The Hardest Floor Skills in the 2025-28 CoP

[@alexi8741]

The front 3/1 twist and the back 3.5/1 twist should be Gs in my opinion since they have way more built in deductions and are therefore harder to execute than like a double layout for example.

[@cocoroni1031]

In 2025-2028 quad, many of these difficult skills will be replaced by overvalued connections on floor. It's like beam when big acro is replaced by million non-rebounding connections.

[@bettie325]

Absolutely incredible that it's been about 35 years that Daniela Silivas competed and yet her element is still absolute state of the art. Incredible.

[@myerklamb8529]

And the Chusovitina too!

[@bettie325]

@@myerklamb8529 but she's still active and I hope will remain active forever. Anybody who likes gymnastics and isn't a fan of Oksana Chusovitina can go home lol, she's such a queen!

[@bettie325]

PS the "but she's still active" was more of a joke. She's amazing.

[@rcaixetav]

the Silivas having the same D value as the Dos Santos II is crazy

[@JanMLopes]

It blows my mind that the Dos Santos II is "only" G (it should have been at least H, IMO), and that the Maldonado is "only" F (a G would be more fitting for me).

[@teoneacsiu2287]

it's H

[@captainbryce1]

It is an H. However, that's still too low. Dos Santos II should be an I.

[@davidjacobmarts535]

@@captainbryce1 if done properly, maybe but even Dos Santos herself never did one properly. She always was too piked or even tucked for it to be considered a true layout arabian double front. Chellsie Memmel trained them and those were actually layout, the entire two saltos. Dos Santos never did a proper arabian double front layout.

[@captainbryce1]

@@davidjacobmarts535 I agree. But when determining difficulty, you're always referring to the way the skill is supposed to be done, not how one gymnast performed it. A layout double Arabian is objectively more difficult than a Silivas or even a Chusovitina. The fact that nobody ever attempts it while we see Silivas and Chusovitina quite often in competitions is a testament to that. Dos Santos II obviously should be rated much higher. It's the third most difficult pass after Biles 2 and Moors.

[@lorenzoferraris8493]

I loved the choice of the videos for each single skill! Great job!!

[@captainbryce1]

The Dos Santos 2 is criminally undervalued. It should be at least an I skill (equal to a Moors). There's a reason why we've seen many people complete a Moors, but only one person has ever done a Dos Santos II.

[@cocoroni1031]

Not many people do a Moors just FYI. For example, there is ZERO Moors in Paris.

[@captainbryce1]

@@cocoroni1031 Yes, but the Moors has been competed by at least 9 different gymnasts (7 of them in major international competitions). The Dos Santos 2 has only ever been competed by a single gymnast! kzbin.info/www/bejne/qqDNlaWkrJqKhcksi=LHsi3jZShgOqPbCl

[@cocoroni1031]

@@captainbryce1 9 female gymnasts performing it in the world, at different quad, does not mean “many”. Dos Santos 2 is undervalued because FIG hates front tumbling (and more prone to ACL injury). All F+ tumblings with forward landing are discouraged.

[@cocoroni1031]

And tbh, there can be bonus system to encourage forward tumbling (+0.1 for E, +0.2 for F, +0.3 for G+), if FIG wants more front tumbling. Floor is the lowest scoring apparatus anyway, so may as well add more bonus in proportional to difficulty. And that’s much better than those inferior 0.2 CV for CD indirect and BD direct connections.

[@kristinae.7084]

Oh I love the Dowell!! Also the Dos Santos II is incredible!

[@Mariai_9200]

Lindo o Dos Santos da Ana Luiza Lima 😮❤

[@saragrant9749]

The best 3 1/2 twist I ever saw was done by Makayla Maroney. That Dos Santos II is just a nuts move. Then… there’s the Biles II.

