The Great Hwayoung Controversy of 2022 - Let's Analyze It [A Rodent's Take]

[@stormfall2783]

Dr. Squirrel is so fucking based. Had me laughing all through the world championship section 😂 "it's just day 1, this is just the scrubs, probably pretty bad."

[@C3611]

"I really hate this skank!" -Dr. Squirrel, 2022

[@DaenaMichelle]

Can't blame him, her voice doesn't suit her at all

[@malidice997]

Oh no, I used a selector on Hwayoung, and now I'm going to have another selector with a larger hero pool. How could I ever possibly emotionally cope?

[@someoneelse4939]

Do you think Lua will be included in the selector? Honestly, I very much doubt It, but I guess we'll see.

[@jeonhyunrin3108]

@@someoneelse4939 you must be dreaming then .

[@darylli7790]

@@jeonhyunrin3108 Thing is, he’s not dreaming. The wording in the announcement doesn’t exclude Lua as an eligible candidate from this selector. Unless they release another announcement, Lua’s fair game.

[@-8h-]

@@darylli7790 the first one was saying that they doubt Lua will be in the selector. But she definitely will be unless they pull a fast one because they didn't realize.

[@darylli7790]

@@-8h- That’s exactly what I’m saying. I was just responding to the person above me who was skeptical that Lua will be in the selector.

[@DK-bj9hx]

Even if the video is on the longer side I must say all the points he made are concise and logical. Absolute chad.

[@GodwynDi]

Long term games need buffs AND nerfs. They need to make a permanent nerf schedule between seasons. Whales and people who finally get a unit can be assured to have it as is all season.

[@gon8912]

We really need to emphasize more that SG made 2 frenzy changes just so we can "deal" with Hwayoung better in RTA, the elemental disadvantage dmg reduction and later on the barrier reduction(cause her barrier used to get stronger as frenzy increases). So all these comments about how Aria and Choux deal with her, yeah now they do, now that they artificially changed how the game mode works, they survive and can counter her, so people that dont cleave and don't want to pre banned her have some chance now.

[@froliz]

Let me start with I 100% believe Hwayoung should be nerfed. No unit should be good at absolutely everything; only thing Hwa doesn't do at this point is healing, reviving and debuffing. That said, the problem with "They can buff her later" is actually easy to see. They don't have a good track record of buffing dead units. SG doesn't have a good track record, and doesn't do balance patches enough (both in frequency, or amount of units buffed) to convince us that they know what they're doing. Teira is still dead, Sez is still dead, Haste was dead for the longest time and still dead, etc. Sage Baal and SBA were dead for the longest time since their nerf, and this was more heavy handed than that. The only unit that actually survived a nerf that I can even think of is Arby. Thinking that "she'll just get buffed if they over nerfed her" is extremely wishful thinking given SG's track records. As for nerfs on Hwayoung's kit specifically, they nerfed her base attack on top of removing damage scaling based off hp difference, and change defense pen to be the new thing that scales off hp difference, and mentioned that the difference needs to be higher now than before. Unless the damage multiplier gets buffed to a ludicrous level, I'm not exactly convinced she'll even be able to keep her damage anywhere close to even against high HP targets post nerf. Is it *possible*? Technically, yes. Is it likely at all given what SG has done over the past 4 years? Not by a long shot. That's some huge leap of faith here to believe she'll still keep her main niche after something this heavy handed. As the problem with the "Yulha sucks anyways" argument, the issue here is that's literally the thing she is designed for. Yulha was basically designed as and marketed as a AI Hwayoung counter, in a similar way Holiday Yufine was an answer for Basar. That was her purpose. What SG literally did here is they artificially created a problem, then sold you a solution, and then removed said problem. That's not a business practice we should be OK with at all.

[@lolomat12B]

Funny how people are spamming "learn to adapt", but literally cry about adapting to a meta where hwayoung is not used in and against everything.

[@Linkthesk8er]

I was gonna mention something similar...I guess both sides of the coin aren't that different after all.

[@lolomat12B]

@@Linkthesk8er Whatever you say on the internet, the grass always looks greener on the other side.

[@tundranocaps]

[@timphiz]

The "it's whataboutism" argument doesn't really make sense when we're talking two components of a highly interdependent system. It's not "what about ARavi and Rimuru? they're OP too!", it's "nerfing Hwayoung will make these already OP units that she counters even stronger".

[@tundranocaps]

@@timphiz Yet you must start somewhere, especially in the case of SG, where waiting for them to tackle multiple issues concurrently is almost impossible. Also, it is whataboutism when it isn't used for "You should've nerfed X and Y at the same time," but as a reason to not nerf X at all, because there are "worse offenders."

[@yololoyo7379]

Eh there's some whales that are mad with nerf too. Shotgun Shogun got so pissed he started insulting the entire E7 community haha

[@tundranocaps]

@@yololoyo7379 This is less about emotional impact, more about how it affects your account's power. Whales care far less when a unit is nerfed. No, it is less likely to make them whale less, in fact, it might make them whale more - to ensure they have all the units in case the current top units do get nerfed.

[@yololoyo7379]

@@tundranocaps yeah i know but what i said is there's definitely whales that are upset, not just F2P or casuals. Like some KZbinrs, some of my guildmates because they triple S that shit, they still can taste the salt. Selector doesn't mean shit for them because they basically have all the units already. Same shit when SG nerfed S.Baal and Ara back then, they even got review bombed because of it. I'm ok with nerf and buff tho

[@ARGHETH]

You're a lot more optimistic than I am about the possibility of A Ravi getting nerfed, I'll believe they'd be willing to nerf an ML5 when I see it.

[@DrSquirrel]

Well they've done it several times in the past already (SB ara/baal, etc.), but the backlash scared them off. Let's see how the Hwayoung backlash affects them now.

[@someoneelse4939]

@@DrSquirrel I think it's also the fact that they don't want to give an ml/limited selector, since that would impact their bottom line. While that is understandable, they'll never be able to achieve balance if the nerfs are limited to covenant units, imho.

[@byceph]

If only proof of valor wasn't a threat, that wouldn't be problematic

[@timphiz]

@@DrSquirrel I'd count that as a data point against them being willing to nerf MLs since it's what caused them to implement their no nerfs ever policy. A big part of the problem is that they 100% dumpstered Baal and, people seem to forget this, also nerfed Arby so uselessly that he was still the strongest unit in the game. Very few people had Arby at that point, but then everyone traded in their Baals and Aras for him, kicking off his rein of terror. The whole episode inspired zero confidence in their ability to administer nerfs competently. Hwayoung looks like she's getting turned into red Ervalen.

[@alangrg4491]

Nerf has to be a thing in the game. I am afraid SG are already pissing themselves after the negative comments on stove and would never even nerf units anymore.

[@deoxi3207]

Yeah the community wants many things but when said things actually happen, they get pissed. Like the fuck?

