The Gameplay Story Integration Of Delthea's Power (And Luthier's Lack Thereof)

Pour one out for Lu, one upped by a child.
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[@mauricesteel4995]

Clive is also a case of Stat integration to story, he is famous indeed, but as Tobin asked: then how is the best knight in the kingdom losing the war? Clive is way overhyped in universe. he is a serviceable knight, but his combat prowess leaves a lot to be desired, and he knows that, thats why he passes the torch to Alm, because while Clive was failing every instance, Alm as soon as he joins, clears a gang of bandits, saved his sister and his Fiancee, and pushed and actually started to push back against Desaix. Clive feels the pressure over his shoulders all the time, and that reflects even in his relationship with Matilda, where she express concern to him that people are saying she is overshadowing him in performance, and asks him if she should hold back to not shame him. which he responds that its nonsense, and if he wanted to be seen as superior, he should merit it, instead of asking for his fiancee to hold her own potential. Clive is mediocre and he knows it, despite everyone in story overhyping him as the best knight that ever was.

[@omarmoreno5186]

shut up, tobin.

[@kirimusse]

The art of being a badass by not being it at all, you could say.

[@birdofclay9581]

I thought, he was just burnt out and tired, but that makes even more sense.

[@mauricioalvarezpino1818]

Another fun thing about these siblings is that Luthier has a higher skill cap in comparison to Delthea's higher magic cap, it's just a little detail that only matters if you do postgame or something, but still, neat

[@notanobviouschoice]

Tbh Luthier has a fun niche of being a high crit mage with Excalibur. Surprisingly effective but nothing compared to Delthea’s raw damage output

[@NahNope62]

Granted, Tobin can also fill that role, but I agree that it’s still a niche.

[@ElvenRaptor]

And both will go down real quick if a Necrodragon so much as looks at them funny.

[@boredomkiller99]

Funny thing is Delthea is tiered lower then Luthier in most lists due to his availability, ease of hitting promotion and having thunder and Excalibur. Like Delthea is better in terms of stats and she is a nuke while Luthier falls off as his mag stat and spells stop biting hard enough but dang being level 3 that far into the game hurts Delthea. One other thing to mention is how Luther support helps Delthea out a lot since at A it raises her hit rates with her strong spells to 100%. Kind of goes into how Luther supports Delthea in story. Lastly just going bring up that Clive's medicare stats are also story based actually. While it is true that Clive is hyped up by people who don't know him it is made clear that Clive is meant to be inferior long term to all the other default gold knight class units as his strength is not his combat. Makes sense when Mathilda is a war goddess, Zeke is actually Camus the strongest knight of his home continent and Mycen is as legend. Meanwhile Clive is just a knight. Clive's strong point is his inspiring personality, dedication and his logistic skills. Edit: Also I think it is worth mentioning that another of Delthea's advantage is being the only default mage on Alm's learning Seraphim. Considering how many fiends you fight late game it really helps her out.

[@orange6259]

Preach Luthier doing everything to satisfaction is superior to overkill in just raw damage.

[@niner2195]

The funny thing about Clive is that he is easily the best of the cavs that you get in SoV due to his massive avalability lead and therefore exp lead due to how well he does with a rider bane in act 3.

[@TheDJman248]

I feel like the integration would have been even better if Luthier had a way higher number over his sister in precisely one area in terms of stat and growth: Skill. Why? Because while Delthea has raw power given to her by her bloodline...her study habits towards the arcane are apparently awful. Hell, she even seals away her magic to live like a normal, magicless villager in her ending! In contrast, while Luthier has mediocre magic, his knowledge of the arcane and his studious nature (though severely detrimental to his social skills) are actually top notch. And his ending practically has him go on a sabbatical to seek even MORE magical knowledge. Think about it: Luthier can't access the higher tier spells...but he gets waaaaay more of the mid tier ones compared to his sister. Delthea is a more powerful unit, while Luthier, although weaker, could be a better UTILITY unit. Despite being a mage.

[@degreeskelvin3025]

True. Someone already mentioned this but he does have a higher skill cap. But yeah, it'd be better if he had higher skill base and skill growths

[@Caterwaulin]

@@degreeskelvin3025 I looked it up, Luthier has the highest Skill growth in the game ... At a 75 growth he is 15 higher than 2nd.