[@abelchaves1266]

Why Dos Santos II is only G?😮

[@itzzjxstinn]

It’s H

[@vantuirfreitas]

It's H actually, but I feel like if it was a "popular" move and more gymnasts performed it in their routines, it would've been downgraded by now.

[@brunoribeiro2237]

Rebeca Andrade ❤❤❤

[@Mariai_9200]

Rebeca Andrade ❤❤❤

[@juanordosgoite372]

Rebeca Andrade ❤❤❤

[@luisamalia5746]

Is the 3 1/2 twist also called The Moreno (as a tribute to Spanish gymnast Patricia Moreno who competed it in Athens 2004) ? Thank you!

[@finfelagund]

Double layout is so common that it should be downgraded to E.

[@gilmarsousasantos4700]

Like Double Double, it should be downgraded to 'G'.

[@cocoroni1031]

The CVs should be downgraded or scrapped off first before double layout is downgraded. Even MAG upgrades double layout because of viewership concern.

[@ivanjimenezmajestic3979]

In MAG it's a D, i'm surprised it's a F on WAG.

[@cocoroni1031]

@@ivanjimenezmajestic3979 Double layout is an E in MAG for the next quad. The next MAG code aims to increase viewership.

[@finfelagund]

@@gilmarsousasantos4700 Exactly, that´s what I forgot to mention. Thanks.

[@marc6186]

oliveira (arabian double pike half out) is still an F right?

[@nicolassth123]

É um E é foi considerado o mesmo elemento que o tsuka carpado

[@Lucas.Alves.]

O do santos II tendo nota de partida menor que alguns dos últimos e sendo o executado somente por 1 ginástica 🤡🤡

[@Fernando-dt8je]

Dos Santos 2 and Silivas....the same? Suuuuuuure.

[@cocoroni1031]

Silivas is more difficult than most CE / AE connections, so the value is correct. FIG doesn't like front tumbling and think they lead to more injury, so undervaluing front tumbling is very intentional.

[@Fernando-dt8je]

@@cocoroni1031 liking or not shouldn't matter. Same with injury.

[@cocoroni1031]

@@Fernando-dt8je In theory yes, in practice even MAG has to upgrade all backward double layout variations / triple salto for viewership, which partly affects FIG’s preference. In WAG, gymnasts who can’t do big tumblings may do CE/AE for G-equivalent rating, and those who are more talented in tumbling can do H passes. It’s perfect. The concern of higher likelihood of ACL injury due to forward landing also leads to undervaluing Amanar. Not good, but just state why FIG undervalues Dos Santos 2.

[@BoneDustAura]

I imagine what would be like a (K) code vault

[@tonyyou2814]

Why is the Silivas H when tuck full in is only E? Shouldn't it be G since it's just 1 extra rotation?

[@cocoroni1031]

Why is indirect C+E / direct A+E equivalent to G? Why can't gymnasts who can do C+E / A+E just do a Silvas instead?

[@guardianofthegalaxy2051]

@@cocoroni1031 if a+e or c+e is “easier” than silivas, then more gymnasts will do them instead of silivas. Why would they do the incredibly difficult silivas if easier pass gets the same value? But the reality is a+e/c+e is just as hard as silivas. Olympic floor final has 4 silivas, but only 3 a+e and only 3 c+e pass.

[@cocoroni1031]

@@guardianofthegalaxy2051 Wrong, floor FINALS are supposed to be the best of the best floor workers. Those floor workers can do Silivas, doesn't mean the rest of the field can do it. Others who are less talented in tumblings can only do A+E / C+E connections. So Silivas will remain H and that's how it works.

[@gilmarsousasantos4700]

Faltou o oliveira gente!!!

[@marwahussein666]

Vai ser um E

[@Jonnypear486]

More people should have appreciated Simone more cause when she’s not here you won’t ever see any biles being performed maybe bilesl on FX but who knows how long heron will keep it

[@cocoroni1031]

She may come back in LA. YDP is confirmed dead so we will miss it.

