The Future of the PAC-12 - Comments from WSU Pres. Schulz on Options, War Chest, Timeline, & MWC

[@hickorydock501]

I took aout a map of the Western United States and highlighted all of the locations of the Mountain West schools plus OS and WSU... It looked balanced, travel between schools made sense, full of many potential rivalries, beautiful. Let's keep it regional and let's grow!

[@atgdcommish608]

The travel works, but the Pac can get a much better TV deal with a new super-G5 Pac-X conference. And more frequent college football playoff payouts and college basketball tournament conference shares.

[@nashmonti120]

@@atgdcommish608the MWC took a pay cut on their current tv deal to get more exposure, so if WSU/OSU are team players and use the PAC-12 Network assets to help produce more/better tv content, than they could try and get a lot more money from the tv networks on their next deal. If WSU/OSU joined or merged with the MWC, they should be able to collectively get a deal that would pay each school north of $10m, maybe even $15m.

[@MikeMize]

The Pacific West Conference. PacWest!

[@SurfCityBill]

That's my choice, too.

[@jeh58]

I also want to talk about the fan base & boosters of OSU. WSU is probably not much different. I am a member of the 247 Beaver site and a majority of fans there do see a merger as a very last resort. When Jon Wilner and Canzano write something they don't much like them anyway, especially Canzano. John Canzano has been both positive to OSU but has called out the school, fans & coaches when he felt it was needed. Most of the time I agreed or respected what he had to say, but many of the fan see only with orange colored glasses. Most fan bases are the same. As for Wilner they feel he only care about the California schools, I think he just does his best to report the facts he can verify. The OSU fan base wants to take the full two years, and then some are talking about going independent. The independents are: 1-ND is ND and they have a great media deal and viewership, 2-UMASS, UCONN, ARMY, these are on the East coast around a lot of close FBS school (as apposed to the West). This makes it easier to schedule because less travel costs. It is also has to be mentioned UMASS, UCONN, & ARMY will be in conferences nest year. BYU did it for a while but the had a religion behind them. Army never has a problem scheduling plus having the Pentagon behind them as well. All this is to say I don't think the Beavs and WSU can afford to go independent with no media deal & trying to sell games À la carte. I have said this on the Beaver board as well as explain the the rest of the college world already sees the PAC2 as G5 now. A few agreed but mostly got down voted. I think the presidents are just trying to pacify their base fans & donors. Maybe an AD & coach or two. I know going independent in Baseball has save the OSU team from mass portal action. As for the MBB & WBB, I was hoping they would go to the MWC.

[@jeh58]

As for what Canzano posted about the minimum athletic budget, I think there might be something there. He talked about if there is a full merger teams have three years to get the spending up to at least 60 million. There are 4 MWC teams (SDSU, AF, UNLV, & CSU) that are over 60 million. There are 4 teams ( FSU, BSU, Hawaii, & USU) over 50 million. SJSU, UNM, WY, & UNV are in the 40 million range. OSU & WSU are in the 90 & 80 million range. I do think it is fair to force the schools to work to get this numbers up a least to the 50s level.I am sure that OSU & WSU will eventually lower down some due to cost cutting. I want the Beavs & WSU to keep what ever money is left over from the "War chest" for themselves. I do like Steve's idea that after a merger hire some one to determine the Best name for the conference: PAC14, MountainPAC. PACMTN, OreIda14, or some other sponsor. I am in my sixties now and I want this to be decided. I want my Beavs to have a conference & just play sports. I am fine with is being with any or all of the MWC teams.

[@Spitfirethedragon]

If the MWC had a better media deal? Several of the schools would hit the number. San Jose State and New Mexico are in cost cutting.

[@jeh58]

​@@Spitfirethedragon Regardless of what the future hold school will have to get their spending up somewhat or they will become irrelevant at the G5 level. Sixty million maybe too much for right now, but 50 million seems like a fair number to put on schools. Give them 3-5 years to try to work up to those levels. They need to get fans coming to the games. What ever the conference turns out to be the media deal should be somewhat higher. Say the media deal was to be 99 million for the conference, split 14 way would be about 7 million per team, but if you drop out the bottom three teams for lack of commitment then the teams would be up to 9 million per team. The media companies don't care if you hav 20 or ten teams, they pay basically for the top teams that draw interest. This is why USC & UCLA wanted uneven revenue sharing, they were the main draw of viewership and were in the main media market. The duck have the NIKE branding & money. The Huskies have the market & viewership. Just like BSU has the best branding & viewership in the MWC.