[@alangrg4491]

@@deoxi3207 it's just that they want the nerf to happen but probably not to their favourite toy

[@Loserstakethebait]

@@alangrg4491 She was a crutch to so many players in all pvp game modes. It's obvious the people who relied on her all the time are gonna be mad. I get it. That doesn't make this nerf any less necessary though.

[@alangrg4491]

@@Loserstakethebait agreed

[@Zora147]

@@deoxi3207 Maybe they get pissed cause they didn't actually want it to happen??? Your statement makes no sense.

[@raze2012_]

I don't I commented on the last video, outside of saying "damn, Shotgun Shogun is pissed". But I do fall in #4. And while I think SS is a bit too extreme in his take, I do think he asked one good question that we all know internally "Do we trust SG to nerf properly". And as a collorary, "do we trust them to buff, IN A TIMELY MATTER". I think that's the issue. If E7 was a game with monthly buffs/nerfs and they were hefty patches that included 20+ characters consistently, then sure. maybe in a few months she'd get buffed if she was overnerfed. But we all know how glacial the buffs are, and in some cases we couldn't even get 10 characters in a patch, despite inflating the numbers by counting 3 stars and SC's separately. And god help you if you want an ML5 buffed; you'll be waiting years guaranteed. Maybe Hwa's damage mults will still be good, but long rant short, I'm not too optimistic given how some "buffs" with damage nerfs ended up neutering the character in the process (coli being the most obvious exampple).

[@yondangus7648]

Maybe SG didn't nerf her properly. Maybe, but also maybe the did. They definitely didn't design hwa properly in the first place, that's something we know for certain.

[@raze2012_]

@@yondangus7648 I'll be frank: it's way more fun to have a Hwayoung for a year than to have a Taeyou sitting around for 8 months until SG eventually decides to maybe make him useful. Maybe it's not great from a game design perspective, but it's way more engaging as a community to come together and love/hate/struggle with a threat everyone has to face than come up with a nickname like "Tae-Who?" because people don't even remember a character they pulled for is in the game, while complaining about a stale meta. That's my take on character releases.

[@yondangus7648]

@@raze2012_ I don't understand why we're comparing hwayoung to taeyou. And hwayoung literally isn't fun. She bypasses playing the game, solving pretty much anything in just 1 hit. What's fun about that? Haha wow free wins so fun? I don't think so. What's fun is having an interactive game to play where choices matter. It's been 6 or 7 months of hwayoung being prebanned pretty much every game but now she might actually see some play. Doesn't that sound fun?

[@raze2012_]

@@yondangus7648 feel free to substitute Taeyou for Sharun, or Yulha, or even Zahak. The point doesn't change. And I disagree. She's a fun solution that isn't pigeonholed as just a solution to one hero, like the other 3 examples. As a bonus she actually does her job unlike Pre-buff Taeyou or Sharun. But I understand why others feel differently. My grievance is less on Hwayoung and more on SG's buff schedule and buff choices, so I don't really care to argue the same thing everyone else has for the past week. I have nothing new to add to that discussion

[@yondangus7648]

@@raze2012_ so you... *don't* think it sounds like fun that hwa might start getting through drafts and seeing some play? I just don't see what's fun about a unit that just bypasses the game we're trying to play and you're not helping me understand what's fun about it. If hwa's fine, where do we draw line? Why not ask SG for a 300 base speed hero that one shots everything in 1 hit with an aoe? Post nerf hwa won't be pigeonholed to dealing with 1 hero like a useless yulha. High HP is large class of heroes that's only growing over time. She'll still be very good against high HP units and people who are planning to recall their hwa are insane.

[@bluebandit471]

It was kind of funny how people did try to make an argument that Hwa isn't that broken because she had low pick rate at World Ch. but it was because she was usually instantly banned or banned on second round.

[@aeriawindsor4722]

I always preban her, the only way to counter her is cleave, which is made your picks awkward when you're not a cleaver. And if that Hwayoung runs Counter Uberius, your cleave also might be undermined.

[@TohoEggbirb]

Hwa just ignores my Spirit Eye Celine passive so I wanted her straight up removed. unrelated: Mui needs a buff

[@MyrdinAnnoth]

The "descending blade of my own" was actually funny. Just make sure you have oath key equipped. You dont want it to miss the target XD My position on this is simple: I am all for nerfs. Just not heavy handed ones. Currently she is getting hit a bit too hard. Just do half of it and its gonna be just right. But the problem as always with SG balance updates is the time in between. Two and a half month for a single update in a game with 260+ heroes where majority of them need some form of adjustment just doesnt cut it. Sage Baal took 2 years after his nerf to be usable again. Admittedly now he is in the perfect spot as far as balance goes, but again. 2 years for one hero. Thats not a reasonable time frame. Now if they started pumping out these balance adjustments every month, we could certainly talk about short term overnerfing.

[@TheUnrisenEclipse]

my only issue with it is the s1 changes because I run a counter hwayoung and now the s1 is bad and I got gear no one I have can use that took me too long to get, and as I already feel this game doesn't respect my time with the constant farming it hurts a little more when my gear is rendered moot.

[@DrSquirrel]

Yes the nerf does hit significantly harder if you were running her on counter. But honestly, I think that ranked low on their concerns because I'd say less than 10% of people, if that, actually ran her on that set.

[@raze2012_]

@@DrSquirrel constellations were a mistake. She may have been fine if they were just able to nuke her Speeed down from 109 to like, 90. that way there's no way she could speed contest without hitting like a wet noodle, while keeping that counter build in mind. But ofc, due to how the game works, nerfing Hwa's bases means nerfing H!Yufine, who also wants to be reasonably fast so she can cut and cleanse.

[@Dripkage2000]

Highway (Her Nickname) is in her current state the most broken unit in the game period. Fast and Tanky and was zooming. Standard players faired her It was never fair she killed everyone with no conditions met and I agree. I hope from the result of this I hope she is ONLY going to 1 shot tanks turn 1 in rta and NOT anything she can put her foot on. Us defence scaling unit users can rest well.

[@jokin8247]

I 100% agree with you. It is very difficult to judge any of the balance adjustments without seeing the actual numbers. From the text alone, it does look like they cut her back farther than they probably needed to, however with the damage changes they have indicated its impossible to know where she will fall until we can try. I wish SG had a way to test or compare even just in the hero journal when they announce balance changes to figure out what numbers they have tweaked. Or just give us the multipliers instead of having people need to test or data mine them.

[@jokin8247]

Glad to see SG have the balls to pull a nerf out though

[@jokin8247]

Players need to grow up and stop being babies every time they change anything, if they want the game to be enjoyable in the next six months. No one enjoys playing an unbalanced game.

[@Fatalzyntax]

I like all Epic Seven content creators, everyone has a different opinion on this one. But I agreed with you 100% from Hwa's release. Too many people have a skewed view on things.

