The Group B Rally Cars Lost To Time | Part 2

[@full-service-history]

PART 1: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gaHMZKaCrsqKnZI

[@tokyosmash]

The son of the Polish Prime Minister had a Stratos? How very bourgeoisie 😆

[@full-service-history]

He was quite big in to racing at the time, I think he had a few other quite un-communist cars at the time too 😄

[@zsitanca]

He had one rally stratos and two practice cars. Crashed two of them and some salvaged parts (engine for example) were used to build Stratopolonez - polonez with mid mounted stratos engine. Edit: I should watch the video before I replied :D

[@Slawo-fb3pc]

In fact he was also a head of OBRSO - FSO factory motorsport department and thanks to the fact, that he was a son of Prime Minister he was able to "organize" good funds for rallying in those sick communistic times.

[@Wok_Agenda]

socialist man not Communist

[@full-service-history]

@@Wok_Agenda apologies, I generalised it for the purpose of linking the Lada, FSO, Skoda and Moskvich together

[@Hammerhead547]

Fun Fact: Over here in north america none other than carol shelby got his mitts on dodge's version of the sunbeam/plymouth horizon at around the same time and worked his magic on it too create one of the most legendary sleeper performance cars of the 80's. He took the humble dodge omni, bored out the engine too 3L and bolted a big garrett turbo onto it (making 275 horsepower) and switched out the standard suspension components for those from the dodge daytona cs turbo, thus creating the Dodge Omni GLH (Goes Like Hell) which went on sale in 1985. He then spent a year developing an evolution version that had 300 horsrpower, handled like a corvette, and could do a sub 8 second run to 60 MPH from a standing start. It went on sale in 1986 as the Dodge Omni GLHS (Goes Like Hell Still). There's a highly modified drag racing version of an '86 GLHS that makes 650 horsepower from its factory engine.

[@full-service-history]

I always thought that GLH-S stood for "Goes Like Hell S'more"?

[@sleepracer5124]

Love the mentions of rallycross and hillclimb, often overlooked how group B continued to race in rallycross for many years after 86. Super cool stuff

[@MrLolx2u]

Ferrari DID in fact thought of bringing the 288 GTO to rallying in Group B after the 308 did well enough and with Lancia still proving a point in 1983 that RWD still works. However by 1984, AWD was getting more reliable for rallying and Ferrari decided to not get involved in rallying with the 288 anymore and focused more on things that they know best, road and track racing.

[@288gto7]

Do you have a source for this? Edit: Actually i just remembered, Nicola Materazzi (the man who made 288 gto and f40) said 288 gto evoluzione had a rally specced motor with lower boost than its track version

[@adammercer6004]

​@288gto7 They did indeed make a rally spec 288 GTO engine but they never did anything with it. The failure of the 308 GT/M project put pay to that.

[@SpeedHackVideos]

Very little is known about these cars but you managed to tell a lot about them! It really shows that the 80s were wild, especially the Eastern bloc cars 😁

[@michaelb6729]

There were no plans to race or homologate the Giocattolo. It's creator, Paul Halstead just wanted to make an Australian Supercar. He was a car dealer, and from the start, Alfa Romeo Australia threatened to pull his dealer licence if he continued with the project. Therefore, only 15 were made.

[@full-service-history]

As I suspected then, the 'Group B' name was just for show (like all the 'Sport' trim levels nowadays)

[@michaelb6729]

​@Studio 2 , he was inspired by the 6C but shoehorned the VL Commodore Group A Holden V8 race engine. He had to source his own Sprint bodies and chassis after Alfa Romeo Australia threatened him. It is a rare icon in Australian automotive history.

[@llmkursk8254]

Even I learned something new here with the GT/M! What a gorgeous looking car It’s honestly a crime that none of these manufacturers will license out their prototypes for video games. I’ve played a game with some of these prototypes (Art of Rally), and just the glimpses of these cars in action is amazing.

[@full-service-history]

Agreed, Art of Rally is a great game for its car list on it's own, let alone the cool visual art style and great OST!

[@skaldlouiscyphre2453]

I believe a few of them make appearances in Rally World 4.0 for rFactor.

[@jusshma]

​@@full-service-history Part 2 was as awesome as the first one! 👏🏼 Btw have you ever heard about the Group B Honda CRX, with 4 individual VFR1100-bike engines? I've found it impossible to find out more about it, however i have the signed plans and drawings for it from -85

[@full-service-history]

@@jusshma 😄 what on earth? I've never heard of that, that's amazing!

[@llmkursk8254]

@@jusshma This is an insane claim. do you have links to the drawings per chance?

