The Gay Urge to Compare Female Divas

[@SaveThatMoney411]

This man is well-moisturized.

[@concernedg7636]

It's killing me. He is literally glowing. I need a skincare video

[@ensulalachance8353]

😂😂😂

[@gaylefranklin]

He certainly is. And the pleasure of seeing a comment that doesn’t address his “eloquence”, “diction” and “articulation”………. I swear, I shouldn’t be ready to fight in these comments but our allies are shakey af and he deserves so much better.

[@trashketchum9782]

@gaylefranklin yeah there’s quite a lot of that. Herby is genuinely an amazing speaker and orator so i get the urge to compliment him on it. but there are other ways to express that without the racist undertones

[@petercampbell8284]

I actually like his use of academic vernacular to popularize the conversations that would normally take place inside the walls and echo chambers of college classrooms. Continue to grow Herbie into the public social commentator and public intellectual that you can be.

[@notcosteffective9920]

I disagree. Im not a fan of using academic secondary language to describe issues felt innately. It’s corny.

[@TheeRealKamesha]

I say this every time I watch his videos . His level of intelligence is great . A very well spoken/ educated black man !

[@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024]

@@notcosteffective9920Girl bye.

[@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024]

@@TheeRealKameshaWell spoken?

[@gaylefranklin]

@@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024 I know…. WHY in AD 2023 do ppl who would normally present themselves as an ally or progressive… WHY do they not see the problem? They breezily hit post, tweet, send without a clue as to how they reveal themselves.

[@remytherat2929]

“That script teaches us how to hate women not how to love them. we’re trying to love them but we’re failing” whewww I fr said damn out loud when I heard that

[@killingthemood2000]

In honor of your request... "A *diva* is a female* version of a hustler" - Beyonce The way this woman has guided every era of my consciousness. I finally acknowledged her power during Lemonade and I never turned back. It's great to have a better understanding of why I stan and respect her presence so much

[@senescence57]

Tell me why I wanted to make the same reference?

[@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024]

I acknowledged her power in Destiny Child and stayed forever 😭

[@SBvilleHaus]

I LOVE this video. I often say that other people forget that Gay men are still men, and likely had some level of socialization that supports that. With that being said I also make sure I paraphrase Audre Lorde right after that, because Patriarchy truly does not care about your gender identity or sexual orientation when it comes to choosing who to oppress. It takes on unique forms whenever it worms it’s way through any community. It’s up to the people within those communities/intersections to identify, analyze and hopefully work through what those forms are. Another well thought out sociological analysis! 🙌🏾👏🏾

[@FlyestDesign]

As a straight man who wishes to have a deeper understanding of all spaces. Your delivery is eloquent, witty, and charismatic. Bravo

[@nameisamine]

Not you and Khadija posting at the same time! Your contribution to her video essay was 👌 👏

[@doodle3446]

female diva! Whew this topic is a good one, the obsession with pitting women against each other with numbers, sales, appearance, streams, past incidents, and private life on stan twitter is disturbing. It's amazingly wild that so many of the gays dedicate all this time calculating the success of one woman just to tear down and attack another woman. It's almost like a sport at this point 😒

[@noahzero9380]

Yes yes. I have an insatiable urge to put Beyoncé above all celebrity women. This needs to be addressed.

[@lexidimaria927]

As a messy gay that you are of course you will say that. Nobody put beyonce above others singers only her fan base just like other singers fans put their favorite singer above every other singers

[@lexidimaria927]

This unnecessary hate agaist beyonce needs to stop always comes from messy gays like you

[@PerryPerfectPerson]

Well, Beyoncé is the best of the best of mainstream. It’s just fact.

[@CHEETAH69]

It makes sense though.

[@Morning404]

Mariah for me.