[@-8h-]

I find most of them have pretty terrible opinions. Squirrel, tsu, car6 and very few others give a more objective explanation. Most of them clickbait, calling every new hero op when they don't even know what that means, or only look at things from a selfish/personal level. I honestly wish more would present like Dr Squirrel and the others

[@mchlup]

This point is crucial for newer to mid game players, @17:25. People telling me to deal with A. Ravi using Alencia, like all the time. The last time we had an Alencia banner was in March.

[@aeriawindsor4722]

You finally got a selector after Hwa recall, how about pick Alen/Rat/Ravi or Kayron?

[@aurelienellena8138]

can we also take into consideration last units : Taeyou s3 on greatest atk unit and being switched from fire to water screams peira but also Hwayoung obviously, ML vivian and roy anti one shot kit screams rimururu but also Hwa, everything is made to resist painfully to hwa while also struggling to be meta, in RTA you don't need hwa to manage Aravi IMO but it is tiring to have your entire draft manoueuver around one units Last week I was griding to champion in arena thanks to hwa soloing entire teams while being protected and buffed on the side and I said to myself : are we really supposed to defeat those meta def that easily? there is clearly something wrong with her and I'm happy she get nerfed, hope not to oblivion

[@Loserstakethebait]

Gotta correct 1 thing. The ML Viv and Roy kits don't do anything for Hwa or Rimuru. It's more for things like Aravi. Any Hwayoung should be able to 1 shot any ML Viv or Roy. She does extra damage which ignores both of their passives, so with Uber tooth she will 1 tap them regardless. Moreover, Rimuru does flat dmg which bypasses both of their 1 turn requirements and completely ignores all dmg reduction and 1 hit kills them anyways.

[@D0ct0rD4RK]

While buffing and nerfing units is a significant part of balancing RTA, it's only part of the problem. If SG wants to make E7 esports ready, they have to address the RNG mechanics. I feel like the community should be focused on this instead of the Hwayoung nerfs. This game is literally built on multiple layers of RNG. No player can account for things like speed RNG, counters, and dual attacks. Even if we had a well-balanced roster, the matches themselves would still be horribly unbalanced. E7 RNG has to be the world's biggest producer of salt in the world.

[@Talon1508]

I wanted to build Senya and Summertime Iseria for a long time, thank you Smilegate to give me free gear for them. ;)

[@excalibursonic32]

About the Yulha bit, she's still basically green Krau to bait any fire hero in GW, so I'm pretty sure she'll still be very good for that.

[@raze2012_]

problem is that most other Fire heroes are AoE, unlike grass units. Politis is AoE burst, Kayron is mostly AoE and will rarely outspeed Yulha, Seaseria is a cleave setup with AoE bombs and ATK down, Carrot is AoE on low cooldown, Ara is AoE, Charlotte is AOE, H!Yufine is Aoe. Mercedes is AoE. I guess if you ever run into Roy it'll be helpful

[@StuffSayoSays]

@@raze2012_ Which you’ll never run into a Roy gvg or arena defense cause he’s meant to be used as an attacker to fully utilize his soul burns to s3. Yulha is now a dead unit a long with a recent buffed Coli who was buffed for Hwayoung. SG doing a 3 for 1 special, nerf 1 unit and kill 3 units.

[@keisou9765]

@@raze2012_ I feel like we'll be seeing a bit of Kayron, though, and Yulha might be a good candidate to eat the Apocalypse post S2 proc.

[@madeleinec6398]

my boyfriend linked me to this video and idk whats going on but ur doing great

[@endybr8214]

Lol what kinda of bf would send a nerd discussion video about something that happened on a niche mobile game? Can i date him in your place? :)

[@madeleinec6398]

@@endybr8214 TO BE HONEST he linked me here to tell me how nerdy this video sounds and I wanted to hear it for myself... definitely super nerdy (he meant it in a good way)

[@cupie2255]

lmfao, people actually arguing that she doesn't need to be nerfed are beyond delusional

[@gloveman1487]

I don't believe that SG is going to nerf Aravi soon since she's getting a skin and that would not look great for them.

[@ArkSkadi]

ive been playing this game over a year now, and I was very lucky to get hwa, I invested in her put her on crap gear(cuz im bad and I barely craft gear) and i can tell you just how broken she is, she was squishy and easy to kill but if she didn't die on the first turn she basically carry my crappy team(not because it had horrible units, but because it didn't make sense a lot of the time)i do need to clarify i have her on uberius tooth +21. ppl had out sped me, they have killed my other units but as long as i've had hwa alive the game was over. ot at least i had a shot to win the match

[@ichiroutakami4189]

Phantom e7wc 2022 winner.. his 1st skin wish was Hwa but they went w/ Choux maybe because SG planned to nerf Hwa even before the tournament.

[@xhydrox]

I completely agree with your points.

[@meltryllis3983]

I had no problem with her ability to one shot, but nothing was more frustrating than trying to dig through her absurd barrier, beat your units with normal attacks then slam an s3 at you again. And she cycles all that so fast. "Use units like op sig". Such an accessible answer. So yeah I pre-ban her all the time

[@animecheatcode]

so what's your thoughts on smile gate releasing another broken character at the end of the season.

[@ALoneFox24]

She is (currently) so ridiculous I maxed her out, then proceeded to turn my brain off and just win at life. My credit is perfect, I have a super model wife, my kid came out the womb a doctor, and it's all thanks to Hwayoung. Seriously nerfs were a little too far, but hey I never liked her anyway. I'm just glad I can get my molas and runes back. A Ravi will suck a little more now, but I'm absolute shit at this game and I manage. I am a little mad Yulha is kinda suedo nerfed, but I love Yulha anyways so I'll still use her.

[@darkwizard655]

I started laughing so loudly when he went from World Cup match to match... had no idea. I miss the time when I praised the balance of this game.

[@nincity4379]

Hwi, one of the top competitors in the e7wc was chatting in valky’s stream a few days ago and gave his opinion that he was happy with the nerf, and that it was a good move (paraphrasing of course, but that was the general gist). I genuinely doubt that a majority of the whales would be too pissed at the nerf because they likely had been in tune enough with the meta and game as a whole to realize what hwayoung was doing was effectively killing any potential team creativity players could have. Money is inconsequential to whales so to lose one unit isnt a huge loss. My guess is a majority of the people who are mad are so because she was something a majority of people could use to punch up to people higher level than them, but at the top that gave her the stranglehold. So many characters will be a lot safer to draft now with hwayoung gone that that will give both whales and f2p alike more options, depending on who they want to invest in and their play style. I also am not entirely sure how much sg is going to want to nerf A.Ravi as well. They have been taking some pre measures for dealing with her that have been, at least in my opinion, effective at knocking her down a peg. Alencia and Injury set as a whole are both a very hard check to Ravi that sg hasn’t been ignoring her this whole time, I trust them that they know what’s going on with the metrics that we can’t see that they’ll make a very very well informed choice when they decide to nerf or not nerf A.Ravi. Competitive games can only work when a proper system of curation is applied, which includes both nerfs and buffs, and I hope sg doesn’t cave to the loudest people shouting at them.

