The Fundamentals of Lute Playing, Episode 50: Nails!?

In this episode I discuss the use of nails for Renaissance lute. While I know it is a controversial topic, I think it is one with exploring, both for players who need nails for classical guitar, and because I think it is likely that some lute players in the 16th century used nails.
The "rudimentary" nail drawings I mention in the video : )
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[@Jaskiira]

I come from a classical guitar background, but after a month of learning the lute, I called my nail tech and canceled my next appointment to fully commit to no-nails lute playing! Haha. I really enjoyed Brandon Acker’s video on classical guitar without nails and absolutely fell in love with the sound of playing with just flesh after years of being told that nails were a must. I may have given up cute nail designs and long nails, but I’ve gained a whole new approach to guitar and an incredible instrument to explore with my short-nailed hands. I think experimenting with both approaches is the best way to go, no matter what instrument you play. It’s so easy to get caught up in the mindset of ‘this is how we’ve always done it.’ That’s why I love videos like this, that challenge those ideas! These kinds of discussions are so valuable!

[@laudonschuett3019]

Thank you so much and thank you for sharing your background on this. I hope everyone learns to enjoy all the variety! I think we will all be happier that way : )

[@jemith]

Congratulations on the new baby!

[@laudonschuett3019]

@@jemith thank you! : )

[@nealzshipe]

Great video, Laudon! I think this is the best video on this topic that I’ve seen so far (and I’ve watched most of them). I’d like to chime in as someone who’s played both with and without nails on the lute. One thing I think people often overlook when making this decision is: What does your audience think? There’s often so much focus on what the HIP community considers, and less on how it’s received by the non-lute playing public. Having performed with and without nails-not once has an audience member mentioned a difference in tone, or even noticed visually. Again, thanks for this fantastic series.

[@laudonschuett3019]

Thanks so much, Neal, that really means a lot! I definitely agree. Unfortunately, the feelings of the HIP community can have a big impact on careers and I've seen people shredded for ridiculous reasons (miss out on concerts, made fun of in forums, etc.). My hope is that by convincing the HIP community to be a bit more open-minded, it will be good for everyone : )

[@nealzshipe]

@@laudonschuett3019 Hi Laudon, great point, and one I had not considered as a hobby player. Bummer to hear about that sort of negativity. impacting careers. I think your doing great work to change the narrative!

[@laudonschuett3019]

@@nealzshipe Thank you, Neal! I still think your point is extremely valid and I will carry it with me : )

[@brettgoodroad7747]

The most thorough and even approach to the topic! Yes, why no finger picks on Milano!? 👀

[@laudonschuett3019]

I’m glad you liked it! I hope I wasn’t too harsh when talking about the finger picks : )

[@brettgoodroad7747]

​@@laudonschuett3019 lol. Nah. It's a really interesting point..... 👀

[@StevenWatsonMusic]

Excellent talk, thanks for making it Laudon. I didn't know the story about Milano using fingerpicks, how curious!

[@laudonschuett3019]

It's really interesting, isn't it?! The quote comes from Antonio Costabili writing to Duke Alfonso of Ferrara and he says,"...the first of whom is called Francesco da Milano, who played using two silver thimbles, inside which were two small quills and he plays with such speed that in the judgment of those who hear him the is unique...." (English translation by Douglas Alton Smith). Franco Pavan has really done a lot of research on this so worth checking out: www.francopavan.com. Cheers! Laudon

[@StevenWatsonMusic]

@@laudonschuett3019 Thanks, yes I had just found that quotation, very interesting. Do you know if there are other examples of lutenists using fingerpicks? I'll check out Franco Pavan's site.

[@laudonschuett3019]

Franco has a lot more info, but I had written down Fabio Buonsignori as another lutenist that used them. I’ve heard that Franco actually found some surviving examples. This is an excuse for me to go catch up on his research. I only know him through a mutual friend, Anne MacNeil, who is a specialist on Isabella d’Este. Some years ago we were looking for details on a lute made entirely from ebony (minus the soundboard) from the d’Este court. The finger plectrums, unfortunately, we’re just a side thing that came up and I never returned to it and got distracted doing other things : )

[@StevenWatsonMusic]

@@laudonschuett3019 Thanks Laudon, I'll contact Franco, this is very useful!

[@BradRiceMusic]

Happy 50th episode!! I personally have had a hard time returning to classical guitar with no nails, it is not the same. I am thinking of getting a Stauffer in the near future with some gut strings and going back at it though, without nails this time. Also, good advice to keep nails short because in my experience I encounter a lot of guitarists online with crazy long nails and they just don't need them that long and my guess is no one ever told them that, they just see nails and so they grow em. Not to mention, everyone's nails are just different, some curve, some are flat, some wide, etc. Very experimental and personalized. I was asking Paul Kieffer recently what he thought about "dedillo" technique on Vihuela and he told me to go ahead with an index nail for that, and I found that interesting and it made a lot of sense. Do you have thoughts on that technique and using a nail?