[@semird615]

I'll never understand Group B rallying of the 80's, and I son't have to. The amount of funds, engineering and time that went into these is ridicilous. On top of that they hade to make roas going versions as a cherry on top. Just imagine the cars that would've came from Group B if it was never canceled. 40 Years of Rallye homologation monstoers dor the road, as cool as it may sound, it would've made the gema if that time less special today.

[@louislingham2569]

Proper Karen you are 😂😂

[@alexjenner1108]

I remember watching some stages in the Rally of New Zealand a couple of times in the Group B years. Budgets were huge and because there were some long special stages 50 to 95 km, they had helicopter service crews ready to land a mechanic close to a stopped rally car. Things couldn't have gone that way forever, not with super powerful and super light cars and questionable safety. Perhaps if they had started the transition to group S sooner, it might have helped.

[@rayc2680]

So happy you're getting more recognition. Petrolheads will always be curious about the curious past legends.

[@Ryan-31]

Very well made video along with the PT-1, I wish you every success with your channel. I hope you continue with these style of motorsport history videos. You are very good at them.

[@whatsupwithlongnames]

I've been waiting for Part 2, cheers

[@full-service-history]

Yeah, sorry about the delay!

[@tantona9315]

I was a massive fan of rallying back then, however now I don't think that I could name one driver (and the cars, while obviously powerful, are dull).

[@Danger_mouse]

Giacoletto was just sold as a local supercar, I don't believe it was ever meant to be for racing. The factory was half an hour from my home here in Australia. They were a beautiful car in real life (except maybe for some of the horrid 80s colours) 😊

[@Bsc8]

Hi, I read Giocattolo instead of Giacoletto. I'm italian and here the word _Giocattolo_ means _Little Toy Kid._ But when related to cars, if a driver tells you: _"Gran bel giocattolo!" (Really cool giocattolo!)_ it means the car it's super fun to drive and predictable like a go kart. My dad had an Alfa Romeo 164 2.0L Twin Spark, my neighbour owns an Alfa GTV v6 and an Alfa 75 Twin Spark... They describe all their Alfas as _Very Fun Giocattolo._ I'm not sure if this was an intentional naming easter egg from of the old 80s Company with their modified Alfas, or of it's just my imagination 😂

[@Danger_mouse]

@@Bsc8 I know in Australia it was/is always pronounced Gi-cat-a-lo. Probably was intentional then 🙂👍

[@maybenot6075]

How is this channel not bigger? The amount of detail on the cars is rediculous and no other channel comes close! Top job 👌 also regarding the alfa sprint that was also canned due to the lancia 037, both had input from abarth but due to costs and company execs wanting the lancia name in rallying the alfa was cancelled but was supposed to be aimed at circuit racing as you stated however the money needed to pump into the project to develop a winning car outweighed the financial gains possible

[@full-service-history]

Yes, the Ferrari 308 GT/M was also thought to be a bad idea at the time for very similar reasons to the Alfa, as Fiat wanted Abarth-Lancia to be their single rallying marque

[@maybenot6075]

@@full-service-history was there ever a abarth fiat seen after the 131? I know they're was a punto s1600 & s2000 in the late 90s/early 2000s.... also theres a 308 GT/M (assuming the owners added the GT/M "kit") doing demonstrations for club rallying events In the uk, it was a regular at the northwest stages rally before the pandemic

[@full-service-history]

The Abarth-Fiat 500/595 is quite a popular car for the lower Group N classes, but as for top-level rallying the 131 was the last works-team Fiat competing to my knowledge

[@alexjenner1108]

Alfa Romeo had a 6C prototype in 1982 and didn't become part of Fiat group until late 1986. By that stage the Lancia 037 had a reached the end of development, their main rally car was the Delta S4 and the Alfa Romeo racing team was still being run by Autodelta. I'm not sure when Abarth engineers first got involved with the Alfa Romeo team, but it appears that sometime towards the end of the Integrale rally development, engineers from the Lancia rally program moved their focus from rallying to the Alfa Romeo 155 touring car project.

[@andrewarmstrong7254]

Giacottolo was one of the many projects dreamt up by Paul Halstead. He made his money in the early days of IT & sold out to start a car shop, the Toy Shop, specialising in the usual expensive stuff. Giacottolo only built 15 units, of which 13 survive. No way they would ever have had the capacity to build 200, especially given their engines would have had to come from HDT or HSV, which had a job making 200 units PA themselves (PS: HSV wasn't a thing until mid-87 after the Polariser affair). I believe Halstead is working on a low volume V16 powered coupe using the Giacottolo name at the moment.

[@full-service-history]

Ah, apologies about the HSV inaccuracy, I assumed they were much older than that (formed in the 1950s/60s like Shelby). Interesting that they're trying to bring back the Giacottolo name, I can't imagine many people have heard of it with so few cars built - maybe it's more famous within Australia?