[@sben1245]

only "problem" i have with it is: tldr cause this got really tl: if a unit is busted in an unintended way, basically a bug, why does it take almost a year to fix it. its a joke to fix it now and pretend they didnt know about it before. where is the prerelease testing? where is the response to meta shift? where is the damage control? all slept for 10 months then decided to watch a couple vids on how their units do and go surprise pikachu face "people oneshot low to med hp units with this? we gotta fix that" hwa has been around for ages (just checked it was early this year but it feels like ages), untouched by the devs. what should have been an immediate nerf only dawned to them 8 months later. as someone who doesnt have her and doesnt bother to play rta, i ve only seen her in videos, but in those she is definitely frequently used to take out a threat regardless of hp quickly, not exclusivly to deal with stuff like knights or sws or hp based bruisers. which is what she was "inteded" to do, according to the reasoning of the nerf. why leave that untouched for 3/4 of a year? if a released character has a loophole where the kit is extremely unbalanced for an unintended use (being extremely easily gearable with spd and whatever atk and hp, able to oneshot most stuff in the game) this needs immediate fixing. not the release and rebalance of countless other units. imagine politis was released with insanely unbalanced multipliers on s3. while devs would expect her to be built with eff and maybe er and spd and hp, people would just start build high dps destruction politis to kill everything (thats kinda a thing already anyways). and that would become meta, every politis you see you know shes gonna be fast, shes gonna hit hard and unless you have a unreliant dps that manages to be faster, you cant buff or anything so you die. and we d have to deal with that, eventually figuring out ways, eventually units being released to deal with it. while the intended use is to cut and interrupt cleave teams with silence, buff block and strip debuff. and then a year later devs announce that they found that politis has been used in unintended ways. like wtf. who cares at this point. also, having been a shitass threat for nearly a year, EVERYBODY should have build a unit that counters and deals with hwa. i agree with comments stating this. (kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5PGfICalLZsmNE vid of a 100 cs ml khawazu oneshotting top 100 guild hwa) whats the point in nerfing her when we already can deal with it? thats like devs coming out and saying "oh after closer inspection we have concluded that violets evasion is busted, therefore we ll reduce it" - who cares, if you dont have teams built that can deal with violet thats on you. as a matter of fact, i propose that this is exactly why violet is not as meta as he used to be, or why arby isnt as insanely meta as he used to be, or why you find a lilias ssb charles defense once in a year - because people went ahead and built specific units that can deal well with those threats. on that thought, rip people that built coli to deal with hwa ... unless you like the unit. or yulha ... or aria ... recall anyone?? i like how people assume "just switch the gear, just a couple gold and move them to storage" forgetting that for some struggeling to get gear to build somewhat decent units, stuff like catalysts, mola, phantasms and exp doesnt grow on trees oh and of course bms dont either. lastly, as someone who didnt get a hwa, i had to deal with her shit, for months, with her being untouched by devs, and without a banner to pull her, and now, right around everybody already got and used their selector, i suppose most people that didnt get her used it to get hwa, only for her to get announced to be nerfed. guess it's somewhat alright as there will be a recall at least for her (imagine using selector for yulha or aria so you can deal with hwa) but i was looking forward to having the hwa experience yk? bit salty about that. also regarding the presentation of "is hwa busted": i feel like you should have looked at the fight to see how they deal with her, not only picks. and given a more overall approach, looking at different players and videos showing different approaches. thinking about this i actually got an idea: people that dislike colis or ml khawazus design wouldnt build them as counters to hwa. this means that player preference plays a role in the question "how do you deal with something" and "can i deal with something", this just means hwa needs to be dealt with specifically, cant just throw kise in there and expect her to work because you really really like to play with kise. keeping that in mind let me propose a theory: these top tier rta players have access to ml units with kits so busted and loaded wasting a slot on a unit that can deal with hwa is a lost slot for bustedness meaning they would prefer not to have to loose a teamslot to that, and that being why they choose to preban or early pick her. also, through those picks, people also picked diene early, does that mean she needs a nerf too? and dont miss the mix of aravi belian cilias prebans/firstpicks. hwa is just a rgb unit aspiring to ascend to ml meta xD but jokes aside, i think through ban & pick you can only see what people dont want to deal with, not how they are dealing with it (which is what the argument of adepting is based on). also pls dont use the word objectivly when you go into an analysis with a specific point and perspective you have, coining and interpreting everything supporting that argument and making it obvious with sarcasm even (unless you were memeing).

[@KKarama1]

i like aravi but I can admit Hwang came to be because they refused to nerf aravi and wanted a easy solution. Hwang isnt a problem if you just ban her is what people mean

[@r5yan102]

"just ban" bruh

[@OmnishitpostENG]

In rta preban is the easiest to deal with aravi and hwayoung lol. Aravi didn't get nerf even though everyone know how broken she is. Many counters didn't works. And hwayoung getting nerf is just stupid Bruiser hates hwayoung and want her to nerf and gets it And cleaver hates aravi and want her to get nerf didn't gets it So Hwayoung is not broken until aravi gets nerf

[@aeriawindsor4722]

Dumbest thing ever, Cleaver will still first pick Aravi, and ban Belian, what cleave hates the most is Senya, Elena and Belian. Hwayoung can win Bruiser vs Bruiser match alone and ignore elemental triangle.

[@JayCruz-rv7qj]

I think they did great with the nerfs her oneshoting high atk units was infuriating that has very little counters i had my senya with 5k atk 25k hp and she still got one shoted like wtf was that even as for A Ravi. heres my thoughts yes she needs a nerf but she only needs minor ones just have her consumer 5 more fighting spirit when hit and ignore damage reduction effects on her self will make her good but balanced or just give her a role to fill rather than an all rounder like make her dps scale the longer the battle by decrease her initial dmg and giving her scaling on her passive put her s3 scaling into her passive then make it scale both s1 and s3 so she doesnt just 1 shot things early when in cleave.

[@FGDhorus]

I would nerfed her survivability. Make her a glass cannon. When she was first announced I thought she'd be a glass cannon instead she was strong offensively and defensively. So just out right get rid of her Barrier and cleanse and keep everything else in tact. Still one shot but easy to kill.

