The Game Within The Game: How To Multiply Your Dog’s Reinforcements

To the uninitiated, reinforcement based dog training looks as if you have to walk around with a boatload of cookies or else you are not going to get your dog to do what you want. That’s just not true. But if you are carrying cookies everywhere, I’m covering how we go about reinforcement based training differently so that you can transfer the value of those cookies to you with games within games.
In the episode you'll hear:
• What I learned about games in a summer job on a dairy farm.
• The definition of primary and secondary reinforcers.
• An example of a game-within-a-game to teach a dog to easily line up at your side.
• The steps to using a hand target for your dog to line up to your side.
• What the Karate Kid has to do with dog training.
• How the transfer of value works with games within games.
• About a game I played at Chicken Camp with Bob and Marian Bailey.
• How the transfer of value from games creates connection, focus and drive.
• All the reasons my dogs sit at doors, and it’s not about being a control freak.
• That all of life is a game-within-a-game creating a deep connection with our dogs.
Resources:
1. KZbin Playlist: Susan Garrett's Dog Training Philosophy and Training - • Susan Garrett's Dog Tr...
2. Processes Podcast Episode 68: 3 Easy Tricks Every Dog Should Know - • 3 Easy Tricks Every Do...
3. Podcast Episode 5: What is Shaping And How Can Dogs Shape Us - • What is Shaping And Ho...
4. Podcast Episode 147: Teach Your Dog To Listen Off Leash And Far Away - • Teach Your Dog To List...
5. Podcast Episode 172: How To Teach Your Dog Anything With My Training Plan - • How To Teach Your Dog ...
6. Crate Games Online - dogsthat.com/y/crategames
Timestamps:
00:00 It's not about a boatload of cookies
00:39 What I learned about games on a dairy farm
02:21 Primary and secondary reinforcers
03:18 The magic inside a “game within a game”
03:36 Using hand targets to train a dog to sit at your side
05:40 What the Karate Kid has to do with games within games
08:52 Game within a game for distance work at camp
10:35 About a game I played at Chicken Camp with Bob and Marian Bailey
12:54 How the transfer of value from games creates connection, focus and drive
13:35 Use everyday life to build behaviors and transfer value
15:32 Everything can be a game within a game for dogs
P.S. Subscribe to our KZbin Channel so you get notifications of new videos!
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Dogs That is brought to you by Susan Garrett and the Say Yes Dog Training Team.
Susan Garrett’s interest in animal behaviour started at the University of Guelph where she earned a Bachelor of Science majoring in Animal Science. Since then she has developed into a preeminent dog trainer and canine sports instructor and competitor. Susan is one of the most successful agility competitors of the last three decades. She has won multiple Gold Medals at National or World Championship events with every dog she has ever owned over the past 30 years.
A natural teacher and an entertaining speaker, Susan is world renowned as a leading educator of dog trainers. Her understanding of how to apply science-based learning principles to both competitive and family pet dog training has been pivotal in changing how dogs are trained.
Susan is now helping many thousands of dog owners in 132 countries have the best relationship possible with their dogs. The real joy for her comes from bringing confidence to dogs and their owner through playful interactions and relationship building games that are grounded firmly in the science of how animals learn.
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Our Website: dogsthat.com
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Twitter: / susangarrett
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[@DogsThat]

Discover how we train dogs differently - kzbin.info/aero/PLphRRSxcMHy2An5_3KqDPqFVV6J6dYsYx

[@DaniRyll]

I've got a 16 month old Border Collie. I discovered positive reinforcement training when I got him. Everyone i know believes in punishment but I luckily found a positive trainer to work with. However I often get discouraged with new challenges. I'm glad I found your channel as it is filling in the missing links and helping me understand what is going wrong and right! PS I absolutely love and adore him and want him to be the best he can be!