[@laudonschuett3019]

@@BradRiceMusic thank you! Thomas Viloteu has a nice video on how to personalize your nails. You wrap the strings in sand paper and play them until the slopes are formed, and then polish them. You essentially build the shape of each nail to fit to your technique. Definitely something I would do if I decided on keeping nails! Nails with dedillo makes a lot sense. In fact, when I first read about about the technique, the first thing that came to my mind was the single finger strumming that you see in the Sakura Variations (John Williams did a recording I listened to a million times as a kid). I figured it was like that but on a single string. The advantage to growing out a nail for dedillo would be that you are hitting the string with the same type of material going up and down. With clipped nails, it is nail going down, flesh going up, which I honestly don’t think sounds very good. I haven’t had a lot of interest in doing it, but if I did, I would definitely try it with nail! You will have to let me know how it goes if you decide to try it : ) here is the Viloteau video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gZS4Z6KwjrlpZ9Esi=5eBpaOCSgQs10GP8

[@banjoboy01]

@@laudonschuett3019 what were the main differences between lute and vihuela regarding right hand technique?

[@laudonschuett3019]

@@banjoboy01 The wild thing about the vihuelists is that they did EVERYTHING. They describe thumb-under, thumb-out, middle and index alternation, dedillo, etc. The vihuela sources are much more detailed when it comes to right hand technique than the lute sources. They are very interesting. In terms of differences, it seems they generally gravitated toward thumb-out (but not as a rule and some did use thumb-under).

[@laudonschuett3019]

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[@miqbri]

I would love the experiment with the sound but you won't catch me dealing with nails unless I have to. :D I did not enjoy having longer nails at all. I'll try the finger picks before I start growing my nails out ever again.

[@laudonschuett3019]

@@miqbri I totally get it! : )

[@banjoboy01]

have you ever tried using fingerpicks Laudon? I started using a thumb pick recently on guitar for folk, blues, ragtime... Dalza stroke and tunes with strummed chords work with it on lute even fast runs are fun to pick but I can't go further with a thumb pick, it gets too "plucky". have you seen any videos of lute finger picks being used? my problem has been the thumb nail catching which I shorten and reshape, need it for flamenco. you can always play from either side of the fingers using thumb out or under so that's not as problematic

[@laudonschuett3019]

I haven't had a chance to try historical thumb picks (the thimble with a bird feather) but I have used modern finger picks and found they are great for some things and not so great for others. Bor Zuljan had a video where he plays with historical finger picks and it was quite nice! My issue was the thumb nail as well. Are you playing thumb-under or thumb-out?

[@banjoboy01]

@@laudonschuett3019 do those things (historical thimble type) exist, I experimented for the lute with just a basic plastic thumb pick where I heated and bent the tip and of course you can shape the tip and take the edge off. I got that idea from "Zookies" thumbpicks they have different angles you can buy. I'll play both ways in one tune, something short and sweet thumb out and then anchor the pinky for a fast thumb under run. am I in trouble?

[@laudonschuett3019]

@@banjoboy01 That is not necessarily a problem. Nigel North has a very fluid right hand (check out some of the Dowland videos he has on KZbin). I also tend to flow back and forth a bit because sometimes a chord or moment will sound better in one or the other. Yeah, alzapua and tremolo definitely benefit from nail. There are some people I really respect who advocate for no-nail tremolo but for me, it doesn't sound as good. So, keeping in mind that you need to keep those nails, I think there are a couple things you could experiment with. I am assuming that the main issue is with your thumb nail. First, your strings. Do you have wound basses? If so, it may be worth converting to something like Aquila Reds, which are unwound. They tend to be less "clangy" and, to my ears at least, sound better with nails. My next question would be what type of stroke are you using on your lute basses? Rest? Free? If you are using free stroke, maybe experiment with building a confident rest stroke. If you are using rest stroke, maybe try free? If that doesn't work, you may need to try plucking more with the pad of your thumb and see if you can avoid the nail altogether (might not be possible depending on length). I would try all of these first in thumb-under and then in thumb-out, being very methodical and "testing" each. Maybe set a day or two aside to just work this out. Just some ideas off the top of my head. You are always welcome to share a video and that might give me more! : ) Cheers, Laudon

[@robertpurrenhage1400]

Yikes! Those fingernail drawings look like claws (to someone who can't grow nails - mine delaminate and split). I'm curious, are they really extended so far out past the fleshy tip of the finger?

[@laudonschuett3019]

@@robertpurrenhage1400 I never said I was an artist 😂😂😂 I just wanted to make the slopes clear : ) that said, I do know some people who really like them long and sound great!