[@teplun7531]

i disagree with the point where you said that all the best players in the world (in E7WC ) neither first pick her or preban her because THEY SCARE OF HER. Well i dont think a player at that level will get scared of any unit in this game. So lets talk about their play style. E7WC is a really important game, not like some rta that you can play everyday, in rta you can use a team with all cleave unit (which we already known hwa is really weak against cleave), as you known this kind of team now have may units to deal with cleave, so its really easy to fail and lose a match. SO in E7WC, no one RISK their battle with a cleave comp because they known what their doing, they will find a more sustain with less risk, that is bruiser play style. You can rewatch every match and you will see almost all of the match in E7WC is bruiser playstyle, some of them are aggro. Dealing with bruiser team of course is hwayoung play ground, she is a good unit to deal with bruiser and she is a bruiser as well. I cant think of any usable unit in this game that not strong in their play ground, not to mention hwa is kind of a monster her self. So the way they preban her is to make sure that the opponent dont have the obvious answer to their bruiser comp, or simply keep the solution for yourself, that is a simple way to win right. And they want to use alencia and other bruisers as well, so banning hwayoung is the safest solutions, not because they scare of her, not because she is really thats strong. Its because they was thinking exact same thing: NO ONE WILL CLEAVE BECAUSE ITS TOO RISK, so they dont need to ban belian, politis...etc. I hope you can read all of this and let me know how you think about this thank you

[@MarianDoruPopa]

Well without Hwayoung Yulha is just useless, so r.i.p my pity and 6* resources ( small mola ) but still it hurts for a f2p to just lose 1-2 pity and so many resources just like that!

[@imagine7691]

Liked this video way more than the last. I think everyone was a little too emotional on both sides when the news came out but I agree she needed a nerf. I like you have EVERY UNIT(even the elemental versions of the new MC) so I don't care about protecting units but my main issue is A Ravi. As long as she part of the nerfing as well I don't really have an issue with this. As aside they should have just added a mechanic where she does 50-70% less damage against units with less hp than her and increase her s3 to 4 turn cool down. That way she still can kill high hp targets but will do minimal damage against low hp target's.

[@ellieg8773]

see the journal again at 21:49 he hasn't done any of adin's elemental changes

[@jinjaesan9622]

need more of those RTA sessions mr squirrel very fun to watch

[@jpsadie1172]

Nerfs aren't a good thing , people are saying look at summoner's wars , but what they don't know people leave the game whenever there's a nerf on summoner's war 😂.

[@zomburt1626]

On the people that are crying they used their selector on hwa is so stupid, you get ANOTHER SELECTOR with the same heroes as before. You either a) keep hwa because shes still a good unit even after nerfs, or b) choose a unit you dont have or want imprints in

[@mizusenpai5075]

I Spent $400 to get my A.Ravi and i would be ok for a nerf but not to Hwa Lvl. 1. A.Ravi i= Change passive to be like a weaker water origin so she want heal on non-Dps atacks & get ride of the injury on S1 2.HandGuy = 1 turn CD on Passive 3. AOL = Lower the chance of Silence & CR Push on Passive 4.C.Lilias = Build some counter ( Roana, MB.Dom, any Cleanser or the assassin twins( Cid. Coli ) 5. Rimuru = get rid of the color Blind S3

[@clarencemartin7186]

I think Hwayoung needed a nerf hands down one of the most annoying units in the game.Also try to work on getting Blood Moon Haste really fun unit.

[@neito.m.6741]

I sit on the fence about the Nerf. I'm fine for it, just if you nerf her. Theres a list SG has to do. Aravi and Rimuru being the top 2 along side Hwa. Those 3 units are absurdly strong. If they don't nerf others, than I'ma against it. So it depends what SG does, was it warranted? Sure. But what about xyz? Ethier way. This video funny asf, love the sarcastic tone, those E7WC pros are even worst than you you man. Pre banning an RGB, what peasants.

[@chargersfan0560]

Doubt they nerf aravi or clilias and clilias/belian/hwa was the majority prebans. Aravi/hwa were mostly the first picks. So lets nerf them all 🏃.

[@timothyduffy8538]

You might have some valid points but your attitude is unwarranted. I subscribe to you for the good info and your insights, but if this is how you respond to those that disagree then I, and probably others, don't need to follow you anymore.

[@yr-ns3gu]

I don't think they will be nerfing Aravi, it's quite easy to imagine a new hero that would be a counter to her, and what I would want to see is some mage with single target 100% resource reduction and a unique debuff that seals the effects of the artifact. While a counter to Hwayoung would be basically just Hwayoung 2.0 of water or ml element.

[@kylemenos]

Why are people upset about this change? makes no sense she's stupid broken even Simllegate agrees and they dont wanna nerf anything ever. If anything the expections for compensation is too high in this game and prevents the game from seeing the changes it has to get to be fair. Notice I said fair not balanced. Balanced is not fun. you need broken things in the game to have fun but She had her time.

[@Khorou]

still glad she got the boot

[@theroguenob]

I know what I said i just wanted to learn what to build , I've been using my charolette again even though I have to make time to play RTA since it takes double the time but she works and its fun. Kayron is good against a lot of units not just earth with his buffs. Also rem definitely does not counter her , I see a rem in arena I just tunnel hwayoung into her. they'll never nerf aravi, with a brand new skin and the resent banner its just now way, they just do a moon bunny for her as they do cilias, but straze is good if ravi is the only tank. Maybe they could make pov a knight and soul weaver exclusive that would let other units like ML pavel or other already strong DPS be more easily fight her. for Hwayoung as long as shes good against belian, ras, cc armin ,and fcc ill be happy. That being said I want another ken buff, because rip my boy he's been dead for at least 3 years

[@Grimreaperb19]

Written before watching the video: As someone who did not have Hwa nor really want her for anything more then meta relevance, as shown by me picking Alencia over her in the selector, I believe that nerfs were needed to make the meta more diverse but they also over did them. I think the change on her s3 was needed but everything else went too far. The only other thing I would have changed was her survivability on her s2 which could have been something as simple as an adjustment to her barrier.

[@-8h-]

The only people crying about the hwayoung nerf are bad players that relied on her as a crutch. That or they sheeped to the op and mindlessly wasted things like bottle of knowledge on a non-limited artifact. Just remember that for the past 7 months you get to keep all of the benefits and rewards that she won for you but you probably didn't earn.

[@keenjimma]

I wish they nerfed Hwayoung by only letting me play Hwayoung.

[@businessaccount-h6v]

Your first counter arguement is not finished yet tho, like sure, at e7wc ppl first pick or preban her but did they win after picking her? what is her winrate in the tournament overall?

[@pix1943]

Did they pick Hwa because they wanted to lose? The argument is finished.

[@LethophobesAmvNostalgia]

I don't have a horse in this race as I suck at PvE, let alone PvP. I'm sure that for a game that places so much emphasis on PvP aspects, buffs/nerfs are necessary to keep a healthy gaming environment. My only concern is that because they depend on gacha to make money, I think this is shooting themselves in the foot. For all the long-time players who already have every unit and have amassed a huge war-chest of bookmarks, they're not spending any money to pull. And for newer players who might spend money, it is no longer worth chasing exciting/powerful units because there is the question: "Is this unit TOO good? Will it get nerfed and then I get given a selector for units I don't want." Similar to DrSquirrel's Hwayoung conundrum of "too little HP/too much HP," "too bad/too good." At this point, the only units worth chasing are the ones you like for reasons other than gameplay. At least in the past, with Smilegate's statement that they won't nerf, there was a sense of security that even if things changed, it would be for the better. Now, even if I THINK ML5s are "safer" from nerfs, I no longer think they are safe. And the potential nerf may be so bad that the unit becomes useless in PvE as well. (I realize many don't care about it, but I do. And it still makes up a significant portion of the content). Honestly, I think they would have done less harm if they just banned certain units from PvP, or restricted their use (to 1-2 rounds or something) like how TCGs work. The unit retains their functionality and is no longer omnipresent. I don't know if this marks the death of Epic7, but I think it's likely to lead to a downturn in revenue.