[@ariley7539]

So “the thing within the thing” sometimes benefits us too. I taught my dog to wait at the door like yours because I thought it was cool and good manners. Our door opens into the house, so I also taught her to back out of the way. Last week I had hip surgery which requires me to use a walker. All the previous door work also taught her to wait for the walker (A device I currently have to use to ambulate), Not to “barrel” through the door ,and to back out of the way. It was definitely the thing within the thing”. Her education allowed us to reconnect safely after the surgery. Thank you soooo much.

[@ammi_10]

You're the "Mary Poppins" of dog training! 😆❤️

[@PamelaDalmatian]

Haha she really is ❤

[@Mbessofficial]

This! Love Susan.

[@silverleaf79]

I've been working on River's release word for boundaries - crate, bed, door, etc. I think it's making a big difference both to his desire to perform the behaviour (staying in position) but also the amount of time he's willing to wait there. Previously I've been paying for being on the bed or crate or whatever, both for getting on and also randomly just for being there, but focusing on the release has been the big game changer for us. He used to ping pong a lot and I'd recue him to get back on. But now if he comes off by himself I do nothing. If I cue him and he comes off, he gets a treat. He very quickly realised that it's worth waiting for my release, and if he does forget and come off he usually gets back on without any nagging from me. It felt so counterintuitive at first - you can create value for staying on the bed by rewarding them for coming off - but it absolutely makes sense. What's interesting is that he's already transferring this to other duration behaviours. We did stays with distractions in class this week and honestly we haven't worked on stay for ages and I don't think we're terribly good at it, but I was able to put him in a sit and literally run side to side 10ft away from him and jump up and down and he never moved, while the other dogs broke if the handler took a few steps. Okay, some of that is from practicing agility start line wait (although I walk when I'm leading out, not run), but a lot of it is also because he's getting more value for the release. He's essentially working for that cue, and he knows he can make that happen by continuing the behaviour until I tell him it's done. I love the idea of using a hand target to get him in position at my side, and I'll be working on that this week I think. I've tried it before but I was missing the step of throwing the treat behind me. The "reset cookie" to get him in position to approach the correct way is going to make a huge difference I think. Thank you Susan!

[@nanettelai1525]

[@kathyhaas5440]

Thankful beyond words for your channel and the wealth of information you have. You’ve given me so much help with my 8 yo border collie mix rescue, Lily. Have had her 4 years and tried EVERYTHING. My husband sees the difference between when we got her and now, and says it’s huge, but I see the obstacles we are still facing in our communication. Please keep up doing your shows-priceless to us! Many thanks!!

[@Chasenhaws]

I would really, REALLY love to see some more videos that focus on specific games that you play with your dogs, including what behaviors those games instill in your dogs, and specific ways to build on those games to create even more desired behaviors on down the road. For example, my dude, Chase, and I routinely play ItsYerChoice. What are some fun ways to build on that for the more experienced dogs? Also, could you talk more about how to best go about transitioning from luring-style training to shaping? Some step-by-step videos on how you go about shaping your dogs to learn more intermediate and advanced level cues and tricks would just make my day! I've learned so much from your podcast and free online training programs. I'm just having trouble implementing that knowledge, past the basics, into my own daily training. Thanks so much for everything you do! I hope to hear back from you.

[@Kitchguy]

I love your method of madness it's so natural and makes so much sense. Now I just have to try it. I'm going to start with the waiting at the door to go out .

[@barthjanice4716]

Susan you are the Rock Star of Dog Training!!! Such good stuff all the time!!!

[@007brasso700]

at the moment I'm struggling a bit with my Boxers....I've to start again with recalers. Your podcast gave me a kick in my butt....

[@elizabethbalcomb6048]

Thanks for this, pointing out the door as a reinforcer is a game changer for me! Makes me wonder why I haven't realised it for myself!