[@Spitfirethedragon]

@@jeh58 Plus Boise State has the backing of Albertsons as well.

[@SurfCityBill]

​@@SpitfirethedragonMicron is the big player in Boise. I wish they would step up and support the program.

[@Spitfirethedragon]

@@SurfCityBill Albertsons is a grocery store chain. That store chain merged with Kroger and Kroger supports Louisville. To keep the Albertsons brand on s sponsor college team? Boise State is the team since the Albertsons was founded in Boise. That makes Boise State and Louisville as siblings as they are funded by the same corporation that owns both.

[@aBrewster29]

There’s nothing OSU/WSU can piece together that is clearly different from a G5 league. It might be the best G5 league, but you’re still facing the same uphill battle on perceptions with schedule strength. You want the argument to be whether or not MW schools are as good as their 10-1 or 9-2 schedule indicates, because no one on the national stage is going to be arguing that a MW team is better than its 7-4 record indicates. Even if it’s great football, parity kills perception and interest in a G5 league. You need fluff in the league to create that perception. Instead of maying through the nose to effectively kick out Nevada, Hawaii, and San Jose St, negotiate to include them on favorable terms that alleviate the burden of them being a mouth to feed or a ball and chain for future realignment opportunities.

[@atgdcommish608]

If they build the best G5 league, they make more TV money per year than the AAC or MWC, and they get into the football playoffs more often (big bucks) and do more damage in the basketball playoffs (even more loot.) It's a no-brainer.

[@aBrewster29]

@@atgdcommish608 I don’t think you understand the nuance of what I’m saying. Since the AAC lost its top three the MW is already the best G5 league and will only improve with the PAC2. Of course being the best G5 league is helps in jockeying for position, but at the end of the day you’re competing against other teams. SOS is more of a tie-breaker. Record comes first, and you’re up against teams from four other leagues with an easier path. So unless you can close the gap with the Big 12 and ACC (impossible), if you push too far cannibalism is going to knock out your contenders. Also, because the G5s don’t get their due respect, a game like 3-3 OSU and 3-3 SDSU isn’t going to create as much buzz as 5-1 WSU vs 5-1 Wyoming, even if both games have league title implications. People are just going to look at a 3-3 G5 and think they suck. It’s not fair, but it’s the environment. There’s so much inertia that you can’t boot strap your way up-the original MWC proved that with brands much more valuable than what we’re talking about here. You’ve got to play the perceptions game.

[@adamb6370]

Once the realignment with the tier 1 teams is done. It would be good to have 3 regional tier 2 with ACC, B12 and PAC. Redistribute some Eastern B12 teams to ACC. WestB13 teams return to PAC and elevate some of the best G5 (Memphis, USF, Tulane) to back fill

[@Spitfirethedragon]

Egos will get in the way again. Some snobbiest schools will block the best G5 schools out like Memphis, Fresno State, Boise State, App State, ECU, etc.

[@stischer47]

You assume the B12 schools would want to go to the ACC or the PacWest.

[@adamb6370]

@@stischer47 I do…for exact reason the B12 is giving FSU to come over. Easier path to undefeated and playoffs. Ability to showcase what they can do and get on the P2 radar. They left out of instability last time. If becomes stable. That conference could rival the B12 in T2, Utah, Ariz, ASU, Cal, OSU, WSU, Boise, SDSU, Fresno and UNLV.

[@Joe-m2d]

It all depends on Stanford & California. They are coming to the understanding that they need more connection to west.

[@jeh58]

I have a few thing. Steve is right on Canzano. I have been a fan of his for years and he grew up as a young man in California as a PAC fan. He move to Oregon quite some time ago. He has been harsh on PAC teams when he though they deserve to be called out but has always wanted the best for the conference.

[@trav8412]

20 year mil guy here too. Id like them both to just join the MWC. It makes sense.

[@jeh58]

They would lose the PAC12 assets then.

[@Awalker5000]

@@jeh58 There is a couple of scenarios that I am seeing for WSU and Ore. St. 1) A outright merger with the Mountain West. (losing of PAC12 assets), 2) A 'reverse' merger with the Mountain West (The Mountain West needs to vote to disband to join up with WSU and Ore. St.), 3) The Big12, if they can hold out for a few years, is the best bet for getting into a major conference.

