Food Luring VS Shaping In Dog Training: How Science Changed How I Teach Dogs

I use shaping rather than luring with food in my dog training. In the 80s, I was taught to food lure and correct, learned to do it well, and luring brought me a lot of success in obedience and agility. Luring can have benefits, but I decided to change. When I say I don't lure, it always gets a lot of comments and questions on social media, so in this episode, I'm covering the top ten reasons I prefer shaping.
In the episode you'll hear:
• The advantages of luring, how it can be easy to teach people, and its popularity.
• What I heard from my mentors Bob and Marian Bailey about luring.
• How my dog Shelby gave me my first “ah ha” about luring.
• About a class I took at University and what I learned about backwards conditioning.
• A review of Pavlov’s experiment with bells, food, and dogs.
• What happens in dog agility and other sports with luring and dogs who love to chase.
• How luring can turn into bribing the dog, and that dopamine kicks in at choice points.
• What I noticed about motivation and treat bags when I was teaching dog trainers in Japan.
• About pattern training and its relation to luring dogs.
• How the value dogs have for the food can override everything.
• The reason to know what you are reinforcing when your dog sees the cookie.
• That shaping gives us layers to create complex behaviors.
• Why I think shaping can become part of our whole life.
Resources:
1. Podcast Episode 171: Dog Training With Layered Shaping: Why Classical Conditioning Must Come First - • Dog Training With Laye...
2. Podcast Episode 174: Dopamine In Dog Training: Anticipation, Rewards, And The Transfer Of Value - • Dopamine In Dog Traini...
3. Podcast Episode 145: 10 Ways To Teach A Dog To Lay Down And How To Shape It Without Luring - • 10 Ways To Teach A Dog...
4. Podcast Episode 173: Target Training For Dogs: How, Why, And When To Fade Targets - • Target Training For Do...
5. Podcast Episode 172: How To Teach Your Dog Anything With My Training Plan - • How To Teach Your Dog ...
P.S. Subscribe to our KZbin Channel so you get notifications of new videos!
Timestamps:
00:00 Why I Choose Not to Use Luring (Even After Great Success)
01:33 Benefits of Training with Lures
04:30 What My Dog Shelby Showed Me About Luring
05:42 University, Backwards Conditioning and Pavlov Review
07:52 Luring vs Shaping in Dog Agility and Dog Sports
09:54 How Luring Equals Bribery and Behavior Becomes a Negotiation
10:45 Why Shaping Releases Dopamine at Choice Points
11:45 Observations About Luring When Teaching Dog Trainers in Japan
12:48 Luring and Pattern Training
14:14 How a Dog’s Value for the Food Overrides Everything
18:15 What Are You Reinforcing?
20:10 Training Complex Behaviors
20:56 What You Learn First You Learn Best
23:00 Solution Based Dog Training and Daily Life
- - - - - - -
Dogs That is brought to you by Susan Garrett and the Say Yes Dog Training Team.
Susan Garrett’s interest in animal behaviour started at the University of Guelph where she earned a Bachelor of Science majoring in Animal Science. Since then she has developed into a preeminent dog trainer and canine sports instructor and competitor. Susan is one of the most successful agility competitors of the last three decades. She has won multiple Gold Medals at National or World Championship events with every dog she has ever owned over the past 30 years.
A natural teacher and an entertaining speaker, Susan is world renowned as a leading educator of dog trainers. Her understanding of how to apply science-based learning principles to both competitive and family pet dog training has been pivotal in changing how dogs are trained.
Susan is now helping many thousands of dog owners in 132 countries have the best relationship possible with their dogs. The real joy for her comes from bringing confidence to dogs and their owner through playful interactions and relationship building games that are grounded firmly in the science of how animals learn.
- - - - - - -
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Instagram: / susangarrettdogsthat
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Pinterest: pinterest.ca/dogsthatcom/
Twitter: / susangarrett
There’s always something new happening at Dogs That, so if you’d like to be the first to know, visit our website, register to receive updates, and we'll keep you in the loop.
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[@DogsThat]

We have the case study on how the German Shepherd learned to retrieve in this video - kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4PSmYdontSAi6c Discover more about dopamine and choice points in dog training - kzbin.info/aero/PLphRRSxcMHy1IUj_4P54q2PIuLNtnXjFO

[@una2702]

Don't leave us hanging! Please share how you worked with that GSD!

[@bbakarangerBLUE0716]

Same here ! I want to know

[@Mofiac]

Me too, haven't slept in months over this!