[@lesacline6693]

Susan you are heaven sent such an inspiration ❤ all your videos I have watched so far have been life changing for my dog and I. My dog Luna and I have been training and have long way to go. Wish I would've found your videos sooner but I now that I have for the first time I feel confidently say there is hope . We are gonna work this out and our connection has definitely been creating a bond that I was hoping for. We have a great time with training and keeping fun . I want to say I feel you are the best of the best and seem like such a wonderful soul and your wisdom and grace are genius thank you thank you with all my heart THANK YOU YOU ROCK , Lesa and Luna

[@suzanadesousa3317]

Thank you Susan & her Shaped by Dog crew! I think so much about my future dog and what a great relationship we will have thanks to your teachings.

[@jonmoniz8593]

I am so excited for these games within the game it is truly making a bond between my dog and I. Thank you Susan

[@DogsThat]

Thank you @jonmoniz8593 we're happy you are here!

[@bonniebush5612]

I LOVE the way that you train 💚 Still trying to connect all of the layers, but your examples are super helpful.. After binge watching since yesterday I have started working with my 15 week old medium Standard Poodle differently and his progress is astounding. A few jumping and teeth issues had started to show up, but with the change in method, these have disappeared. We are both less frustrated, he seems even more joyful, and confident. Wish I had taken a video to share of his tail-wagging calm, confidence as he appropriately greeted people from the shopping cart during his Home Depot socialization/shopping trip with me today! Thank you! Looking forward to Doggy Flix!

[@angiebennett2958]

Really working on this for having fun and transferring value on our walks

[@PamelaDalmatian]

Only ~150 of your podcast left to watch. And my alarm is set for 8am to start DoggyFlix tomorrow! So excited.

[@PamelaDalmatian]

I think I’ve listened to them all now! 😮

[@loisronis1320]

Bing bing bing lightbulbs going off!

[@HelenFong8]

Wow! Phenomenal podcast! I'm member of Recallers, and, this helps reinforce the importance of focusing on the fundamentals, and, understand all the layers....

[@garlicbread9248]

I still find it difficult to find the game within the game. I'd love some more videos or resources! I am doing dog dance with my dog. Would love to shape more behaviours and tricks!

[@rogenastyles9625]

Great. We do touch but I’m yet to get my dog into the correct position. It really depends if she is in the mood. So I will be doing this, thank you.

[@allisontraynor2870]

Another awesome podcast. I realise I have been doing that. I have incorporated Moving RZ and hand touches into our heeling work at obedience classes to stop my dog sniffing and following smells

[@Shake_your_tambourine]

Thank you for this, I'm trying to wrap my brain around it. I think my dog is getting it faster than I!

[@wendylevine6076]

I remember that you mentioned the chicken training once before. I love the way you build behaviors this way.

[@susanmariesilburn9513]

I’m so excited to now be a part of your group! You make so much sense with what will be easy training & communication with my dog. Thank you! Thank you!

[@emilyspalding2982]

Love the podcast! Can I request a case study/deep dive into building clarity for our pup? It's something you discuss often, but I'm drawing a blank on what that actually looks like since I'm new to dog training. Mind spelling it out for me? Thank you for all you do! ❤️

[@bonniebargeron4637]

I'm looking forward to learning how to train my dog from you. You have a knack for explaining concepts in a way that is easy for me to understand. Plus, being able to see them in action on the video helps my understanding. The transfer of value is exactly what my dog needs to learn. He will sit at the door but does not always wait for a release word. Any suggestions for a good release word? Can I use one word to release him from any command to sit or stay?

[@bash3681]

Yet another fantastic video! I wanna same game within a game is like weight loss. You play the games you get results, you workout and eat healthy u lose weight. But most of us are too lazy to just watch and wish we could the results. Lol

[@yourpaljohn7990]

Thank you so much for your videos, thoughtful, educational, and entertaining Already looking forward to the next one ❤

[@haleyheffley2501]

I love this podcast and the tie to the Karate Kid. Everything can, indeed, be a game within a game. Dogs are always learning, so we are always teaching. Why not make that teaching fun? I had someone ask me if I’m “always dog training.” I explained I’m simply always looking for an opportunity to play with my dog. I want to take advantages of challenges that are thrown our way. I try to get curious, think of how I can make a new situation fun, and think of “takeaways” that can come from it.