[@jeh58]

@@Awalker5000 You forgot another, MWC merges with the PAC12 under some sort of PAC banner & everyone keeps all of the assets.

[@Awalker5000]

@@jeh58 Yeah, its one scenario I am seeing, but there is a rumor, can't seem to find if its real or fake, about the 'PAC12 assets' if the Mountain West 'merges' into the PAC without a former vote of MWC disbandment that the PAC12 assets somehow disappears or along those lines. But like you said, its a scenario. This entire situation is making my head spin ever since the PAC12 implosion.

[@jeh58]

@@Awalker5000 IAW the lawsuit agreement if the PAC2 doesn't remain a conference (rebuild, merger, whatever) after two years the assets will be split in twelve ways to the original twelve members. Assets include such items as the MBB units, Rose Bowl payment, PAC12 media equipment & properties and other miscellaneous items. They would keep the 65 million dollars from the departing ten members I believe.

[@letitroll610]

Gloria seems to be pretty smart as well, a really new and creative conference with this partnership idea(s) he is talking about could be interesting and may open up some exciting possibilities, the dissolution could still happen, if they want to cherry pick 9 or 10 (hawaii and new mexico become the new WSU, OSU)

[@jeh58]

I would guess what ever kind of merger of dissolution happens the MWC schools would push (strong arm) the PAC2 teams to make Gloria Nevarez the conference commissioner.

[@johnhawkes4048]

Good show fellas

[@BudFuddlacker]

You have pro mics, so why does the audio sound so terrible? It sounds like they aren’t even plugged in

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

It sounds like we record in the basement because we record in the basement.

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

You’re the person that complains about it.

[@BudFuddlacker]

@@TheBigMountainPodcast I work in A/V and this audio is shit considering your setup

[@scottyclayton2501]

I don’t think it will happen but I really do want them to build a top tier G5 conference with MW and AAC teams to try and lock up the G5 CFP bid for the conference, if they can do that they basically become P5 playoff wise which could lead to becoming P5 financial wise

[@lonnyrowden2630]

I really think Wazzu and the Beavs have tried everything they can to get into a power conference and also cherry pick a new one, but I agree with you guys that it will fail. I don’t think they want to give back money so I assume they’ll merge the MWC into the Pac-12. The new teams will probably want something, but that’s the higher money route.

[@kevinhampton6986]

I'm not convinced that Tony Altimore's numbers as far as the $255 million "war chest" make sense, especially the $140 million cost. And we now know that the $50 million Pac-12 Networks expense is going to be far less so basically we're talking more in the $190 million range. What I think Altimore overlooks are the set revenues. In OSU's case, the expected revenues (numbers according to the Oregonian) are $10,489,500 for ticket sales, $27,333,707 for Pac-12/NCAA payments (includes CFP, NCAA mbb tournament and Pac-12 settlement). $13,762,965 for miscellaneous (concessions, camps, etc.), $11,525,000 from the OBN annual fund and $17,915,125 in institutional support. Not to mention $7,650,000 from the lottery, up from $530,000 to help lessen the impact of losing the Pac-12 media deal money. So OSU will get that $7,650,000 plus the new media deal money now and can fill in with some of the war chest money if necessary. The war chest money will be there for several years. It's not going to be gone in a year or two due to operating expenses.

[@jeh58]

I agree, I believe this was in an article on Oregonlive a month or two ago.

[@DocSkirv]

This was a really good episode! I would need to count myself as going through the stages of grief with the PAC12 for certain. A couple counter-opinions if I may~• I think Stanford + Cal are fine with OSU/Wazzu in a conference. They were together for 108 years previously. This seems to hold true in sentiment for SDSU + SMU, as both were a whisper away from being the replacements for USC/UCLA. Doesn't mean Stan/Cal would return to a P12, but it doesn't rule it out either. Your point is valid though, Cal + Stanford have a strong opinion of themselves. I think the MWC + P12 merger with an athletic department floor is brilliant. It would truly build the premier west coast conference, with big time potential to move up in prominence with a B12 or ACC in terms of strength. I know this is a stretch, but its also not impossible. Those conferences will soon be bled of their top schools...and at that point, its a power 2 with SEC/B10. Already is, but if enough schools leave? Its an opening for the new P12.

[@jeh58]

No, California, Washington, UCLA, Southern California, and Stanford dissolved the conference in 1959 and created the AAWU conference, leaving Oregon, OSU, WSU, Idaho & Montana behind. They renamed the conference the PAC8, finally inviting just Oregon, OSU & WSU back in 1971. Calford has never been a fan of having OSU & WSU in their conference.