[@DogsThat]

We have the case study on how the German Shepherd learned to retrieve in this video - kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4PSmYdontSAi6c

[@jennyvalcore6417]

shaping, or click-reward when the dog does the right thing or a step in the process toward the whole that you want. [this is how we train parrots] .. also is a bridge or a communication-thread between the dog and the human! not just a dog following a lure [or parrot for that matter]. . the dog has to think about what it is doing to get the click that ends in a reward.. or to get the verbal 'yes' or whatever the 'click' is if verbal. I have found clicking is best because it's decidedly different than a verbal and always heard by the dog when under distraction and excitement. the shaping creates a real relationship to the dog and the human as well. it's much more engaging.

[@marywright2510]

Another phenomenal video. Thank you. The two things that stood out to me on my first listen were 1) both dog and trainer think less when using lures -- and I head-slapped "Shoot" that's part of why there's all this lack of clarity with my cues. And 2) "joy". I stopped showing when my dog had no joy in the ring. Watching a team perform with joy is awe-inspiring. This will help me (and my dog). I am sure this is one video I'll watch many times. Thank you again for your generosity in sharing your knowledge and your delightful spirit. Always uplifting.

[@DogsThat]

We're glad it helped, Mary, thank you!

[@lisapeer5310]

EXCELLENT! Its amazing what understanding does for both our dogs and us. Yes, anyone can do a behavior but to understand it is a whole new level! And retrieving? Yes please!

[@trishbech9082]

Totally agree!

[@ayakosaito7323]

Unfortunately most dog training these days is monkey see, monkey do.

[@juliannadigi]

Thanks so much for sharing Susan! I did a “Professional Dog Trainer Certification” program that was all lure based training. It worked well for my retired racing greyhound who was a lazy dog who was happy just to chill. I now have a 1 yr old greyhound and have pretty much tossed that training all out the window, he found much more reinforcement from his environment because the lure was not teaching him how to make good choices. Through your methods I have already seen such huge differences, yes it will take time to undo those triggers and patterns he initially learned but I know with time we will get there! So much learning for both of us that will eventually lead to more and more successful rehearsals 😁🙌

[@patriciag5797]

Thank you for these informative podcasts.

[@donnaashley8720]

BRILLIANT GEMS all over this podcast! ❤ Thank you!

[@TwoPartyIllusion]

Would LOVE to learn how you trained the dog to accept the dumbbell.

[@ammi_10]

I've been trying to catch up on your 2 years of podcasts (currently on #18) 😉 but I'm glad I watched this one today!🙂 Well worth my time

[@fransetter]

That's the key. Luring = no thinking involved. No thinking inhibits learning. I have been saying this for years, and got into a lot of trouble for saying so. Allowing dogs chance to think and work things out for themselves, creates super learning, and great pathways, it's wonderful to watch too. I have amazing Setters who are super learners and love what they do. They can do things without food in sight, as once they have learned, they truly understand and just love what they do. Great all rounders in dog sports too, with the young one learning competition obedience. Breaking it all down into small chunks and creating the wow - this is just grrrrrreat isnt it, factor. The food, the toy is the reward, not the lure, not the bribe.

[@onthespotwithtaalibah983]

Hi Ms. Garrett. Thank you so very much for this educational video. I am so glad I found you on KZbin! Every person who is supposed to be a trainer, use food luring. Growing up, I never heard of food luring. What I do remember is people training their dogs without any food lures and their dogs turned out fine. I liked how you explained things in this video. I’m glad that I was one of the very few people who would not use food luring, which is a distraction, as part of my dog training, as a possible trainer. Stay healthy, happy and safe.

[@katekate8586]

I've recently started your Recallers program Susan. I love it and all the work you and your team do. We are not just learning to train our pups. We are being coached along the way. The coaching from your team is amazing. We are incrediblly well supported. Thank you! I would love to hear about how you trained the german shepherd to retrieve.

[@fallonwertenberger6728]

I am getting a puppy next year. I have so much time to plan your videos help so much

[@jaimeek1219]

How do I fade out lure if they are already trained with only luring? I would love to know how to train without toys or lures. Thank you for your great information,helps me a lot in my training.

[@DE-ss5ks]

Here is another podcast from Susan on how to train without a lure. I don't think you'd fade it. You would just drop the lure completely and start fresh. Just be patient. Your dog will give you a behaviour, and you reward for that. Here is one on shaping a sit. dogsthat.com/podcast/155/ And one on shaping: dogsthat.com/podcast/5/

[@dianabriscoe4186]

Good discussion! I watched a video that described providing value to your dog in order to get the dog to consistently come to you. You have to make yourself more valuable than whatever it us they are doing. I can tell with my dog that he is fully engaged and excited to do things when he gets the sense that I am also excited and making it fun for him. He still gets treats but not nearly as much. I found that treats made me a bit lazy in first teaching my dog the foundational skills that are so helpful later. An example is those talking buttons people use with their pets. You can tell which pet owners used patience to first teach what "touch this" meant before moving on to the buttons. As owners we get excited to get to the end result and often sabotage ourselves and make it more difficult.