[@fluffbytepresents]

female diva. just found u today thru the collab u did in Khadija Mbowe's new video. thanks for starting hard conversations about intersectional issues in the queer community -Thornbyte

[@OE2023]

whaaaaaat they did a collab I'm so glad my recommended brought them to me loveeeee

[@chloeperdue5046]

Female diva!!! This was an awesome video! It reminded me about a video I saw on the Wild West that is tiktok, where a gay man was talking about the vagina in a not so great way, but then another gay man stitched it and reminded ppl that this is misogynistic, which is very much is. I think this video was great in opening up conversations in the gay community!

[@marshmello3455]

I like how you highlighted the potentially dehumanizing and objectifying nature of pedestalization. It's something I think about quite a bit from the inside. I'm obviously no Beyonce, but I have interactions with people who perform a much lesser version of this script. "We're trying to love them," is right, I think. It doesn't come from a malicious place, but it can still hurt. Anytime we interact with a person as an object (be that an object of derision or worship), it can hurt because we are failing to acknowledge their base humanity foremost.

[@n2essence]

In a weird way, this is really made me cry. And I'm not sure why. But it did.

[@pj-ge8er]

Thank you for doing this. It's one of reasons I left Facebook. Janet, Mariah, Madonna, Beyonce. One has to go 🤦‍♂️

[@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024]

Madonna can go. 💀

[@gaylefranklin]

@@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024 It’s cute watching you try, but Madonna will hold her seat. Now, would you be a lamb and tap Mariah Carey on the shoulder for me?

[@marklouis1890]

New subscriber. I'm queer and proud. I do not need one month of validation or praise. I am queer 365 days of the year 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈. Love your content, so far 😊😊😊

[@Torihaze00]

Heyyo, bw here! Just want to say this video essay is amazingly thought provoking and so eloquently done. I love the self reflection and the deep thought and I feel like your points were so easily understood. I feel like I learned something my damn self lol. We really are magical when we all come together 😂❤. Also love your collab with Khadija. 🔥👏🏾Happy Pride to you and your loved ones. 🎊

[@torileslie530]

Omg we have the same name 🥰🥰 I liked the breakdown of this video. I love how a gay man is calling out the almost “negative” side of the tendency that some gay men do such as pit them against each other. I feel like it should be talked about more by ppl in their own space/community.

[@Torihaze00]

@@torileslie530 ohhh yayyy twins!! 😂 And yeah I agree I like video essays that are more self reflecting of one’s own community.

[@thestylingtwins]

Yes! Totally agree! Loved his honesty.

[@Chuuzus]

"and if you are white and confused" lmaoooo!

[@yvonnenoel7206]

I adore listening to you. You are so Brilliant. Happy PRIDE 🌈

[@wandisilesomdyala6834]

The comedic relief of the fan going the wrong way gets me EVERYTIME😍😂.

[@KhaosTalks]

The vocabulary alone is everything‼️

[@JGWatches]

This is a great discussion and it reminds me of something that happened a little while ago. I am with this group and we were all asked to list people who inspired us and I naturally listed Beyoncé lol and when I was explaining why, this dude was basically like I guess and said he like Michael Jackson and his music. In my mind, I was thinking this goes beyond music lol but I could not find the words to express how much bigger the connection is for me and I think other people in our community. With this discussion, you really put it into words and I would love to see more literature about the connection.

[@commandery3574]

interesting question but i’m curious if/how much colorism plays a role. i noticed that in your thumbnail, you had primarily lighter skinned singers and then of course, the late legend Whitney Houston. There’s a connection in my mind with (some) darker skinned gay men in particular and their almost worship of these lighter skinned divas. I wonder if that yer another iteration of the colorism we see in the community with (some) straight black men. It’s very interesting to me. This stuff goes deep.

[@cmg25]

Short answer: Yes.

[@chanellllllll8190]

Wow.. didnt even think of this. I love how intellectual everyone in this comment section is, i learn something new every time.

[@samkeefer7193]

Yup, colorism/desirability go hand in hand in our society

[@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024]

Idk, I see alot of them worship Darkskin divas more than anyone else

[@fanout9921]

Possibly connected to the relationship between skin tone and femininity and how mainstream pushes masculinity on darker tones. "Tall, dark, handsome." As if darkness is inherently masculine, ergo leading feminine-driven eyes to the associated "feminine" skin color/tone.

