The Gig Economy Was Always A Scam

[@WisecrackEDU]

Start building your ideal daily routine! The first 100 people who click on the link will get 25% OFF Fabulous Premium ➡ thefab.co/wisecrack2

[@dominickjasso5500]

There's a documentary called happiness at work I watched on curiosity stream that showed worker owned co-ops in Germany that is worth the watch I thought

[@jnnx]

“Fabulous” is another scam. Most of these subscription apps are.

[@17thPrince]

What does the rest of your shirt say?

[@AaronTheHarris]

I mean this is why it's important to invest in high quality public utilities instead of farming out essential things like transportation to the lowest bidder, ie. Uber. If you were in New York, I'm guessing the subway could get you to your destination in the same time or faster than an Uber.

[@handsanitizer2457]

The only good thing about Uber for me was that I could finally get a cab to stop and pick me up. I used to wait for yellow cabs downtown and they would always drive past me half the time. Especially, at night, so while I knew they were a scam, it really helped me a lot.

[@juliegolick]

I'm old enough to remember a time before these apps were even being marketed as "gigs". Like, the REALLY ORIGINAL marketing of AirBnB was "matching up people who happen to not need their house for a few weeks with people who will be in their city for a few weeks and need a place to stay." Uber was "find a driver / passenger who happens to be going in the same direction as you are". Ah, those truly naive, idealistic days...

[@khairulimran1269]

Everyone saw opportunity. Drivers quit their ft job to become uber driver as the pay is lucrative at that time. Hosts buy a lot of houses to turn it into a dedicated homestay. Startups change their business model to expand Total Addressable Market to get higher valuations.

[@yttrium220]

It always starts pretty, and then human nature happens. That’s why we can’t have nice things.

[@yttrium220]

@@khairulimran1269 Just recently I have heard that somewhere in the US entire blocks of houses were bought just to turn them into AirBnBs. It’s a business that pays off. For now. More and more cities that are popular tourist destinations are cracking down on this Wild West of property management. It raises prices of apts for locals where there’s not enough of them and makes life of current tenants of apt buildings often very difficult because of never ending revolving doors of partying strangers. I wonder however, what’s going to happen when this business stops being profitable. Besides aforementioned, the novelty effect slowly wears off, people start noticing that prices are going up, insane cleaning fees are being taken but they still have to clean, they slowly notice that hotels have it better with all the amenities and services for the same fee. Less spying cameras and nosy owners, pictures usually showing reality, at least in better know hotel chains. What’s going to happen with these short-term renting businesses afterwards? People often take loans to start them and selling apts may not always cover the cost of loans especially if they will be trying to save the company for too long before throwing in the towel. I don’t know if the influx of apts for sale will be either sufficient or fast enough to lower property prices enough to allow ordinary people to buy them. Some of the businesses are also renting properties to sub-let them and the rental agreements will not let them just walk away that easily. Investing in a company based on gig-economy is a huge gamble IMHO. One that does not and will never pay off. It’s too volatile and based on exploitation that will tire even the most desperate people sooner or later. I’d buy scooter to deliver food, nothing more and that’s only because I would use this on an everyday basis as well. But car or multiple properties? Hell no.

[@shawniscoolerthanyou]

I remember that as well. If you posted an Airbnb now where it was just your couch pull out or a spare bedroom and there weren't any soaps or coffees laying around, you'd probably get booted off the platform.

[@WhiskerDooz]

Steps to Success: 1. Find market that has potential or is up-and-coming 2. Milk it dry 3. Profit

[@jdnelms62]

As a freelance artist, I was part of the 'Gig Economy' long before it had a label. Even though I have a college degree and experience, most companies don't want to hire me full time. As a result, I'm turning 60, I owe thousands to the IRS and a local hospital for surgery in which I had no insurance due to the horrific cost of buying insurance a middle aged man. Still I consider myself lucky.

[@serwinzzalot9989]

Living free has its price. I'm happy to hear your story. I'm doing gig work after being burned out in white and blue collar jobs. If my bills are paid and I'm able to enjoy life I'm happy. Also, art is essential to living free

[@macysondheim]

60 isn’t middle aged pal. Let’s face it… you’re a dinosaur

[@BrandonAdams1010]

​@@serwinzzalot9989 how's that going

[@prezidenttrump5171]

So you've been a failure all your life and nobody wanted to keep you around. Wow, what a story. You still have 10 years till you're dead.

[@monyoung217]

Amen, Amen @julieglick, I know it is a year later since you posted your message, but I to am trying 60 and truly understand. I have over 40 years in the IT field. I worked for a company for 15 years, helping it to modernize its network infrastructure and saving the company thousands of dollars. Once the higher-ups realized the savings, used the "At Will Work" and fired me; saying they need to reduce labor cost and hired a 20 something at a much lower pay rate and the funny part is when the young man could not update the programs that I had implemented had the nerve to try and contract me back. I also realized that I was falling behind technology-wise being with a company for so long. So since 2004 I have been an IT contractor. I loved it at first. learn and new have hands on technologies

[@cruddyholly]

Lyft driver here, as well as long time wisecrack viewer. Thank you for finally tackling this. I do my best to try and inform my passengers of the reality of working lyft and illustrating how, while i enjoy meeting and helping people, it requires a lot of discipline and is a very lonely job. My biggest complaint has and always will be how little connectivity with other drivers we have. They implemented a “group bonus” a while ago where we were able to communicate with a small group of other drivers and it didnt go well. Going over my taxes, lyft now takes up to 60 percent of what the customer pays. Also, for those thinking we are always picking up drunks, the truth is that a lot of people rely on lyft/uber to get to work in lieu of public transit. Even cities are taking advantage of the gig economy instead of funding their infrastructure.

[@UmmadikTas]

When I worked in the US as an exchange student over a summer, I had to use uber for my commute. I worked 2.5 hours in a day just for the uber. The public transit was shit, my employer from my second work did not give a rats ass how I would get to the dorm that I was staying 1.30 AM in the morning. Starting from the urban design to the gig economy US is just the land of externalized costs. And the exterior is the working people or the nature. What you said hits home.

[@arcticpilotshow4440]

What happen when you get old or disabled, do you get benefits from the company or your government? I live in Iceland and got disabled after more than 30 years of working. I will get benefits (pension) for the rest of my life. Company in Iceland are required to put money in this pension found so people like me can live with dignity if something goes wrong. Does Lyft have pension found?

[@alaskaoalaska]

Sounds like you need to find a new job that doesn't assist in our collective downfall.

[@cruddyholly]

@@alaskaoalaska i have found a new job. it was really the only thing i could find for a while, and honestly when i started it wasnt as bad as it is now. They used to offer a lot more bonuses that were more attainable. The stick has been getting longer and the carrot smaller. Also, I dont think the job itself is to blame, but rather the business model. If i was an employee and could have some agency and connectivity with other drivers, i think we could make it a lot better. The suburban sprawl is to blame for its difficulty making money because people, at least in my area, don’t live and work in the same city.

[@cruddyholly]

@@arcticpilotshow4440 They dont have any kind of disability or pension. Which pension in america is near non-existent nowadays. You are entirely on your own. The only reason I’ve stuck to it for so long tho is because while it’s not extremely profitable, it’s made ends meet until I was mentally able to to work a normal job, which for me worked out as I have other personal issue when it comes to 9-5 jobs. I’ve recently found a job that is close by, that pays well, and for which I am qualified.

[@alexwixom4599]

Anytime someone asks you to be an "Independent Contractor" they're actually asking "Can I legally remove all of your employment rights?"

[@Seth9809]

Case in point, WWE. You get broken bones and can only work for WWE, but they insist you're an "independent contractor".

[@Meleeman011]

Yes please, I like my freedom

[@Jimraynor45]

There are no "employment rights." The only right you have is to get paid for the work you do. Also, many of the so-called benefits you receive as an employee just represent higher costs paid by the employer and don't benefit the worker. You may never use worker compensation, work leave or other benefits, yet you will receive lower pay all the same. As a contractor, you have better control over how you spend the pay you get. Many of these gig workers often lack proper insurance for their vehicles, which if they were working as an employee, they would have to. There is a reason why food delivery app drivers often get paid more per delivery than say, a pizza delivery driver working for a company. Also, most people who start businesses, depending upon the industry, often start as "independent contractors." It's a stepping stone towards greater success, that a normal employee will lack.

[@Seth9809]

@@Jimraynor45 >Be you >Make the same talking points used during the guided age >Add some talking points from the Robber Baron days >Watch a video where its made clear that gig workers are paid shit >Insist they make more money

[@Just_My_Reviews]

☝️

[@OdinzSun]

Let’s not forget “bugs” in the apps that force workers to jump through hoops or rush picking up jobs. Uber normally gives a 10-15 second window to review a trip offer, and accept or decline it. Lately my app has been “bugging” out and giving me anywhere from 2-3 seconds to respond, essentially forcing me to auto accept rides without reviewing if I actually want to take them or not, and if I don’t auto accept in that small window then I’m punished on my acceptance rate. Sounds more like a feature that can be brushed off as a “bug”. Too easy to code something like that in and until these companies are forced to make their code entirely public there’s no way to rule out shady practices like this.