[@Christopher-vf6kx]

Wow, thank you Susan!! Seriously opened up our training for our smart, adorable and opinionated Aussies.

[@Yakitoriotaku]

Great break down - thanks

[@kellykilfeather]

Really interesting topic. Enjoyed hearing the science. My last dog, I never used lures, or treats, in his training. Partly because I’m just not organised enough to remember to bring any with me on a walk, and partly because when he initially came to me as an 8 yr old Romanian rescue, a Carpathian shepherd (livestock guardian), he wasn’t food orientated. He had been cooped up in a shelter or on a chain for so long, the whole world was way too distracting and exciting to be thinking about his stomach. And I just needed to teach him the basics, not any fancy tricks. But with repetition, and some problem solving in trying to figure out how I could get him to understand what I was asking, or how to get and keep his attention because his breed type is one that is always watching the horizon for danger- he learned SO good… and the only reward he got in training sessions was a scritch and praise. Or an “ah-ah-ah” if I wanted him to stop. And once something was locked in, he was reliable at it. I’m about to adopt two younger dogs, also Romanian rescues, also livestock guardian dogs, and your videos are teaching me loads. But I don’t want to teach them to expect treats for doing what they’re asked to do… coz what happens when I run outta treats?

[@DogsThat]

Hi @kellykilfeather, we have a playlist on the use of all sorts of reinforcement for dog training to help - kzbin.info/aero/PLphRRSxcMHy1IUj_4P54q2PIuLNtnXjFO

[@kellykilfeather]

@@DogsThat Went straight there from here (hey, did you already shape my behaviour? 😛) , thank you, they are hugely appreciated.

[@lourenfitzgerald943]

My dad has always used shaping or repeating and praising. Loved this talk

[@summittrickdogtraining1886]

This is such a great video. And OMG Susan, thanks so much for using a clip of a yawning Basenji to represent "the dog that loses interest". They are such bright dogs and fun to work with but… "you keep your cookie, I don’t want it" after 10 repetitions. Lol, that is the story of my life! (Home of 2 TDCH’s and 1 TDGCH/TKP Basenji).

[@mikeadamson1499]

All makes good sense , well explained , thankyou Susan! 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿👍

[@DE-ss5ks]

Since being in Recallers, I couldn't imagine ever luring again. It makes no sense. I just love the connection with my dog.

[@Elystia33]

Susan, I have been to several trainers and was always taught dog training via luring. When I started discovering your podcasts it was life-changing to me and the way I teach my dog. This is especially true for my agility goals. It is so true though that you tend to go back to what you have been taught and I frequently catch myself accidentally luring with food. I am currently struggling with the Seesaw for my dog. She made significant progress with the Seesaw I have in our yard and at the outdoor agility course. She would go up the Seesaw and down no problem many times over on these outdoor seesaws. The moment we went back to class and the Seesaw was out inside the classroom she heard the Seesaw and it was like everything we built up was gone. I made the mistake of trying to flood her by putting her on the sea salt and making her do it anyway. I learned what a mistake that is and that it is called flooding from your podcast. Now even with the outdoor seesaw she will not even want to go within a few feet of the seesaw. I have started back to square one and asking for any interaction with the Seesaw and rewarding with a clicker and treat. But progress is slow and I would love to know how you train a dog to love the Seesaw with transfer of value when the dog is very fearful and already has the mindset that the noise from the Seesaw is the scariest monster out there. Thank you so much for all you do and your help with educating us aspiring agility handlers.

[@DogsThat]

Hi @Elystia33, thank you for your wonderful note. All of our See-Saw training is broken down into layers to create confidence and success. Our Agility Nation program has a depth of information on the See-Saw, and if you pop into episode 105, and scroll down the page a little, there's a link with information with a special code to use for podcast viewers and listeners - dogsthat.com/podcast/105/

[@katherinefernald4241]

I can totally relate, And I loved the picture of the Basenji when you said some dogs….

[@jennyvalcore6417]

This channel is awesome!! When you look at parrot training.. using a target, before the reward.. to get them to move from one location to another or do a trick etc.. and using a lure ONLY when you need some big reason to help them get over something.. it's easy to see why.. but with dogs, it is different. so this is great!