[@zaknevers]

A different content creator brought up that her win rate was around 50% but I think the 100% first pick or pre ban is more of a sign of overall usefulness. Just because 50% of the time she can be beat (even tho realistically 50% on a 100% picked unit is actually a good rating) means you have to completely draft around her and SG specifically said they didn't like how much of an overall impact to the game she had, singlehandedly. So it's either pick her, ban her or build things specifically to beat her. It's not even building or drafting to counter units LIKE her. It's to specifically counter her. I'm not high enough ranking to have to face the busted versions so I can't say. But I like your argument vs the temper tantrums being thrown by others 🤷‍♂️

[@adithyachandrasekar5682]

"Facts don't care about your feelings" - Ben Shapiro

[@normnavx]

I have a question on point 1 Is she banned when first picked? Either way I believe she needed a Nerf Just because of how easy she was to gear to kill most things.

[@phantomz1941]

They target the hero that can deal with the busted hero cuz huwa is one of ther rare unite that can deal with a.ravi and buffed remuru and rem billian it will be fine if they nerfed here with a.ravi it would be a bit fine but i still insist that the nerf kill the unite and btw i dont think that the majority was complaining about huwa as much as the ml heros

[@SwarmHost96]

The thing for me was if her S1 misses, the tick wont proc (That was the intended nerf)....i find that dealing with evasion RNG is BS. Just my opinion

[@SuperPrinny886]

Not much an controversy. Nerfs are required to balance a games as much as buffs. Yulha is a green Krau in a way so putting resources into her is still not a waste. Uberius Tooth isn't nerfed so no refund on it. Still works as intended Adapt- okay then adapt to the Hwayoung nerfs.

[@bruhbirbz600]

Most of the common fire DPS r aoe so her situation is different to a Krau bait where earth units are fairly equal in terms of aoe and singles. Uberius doesn't match well with any other heroes other than Gunther. That's a wasted artifact before Hwa existed. The Hwa nerf were all the suggestions put into one nerf, thats not how you nerf a unit, thats how you kill them. And this isn't even the first they've done huge nerfs at once which killed the units.

[@YuihiraAlice]

Quick Comment : I don't use Hwa but I fight her, and my only disagreement with the devs here is that I didn't want them to hit her damage that much, what I wanted was to hit her utilities, i.e. Self-cleanse, built in damage reduc, barrier every turn and free immunity after a self-cleanse. It's overloaded and meanwhile other units who we're made for also dealing damage, almost always loses like 80 percent of their value after the said damage, while hwa maintains hers without a downtime.

[@OmnishitpostENG]

If hwayoung is broken Thats means aravi is even more broken since she was designed to kill her yet she fail Her nerf wasn't a thing. If aravi didn't get nerf too If somehow aravi didn't get nerf. Then i can proudly say SMILEGATES IS RACIST towards cleaver

[@aeriawindsor4722]

While releasing Cavel, Lua, and Aelena that all are cleaver units? And buffing Straze? I'll call that favouritism toward cleavers.

[@OmnishitpostENG]

@@aeriawindsor4722 like thats gonna make cleaver strong somehow lol, we still play high risk games anyway. How about Belian, and politis we never say belian is broken even though she is. Thats shit still forces cleavers to play non souls cleave Meanwhile when hwayoung exist, bruiser didn't change their playstyle and go complain about hwa is broken Unlike bruiser. Cleaver doesn't complain and actually build a unit that release to deal with broken unit thats why we have non souls cleave because we support smilegates lol. And not everyone have straze or cpavel or even their gear Cleave favouritism ? Yeah copium

[@aeriawindsor4722]

New units = More tool options, most cleavers are permaban Belian and picking Aravi / Politis anyway. Hwayoung exist, you're forced to play cleave or using Stene, this alone already makes you pick disadvantages. "Cleaver doesn't complain" how ironic, if you're support smilegates then SG decision on nerfing Hwayoung is completely justified. Cope harder.

[@OmnishitpostENG]

@@aeriawindsor4722 lmao. Have you even cleave ?. You think building those units require no times to build or even no bookmarks? Why don't you cleaves lol ? You know hwayoung is weak against cleave. Oh i know.Its easier to complain hwayoung is broken. Than go from bruiser to cleaver for bruiser player. Because bruiser is easier to do

[@OmnishitpostENG]

@@aeriawindsor4722 yeah, forget belian kid, or politis kid ? Have any cleaver even say she is broken ? Have she got nerf yet ? we cleaver invent no souls cleave. Now you mad at it ? Because we actually do some shit not complaining. And now hwa gets nerf i know its fair for aravi to get nerf because thats how we play this game. Just complain to get what you want nowadays How about the bruiser player when hwayoung exist ? Complaining hwa and didn't do a shit to counter her. So shut the fuck up. Smilegates give a counter for hwa. And still complains about hwa And you say cleaver favouritism ? Cope harder

[@alangrg4491]

I hate how cleave players like YDCB always says she isn't a broken unit,man the turn 2 players in E7 exists as well ,we don't have 3+,300 speed units to just nuke Hwa before she moves.Speed is a luxury not for everyone.Espcially if you are a banshee player.

[@asherheiwada5056]

I didn't wanna admit it for the longest time because I might get attacked by his fans, but I feel like YDCB is so based 💀

[@alangrg4491]

@@asherheiwada5056 well alot of players do look upto him for RTA and believe whatever he says.

[@swag8989]

@@alangrg4491 To be fair,ydcb said he had no problem,he never said others had no problems with her.He also said that hwa need a nerf but they might overdid it.

[@swag8989]

@@alangrg4491 so his opinion is not that wrong

[@alangrg4491]

@@swag8989 hmm he did say you don't even see Hwa in RTA anymore,did you watch his recent twitch video talking about his opinion on Hwa nerf? I haven't seen him saying she needs a nerf.He don't think her as a problem as a whole as he cleaves ofcourse.

[@danielmiller3781]

I think people who got mad mostly spend money to triple S her (or just get a pity), not to mention making gear and +30 artifacts. Also those who use her as main DPS, people get upset when they are forced to change/adapt.

[@kylominogo]

To just note on your e7wc comparison. To be fair that's a pretty self contained meta and in that environment, slow and bruiser is safest and most common obviously. Hwa shits on that playstyle expeditiously so of COURSE she'd be fp or brebanned. That isn't really the case for most RTA matches though where people tend to be more risky and gamble more often. In the e7wc There were the occasional aggro/cleave drafts but you also didn't go into whether they won the games with hwa fp or not and cement your case. Just thought I'd mention that.