[@DaweSMF]

As someone who actually knows something about coding, the fact that some script/code is "simple" or "easy to code", doesnt mean it cant break or bug out. I dont think this is standalone script, it works in some wider enviroment and depends on data from other sources and it needs to comunicate with it, any change can break it, doesnt need to but can. I dont say they dont do something like that, but your argument about being easy to code is nonsense. For example2, i made simple script that does simple things for me and collegues - it auto fills when we are in work, how long, when we have vaccation and few other things. If for some reason the system responsible for reading our cards dosnt work proprerly, this scrip will make just random mess or end up with error since the imputs are not what it expects.

[@OdinzSun]

@@DaweSMF so are you saying it’s possible for them to code this but it just wouldn’t be “easy”? I too know a little about coding, really just enough to know I really don’t know shit, but my point was that it’s possible to purposely code a function and then obfuscate it and claim it’s a bug when you run it.

[@solarshado]

@@DaweSMF You seems a bit (too) caught up on the "easy to code" bit. Sure, it could be a legit bug in a complex system, but it would be extremely easy to just... intentionally use a shorter timer under some arbitrary circumstances. IMO the best point OP made was at the end: without the code being public, there's no way to know for sure.

[@DaweSMF]

@@OdinzSun No i say easy code doesnt mean it cant be bugy - that seemed to be your idea, if its simple it cant be bugy. As i said they can do something like that. But i dont know anything about their system or the company itself.

[@Playingwithproxies]

@@solarshado probably is Uber trying to work to make sure the customers “riders” have the best experience and not the drivers. If the customers are low rated ones they probably already got denied a few times and then Uber pushed it out with 2-3 second window to make sure some rider picked it up.

[@mauricehopes9105]

The gig economy always seemed like a supplement to traditional work, not a replacement. Like you drive for uber a few hours after work a few days a week for some extra money. The gig economy is a terrible replacement for a regular job. The fact that soo many people are using gig employment as their primary job signals that something is wrong. It seems like every year there are fewer and fewer jobs that pay a living wage. Eventually that could lead to massive societal problems and the collapse of major parts of the economy if a solution isn't found.

[@TIMEtoRIDE900]

If an activity is worth doing part time to supplement a "regular" job then it's also worth doing full time.

[@kintanarow6556]

You hit it right on the head, Maurice. Gigs are not full-time commitments. If you're going to go full-time doing gigs, then call them projects and become a contractor who takes up projects, not little gigs. They last longer. They require you become a disciplined professional, build a brand, a system, a practice, a business. They require you GROW UP and stop thinking and acting like an amateur. Either turn pro or get a full-time job somewhere. Gig "economy" is for lunch money, not for making a living. Professional contracting or a full-time job is for making a living. And indeed the problem is that in a service-based economy, since it's consumer-driven, not production-driven, you can easily become stagnant when consumption drops as in a recession. Gigs are not going to fix that.

[@jamesbaxter222]

You all are missing the point that Uber purposefully came in to replace full-time taxi drivers with part-time contractors. Taxi driving was a full-time job before Uber came along with artificially lowered prices to monopolize the space.

[@jamesbaxter222]

@@kintanarow6556 You are wrong. Taxi driving was a full time job before Uber came along flouted government regulation and artificially lowered prices using venture capital.

[@TIMEtoRIDE900]

@@jamesbaxter222 I'd love to have heard the private meeting when Uber execs first realized that self-driving cars were just Elon Musk hype ! All those plans hinged on a technology that is as yet not fully developed.

[@redrighthandarts]

i was working at qualitest pharmaceuticals and we had a union scare so they shut down production for 2 days to hold meetings about how bad unions are. i waited till the end of the meetings to ask a question. how many people in this room have worked for unions. i already knew what was going to happen. the management team all raised their hands and a half dozen employees too. i asked would anyone like to say what union they worked for, and the employees hands went down. i said ok so the only people that have worked in unions are the only ones that have been able to work their way into a management position and now you same people are the only ones that don't want a union here, and you think we are going to just trust you at your word they they are bad, when you are literally the living example of how they aren't? the rest of my short stay there was pretty bad after that... but my point stands.

[@khairulimran1269]

No your point does not stand. It's non sequitur fallacy. Just bcs they used to work for unions, doesn't mean that union is the reason of them getting where they are right now.

[@redrighthandarts]

@@khairulimran1269 spoken like a true middle manager...

[@SurprisinglyDeep]

@@khairulimran1269The unions did not harm their careers though. The unions probably singificantly helped their careers, since the unions helped stabilise their employment and ensure they got good wages while working their way to the top of the company.

[@Longmachao]

sound like a made up story, at leat the meeting part anyway.

[@jacobstar2631]

@@SurprisinglyDeep you are making assumptions about unions and how they helped or not helped this person. So therefore you cannot use the example provided as proof that unions help. What I do not like is being forced to join a union or not get hired. Why should I pay a portion of my hard earned salary to a bunch of people who might not hold my interests at heart? It to mention the political donations that might go to parties I am not aligned with. So no unions should not be mandatory but they should also be around for those who want to join. But the OP points does not stand and maybe they should come with a better argument just like You

[@CLObandit]

As a former gig economy worker, this really helped me understand myself a little more. I was doing gig work and training to be a professional actor, but slowly I found myself doing gig work more and more until I was too exhausted to train. After that, I had trouble settling back into a "regular job" and feel like I'm far behind my peers... ALL because I thought gig work was beneficial. Come to find out, like most things, it's so corrupt and exploitative.

[@AdrianERosales]

I'm an actor and opera singer. Driving for Lyft and Uber was so exhausting and detrimental to my mental, physical, and vocal health so I bit the bullet and got into programming. I don't regret it, although the mental strain and frustration is no joke when coding.

[@SurprisinglyDeep]

With respect, why didn't you just cut down on all the uber work you were doing?

[@CLObandit]

@@SurprisinglyDeep No that's a fair question. I didn't have a ton of financial literacy, honestly. I had racked up more bills and debt without knowledge of how quickly things can pile up. This pushed me towards driving more often to make more money. Driving more often put more miles on my car and made maintainging it very expensive. I started to net less and less profit the more I drove. Ironically trying to make more money was the reason I was losing money. It was a lesson for me in how gig work does trap people when it's thair main source of income. Thanks for asking! Hope this helped explain.

[@Bonanzaking]

@@CLObandit out of curiosity what vehicle were you using that ate up so much maintenance costs? With car ownership in general I’m generally taken aback a bit what people spend to maintain a car, largely because people outsource things a non skilled person can do themselves such as change oil and pay half what it costs to have someone do it for them. In regards to actual vehicles, I’ve never really heard complaints from people driving Toyota Priuses. Most other vehicles, yep. You also do see uber vehicles driving where it just doesn’t make sense with the MPG.

[@CLObandit]

@@Bonanzaking it was a Toyota Corolla and I think I needed so much maintenance because I was driving so much. I’ve had my car for 6 years and it has 200k miles on it. The national average is 14k miles a year. 84k in six years. I’m more than double that so my car essentially has 12 years of damage done to it. Not even the most economical cars are exempt from the maintenance costs unfortunately.

[@ohnoourtableitsbroken6527]

think you missed the part where union membership decline wasn't a spontaneous process in the US, there was immense effort put into union busting campaigns from the mid century until now by the ruling elite, meaning big business aided by politicians. The 40s saw the highest rate of union membership rate to date but that was a very hard won battle where union leadership and workers faced relentless opposition.

[@sizor3ds]

Also, the invention of the shipping container and ease of global shipping made exporting jobs way easier than compensating workers

[@maxpowers1428]

Unions have not done themselves any favor either by having poor PR and getting political for ideas that their members don't support. Lots of people think corrupt leaders fill their top.

[@aramondehasashi3324]

@@maxpowers1428 Also some unions are corrupt and in cahoots with the employer. They take your union dues but then don't fight for you.

[@Jimraynor45]

Unions are great for unions, bad for everyone else. Unions are not an asset to a economy, they are a burden that has to be paid for.

[@ohnoourtableitsbroken6527]

@@Jimraynor45 you're a burden that has to be paid for

[@MacArawn]

Having prepared taxes professionally for many years, I have done many returns for people working in the gig economy. I think the best average monthly income I saw from an Uber or Lyft driver was about $500 after taxes and expenses. At least 2/3 of them were actually loosing money on their tax return when adding in depreciation on the car.

[@williampowell3378]

Ugh

[@Oletechiegirl]

Not alway true. I currently work in the mortgage industry and have seen living wages, even income better than many with traditional jobs.

[@1MoreTurn]

@@Oletechiegirl So you proved his point of 2/3 loosing money (this implies 1/3 makes money). Overall a shitty situation overall for gig workers.

