The Greatest Chess Games Ever - Part 1: Pre-1920 | Dojo Talks

[@patateha]

Suggestion for the next Dojo Talks top 5 list: David’s most controversial comments

[@MattduCouloir]

David Pruess sure convinced me to play over that Lasker-Alekhine game, that game looks amazing.

[@johnmarcellino5034]

This is dope content and you guys seem like chill dudes

[@gmpillo604]

“First, then, Paul Morphy was never so passionately fond, so inordinately devoted to chess as is generally believed. An intimate acquaintance and long observation enable us to state this positively. His only devotion to the game, if it may be so termed, lay in his ambition to meet and to defeat the best players and great masters of this country and of Europe. He felt his enormous strength, and never, for a moment, doubted the outcome. Indeed, before his first departure for Europe he privately and modestly, yet with perfect confidence, predicted to us his certain success, and when he returned he expressed the conviction that he had played poorly, rashly; that none of his opponents should have done so well as they did against him. But, this one ambition satisfied, he appeared to have lost nearly all interest in the game.” - Charles de Maurian

[@ivanrivas9094]

This is wonderful guys. Can not wait to see the others you have on line.

[@ChessDojo]

You're in for a treat!

[@briankaren604]

When David says if you take the top 5 of any players games they will look amazing. Bear in mind, unlike the others on this list, as well as David, Morphy played the vast majority of his games in a 2 year period from 1857-1859. Yet, as a 2100 player he created such classics? If you randomly select a Morphy game, it nearly always is beautiful. Admittedly, this is partially due to his opposition but it isn't his fault that he was born into that era. Anyway, great show. And to David's credit I was not very familiar with the Lasker - Alekhine games which were fascinating.

[@miguelzialcita5366]

I am a recent listener to your podcast and it’s great stuff! Just wanted to add a comment regarding the Alekhine-Lasker 2R vs. R + N endgame. Alekhine himself, in his collection of best games while commenting on his win vs. Vidmar (Bled 1931), credits Lasker for giving him a valuable endgame lesson. In the game vs. Vidmar, he had the 2 rooks and was able to convert it into a win.

[@charliew830]

Great Content!! This is the stuff we love from you guys!

[@laurentsaltoflife9267]

Great video and great format.

[@IB4theAIB]

The opera ain’t over until Morphy sacrifices his queen

[@southernrun9048]

Great idea for the series of games. Wealth of knowledge put into these and what will be an amazing collection to have for study.

[@connected_passed_pawns]

Really surprised to not see the Evergreen Game in any of your list. Other than that, great list.

[@BillRatio]

I'm not the type of person to laugh out loud at something when I'm alone just watching youtube. I laughed out loud when Kostya said "The Great Philidor... who was very influential."

[@andreitiberiovicgazdovici]

In the Soviet school of chess, until the 80s at least, for games with specific structures (therefore strategic rather than based on tactics) and for endgames (above all rook/pawns, king/pawns) Philidor, Rubinstein were studied and Capablanca. So I would say that he has been quite influential, even having schemes and openings with his name to this day

[@TravelingMooseMedia]

What are you talking about? If philidor never lived, chess would be 50-100 years behind. His book was highly regarded for over a century and he was important for teaching endgame theory

[@enriquevecerra4651]

Excelente colección.Steinizt-Bardeleben,la mejor!.gracias Chess Dojo por el vídeo.Saludos.

[@screamingliner]

Quite happy to see Steinitz-von Bardeleben so highly regarded. It's one of my favorites, and it's so aesthetically pleasing.

[@michaelf8221]

What a fantastic set of games. I hadn't seen every single one of these before, but they were each better than the last! One small point - I think Paulsen - Morphy, 1857 and Bird - Morphy, 1858 were Morphy's best games just because of how fantastically he puts the squeeze on his opponents (as black!) before unleashing a beautiful combination. Yes the Opera game is iconic, but is it truly the best of all time?

[@AAa-iw7zd]

I love these guys maturity in this friendly banter! It's a high and secret art to be human in the real sense of the word. The love is there hold on to it guys. Love you too ! ❤

[@Chess_Improvement]

thank you guys for the show, please consider the same factor all together next time (original ideas, tactics and strategic factors, strong opponent . . .)

[@joeldick6871]

Haha, Kostya! I like the call-out about what I told you on Twitch about 6.Qb3 being more accurate in the Morphy game... I still stand by it. I've played this a few times in correspondence against a friend, and Qb3 has just a touch more sting.

[@ChessDojo]

Seems completely irrelevant to the game!