[@jeanoediaw8945]

When I listen to female artist it feels like they give me the permission to be my true authentic self 💖💖💖💖💖💖💖 they make me feel appreciate it, they make me feel like I can take on anything in life 💖💖💖💖💖💖💖.

[@daniellemoxey9940]

Female Diva‼️ The disection this dynamic was so perfectly done!!! Not one word wasted, not one point incorrect. Thank you for putting language to the intricacies of our lives. As a cis-het woman I'm finally happy to have the words to describe the reciprocated love between black women and black gay men/femmes, furthermore our united love for our Divas. It's so helpful to unpack that even in my fandom if certain elements go unchecked, i too can peddle in mysogynoir/misogyny. You deserve a doctorate for this dissertation 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@cadyg2531]

Always coming through with the conversations and topics we wanna dissect 👏🏾

[@eddyquara]

ATE! I’ve been mulling over this topic for a minute. Thank you for synthesizing these idea 💕

[@sharonbaker3007]

Ooh great timing Herby!!!

[@h.r4017]

Sharooon!!! Thank you friend. I try chile 🥹🫶🏿

[@ahmarindungu9010]

When I see gay men especially black gay man it hurts I’ve seen three group together to drag pregnant women and their bodies Nobody should be talking about peoples bodies but seeing men do that is horrible

[@lolomar]

im a gay man and have seen gay men judging women’s bodies, but i’ve never seen a gay man make fun of a woman who was pregnant, that’s a new low lol.

[@ahmarindungu9010]

@@lolomar yeah I’ve had to report many of them they were calling them big and talking about their waist and butts……. Then after all that of people defending them they proceeded to say the babies were born a year or more ago so they should’ve snapped back 😟

[@KnowledgeSeeker78491]

​@@ahmarindungu9010 Now was this online? In real life black gay men aren't in the best shape themselves

[@ahmarindungu9010]

@@KnowledgeSeeker78491 online and real life I would’ve never thought someone would be so bold

[@BozeDoesGodsWork]

@@KnowledgeSeeker78491Nah some of them actually are on their P’s and Q’s and tend to mind their business. It’s the younger ones that are more rowdy and bold when they’re with their friends. This behavior usually last until about 22-23.

[@ProspectivePlans]

FEMALE DIVA!!! HAVE THE A PRIDETASTIC PRIDE MONTH & thank you for making my life more colorful 🌈 with your content

[@senescence57]

A trans version of this convo would be really interesting too. I find trans women to be less likely to participate in queer stan toxicity, but I think there's overlap in the expectation for the (hyper)feminine to shield queer people from cishet patriarchal attack.

[@dejstoney]

My theory is trans women have transition to women. So they don’t feel like they need to worship the standard of women like gay men since they have already become the standard.

[@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024]

They very much do participate at the same level 😭 They’re just less toxic and more intelligent.

[@keilime7]

Female Diva! Pure YES to this entire video. Your content is *everything* I needed and didn’t know I was missing. Keep doing your thang, boo 💜

[@flyfye6458]

You speak very eloquently❤ I thoroughly enjoy your contact. I look forward to your growth as a social commentator

[@roach2420]

14:21 thiss !! you made so many good points omg! cant wait for the next video lol alsoo i came from khadijas video, you did a great job covering bi men! :) female diva ;p

[@no-one00]

These conversations you have are very helpful. I’m gonna be a future superstar and I have been moved with your work.. the future has been touched by you fr.

[@1-of-1]

This video solidified why everyone should subscribe to this channel. ❤ Amazing job, iconic takes, and worth every millisecond of my time. Keep killing the entertainment/social industry we need you Herby.

[@msellaloca]

Yes!