[@trishbech9082]

yes! Please do a podcast about the German Shepherd learning how to retrieve! Love this podcast!

[@TrickDogWin]

I remember hearing her telling that story about the German Shepherd in a different video about conditioned emotional response. Maybe it was podcast #176 but I’m not certain without going through and rewatching everything.

[@maciesweeney-slick5469]

How do you navigate shaping vs. luring in canine fitness? I am trying to find more ways to shape exercises with all my dogs, but especially with my puppy who really hasn’t had anything lured (she has been entirely trained with the Susan Garrett method that we learned in the Dog’s That podcast, Home School the Dog, and Recallers). It seems like every conditioning course that I have taken always uses luring in order to “ensure proper form.” A fitness example: going from stand to down where the dog shifts backwards into down and then forward into stand without moving their feet. Is canine fitness better to lure to “ensure proper form?” How can we incorporate more shaping into fitness? Thanks so much! We are so thankful for you and your team!

[@Smilingharp]

I trained my rescue dog "in the old days" with all shaping. What I enjoyed was seeing her THINK as she tried things to get the approximation of the end goal, and then as she got the end goal behavior. Now I have a puppy and I'm "re-learning" training and gosh so much of it is lures. Until this video, I thought it was "the new advancement" but the times I used lures, I found that my dog didn't THINK. This video sold me on going back to always shaping behaviors. The dog ends up not dependent on me. Instead she is doing good behaviors because SHE thought them through. THANK YOU!!!!!!!

[@DogsThat]

Thank you! ❤️ There's a lot you can shape with the help of targets too, here's a playlist with ideas: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g6vIgaJth7iEq5Y&pp=gAQBiAQB

[@jessecullen4244]

Hey Susan I really agree with every point you made in this video and have really been trying to incorporate this into my own training. However I feel like I just don’t have enough of an understanding on how to use free or assisted shaping day to day. I would love some videos on a baseline training session with shaping in mind.

[@DogsThat]

Hi @jesse cullen, our videos on all the different ways to shape a sit or down without food luring will help. Sit - kzbin.info/www/bejne/jYGce4WdgLFlhc0 Down - kzbin.info/www/bejne/e2qsiX6rmtx9eqc

[@dessertthingy]

Great video :) Raising my current puppy without luring. Yes, please do a video on teaching a retrieve.

[@SleepyTinksy]

Just watched this and realized that I unintentionally switched from luring with my first dog to not luring with my second, for exactly the reasons you mentioned. While my first dog is brilliant and driven, she's also singularly focused on the treat and the hands. She also became hard to convince to do certain things unless she saw a treat. My second dog I decided to change things up and not keep treats in my hands or show it first, and he's much more willing to work because he knows he WILL get a reward if he does well, even if he can't see it. It hadn't occurred to me quite the depth of difference between the two methods, but your video definitely helps reinforce my choices when we're in a class that's using food lures and I choose to substitute my open palm or pointing - it's hard to go against the grain!

[@DogsThat]

Awesome, thank you for sharing this!

[@DoggyDooNeuroPaws]

I've used luring and shaping and I have to admit I get a faster response from any dog by shaping defo will be using shaping more going forward 😁 thanks for this video

[@doreenmengel977]

Yes, would love, love, love to see how you taught the German shepherd dog to retrieve.

[@LIndaECampbell]

I now have a third border collie after losing my last to a blood disorder. I was heartbroken because I never had a dog that was so attached to me and I to her. Now I have this 10 month old girl who won't come when I call. I started her on the "search" and "IYC" and she was a wiz, but I'm having a terrible time getting her to pay attention to me. She is also a terrible barker to the point my neighbours are complaining. I would love to know what you did with that German Sheppard. Thanks for sharing!

[@gailtaylor6488]

Hello Susan I have never used food as a training ade and have always quiet happy praise and a little gental massage and the result is great recall and the my dog looking into my sole🐾🤗👣

[@tterexx426]

YES please, I would love to know how the shepherd learnt how to retrieve!

[@stephanieshea6114]

would love to see what you did with the GSD in Atlanta 🐾🐾

[@jennyvalcore6417]

YESSS. Target training, clicker training. a bridge of communication.. if you are going to train a dog, you have to understand dog psychology.. and have it intermixed always.. and know what state of mind the dog is in and not accidentally reinforce obsessive focus or nuerotic focus or aggression on accident.

[@theresachung703]

Hair is so great!

[@SSS-sd1cf]

Teto is soooo cute 😍😍😍😍!