[@Jonnypear486]

@@cocoroni1031 that girl gonna retire give it a year and she will come out with a retirement post on social media

[@jaylenc4946]

@@Jonnypear486 nah, it’s Simone. I think she wants that bars skill named after her, and I think she wants to break the Olympic medals record. I think at the very least she will be at another worlds

[@wellingtonrreis]

Biles I is very common for many gymnasts, but Biles II is real, only Simone. The same for Dos Santos I, very common, but Dos Santos II was never executed in competition by another gymnast besides Daiane, I think DSII should be upgraded to I score

[@captainbryce1]

@@jaylenc4946 It's impossible for Simone to break the Olympic medal records. She would have to compete (and medal) in at least TWO more Olympic games to do so. Right now the gymnastics Olympic medal leader is Larisa Latynina who has 18 medals (which is one behind the all time leader Michael Phelps who owns 28 medals). A female gymnast can only win a maximum of 6 medals per Olympic Games - a feat which not even Simone has done before. It's highly unlikely for her to medal on bars, which means that the most she's going to get at the LA Olympics would be 5 medals (and that's a stretch given her advanced age at that time). She needs 7 more medals to tie Latynina, 8 more to become the gymnastics all-time leader, and 17 more to become the all-time leader. None of that is going to happen even if she sweeps the 2028 LA games. So breaking the Olympic record would be an unrealistic goal. Getting the bars skill named after her is possible, but she had every opportunity to do that for the last 10 years and chose not to. I doubt it's a priority for her since she hates bars and it's her weakest event.

[@franciscocativiela9476]

I think that many of those elements with value f are much more difficult than some g, h and i

[@triffus]

Double Lay is rated too high in my opinion.

[@captainbryce1]

I think it's rated appropriately relative to many of the other skills. It's also one of the prettiest skills, and devaluing it would no doubt cause most people to abandon it as no longer worth the risk.

[@cocoroni1031]

Even now MAG has to rate Double Layout to E for more viewership lmao. General audience like that skill and it deserves a higher rating than many inferior indirect C+D / direct B+D connections which are now equal to a double layout in this stupid floor code.

[@parthapatney4297]

bro how did they not downgrade the double double (silivas) like im actually confused it should be a G

[@cocoroni1031]

Because CV exists. Silivas is unquestionably more difficult than most CE / AE connections.

[@thecreativegeek7886]

I think the Heron should be a G

[@pedroh8915]

You forgot the 1 1/2 double tuck

[@guardianofthegalaxy2051]

0:12 literally the first skill

[@guardianofthegalaxy2051]

Double double (silivas) has been performed since the 80s on the bare carpet floor equipment. It’s really not that difficult compared to the other H skill. Should’ve never been an H in the first place.

[@captainbryce1]

I think it was appropriately rated, up until 2012. That's when it started to become a routine pass and should have been devalued accordingly. The D rating of skills isn't solely based on how difficult the skill is to perform. The judges should also take into consideration the rarity of the skill relative to others of similar difficulty. While the Silivas has been "performed" since the 80s, it was never common until the 2010s. In fact, it was so rare that you could count the numbers of gymnasts who competed it in a world or Olympic floor final on one hand. From 1988 - 2012 only five gymnasts performed the Silivas at the Olympics. We didn't see any in the 1992 or 1996 games. We saw one each from Elena Zamolochikova (2000), Cheng Fei (2004), Cheng Fei (2008), Shawn Johnson (2008), Jordan Weiber (2012), and Vanessa Fererri (2012). So it's D value was justified if only to encourage it. It wasn't until the 2013-2016 quad that it started to become commonplace for the top floor specialists, and it should have been downgraded in the very next code (2017-2020) from H to G, but for some inexplicable reason they didn't.

[@cocoroni1031]

Silivas is more difficult than most CE / AE connections. As such, Silivas is correct at H. It doesn't matter what gymnasts did in the past. Floor is trending more inferior regardless.

