? It was called as "Taivaan helmi" (= Pearl of the sky). It is true, that "Pearls" performance was no more enough in 1944, but Finns had performed well with it. Other users did not.

[@Leonidae]

@@esajuhanirintamaki965 It was only us Finns that loved it, but the rest of the airforces that used it didn't like it at all.

[@esajuhanirintamaki965]

@@LeonidaeMostly, it was pattern of training. Finns had an advanced trainer named Pyry. If you learned properly how to cope with Pyry, there was no limits in the sky. You could handle even the barn-door, if it had an engine and propellor (and engine had two cylinders dropped out!). Fiinnish pilots air victory achievements with Messerschmitt Bf109 is best evidence of that.

[@harrymattah418]

As under any English-speaking video mentionning France or French material, there is a bunch of obsessed people making sure everyone share their anti-French obsessions.

[@UnclePutte]

Not a single Hobgoblin remains, alas. What a shame. The country back then really had trouble appreciating its heroes.

[@stupitdog9686]

You can't "say" .... boogieman ...... on youtube????

[@MRannikko]

Please do corrections to this video! This is another fail to people who use War Thunder wiki as a database! Or another open source data at the internet! And then make a video of these false information's!! There was never idea to use 12,7mm Berezin at Mörkö. And that's a fact! First proposal was to install 20mm ShVAK cannon but it was changed quite early to install MG 151 cannon in it. All Mörkö-Moranes had an armament of two 7,5 MAC's and MG 151 cannon. DON'T SPREAD FALSE HISTORY!!!!

[@aviationdeepdive]

Frank Joseph, in his 2012 Book 'The Axis Air Forces' writes "While not always readily available, this German armament was replaced by 12.7-mm Berezin UBS machine-guns from stocks ... the French warplane was no longer a Riippuvatsa or Murjaani, but Mörkö-Morane: the “Bogey” or “Ogre Morane." Christopher Shores, in his 1969 book 'Finnish Air Force, 1918-1968' writes, on the Morane "Supplies of the MG 151 were in any case dubious , and numbers of the captured Russian Beresin 12.7 mm . B.S. machine - gun were available."

[@MRannikko]

@@aviationdeepdive 3 years a go I started this topic of mine when War Thunder revealed Mörkö Morane in game and I spotted this error of wrong armament. I actually read couple books about Mörkö but it was a bit hard because there was nothing focused purely on Mörkö. I was actually first who did make research about Mörkö here in Finland. In that topic of mine there are answer's why that wrong information was spread. 12,7mm Berezins was tested (also 12,7mm Browning's and 12,7mm LKk/42's) but only in M.S. 406 models. Early on this year was published first history book of Mörkö. I personally know this writer and he was helping me with couple of cases based on Mörkö when I was writing that forum topic. And I know 100% that Frank Joseph and Christopher Shores have wrong information of Mörkö. If you wan't to read 100% accurate history of Mörkö read that topic of mine or contact Jukka Raunio who did write that first official history book of Mörkö. It's called " Pula-ajan korvike vai menetetty mahdollisuus? Mörkö-Morane " and yes it's Finnish. Link to my topic. old-forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/478743-m%C3%B6rk%C3%B6-morane/

[@aviationdeepdive]

@@MRannikko You initially discredited my video by saying I use wt wiki as a database, which is simply an insult. I use proper publications. If they're wrong, there's nothing I can do. I can't do a trip around the world to archives to check every single tiny detail of each video I make. I can't read Finnish, so even I ordered that book you cited it wouldn't do me much good. If you're convinced you're right, go around and fix websites, contact them and cite sources - don't come and attack me and claim I use 'wt wiki' as a database.

[@MRannikko]

@@aviationdeepdive like I said using open source database like Wikipedia or other. This wasn't any personal attack.🙏 This book was actually revealed now because there was so many question marks around fact's. Original blue prints and testing reports was scrapped somewhere in 1960-1980 when old Finnish aviation factory was moved out of Tampere.

[@bourbonslurpee]

you should make your own video if you believe that this information is incorrect

[@vanpenguin22]

Well, you know, The big swastika all over it didn't exactly shout out, "Preserve me!"

[@aviationdeepdive]

The Finnish air force insignia has literally no relation to naziism. It was on Finnish aircraft before Nazis even existed

[@pvahanen]

Swedish Count Erik von Rosen donated a Thulin type D airplane to Finland in 1918, which became Finland's "first" air force plane. It was equipped with the BLUE swastika of the Count, a symbol of good luck used a lot in history. The blue swastika became the national emblem of all air force aircraft until 1945.

[@esajuhanirintamaki965]

@@pvahanen Count von Rosen was a member of secret club, which was for only pure Swedish gentlemen. With this, it had however the tiny anti-semitic hint!!! And this is a fact! Hitler's swastika had its roots in anti-semitic press in the end of 19th century in Vienna. Why swastika then? This was used as an emblem in press. So, it was easily sawn different compared to Davidenstern (six-point star, as in Israeli flag today).

[@MRtapio5]

Another uneducated individual

[@panuanterosirkka2506]

​

[@williamcattr267]

Interesting that the Finns decided on using a symbol (swastica) to mark their planes which was in heavy use by Germany. Sure they decided to end that practice with the end of the war in 1945.