[@Jimraynor45]

Working for Uber is like selling your car for money, but slowly over time.

[@Halcon_Sierreno]

Plus you have to be your own mechanic or hire one.

[@StephenLeGresley]

The point of the "gig economy" was for businesses to be able to pay workers less and have no commitment to them long term. It was marketed to workers as the "freedom" to move from one job to the other without constraint and with more flexibility. But what it ultimately led to was workers being exploited and having no recourse for protection like a more stable standard job would provide. People in the gig economy have no job security, very little in the way of benefits and next to no legal protections. It's just another way for companies to use people as little more than drones.

[@Nostripe361]

The gig economy might have worked if there were more government protections to protect the workers. But good luck getting meaningful progressive change in a place where profits can be made.

[@StephenLeGresley]

@@Nostripe361 The problem is that the extremist form of capitalism in the US will ultimately look to exploit workers and oppose any protection they could have. Its why people have given up on minimum wage jobs, they don't make enough to live on and so theres no reason for people to want to work them. This is why young people have turned to social media platforms like TikTok and Onlyfans and so on to get money and why seeing such an increase in shoplifting and online scams. People are turning towards any avenue they can to make enough to live on. The US has been warned for decades that their economic model is unsustainable and now we're seeing that collapse start to happen. People don't want to work at a McDonalds because they get overworked and treated like crap all for pay they can't live on.

[@c87kim]

Employees also have to clock in and work a certain amount of time and you’re gonna be under a manager. Have you guys even talked to your Uber drivers? They don’t want a boss lol it’s just a few outspoken guys who try to speak for everyone else

[@Nostripe361]

@@StephenLeGresley I actually agree. I’m an American and support a form of capitalism but I hate this growing cyberpunkist hypercapitalism that has taken root in the US. I was in high school in 2008 where these massive banks and corporations brought the US economy to its knees and only watched as these parasites, to quote Andrew Ryan, not only get away with it but grow even stronger as every market gets monopolized by google, Disney, and Amazon. I seriously think the collapse of the US is going to come from a financial collapse; just like the Soviet Union.

[@StephenLeGresley]

@@Nostripe361 And the sad part is. A degree of socialism could actually save them. That's why Canada has never had a financial collapse. Even in 2008 they fared so much better because they have socialist stop gaps in place to keep their economy from ever truly going into the ground. Same with Finland. Socialism and Capitalism can exist side by side and balance each other out.

[@bogdan19992]

Sadly, I think we will gonna get apped to death. A small example from my personal work related experience: For starters, I struggled to get out of contracted company work and get a position based on an permanent type contract but even with all that covered, the pay is not on par with the money required to live a comfortable life. I took the decision to enter the gig economy with a 4 hour part time job as a currier via bike. 1 week I worked in that environment, through freezing temperatures and snow, at the end of the week the speculated profits were very low compared with the required work. The kicker is... from that speculated profits mentioned by the app, a 80% mark up was applied masked as taxes paid to the government and for the privilege to collaborate with the sub-company that I signed a contract with, the remainder of my share was just 20%. At the end of the week, even if I used a bike, I ended up at a net loss by just buying a cup of cheap coffee from vending machines and a bottle of water every day. I burned double the money I ended up with. And don't even get me started if something happens with the transported goods, if the order is damaged or the client cancels the order before arrival, said order is payed out of your own pocket. ... Even Death Stranding presented a more optimistic view regarding currier work and I wish I was joking.

[@leftifornian2066]

Being a serf ain’t so bad when you get paid in vodka bro

[@oceanwater6887]

Our working standards are evolving, just backwards. Soon companies will pay workers with digital scrip and pay for your room and board. But it’ll be done through an app so it won’t be seen as cruel and unlawful like company towns 100 years ago.

[@alexanderbrown5707]

Amazon is talking about building a company town 😭

[@SenorTucano]

And you’ll have to buy what you need from the company store

[@NEILLAXNU8]

THIS IS THE FUTURE. I said this 3 months ago as META was coming on the scene. I’m writing it out to try and be a part of the business maneuver. I encourage you to do the same if you can fit yourself into the process/service. Blessin’s On Blessin’s.

[@buildamillionbridges6153]

You hit the nail on the head. We’re going backwards.

[@ssa6227]

The whole world is going back it seems. It's just that after here going back will cost.

[@bloodrain980]

The "socializing risk while privatizing returns" tidbit was especially interesting in it's implications. It seems to extend to the start-up ideal, where direct compensation is replaced by promises of future returns on (non-executive) shares, while the reality is that most venture capital companies fail and those promises remain unfulfilled. More co-op business structures plz.

[@Dagnylokibarn]

As a disabled person I can’t afford wildly increasing costs but grocery delivery is so important to me. Just make a real price and im pretty sure a lot of people will pay it. One of the most important things you learn as a disabled person is spending more to live better is not a crime.

[@morganburt2565]

i’m curious, what did you do before grocery delivery services? or were they available to you before the general public? i’ve only seen these services pop up a couple years ago, but, ya know, i wasn’t paying that much attention

[@Dagnylokibarn]

@@morganburt2565 actually, mostly I ate pizza or subway cause it was right next to my house. Taking the bus to get groceries is fine, plenty of people have to do it, but it’s really hard on me and they changed the rules on the bus system so that the front seats are only supposed to be for disabled and seniors instead of that they have to be. Legally they couldn’t make people give up seats any more. So I have to wait until family can take me or take the bus there and a taxi home like a lot of people who can’t afford a car. If you’re lucky you get a caregiver or social worker who can take you places, but those programs have long wait times and once you age out of them or use up all your hours you just get cut off

[@nuance9000]

They could just add better transparency into how the pricing is calculated and structured. Like, if uber/lyft actually provided a functional api, plenty of developers would make an app that charts what the fees cost. In that way, a user could order when the fees are low, not just when it's convenient. tldr; I'm calling the software developers of these companies lazy and anti-consumer/anti-opensource

[@myhandlewastakenandIgaveup]

@@nuance9000 It’s not the software developers. It is not in Uber / Lyft’s best interest for the rider to see the actual fees and ride when they are less. The developers could write the code all day long but it would simply be thrown out…

[@KIXWASHERE]

I agree, I also share your pain! If it wasn't for family I'd likey starve

[@hamyield]

I own 2 micro companies with some former colleagues. I did my stint of working for a massive company, and they ratcheted up the qualifications requirements on me while not paying me properly, and then when I used my own time and resources to get said qualifications I wasn't given an appropriate promotion that had already been discussed. My boss at the time (who was furious with the company) told me to set up as an external supplier instead, and this worked a treat. Suddenly I took work on my terms, but unlike gig workers - I myself got to dictate the price. It's been amazing and I would advocate it to everyone: if you have skills your companies want and you don't like the terms on which you are employed, make a niche for yourself and then go it alone. Other clients will soon follow. There's a risk, but by setting your own prices you can make sure you reap the appropriate reward. When I talk to people in the pub about it, I compare it to the beer industry. Here in the UK, real ale was killed off in the 70s by lager, a product which was better in terms of both reliability and shelf life. Consumers flocked to it because it was consistent. Over time these bigger companies were acquired by 4 who all took part in a massive chase to the bottom, and by the 90s they were selling beer at a loss just to compete for market share. Then started the Campaign for Real Ale. Small brewers were given tax incentives to set up small scale operations making more traditional beers, but with the benefits of modern technology to improve consistency. Roll forwards 30 years and consumers are now spoiled with choice when it comes to real ale, and small brewers take a sizeable proportion of the available market share at the taps. My old employer was the pub, the lager was the remnants of the old employees once the brain had been drained by people leaving, and the real ale is what happens when those with an expertise decide to set up as independent companies (microbreweries) offering services that the parent company struggles with or didn't want to invest in. When it's on offer, the client often wants the real ale, not the lager - and the pub has no option but to do a deal with the microbreweries in order to keep their customers happy and coming back for more ;)

[@D.Jay.]

Uber takes such a huge cut of the fee. The only way they are "struggling" is by paying the "leadership" to much and making bad faith investments.

[@TheOneTrueAnthemis]

This is a feature of capitalism, not a bug.

[@joemoorhouse276]

Wasting tons of money pretending to be a self driving car company etc

[@chris0000924]

Take into account of taxes and the fact that their in so many markets yeah I can see their expenses outstripping any "profit"

[@undeadblizzard]

If only we had better public transportation and cities were built for humans and hamsters not cars and dogs. Cat are cool dogs are a unfinished cat.

[@chris0000924]

@@undeadblizzard Most population doesn't live in city so it doesn't make sense financial wise

[@VibeBlind]

Calling them "contract workers" is a really loose definition considering Uber actively withholds information as punishment for refusing to accept bad rides and gives a hard 5 sec time limit to review the "contract"

[@catdogmousecheese]

Actually, that has more to do with the fact if Uber had "employees" they'd be entitled to things like a minimum wage; maternity leave; workers compensation for injuries; etc., but "contractors" don't have those rights.

