The Hbomberguy Plagiarism Video (Short Version)

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0:00 - The Yoink
3:25 - The Twist

[@Jason-fp7vi]

I think this is a well put together video. My interpretation is that netshaq isn't refuting the video or saying it shouldn't have been made, he states that his twist on things is partly initial reaction and partly heavily biased view from his own experience getting started. I don't see why both can not be true. Plagiarism sucks when done by big names for profit, plagiarism is less relevant when someone is starting out, not earning income, and just finding their way. Many comments on this video sound like they are interpreting this as an outright dismissal and refutation if hbombers original. I don't think that's the intention, and if it was not, I think netshaq needs to more clearly state that up front. Although he mentions reaction from the heart, heavily biased view etc., people are going to mentally skip over those short qualifier sentences. I also understand Shaq is often a cheeky guy in his responses. Since many people are getting hung up on not getting the full point of the video, you could make a more productive pinned comment directly clarifying your intent. The current pinned content is meme-y and doesn't really add value

[@SrKinko]

Should have been a more thought out video then, as it sits it's not very good

[@cwestrephx]

Yeah, I didn't see this video as a refutation of Hbomb, just a form of, to steal Ludwig's terminology, a yoink and twist. He takes Hbomb's point on plagiarism, but adds the axis of power dynamics: that if you don't have a lot of reach/power, then plagiarizing shouldn't be thought of as a big deal, but if you're a well-known creator, it becomes a big issue. And in the spirit of adding onto this increasingly nuanced view of plagiarism, I'd say plagiarism from small creators definitely shouldn't be thought of the same way, and that if plagiarism is the thing holding back someone from starting a creative endeavor, they should toss that aside and just start creating. But to bring some of Hbomb's thoughts back in, I'd say that Ludwig's "Yoink and twist" way of thinking about things is a great way to approach creating, and that a generalized form of that is what most, if not all, creation is - taking something that already exists in the world and adding a bit of yourself into it, then releasing it back into the world. Beyond that I think that the "Yoink and twist" can be a great way for small creators to think about their work when they're starting up. You don't have to have some new idea from scratch, that's incredibly hard to do, and even the best new ideas may not truly be "from scratch". You can absolutely start with someone else's ideas and then do your best to add your own touch to them. And furthermore, that's one of the primary skills you're developing when you start creating! You develop your own voice by taking those existing ideas and putting them in your own words. It will be easier to get more "original" the more you create - and that's where Shaq's advice to discard the worries of plagiarism works best. Just start creating, and the original ideas will come. But, I'd say that keeping the idea of a "Yoink and twist" in mind is great, too - you should be endeavoring to add your own twist, just know that the ability to do that doesn't just exist, it has to be developed.

[@MichaelR-cl6vb]

C'mon, plagarism is literally taught in grade school. Presenting someone else's insights or work as your own is universally considered to be wrong. coming from the visual artist world, it's not uncommon for young or experienced artists to trace works that they like in order to learn composition/anatomy/textures/etc. Tracing is fine, as long as it lives in your private sketchbook. The second you upload it our show it to anyone without the major caveat "I traced this," it moves from 'learning exercise' to 'theft.' Shaq (who's work I like a lot) is extrapolating from people who's youtube work was shown to be for all intents and purposes tracing, genuflecting to a totally different point about 'influences,' an unrelated point to the subject of the referenced video. Plagiarism is not acceptable for anyone even starting out producing their own videos. Derivitive-ness is acceptable. Pastiche can be acceptable. But literally taking other peoples work and presenting it as your own is flat out wrong, not matter the case. Theres no nuance about that fact. If a wannabe 13 year old video essayist does it, the responsible thing to do is to explain to them why it doesnt fly. Plagiarism is not 'less relevant' for new creators. If anything, they need to have it hammered into their skull that plagiarism is the cancer that destroys the creative corner of their brain that compels them to create in the first place. It's not 'a learning experience' the second you put it on the internet for people to consume, it's theft, and when youre found out it will taint everything you do, no matter how original.

[@candyh4284]

​@@cwestrephx While I understand your point and agree with it to an extent, I think the phraseology was poor. My understanding (please correct if wrong) is that you're referring to the thoroughness of the citation itself rather than its existence as a whole, right? So if, say, I steal large chunks of someone's writing and pass it off as my own in a video on my account with 1000 subscribers, that's a moral absolute, this is incorrect. If I cite it, but my citation cites the wrong video or it cites a video citing a DIFFERENT video or some other innocent fumble, then it shouldn't be cause for a disproportionate reaction, I agree. That said, I don't know if anyone was under that impression to begin with. And if they were, they're certainly not people reading these long-winded, nuanced comments we've all been making. In fact that's part of the problem -- the real problems aren't involved in the solutions we're working on. Ultimately, plagiarism is very simple in concept. The idea is that if I'm reading your paper or watching your video and you mention another piece or property or quote something, I can reference the citation and find out for myself if that's indeed what's being said and intended. If I can do that with your citation, there's no legitimate reason for me to have a grievance with it.

[@candyh4284]

@@MichaelR-cl6vb I appreciate that you mentioned something I don't see coming up in these discussions enough, which is that plagiarism beyond just being an ethical issue is also an issue of creativity. If I'm using someone else's writing as a crutch, I'm not writing my own. If I'm not writing my own, I'm not practicing. And if I'm not practicing, I'm not improving. And, seriously, nobody likes a derivative. Other pieces are side dishes -- they exist to complement the main dish, the actual MEAT of the meal. If you're presenting them as their own courses, you're doing both of us a disservice.

[@NoonDragoon]

While I do understand the point of “There are worse things on KZbin than plagiarism” I don’t think that means a KZbinr like Hbomberguy shouldn’t use their platform to address a problem they see happening. There is legitimate actual abuse and scams happening on this platform daily but the existence of those problems doesn’t mean that no other problems can be talked about until the larger issues are solved. The silly KZbin British man isn’t the one who has the power to solve large scale issues on this platform. But he can use his platform to bring attention to a scummy creator who was stealing and profiting off the works of other smaller queer creators. Maybe I’m just naive but I think that’s a good thing, and it wouldn’t have happened if everyone just twiddled their thumbs until KZbin got its shit together and handled its deeper issues.

[@netshaq2]

I agree 100%. That bit is just to illustrate my own personal initial response

[@erikvale3194]

I'm 99.9% sure he's queer to, so that probably played some roll in him ensuring James Somerton would be drawn and quartered in the court of public opinion.

[@netshaq2]

Please keep in mind that everything I say that you find “based” are my true honest sentiments, and every part you disagree with is just me being wrong on purpose to bait engagement.

[@faerieprincess1232]

Is all this deflection really necessary? I don’t mind that we might disagree on this or that, but I just don’t see the sense in belittling people for having disagreements with you in turn. Even if this is just your hyper-specific opinion, you posted it on your channel. You made the content. You did the thing. I just feel condescended to when you cut off the possibility of meaningful engagement with your video. I’m also worried, because of this deflection, that my comment now will be read as missing the point or the ironic detachment I’m apparently expected to posses. I guess I fell for the bait? I dunno, man.