[@andrewarmstrong7254]

@@full-service-history It's not on the GT-HO/Monaro strata, but it was unavoidable in the late 80s. I won't bore you with a full rundown of the Polariser & it's role in the divorce of Peter Brock & Holden, but the Holden Dealer Team racing & road car sides were cut off from support from Holden from February 1987. Holden management instituted Plan B, called Tom Walkinshaw & they started Holden Special Vehicles, which did halo versions of Holden models until GM pulled the plug.

[@andrewarmstrong7254]

@@full-service-history Also being fair, most Australian enthusiasts are hazy on those details as well. Great video in any case.

[@PinnacleofRacing]

The Ferrari 308 GT/M was built by Michelotto Automobili and was the successor to the 308 Grp 4 and B. This car only ever did one actual rally and it was the 1984 Rally di Monza. The car was actually on pace with the new Audi Quattro and 037 however the rear clipped a tree and the suspension had to be fixed. After this the car never did another rally and chassis 002 and 003 were sold to collectors and like you stated just did various track days. My friend Franco worked for Michelotto at the time and was a mechanic at the race for the GT/M.

[@Atsah]

That Daihatsu is a beauty. Shame there aren’t more still around on the roads in the U.K.

[@full-service-history]

Yep, yet another victim of the damn scrappage scheme, especially the GTTi and GTi versions

[@bikenavbm1229]

very interesting observation there at the end, lesser than the best drivers driving underdeveloped high performance cars through those crazy crowds! Group B crazy spectacular days, of course point to point todays are quicker over a stage, but from someone that has been in some rally cars and watched a little B's and others including current, the current ones are fast, souless all sounding the same and when covered in dirt all look the same. same computers designing them I suppose, however you chop it, a WRC event today 20 miles up the road I probably would not get my boots on, a hypothetical group B event I would travel a 1000 miles and take my risk of going deaf, getting hit by a stone or even seeing someone hurt, just the way it is, as a Rally Fan I suppose I am lucky to have witnessed just a little of it, good vid thanks for posting .

[@jeremywitt1940]

Talbot Horizon Lotus: This car was designed by Lotus under the name "Project Macho" and used the rear half of a Lotus Esprit turbo chassis welded into the Horizon shell to mount the Esprit engine, gearbox and rear suspension. Front suspension is Sunbeam Lotus reversed. The car is now in the Peugeot museum in Paris.

[@luiwammes4193]

I still remember that FSO Polonaise at the Ypres Rally. We than laughed at it and cheered on our local driver Guy Colsoul in his Opel 400

[@montevallomustang]

I love the old school racing history. Your channel is sure to blow up

[@Blind-Ambition]

I actually had the pleasure of watching the RS200 Pikes Peak do some circuit work. Absolutely insane vehicle that was

[@bootoojzgaming4508]

The Forza motorsport 3 music in the background 👌🏻

[@lalogal]

Great video. Kinda liked the lada. Smart with the integrated extra lights. The Talbot was cool. Remind me a little like the Toyota starlet's that are still racing. The Alfasud/Alfa was beautiful. Omg. The S2 Audi i would love to see 😮. At least i've seen one of these. The RS 200 EVO. At Lyngaas rallycross track in Norway. Martin Schanche. What a legend. 😊 Great video 😊

[@sheba9139]

Love the video, I never knew there were so many planned group b racers that never made it to the stages

[@buckrogers2828]

One of the major issues with Group B was the safety equipment/Build and even Henri Toivenion stated that it wouldn't pass without a death of a driver which tragically was his own. They was getting built slap dash with just make it fast-faster>. And he quoted that both him and Co driver was sitting on fuel tanks which offered no protection in a crash as just steel tanks not fuel cell types and often leaked fumes into the car as they was running some very wild cocktails of fuel! Plus if you go digging somewhere the "Unofficial" power on the Quattro S1 was around a 1000 bhp. Many of the cars esp in Rally cross were able to run at very high BHP. Martin Schanche RS200 was able to go beyond 1000 bhp for short periods and seen him at Brands Hatch heading to finish line hit the button and leave car behind and close on one in front like they was Shopping trolley metro's.

[@CyanRooper]

This was a great video. Now any time I listen to 2500 Racing by Jeremiah Kane, I will immediately think of the Frankencar that is the 'Stratopolonez'.