[@scottgrindrod]

If someone else is setting the price of your labor, they shouldn't be allowed to classify you as an independent contractor to save money.

[@CyberTranceHero69]

Freelancers

[@jonny-b4954]

@@scottgrindrod Well.... not across the board. That would destroy the contractor/sub-contractor relationship that works in construction. Is pretty fundamental to having dozens of skilled trades that all need to come together. You couldn't build a company and keep employees for all trades needed to build a single house, short of being a billion dollar company. Or jack of all trades. Though, in construction the sub actually has the power to say "nah, not enough pay" because they are invested (truck, tools, license, insurance, helper etc.) and have a marketable skill in demand etc. There's negotiation there and relationships are built.

[@scottgrindrod]

@@jonny-b4954 notice you said the magic words, "they can negotiate their own price". If they're allowed to do that, then they are truly independent contractors. If you are not allowed to set your own prices, then you are mis-classified as an independent contractor so your employer can save money.

[@WillCoddington]

Wisecrack: makes video on the inherent scam of the gig economy also Wisecrack: takes sponsorship from Uber for life coaching

[@heitorpedrodegodoi5646]

CAPETALISM!!!

[@Mate.Norbert]

You still watch the sponsor segment? Did your right cursor button broke?

[@sebastianmunozrubilar7184]

@@Mate.Norbert In order to support the channel, you should watch the ads

[@SerifSansSerif]

@@sebastianmunozrubilar7184 KZbin is a scam. Remember, KZbin used to be about uploading things for fun. Mostly cat videos. Then came sponsors and ads (which YT makes a ludicrous amount compared to what they pay out), and people started thinking it a viable career. Then when the vast majority of indie KZbinrs found that the ads didn't pay enough, patreon came along and grifted a portion of the top of viewers "donations", and KZbinrs started pushing it since e-begging became more profitable than legit work. Now KZbin Facebook, instagram, etc. All have their own integrated donations button cause there's nothing like taking 10% off the top of an e-beggar's collections.

[@Mate.Norbert]

@@sebastianmunozrubilar7184 I'm already paying for KZbin Premium specifically to avoid the ads, so I'm not sorry when I skip them.

[@randomcdude4430]

"Fun" fact, this practice has also pervaded the public sector. While seasonal positions have always been a thing in conservation land management, but it has gotten out of hand. Even scientists and program managers/coordinators are now hired as "seasonal" gig workers with none of the benefits afforded full timers and often explicitly excluded from them. I worked 3 "seasons" (9 mos of every year for 3 years) as an vegetation management scientist for a state land management agency. I collected, managed, processed, interpreted, and communicated vegetation population data for an entire state. I managed a field crew, developed relationships, developed Geographic Information System data processing models, built GIS information management structures and processes, and developed multi year management plans for each management unit surveyed. Not every unit was surveyed each year. I developed a new way to visualize weed distributions at a management unit. I presented at professional meeting representing the state organization just like my full time counter parts. I had full time colleagues that did essentially the same job as me just on a different land classification type or a different ecosystem. All of this basically from scratch as the previous seasonal had no way to transmit the institutional knowledge that was imperative to the position. Everything I developed has likely fallen apart after I left after my final season. I made an hourly wage sure, but it was far below what the specialized skills required for the job were worth. I once saw a sign advertising a pay range which bracketed my wage at a car wash. I could make the same pay with less required travel at a car wash. One of my field techs saw a sign at a Subway sandwich shop hiring people starting at their wage. I was not the only gig/seasonal scientist coordinating a long term legally required program (some state required, some federally). The archeologist, the ornithologist, the and several others were also on a seasonal gig workers viewed as disposable and interchangeable. Required to create training materials and detailed documentation as we went so that someone else could pick up and do our job if we didn't return the following season (which was preferred and encouraged). We crammed 12 mos of work into 9 and then scrambled to get rolling again the next "season". There was zero negotiating power or ability to improve things seeing as if you made too many waves they could just hire someone else the following year. The gig economy mentality with all it's "cost savings" (read exploitation) is just too tempting for the higher ups and state legislatures responsible for such programs. I heard it justified so often as "it is a great experience/resume builder" (for what other position with such specialized qualifications?) or "young people love the freedom of seasonal work!" (nevermind that many of us had MS or PhDs and were in our 30s or older some with children). "But we GOT to do what we love and see such beautiful places... while working 10-12 hour days outside in the dead of summer for 40+ hours a week for carwash or sandwich "artist" pay.....🤮" And that is how gig economy ideology scorched my soul and made me the jaded former conservation worker/public servant I am today. I wanted to do my part to help conserve nature for the benefit of every one, but now I just watch it deteriorate with the knowledge that it was just too costly to manage it well. Remember, follow your dreams kids and maybe one day you too can watch them decay into something nightmarish and soul crushing.

[@samaeltheundying]

As a combat medic who now does social work, this was a chilling read.

[@rebeccaw1674]

Horrifying how accurate this is.

[@DepressedHandsomeSpaceCop]

Yup, I used to do upland vegetation installation and management for naturalized stormwater retention ponds. Was on a contract for the first year, during which I managed millions of dollars worth of construction, and personally executed and supervised all kinds of field work, from weed control to erosion protection and repair to wetland vegetation collection to site surveying to even migratory bird control (!). Second year, was still offered a contract, not permanent full-time status, and was told that "this was normal." I don't care if it's normal, it's not good. So I walked away. This is late-stage capitalism. Capitalism destroys all of our natural connections to things like our families, our friends, the land around us, to harmonious and satisfying ways of living, and replaces them with... nothing. The company offers you no loyalty, no training, no growth, no camaraderie, nothing we would consider recognizably human. It takes and does not give. All you are offered is the chance to perform a menial task for a fraction of the value your work generates, with the largest slice going to some business school graduate asshole in management, or some faceless investor, who probably already has too much money. "Gigs" being touted as a meaningful way to spend one's finite time on this earth is the end point of this process: not only is your work menial, not only are you a contractor, but the contracts you are offered have no room for negotiation, and are negotiated with every gig you take, so that your feeling of powerlessness is all the greater. Burn it all down, I say.

[@ChrisSudlik]

I can't tell you how overjoyed I am, how absolutely, positively excellent it feels to see wisecrack no longer fleeing from economic considerations and taking these issues head on.

[@ramontavaresdacruz2256]

"We're increasingly being taught to expect less and less from our employers", funny part about this is the fact most of us already didn't expect anything from them for decades now

[@GreatCharade]

Doctor of Pharmacy here... I've lived some of this transition. I was a 'temporary' employee working full time but without benefits at my last position. I survived the cuts one year and lost the second. Cuts are solely based on speed, quality, and volume of work. We were paid less, given mandatory OT, and often we had shifts cut day-of. Since then I managed to get a contract to hire job at another company... But I still don't have PTO and the I won't know if the company will choose to hire me for another few months. Still somehow better than retail... But still, not great for people.

[@blurglebox]

oh yeah pharmacy is in a world of hurt. Was only a tech, but that whole field burned me out something fierce, and I can't see myself going back

[@rubyparchment5523]

A friend in Pakistan has your degree, wants to come to US. Is your degree from the US or elsewhere?

[@GreatCharade]

@@rubyparchment5523 I got my degree in the U. S.... It can be very difficult to become a pharmacist in the U. S. even with a degree from another country. An Egyptian friend of mine had a similar problem and worked as a technician while he tried to get the certification he needed. I wish your friend luck.

[@robviviano8067]

Terrifying fact: many of the doctors you interact with in on hospital are actually working on a gig economy. Particularly, emergency medicine, radiology, and anesthesia

[@pysq8]

💯

[@RicardoSantos-oz3uj]

Terrifying indeed.

[@camoakes976]

I'm reminded of a discussion around actors and musicians, the OG gig-based career. When comparing them to standard employment, it's a choice between "the illusion of stability" with traditional jobs or "the illusion of flexibility" with acting. Originally that meant the reality of work was never that simple. Sometimes you need to take gigs you don't really want in order to pay the bills, and just because you're fully employed doesn't mean that things could change, leaving you without work, and not necessarily because it was your employer's fault. These "new wave" gig careers really take it to the next level, though. Through a combination of venture capital, believing their own hype, being created as a gig based system (as opposed to it developing out of the circumstances), and probably more factors I can't immediately identify, they've dug a hole they can't get it of.

[@mueffe1357]

You need to understand, those actors and musicians works under talents agencies. They usually have contracts. Gig-economy doesn't have contracts like them. Not sure if we should call that gig the same as this gig tho. In those industry also have their own problems too like exploitations, loopsided contracts and none/low pay bc you're not famous.

[@italycommon]

The gig economy is flawed because it's mostly low or unskilled labor where you can be competed against by anyone, and someone is always willing to take less to do what you do.