[@ivyannanet]

Isn't that part of his style though? I think it's funny. It seems like people who normally would also are perhaps upset because it's something they care about.

[@NathanBrownisawesome]

the crazy part is that you're pretty on the money imo, except i also get angry when you call me out and hit my ego

[@shitbutt_esq]

based

[@ivn313]

based af

[@soloheroina]

this script is so good i think im gonna read it word for word in my own video and hopefully get a million views

[@tayzonday]

Thank you!

[@illpunchyouintheface9094]

Thank you for giving us white chocolate hail

[@gracebowyer95]

I always appreciate your takes, Shaq, you're very thoughtful and pragmatic, but I don't think hbomberguy's video is going to discourage anyone new looking to dip their toe into making content. At no point was hbomberguy calling out small creators who are allowed/expected to operate at that ninth grade level you mentioned, he's calling out people who are making thousands of dollars from their videos and have been making videos for years.

[@netshaq2]

Gosh I do love when my fears turn out to be unsubstantiated :)

[@ivyannanet]

Call-out vids aren't going to dissuade the big channels either, though. If anything, the creators who are decent people (and make good remixed content) are the ones we (the consumer) drive away.

[@Shoyren]

I’m an amateur internet artist. I can absolutely see some would-be creator having anxiety over sharing their stuff because they don’t wanna be accused of plagiarism/art theft. Also, bad/misinformed actors can and do accuse people of both of these things for petty reasons, though it’s not clear to me how often false accusations stick. (I want to believe it’s relatively infrequently but I could be optimistic.)

[@gscottanthony7483]

You know what's really funny is I found that video oddly inspiring to make content because it kinda reminded me that there are a lot of people who care about media and the effort that goes in. I'm less interested in joining a platform where months of work can be picked up by a larger vulture channel.

[@kui.kariuki]

@@netshaq2 I agree with the poster above and I think hbomb would too. The creators he brought up were not 'upcoming'. They were established creators making thousands off of other people's works while deliberately trying to hide that. And there will still be a market for that kind of 'content'. See: the response by Internet Historian's fanbase.

[@snazzydrew]

I watched the 4 hour video in one sitting when it came out... this is definitely not plagiarism because it's missing all the insanity. 🤣

[@ThePrimevalVoid]

Here’s a comment for engagement : I don’t think the video was just a compilation of vignettes, but rather setting up the individual pieces of plagiarism that would return in the final section about Somerton, just as you said. It is, imo, reflective of the broader cultural issue on KZbin because while James Somerton is the final boss in the video, he isn’t the only person doing this and there will be many more who do this and will continue to do this. It is also a very dramatic writing choice. Is there a version of the video that exists where he only talked about Somerton? Absolutely. I doubt I would have felt the same feeling of the dread sinking in the bones in that version though.

[@CommanderWar64]

Shaq, above all else, the main crux of the argument is that these plagiarists take someone’s work, not credit them properly and then try to imply that the work is their own. And it’s for money. People shouldn’t be worried at all if they’re inspired by something, hell if they’re that worried just cite your inspiration even if you don’t technically have to.

[@aravindkrishna2043]

I think that an angle that’s being missed here is that while video essays are information-dense, they’re often more emotionally charged than most folks realise. Hbomberguy choosing a topic that he has personal experience with his whole life (choosing to find his own style, Luke Stephens plagiarising his video) means that he can speak on this topic in a much more invested way. That level of resonance doesn’t exactly come naturally to topics like abusive KZbinrs and crypto scandals (which, I’d argue, Coffeezilla has cornered the market on). Also, it’s funny how the guy that plagiarised Hbomberguy, Lukiepoo (now Luke Stephens) legitimately did what you’ve done to Hbomberguy’s video but without the twist or giving credit (summarised Hbomberguy’s 90 minute Bloodborne video into 7 minutes without credits). It just goes to show how close some of these guys are to real creative work if not for just being averse to originality.

[@foxbox8116]

Sup shaq. as a small video essayist myself, I found the video inspiring for three reasons: 1) it’s an affirmation of original thought and of remixes. It views essay work as a craft and its nice seeing so many agree 2) Quality of work. My god, the thing I want to emulate most from hbomb is buttery flow. You’re also great at this 3) there’s no way in hell that I’m going to get low self esteem over my work now that I’ve seen what actual vapid work is. My shit gets seen by 100 people, but it fundamentally matters more then the garbage of theft. This video has great momentum behind it, and I hope it blows wind in the sails of weirdos who do bizzare media analysis. Peace ✌️

[@ststst981]

We wouldnt consider your summary plagiarism not because you acknowledged Harris but because you are addressing the video in third person and making no intellectual claim to the ideas from the video. You are no presenting the content as your own work, which is the issue

[@KLBoringBand]

I think Illimunaughty is more plagiarism than bad media (although it feels like both) because of how it tries to bury the lead by blurring the watermarks and putting filters over copyrighted material that would flag its usage. Even if she was doing a middle school “just copy the thing and switch out the words” to avoid doing homework, that’s still plagiarism and bad work. I think it’s worthwhile for better content’s sake to educate as many people as you can where they line is from borrowing heavily from something and passing off another’s work as your own. To be fair, I don’t think you’d even need to offer your “twist” here for it to be non-plagiarism. Distilling and summarizing a video takes interpretive effort that involves your own creative decisions on extracting the most salient points.

[@netshaq2]

I think someone might argue that compiling a couple blog posts and putting an illustrated pyramid lady on top is also transformative. I don’t think that personally, but someone who’s bad at producing media might. This is why we have “curators” like buzzfeed or FJerry

[@JEEntertainment89]

⁠​⁠@@netshaq2Do we have to accept that some sections of internet media consumers simply do not care, like you mentioned in the video, but then also define our view of "transformative" work along those same standards? If there is a population that does not readily care about what is transformative or plagiarism, why do we need to let their standards set how we measure or what we expect from established creators?

[@netshaq2]

Nobody needs to do anything I hope everyone with a song in their heart finds a way to sing it in the way that feels true :)

[@JEEntertainment89]

@@netshaq2What song represents the song in your heart at the moment, shaq?

[@MrSkeltal268]

I think there’s a third path here, which allows for certain creators to essentially be “summarizers” of other media via citing blog posts, forum posts, articles, movies etc. this is a role that serves a function in our time crunched society. Where the argument for this being the case for Blair or any of the other people Hbomberguy covers in his vid fall down is that Blair and others like her make attempts to hide this fact and present their work as sole researched, and only sprinkled with a few quotes. Like the vax video, she took everything from 1 documentary and tried to make it look like she researched multiple sources. When someone embraces the role of being a summarized of various available pieces of media, it can be good if the cite their sources and are upfront about what they are doing. But these types of creators are also not pulling in millions of views on every vid and it doesn’t scratch the itch people like Blair or Somerton want scratched.