[@DocSkirv]

@@jeh58 disagree. Even if they split out on their own, the bulk of their history is tied to the cougars and beavers athletically.

[@jeh58]

@@DocSkirv To each their own, Calford have always been elitists and are a large part of the dysfunction of the PAC12 & its decline. They have ever shown any kind of brotherly kin ship to anyone they believed to be there lesser, and loathe to associate with them.

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

Thx for your feedback and comment!

[@atgdcommish608]

I think the Pac should rebuild, starting with a 16-team league west of the Mississippi (or right on it): Oregon State, Washington State, Fresno State, Boise State, Tulane, Memphis, San Diego State and UNLV (8 teams for phase 1 in 2026). Air Force, UTSA, North Texas, Rice, Colorado State, New Mexico State, Louisiana and San Jose State next (16 teams for 2027, with several recent 10-game winners and several large TV markets like Dallas/Houston/Denver/SF Bay Area). Then go national with a 20-team league by adding Liberty, James Madison, Appalachian State, and Coastal Carolina (or USF for one of those) in 2028. Split into 10 Eastern and 10 Western team divisions for travel purposes. This would be the top G5 conference by a mile, and would make 2 to 3x what G5 conferences do now in yearly TV, plus get the G5 football playoff spot most years, plus be good at basketball (with more tournament cash flowing in.)

[@letitroll610]

Talk is cheap, they are just posturing and acting strong. If they get an invite to the ACC , they are 100% jumping. They will travel, and put up with the negatives to be back in a power conference with 30+ mil a year vs. 8. The west coast does need a premier conference and I hope it happens, but that is a lot of work and a lot of ego's in the way, easy to jump like everybody else did if you get the chance, No matter what they say now.

[@HMbeav8404]

It also wouldn’t work because of Calford’s snobbier than all perspective. Won’t ever accept a rebuilt pac that includes most mwc schools. So if the acc starts to fracture theyd give in and tell the acc to start a western wing. Maybe sdsu and csu too.

[@leonardlithen6787]

The Beavs and Cougs have been relegated. Acceptance is the toughest step in grieving.

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

Unfortunately, that’s a bingo.

[@jeh58]

Some have & some haven't

[@Spitfirethedragon]

Cincinnati, TCU and Houston got relegated from a power conference, but they got back in. Only UConn, USF, Rice and Tulane who were in a power conference are left, and those three are more attractive to the ACC than Oregon State and Washington State.

[@jeh58]

@@Spitfirethedragon I somewhat agree with Tulane & Memphis. Possibly USF if both FSU & Miami leave.

[@Awalker5000]

Pretty much that's what happened to the both of them. The Problem for WSU and Ore. St. is that they never had a Plan B. the other schools were working on back-up plans when the PAC12 was tinkering and eventually imploded.

[@scottyclayton2501]

OSU and WSU got screwed. I obviously don’t know the full details as a random kid but it seems like the 4 corners schools were talking with the Big 12 for months and it seems like OSU/WSU thought that everything would be fine. I don’t know if they would have changed anything because maybe the Big 12 never wanted them but I don’t know

[@atgdcommish608]

ESPN and Fox called all the shots. ESPN was dealing under the table, offering the Big12 a 30M per year bounty for every (approved) Pac12 team they poached. And the Big10 presidents wanted Stanford and Cal, with first-rate academics and top-tier athletics programs, but Fox Sports said no, not even at a reduced share.

[@lonnyrowden2630]

Thanks for the show. It sounds like Schulz is looking at things more realistically. Time is money? When are you going to start paying me to listen? I think Canzano has a setting on my washing machine! Stanford and Cal said they don’t want to be in a conference with Boise and Fresno. The show must be getting bigger. You’re trying to keep it cleaner!

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

Lol. We pay in entertainment bitcoin. We can get frisky every now and again, as you know. Doing it all the time loses its luster.

[@jeh58]

Being too hard on Canzano, he is still a PAC fan & has been one since he was a kid. No different than you & I. He has numerous awards for his articles, and decorated writer. He tries to be fair but sometimes lets the fans take over.