[@leok3347]

that mid engine quattro that was sighted in czechoslovakia is truly news to me pretty cool information! just that alone makes me thanful for this content! thanks for the efforts

[@sevcaczech5961]

Every good Rally fan here in the Czech Republic, who knows the name Leo Pavlík and knows the term JZD Slušovice, knows about this project. By the way, the pictures are from the Czech magazine Svět motorů "The world of motors", which wrote about the Audi development project for the S group. The test polygon in Slušovice was especially well known among fans in Zlín region. It was a period when everyone knew the name Harald Demuth, etc. Of course, among younger fans who only follow modern WRC and cars like the Fabia R5 etc. and their interest in history ends somewhere with the S2000, they are no longer interested in such historical matters, but if if you ask someone aged 40+ at the Barum rally, they will definitely know something about this topic. This topic has always been popular in the Czech Republic. Just like the MTX 160 RS project. "World of Motors" also wrote an article about the VAZ Samara EVA project. I am not sure if the FSO Polonez group B project was ever mentioned in the articles in the CSSR, but it was certainly written about the Polonez passenger car, which was not sold in the Czechoslovakia.

[@bekawen]

Great production, great quality, and an overall good watch. Slowly learning more about cars 🙂!!

[@dnparris03]

Loving the Forza background music

[@vintageman91]

Another car that i have seen pictures of that seems to be a group B car is a mid engined ZAZ tavria prototype.

[@full-service-history]

Looking it up now, I see the car you mean (and very cool it looks too). I think I missed it because none of the articles seem to be in English, meaning it wouldnt have come up in my searches

[@vintageman91]

@@full-service-history I know, its hard to find out anything about it so its not easy to include it.

[@illinoisstatetrooper2359]

Very cool video, was waiting for this one after watching the front engined prototypes video. However I do believe you got some information wrong about the Lada EVA. From my knowledge, the EVA project was started and completed in Lithuania, by the same guy that was the brains of the VFTS project - Stasys Brundza. As far as we know, only 2 cars are known to have actually been built, one you can see in rally livery (presumably the same car that was taken to a few rally events, that we see pictures of with the broken rear wheel) and the yellow car with no livery. There was also another shell built for a privateer, but it seems like nothing has been done to it since. The VFTS team had nothing to do with the Samara T3 project, as that was an entirely Lada France Representatives affair (which apparently cost them over 25 million francs).

[@ewanstewart8011]

Another great video well narrated and plenty photos cheers 👍🏻🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@nonono8788]

Oh man, I laughed out loud with that slide with all the different names of the Simca 1307. I've seen at least 4 of those variations in Portuguese cars, which makes me think we were probably getting leftover stock from other countries.

[@DChrisSLO]

forza menu music really is a nice touch. Your videos are awesome and well researched, keep up the good work :)

[@secondstage4272]

My nephew and I are about to start a 926R replica build so this was very helpful Thankyou

[@Jagermonsta]

16:12 I live in Australia and was curious about this vehicle - checked the rego and it's still alive and registered 💪

[@maxij7132]

Only reason why I'm following you

[@woopimagpie]

These videos are the best I've ever seen on the subject. Very well done indeed.

[@sevcaczech5961]

Hi there Studio 2. There was no group S rally car project based on Skoda Favorit, therefore there are no pictures. The decision to end the upcoming Group S was taken by the International Federation of Automobile Sports in the summer of 1986. From 1987, only Group A cars were driven. The Skoda Favorit was introduced in 1987, but it entered the passenger car market in the Czechoslovakia in the middle of 1988, i.e. 2 years after the abolition of groups B and S..

[@full-service-history]

"In late 1985, Skoda's original plans for Group S, since it demanded a mere 10 units for homologaion, were rumoured to be a turbocharged and 4wd variant of the upcoming Favorit model... The production Favorit was however plagued with major delays, hence the MTX 160 RS Group B prototype developed earlier by Metalex was rumoured to serve as its testbed in the interim." - rallygroupbshrine.org/group-s/skoda-130-lr-evo-group-s-prototype/ So my understanding is this: a Group S Favorit was rumoured to have been planned, but due to delays in the production car's development it was too late for any prototypes to have been built before the Group itself was cancelled.

[@sevcaczech5961]

@@full-service-history yes, exactly... Thank you for the article. I was very addicted to the rally sport since 1984 as a small boy and I also remember that around 1986-1987 there were a lot of rumors in Czechoslovakia about a new front-wheel drive Skoda car being prepared. Bertone's design sketches appeared in magazines. The first test prototypes were created during this period and the first few Favorits were built in 1987. So it is possible that a rally car project could have been created on paper or in minds in 1985, but I strongly doubt that there were any actually built prototypes of the B or S group. Also, don't forget that 1985 was only the first full year of sales of the Skoda 105/120/130 "Estelle" in the "modernized" "M" variant with plastic bumpers and indicators located next to the headlights, on the basis of which the 130 LR was just created, which premiered in the rally as a novelty in 1985. The Favorit was really just a whisper.. In 1987, when the unfinished test series of civilian Favorits were produced, no one thought about Group B or S anymore.

[@Evaunit98]

Fantastic video, I’d love to see a video focused on rally cars of the Eastern bloc

[@StuartGarlick]

Well done for sneaking in the Art of Rally music!