[@10tothe10088]

I appreciate your warmth for beginners and mistakes in your cooking videos and I think that shines through here too - you're welcoming to people who might commit a mistake or not know the basics of putting together a video, like how to cite their sources or be original. I think I disagree somewhat. 1. I don't think people are particularly purity testing beginners. Harris wasn't really focusing on the early-day pirates of KZbin who uploaded a copyrighted song, got 50,000 views and made money, even though that's a more direct form of the same "crime". He's discussing people who get tens of millions of views and who have built careers on this. As a KZbinr yourself, you might feel like that's more precarious than I realize, but Harris isn't gatekeeping Illuminaughtii's ninth grade video essay, he's critiquing Illuminaughtii's career. Just like it's probably fair to say your bluejacking video is unacceptable for resale and commercial usage, i think it's important to highlight that her efforts, while reminiscent of a ninth-grade class project, aren't even close to that. I think he also makes an argument that this type of plagiarism might be a net harm - I'm not HBomber, but he repeatedly highlights professionals who likely lost their jobs in part to having their material stolen. If you asked Harris whether the world would be better off if Somerton or Illuminaughtii never got off the ground because they were too intimidated by purity testing to start making videos...there's a chance he'd answer "yes"

[@andersonic]

"How they react to criticism" is a big part of HBomber's video, especially with James Somerton. Anyone who called out his plagiarism or his harmful made up info (ie. all the interesting talented gays died of AIDS leaving unattractive assimilationists) was treated as a homophobic personal attack and harassed into silence by Somerton's fans. A new creator starting out has nothing to worry about until they start pulling ad dollars and Patreons. Even if they get caught in excessively recycling someone else's content, that's where they can acknowledge it and do better.

[@villuna_]

Great video shaq! I especially liked how you didnt give internet historian special treatment just because you share the same first name

[@ivn313]

ok this was funny

[@FrNSICs]

LOL

[@PeachCrusher69]

only because this channel's called Extranet Shaquille. I bet there would have been a 20 minute section praising their channel name if it was posted on the main channel. I'll bet 2 peso on that, actually.

[@rickfakhre2400]

An artist doesn't get their first painting in a museum, and a singer doesn't get their first song on the radio. So why should a video essayist get their first video recognized on a global platform? They can record something and not publish it, rewatch it, and make it better, scrap it or post it. If they are heavily copying someone else's work and then receive financial rewards, that's worse than if they didn't post at all. So seeing some higher level KZbinrs being called out for shitty practices seems like a good way to influence new creators to be mindful and careful. I don't see anything wrong with that. The message is not, "Don't try." The message is, "Eventually, you will be exposed as a fake, IF you take the easy way to the top." That's a good message because it probably doesn't happen as much as it should, so dissuading them from the start should weed out the bad ones.

[@user63838]

I'm only commenting cause you just said in your other video how you read the comments. 2 things I want to address: 1) your argument for "well worse things are happening, why should I care about this?". OK. Why do journalists of any genre exist. Who cares about a puppy mill bust when climate change is still happening. 2) I don't think this will actually make new content creators hesitant to start their journeys. I think the line of plagiarism is pretty clear cut, and if it's not, then you have to be so bad that someone needs to make a directors cut feature length film about you for anyone else to care

[@faerieprincess1232]

I came to post your first point. A weird argument which doesn’t seem germane to the topic at hand, except by way of dismissal

[@Snowjob109]

He admits to being (and even shows himself being called out by kenji lopez) the small creator that plagiarized recipes when he first started. He's gotta give that person a pass because he was that guy and still tries to justify it in this very video.

[@krombopulos_michael]

I appreciate your perspective but I also don't agree with the point about this discouraging other people from starting. I think much like with MeToo making people (including me) more conscious of how consent is supposed to work, a big plagiarism discussion will make people more aware of the topic and how to avoid it. I'm the same way that MeToo didn't make me stop flirting with women just because some really bad men abused their positions to coerce, and instead made me understand better their position, having an awareness of plagiarism is imo more likely to make people seek to avoid plagiarising. Maybe if this happened when you were a kid you would have just made sure to attribute the G4 video better, or looked for some other sources to pull from. Really I think this should fall to teachers themselves to explain, but short of that, a big KZbin video is good too. I also think that we generally understand that kids especially will make mistakes and won't be taken to task the same way. Even if a kid does clearly plagiarise work when they're 15, it's more or a chance to learn what they did wrong than a major violation. If you get to university and are still doing it though, it becomes more serious because now you're an adult in the real world.

[@greedisbad9890]

Knowledge create fear You can walk through a football field with no worries but once I say "the field is filled with landmines" that knowledge will create fear Also if you want to start a big and deep conversation about video plagiarism, that will not happen on the internet, that conversation will happen when the lawmakers decided that they need a law for that (that is if you want everyone to actually care about the the plagiarism and not crossing the line) That's what happen with books, movies, music, journal/paper, design, choreography just to name a few

[@candyh4284]

@@greedisbad9890 "Knowledge" can't create anything, it's an object. It is possessed, altered, given, but it cannot do anything of its own accord. *We* create fear not through knowledge, but through belief. Demonstration: the catholic church. There are, at any given point in human history, probably 60% of the population minimum that are scared shitless of death not because of death itself, but because of what they *believe* comes after it. But Socrates argued in "Apologia" that to fear the afterlife is arrogant, because it implies a knowledge of what's to come on the other side, when we cannot actually possess that. When you get scared of the landmines, you're not scared because you "know" there are landmines there, but because you *believe* there are landmines there. But the thing with belief is that it's often very malleable. We come to believe all sorts of stupid things for all sorts of stupid reasons, welcome to humanity. But what drives belief most tends to be experience. Sure when I say "belief" we're inclined to think of esoteric, immaterial beliefs like a belief in God or a belief in a "free market" (if you believe either of those, believe the first one, not the second), but going by volume we have the most beliefs about the actual stuff we've experienced. I believe I'm sitting in my bed right now, in a room, typing on a computer, the room is part of a larger series of rooms that exists on a stretch of pavement connected to other stretches of pavement, etc etc etc. Most belief is a part of knowledge we have. Epistemologists (epistemology is the study of knowledge, how we come to know things, what we can be said to truly know, etc.) have often held that to "know" something is to have a justified, true belief of it. So you must first believe: I believe I'm sitting in a bed. That belief has to be "justified," meaning I have to have a good reason to believe it; I can feel the mattress on my body, when I bounce it gives the same bounce I feel on my bed, etc. Then, that belief has to "true." Truth is the tricky one. The deal with truth is that it's relative. But when you say "relative," many people hear "arbitrary," and you have to nip that in the bud. "Truth" is not arbitrary, but it is relative. To say something's "relative" means that it can only be defined in relation to other things. So while a skeptic who's very committed might doubt that they even exist, and might struggle to come up with a rationale for that, that doesn't make it "untrue" inasmuch as relative to the "truth" of everything else, it is "true." So, given the truth of me existing in my bed, for instance, there's also the relative truth of me existing in my room and my surroundings being largely true, barring some kind of physical malfunction like a vision problem or delusional hallucination. So it exists on a sliding scale, and as such, so does knowledge. But, you can say that relative to the truth of your current observations of the material world, X is true, and be objectively "correct" to a degree that's passable to do business. Anyway, that was a bit of a tangent. What I'm getting at here is that the malleability of belief and its relativity to experience makes it such that this fear is just a hypothetical anxiety that goes away for the most part once you learn how to cite sources. As someone who has spent most of my adult life writing essays, that's been my experience with it. It's intimidating, because your mind is filling your belief in with all sorts of garbage to fill the gaps where your experiences go. When you make experiences, cite your sources, and someone else reviews your work, you'll realize that it wasn't actually that bad, and that citations are annoying at worst, and weirdly satisfying at best, but ultimately not particularly "make or break" as long as you're not actually, intentionally, and maliciously stealing someone else's work and passing it off as your own. And I don't do that, and if you're getting started as a creator, you probably don't either. And if you do, well, it's a good thing you're just getting started, so you can change that habit and make better work by designing it yourself rather than using someone else's blueprints.