[@DrSquirrel]

It doesn't really matter. The point I was trying to make wasn't whether or not she won, but that top players consistently consider her a top tier threat, as represented by the bans/first picks. Which is in stark contrast to the idea that she's "easy to deal with for experienced players." The point wasn't that she's unbeatable and wins 100% of her matches (she doesn't). It may be a self contained meta, but it's the top. That's where games are and should be balanced. You can't balance around the lower tiers because it's not a level playing field. Half of the balance issues there just come from players not knowing what they're doing fully yet. The gear gap between different players in Champion is massive, not to mention the heroes they have available and their ability to draft correctly is all over the place. At the top, you get to see how drafts go between players who essentially have every hero and very competitive gear. That's where hero imbalances become far more obvious.

[@kylominogo]

@@DrSquirrel but doesn't whether or not they win the match play into the point of whether the top players can adapt to her successfully or not? They consider her a top tier threat cause of the meta these championship matches always default to which is 120khp with supports and tanks with 1 DPS which is most often a bruiser. I just dont believe that we should be aiming to balance according to e7wc results because of the fact that it's self contained and 90+% of the drafts are standard/bruiser. If that's then considered the strongest/safest playstyle and hwa was the best answer to that then I think gutting her like they did was the wrong call. I agree they should balance based on emp+ RTA results but watching elvemage and other streams play against these very same players like yunduan, light, etc. I'm not really seeing hwa that often. She's prebanned and picked every now and then but NOWHERE near the likes of aravi or Cilias which is quite literally 100% of games. I'm in the sg went way too hard on her camp and think the s3 scaling hp fix or s1 fix was fine but she was a nice answer to the 100k hp drafts that will potentially see a resurgence now if changes like this keep being made.

[@alangrg4491]

Well most in normal RTA still prefer to go standard as not everyone can cleave like YDCB.Speed is a luxury.

[@kylominogo]

@@alangrg4491 it's just the same people who " can't cleave " also likely don't have every relevant unit in the game properly built or counter picks on hand. Don't have every speed imprint built and ready to even try and contest turn 1. And for those people who are in that stage then you just have to keep playing and progress. I'm not saying she wasn't very strong and I was okay with nerfing her, but THIS much is kind of stupid tbh.

[@alangrg4491]

@@kylominogo it's not that we don't build speed imprints,it's just we know we will lose anyway to speed as even 300 speed players know they are not good enough as there are 310 speed units and Speed RNG exists.I don't think game was made for only cleavers to be at Legend and Standard players to be at Masters.

[@devontesledge8985]

The thing is they nerfed her too hard that’s the problem they made her unusable for some. And some people spent a lot of money building her. Smilegate fucked us over.

[@MrAverus]

Until we see the new mods, I'm not convinced the nerfs are as bad as some people think. Seems like they are making her worse vs evasion and ice units. Trying to focus her on her original purpose by narrowing in on the HP ranges that she one-shots. If she can still wipe out HP bruisers like A.Ravi and Alencia, then the nerfs did their job.

[@MrAverus]

I should wait until the end of the video to comment XD

[@Gustyfn]

I remember how angry everyone got when they nerfed ml ara and ml baal. Everyone recalled and got selectors just got to abuse the units to their maximum potential and then get to move onto the next broken ml5s with those selectors. lmaoo

[@justsam100]

I think they went a bit too far with the nerf, BUT a nerf was indeed nedeed. I would be happy if they kept the CR push on S1 and kept the S3 as a 4 turn cd, that's all she needed. The extra damage nerf on S1 and S3 is fine by me, she hit way too hard. Also she one-shot mid and low hp targets due to her interaction with Uberius, not because of the damage scaling on her kit.

[@emognr87]

I really think that she didn't deserve the nerf, she was weak and not meta, she previously need a buff (ironic mode on)

[@iamlza]

Im on with the nerfs even tho I love hwa, i mean imho e7 need to nerf their hero's man and yes, i dont think she's dead... she still able to do her actual job that is to kill tanks p/s: Dingmongu is a kid

[@kingkaiser95]

Tbh we all do our reading on the can

[@Puffsmoke876]

Am a hwayoung stand i need her

[@wackywacko808]

C. Lilias is tamed compared to her but the 2 together just make Hwa unbearable.

[@LordTaju]

I didn't really have a problem with hwa.. until two days ago when she missed my full hp eda and still killed her... Glad they're nerfing her.

[@kedargordon1788]

You hated green violet too so.............

[@zyphil]

And Violet was so dominant for the majority of his post buff duration.

[@someoneelse4939]

@@zyphil He'll be dominant again without Hwa to counter him.

[@zyphil]

@@someoneelse4939 no he won't. Zahhak, Milim, Solitaria, S.Tene, Landy, Charlotte, and Seaseria. And if hwa gets less of an appearance in RTA and almost everywhere else, then S.Tene, Landy, Zahhak, and Solitaria will see more usage since they can (with the exception of Zahhak), can threaten A.Ravi pretty bad.

[@someoneelse4939]

@@zyphil We already had units like S.Tene, Landy and Fire Charlotte when Violet was all the rage. They work, but aren't as effective as Hwa was against dodge units. That said, I hope you're right....and if you're not, we'll find a way to deal with it, as usual.

[@rikhart144]

OK, first topic: you well know there are diffrent levels of players and not all of us see the problem the same way, top player may have their opinion but lower player may be happy about hwa because helps them somehow, also, didn't we have that same problem with AOL?, first pick first ban? and later on that changed? Second: yeah, agree she was too easy to build and sadly they have being realising units like that with the excuse to "help new players", because dear lord save them from farm gear a year before get into RTA lol Third: She end up killing everything but Aravi/proof so for that reason maybe the nerf is OK Fourth: wouldn't matter what was the nerf, people still be mad about it, and agree, one nerf is better that 2 or more, may complain here is the timming, doesn't take 9 months to realize that a change was needed. Fifth: collateral damage, but I mean, use uberius on something else

[@bagonsoul]

Her nerf was needed. That’s all there is to it. I respect those who disagree but let’s be real, she needed it.

[@TheFameMonster7XD]

Dont afraid of being honest.

[@Aparent22]

From a business p.o.v, you are right, nerfing an RGB unit to test the waters is a start ( they can adjust her over time with an EE after all ) but imo, if they nerfed both A Ravi and Hwayoung togheter, hardly anyone would've complained. Heck, announce reworks for Yulha, Taeyou and Coli ( all 3 heroes were made/reworked to counter Hwayoung ) in the next balanced patch just to sweeten the deal. As for A Ravi, just take away her heal on her passive and adjust the scaling on her S3, just a bit. What would you change on her ?