[@ashwathraj5021]

Great video :)

[@desmonsflorent]

Making such a classification is often a delicate and arbitrary exercise. I agree with most of your choices. Nevertheless, I'm surprised not to find anthology games like Pillsbury vs Lasker 1895 or Lasker vs Napier 1904... But it's nice to see your choices and to rediscover these jewels. So, thank you for that !

[@ChessDojo]

Love Pillsbury - Lasker! We recently looked at the other Lasker game and it was quite special too. -Kostya

[@joeldick6871]

Not all Morphy Games are 1858. Many of great hits are in 1857, at the American Chess Congress, where he played Paulsen in the final round. He also made another trip to France in 1961, during the Civil War, to visit his sister in Paris. Although retired from professional chess, he did play some of the great French players, some of them whom he had already met in 1858.

[@CitronMandX]

Completely agree with Jesse on his choice of #1. This was the game that made me want to play chess more seriously. It really spoke to me and still does. David Preuss needs to show some respect for his elders!

[@connormonday]

Is there a book you guys like that goes over the classic "everyone knows them" games from this time period?

[@charliew830]

GM-RAM by IM Rashid Ziyatdinov lists, with moves but no commentary, 59 must know games, 53 of which are before 1920.

[@connormonday]

@@charliew830 Thanks charlie

[@chesscomdpruess]

Ben Johnson highly recommended the Mammoth Book of the World's Greatest Chess Games, and it has a lot of these games. I was just starting to review its contents after our talk with him, and the game selection seems to be on-point.

[@connormonday]

@@chesscomdpruess Thanks a lot for that recommendation

[@connormonday]

wow, $2.99 on kindle for 145 games....

[@jackm4457]

I first saw Steinitz - von Bardeleben when I was 10 years old and around 1300 in strength. I was both overjoyed ("Hey, ... all I have to do is use my initiative and build upon it when my opponent's king is stuck in the middle) and dismayed ("I'm never, ever going to see some of Steinitz' moves.) At that point, I knew I could become a good chess player, but never become a great one.

[@SenatorBluto]

You figured this out at the age of 10? I'm old and still not willing to concede there are some moves I wouldn't be able to spot.

[@jackm4457]

@@SenatorBluto I'm now old as well, but the past few decades have only reinforced the impression I had at the age of 10. I got very good (>2000 OTB), but this game is beyond a Puzzle-Rush monkey like myself. Steinitz proves himself to be a chess biathelete in this game.

[@letsmakeit110]

The thing about the Opera game that makes it so famous is that it comes with a story. Most great games are just 'this guy was playing in a tournament and he wanted to do well in the tournament so he played really well' That's good enough for chess diehards but where's the intrigue? Why should a casual player care? I love how Morphy was just enjoying a relaxing day out until he was accosted by beavis and butthead so he beat them as fast as possible. GMs like Daniel, hE sHoULd HaVe TaKEn oN b7, Naroditsky completely miss the point.

[@ChessDojo]

Where did Danya say that?

[@DarthtigerBcn]

I haven't seen the video yet. I'm going to guess which games have been chosen or I hope they have been chosen: McDonnell-Labourdonnais, Rubinstein-Rotlewi, Anderssen-Kieseritsky, Anderssen-Dufresne, Steinitz- Von Bardeleben, Zukertort-Blackburne Morphy-Bird, Bernstein-Capablanca, Capablanca-Marshall, Nimzowitsch-Tarrasch, Lasker-Bauer, Pillsbury-Lasker

[@ChessDojo]

Solid list!

[@davidfranklin5426]

Great list. Some other candidates: McDonnell-Labourdonnais, 1834 (the "space invaders" game with Black pawns on d2, e2, and f2) Nimzowitsch-Tarrasch, 1914 (incredible double-bishop sac by the "stodgy" Tarrasch) Lasker-Napier, 1904 (wild and far-from-perfect complications resolving to a winning endgame) Rubinstein-Lasker, 1909 (the famous Qc1! followed by an exemplary Rubinstein rook ending)

[@chesscomdpruess]

All four of those games were among the games I considered. Of them, Tarrasch and Rubinstein were in my top 10, but we only covered top 6 this day.

[@Socrates...]

Fischer said that Morphy was the greatest player of all time in terms of pure talent, and David says that his own best games are better than Morphy.