[@aviationdeepdive]

The Finns had used that insignia on their aircraft since before Nazis existed, it had no correlation whatsoever. Use of it was phased out of course due to the extremely negative reception of the symbol following the defeat of the Third Reich.

[@williamcattr267]

@@aviationdeepdive Yes, that is true of course, but the insignia (like the M-18/M-35 helmets) any use of German planes also fell out of use. While the Finns may have put it on their planes first, it wasn't like it was done decades beforehand. Hitler comes along and that insignia is everywhere. It is clear that the Finns wanted to tread a very fine line with the idea of collaborating with Nazi Germany, while not getting too cozy with them at the same time. Yes, given Finland's geographical location and all, they didn't have much of a choice with getting help from Germany. The western allies were of little to no help for maintaining Finnish autonomy, and Stalinist Russia was looking to gobble them up.

[@pvahanen]

Swedish Count Erik von Rosen donated a Thulin type D airplane to Finland in 1918, which became Finland's "first" air force plane. It was equipped with the BLUE swastika of the Count, a symbol of good luck used a lot in history. The blue swastika became the national emblem of all air force aircraft until 1945.

[@herrakaarme]

@@williamcattr267 If you knew anything about the Finnish people, you'd know Finns are stubborn. Just because some insane dictator decided to later start using the same symbol, it won't make the Finns drop it. You might say it was replaced as an aircraft symbol as a part of the peace deal. It did stay in use here and there, though, by the defense forces. Over the decades, it has been removed from some of those less noticeable places. The Air Force Academy still uses it to rather limited degree. The Finnish Air Force is, as an independent branch, one of the oldest in the world, so they probably hate to be pushed around. The people who singularly hate these kinds of things and claim ancient positive symbols can forever be ruined by some contemporary madmen, will probably also demand that the letter "Z" must soon be removed from our keyboards. Fortunately the Finnish language doesn't natively use the letter. Some other languages aren't as lucky. Too bad for them.

[@williamcattr267]

​@@herrakaarme You say the Finnish people are stubborn?? Sure, and so are alot of other cultures out there in the world (take Ukraine for instance). Americans showed their toughness and resiliency against Great Britain in the American Revolution, and again in the War of 1812. So, the point is that toughness is nothing unique to any one culture. It probably takes one tough Jewish Finn serving in the armed forces of Finland to look the other way and not be offended by the symbol. Imagine how African American service people feel if they have to report to an Army base that is named after former Confederate Generals (traitors in my opinion). Yes, American is finally taking steps to rename these bases and distance themselves from the racist past. Comparing a swastica and the accompanying notoriety behind its use by Hitler, and then the letter "z" by Russia is not even a close analogy with considering. Personally, I think the "z" on the side of Russian vehicles looks like a drunk teenager painted it on with a can of cheap spray paint; it looks cheesy, cartoonish, and dumb. The Russian's looked better with the red star, though don't misunderstand me, I am no sympathizer of communism either, considering the untold millions who were oppressed or killed under the Red Star. Even the U.S. Army 45th division used the swastica on their unit patches (see link below): www.asomf.org/7-facts-you-probably-dont-know-about-the-u-s-army/#:~:text=For%20the%20first%2015%20years,in%20the%2045th%20Infantry%20Division. Hitler insane? No two ways about it. Regardless of how the Finns adopted the swastica in 1918 or why, it is no understatement that it is and will always be overshadowed by what one insane dictator did with that symbol from 1933 to 1945. Quite a number of people lost their lives under that symbol (both those living through it and those being shipped over seas to fight against it). Yes, we won't have to worry about the letter "z" offending anyone and having it removed from keyboards and smartphones around the globe. After all, it is not like neo-nazi groups and other hate groups are using a "z", but, they are still using a swastica for their brand of hate mongering. The seeming innocence behind the swastica (and its use in ancient India, and even among Indian tribes in the Americas) is and will forever be shattered and linked to Nazism, Hitler, the SS, extermination camps like Auschwitz and the subsequent death of more than 6,000,000 human beings (men, women, and children) during the 20th century will still be loathed more than 2,000 years from now. That type of infamy will never be expunged from the history books. So, I don't think any language that uses "z" will have to worry about omitting it from their language.

[@CaspCic]

Exchanging an engine with a better engine is no sign of genius. Believe me. I did this with my car.

[@pvahanen]

Did you steal it from the Russians? From the enemy in a war situation?

[@esajuhanirintamaki965]

Is your car a war fighter machine? Are you living there, which is flooding Chevy big-block V8's, such as 429's? Here we had own resources, same time as Yanks were pouring everything possible (Studebaker-trucks, Lucky Strike cigarettes, machine-guns, cotton, Campbell tin soup cans, locomotives, even popcorns, P-39 Airacobras,Wrigley chewing gums, Bourbon Whisky etc) to the communist Soviet Union.

[@Fathom324]

Why did you screenshot yarnhubs video and use it as a thumbnail?

[@aviationdeepdive]

I didn't. As far as I can see they haven't even made a video on the Morko. If we could chill with the baseless false accusations maybe?

[@josephwest508]

Back stabbers!!!

[@rosypic1824]

❤❤❤Finland