[@full-service-history]

There... isnt any Art of Rally music in this video, sorry to say Which is a rather missed opportunity come to think of it 🤦‍♂️

[@StuartGarlick]

@@full-service-history It's the exact music used on the main menu - the fact that this wasn't intentional makes for a massive "simulation-theory"-level cosmic coincidence!

[@full-service-history]

List of the music tracks used in this video: Base Telemetry (Forza Motorsport 3 OST) Inspiring Cinematic Ambient (Lexin Music, Pixabay) Monochrome Roulette Arrange Version (Enthusia Professional Racing OST) A Doze (Enthusia Professional Racing OST) Mall 2 (GTA Vice City OST) Mall 5 (GTA Vice City OST)

[@zachariah74]

​@@full-service-history Love the original soundtracks of both Motorsport 3 and 4, so good choice on the first track

[@alexjenner1108]

14:29 The GTV6 racer had to meet Group A rules, meaning Bosch L-Jetronic fuel injection from the road car. From my understanding, the early Group A cars might not have been particularly powerful, but after some development they were running more than 240bhp, with 250bhp claimed for the ex-Luigi Racing GTV6 raced by Colin Bond and Alan Jones in the Australian Touring Car Championship. For Group B, they would have at least homologated a better fuel injection system with independent throttle bodies and hopefully 4-valves per cylinder heads, so 250bhp should have been just the starting point.

[@ethanyechieli2647]

the part 2 is up! amazing about the production!

[@davidslogoarchive5116]

Great video! Although, you did forget one other eastern Gr.B car: A ZAZ Tavria was also built for Group B by an Estonian company (not VFTS btw).

[@full-service-history]

Some other people have commented on that, I missed it accidentally because there is hardly any English info online about the car

[@Stormcloakvictory]

Yes there's the anticipated part 2 :) Looking forward to this

[@piotrmalewski8178]

Polonez-Stratos was built before Group B, in 1977. The Polonez that was supposed to be group B (class 12), was Polonez 2000 Turbo with turbocharged Fiat 132 engine at front.

[@full-service-history]

I said all of that in the video

[@piotrmalewski8178]

​@@full-service-history Except for 2000 Turbo that was a separate model. As for the Stratos, it could have been rebuilt and there was no problem of doing that in Poland. It was serviced by a western company anyway but Jaroszewicz didn't want to race for Lancia anymore because he suspected he was sabotaged in favor of Bernard Darniche and political climate was turning up against him, so decided to drive domestic cars from this point. It's all mentioned in his book. Jacek Bartoś (the guy who replaced him as a director of sports division) also mentioned FSO replicated some suspension parts for the Stratos, because they were worn beyond safe use.

[@samiraperi467]

A Lada with Porsche 959 running gear? Didn't expect that. :D

[@jayamd3579]

i am so sorry for not subscribing after i watched the first part, glad youtube suggested me part two, have subed now xD

[@ferrete8967]

Love your content, please keep it up!

[@Bod8998]

Yes mate keep up the good work I now look forward to this like I do Big car

[@full-service-history]

Thanks for such a high compliment!

[@dustdevil9614]

I was here for the 288 and I found what I needed to know. Ty😊

[@scettzvill]

you mention a couple of group-S based cars near the end, mainly the unnamed Audi project and the RS-200. I was kind of hoping to see at least a mention of the Toyota 222D, but it never showed up :( great info on the eastern European cars though, never knew there were so many. good video overall, though, you might wanna work a tiny bit on the live takes you do, the hard cuts in between sentences can throw of the flow of the video.

[@full-service-history]

Yeah the cuts are just for this video due to its length - other videos will be better in that regard

[@lulamorton5953]

Awesome video my dude!

[@maarmaat]

You should dig into the story of Polonez 2000 coupe turbo; another forgotten rally car from FSO, but afaik FSO tried to homologate it contrary to Stratopolonez ;)

[@beijingbond]

These are great, keep them coming.

[@Zoonsky]

The "KR" in Messerschmitt KR200 stands for "Kabinenroller", which essentially means "rolling cabin". So yeah, saying "it's not a performance car" is putting it mildly.

[@full-service-history]

I knew it was called the Kabinenroller, but I never really stopped to think what that actually meant 😄

[@jeremywitt1940]

In your segment on the Porsche 959,you missed out its predecessor, the 953. This was a four wheel drive version of their original Group B car, the 911 SC RS. The 953 was used in Paris-Dakar before the 959.

[@full-service-history]

Am I right in saying that the 953 was only built for the Paris-Dakar and not for Group B?

[@nicholascanjuga6000]

Absolutely phenomenal video! Any more information about all things group B is awesome to me, especially the prototypes that never were, as well as clearing up a lot of misconceptions I had about the cars that didn't and did race also do you have any plans to cover group s?