[@degreeskelvin3025]

@@Caterwaulin oh wow. Was too lazy to actually look it up so thanks dude. I guess they really did tie the lore in properly with Luthier

[@luthierisbestboy8177]

I just wish his attack growth and cap were a bit higher, even if it's only an extra 5 to 10 percent in his growth and an extra point or two in his cap in exchange for other stats (preferably luck and defense). You can still be naturally talented in something and feel inadequate about your talents. (Olivia from Awakening definitely represents this because of her shyness.)

[@hylianvanguard2195]

one thing you missed is that with the stat comparison between them Delthea's main advantage is that she has the highest atk growth in the game (70%) while Luthier has one of the lowest (30%) this is explained by the ancestor thing and Delthea's talent. On the other hand, Luthier has the largest skill growth in the game (75%) while Delthea's is fairly low (35%) showing how Luthier spends far more time studying and training than anybody else but especially Delthea. still a good video. Also, Luthier is the significantly better unit but that's irrelevant.

[@scarocci7333]

Gameplay story integration i what make Kaga's games so particular. He doesn't care about balance, but how character strenghts make sense (usually) regarding their respective lore strenght. FE4 and FE5 are probably his best works in this area

[@Posby95]

You mean FE4 and FE5?

[@scarocci7333]

@@Posby95 Yeah my bad i corrected it

[@tklos9666]

I recently played Gaiden for the first time, and I actually found Luthier to be way better there than in Echoes. Weaker enemies make his offenses better, and slow exp gain means your villager mage won't be as high level. Although Delthea is still way better lol

[@TheAxeLord47911]

Eyyyy, Wolt fan!

[@viviblue7277]

“What mage is bulky?” Kliff and/or Tobin.

[@luthierisbestboy8177]

I still think my man deserved better. At least an extra spell or two, being treated better in the story (like an extra support with Kliff or Alm), and slightly higher magic growths and cap in SoV (35% atk growth and an atk cap of 39).

[@Warchief-te9jj]

FEMSPaint: nosferatu tanking doesn’t count. Lysithea: *laughs*

[@viviblue7277]

Luthier has 2 things, huge things, over his sister: availability and recruitment condition. Recruiting his sister is so awful it’s usually not even worthwhile on most challenge runs. Luthier on the other hand is quite helpful right out the gate.

[@Yarharsuperpirate]

Its actually not that bad to recruit her if you get Alm's subdue skill. Which is incredibly easy to get by that chapter. Just have to bait Delthea to warp to one of your allies. Smack her with subdue. And she's out of the battle at 1 hp unable to do anything for the rest of the battle. Then just ignore her for the rest of the fight.

[@viviblue7277]

@@Yarharsuperpirate yeah if you can subdue her and get her away from healers that does work, but when you’re on an actually hard challenge runs and every action counts it’s more convenient to just stab her.

[@birdofclay9581]

On my first run of Echoes Delthea warped next to Kliff, attacked and almost killed him, got crit on the counter attack, almost dying herself. At least she didn´t even attempt to get healed and just stood around menacingly for the rest of the battle.

[@Grima1805]

Believe in Zweihänder Luthier Long live the pitchfork

[@snider1365]

6:00 you underestimated the Shanam fanbase

[@readtherules7101]

Luthier might be mid, but I’ll grind levels in dungeons, give him the speed ring, and rig his levels with the Mila’s turnwheel because I like him. And at the end of the day, that’s what matters.

[@aleisterleopold6229]

Pent is a tanky mage

[@ElvenRaptor]

"Most people favor using Delthea while sidelining her brother." **laughs in obsessively promoting and leveling every character to**

[@usvidragonslayer3091]

Delthea and Celica. Two of the best Rangarok users users in Gaiden/SoV.

[@Prince_Leif]

I feel like Luthier should've had probably the worst spell list but over average growths and vice versa for Delthea, it would make more sense like that

[@ness6099]

Head Canon: Luthier and Dethra are an offshoot of Crusader Fjalar, so far off that only the females of the family get the magical benefits. Hell, could even be Arthur or Tine’s descendant (canonically they lean towards Azel being their father) since it’s like a thousand years between FE4 and Gaiden

[@Echoes-dz2ur]

Isn't echoes before fe4 and F5?