[@artisthonyajta]

Thank you for making this video. It's been so nasty the way some queer men treat female artists who have given so much to the community. The wars between Janet, Madonna, Whitney, Mariah, Beyonce, Ariana, etc have been so nasty and a lot of the time it involves body shaming. A lot of queer men forget that evil though they are queer (and that has so many hardships with it), they're still men who were conditioned in a society that was ingrained to dislike women. As a community, we gotta stop disrespecting women and putting them against each other.

[@essbee1641]

I just wanted to I discovered you through Khadija Mbowe's most recent video and have been bingeing your past videos. Subscribed!

[@mme1vis]

Female Diva! These videos are not long enough! Could listen all day

[@ohladysamantha]

female diva! I'm subscribing between this and your collab with khadija... I'm loving it!

[@WodaCorkaTkaczki]

Female diva, I'm so happy that I found Kadija, and thanks to them i found you Homegirl❤

[@heathermurphy1556]

I don’t understand the overlap appeal of the misogyny against femme-hate dichotomy while idolizing as a stan the female diva experience…why is there hate and joy in the downfall of what a queer man’s dream woman is?

[@noraheist]

I find it really endearing how you describe the para-social relationship of gay men living through women, like a helicopter mom would to their teen daughter who has all the youth she doesn't have anymore a career and power she could have or already has that SHE could no more. Maybe that's why the gays had such an attachment to the Disney villain QUEENS. They saw themselves in them.

[@jackputnam4273]

just found your channel thru khadija’s videos and i’m so excited to watch!!

[@msintutive8694]

Female Divaaaaaa!!!! Sending love from New Orleans hun❤️🥂

[@aniahlonya]

Female Diva ✨ Luv u tew bad Herby 🥰 always a good time when we clock in

[@mrsparkle9048]

Love your vid, I caught you on your cameo over at Khadija's channel. The parasocial analysis around 22:20 was especially good. Keep it up!

[@rayvenrivera8745]

Female diva😁😁😁 love the discussion. Can't wait for next week discussion sounds very intriguing!!!

[@rayvenrivera8745]

Oh I'm A #Lamb

[@CeeMeeZee]

First time here. When you popped that fan, I fluffed my pillow. 😂 Let's see what it do. Leggo!

[@cindyfleur808]

Female Diva!! Loved this dissection. Always putting out amazing content! Giving you your flowers RIGHT NOW🌹🌹🌹 Thank you 💕

[@KingZeusAntonio]

I’m at work, but I’ll be watching once i get home.

[@raneshawilliams5847]

I love conversations like this.❤ Thank you😊

[@traceeford2914]

Love this kind of work. It's thoughtful and thorough. Thank you.

[@missrespectful]

You gagged me in the first 9 minutes 😱

[@alexislove7743]

About the Judy garland thing, I think you have to think about the gay men on that time and the difference in expression and what empowerment was back then

[@18sln]

Female diva! This was a great video and I'm really looking forward to your next one!

[@AllieoreoCraii]

“it just wont work beloved” LMFAOOO PLS u just got a new subscriber 😂 i love it here!

[@AllieoreoCraii]

female divaaaa💋✨💖🫶🏾

[@HoneyGoldJasmine]

Love your content Herb!! Female diva 💖

[@Tthomasia1]

So happy I’ve l found your channel I’m about to binge watch

[@popkultureguru1596]

I definatley agree that gay men can absolutley be misogynistic towards the women we stan, however i do feel like some not all of those critiques are rooted in homophobia for sure.

[@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024]

Explain?

[@popkultureguru1596]

@@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024 i feel like artist particularly straight female artist only want gay men to “shut up and buy the music” but the moment u give an opinion and move out of the Gay Best Friend or Gay Hairstyles archetype and give commentary or thoughts about said artist then all of the sudden “where men in women’s buisness” which to me is a homophobic dog whistle. Cause were we not “men in women’s buisness” when were gagging at ur music videos or buying ur album/ tour tickets. What changed? 🧐

[@MD-zr1wy]

This video was very entertaining, and I absolutely love your enthusiasm, expression and intellect. You are a true entertainer ❤️

[@eronibale2942]

Female diva. Love this convo. So true.