[@t-fuelernienotoriousmisfit7449]

The PAC WEST. Washington State, Oregon state, San Diego state, Fresno state, UNLV, Boise state,Tulane, Memphis, North Texas. 👍🍻😉The best of the rest but don't see it happening

[@SurfCityBill]

The Pac and the whole MW will merge. The lawyers will word the agreement so OSU/WSU do not lose their Pac money. The new "Pacific West Conf" will be a solid G6 conference, and they'll get a better G6 TV deal. Unfortunately, for OSU/WSU, their recruiting will drop from P5 talent to G6 talent.

[@chsmithins]

For sure recruiting will fall off. I think recruiting will also fall off for the Big12 & ACC (once the big brands get poached) as the Power 2 will rule with the biggest money for NIL.

[@mathewblood5113]

Recruiting actually hasn’t changed for WSU. I don’t know about OSU. Also, despite realignment, WSU only lost a few players but nearly the entire football team was retained. WSU athletes have heart I’ll give them that! They’ll fight to the bitter end.

[@chsmithins]

@@mathewblood5113 Yeah, you are exactly right. So far Dickert and co (& players) have done an exceptional job at retention. WSU has always primarily been a 3-star recruiter with the occasional 4. If WSU ends up in the MWC that may not drop much other than attracting the occasional 4-star. Longterm there may be more 2s and lower. Recruiting to Pullman has always been rough even back in the Pac12 days and with Leach the recruiting class ranks were usually in the mid 40s range at best.

[@integritymatters5114]

The electing to join, evades the poaching clause in the scheduling agreement.

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

Explain that….

[@integritymatters5114]

@@TheBigMountainPodcast The model will clearly be teams asking to join, and no P2 asking them. So Clearly not poaching since no reaching out and recruiting teams. It is by definition not hunting/targeting MW teams so not poaching. But we all know individual teams can chose to leave and then apply to P2. In that case they would have their exit fee but the poaching fee is moot by definition. Unless it is otherwise defined in the agreement which I have not seen, but I assume they used common vernacular and therefore a dictionary definition which creates an argument in court restricting application of the clause to a single direction of action which is P2 pursuing and not MW vacating and then requesting to join the P. It may also be moot on anti trust grounds since it only applies to the P and other leagues are not likewise sanctioned, though this is a less convincing argument. Because even though P paid for the games, it can be argued not poaching was a form of rename ration to the MW for allowing P2 to play your conference teams. Which is weak because the teams can schedule OOC without MW input.

[@mikek3979]

Pretty significant negative impact on the non-football programs of the PAC-2 in the current limbo status. One example is rapid decline of OSU’s national powerhouse WB team - virtual all of the starters and rest of the team have transfered out recently.

[@rockerfarm6445]

well, I am done supporting CFB except for games of my cougs, guess I'll go the Leach way fromm now on

[@Awalker5000]

I have several thoughts, Canzano has always been a PAC12 supporter and he has been called out several times by others for his predictions mostly over the BIG12. The PAC2 needs to save every penny for their athletic budgets, like watch what is going on with the Uni. of Arizona. ($50 mil. + deficit.).. For the time being, its going to be merger of PAC2 and Mountain West. Honestly, I don't see the ACC or the 'new' ACC after the potential implosion having WSU and Ore. St. joining up. They want eastern coast teams joining up and guessing Stanford and Cal. will be booted from the conference. So with Stanford and Cal. being booted, then I am seeing the BIG12 interested in expanding with Stanford w/ Cal.. I see possibly Washington St. with Oregon St. joining up with the BIG12 when the TV Contracts come up in a few years. The BIG12 didn't have the money at the time to expand with more than 4 teams.

[@jeh58]

I agree with some of this, but the B12 doesn't want Calford & their influence. I don't think Calford would lower themselves to associate with the B12 schools. They believe they deserve better than that. That goes for the likes of the MWC, OSU, & WSU.

[@jeh58]

For JY, don't forget that some of the teams destroyed the WAC by leaving just like ACC destroyed the Big East. All schools are loyal to their conference as long as it suits their needs. I imagine soon most of my fellow Beaver fans & WSU fans will come to realize they will need to work things out with the MWC in the long term.

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

Solid and well stated point.

[@jeh58]

Meant to say teams of the MWC conference leaving the WAC destroyed the WAC.

[@chsmithins]

I also feel sorry for the little businesses in Pullman and Corvallis amid the depression that will hit those towns. The drastically decreased athletic revenues and lack of big name competition coming in to town will have a very noticeable effect on attendance.

[@jeh58]

@@chsmithins It won't affect my support as a Beaver fan. I hope the MWC teams travel well, that would help. BSU always travels to Corvallis well.