[@full-service-history]

I've thought about covering Group S, but I don't know for sure if I will or not.

[@nicholascanjuga6000]

@@full-service-history all good, ur content is great regardless

[@jemmett50]

Great video 👍👍happy to be a new subscribers

[@Mistertbones]

Amazing video!

[@Juani_lol]

I've been waiting for part 2!

[@full-service-history]

Yeah, sorry about the delay

[@Juani_lol]

@@full-service-history don't worry, you should always take your time so you're satisfied with the video instead of it being rushed and unpolished

[@letop710]

Was waiting for part 2 ! Great work :) Whats the song in the background at 13:30 ? It got a Gran Turismo vibe, it slaps

[@full-service-history]

It's from Enthusia Professional Racing, a Gran Turismo clone for the PS2. The track is named 'A Doze', you can find uploads of it on KZbin. I'd highly recommend checking out the OST for the game, it's great!

[@letop710]

@@full-service-history Oh yes thank you very much for answering !

[@javichaguin1593]

Great videos, thanks!!!

[@joshimitsu96]

Enjoyed that, many thanks

[@hoggmotorsport]

Great video 👌 looking at the Alfa does anyone remember the mid Ferrari engined Alfa of Andy Burton (UK)? I was fortunate to see that car on a few rallies! Awesome sounding machine as was his 306!! Maybe an idea for a future video.. Well engineered winning cars built by the privateer 👍

[@full-service-history]

'When Privateers beat the Works Teams' would be a great video idea, thanks - I'll note it down. Matt Neal's BTCC Primera immediately comes to mind for that topic too

[@buckrogers2828]

@@full-service-history FGR's Metro 8R4.

[@gwaters8067]

Great video again, thank you

[@R3IMU]

Gosh, the Audi Mittelmotor looks so good. Can you imagine this thing racing?

[@theblackhand6485]

Didn't see the FIAT ABARTH 126 with it's rear mounted two cylinder engine code name SE 028 and AB.1C.1. (?).

[@full-service-history]

I must admit, I've never heard of it, looking it up seems to bring up a single mention of a replica (bwgarage.com) and a single forum thread (fiatforum.com) - the latter references the former for its info, with no photos apparently existing of the two prototypes. Finally, they're from 1973, and aren't extreme enough to get a pass for being pre-Group-B like I felt the Stratopolonez did.

[@nlpnt]

They should've sold the mid-engine Horizon prototype to Carroll Shelby. Since the rear doors were nonfunctional there was no reason to use the boxier Omni-Horizon body instead of the Charger-Turismo coupe one (except that PSA didn't build and had no rights to the latter).

[@full-service-history]

a mid-engined Shelby Omni GLH-S would have been one hell of a machine!

[@Tacko14]

Don’t you hate it when they’ve widened a body for the wheels, and then use the skimpiest wheels on snow and mud? Like seeing Usain Bolt on stilettos. Same with the Skodas. The 130 had decent wheels, pretty car btw, where the newer one had shopping trolley castors by comparison. Give the lad a decent pair of boots!

[@full-service-history]

For sure, especially the current Rally1 cars with all their aero shenanigans - ends up looking like a shoddy kit car with the snow tyres!

[@Tacko14]

@@full-service-history I mean, it’s useful, of course it is. But the look of the thing should count for something, right? Think of the 10 yr old kids wanting to hang posters on their bedroom walls. Or us grownups who didn’t forget being a 10 yr old kid.

[@piotrmalewski8178]

Homologation demanded the cars to have the same bodykit at every event, and narrow wheels with high offset were much better for snow.

[@BryanSteacy]

Where's your intro music from? Every time I watch one of your videos I get some vague childhood racing game memory unlocked from it.

[@full-service-history]

You are correct, it is from a racing game - Burnout 3 to be exact!

[@papamauryc2300]

Someone probably already mentioned this, but the strato polonez rally car was actually faster then the famous Quattro in some test run. Wanted to point this funny little fact out. I still don't think the strato would have had any chance comepeting with any other car in group B

[@piotrmalewski8178]

Stratopolonez was built in 1977, long before group B, and there were never any plans to homologate it. And the run you're mentioning was actually a race in a rally and it wasn't Stratopolonez, but Polonez 2000 Turbo, and yes, it smoked Quattro, because the race was on a small oval track where Quattro wasn't very good, and it was an A Group Quattro, so Polonez was both lighter and had more power as it was a prototype, and Quattro was just a tuned road version. But 2000 Turbo was notorious for breaking down. The biggest problem was rear axle halfshafts that could break in 130BHP Polonez 1600, and 2000 Turbo had 240-280BHP. I guess the idea was to build a lighter version of Nissan 240, something like Celica Turbo, but realistically to make it work they would have needed to buy a few hundreds of rear axles from Volvo.