[@greedisbad9890]

@@candyh4284 I ain't reading all that 😂

[@candyh4284]

@@greedisbad9890 Your loss.

[@PrayJackPok]

Vaguely related to the concept of the video, but I wanted to hone in on the point about "bartenders being good at giving credit" and the "why drink history is more known than food." To be fair I have a more solid hypothesis on why drink recipes are more credited, as opposed to why food isn't. I think it's because of how we learn to make one over the other. Food recipes are passed down mostly through experience, your family or friends teach them to you. For most people the food that makes you want to cook is had at home, a location without much citation. Drinks that make you want to learn to mix, tend to be had at a bar/restaurant, somewhere that meticulous notes are taken, and the person taking those notes is an arms length away. Chefs and cooks on the other-hand, who would also take meticulous notes, are tucked away in the kitchen and even in the most open concept restaurants, it's intimidating to ask them questions while they are dealing with sharp knives and flaming dishes. You typically only get to chat with the chef if you're a person of note or it's a fairly slow night. All this to say, it's easier to ask a bartender "how'd you come up with this" vs a chef. This lends to the culture of bars being so focused on sharing the history, it is also likely because once you have a drink or two you enjoy telling stories. Not to say recipe stealing doesn't happen in the space, I've had a recipe or two ganked from me when I was first starting. But at the time had a "wow I can't believe I made something worth stealing" mentality, and it was mostly within my own bar so getting it on the menu is a win regardless.

[@bnuuyliker]

Glad to have your yoink & twist so I can finally share the news with my girlfriend in a way she’ll sit through. Your outline was really well-written, and I always appreciate your care for new artists. As a university student approaching graduate school, I find that plagiarism there is taken seriously in a superficial way. There are consequences for getting caught not following proper procedure, but it’s hard to enforce the spirit of originality. I think Hbomb’s take on the matter is an aspirational one that I hope to incorporate in my own work. But, I think I can come to that conclusion *because* I have the basics down. Again, nice work! This was a valuable addition to the conversation.

[@cooberr]

i think this is a really valuable end note for aspiring writers, video essayists, and youtubers alike, thanks shaq. if someone comes out of that video with fears that might stop them from creating, that is something we gotta worry about. personally when i got to the conclusion of hbombs video i couldn’t help but feel inspired, i do my very best to cite all my sources, and some people for whom academia is out of reach for whatever reason, might have little to no knowledge about what chicago style means except to pizza, but i’m always looking for someone with a voice and unifying perspective to grab ideas from, and this video scratches that same itch for me

[@Ralore]

Love the amount of second channel content 🙏🙏 also made your sauce tonight for friend dinner was a hit

[@m.s.flores]

Which sauce? Yum! Glad it turned out great!

[@srushed]

THANK YOU, i really needed this review

[@DarrienGlasser]

I watched both. Thanks for the recap

[@Artz22]

I love these videos. They feel so good with the adjusted aspect ratio! And a refreshing change of pace from Mr Beast-like content. Thanks!

[@conorcasey4233]

This is a really empty rant to cope with yoinking a potato recipe 5 years ago lol

[@theultimatenatmaster]

Hi iShaq! Longtime viewer, probably first time commenter, generally a big fan of your work. I think there are some big misses in this video: 1: Not to nitpick semantics, but combining 5-10 diverse influences into a new product - that's original! To an extent all culture is remix culture, some more sophisticately presented than others. 2: I get that this is your initial gut response but this is just classic whataboutism. Should people only push for change from the top down first? Have you not made multiple videos about personal gripes with cooking products/ food media that could have targeted more serious issues? 3: This strikes me as inconsistent with your later point about responsibility increasing with audience size. I don't see a reason to be as charitable to an adult deceiving viewers and patrons as one would to a 9th-grader. 4: You essentially argue here that the status quo is too hard to change, so you ignore it. I find this really sad. I typically respect you as an effective voice in your field, particularly when using that voice to highlight bad products trying to take advantage of consumer naivete. Imo HBomb is doing a similar thing, but instead of prepackaged smoothies it's repackaged writing. The aim is to educate the audience/ consumer about bad practice. This video presents you as feeling some perceived solidarity with the plagiarists, which is understandable given your mentioned schoolwork/ early KZbin videos. It's been great to see you and your creative practice grow alongside your audience! If you're worried about new creators being discouraged by fears of purity tests, it would be cool to see content geared towards using copying as education or successfully navigating the shift from small - medium - large creator. As a viewer, teaching good practice is a lot more inspiring than equivocating about how much bad practice we should ignore.

[@fiat1314]

There is an issue with personal views here. How many content creators do you have to combine in order to qualify as original? When are you a small-medium-grande creator? Where is profesionalism expected on a open platform like youtube where world monopolies and the individual can(i have to conceed technicaly) upload the same content. Edit: I watched the hbomb about a week ago in one sitting. i think the video is a net positive, being a disillusined IH viewer as well. it really is a exemplary video for youtube imo but i still kind of feel bitter about it? i come from somwhere that artificially suppresses gender politics so this was like a major introduction to me, my toughts are very comlicated about it in general...

[@GatorAidMedical]

love the talking head mic stuff

[@kylemoder7550]

My main problem with Hbomb's video is that linking a pirated version of a documentary instead of the Hulu link is kind of baller, actually.

[@guyinshirt_]

VERY eat the rich of her, kudos honestly

[@saladbar1212]

Since you mentioned in a previous video that you read all of your comments, I'll actually leave one. In addition to being the "KZbinr who respects his audience the most" in my opinion, you are an excellent speaker. I mean that in the literal sense (enunciation, tempo, structure). As someone who occasionally has to give tours and present in my lab, I've grown to appreciate how important, and challenging, it can be to present effectively. At first, I thought it was just a matter of knowing the information, but you can really detract from your message by speaking too fast and tripping up or not enunciating. I was complimented by one of my managers after a recent tour and I honestly believe I owe you part of the credit. Thanks for everything you do on here.