[@DogsThat]

This is a great approach, Haley! Thank you for sharing 💕

[@hsquier2638]

Hi Susan, As you asked, I leave a comment. A comment for you and for any dogs owners interrested in educating their dog. My wife and I had our first dog last year in april, Ted, a Catalan shepherd. We had no previous dog experience and watched hundreds of youtube video on dog training before his arrival. Partially because of lack of recall but more deeply because of lack of connection between us he died in december hit by a car. With great sadness and great joy we got Yuki, an other Catalan shepherd and read dozens of books and watched thouthands of video. In one word because I talk too much : you are simply the best of all I've seen and read. In my case I have to understand the underlying concept to be able to do things and evolve. I got your "Home School The Dog" You don't teach tricks, you offer an understandable (smart and brilliant) concept of thinking that every one can make their own. Within only three weeks of living together Yuki (10 weeks) happily succeeded all the 7 first games. But the real point : "The game within the game" is that I have never been so close with my late regretted Ted. So thank you Susan, Henri, France

[@DogsThat]

Hi Henri, we're so sorry about what happened to Ted, and are sending you big hugs. We're so happy you've found HSTD helpful and are having fun with it and Yuki! Thanks so much for sharing your story and lovely comment on the training ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

[@patriciahoffmann2362]

I needed this pep talk - I was feeling a little overwhelmed with potty training my 9 week old puppy, who needs far more walks per day than any of my other puppies did - plus working on collar grab, IYC, and needing crate games, but knowing I need to try to do the games in order - and you just reminded me it's all games, and to have fun with the process!

[@DogsThat]

Have fun and celebrate baby steps! ❤️ And congrats on your new puppy 🎉

[@indythedancinghovawart4883]

Loved this episode too! I use this trasfer of value trick in a conscious way at least in two occasions. My dog loves to come in from the garden and tends to rush in, pushing anyone and everyone aside (with dirty paws!). So for a while he can come in after sitting down and performing some trick that we're currently working on (canine freestyle). Same with rushing out of the gate to the street! Not a safe option. He needs to still still, while I go outside and check if the street is clear of dogs, cats or cars. :D He can come only for my release. A very useful game indeed! However, it is funny that whenever another family member is involved and I'm not around, he does break these rules because he knows that they don't play in a consequent manner. He's smart!

[@topdogk9services601]

As a person who has taken the Karen Pryor course Kpa ctp and is paid for staff to do the Karen Pryor courses I wish I had a found this first. I'm really enjoying your podcast and your thought processes thank you

[@DogsThat]

Thanks so much, we love that you're finding the podcast helpful! 💕

[@bethnugent5062]

Thank you Susan

[@saradhiananth1613]

Susan, you are actually doing it on the right in the short video clip, game within the game, for lining up on the side.😁

[@SoraiaLMotta]

awesome as always

[@Emma-fe6yt]

Games are the best way to learn! It's fun for both me and my dog :)

[@traceywatson1081]

Not sure who is learning more, me, or the dog, but it's all good and so exciting!

[@theroseandthebee]

Thank you so much for this episode and this topic! With Recallers games we have been making our way into value transfer games, and I see progress for us in some places, but we still have some things where value has not been transferred to me or other family members yet. You explain it so well in Recallers, but hearing it again and again helps light bulbs go on.

[@fengliu2791]

You are not a dog trainer, you are a magician.

[@user-lp9on2lb6t]

You are just amazing, thank you for spreading your knowledge. ❤

[@DogsThat]

Thank you, Molly 💕

[@cjpatterson4711]

I am like a drill sergeant. I have the repetition down.... but I forget to play and move and laugh. I like using a learned task and using to incorporate in learning a new task.... did I say task I meant GAME..... that word GAME has got me jazzed. I look forward to watching more of your videos.