[@karinchristensen220]

I will be watching more of your videos. I currently have 10 dogs, most from shelters. Many of these dogs come to me having never heard the words, 'good dog', they only know fear of being hit or kicked or yelled at. They do not have to compete, but they need to learn the rules of the house and sometimes I have to do this as gently as possible until they trust me. Keeping treats with me didn't work because all of the dogs want a treat if I treat one dog since they are all with me all of the time. Instead, I started giving all the dogs a meat treat twice a day, once in the morning when they all go outside - a word they know - and do their morning business and at the end of the night when it's time to go to bed. I tell them what good dogs they are when they get the treat. Some know to sit for their treat because I taught some of them to sit with a treat reward, so I reinforce that and one very intelligent dog learned to sit from watching the others. This way they seem to learn that the word 'good' is associated something good. It seems to be working. When they are outside I observe and use any opportunity to reinforce some basic skill that they already have by just giving them loads of praise which seems to be all they need in return. When I call one of them and they start coming toward me I get all excited and wave my arms and they get excited and come faster and we all just have a good time with that recall. They have fun, they watch me and have lots of try. I don't know if that is a proper way to train but it works for my pack. I do want to learn more about shaping, though.

[@GLReverol1]

Hi Susan…. I’m “training” a GSD puppy with e delicate stomach. Lures don’t really work for me…. I just heard your story with the GS & it clicked with me. You said to comment to figure out how you get the GS to fetch… so here I am :) I’ll appreciate your input & expertise

[@thegamerboneless2864]

I don’t use lures either, I find building a relationship from the very start, and even with lures their are professionals who kill it. I think work what is best for the pup and yourself.. but you are completely right about not being regulated. So many professional trainers these days, even guard and personal protection training. It’s quite silly and scary

[@veronicaharding1643]

Please can you do a podcast on how you taught the GS mentioned how to fetch. Many thanks

[@caitandmoshi6510]

I’d love to hear how you got that retrieve!

[@h.l.386]

Fantastic, as always :) I am beginning flatwork, for a foundation for agility, and am struggling with spins. My aussie is very forward facing. Everyone, everyone has advised me to teach this by luring her. Well...she will back up, rear up and 'cirque de soleil' herself to get the lure but I still haven't been able to get her to spin. Any advice on how I might be able to shape this, and maybe meet with success? (Fingers crossed!)

[@azogal53]

Super super good. Thank you -- and please share the German Shepherd retrieve story. 🍪🍪🍪🍪🍪

[@funwithfido2430]

Brilliant! My dogs are taught primarily with shaping. But I still use luring in my beginner agility classes because owners are sooo wanting to get their dogs on the equipment. While I emphasize that we want to get rid of the lure is quickly as possible, I think these humans would not be happy with the slower but steadier and more reliable training that I do with my own dogs. I do teach my students about targeting; but I have to wonder... isn't targetting a form of luring?

[@jennyvalcore6417]

I think luring has its place.. and you can improve the speed of shapes behavior by adding the lure at key points.. as in, to get the dog over a difficult learning hurdle at some phase in the shaping. .. by Implementing a lure at the point allows them to connect the steps into one action more quickly at times. .. I think lures are powerful when used in the proper place.. but not so much when used solely . Also a lure can get the dog to begin an action we want.. and the. We can start shaping from there and let the lure go.. so it’s a sort of balance with using both effectively it seems

[@rebeccarasmussen9666]

Fabulous. Would love a 'cast on fetch without force.

[@johnpalmer7272]

Good stuff

[@kerryramplin8763]

Would like to know how you got the german shephard to retrieve. What motivation tool did you use if not food, play or love and affection?

[@conniegrassl5320]

Please let us know how it turned out with the GSD. Love your videos

[@felipecaicedo2316]

Excelente estimada señora Garrett. Evidentemente estamos expectantes a la solución del Pastor Alemán y sus dificultades con la recuperación. Un cordial saludo y muchas gracias por compartir su sabiduría y conocimiento.

[@DogsThat]

Hola Felipe, muchas gracias! Susan explica lo que hicieron con el Pastor Alemán en el episodio 177, aquí tienes el link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4PSmYdontSAi6c . Que lo disfrutes!

[@oquassa]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE how did you train the GSD to retrieve!!!!!!

[@jayfeather121]

Please do a podcast on the fetch with the GSD!