[@user-xr2fg4qm5h]

IMO points 1 and 6 miss the point of the Hbomberguy video. It's not that they were being unoriginal in content concept, it's that they engaged in content farming copy/pasted large swathes of text from other writers and passed it off as their own or use crowdfunding to grift their followers -- that has nothing to do with originality or creating a unique identity. Likewise, I don't think anyone is going to feel dissuaded from making a KZbin channel because of a plagiarism purity test unless they are the kind of person who would copy/paste content into their scripts... in which case they probably shouldn't start their own channel.

[@davidcampos8795]

The way you acknowledged Kenji is everything This is now my preferred channel over your main one

[@crunkcore]

I can’t help but feel that in our heart of hearts we all want and deserve credit for our own words. Even if it’s to “get started”, copying someone verbatim does nothing for your creative capabilities, and deals a major blow to the plagiarized party. I seriously don’t think that should be encouraged. I do, of course, condone taking inspiration from others, or perhaps practicing by copying someone else’s work. For instance, I know that it’s a common practice for painters to practice their technical skills by copying another painting. As long as the artist isn’t selling or displaying that then copied artwork - passing it off as their own - there’s no issue. If you’re gonna copy someone, either keep it in the drafts or give clear, obvious credit to the original creator…

[@coachartie]

This is such an interesting video coming out at such an interesting time. Tbh theae videos of yours have inspired me a lot. Ive started to try this format of video woth my content. A sit down with no breaks or cuts. Even down to the aspect ratio ive been wanting to copy cause it gives such a personal feeling to the videos. But since watching hbomber vid I was actually scared to give these changes a try. I felt like i was now obligated to ask you to try this format of video out. Even though I have a similar opinion to you. At least one thats not as extreme as hbg. Thanks for sharing your opinion. Makes me feel a little more at ease acting on what inspires me.

[@stevenjacobs2750]

Re: bluejacking video Theres a pretty significant difference between doing something for school and doing something for money. I think your video probably did pass the sniff test. Plus you even got your own stock footage, more than most of the creators in the hbomberguy vid. Anyway, fun summary. Love how much the other creators I like are talking about this. Clearly he hit a nerve.

[@netshaq2]

Our school did this thing where a lot of our videos were submitted to “compete” against other videos for awards and recognition, so I do cringe when I think of the ideas I stole for that class :/ Fun fact: I did technically win an Emmy (albeit a lesser student version) for a big competition senior year, and it was 0% plagiarized :)

[@m1n3craftPCtut0r1al]

Dead thread but I’d like to say: while there is a difference between academic and business plagiarism, id say only personal plagiarism is acceptable. Like ripping off a story for a DND campaign is fine, but selling the module would be a no no. In academia there is always the expectation that your work is 100% your own, even in cases where you work with others it should be 100% that group.

[@JosephReference]

the most real dude, you've been teaching me more about myself every video.

[@josenavarro6897]

Hi shaq, i'll boost the channel and give some thoughts. Love the conclusions, but specially the presentation, makes me think of the "man in cave" video vs original article, it is useful to get texts/videos out of their original format to reach more people. good citation and acknowledgement makes it a win win (imo). I feel similarly with cooking recipes and any topic that doesn't really have much legal ownership, reminds me of the indie table top rpg comunity, where people make new games and always cite their inspirations, which leads to a endless almost "wikipedia dive" into different awesome games.

[@zolopane117]

I’m grateful for your openness in these talking head segments. I will always forget whether you approve or disapprove of 86’s, but I’m glad you’re willing to share knowledge and attribute sources along the way

[@noelperez2847]

The Mayhem Farmer shirt is pretty meta for this video

[@WaaluigiBoard]

Your point on “yea it sucks that plagiarism on KZbin exists, but so do legitimate criminal activities,” is kind of irrelevant. This video is about plagiarism. People can make videos on different topics and multiple problems can exist at the same time. So what hbomber made a 4 hour video on plagiarism and not on worse problems. It’s what he was interested in and went down the rabbit hole. He’s a creator and other creators can make content like that on the worse problems. The only way I agree with this point is that yes, child abuse is worse than plagiarism. But plagiarism is a legitimate illegal activity.

[@danimallyvgm]

thank you sir for this summary.

[@twistedbiscuit69]

Man no one’s saying that beginners shouldn’t make derivative content. And just because there are “bigger problems” doesn’t mean that smaller problems shouldn’t be addressed. Rare shaq L

[@shmendusel]

I don't know if I agree with everything you say in the video, but I'm super happy I watched it. We often believe the first thing we hear on a topic, especially if it's well put or well sourced. And watching a video that challenges some of the core assumptions in HB's video managed to take me out of my hypnotized and fully convinced state.

[@blunderbussinurbutt]

To your first point, when every time we addressed a problem in the world if the first response was "let's fix this more important, insurmountable worse problem first", we'd get nothing done. One could say the same thing to your videos where you criticize other youtubers/trends/anything, "don't you care about this worse thing over here? why are you focused on this instead?"

[@anachronismic]

Appreciate you sharing this! I did think about your content after reading the J Kenji Lopez-alt comment, since i found you on the potato recipe which was youink/twisted, though youre definitely transformative on the recipes i would think. Honestly it feels fine for this to not be your cause (and people seem to be missing your point on the potential chilling effect lol, dont know that a 12 yr old necessarily understands the different latitudes people give), but "there are better things to be focused on" as a mindset can end up as something that makes people (anectodtally me) freeze up instead of taking actions that can be taken.

[@anachronismic]

The "this content isn't for me" angle is I think the best angle to approach things as a consumer, but when the content you make is analytical video essays I feel like it's fair to come to the conclusion you can't look away.

[@anachronismic]

Oop everyone's said what I've said lol ignore me

[@MrSkeltal268]

If I could add a personal anecdote here. I’m fairly old, so I had a website on the internet as slid back when Homestead was around. Being young and dumb, I remember visiting websites I thought were neat and copying them. I was naive to the ways of doing things then and thought this was ok. Until one day I got a threatening letter telling me to cease and desist, takedown/change my site or suffer consequences. It taught me a valuable lesson that day. You can be inspired by others but outright copying is not ok. And I’d hope you see the distinction there. Cause while I want new creators to feel free to experiment and remix, we don’t want the new creators to be the ones who think stealing is ok. To quote Ian Malcom, “Discovery is a violent penetrative act that scars what it explores”. Ok maybe that’s a bit dramatic but my point is, young creators will learn the lessons they need to, that’s what will eventually make them excellent creators. Like yourself!

[@bbrainstormer2036]

To be fair, iilluminaughtii did a lot of other really bad stuff. It's not worth going down the rabbit hole, but she's done plenty of other nasty things, including abusing several of her former boyfriends. Good video; I just thought that was worth pointing out.