[@RafaType]

Lancia killed Group B rally by cheating with its Delta S4 (something that italian manufacturers tend to do by the way). First by not making the 200 models recquired for homologation entry, and than by replacing real roll bars with "cardboard" rool bars, a bit hard to believe but true. No wonder Toivonen and Cresto died on that crash, pretty obvious those roll bars didn't have half the strengh they should, quite sad actually and that's exactly the reason they were so dominant on that tragic year.

[@modestas6544]

3:40 Lada Samara EVA was started in 1985 by Lithuanian rally driver Stasys Brundza in Vilnius, not Estonia. EVA means “Experimental Vilnius Auto-plant”.

[@full-service-history]

The project was initially started in Estonia as just a Samara Group B project, then after getting approval it was moved to Vilnius and thus named EVA

[@philithunder9667]

I find it funny how the WRC Group B cars already look a bit janky and homemade, but these take it two steps further.

[@full-service-history]

For me personally, the Metro 6R4 will always be the peak of the 'thrown together Group B' look, but it's certainly a very close competition!

[@tturi2]

grand turismo music is always welcome to grace my ear drums

[@HAWGGY85]

You forgot the Group B car from Ukraine - ZAZ Tavria ERF. 😉 It's currently on display in MOMU museum in Estonia. Has similar story to Lada EVA - built, but never raced.

[@full-service-history]

Another commenter brought that up, I now see that I missed it because there seems to be no info about it online in English, so it wouldnt have come up while I was researching the topic

[@piotrmalewski8178]

@@full-service-history You've also missed Polonez 2000 Turbo that was actually built in 1984 for group B. The naturally aspirated 2000 Rally was originally built for groups IV and II, and later re-homologed in group B, but somewhere in 1983 when a short series of 3 door Polonezes was produced, some of them were used to build 2000 Turbo version. Some press notes from the era say there were plans to build more for Finnish rally drivers, but the car was never homologated and raced in Poland untill the end of 1986. There were a few engines and at least two bodyshells of 2000 Turbo (one 3 door and one 5 door), but it's possible that only a single car was operational at a time because there was only one driver that used it, and FSO couldn't even officially buy turbochargers because of sanctions. Garett turbochargers were smuggled via Finland by Finnish FSO importer. There was also an illegal group B Polonez 2000 with naturally aspirated 16 valve engine raced in Hungary. The homologated engine had only 8 valves.

[@kineticstringwell844]

the golf rallye was susposed too be a entry into rallying untill they realised the quattro 4wd was far supieror so the cars ended up road cars using the 1.8 g60 supercharged engine

[@whatsup8464]

The golf rallye g60 was group A...not group B

[@krzysztofchabras9253]

Hello. Could you make an episode about other rally cars that were abandoned like Dacia Logan S2000, Opel Corsa R5, Proton Putra WRC and MG3 WRC? Kind Regards

[@full-service-history]

I'll note it down, but I have the next 5 episodes already planned out so it might not be for a while

[@krzysztofchabras9253]

@@full-service-history its alright. I'll be waiting. Regards

[@lubo69gtr82]

I was waiting to see toyotas mk1 mr2 jn the list....

[@full-service-history]

You're the 3rd person to comment about the MR2 222D, that was a Group S prototype not a Group B one.

[@helloScuffed]

The Stratopolonez was the work of a bunch of insane engineers. However, FSO went beyond madness when designing the Polonez 2000 Rally, this even crazier work of mad engineering was able to beat the Audi Quatrro in rallies.

[@full-service-history]

Wasn't the 2000 Rally just a regular Polonez with better brakes/suspension and slightly more power? iirc it was originally going to be turbocharged (and thus properly quick) but FSO were denied permission to acquire turbos as they were reserved for heavy-duty plant machinery and trucks at the time.

[@helloScuffed]

@@full-service-history The lack of permits for the parts needed to build this car is precisely why I called it the work of engineers who lost their minds an went mental. For the project, FSO had to use all available parts, combining components that were never intended to be used together. This project can be compared to painting the Mona Lisa with crayons. The very fact that the car was created at all and received Group B homologation can be called nothing short of a miracle. The Polonez 2000 Group B had about 210 horsepower, thus in no way it qualifies as another Group B monster. Regarding the victory over the Audi Quattro, this is more of an anecdote, as the Polonez owes it to a mechanical failure in the Audi.

[@full-service-history]

@@helloScuffed thanks for the additional info!