[@kat_the_mouse]

the way I CACKLED when they searched for white versions of the people they were talking about and went straight to Joan Rivers. I'm actually crying a little bit, wow. ps- female diva :)

[@h.r4017]

Oouuuu this is gonna be interesting

[@tonidiane6153]

Sidenote: I love watching you fight with that fan. 😂

[@lilidonna]

female diva. ps. the drama with the iconic fan was pure delight

[@tlg-]

This was a thoroughly excellent video I---

[@LockandKeyHyena]

found you through khadija’s content and you’re so good! instant sub

[@fumanimabilane7366]

I’m early this time 🇿🇦…❤️❤️❤️

[@SatansRoerhat]

I'm so glad to be here 🎉🎉🎉

[@jordanr.1655]

Female divaaaaaa! Loved this video! I love watching your content.

[@notyourfriend8881]

"Dookie booty" took me out!

[@EmauniSimone]

I love your channel you hit topics on the head every time

[@Coco-ug1ni]

Really enjoyed this video and your energy. thinking about joining your Patreon

[@endinek]

female diva 💕💕 thank you this video healed me

[@kelly-annmaddox]

Wow. I was a minute in when I subbed. ❤ The script for this video is immaculate and so thought-provoking.

[@PerryPerfectPerson]

I enjoy putting female pop stars against each other with stats and skills. But between friends. It feels like sports.

[@kerimanasilasila174]

Old Hollywood had the gay incons. Marilyn, Judy, Liza, Audrey, the list goes on. Mariah carey was our last stand for gays and lady gaga!

[@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024]

Mariah Carey and Lady Gaga most certainly weren’t the last. Your nostalgia is delusional and blinding you. 💀

[@kerimanasilasila174]

In my opinion

[@kerimanasilasila174]

​@@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024who's left?

[@UNDERC0NSTRUCTI0N]

“Female diva” great video 😘

[@hazelverse]

new to your channel and about 5 min in and i’m living for your vibe. 💕

[@hazelverse]

i am a FEMALE DIVA 💕🙃

[@beingzombievstheworld]

i''m guilty of this too nicki over everyone

[@Kenny-lz3gh]

The title of this video is just perfect😂

[@lestatsluv317]

I have always looked at it like fem gay men are hated for the exact same reason women are hated. In the patriarchy, if the feminine cannot be controlled in a way that makes straight men feel good, it is hated and society will try to destroy it. We are all hated for our femininity, especially when we will not allow that femininity to be put in the box that straight cis men have built for it. I can't tell you how many gay men I've met at Pro Planned Parenthood protests and then I would see those same gay men when I would go to the statehouse to support protests for things like legalizing marriage equality because many of us see that women and gay men are in this fight against the same system that is trying to destroy us all. As strange as this might sound, when gay men critique or even talk shit about women and even the bodies of women, to me, it does not feel the same as when straight men do things like that. I have never felt like a gay man was coming for a woman's looks in an attempt to literally destroy her....if that makes sense. It's sort of like when a gay man calls a woman a bitch or a cunt, even if they do it in the middle of a literal argument, it does not, in my opinion, come from that place of trying to destroy the woman or control the woman. Like I said, I feel like we are (or should be) on the same side. The reason women and gay men tend to find a bond with one another is because we see the femininity in one another, that same femininity that our society has tried to destroy or control (and in the case of gay men, outright deny it to them) and we see in one another the struggle of the feminine in a patriarchal society. And I agree with you that the overwhelming majority of gay men are doing their best to stand with women and hopefully a majority of women are doing the same for the LGBTQIA+. We love you. ALL of you, ALL of the letters of the alphabet soup (TERFS do not belong with feminists and considering they want to say you can't be a real woman unless you can breed, I feel like they are worse than the majority of straight men these days. They hate trans women? Well, trans women are women and you cannot be a feminist if you hate a whole group of women because they don't have uteruses as if there isn't cis women who don't have uteruses either....so thankfully they are a minority that both women and gay men should just ignore because who cares what they have to say? They open their mouths and ridiculousness flies out. lmao). The only way we will ever restructure our broken system is to stand together and I feel like when gay men and women stand together, truly stand together and stand up for one another, we'll be an unstoppable force. And I am here for it. Female Diva! 😉