[@judymorrison1509]

Love the concept

[@Mary-fw6on]

This was awesome! I’m going outside now to play some games within games!

[@nelani2609]

I love this concept!

[@davidlawrence1772]

Fantastic episode, thank you 🎉

[@DogsThat]

Thank you, David! ❤️

[@user-ut5dg7gd9j]

I’m lol I don’t think of myself as a game player . I would say I don’t like games ,I don’t play any kind of game , However , if I switch the word “game “ to “can my dog do this trick 16:51 “ make it more interesting, more complex I love doing g that , so I guess I do play games I just don’t think of them as games . The word for me I realize has a negative meaning not one I think of for dog training learned something new . Listening to this podcast really helped me realize it’s only a word and as long as we are saying the same thing understand each other the word isn’t important it’s the understanding So thank you again 😂❤

[@amberklein1560]

FANTASTIC!

[@kandrisa]

I take a toy and move it around chaotically in front of my dog. He can’t have it until I put it on his nose. He thinks that it’s purely fun but it’s building his self-control and responsiveness to my cues. Incredible stuff. I also use a flirt pool to speed up his sit. Super exciting behaviorial changes.

[@milissaellan6805]

My one standard poodle turned 15 yesterday, and in trying to get cute pictures realized that my 8 month old puppy has not generalized as much as I thought! He had a lot of trouble holding a sit while I kept the pupcakes from getting blown off the table by the wind... 😅 Holding a sit is usually his gold star behavior, but this podcast was perfect timing to help me firm up that weak spot. Thanks, Susan and team!

[@Phantompoodle]

You are absolutely amazing, I love your outlooks and techniques for training. I would love to see how you train certain cues as games. Like having the dog continuously back up long distance until told to stop. I’ve been mulling it over and can’t figure out that one.

[@jessicajarsak7812]

When teaching touch, my husky mix thinks touch means lick. How do I get her to touch without licking? Lol. Helpful podcast.

[@kathiecybulskie4960]

I’d love more information regarding game within the game for start-lines. My nemesis. .

[@DogsThat]

Hi Kathie, thanks for your suggestion. In the meantime, you could review episode #134 about stays: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nX_Rn6KngceHsM0

[@lindaburns2367]

I am new to your channel and am excited to start your way of training. You talk about cookies. Which cookie do you recommend?

[@DogsThat]

Hi Linda, Susan's treats are homemade and you can find some great free recipes in our Tasty Treats eBook here: dogsthat.com/tastytreats/

[@kio1]

I have a dilema too … I have the end result (I’m training my Labrador for dummy working tests), but we lost the “game” (fun) part. So she retrieves marks, memories and blinds, but the speed and drive is missing. What game could I introduce to make the whole feel like a game to her?

[@jenyme4ever]

Omg. I just realized, you're a true Ravenclaw! lol.

[@DogsThat]

You made us giggle Jennifer and we'll see you in Hogwarts 😆

[@speekiespeech]

I love this so much, thank you! I'm actually in a career crisis haha this will help me and my Jojo!

[@speekiespeech]

and this is actually how I was trained to teach English as a second language teacher in graduate school. We teach elements of language within a fun class. E.g., I taught a cyber safety class in English to students from around the world. Some could barely speak, so I had to get creative with it, but they all shut their fingerprint readers on their phones after, so I think I got the game going!

[@lydiamerkle9822]

Wow. I want it

[@brudy1120]

Thank you! This is amazing!, so happy to be part of your group! I'm training a puppy to be a Service Dog and the HandTouch game will be perfect to get him to be by my side!