[@helloScuffed]

@@full-service-history Here are some of the technical data of the Group B Polonez 2000: Front suspension - Bilstein shock absorbers with springs Rear suspension - triple leaf springs with flat suspension and Bilstein shock absorbers (The rear leaf suspension beams were from a Żuk light truck) Front brakes - brake discs 253.3 mm (from Porsche 911 RS) Rear brakes - standard Handbrake - hydraulic based on the clutch pump from Fiat 125p

[@jemmett50]

Might have to find a 130 rapid and build a 4wd version with a 1.8t

[@andrewarmstrong7254]

Going to be honest, the Polish PM was hardly going to be Sandro Munari, was he?

[@jemmett50]

I had a 130 rapid.. Amazing car

[@full-service-history]

I'd love to own a Rapid, in black they look especially cool

[@skaldlouiscyphre2453]

Can we hope for a Part 3 with the Group B circuit racers?

[@full-service-history]

I will probably make that, but not for a while - I have a few videos planned for the coming months already.

[@skaldlouiscyphre2453]

@@full-service-history Awesome. I've been fascinated by what coulda been for ages. I'm actually in the middle of modifying a Hot Wheels 959 into a 961.

[@full-service-history]

Best of luck to you!

[@nicolesaphir]

Bittersweet indeed 😢

[@carlbarton772]

awesome

[@ladis123]

MTX 160 is known on Mladá Boleslav as "bastard". Because it had lada emgine.

[@full-service-history]

Yes, I didn't include that part due to KZbin's recent uncertainties in regards to their swearing policy

[@ladis123]

Btw there was also group S evolution of 130 LR.

[@full-service-history]

Yes, the 130LR Evo, wasnt it eventually bought and used for rallycross?

[@nathanlong8295]

Wanna know why the R8 is mid engine? It's been a plan of theirs for decades after all.

[@full-service-history]

Playing the long game 😄

[@nst1981]

i would love a 926R

[@full-service-history]

Same honestly, they're such cool little cars, plus the fairly low power figure would make them fairly safe to drive - unlike the other mid engined hatchbacks (R5 Turbo, Clio V6, Metro 6R4, etc.)

[@gibsson]

What about nami 0290?

[@full-service-history]

Some other people have commented on that, I missed it accidentally because there is hardly any English info online about the car

[@TheRenaissanceGuys]

What could've been..

[@josephsanders8921]

No mention of Toyota"s 222D?

[@full-service-history]

Congrats on being the fourth person to wonder why a Group S prototype isnt in a video about Group B prototypes.

[@josephsanders8921]

@@full-service-history From the mr2 wiki "Thus, Toyota Team Europe started a rally project in 1985, codenamed "222D" based on the MR2, for competition in Group S and potentially Group B."

[@full-service-history]

Huh, I stand corrected. Apologies! Personally I still regard it as a Group S car, as no way Toyota would have greenlit 200 versions for Group B homologation.

[@josephsanders8921]

@@full-service-history no hate man, I just really love my mr2's. You do good research for your video's, so I've been waiting for with baited breath to hear your take on the 222d.

MTX 160RS was actually nicknamed "Bastard"... You find what the translation means haha

[@full-service-history]

Yes, I read about that, but I didn't include it due to recent uncertainties in KZbins swearing policies.

@@full-service-history yep I understand that. About middle engine quattro. The place where it was tested, is like 25 km away from my home, and that "circuit" still exist. In early 90s, part of one Barum Rally's stage was on this circuit at it was aired on TV. There's is a lot in Leo Pavlík's biography book about this testing. For example, he jumped S1 over the big crest, on top of 6th gear, flew over 60 meters, and the front suspension went through the hood haha. If u can grab the book somewhere, do it. Or I can send u some scans of it somewhere if u want to.

[@full-service-history]

Thanks for the info, I'll see if I can find a copy

[@sasukekonoxa]

Hey, there also was car which named (tavria) Ukrainian one, which was actually middle engine, if you interested, answer me here, i will share some info about it :)

[@full-service-history]

Some other people have commented on that, I missed it accidentally because there is hardly any English info online about the car

[@sasukekonoxa]

@@full-service-history i can translate some of ;)

[@full-service-history]

Thanks but the issue wasn't translating it, it just didn't come up in my research in the first place due to the articles/info having non-English titles. I can translate and read the info fine now that I know about the car, I just didn't beforehand.

[@sasukekonoxa]

@@full-service-history Tavria ERF Mobile the name is :)

[@TinyBearTim]

Who looked at the 2141 and when yea let’s put bloody go cart wheels on it and send it to rally

[@full-service-history]

Yeah, the wheels are comically small 😄 Might've been good for suspension travel/wheelarch clearance tho

[@damphear2]

pause at 2:07 and you look like a french guy smoking all mad

[@briangriffith3985]

you missed out the Toyota MR2

[@full-service-history]

That was a Group S prototype, not a Group B one.

[@briangriffith3985]

@@full-service-history fair enough👍