[@chsmithins]

@@jeh58 I’m thinking more from the WSU side of the ledger. It’s a 5-6 hour trip from north or south of Seattle area over to the Palouse. Nevada just won’t bring-m-in like a USC used to. Being along or near i5 really helps. I’ve wondered in the past if things would be different if WSU Vancouver had been the main campus rather than Pullman. Portland, right across the river, has no major colleges and given the same 100 years of history could’ve posed a bigger competition to UW than where Pullman had to compete from.

[@HMbeav8404]

I also think we’re distancing ourselves from Schulz and Wazzu, as sad as that may sound. Could it be an sdsu and beav to the acc scenario. Wazzu’s admin would probably accept that they can’t afford it anyway. Not sure the tec’s could but I think they’d try. Maybe Utah has a last minute change of heart? Idk (yes I’m coping) 😭

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

Perfect way to put it - Distancing themselves.

[@mikefredd3390]

What is Oregon State win loss record this century vs Norte Dame?

[@atgdcommish608]

Oregon State is 2-1 against Notre Dame all-time, with all 3 games played this century (2023 Sun Bowl, 2004 Insight Bowl, and 2001 Fiesta Bowl).

[@HMbeav8404]

It’s ok to admit your inherit biases to get the pac 2 into the mwc. I’m biased to get into the big 12. Both are probably not happening.

[@HMbeav8404]

Don’t get me wrong I respect your opinions and love the content.

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

Admitted!

[@HMbeav8404]

@@TheBigMountainPodcast respect 🤝

[@frednichols7996]

Another thing they could do with this new pack thing is add Washington State and Oregon State to the West Coast conference and called the all coast conference

[@deanfirnatine7814]

Here is what is going to happen the Pac 12 and MWC will merge BUT to merge you will need to agree to something like a $60 million athletic budget within maybe 3 years, if not your out. If Hawaii can make the $ cut then they will invite Gonzaga to be in the conference since Hawaii will only be in football. After several years of basically always getting the non power 4 bid in the playoffs it will be back to being considered a power 5 although in reality it will be Power 2 plus 3. I do not think the SEC or Big Ten want FSU or Clemson, I know Texas and South Carolina plan to try to block anymore expansion of the SEC and the Big Ten only cares about Notre Dame, that means the ACC is not going anywhere.

[@davidjorgensen8635]

Fellas, you know I am a Husker fan first, B1G second. My anti SEC feelings takes most of my thoughts of B1G overtaking the SEC. I want the B1G to get to 24 (FSU/A&M/ND/UNC/GT/Clem/Utah/AZ) schools. Setup an NFL style system (AFC/NFC) with 12 teams each, 3 subdivisions of 4 schools each. Would be one heck of a B1G Championship playoff. I know, I know, but they keep saying the NCAA is about to fold so B1G can set their own rules. I feel this is something the SEC can't do as successfully due to them being a regional conference and not a national one like the B1G.

[@TheBigMountainPodcast]

Honestly something like this will probably be the end game scenario. We just think it will be a little farther down the road.

[@jeh58]

The B1G & SEC can go & eff themselves. They don't care about the other conferences and would only leave crumbs if they could.

[@Joe-m2d]

Although Stanford & California do not want to join mountain west conference I believe they want more connection to west coast. Ideally the B1G Ten is there first choice to rejoin USC, UCLA, Washington & Oregon. Second choice is creating a west coast division of ACC which probably includes Oregon State and Washington St. retaining ties with research schools on east coast and adding academic schools such as Rice and Tulane. Third choice is rebuilding PAC conference with Oregon St., Washington St., San Diego St., Colorado St., Tulane, Rice, SMU and at least one other school. In order to not pay for these schools PAC would need to create alliances with Mountain West, AAC, and ACC. Teams joining PAC would need to pay some funds to confront are leaving. This can be done as part of a greater agreement regarding division football and other sports.

[@jeh58]

@@Joe-m2d Believe what you want but Cal & especially Stanford would rather go independent than be in a conference with the schools from the MWC. The ACC teams will not join, the difference in media dollars isn't enough for the draw.

[@RobertDetert]

How about just fold up and go find another conference for sports.

[@jaychapman125]

Beavers need to pay off their football stadium and Cougars need to pay off their debt, first and foremost... that's what I understand.

[@jeh58]

The Beaver stadium renovations are covered already (prior planning), but WSU's isn't.