[@zaa10017]

"with a sponge and a d*ldo" nah i really laughed out loud

[@gtg488w]

Wow you are so smart and fabulous, I need to read some books or something

[@chanellllllll8190]

I love your channel sooo much, you deserve way more popularity. You have such a beautiful way with words, keep it up! ❤ (dont forget me when you’re at 100k subs)

[@coreyo.conner7897]

19:28 hit me like a frickin 🧱

[@Ilovebrushingmyhorse]

I'm glad an actual GAY MAN is talking about this rather than straight women using the argument with a homophobic undertone. I see it too often.

[@copiouscat]

Very true! Kimberly foster talked about it recently and even though she spoke facts it was hard to digest ngl but Herby ATE, and fed us all!!

[@imParisthoee]

If the message is exactly the same, then your disdain for the messenger is personal bias.

[@Ilovebrushingmyhorse]

@imParisthoee eh... it doesn't feel right when straight women say things about gay men.. for example "its always you gay men coming at us women" feels pretty homophobic to me. it's the same as a gay man speaking for a woman.

[@imParisthoee]

@@Ilovebrushingmyhorse and yet gay men’s favorite past-time is being in women’s business and discussing the lives and times of women. If the topic is the misogyny of gay men, why wouldn’t it be appropriate for women to speak on that? As they would be the ones experiencing said misogyny. That’s like saying gay men don’t have a right to speak about women’s homophobia. Only women should speak on their own homophobic tendencies as it pertains to gay men. Huhh?? Does that make sense?

[@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024]

Yes. Straight women be getting WAY too comfortable in Queer conversations and I can’t help but side eye. Maybe the Lesbians were’t wrong. We need to listen to them more instead of hating!

[@Beccathree]

Female diva omg love you first video I’ve seen and won’t be my last

[@FabalociousDee]

22:40 Sir. SIR. 🤣🤣🤣

[@malaikatyembile5049]

Female Diva purr 💅🏾

[@charnellduncan9932]

Female Diva😛, this video is everything and more!!!

[@moonlitegamer]

Female Diva!!!! Lol. I'm curious because I always felt like queer/gay men are black women's allies true and through although some black women are not in allyship with gay men some of us are and it's a beautiful symbiotic relationship.

[@edwardcalloway2661]

Love to you queen. We appreciate you and are in solidarity 🙏❤

[@moonlitegamer]

@@edwardcalloway2661 💜🩷

[@bmwjourdandunngoddess6024]

I find it extremely beautiful as well. And I LOVEEEE IT!💖

[@pastorprosecco6429]

Female Diva! Made it to the end!

[@obusisayo]

lloooovve this video💕 female diva!❣️

[@fezede]

let’s go to istanbul pride togetherrrre love ya energy ✨💖🫶🏼

[@So-what692]

Great topic! I don’t think this is exclusive to gay men. Cisgender males do it all the time. It’s like a prerequisite before asking a woman out. The gag is, those same women they compare you to, are the same women they will cheat on you with. Secondly, innately, men are competitive. I don’t believe most women are innately competitive. historically we are supporters and nurturers. It’s only when we become male centered, women become competitive. Side note: I’m only 8 mins in. So you may have mentioned all of this in your video….. just giving my thoughts based on the title/thesis.❤

[@PourLaMourDeLargent]

excuse me ma’am, may i ask that you drop the link for the super ICONIC hand fan you’ve brandished in this video pls?

[@tacrewgirl]

Good dissection of this type of misogyny and where it comes from.

[@gaylefranklin]

I believe it’s the Kekes, Nenes, and Samantha’s that appropriated Black queer lingo and not the other way around.

[@KAM-rl6tz]

Female diva. Subscribed!