[@letthePigeondrivethebus]

Was scrolling for this! There is WAY more to that channel's issues

[@brandongunnarson7483]

I appreciate your insight and interpretation on the essay. I wonder if hbomb made it with a specific audience in mind, namely an audience that knew and loved those creators. I had personally seen and enjoyed all but one and, for me, the essay was more about informing audiences. I enjoyed Somerton's work in particular for some of the insights he had (stolen). I remember when he made a video saying he was struggling financially and that any help was appreciated to help elevate the queer perspective. I bought it. I watched somerton on a loop thinking I needed to do everything I could to keep a valuable marginalized perspective afloat. For me a crucial part of hbomb's video was the methodical deconstruction of my image, trust, and respect for someone I trusted. I needed it to be 4 hours long because I needed the time to process and see in real time the irrefutable evidence that I had been duped

[@guacamolelover454]

I saw you mentioned zero punctuation as an inspiration. I'm curious whether you've seen what happened to the escapist over the past month or so?

[@superguy183828]

Love your videos Shaq, but...... 3:20 this tiny disclaimer should probably have been a big ol full-screen disclaimer in retrospect. And I don't disagree with your final conclusion (7:55) But I can see people getting lost in between with what might sound like apologia for James Somerton. I'd also say, there's some conflating of young people and new creators, which I understand (I think you intend this to be a very personal take and you personally started as a new creator when you were a young person) , but i think should be two different discussions. All over our society we, correctly, know that kids haven't fully learned what it really means to be in a society and give them breaks accordingly (juvenile court vs tried as an adult for example). Whereas adults, even new creators should be held to a different standard. With adults, the line becomes much more obvious when it comes to profiting off other people's work and not giving them money or even acknowledgement. All adults should know that. But new creators likely aren't going to be making any money yet, so it's less of an issue (although they obviously should be doing everything right from the beginning, I don't think we have to worry about people destroying the careers of someone with 2 videos and 20 views before they can improve and fix their mistakes). My biggest disagreement is actually about kids being discouraged by watching Hbomberguy's video; my reaction while watching the video was "damn, they should really use this to teach plagiarism in school to make it feel relevant and not just some syntax nitpicking gotcha moment in academic papers." making plagiarism as simple as "passing off someone else's idea as your own" is so much more understandable. And it's totally easy and for kids to just say "I saw this great thing that resonated with me, from so and so, and explain what liked about it and what it made me think of". More like a critic. I think showing kids that it makes you smart to talk about cool things you read, and it makes you arrogant to pretend like you know everything yourself.

[@rudimcpherson]

I hadn't thought very much about the potential fears of new creators, though it must be said I don't think the hbomb video will lead to a big cultural shift. May have been reading between the lines however after watching his video as well as the extra channel vid, but I think part of why he is so passionate about the topic is misinformation. There's a lot of focus on content that should be well researched during the video and other forms of plagrism such as empty chair streamer react content only gets a small joke mention. It's like you mentioned in the recent tiktok video on this channel, we want to trust people at face value, even online when we know there's incentives other than being a good source of information. I think misinformation spreads faster when plagrism and a lack of research is so common.

[@eggyparrot3844]

For a mixologist-esque take on food recipes (with that respect and anthropology you referenced), definitely check out Glenn and Friends Cooking here on youtube. He has a regular series (the old cook book show) that does deep dives on the history of recipes, following them through popular old cookbooks and archived newpapers. Really interesting from a cooking and history point of view, and very high production value going back years

[@joonaskarjalainen8265]

I love that J. Kenji López-Alt was in the HBomber's comments saying how important that video is. Then we have responses like this...

[@KingAwesome8218]

I think you really missed the mark with Hbomb's video. I think this video actually falsely construes the main point of Hbomb's video and at worst actively puts out misinformation that it's anything to do with targeting newer content creators.

[@mattwood2894]

Hey good thoughts that are nuanced. I hope you put out a video soon on styling facial hair

[@rampion1228]

I think a huge part of what James did that was so wrong was cultivating an audience of people who felt isolated and disenfranchised by mainstream culture and presenting himself as this sole creator who was using his huge platform to shine a light on the issues that he and his audience struggled with. He then used that connection to financially exploit his audience and convince them to attack people who called him out. His behaviour was extremely manipulative and toxic and did a lot of damage, both to the people he plagiarised from and to the people who trusted him.

[@friendlyneighborhoodbastar3723]

this is a good take but i think it applies to more artistic work than academic. my concept of plagiarism comes from academia where plagiarism is a mortal sin. whats interesting is that in academia it is perfectly ok and heavily incentivized to use other peoples work as long as it is properly credited. there is an entire genre of publication that is just a summary of a bunch of other peoples work. the man in hole video is particularly interesting to me because it took this interesting (i would argue) academic text, added a new dimension to it and then simply failed to credit the original text. it would have been so cool if it was done in collaboration with the original author and it would have been more accurate too. anyway the main thing is that its not really about if you’re ideas are your own but if you’re giving proper credit.

[@sonnykennison3249]

I think part of the point made here is a reason why plagiarism is a mortal sin in academia is that everyone in academia has had years of practice during which they probably turned in an essay that took words without quoting or didn't properly cite an already small number of sources. We all went to middle and high school and as someone who's taught in a high school, I've seen basically nobody who was perfect about citation right out of the gate and neither was I. We can hold everyone in academia to a higher standard because they have had the time in the field that they shouldn't be 'operating on a ninth grade level' because they graduated ninth grade. That said I'd say the vast majority of Hbomb's examples were more clearly willful, obviously knowing what they're doing was passing off someone else's work as their own and doing it anyway, for money. Which was always not acceptable. Though in high school you change money to grades.

[@damascus21]

Love ya shaq but you missed the point of hbomb's video tbh. All your points fail to engage with the video, which is weird since your summary demonstrates a clear understanding of the vid's points, but more importantly, downplay the gravity of the what the plagiarists did here, how they affected livelihoods, friendships, etc.

[@almazingsk8er]

Sample-based hip hop culture also handles the "taking" of someone else's work in interesting ways. At the top level, with record labels and large album rollouts, if a producer uses another artist's work in their own songs, they have to "clear" the sample and get that usage approved. Sometimes it's giving the original artist a cut of profits, sometimes it's just the other artist saying, "yeah go ahead" and that's it. When labels get involved it gets really complicated; artists disapproving of a sample being taken but the label who actually owns the rights lets it happen and vice versa. Clearing a sample, how to do it, when to do it, and so on is an amorphous blob of legal rights and money exchanging hands. But in the producer community itself, sampling is widely accepted and encouraged. Changing a sample so much to make it nearly unrecognizable but still sound good is the hallmark of great producer. There are entire websites dedicated to listing out what songs are sampled in popular tracks. The "crate digging" scene is entirely focused on finding obscure records that people haven't sampled before and making something out of them. There is a debate about how much of a song you can leave untouched before it's blatant theft, but a lot of that conversation is muddled by company's suing for copyright infringement in the search of a quick buck. I will also say there are sometimes I hear a song, recognize the sample, and feel disappointed by how lazy the chop and flip was. It's a weird thing to think about.