[@apexscape]

more bc of right-to-work laws, 1099, silo-ing workers, union busting etc....basically policies created by or lobbied by corporations / apps. it was laid out in the video

[@italycommon]

@@apexscape all that is fine, but it doesn't get to the core issue of low level of entry. When your job is short distance driving and delivery, you're competing anyone with a mode of transportation.

[@suad01]

And that labor pool now includes the global south as migrants are incentived to move to our countries on the back of gig economy jobs

[@eddenoy321]

@@apexscape All brought to you under the agenda of the Republican neo-con greed.

[@derektafoya1152]

You made a video on my entire 2 years of working with DoorDash . You're not wrong on any of what you said, it was entirely brutal

[@TaraVon]

DoorDash is absolutely the worse!

[@chesterwilberforce9832]

I worked in IT for the better part of 25 years. What was a stable way to make a permanent income with benefits started going to hell about 1990 when "outsourcing" to India started catching on. But even then, you could make good money at 1 and 2 year contracts, which, in IT might as well be considered permanent work as the company is probably going to last no longer than two years. (I've worked for 5 tech companies that no long exist.) People forget what the headlines were in 2001; "Tech Bubble Bursts". In less than 2 years almost a half million tech jobs just vanished. Some of them overseas but many of them just whole companies going under. Still, I was able to limp along until 2008, when the world's economy almost collapsed. The last 2 years I worked in IT, I spent about 14 months looking for work. The gig economy has destroyed me, losing a house, all of my investments, 401ks. I"m now old enough to get social security but I work for a church for 15 dollars an hour, about 1/5th of my contract rate. BUT..... I get a check every two weeks. The gig economy will make sense when income is matched to expenses. Imagine you only worked 9 months last year, but only had to make 9 mortgage payments. I have all my life savings - about 3500 bucks - in a cookie tin above my refrigerator. This has been a nightmare. Retirement? I will have to ask for a half day off for my funeral.

[@mikelamay7875]

and here I was thinking IT works made big bank....

[@p5eudo883]

@@mikelamay7875 Some do. Many don't. I make a higher hourly rate at my part-time union job than a lot of IT workers make. But if you're a highly skilled IT worker and really put in the effort, as in multiple certifications, years of experience, etc., you can make six figures. Just know that most don't.

[@uncledubpowermetal]

Their organizational structure and payout plans sound like the promises and guarantees of MLMs/Pyramid Schemes.

[@isaac1670]

All the gig economy has done is digitized exploitation. The part that gets me is that despite the exploitative nature of these apps, these apps continue to hemorrhage money. The model doesn't work.

[@naddarr1]

It really is amazing how much of a lose lose situation it is for everyone. Exploitation without even turning a profit. We really are seeing capitalism fall apart around us.

[@isaac1670]

@@naddarr1 Exactly right. A few years ago a CEO "joined in" on the conversation of people talking about stressful jobs. He mentioned that CEOs have to deal with so much pressure that sometimes they're reduced to tears. I remember thinking, if the CEOs are being beat down by their expectations then corporations are nothing but misery factories for everyone involved.

[@naddarr1]

@@isaac1670 They really are. Capitalism is a beast that just consumes everyone. Yes some people have better lives materially then others but they are just as beaten down emotionally. They truly are. One my pivot points was actually meeting my now father in law. He is very high up in a hotel company. Only the owners and 1 of their friends that got the job off of a poker bet are above him in a national company. He's got a nice house with an indoor pool and 40 acres to spread his legs and the guy is absolutely defeated and miserable. He has the same complaints that everyone I've ever worked at has about his job. He actually just bought a bar last year and is working very hard at both his job and the bar so he can one day soon quit his job and just run the bar. This is actually the 1st time I've seen him really excited about the future and it's about one day quiting his high paying white collar job. This economic system we have created truly has morphed into something horrendous that ruins everyone. If we all just had a few drinks and talked about it we'd realize that even those at the top are being emotionally ruined by it.

[@davidallen8891]

The only way these apps can work if they have constant influx of new workers. People are doing the math and finding they aren't really making much money. Basically the apps have a recruitment problem caused by their terrible worker compensation model. My uncle made ends meet after his regular job as a taxi driver - if he had to use his own car I doubt he would have done it at all.

[@Seth9809]

@@isaac1670 There was a guy who worked at Google who got fired for being "sexist". He wrote a paper that said the 60-90 hours of work a CEO does a week is so stressful, that only beings obsessed with status and power would go after it, rather then something else that would make them happy. His paper implied that women weren't CEOs, because they deliberately didn't want to choose misery, but men were obsessed with their image.

[@christophercomtois7175]

204 million from companies that don’t make a profit to keep from having to give benefits to their workers. I am still searching my head

[@Leopoldshark]

But treating workers as humans will cost 205 million dollars and we can't have that

[@christophercomtois7175]

@@Leopoldshark I know your making a point but it is sad we are making jokes about this.

[@BruceSteever]

Capitalism at work.

[@GuitarsRgood7]

I did Lyft for 2 months while looking for a new job after being laid off. If I had just taken unemployment, I probably would have made more money, and would have had 8,000 less miles added to my car. Between gas, car repairs, oil changes, hours of time lost waiting for passengers; I took a big loss. Then there was taxes which cost me another $1,000. The only benefit was for me to practice talking to people, since I'm introverted.

[@madds5281]

I’m conflicted about the gig economy. On the one hand, it’s an alternative to the 9-5 model. I’m a hard worker but I can’t be consistent. I can be the best employee for 3 months, then the worst for 1 month and I’ve lost a few jobs because of this. Plus gig economy principals are great for when companies need projects done and creating long term employment positions would be worse for everyone. The problem is that’s not what the gig economy is, it’s a scam. You only make money during peak hours, so you’ve got to be on a schedule. Even then you never make enough to justify skipping a day so you’ve got to be consistent. You’re never forced to do anything but the consequences of skipping a job or messing up or getting a bad review are severe and way more impactful than traditional employment that it’s basically not allowed. That was at least my experience with door dash. In the end, for all the hours I put in and even before the gas price jump, I was losing money on car and phone maintenance required just to do the job. I am wishful that a more flexible employment model becomes viable, but as it is now, it’s just a matter of time before it crashes and burns.

[@Chasing-the-outdoors]

The biggest issue I constantly think about: in America people are so desperate, companies like Uber can exist. Switzerland made Uber full time workers with benefits. It’s not easy to get an Uber there in my experience, but people likely have better job options too.

[@tragicallyhypno3158]

Has anyone else ever noticed how whenever analysts like Louis Hyman are critiquing things like the gig economy and they get to the end of their analysis, having identified how these structures erode labour rights and worker pay, they somehow conclude that more decentralization will magically produce a system where things are more equitable? The gig economy pickpocketed thousands of workers and gave that money to venture capitalists, but trust us! This time it'll be different 😉🤨

[@billmozart7288]

Those economics will trickle down to us any day now!

[@hermaeusmora2945]

1) That's fart-huffing academics for you. They never leave the University and never interact with the real world. 2) That's critics for you. Critics NEVER have an alternative, their entire existence rests on criticizing others, and it's super easy so it's no wonder people do it. The media...based solely on criticizing people and politicians. Pundits? The same. Late night "comedians"...the same. "Alternative media"...the same.

[@redrighthandarts]

im old enough to remember windows 95... then 98... then millennium... i know better than to trust anyone that says. this time we got it right...

[@thabanentshangase]

@LTNetjak wow, spoken like someone that has either never gone out into the real world or you've had a silver spoon feeding you your whole life. Either way, anyone that comes from less-than-favourable circumstances will tell you that everything you just said is pure nonsense that sounds like something you were paid to share.

[@Sparticulous]

@@thabanentshangase thank you

[@zeliavoss]

Auto insurance companies are exploiting gig economy apps, too. I was just hit by someone who was 'online' on Instacart and her insurance company weaseled out of covering the accident because the app was online. She didn't have an active order, she was just waiting for one. Even though everyone agreed she was at fault, I had to pay my deductible rather than her insurance company, which is what would've happened otherwise. Just another small way all this crap affects everyone.

[@AndromedaCeline]

Corporations “…socialize risk and privatize return.” Sums up Reaganomics beautifully.

[@dan3802]

Great video as always, Wisecrack! I used to be a software developer for Uber, and I ultimately quit because of massive ethical issues. In addition to everything mentioned here, one on the main ways that Uber is staying afloat is by buying out other companies that are already profitable in similar spaces. I actually ended up working for them because of one of these mergers. This also allowed Uber to crush any competitors in those spaces that were actually coming up with new innovations. There were so many other issues as well, like the CEO constantly bragging about Prop 22, other higher-ups downplaying the severity of COVID, several trans co-workers were either demoted or laid off, etc.

[@malavikanallani6848]

what are you doing now? what language/application do you work with?

[@Korvorkian1]

Been watching this happen more and more in the IT industry over the last decade. So many places are quick to pull the trigger on contracting out more and more work, making it harder for entry level IT positions to get filled, off shoring software development and support to places where people are taught to answer off a script instead of thinking outside the box to fix things.