[@sjbjohn]

PAC-12 (wishful thinking) NORTH Oregon State Washington State Boise State SOUTH San Diego State Fresno State University of Nevada Las Vegas EAST Colorado State Utah State Wyoming MILITARY Air Force Navy Army

[@jeh58]

Nice but not going to happen.

[@scottyclayton2501]

I think a reverse merger would make the new PAC go on a campaign to be considered a power conference like what the AAC did after the Big East died and most of those teams got demoted. I think OSU/WSU would take an ACC invite because a rebuilt ACC won’t be super stable but it will be Big 12 level stable. If the lawsuits blow up the GOR they can negotiate a new TV deal

[@jeh58]

I think most Beavs & WSU fan do know that they are G5 now unless the ACC/B12 come calling. Chances are slim & none.

[@scottyclayton2501]

@@jeh58 Yeah a P6 type campaign the AAC went on would likely be as successful as the AAC’s P6 campaign lol but as a Boise State fan I would love it

[@chrislucier1423]

Clown-zano costs money…a broken clock is correct twice a day and that guy constantly makes stuff up out of desperation.

[@davidfloyd9134]

Pac is done

[@connorjensen6383]

Kirk is a joke and needs to be fired for financially running his school into the ground.

[@jaychapman125]

😆😂🤣

[@jeh58]

I disagree, I think he has done the best he could considering the hane he was delt.

[@Awalker5000]

From what I was told, Schultz was 'forced' to retire. The WSU faculty senate was on the verge of having a no confidence vote on him (he got one when he was the President at Uni. of Kansas), and several professors basically threw down the gauntlet on the board of regents basically saying if Schultz didn't leave, majority of the faculty would quit. From other sources, he was so consumed about the athletic department, he forgot about the rest of the school. Several colleges are on the verge of closing and merging over low enrollment numbers.

[@jeh58]

@@Awalker5000 Jaust about of of the college football talking head/media complement him on the job he has done though out this realignment crisis. Even John Kurtz, who slammed him for his performance at K-State has gave him big props for the work he has done for WSU & the PAC2. If you were WSU, why would you force him out considering the position WSU is in. A conference that has no home in 2 years, a budget that has to be cut, being relegated. This is no fault of his that WSU is in Pulman Washington, with limited resources. Who would want to take over that job?

[@Awalker5000]

@@jeh58 I agree, but from my point of view, a few things, 1) He kept 'shooting his mouth off' about how the PAC 12 media deal was going to be at par or maybe even better than the BIG12 deal. 2) He never had a back-up plan for WSU (the other schools were working on back up deals with other conferences) when the media deal fell thru he was basically caught with his pants down. 3) At the same time, the Board of Regents were asking him his plans for bringing up the enrollment numbers. Which he didn't have one after the pandemic, the numbers are still pretty low. But yeah, to me he did a so-so job, but like you said, who wants to be President now of a school in the middle of nowhere, no huge population base, but in the middle of wheat fields in Southeast Washington State. He got 'punched in gut' by his hand picked AD that left WSU for greener pastures at Uni. of Washington heading into the B1G Conference where money will be flowing in a couple of years. And no prominent athletic conference membership. I am pretty sure after he was asking some other ADs nationally if they want to come to WSU. They basically told him, 'Why would I come to your train wreck of a school?", WSU basically promoted their associate AD to Athletic Director and she got one HUGE problem she has to deal with, a Conference Home. Oregon State might be a little better off (I didn't know they have a bigger student body than Uni. of Oregon), BUT they have a HUGE debt after their stadium remodel which they were relying on the new PAC12 media deal to which never came to fruition. But honestly, Reser Stadium is damn looking good!!

[@sethholland8290]

Stanford could wind up going to the B1G, finally. Not sure exactly what Notre Dame's plans are, other than remaining independent for long as possible!! I know Big Ten fans don't like to hear this, but being independent is to Notre Dame what conference membership is to any other FBS institution.

[@okolo22000]

It’s not over quite yet! (For the Pac.) There’s an outside chance that California & Stanford could come back easily once Florida State & Clemson leave the ACC. Arizona, Arizona State, Utah & another Big 12 school could all be brought in to “rebuild” the PAC to be as good if not better than at least the Big 12 as it is now. Is it possible to negotiate with ESPN and make a TV deal for those schools above and possibly 2-3 Mountain West schools + add UTSA to make a 12 team conference and have a TV deal done better than the ACC deal in 2025 so this can all happen by 2026.