[@superdark336]

Good video shaq! Smth that was "missed" in the summery that also ties in to your point abt these content mills catering to people who just dont care is the anecdote about Plagiarism being seen as an "Insult". Luke Shithead (who, depsite a big ol block of text saying he grew as a person, hasnt actually changed much) trying to rally up haters to his cause when hbomb first pointed out his plagiarism, Internet Historian Fans in the comments doing their absolute BEST at proving that its the soymmunist queer leftist evil cancel culture whatever besmirching Dear KZbinr, The melania trump story.... all the children and otherwise normies who Just Want To Watch Videos not only do not care about plagiarism happening, they will encourage it as long as they get their slop served on time. The point abt Kenji and Recipe Ownership to me seemed less abt Ownership and more abt acknowledging all the rigorous testing that he and his colleagues performed to come to their conclusions, instead of copying the results as if its smth that appeared out of thin air. Like its one thing to say "Kenji in The Food Lab has tested that washed mushrooms brown just as well, it might take a few more moments" and another to say "look at this cool wok recipe that i invented, my name is joshua weismann and i wont squander my dignity typing like he speaks"

[@cerberusthethird]

In regards to #2 or "why this, when there are much worse targets you could be going after?" I think it's a case of audience overlap, namely that being an audience that would care about this stuff, and the frustration of seeing who is effectively your colleague scamming those people. You kinda touched on it later in the video that the guys doing crypto scams and stake sponsorships are going after people who don't care, or at least not enough to watch a 4 hour video about it. A big part of the thesis is that there's no central authority handing out punishments on high -- we have to hold 'creators' (whatever that means) accountable ourselves and if the people they're ripping off have no idea or don't give a damn, they're kinda invincible in that regard. You see it already where a lot of IH's fans have taken the (comparatively) short and extremely-tame section about his video and are trying to make it out like some culture-war hitpiece entirely about him for simply failing to cite a source and also even if he did steal it, who cares, right? He'll probably just ignore it and pull out on the other side just fine. Somerton on the other hand, even before he self-immolated his entire social media presence was already losing hundreds of patreon supporters.

[@meloneatingwolf1882]

He re-uploaded his channel with a new apology video… and he’s deleted it again.

[@RubyJamez]

The only thing I want to add is that "9th grade content" is not really a good excuse for plagiarism or for pushing scams and so on. It would be a bad taste to say attack some random kid with 1k subs on yt simply because they plagiarized something, true, but when we talk about creators with Mln+ subs and millions of views- story is different. At this point you fan just hire an edditor or fact checker and run everything through them if you can't write by yourself.

[@illpunchyouintheface9094]

Someone has to make a even short version based off this video

[@Syy]

Love your vids Shaq, but it seems to me like you’re conflating “plagiarism” with “influenced by” when you argue against the points of the video. Saying, “New creators should be allowed to take influence from the people who inspired them”, like… duh. No one’s arguing that position, not even HBomberguy. He literally ends the video talking about this distinction and saying it’s a wonderful thing to remix ideas and styles. “Plagiarism” is much more specific - literally copying words verbatim and pretending you were the one who wrote it. There’s a world of difference between 11-year-old me getting my start making reviews of things I cared about, inspired by a bunch of my favorite KZbinr’s doing the same thing - and if I had literally copied one of their scripts word for word and passed it off as if I had wrote it.

[@netshaq2]

that thing you quoted me as saying isn’t what I said

[@Syy]

_“What I really don’t want to happen after all the plagiarism discourse is for wannabe video-makers to hesitate to make their first video for fear of a plagiarism purity-test. Beginners of any hobby should be fully allowed to make derivative work, to ape their favorite media, and to experiment before developing their own point of view.” - The Hbomberguy Plagiarism Video (Short Version), Internet Shaquile, 2023_ To the first point: this is the conflation of “inspired by” and “plagiarism”. I'm unaware of any cartoon villains going around trying to cancel a 10-year-old with 2 subscribers because he made a video that's got a similar style to a popular KZbinr they're a fan of. To the second point: Duh.

[@netshaq2]

I would not have personally made the bluejacking video at 4:20 if I was embroiled in plagiarism discourse as a young boy

[@Syy]

@@netshaq2 If you were "embroiled in plagiarism discourse", isn't it more likely you would've made the video _better_ , rather than not made it at all?

[@netshaq2]

I don’t think so (because I had minimal technical skills, now hypothetically paired with the idea that my natural approach is something only bad guys do)

[@VagabondTE]

I just watched your video on video essays and wanted to come check out this one right after. I left a comment about why the H bomber Guy video may not be a video essay, which I won't reiterate. But I just wanted to say real quick that I fully agree with your conclusions here. The effect of the video is a different subject than whether or not it's an essay and yeah I completely agree that its effect is a little too strong. We could really benefit greatly from H bomber guy himself having conversations with people like you who can at least offer different perspectives. I don't think H bomber guy was irresponsible or anything. I don't think he did anything wrong. But we can really use a longer more in-depth conversation.

[@Goatmaster-ek8rq]

I feel like it's super important to recognize the difference between unoriginality and plagiarism. I feel like it gets a bit muddled both here and in Hbomb's original vid, with the section about AVGN clones and the conclusion. Citing your sources correctly is imo something that should be demanded even of beginners, but copying someone's style while you search for your own is obviously a pretty normal thing to do. Hell, originality p much comes down to stealing from enough different sources.

[@FrNSICs]

that’s nice shaq but this video is too long, could someone make a short TL;DW of this

[@linhao3684]

I think we should have higher standards when it comes to academic research - especially when they are making money off the "9th grade level" videos that they produced. Not everyone needs to be empowered when they are the exploitation. As a person who spent 8 years in different universities and I have witnessed university students who struggle with the concept of citation, just like you said, cause they were never taught and we need to teach them. Stealing isn't ok, especially from someone who spent years into making and inspiring others to follow the research

[@Exercise4CheatMeals]

As far as food content goes, it isn't hard to spend 5-10 seconds to shout someone out/give credit for a technique you learned or a recipe you made that was based heavily on another creator. Although he would still have incredible respect and a large following, I don't think Kenji would be where he is today without people like you, Brian Lagerstrom, Babish, Ethan Chlebowski, etc shouting him out as much as you guys have. I agree that creators just starting out don't know any better, but I have seen countless examples of this occurring from creators who have 100K+ followers. At that point in the learning curve, there should be no reason you are copying someones recipe verbatim and essentially claiming it as your own work.

[@loopholesloopy]

Your plagiarism purity thing putting off new creators rings true for me, I'm literally JUST starting to want to make animations, and a big inspiration for that is music, now obviously this goes into copyright territory too, and my intent would be to credit the hell out of the music makers, but I kind of want to yoink some music and try to animate over it, not only that but I have character designs based on things I like, do I need to credit every little inspiration? The characters themselves are wholly original, but I liked a ps1 game 20 years ago, and I like album covers, if I get noticed even a little am I going to be destroyed by people wanting to catch plagiarism? KZbin is a platform with professionals making millions, but not everyone is, most people arent, im neither a professional nor making money.

[@williamaitken7533]

This is a good breakdown of the topic. I agree with you regarding amateurs being given leeway because it's a hobby or due to emulation being an easy in. But I don't think John Bombington was asking for a purity test. Just that he wanted people to be critical of the content they watch and look for signs that things might not be on the up and up. And that creators stop plagiarizing, ESPECIALLY if they're going to make money off of it. It seems like a pretty simple situation.