[@kenehnsklp5530]

Socialise risk, privatise returns. And when it doesnt work, ask the government to bail out

[@ThePageTurnerPT]

I HIGHLY doubt that a majority amount of labor will be shifted to independent contractors simply because of reliability. A contractor/gig worker isnt as reliable to show up to a job site regularly as a full-time employee. This is especially important for manufacturing labor because if someone doesnt show up when they're expected to, they that work doesn't get done on time, as well, or at all depending on the position. So moving to a gig/temp workforce when reliability and consistency of the workforce is ESSENTIAL for everyday operations is a HUGE gamble on big companies Also if Co-OP drivers earn 10% more, and on average Lyft and Uber drivers make $1.45 hourly, that means that Co-OP drivers get $1.60 hourly, which is still not sustainable

[@beccangavin]

Well, it sounds practical to hire real employees and assume that they would be more reliable but that isn’t how our labor force is shaping up in actuality. There are a bunch of jobs that you would think would be regular employment jobs that are done by contract workers already. This includes cleaning people, truck drivers, assembly line workers, meat packers, EMTs and paramedics, educators, office administrators, IT professionals, etc. You mention manufacturing in specific so I wonder if you have any experience? Do you know what a Manpower is?

[@SerifSansSerif]

There's many reasons why we won't all shift to gig work. If we all made gig wages, there's be nobody to buy their products and services. Plus you need stability and consistency and for those you need a permanent workforce. And then there's training. Hire the wrong person and they have little to no idea as to what they are doing, and that worker becomes an even larger liability. Plus, to be honest, the shift is beginning. The pendulum has swung in favor of corporate entities and capital for a long time, and now it's starting to swing back towards labor and worker's rights. There's renewed interest in unions, a coming economic winter in the financial markets (we were seeing this called in 2019), and honestly, tech is maturing. The next 10 years is going to result in more regulation of the internet, licensing of software, (probably starting with right to repair, but I assume "software as service" MIGHT get some regulation, or it's going to keep a low profile in order to not get hit with regulation), and some services MIGHT, and this is a big "might" get regulated as utilities rather than your run of the mill companies. It's hard for a lot of people to see this because they are trying to predict based on short term info during a time of great change and upheaval. The tech gurus and stock brokers are the ones most likely to be this way, forgetting infinite growth is simply not possible. Ever.

[@MelkorPT]

"What went wrong" is a stupid question, it was wrong from the start. We already tried the gig economy, it was called the 19th century, both in the cottage industry and the non-regulated large scale industry varieties.

[@YawaruSan]

There could be a utility in the gig economy if it was centralized and all jobs are treated like a single job even if you work different places. Like banks have floating tellers, you could have floating fast food employees, no application or interview just doing jobs where needed. The problem is treating workers as independent contractors instead of employees, the systems are built to benefit the corporation, and we need to take power away from corporations. Whatever excuse people make, it's just selfishness and greed, anything else is just a rationalization, and if we don't design systems to benefit the workers, corporations will keep taking more and more every year. There will never be a "good" time to take a stand, people are procrastinating their way into oblivion while calling other people lazy.

[@SerifSansSerif]

That's what temp work is and it has existed for ages. Some people like it. Idk. Outside of tech it seems to be shitty pay and a lot of it is factory work.

[@YawaruSan]

@@SerifSansSerif I’m aware of temp agencies and that isn’t what I described, the main difference is that temp jobs are individual jobs and the temp agency takes more money than they pay out, plus it’s not centralized it’s just another business. The idea is to take what temp agencies do and do it for the benefit of workers, not the agency itself. We need to rebuild the economy around benefiting workers rather than corporations.

[@cococolonel]

Not to sound sarcastic but isn't that just a setup for a gig worker union? Even if one or two fat cats started giving ammenties and better pay to independent contractors, not every company is going to follow that trend once they're done calculating the cost of ultraflexible work. Not to mention, at best, this working in the contractor's favor in highly populated areas where they can even have those opportunities to float.

[@YawaruSan]

@@cococolonel it’s just a matter of practicality. Right now the capitalist economy gives far to much power to corporations and money, so things need to change to empower the employee and put the rich in their place. I don’t think there is a single best approach, just a bunch of options we need to explore to know if they work. People need to get out of that “it’s impossible so I’ll just stay complacent” mindset, you literally can’t know that until you try. It’s about adapting to modern time and technology, it’s a known fact that concentrating wealth only benefits the person hoarding it, anyone that say anything otherwise is just working to maintain the status quo and does not have the working class in mind. We need to work smarter, not harder. Corporations can’t just do whatever they want like spoiled brats, they need to cooperate and settle for a fair share, not what their greed makes them feel entitled to. We don’t need violence to accomplish it, we need to communicate and coordinate to yank the power balance hard to workers rights and bargain to maintain a balance. We waste so much time, effort and resources doing things in cheap, sloppy ways to the sole benefit of the rich, we need to cut that shit or we’re screwed. We got social media, that’s all that’s necessary to undermine the establishment and replace them as the new status quo, if we’re willing to do the work that needs to be done rather than just what’s convenient. Ultimately you need people to do the jobs that keep society running, and they’d do though jobs with their heads held high if they made a good living and felt their work was appreciated. If people can get over their egos that can happen, people on the whole just fuck around too much, the 24/7 thing isn’t good for people without impulse control, people need to stop trying to control others and get control of themselves.

[@SerifSansSerif]

@@cococolonel why would you ever believe gifs are in favor of the worker or a union would form? Their needs are flexible. You need to pay rent and buy food are not.

[@shadowgb]

at one point I was doing uber, lyft, grubhub and doordash all at the same time in order to make a living, and I was still broke.

[@mattwhaley1865]

As someone who has been able to get by and get ahead at times. The gig economy has been beneficial for me. I am autistic and found it difficult to maintain employment at a w-2 employer. The longest I could work was 6 months at 1 company. However now I use multiple gig apps and am able to pay my expenses a bit quicker, work wherever and whenever I want, with daily to weekly pay. The downsides are that they don’t care if you have a sensory overload or are severely sick, and is a legitimate reason, you can and will be banned because of a no call no show policy that is definitely discriminatory. On top of that, there are no actual benefits like health insurance, 401k PTO, FMLA just to name a few.

[@NoirpoolSea]

Microsoft has been doing gig economy for decades. Many of their employees can only work for 9 months of the year and have to take 3 off so as not to be categorized as full time employees and thus do not get stock benefits as do full time employees. Those coming back after 3 months have to RE-APPLY for their old job back and compete with newcomers who can be hired for a lower wage.

[@StevenSiew2]

So what kind of moron would work for Microsoft?

[@justwhistlinpixie]

The co-op model has great potential for empowering workers, I'm all for it. The model is logistically difficult in our current environment legally, culturally, financially, but increasing awareness is a good first step. Please consider doing a dedicated video on how the co-op model works in detail.

[@Randompotatoes-qs7bm]

I started on gig apps for pet sitting. And then I moved on to getting my own insurance and getting my own clients. The app takes a huge chunk of your earnings and just wasn’t worth it.

[@DerFlorisch]

I know the Wisecrack Team is aware of their intrisic irony but it never hit me as hard as with this one. Just finished watching the "is productivity killing us?" video where they talk about the fact that we are enslaving ourselves to appeal to corporations, just to see them promote a productive routine manager here. I feel your pain Michael.

[@RideshareOtter]

As a rideshare driver, I have seen my income drop as my costs increase. The only reason I can still make it is I driver high end rides as well as economy trips and tips help.

[@Amshatelia88]

"Portable benefits" ie Medicare4All? lol This isn't some nebulous concept, pretty much every other industrialized country in the world already guarantees basic healthcare to all citizens regardless of their jobs. Why can't we have that here?

[@bongwelll]

Greed. Just old fashioned greed. You can trace many of our current problems back to greed. This world needs a huge change now.

[@tripfisk4246]

Sorry, I prefer my tax money to go to funding endless overseas wars even if they cost trillions than having healthcare.

[@Wainguapo718]

Other countries may guarantee basic healthcare, but it doesn't necessarily guarantee quality healthcare. You have to work for your healthcare or provide your own. Why is that a hard concept to understand?

[@Amshatelia88]

@@Wainguapo718 actually the US has the poorest health outcomes among industrialized countries despite spending the most. We pay more to stay sicker. How does that make sense?

[@BruceSteever]

@@Wainguapo718 Shill harder, Fox viewer.

[@Danielle-zq7kb]

In the 90’s, before the current gig economy, there were companies profiting from temporary contract workers and they were anyone from day laborers to knowledge workers like accountants, nurses, scientists and lawyers. These companies often took 50% of the money they were charging the contractor.

[@thejamesthird]

It’s the middle man economy, ‘disruption’ to me just means ‘how can we become a middle man in a portion economy that has none.’ Uber is a middle man between a cabbie and rider, you used to call a taxi company or hail a cab now Uber does it for you and steals money from the rider. You used to order from a restaurant and the delivery people that worked for that restaurant would deliver. Now Uber eats supplies the driver and takes a cut from the restaurant. It’s all about becoming a middle man and extracting wealth. I hate it.