[@jeh58]

I doubt Calford would lower them selves to be in the conference with the MWC teams. They don't care much for OSU & WSU either.

[@okolo22000]

@@jeh58 True; other people have already mentioned both of them not wanting to “lower” themselves to playing Mountain West teams. Tell me that once other teams after FSU and Clemson leave the ACC; will the remaining leftover teams that don’t get taken by the other 3 conferences along with the inevitable Eastern G5 additions that are on Mountain West level taking their place be any better? The only difference by then is that the Mountain West teams would be far easier to travel for their other sports programs instead of going all the way to Atlanta, Blacksburg & Winston Salem every 2 years. By the way, the Big 12 weren’t interested in California or Stanford either so they’re not that much better than Oregon State and Washington State plus Florida State openly said that they wanted Oregon State over either of them already.

[@SurfCityBill]

Looks like someone is still in the denial stage.

[@jeh58]

@@okolo22000 Agreed. plus Bob Thompson (former Fox Sports television executive) has said that OSU & WSU media value is about 9-12 million each. Probably about the most the ACC would offer them if they chose to, not likely. Nine million is about what Stanford & CAL are getting. With all of that travel they will end up losing money. Teheir non money making sports will eat that money up in travel & lodging.

[@okolo22000]

@@SurfCityBill Denial? What are you talking about? I will admit that both Oregon State and Washington State are in deep trouble after 2025 plus the chances of what I said actually succeeding is highly unlikely. My concern is more with California and Stanford settling for that $9+ Million they’re both getting from the ACC. As @jeh58 said: all their non-profitable sports and other programs are going to eat all that money alive.

[@KaelanF]

Wsu has a far more successful athletic program compared to the beavers. We don't want a mountain west merger

[@michaelwall3393]

Canzano and Wilner have been wrong on almost everything regarding the PAC and continuing to be ignorant and dishonest and dumb about all of this. Also full merger or full reverse merger does not mean they are the best Non-Autonomy Conference. The AAC has been the best by far over the last 12 years, which includes all of the NY6-CFP4:Era. Now the last two years in regular season play the SBC has become the best G5 but post season still belongs to the AAC. This year will be telling just how much better each G5 conference and the two-team G5.5 PAC are. Liberty is a lot like Boise State in the WAC and the past twelve years in MWC but with superior academic credentials and performance by being vastly better than most conference opponents but conference as a whole is not very good. That is the truth. MWC and democrat dipwads of Oregon State and Washington State may disagree but results and numbers and records don’t lie. BYU never made a BCS or NY6 bowl but they were more successful and valuable than any Mountain Worst team or WazzU and OzzU and other schools across the country and added to the Big12. Now I would have chosen Memphis and Boise State and San Diego State to go with the other 3 schools from AAC; as BYU would still be available for adding to the Big12 after getting the 4-Corner schools. But that is just me. The MWC is not dissolving and with the new television deal, pretty much guaranteed no poaching; though the PAC 2 don’t have the money.

[@atgdcommish608]

They were the voice of reason on the Pac12 last year. They just underestimated the mendacity of the TV networks and the incompetence of the Pac12 leadership. The value was there all along, and greater than the Big12 value.

[@teeduck]

OSU needs to stay Independent. Still better than G5 relegation. G5 is death. What is even the point of fielding a team? They can easily get more than the $6 million/ yr payout if the Mtn west. It’s a joke really.

[@jeh58]

I already explained to you why this won't work. They can afford it.

[@teeduck]

@@jeh58 sure they can. What does $6 mil: yr from Mtn west do? That chump change. That’s one boosters donation.

[@jeh58]

@@teeduck The Beavs don't have a Uncle Phil. Most FBS school are in East of the MWC & would incur a lot of cost. It would use up the media deal especially for the non revenue sports. BYU had the LDS nation behind them when they did it. ND is ND, & the other schools are in New England where there are a bunch of close FBS school with in a bus ride away.

[@teeduck]

@@jeh58 join the Mtn west and expect massive cuts to all sports over the next few years. And in 5 years you become Colorado St. at that point is there even a benefit to support sports? Drop to FCS and join the big sky and play for fun. No schollies.

[@jeh58]

@@teeduck Going independent the money would run out in a couple of yours without a conference, which is shy UMASS, UCONN & Army is joining conferences. BTW, if you reall knew how college football works you would know FBS level school have 85 scollies, FCS has 65 scollies.