[@carolinesarahthompson9690]

This is very well explained. I've never used lures as a chair user. Then recently my 5 yr old dog was attacked and my dog became reactive. She's a big girl English mastiff. She is my support dog. She went from a role model dog who also visited hospital as a therapy dog for patients to unpredictable. I struggled desensitising her as an adult 67kg dog. She would just lunge 1metre and sit as if stay away! No bite worries but concerned that it may lead to that. Feeling beaten I employed a so called top trainer. I told her I didn't use lures and it wasn't practical for me either. First walk and the trainer wouldn't take the lead and we came across a dog. She insisted on full on let's go to the park that in my mind set her up to fail. Anyway my dog lunged. I was still in my chair at this point. Then the trainer threw sausages behind me on the floor 😑 and which flipped me backwards out the chair. My dog ate the sausage whilst I was on the deck thinking oh great I've been rewarded for lunging. Then lunged again. Somehow I kept hold of her. Hasten to add I did not pay the trainer. Not wishing to give up I bought a heavy power chair and 6 months later I have my dog back.

[@DogsThat]

Hi Caroline, we're so happy you have your girl back and everyone is safe ❤ Thank you for sharing this story, and for being part of our wonderful community 💕

[@Raphael_NYC]

Thank you.

[@DogsThat]

Thank you for watching!

[@wendyk806]

Yes I’d love to see how you got the dog who wasn’t interested in fetch to retrieve. I have 4 dogs. 2 love playing catch and the other two love to play with each other. They are littermates. I try to get them to play fetch, and they will, but they’ll drop the ball or stick and run off playing with each other in short order. Also all of my Border Collie mix and Aussie Mix dogs don’t like water. It would be great to see a video to try to get dogs comfortable in water, and I would love to get them jumping from a dock if possible.

[@DogsThat]

Hi Wendy, we've got you covered! Here's the link to the case study about the retrieve - kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4PSmYdontSAi6c - and here's our video all about water - kzbin.info/www/bejne/pZbbhHlji5h4gsk

[@kerrygray2726]

Oh WOW had such a moment. .wow now I KNOW where I Hav been going wrong...was actually quite depressed on how my dog training was going...I'm not competing ..just love living with my dogs ..THANX fir explaining. ...click and cookie🐾🐾🐾

[@DogsThat]

Thank you, Kerry, glad this is helpful!

[@haleyheffley2501]

Wonderful podcast, Susan! I'd love for you to do a podcast on how you quickly got the golden retrieving. I'm working with my Ellie on the "Bring Me" program, but I still have some road bumps with retrieving certain objects. Training bumpers are still self reinforcing to Ellie. I tried to go through as many objects as possible for the stage where Ellie just puts the object in my hand. I've kept Ellie on lead when I have new objects. Whenever a bumper comes into the picture, Ellie wants to shake the bumper and try to dart away. I make sure to control the environment in a corner and have Ellie on lead. I'm just not sure how to increase the value for bringing any and everything back to me. I'd love to hear in a podcast how you found the golden retriever's highest value reinforcement. Ellie has had amazing cookies and tug toys, so I'm not sure how to up my antics. I fear the value is still in the cookies/rewards and not me. Listening to this podcast is going to make me more aware to always have reinforcements hidden before given to Ellie. I think I do a pretty good job at this, but I'm going to re-evaluate my mechanics. One question I have for this podcast relates to when you mentioned you don't voice you have a cookie. I'm a Recallers student. One game we are constantly building on right now is "Working through Distractions." I don't want to disclose the content of this game, and please let me know if I should post this to the Recallers community instead. In the beginning of the "Working through distractions" lesson, you mention when there is a distraction your dog is locking up on, you retreat with some distance. I have been doing this with Ellie for things she is reactive to like cars, livestock, etc. In the video, you also mention you'll vocalize, "Here's a cookie." Are you saying the words as you are delivering a cookie? When a truck pulled into my driveway and Ellie was focusing on it, I found myself pulling out the cookie and then saying, "Here's a COOOOOOKIE." Now I feel like I was luring her away from the trigger. Can you provide clarity on the mechanics of the process of working through distractions like tractors (or whatever the trigger may be)? Thank you in advance!

[@DogsThat]

Hi @Haley Heffley this would be super to post in Recallers 💙

[@haleyheffley2501]

@@DogsThat will do! After typing it, I had a guy feeling I should put it in the community. Thank you for your patience and understanding with my questions. 😊💕

[@armiller70]

I would like to hear podcast on the GSD's retrieve.

[@wendylevine6076]

Please share how you got the GSD to retrieve. I am very curious.

[@darnold5575]

I do want to know what worked for retrieval of dumbbell.

[@mell.7817]

Normally,I enjoy your videos. They are fun and insightful to watch. 🐾😀 This one seemed incomplete. So less about how other trainers use lure shaping and more about how you do it differently. Did you cover this in another video that I missed?