[@OccupiedMuffins]

I genuinely despise corporate America and the practices they’re allowed to implement and get away with.

[@BruceSteever]

"He who has the gold makes the rules."

[@houstonhilton74]

New York City's taxi costs are higher than the national average for sure, but remember: the city is dense and HUGE, so there is alot of demand for taxis. In addition, there is very limited car space, as the downtown area isn't really designed for the car. The pricing is intended more as a nudge to make you use more efficient transportation methods, like metros and buses. In addition, the NYC has alot of infrastructure taxes for their taxi drivers, and their taxi drivers need a fair living wage for living in somewhere as expensive as NYC. Honestly, the $50 cost in general should be more of the true, fair cost for that person's labor in general - even outside of NYC. The main reason why we perceive it as expensive is because our wages in general have stagnated like crazy. It's all so depressing lol

[@michaelwright8410]

I’m a CNA at a hospital. I love my coworkers, but so many are contract nurses. I hate the concept in principle. In a perfect world, you would hire employees locally, no need for individual contracts. We could work together and form a union and collectively bargain for better benefits, better working conditions, and pay that kept up with inflation, etc. The contract workers (not to say they are selfish) seem to only see the money and not the cost saving benefits. Your job is not only about money, the benefits are important too. But as soon as I get my chance, I’m moving to Europe for universal healthcare, this country is a lost cause

[@Alverant]

The gig economy was for the rich to get richer and it will continue to grow as long as that's true.

[@archmad]

not true, before gig economy, there are rich people

[@FelixMatveev]

The only thing that honestly amused me in this gig-stuff was inability of ordinary people to see this past the glossy façade. Thing was a scam from day one.

[@goblin3810]

Post corporate capitalism aka fiction

[@hannahwhite7227]

I did Instacart for a little bit while searching for new employment, and I actually really enjoyed doing it. The flexibility was awesome, I didn’t have to rely on other people to be able to do my job properly, and the tips were really good for the most part. But the issue is that the portion instantcart Pays you (not including tips) is below minimum wage, and they don’t compensate for car repairs/gas despite people using their personal vehicles to make deliveries. They have a their sneaky ways of avoiding compensating for those extra costs and turn the responsibility onto their workers. It’s not worth it, but it’s a fun temp job

[@p5eudo883]

Kinda sounds more like a hobby of donating money to a crooked company, more than a temp job.

[@b-r-a-i-n-r-o-t]

it's really cute to imagine the reckless maximization of profit as beginning like 7/8ths through the US project and not being like fundamental to it

[@b-r-a-i-n-r-o-t]

"nooo businesses were all smol beans before 1950" lmao

[@stevenwebster3286]

@@b-r-a-i-n-r-o-t the railroads employed gig workers, and many died.

[@Seth9809]

You're completely ignoring that there was a lot more unions before the 1970s and it was completely normal for a person to work a job for 8-30 years.

[@b-r-a-i-n-r-o-t]

@@Seth9809 and you're completely ignoring that you're pointing at a consequence not a cause

[@malvolio01]

I was one of the first drivers when Uber started. There were so few of us, we actually had numbers. It was only in SF, all black cars (Lincoln Town Cars), and you had to interview in-person. It was amazing then, especially for someone recently out of college. I drove part-time and earned 85k the first yr. Guys who were working full-time were doing 2500 to 3k. Also, there were no hubs. If you had a problem, you went into Uber HQ and they dealt with it. Wasn't long, though, until it started to go downhill. Lyft came along, Uber created Uber X, which was still pretty good money for a while, but then it became a race to the bottom.

[@Niko_Tortellini]

The French had a solution for all these issues, not just this video but on many issues in our society. Can't say what it is, but I think it involved wood, rope, and metal.

[@arhicluj2008]

Ah, yes, ploughing the rich

[@lingo3125]

Sharp metal. Otherwise it won't cut nicely

[@slyanna3688]

Based

[@Apheleion]

I work as a contract worker for the games and arch viz industry, while also having a full time job at an arch viz company. Things that suck is the uncertainty in the games industry as soon as you finish your part you are fired/let go there is heavy union busting in the games industry and the companies try to weaponize your passion against you. This is why there is so much burnout in the games industry. Arch viz and product advertising is more stable than the games industry but less rewarding creatively. I pick up extra work on fiverr but there are so many people on it who keep under cutting each other to get a client and a lot of the people who under cut aren't real artist and just steal models from free sites or other artist and sell it as there own to get clients, a high quality render of an environment or model should not cost 50 bucks that is like a $300 - $500 job because all the work that goes into modeling, lighting, texturing, unwrapping, and everything else that goes into it. Being contract is an excuse companies use to not pay fairly, limit wage negations, and have the ability to fire/let go of someone when they don't want to pay.

[@misterx6276]

Uber and Lyft are unique experiences; You basically pay to work for them!

[@umjackd]

I work as a freelance English teacher in Europe, and it's become increasingly common here too. Companies prefer their English teachers to be independent contractors on freelancer visas or similar arrangements so they don't have to worry about sponsoring or taking care of their teachers. I'm looking to get out of it when I can, but I have to say it's not worth it to anyone considering this as an opportunity to travel and work. Being encouraged to "open my own company" takes away some of the flexibility, and the added paperwork also takes away some of the same, which are supposed to be the advantages of working like this.

[@TAP7a]

Post corporate capitalism? That’s just market socialism, and I’m fairly sure no existing capitalist is going to let us get started with that. Not unless we get someone like the GNU project to develop it

[@Sparticulous]

You would only get market socialism from their cold bones

[@adaminfunkytown]

There's lots of successful Co-Ops around. I go to Wilco Farm stores a lot and they seem to be doing just fine...

[@Sparticulous]

@@adaminfunkytown if they get too large, venture capitalists will try to deal with them. Or if they effect the voting in an area, you damn sure will see laws being passed against them

[@p5eudo883]

Corporations will lobby against it and buy up the rights to projects if it becomes a serious threat.

[@SD-tj5dh]

There should be an app that just links customers to certified taxi drivers, who can set their own rates which can be shown on the app. That allows anyone who wants to be self employed to still get work at a price that suits them. But essentially people need to STOP driving the wages down by trying to be the cheaper option.

[@Llortnerof]

Frankly, i'm left wondering why anybody ever considered Uber anything else than a Taxi service. One that often lacked proper licensing and in many cases operated illegally.

[@LiveFreeOrDie2A]

Okay.. what was stopping taxi drivers from doing this? Who is going to just make and maintain this app. It’s the very fact taxi drivers didn’t make such an app that left the door open for competitors like Uber to exploit what was such an obvious demand. Taxi drivers became complacent due to their monopoly. It’s competition that creates innovations like this in the first place

[@mendalz]

Can’t believe how big this got, or how easily people fell for these stupid jobs.

[@truecatholic1]

Most people don't want to starve or become homeless. On the other hand, apparently they never even consider political action. There was a revolution in Sri Lanka because of food issues. But in the USA there aren't many people like that. However, people don't know how much better things can be. They have been kept ignorant or misinformed by EVIL business propaganda.

[@BruceSteever]

Desperation is a powerful drug.

[@Slai47]

My tech company just straight up converted or ended contracts with our contractors. The company finally sees that programs need consistent developers or it just becomes a literal mess and slows everything down. Many tech companies try this and it ends up costing them years to fix after.

[@adamgardner28]

I knew this back when it started. I wondered how they could overpay drivers and undercut fares, and how that could be sustained. It was like when I was heavily recruited by MLMs, and when I asked how I could make money selling X at a discount, they couldn't answer, only replying with the same canned scripted dialogue I heard in their marketing video, and kept pushing for me to pay the $500 upstart fee.

[@JamesDavis-hs3de]

I used to work for DoorDash and a couple other similar services and business was good during the pandemic when all of a sudden restaurants were closed and rich people would order their pastas and luxurious meats through DoorDash and I could typically average at least $10-$15 per delivery in the right area. However after restaurants started reopening again my $100-$200 per 4 hour shift quickly became about five dollars per hour if even. It served its purpose, now it’s time to see their way out.

[@emanym]

The revolution is nigh. Down with the billionaires. Workers of the world, unite!

[@RicardoSantos-oz3uj]

And create bigger government to exploit you. You are getting exploited one way or another.

[@emanym]

@@RicardoSantos-oz3uj that’s what the billionaires want you to think.

[@nodymus6519]

Slacktivism

[@dgscorner]

Not from the US, but I remember when Uber was here in the Philippines. Fares were super low compared to their biggest competition, Grab. I remember during one ride, around 20km or so, Grab fare was around P900.00 ~ $20.00, but Uber was around P350.00 or roughly $8.00. A difference of $12.00 was literally more than minimum wage then for most people here in our country. Back then I thought "Wow this was super cheap! Why couldn't Grab have these prices?" And now thanks to this video I know why. Uber is now gone in our country here, labor laws and regulation I think.