[@Olimario34_]

​@@Echoes-dz2ur Echoes happens over 1000 years after the events of FE4

[@d3-ll754]

"Despite joining like four levels lower than Luthier and like five maps after him, her stats are comparable to his across the board." See that'd be good if Lvl wasn't the only important stat before Promo. XD Since you go up to your Class bases upon Promo, the best Units are the ones who can most quickly Promote to their highest Class Tier, and since Delthea not only joins at the start of Act 4 basically, is a measly Lvl 03, and also is in the slowest-Promoting Class in the game, Delthea's raw power is inconsequential when, by now, a trained Luthier can do everything she does but faster (this is why Clive is better than Mathilda despite Clive "feeling" worse). You briefly touch on Excalibur and Sagittae but then almost just brush them off like they're unimportant when they're two of the best Spells a Mage can have in Echoes, and Fear Mountain Shrine also gives you the Speed Ring which will mitigate Sagittae's Weight from 11 down to 1, making Luthier one of your best lategame combatants if trained up to learning Sagittae ('cuz who else is in dire need of that Speed? Definitely not the Barons, and if not them, certainly nobody else). I'll concede that what you've described is probably the intent though, even if the gameplay only expresses it at the most basic of levels seemingly without thinking about how the game's core systems will impact the idea. Something IS does a lot, I've noticed.

[@spiderzsonic6581]

5:28 marth in fe1 be like

[@TheAustin1]

1:44 naturasu tanking does not count Me and everybody else: yes it does

[@degreeskelvin3025]

Awesome Echoes discussion?! Easy subscribe

[@davidgoldammer348]

6:00 An analysis on Shannam is what is required to hit 10K subs and we all know it now

[@Olimario34_]

i definitely think Luthier and Delthea's family are distant descendants of Fjalar, and the reason Luthier is much weaker is because he didn't inherit any holy blood and Delthea did. that would also be why Delthea can use Ragnarok.

[@janrafaelyrigoyen7433]

Holy fuck that actually makes sense

[@meljXD2]

echos is a really really really good game

[@sweatyfreddy7151]

Great doot screaming in joy from this video like

[@arzfan29]

Atlus with a bow after having gone through the dread fighter loop at least once can solo grima

[@Elite_Teach]

Best unit

[@matthewsimon6170]

Ironically enough, if you at any point grind enough to cap their stats, Luthier is actually just as good as his sister, if not better in some ways. Granted, i use a pitchfork to switch him to an archer, since his main good stat is skill, but im comparing their mage stats

[@Hallalemon]

I have always randomly found myself getting super weird RNG when it comes to unit growth, my Clive's have been monsters while my Mathilda's have just been sad. Luthier and Delthea are no different. Always had better than average Luthier's and Delthea's that lack power

[@Shazam1998]

Or, its just a coincidence that means jack.

[@mcihay246]

It's not so much a coincidence as long as it follows what has already been provided from the OG games. Considering that Kaga is rather particular with Gameplay-Story Integration... For better or worse.

[@chromxrobinandcorrinxcamil9031]

Delthea, as well as Celica, Marla, and Clair, = my wives.:)

[@femspaint2911]

Delthea is a literal child

[@hombojimbo]

🤨📸

[@plastikrappavevo4786]

Unpopular opinion but I really hate Delthea's personality. Shes a pretty good unit and can help you a lot, I just hate how overconfident and annoying she is. Everyone else is struggling in a literal war for the continent and trying to kill a mad god, and she still just acts all aloof and self-entitled at every chance she gets. It's the same reason I like Lute in gameplay but have issues with her overconfidence. Even in the literal final battle, when everyone knows they are facing their biggest challenge yet, shes still boasting about being stronger than gods and how good she is in her final map quote. It's just so aggravating to me, I cant stand it.

[@WanOlDan]

Same issue I have with Karel's angy weeb ass. Only I don't bother using him since he's my least favorite char in that game.

[@nevrikx]

Ced is fairly tanky. At least mine is

[@projectmessiah]

Wow really

[@projectmessiah]

Dont know why I was being sarcastic here lol

[@artisticcannibalism1350]

I enjoyed the video but you didn't really explain what's so worthwhile about a mediocre unit, besides making other units look better in comparison.

[@sonamy3]

I headcanon Luthier as trans because it makes everything about him funnier lol imagine your magical bloodline was like "you're a guy? ok well now you're mediocre. Have fun!"