[@DogsThat]

Hi Mel, thanks for your lovely note. We have a full playlist on target training with practical examples to help - kzbin.info/aero/PLphRRSxcMHy3ylCyQ2bJQSCwo_ERiVHj3

[@mell.7817]

Super. Thank you for all your effort to help us have the best dogs we can.

[@ecsagilityx2]

I’d also like to know how you taught the retrieve.

[@Simmy27Star]

YEP!!! This is what I do with my dog and what my dog trainer does in group classes that is extremely successful. I had to do shaping from the very beginning because she is a basset hound, and if I used treats from the very beginning, I would have created a MONSTER that only listens if she smells treats on me

[@sandrabeck8788]

Omg! A Basenji! You DO KNOW YOUR DOGS!

[@BdwyMTI]

How did you train a non-forced, reliable, and excited retrieve?

[@pittymama4500]

I'm so glad 8m not the only one! I don't always have treats but I always need good behavior! We learn vs bribe.

[@sammylittlemoose7708]

How do I use shaping to train my dogs? I'm not interested in dog trials, I'm interested in training two livestock guardian dogs without inhibiting their ability to guard. One is a great Pyrenees, the other an Akbash. The great Pyrenees female is about 1 year old. She hasn't been trained to lease and I am currently not able to get a collar on her. The Akbash male is almost four years old and I have had problems with him running after other dogs or predators so I currently have to keep him tied up. In my present situation I have extremely limited transportation so I need a means of training from my location. Where Can I find out about shaping dog training?

[@windywilliamson5069]

Leaving you a comment about retrieve

[@bender5561]

The story from Japan describes my dog exactly!

[@armiller70]

You mentioned the group that the dogs did amazing until they took the bait bags off. Can you have a podcast on why that's a lure and how remove reinforcement from your body and get the same offered behaviors?

[@crazeedogs]

The GSD lady should have fired that coach. Thanks for this great video.

[@mariannemay2669]

Susan I want to see how you train a dog to eat if it is not wanted. Can that also be used for a ToCat? My son has a kitten. Maybe 12 weeks. I want to get a puppy but I need to train cat do you do this. Marianne

[@smilingdog54]

I would love to see how you got the GSD to retrieve

[@DogsThat]

H Rebecca, Susan covers this as a case study in a video, here's the link for you - kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4PSmYdontSAi6c

[@sydneycooleybrewer4215]

I am starting agility training with my dog and it is going pretty well. Once he learns a trick, he is very good. However, he does not OFFER at all! He will sit and stare at me instead of trying something new to get a treat. I understand that he has been lured too much in the past and has never learned shaping. But how do I fix this and get him to start offering?

[@garlicbread9248]

I would love to know how to shape my dog for dog dance. Most tricks I've learned him so far (not that many) are trained by luring. I'd love to try shaping but i don't know how to really

[@DogsThat]

Hi @Garlicbread, our playlist on target training for dogs is a great starting place - kzbin.info/aero/PLphRRSxcMHy3ylCyQ2bJQSCwo_ERiVHj3

[@chrismccollough545]

We are into Dog Dance and Tricks. You might want to look at the WagNation Training Programm. We are in it as well as Recallers. Each is based on positive reinforcement and fun.

[@Andrew-mk1bu]

I would love to learn how you trained the GSD that was not motivated by food!

[@TrickDogWin]

I remember hearing her telling that story about the German Shepherd in a different video about conditioned emotional response. Maybe it was podcast #176 but I’m not certain without going through and rewatching everything.

[@silviaancheta7227]

How did ou get the German Shepard to retrieve? Can you add a link to this video? Thank you 😊

[@DogsThat]

Hi Silvia! The link to the video is in the first comment, here it is for you: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4PSmYdontSAi6c Enjoy!

[@warriorstudeo188]

So I'm trying to take in all of the information and finish the video before I judge. I know I'm missing something, everything you're saying is making a lot of sense but, I'm missing what to do instead of using treats. I think it's probably because every KZbin video on training tells you to use food and reinforcements. How can I train my dog with something that she does like? Also this a real question. I'm actually curious. :-) I want to train my dog in the best way, which is why I'm looking at all options

[@RaptorsGirl]

Just to be clear, I do use food and toys in my training, however, I use them to reward choices after the dog has performed a response rather than using food as a lure to prompt that response. How I do that should become more clear by watching videos like kzbin.info/www/bejne/qIOtfmxplqhkiNE or an actual training demostration such as this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/hWfWm2mcia-hfMU or videos like this series kzbin.info/www/bejne/g6vIgaJth7iEq5Y if you still have questions I will be happy to answer them.