[@postmasterpez]

I would have ordered the games in 4 eras. 1. The Romanic era (Before Steinitze). 2. Steinitze-Alechin/Euwe 3. Botvinik-Fischer 4. Karpov- now

[@kylen6430]

I’m half way through…if Lasker Capa 1914 isn’t on this list, I’m raging

[@kylen6430]

Lol, literally seconds later, kostya saved the day

[@Nick-ih3xg]

the way jesse messes with david is hilarious

[@ImMarkiee]

I love tofu 😢

[@Ebobster]

Seems top 10 would make the list more representative of the gems from these eras

[@ashwathraj5021]

Wow it’s David’s time to shine 😂

[@guyscounter]

That's too small a font size! Should watch this episode with my 50" TV!

[@ChessDojo]

Good idea!

[@DaydreamVacations]

Jesse missed a great opportunity when discussing the Opera Game at #1. He said it appeals to all players whether they’re rated 600 or 1800. He should have said whether they’re rated “1900 or 2100”. 🤣 Excellent comedic opportunity missed.

[@Sacmater]

One of the epic Lasker-Pillsbury clashes should have been included. Andersen-Kieseritzky was a coffeehouse game, played under coffee house rules and coffee house conditions.

[@ChessDojo]

Too many good games to count!

[@Eidenhoek]

You shut your slanderous mouth if you dare shame THE Immortal game.

[@ketchuploverful]

My defense to Qe7 is Qe2 hoping for Nxe2 Bxe2

[@gm2407]

I always enjoyed Horowitz vs Morphy in the Dutch when Morphy wins as black.

[@darrylkassle361]

Might be opinion however you can still get upset because if there are criteria you are basing it on and everybody agrees to those criteria then it somewhat becomes more objective and it's easier to dismiss certain choices if they don't accord to the criteria. However when its open ended and there are no real criteria yeah you can not really get upset

[@Eidenhoek]

Anderssen better be on here twice, at the top.

[@kylen6430]

I think it’s strange that Kostya said that if Lasker-capa 1914 was against a weaker player, it would be lower on the list, then proceeds with the opera game…

[@kylen6430]

Lol, as Pruess would point out…I gotta stop commenting mid vid

[@ChessDojo]

There were a few criteria for choosing the best game, not just level of opposition. For instance Jesse's "it must be a cult classic" was an interesting metric

[@kylen6430]

@@ChessDojo yeah I get it. It’s a tough task really. I just thought the timing of comment plus the next game was ironic

[@dastankuspaev9217]

was duke beginner?

[@chesscomdpruess]

I'm not sure, but he was certainly a weak player... as were almost all players back then, since there was minimal diffusion of chess knowledge.

[@davidfranklin5426]

Interesting that David’s top 3 games are Lasker wins, but he ranked Lasker only #9 all-time, below where Jesse and Kostya put him.

[@chesscomdpruess]

I've been wondering if I should have put him slightly higher after spending a week playing over tons of his games.

[@MattRadioheadhead]

Huge missed joke opportunity to ask if Jesse's favourite is one of his own?

[@joeldick6871]

I never liked The Immortal Game in terms of instructive value. It's too crazy and too much going on for a beginner (or even for an expert) to understand. You need an engine to get to the bottom of it. Of the "Big Three" (Opera, Immortal, and Evergreen, and add to that, perhaps, Hastings), the one with the most instructive value by far must be The Opera Game.

[@gm2407]

I found it easier to understand after memorizing. But that was a challenge as I don't play King's gambit. I prefer the evergreen game.

[@joeldick6871]

@@gm2407 Yes, I think The Evergreen Game is easier to follow.

[@Eidenhoek]

Oh dude, it's not *instructive* to me. It's pure chess machismo to take *three* pawns, lose *everything*, and STILL just punch someone's lights out. It's *hilarious* and awesome.

[@joeldick6871]

@@Eidenhoek check out McDonnell La Bourdonnais and Alekhine's five queens game.

[@jameswinters5077]

sorry but even if I disagree with david's number 1 I think his list is still best I would prefer jesse's but putting the opera game number 1 I get it with his criteria of it being part of the history but I mean come on compared to some of the absolutely brilliant and beautiful wars of this period the opera game just doesn't stand up

[@yzfool6639]

This kind of chess emasculates me. What's with all this moving your pieces beyond the third rank and not exchanging them. Or not offering draws once you run out of moves you memorized from someone else? Sheer toxic masculine lunacy, that Age.

[@profd65]

Yea, Pruess is better than Morphy...just ask him. I'm waiting for his eight board blindfold simul complete with brilliancies...I'd like to play in it just to warm myself by the fire of his genius. How about it? What an embarrassing tool that guy is.