[@Brent-jj6qi]

3:30 this doesn't actually disagree with the Hbomberguy saying be original, you are doing your own original thing remixing multiple sources into your own style

[@ImmersiveSportsScience]

There is an earlier video on his channel about plagiarism uploaded 10 years earlier.

[@desertedham37]

this shit went so hard I was so glad I had the day off it came out

[@teknonmy7210]

fodder is fodder, whether it's straight plagiarism or they took the time to rephrase the source content well enough (or just used chat GPT). It's the egregiousness of people working 10 hours a week making 10-12k a month and ripping off people's work wholesale that's the issue I also don't think most people are aware how much content there is teaching people how to make AI enabled content farms. I started a new channel to make high production value content and because youtube clocked that I was interested in video production, half my home page was tutorials on automating and templating video production, where you basically write a prompt and get a short form vertical video in like 10 minutes with minimal effort. Each of these tutorials had 100k+ views, many above a million and god, the complaint about the video being too long because it's just a compilation of the incedences of plagiarism and the fact that hbomberguy kept saying "I would go through all the plagiarism, but I'd be here forever" is hilarious. It could've been a one hour video,,, and yet as a final point, the hbomberguy video makes me want to produce content more than before, because all my scripts are stream-of-thought

[@5minus4equalsUNITY]

dope video but more importantly that shirt is fire where did you find it

[@pantsumancer]

re: your point about other youtube grifts - he does make other videos. have you watched them?

[@amosbehavedcalm]

Can we skip to the dinner part?

[@rampion1228]

I think if anything it gives people starting out on KZbin a good guide for how to avoid plagiarism. He points to potential pitfalls like having a very rushed timeline, he explains how to source properly, and he gives a great run down on how to use Wikipedia as a good starting point for further research: why it's a good resource, but also why it's a bad idea to rely on it too heavily. To say illuminati was operating at a nineth grade level is a bit wierd considering she was a grown woman running her own business, have you considered that everyone featured in the video reacted badly to criticism because he specifically chose to talk about repeat offenders who had multiple oppourtunities to learn and do better, but chose to instead distort the criticism they were recieving and find ways to work around it instead of doing their own work? Overall, this video gave me a bit of a weird vibe. It feels like you're gesturing at an argument he didn’t make, and dismissing the seriousness of what James did right after acknowledging how bad it was. That is my personal take on it, though.

[@Snowjob109]

remixing is originality. shout out to the great artist and art teacher steve huston

[@paulunga]

I agree with a lot of your points, but the whataboutism of "let's stop those more dangerous KZbin crimes first" struck me as weird because it's completely unrelated issues. It's as if you tell someone who just read an essay about Ancient Greece that you're more interested in the Edo period. Cool, I guess?

[@malonshammer]

I don't think "if you're a massively successful channel who's plagiarizing all their work you should stop" and "beginner's tend to frankenstein things together until they establish their own style" really have that much cross over? The issue was how much space was eaten up by bad faith plagiarists stealing attention and money away from people who did the work and aren't being recognized and/or losing revenue. Not demonizing small creator's finding their footing. If some people can't understand that nuance, that's worth losing a few hobbyists if it means people are more critical of these bloated POS channels taking up space and resources. All the real problems you mentioned are also absolutely disgusting and need to be stamped out as well. Interesting how capitalism is kind of the underlying cause of every single one of these issues. Oh did I zoom out to issues that're too big? Right right, it's just the worse youtubers we need to focus on and not the underlying reasons that lead to them doing the truly horrendous shit they get up to. My bad.

[@netshaq2]

what in da hell

[@Smell-O-Vision-Citrus]

What?

[@st2udent_650]

Admit it Shaq, your eyes glazed over 5 minutes in when there wasn't a split screen with Temple Runners on the bottom to keep your attention.

[@opnuul]

oh my god he's talking right to me about the "don't hesitate to make your own video" thing. well,, this is a sign 😳

[@smileyfacelessthanthree4623]

I love the cheeky commentary with the video length (and how you later expanded on it in your video about dull video essays), but in the case of HBomberguy he was making a point PEOPLE DONT LOOK AT REFERENCES So he "forced" his audience to do the research with him, showing with the length of the video (similar to how you did it) on how much one puts into research. He didn't want to be called out later on by the mentioned channels and risk his credibility by putting stuff in the description or simply relying on "trust me bro" mindset of the internet or hoping that his fanbase will defend him. No, he gave every ounce of proof required so you can have your all-in-one video to refer to in case you were on the fence about his claims. Plus it plays into his "unhinged British man is mad about something" persona. Now if someone would only make meta commentary on top your meta commentary, about how internet distances us from original sources of information usually exchanging accuracy for convenience of consumption...

[@netshaq2]

great point ty!

[@mynciee]

I'm wondering how much KZbin creator tools do anything, if at all, to help creators curb plagiarism?

[@cocoasteam]

I will read this video script out loud word for word just as Hunter S. Thompson once typed out the Great Gatsby word for word.

[@kevinxu3892]

Pretty cool your magnet school actively supported video production! Ours cut the video production program for not being science and tech enough, and for some reason the principal couldn’t maintain the same quality of morning announcements by himself…

[@peculiarkindalur1222]

Just wanted to say Thanks for the summary. Heard a lot about the video, but wasn't planning on watching (no matter how many recommends J.Kenji throws in to my sub box). This was a nice and non-inflammatory way to convey the message.

[@tortpleaser]

There's a difference between a work being derivative and a work being plagiarized. Hbomberguy illustrates this distinction in his discussion of the LegalEagle debacle. I think hbomberguy makes clear that there is nothing wrong with compiling information from an array of sources into a new product, as long as the sources are correctly attributed to their authors. He implies throughout the video that the issue isn't that creators are reciting other people's works near-verbatim, but rather that they are purposely obfuscating the fact that they are doing so to maximize the profitability of their content. Had hbomberguy's critique just been, "plagiarism is bad in any context", he wouldn't have dedicated so much screen time to evidence that the plagiarism at issue was intentional. He also would not have discussed at length how the creators manipulated their scripts and visuals to evade detection. I agree with most of your points, but I think your reading of the video is a bit uncharitable.

[@blehbleh9283]

Great aspect ratio

[@Ramsker]

2:03 love the lil norm mcdonald bit

[@aldenkahl8703]

Remixing is originality. It's combining things in a new interesting way. The idea that remix culture is good is simply not in conflict with the statement originality is a good thing even a goal on to itself

[@burnout54]

BRB, recording your script word for word because I'm the most brainwashed Shaqolyte

[@svantewiktorsson]

Everyone steals kenjis recipes because he is the GOAT. But cooking is kinda like art. Your own recipes are going to me a mix of all that you have learnt.

[@adamcharming]

Mark Ronson, everything's a remix does the remix culture justice

[@ethannoble8564]

Shaq id love a whole series of summarizing long video essays

[@dailyjetboating3607]

GOBBLESS