[@jaredcarretobarrera4699]

I don't understand and I'll never understand how the 'Dos Santos II' and the 'Biles I' are valueted same. Neither for what reason the 'Chusovitina' and the 'Silivas' are valueted with H, in my opinion it's clear should be G both.

[@Marketoromagnolo]

i'ts time SILIVAS became G and not H, the Moors should be J as the Biles 2, also I think piked ful in should be F and not E as normal ful in, as is much harder ( and double tuck C AND double pike D)

[@tannershort6395]

every video of these, there’s always someone trying to downplay the difficulty of simone’s skills 😂

[@alexi8741]

Me after my lobotomy

[@Marketoromagnolo]

@@tannershort6395 Simone skills ? What the fuck do you mean? I talk about silivas. Learn gymnastic

[@Marketoromagnolo]

@@alexi8741 go to the hospital baby

[@riquebusta8652]

@@tannershort6395exactly! There’s always people saying her YDP is overvalued as if she didn’t flip (skip) over the tuck version of it lol

[@courtneypuzzo2502]

if Simone could land both her named floor moves without going out of bounds her score at the Olympics would've been 14.733 nearly .7 higher than Rebecca Andrade which would've given her 8 Olympic Gold medals 1 Silver 2 Bronze and she has said she may try to make her 4th Olympic team in 2028 for Los Angeles and would be the first American Gymnast male or Female to achieve that feat

[@DeepSeas..]

I don’t think Simone cares anymore. She wanted team and AA gold to overcome her demons from Tokyo. The rest was just a bonus.

[@mariusa.5863]

This is what I hate most about gymnastics. Oftentimes everyone knows A is currently the best in the world on an event but due to A "having a bad day", B wins the gold medal, the token for being the best in the world. I know a lot of people are fine with this ("Well, IN THAT MOMENT, B was best"). But I hate it to no end, because it makes everything about this sport so random. Which it probably is, at the end of they day. Just look at the ongoing bronze medal fight. It’s so arbitrary who of the three gets it, I don’t even care anymore. FIG sucks. So glad, at least team, aa, vault and ub finals were undoubtedly won by the best. Just imagine Kaylia missing gold … 😖

[@emeyyxo]

@@mariusa.5863weird opinion, you can be the best gymnast in the world in training but ultimately gymnastics is about how you perform on the day of competition. simone messed up twice on floor and got the silver but that doesnt diminish her status as the best gymnast in the world, she just didnt perform at her best on that day. in that moment rebeca did beat her and you shouldnt cling to a ‘what if’ scenario because it isnt what happened on the day which is really what matters. sure it’s upsetting to some that simone didnt win but it is her own fault that she didn’t

[@jacobmiller2663]

@@mariusa.5863honestly I still think Simone was underscored on the floor even with the out of bounds. Her d score should have been enough to cushion her. I mean come on, since her comeback last year, when has she scored under 14.600 on floor. And honestly the people saying Rebeca is now the best floor worker is just wrong, now if Simone would have hit and Rebeca still beat her then she would be the best but she didn’t. I’m sorry to say but Rebeca is only “better” when Simone doesn’t hit but thats not impressive to me at least. Last year during vault finals, Simone had a .500 neutral deduction on her Biles II vault and she overpowered the vault and fell backwards and Rebeca beat her. A little impressive but once again Rebeca beat her when she didn’t hit. I’m not saying she didn’t deserve those two golds but for the people saying she is the better floor and vaulter are wrong, she will only be the best over Simone on vault and floor if she wins over a hit routine Simone until then, she’s just the best when Simone makes mistakes.

[@mihaelabruma8006]

​@@mariusa.5863Da, e trist când totul devine arbitrar , arată că în gimnastica totul devine relativ, arbitrele nu mai respecta nimic decât propriile lor interese. Trist este că din cauza acestui arbitrar, gimnastele suferă.😢