[@lisar4951]

Susan uses food as reinforcement (along with toys and permission) by shaping vs luring. The video explains it pretty well along with other video resources 😀

[@maryharris9823]

Ok so how did you get the Shepard to do as you asked.

[@milissaellan6805]

All my puppy's behaviors have been shaped.... except for the stacking for conformation. Not surprisingly, it's his weakest behavior. 😕 I learned my lesson!

[@rosalynbeaudoin3730]

How do we transfer to no lure after being trained with lure

[@vincentwscheong]

Story about the German Shepherd please!

[@decoydave]

Oh the irony. The outro was clicker and luring training. Or am I missing something? Interesting video 👍

[@DogsThat]

Hi! Susan does use the clicker for precise behaviors, more info in this episode: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fp2VknVnidd4Z6c . The behavior Tater is doing in the outro is taught using a target. Here's our playlist on target training if you're interested: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g6vIgaJth7iEq5Y&pp=gAQBiAQB Happy training!

[@felizdog4644]

HOW YOU DID RETRIEVING? :) :) Yes I want to know!!! :) . I love your video because I do not like lure at all (and people think I'm weird ;))... I rather never use, for plenty of reason you said... But I would enjoy to have clue to remove 100% lure. In order to help better my client, I was about to learn them more about food lure, as Doc Ian dunbar explain: lure is only the 6-10 first time, and then stop. So that mean just day 1 with lure. But if you can give more information to never use lure... I would totally enjoy! And thanks for the dopamine vidéo! (even if it give me more questions before than after saw it! :) More i learn, more i realise I kwow rather nothing!).

[@DogsThat]

Hi @Feliz Dog, thank you for such a great note! The case study for the German Shepherd is in our latest podcast, here's the link - kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4PSmYdontSAi6c

[@smithrt15238]

How did you get the GSD to retrieve

[@DogsThat]

Hi Richard, here's the video with the case study - kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4PSmYdontSAi6c

[@nanettelai1525]

What you learn first, you learn best. And that’s why I had to sing the ABC song whenever I needed to do any filing 🤣 not anymore thanks to digitization

[@ElleT94]

Susan please tell us what you did with the GSD!?

[@DogsThat]

Hi Elle, thanks for asking! We have the case study on how the German Shepherd learned to retrieve in this video - kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4PSmYdontSAi6c

[@salesfocus6270]

The big thing for me is my pup is so blinded by the food that she doesnt really learn what shes doing unless its really simple. She also wants the food so much she gets frustrated and jumps to try to grab stuff out my hands, pockets e.c.t

[@DogsThat]

Hi! Shaping instead of luring helps a lot, you could also try lower value treats :)

[@SoraiaLMotta]

yes I want to learn about the german shepard not food motived. Had a dog that wasn't much food or toy motiveted but at least she was favorite peoples motiveded.

[@user-ut5dg7gd9j]

How did u teach that German shepherds to retrieve Thanks

[@DogsThat]

Hi! Susan shares that story in this other podcast episode: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4PSmYdontSAi6c

[@rockyandmiles9889]

I’ve been treat training for 6 months… not sure how to phase it out because he expects it now for pretty much everything 😕

[@toddtraster6694]

How did you teach the shepherd to retriev

[@DogsThat]

Hi Todd, thanks for asking! We have the case study on how the German Shepherd learned to retrieve in this video - kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4PSmYdontSAi6c

[@ConnieWheeler-go7bl]

I have always used lures and would like to train without them. She won't do anything without them. How do I begin?

[@DogsThat]

Hi Connie, we love that you're looking to shape behaviors with your dog, so much fun ahead for both of you! We have the perfect playlist full with resources for you, link below ⬇️ Dog Training Games with Susan Garrett (includes fun games, sit, down, tricks and more): kzbin.info/www/bejne/g6vIgaJth7iEq5Y Happy shaping!

[@suehiro107]

OmD. I Love You!

[@theresachung703]

Please tell us about

[@jenniferrosenblum1310]

Watched a dog at a barn hunt seminar try to get food from a hand held near the rat tube for a while, then give up, leave, and go to greet all the people instead. Trainer said some nonsense about the dog caring more about attention. Nope. That dog did what I bet it usually does around a hand with food. When that was the wrong answer it went to go find some other reinforcement. Some half decent shaping and getting the food out of the way until after the behavior and neither dog nor human would have had to get to that level of frustration.

[@jenniferrosenblum1310]

My positive from this seminar was I passed by a training facility on the way I’ve never heard of before that looks like it could be really good.