[@rex.raymond]

Since we're in the subject of nerfing Hwayoung, could you make a video like this one discussing what route they should go for in nerfing Aravi and the other disasters like Clilias?

[@gerrrz]

He already gave his nerf ideas in his april fools "patch notes"

[@aeriawindsor4722]

Drafting Bdom against Cilias?

[@timphiz]

I'm fine with nerfs IF they're willing to nerf obviously broken ML heroes as well. I guess nerfing ARavi when she's currently on a banner and about to get her skin is out of the question. But how long will they let her slide? Will they give out a selector? Insert your personal least favorite hero here. If they're only nerfing RGBs they're just making the game more p2w. Starting to roll out nerfs with a hero that everyone who has been playing the game longer than a month owns seems a bit backward.

[@trumantran169]

i'll just plop the hwa gear onto ml khawazu or carrot, bless hwa nerfs

[@shawnbrewski481]

how about number 6. they give us a free five star and then Nerf the most popular one. what a setup

[@RedRocket4000]

Smile Gate needs to stop paying attention to comments except for questions for their polling firm to use. Then use their pro pollers using standard polling procedures to get answers of how popular something is. Ten percent of your player base being outraged can seam to be 80 percent because they dominate comments and some will use bots to increase the comments. And polls that you request input are better than counting comments but still far off of true opinion.

[@MrKamilNinjaPL]

They nerfing hwayoung right before slime collab. Kinda Sus they want to boost Rimuru sales

[@xFlow777]

im gonna respond to your point number 1, that she isnt broken at all and doesnt need nerfs That actually happens to be true, hwayoung wasn't broken at all, she was designed to counter high hp bruisers, and thats what she did, what devs didnt take into account is that uberius tooth existed. Without uberius tooth, hwayoung cant do all that much, she can somewhat nuke a really high hp unit with her s3 but even that i doubt it, just take uberius tooth off and you will not be able to kill 25k hp a ravi on seed. That tooth is what gave her that extra free 10k+ damage that puts her overboard. Again her s1 cant do shit to squishy units without uberius tooth, you will not be able to 1 shot anybody that has 10-12k hp without uberius tooth, hell green cidd does more damage with his s1 than hwayoung does with her s1. Uberius tooth is the problem, if they nerf hwayoung, uberius tooth is just gonna lie dormant until the next "hwayoung". Fix the root of the problem not the symptoms. Dr. Squirrel, you have a problem with hwayoung because your playstyle is bruiser and you like to tank, not because she's broken, she's just really good against your playstyle. At the same time cleavers hate belian and AOL because its good against their play style. You cant demand nerfs to heroes that are good against what you like to do.

[@poiumty]

If an artifact is absolutely fine on 100% of heroes minus this one hero where it's OP, you don't nerf the artifact. You nerf the hero. And it's not just a matter of hwayoung being "good against bruiser", he's given plenty of objective reasons why hwayoung is too good against pretty much everybody. That you decided to ignore all of them to concentrate on some ignorant take isn't on him.

[@xFlow777]

@@poiumty its not fine on 7k attack, single target attacks only hero, how many of those do you know? i know only 1, hwayoung. Take off uberius tooth from your hwayoung and try to kill a squishy unit, you wount, hell you wount even kill an average A RAVI. Also she's not good agains "everything" she sucks against anything faster than her. Thats why cleavers arent scared of her one bit.

[@poiumty]

@@xFlow777 I have a feeling you're only reading what you want to read. Damn, her one weakness is heroes over 270 speed? Set up in such an order as to specifically synergize with each other? Damn. What a weakness. Pack it up boys, Hwayoung dies to specific setups of multiple heroes. Not broken at all.

[@xFlow777]

@@poiumty her one weakness is every single opener in the game, AND followup openers, there is also a machanic called cr push, you don't have to be 270 on everything, and you're not going to run into 260+ 7k attk hwayungs too often, if you run into a whale then you have bigger problems than hwayoung. She's really good against slow bruisers in the other hand, so stop bringing ancias, senyas, handguy, belians, fccs, chouxs, a ravis into her and expect to have a good time. And if you do plan to do that then preban her like cleavers have been doing with belian and aol for almost a year now and stop bitching that she's too op, you don't see cleavers bitch about belian and aol.

[@DrSquirrel]

Saying that everything faster than her counters her is nonsense. If that's an argument, Aravi is also fine because a turn 1 cleave can also blow up Aravi in the opener and she's countered by "every unit faster than her". Even if Uberius tooth didn't exist, your math is just incorrect. A 7k attack, attack buffed Hwayoung could just use something like Portrait and still one tap a tank easily without tooth. Feel free to check a damage calc. In practice tooth doesn't matter for her S3 that much, half the time it kills without it proccing. Tooth is what makes her S1 broken against squishy low hp units, its trivial on her S3.

[@spookyboo4291]

Nerf Hwa =🤡 that pulls Yulha

[@timothyyap5945]

Nerf on Hwa is good. I have her at SS and I’m happy that she’s getting nerfed

[@spookyboo4291]

I mean SG already put so many hero that counter Hwayoung on the table，Colli，Yulha，or even Taeyou if anyone who remember who the hell he is，and SG nerf Hwayoung after so many player choose her from selector，that is some dumb move

[@ArianGendar]

are they REALLY counter Hwayoung on RTA?

[@spookyboo4291]

@@ArianGendar Nobody use Hwayong in RTA, at least I have not see a single Hawyoung for the last two and half month, if you are so afraid, just pre-banned her, not a big deal

[@aeriawindsor4722]

LMAO, are you even a Champion or above ? Everyone will ALWAYS picks her if she's not prebanned, except of your enemy FP Ran and ban Belian, that's the sign that they're a cleaver.

[@spookyboo4291]

@@aeriawindsor4722 If you are so fking afraid of her, just ban her, you got 6 ban position and you cant fit Hwa in it? Stright trolling man.

[@spookyboo4291]

@@aeriawindsor4722 If there is another unit in that game is more threatening than her, than why not nerf them?

[@djovani98]

Hwayoung did need a nerf but this is just way too much

[@KingCrusaderIV]

I mean Aravi counters like Cpavel, straze, stene completely dunks on aravi are much more effective than hwa counters like opsig and choux that's why she's such a menace. The thing about aravi is that she's slow like 28k aravis are like 170-190 speed and most people can deal with her unlike this fast 7k atk 1.7k def kick girl.

[@memorycurse1342]

not a fan of using derogatory terms like s.lut or skank tho i understand the frustration (just isn't a good look). This was a good video outside of that and i completely agree. We'll have to see how the dmg is but i think she'll still be very viable. I'm just glad you can use evasion units again with her. Also able to miss a Rem and still one shot seems a little counter intuitive huh

[@mikegibson5386]

I got her and use her alot in arena. The Heifer needs a nerf

[@anthonyharrison7728]

How I currently deal with Hwa is pick her with 1st pick or pre-ban her if I don't have 1st pick.