[@supagav]

Hi Susan, firstly a big thanks from both myself and my 2yr old Parson Russell Marty for all these wonderful podcasts! Together we've been positive reinforcement training since first taking Marty to puppy classes, and later in obedience and beginner agility classes, and whilst its been reassuring to see how much we've been getting right, it's also been a big wake up call to inject lots more fun, better breaks and WAY more value into our play! We just found your channel and love it so far. I'm sorry if I'm being stupid here, but is the game within the game the hand touch (game) which then becomes part of a game of sit? Thereby strengthening the hand touch as it no longer relys on a reward at that moment, as the treat is now received at the end of a longer game (after the sit)? Taking that even further, if we imagine an even larger game stringing together a number of these basic (game) elements, then it ultimately strengthens all these as the dog is working towards the goal of a treat at the end rather than for individual pieces? All the while keeping the larger game acheivable as we're simply linking smaller games they know and love, and if they learnt them well then they should have TONNES of value as they're already known as fun games with valuable rewards? Sorry again for the silly question, I just wanted to make sure I understood correctly! Thank you very much, Gavin

[@DogsThat]

Hi, we're so happy to have you and Marty in our community! Susan explains the Transfer of Value in episode #196, here's the link for you: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l3XIZHqff7eLjMk If you want a "short" intro, here it is: kzbin.infoDWDTwt-SHBs

[@supagav]

@@DogsThat Thank you so much, honestly it's been a genuine light buld moment! I guess it's what I was trying to say but just said much more simply and clearly! For example Marty's loose lead walking is acutally quite good, but it frustratingly took us A LONG TIME to get there. Now by going back and breaking it down into smaller pieces using the game of a super valuable paw target in reinforcement zone, it's genuinely turbo charged his walking. We get a beautiful heel position with MUCH more drive and I haven't even asked for a command! Honestly thank you all so much x

[@shelleyh2967]

Your great

[@crispygrape1825]

How do you know the value has been transferred and you don’t need to reward with food or toys anymore? I worry that if I don’t use it at the end of the game he will not feel like it’s worth it and it will get worse next time

[@watchmoivies123]

I love this but why can’t I skip the first part where the dog goes to my left far away and gets the cookie on the ground or in my hand or whatever you said and just teach the dog to go round far enough in back and come up at my left side and sit? Are you afraid that the sit will be crooked

[@RaptorsGirl]

Yes amoung other things the sit will be crooked. But also by doing a hand target away from your body, but directly behind where we want the dog/puppy to go, we are allowing them to come into your side straight resulting in a straight sit most often. Also we keep the focus on a game they know and can do successfully without thinking...it is just a hand target. When people try to combine the hand target and the sit beside there is a lot more failure, a lot more frustration and you end up souring 2 games rather than transferring value from one high value game to a newer high value game.

[@angelicapasaluko1466]

Ha, how do I make a game within the game for the high reinforcement of chasing deer. Or transfer the value of chasing wildlife for my young, fun but driven little JRT. She knows the hand target pretty good, in a not too distractive environment.

[@chelsealoube4827]

You should definitely check out Recallers! ❤

[@kathyweist9236]

Well, I’m trying to get the concept of a game within a game, but have trouble generalizing it to my dog’s chasing cats behavior. Is this posible? Thanks ❤

[@DogsThat]

Hi Kathy, we have a video to help with things like cat chasing, here's where you can watch - kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGrLiX6CeLBjeck

[@jeaniemccombs2200]

I didn’t understand, what is a game? How do you create new games? Is everything you do a game?

[@DogsThat]

Hi Jeanie, Susan's training is based on games that aren't only fun for both dogs and humans, but ultimately teach dogs something helpful. We have a playlist with games you can play: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fqnHYqaMerajaLs Don't forget to subscribe so you are notified about Susan's upcoming videos! 🐕

[@danielripley4150]

Do you actually feed them cookies?

[@DogsThat]

Hi Daniel, by "cookies" we mean treats for dogs. Susan has a great eBook with recipes you can download: dogsthat.com/tastytreats/