[@b1g_m00n]

as a philosopher once famously said, "screw capitalism am I right"

[@AJX-2]

"Capitalism? More like crapitalism, amirite ladies?" - Carl Mark or something

[@sc065]

@@AJX-2 Nice same joke.

[@sergiowinter5383]

I prefer to think that it's better to have a chance, even if little, to not be poor with capitalism than having sure that you will be poor without it

[@TIMEtoRIDE900]

@@AJX-2 Groucho Marx

[@b1g_m00n]

@@sergiowinter5383 are you talking about Capitalism or about Jesus

[@anilbalram7768]

I tried multiple gig apps and the problem is that other people try to do these gigs full time and take hours away from everyone. The gig apps would work if everyone had a stable day job and did the gigs on a more flexible part time basis.

[@justandhans]

And the whole 3% unemployment, that includes people just doing gigs or part time. That doesn't factor in whether those 97% of "employed" people who are making ends meet.

[@IAmTheBugInsideYou]

Unemployment is a useless statistic at the end of the day

[@FriendlyGecko2024]

Everytime I start watching a Wisecrack video and I have to stop to skip 2 mins into ads I think 'The Influencer economy was always a scam"

[@BoogerDad]

This was fantastic. Very well put. I'd love to see 'What Went Wrong' with tipping culture

[@GhostSamaritan]

23 years old uni student from Sweden here, and every job I've had in my life (except for some seasonal work) has been as a contractor. It's really unreliable because you won't know how much work you'll be getting or what schedule you'll be following, and at some places you won't even be told where you're going to work until the same day. Furthermore, contractors lose more money than normal employees when sick due to the labor regulations in my country. Sweden is known for having outstanding labor rights, but that unfortunately only extends to regular employees, and not to contractors. It's so disgusting to increasingly see companies fire their regular workers and rely more on contractors, but I guess it won't change until workers demand a change.

[@coinsilver3]

The biggest red flag here is expecting self driving cars to replace their workforce.

[@RicardoSantos-oz3uj]

I guess sabbotage would come back.

[@hausbroken6353]

working in the hospitality industry for over 20 years i began to see this phenomenon take over. Apps like instawork and quick have made it possible to fill positions quickly albeit with out interviews or vetting. At first it was used to fill positions on short term basis, to fill call outs or when a replacement hadn't been hired for an open position. Quickly upper management realized that while contract employees cost the company almost twice the hourly wage of a traditional employee the benefits of not being on the hook for taxes, medical insurance, or disability made them cheaper. Truth be told this has been happening for years in the industry. Night cleaners, people who come in and clean restaurants at night had been hired through companies who used contract employees to do the work. Often times contracts for $3000 to $4000 a month were signed work that often would take 3 people 5 hours a night or more to complete. After the company took their cut the workers were making less than $10/hr to do a horrendously hard job. Most of these workers could not obtain legal work and were forced into these roles. The future workers looks bleek.

[@Krasbin]

The gig economy depends upon excessive availability of workers. People can say no, if there is a labour shortage. And then a stable job is a selling point, which allows you to pay a lower wage. Put in opposite terms, during a labour shortage, gig work comes at a huge premium. Remember the immense disaster of the plague, which reduced population by 50% or more in Europe in the 14th century. But decades later, people moved from serfdom (essentially slavery, but you can have children), to labour. That led to a boom period, with the printing press (Gutenberg), trade, exploration, (Columbus), Protestantism, etc.

[@tarzz25qwe]

This is one of the most positive ads I've seen in a while, I'm not gonna pay for a subscription to that shit but still very positive

[@richardblackmore9351]

Is Airbnb technically the Gig economy, though? Every time I have ever stayed at one the owner was someone who had a day job and just happened to have a second property that they let people stay at through Airbnb. It was a side hustle, or second business. The people that run these places aren't exactly "giggers". They are professionals who have steady income coming in from their good day job, and they just happen to say, "hey wouldn't a few extra tens of thousands of dollars a year be great."

[@TeeTee-bz3pv]

Contractors are taking over the economy. I worked in the retail sales corporate most my life and I would make about 70k. Now jobs like that are impossible to find because all the corporate retail stores have switch to third parties. I worked at one as a full time employee but I part time hours was on 30k. And that have nothing to do with the lack of benefits. I left the field because the stress of the public and hitting goals aren’t worth that little money. Everyone is outsourcing everything and it hurting the country.

[@devonslating1398]

Post corporate capitalism: collective ownership of the means of production, transforming capital into the means instead of the end goal. Socialism: literally the same but now it's considered scary and bad instead of good.

[@smalltime0]

In my city (Perth), it is $4.50 on Public Transport, one way, anywhere. So from tip to toe it is $4.50 (~120km), if you mess around you pay more, but so long as the journey is 2 hours, it is $4.50

[@shawniscoolerthanyou]

If we had a UBI and single-payer health care (and ditched the hourly min wage), we'd be much more free to change employers, work gig jobs, or take a job with a better work-life balance. Gig work doesn't make sense in the weird universe we ended up in where employers provide health insurance.

[@BruceSteever]

Don't conflate the broken American system with "the universe," please.

[@surreal3900]

there will never be ubi they will exterminate us first before that happens.

[@nab267]

I am a Door Dasher. I don't take orders under a certain amount. When I order door dash, I pay a generous tip so my order will come faster

[@schtuff.8207]

I predict an app where you pay a few dollars a month to have gig economy insurance and benefits, call it Unyfy or something like that. Have gig workers quit en-masse unless the companies agree to the Unyfy apps terms, and then when you sign up for the union app, you're essentially getting that protection and Unyfy will act on your behalf with the other apps. Forget passing legislation - Apps can skirt around a lot of red tape - at least for a long time - why not create your own for your own best interests, gig workers? And then another union app when that one gets corrupted, and so on and so on until we reach the singularity...

[@C_oboe]

I think there is such a thing already-? Can’t think of the name but I have had advertisements come up on videos on here for one in particular…

[@kainigwon5433]

Fine. fine. FINE!!!! Ok! I have downloaded that goddamn Fabulous app you're advertising! I Never listen to ads and always skip them but just this time Im gonna give it a try. So tired of ads that i'm finally giving in. Congratulations. You've just made history. alright. Let's see what the hell this thing does.

[@Draytherion]

“Post Corporate Capitalism”? These apps will always be privately owned by their creators. We could just as easily make the NON gig economy industries worker co-ops. We don’t need better apps, what we need is SOCIALISM

[@andrewgemmell5162]

In the alternative, I believe the app-based gig economy services are largely being used to lay the groundwork for an employee-free future rather than a long term opportunity for human workers. Many of these tasks stand to replace humans with automated solutions in the coming years. Think automated FSD vehicles, drones, and semi-AI platforms. You build the business on the backs of people seeking flexibility to work for lower wages until the technology significantly develops to the point where you no longer need employees to pay. You build the network now, and then transition to a human-free services fulfillment model for your company.

[@Adyen11234]

Gigs economy: The way companies tried to get around all the safety nets and costs on the exact same thing from companies that would had to pay for other costs normally.

[@reup658]

No CaPEX or labor cost

[@noodleyboodley]

"socialising risk and privatizing returns" is such as important point

[@cmilla111]

I never quite understood how fast food UberEats could be successful. I know lots of lazy people, but it always felt like the only people realistically afford “luxury food delivery” was maybe not the same demographic of people who often had takeout delivered. And I especially never felt like there was ever a way to pay enough to even the most desperate impoverished hardworking dedicated workers without adding enough of a surcharge where you alienate even more. Then again I know multiple people who buy their groceries at the convenience store at 2-3 the cost because they are too lazy/busy/whatever to go the grocery store 2 miles away.

[@SerifSansSerif]

Delivery used to be common for some restaurant types. Mostly pizza and Chinese. Used to buy the typical teenager job. What happened is overhead probably got more expensive for these businesses, and gas and car costs went up so there was less money to pay the delivery people and it made less sense to do so the runs... Uber eats tapped into something that used to exist and was an included service, but since there wasn't a "free" option, they were able to charge whatever they want, and on the delivery person's side, it seems like a quick job for a few bucks, but when you are taking on the externalities and costs of doing the gig, it's just not worth it.

[@o.c.g.m9426]

After graduation I went into social services. Many people stated no it wasn't "enough money" but as a debt free child free man, I make more than enough for my life. I knew then(as a history major) that going off the class based system this country has their will always be a need for someone to help the homeless & down trodden due to the structures put in place to keep people poor. I've always had job security as long as I was a good worker. Put 2 debt free case managers together who make 55k each(who saves & invest) then you can have a home & family. Always stay in shape for physical jobs as well

[@a_e_hilton]

Do we wanna talk about professional freelancing or does that hit a little too close to home for Wisecrack writers?

[@BruceSteever]

Big oof.