The Heartbreaking Tale of Annie | Growing Pains | The New Batman Adventures

[@josecuestas7246]

"The hardest thing about this job, is you can't always saves everybody."

[@SerumLake]

Sometimes there are no happy endings…

[@skrappothemonster1436]

As a Little Nightmares fan I know that very well...

[@michaelandreipalon359]

To counteract this, via the Metro Rangers: "If not us, *then who?"*

[@iceluvndiva21]

"the thing no one tells us about dreams? It's that nightmares can come true too"

[@kaytlinjustis5643]

For me, this episode was difficult, as we come into question whether Annie was truly 'alive' or not. We even see it from multiple points of view; Robin, Clayface, and even Annie herself. We first see from Robin's POV; a lost young girl out in a dangerous city so he does what he does best, protect her, even after they find out the truth. Annie herself has no memory of her past, not of a family, friends or even her name. All she knows is that SOMETHING is following her and dangerous enough to need to escape from. She grows a little bit, interacting with Robin and stays with him because all he sees is a person needing help. She stays with him because not only does he keep her safe, but gives her an Identity as well! We grow up in a harsh world, striving to find our place in life, similar to both Annie and Tim Drake, so they choose paths to find out where they belong. At this time, Tim sees himself as Robin the Hero, while Annie finally starts shaping her identity; a child running from her abusive father, whom she fears, though gains the courage to return to the only place she remembers. Her place of Birth. In the chemical plant, both Annie and Robin learn that Annie was actually once as part of Clayface, who used the chemical plant to recover, creating Annie to be used as a lookout puppet. He didn't know how long or how far his control of his 'puppet' will go, forcing him to go after her using his shapeshifting abilities, having no idea that his 'puppet' had gain sentience, and was LEARNING. Learning the truth, Annie believes that she doesn't have worth as an individual, because she was once a part of Clayface. Robin sees differently, as not only does she walk and talk, but has EMOTIONS and can THINK for herself! Threatening Robin's life, Annie makes the decision on her own to save her only friend, by sacrificing her very existance, similar to the way Will's Altermere did in the W.I.T.C.H. tv series; all Annie wanted was to live, and we see her suffer in agony as she's reabsorbed into Clayface. In pain, Robin demands Clayface to 'bring HER back', but even with all his power, Clayface 'can't' because not even he could create another living personality, same way a parent gives their child life, but cannot create their humanity. When I look at the TAS Clayface, I can see a selfish and narcissistic man who believed his career was over when he got in that accident, desperate enough to use DANGEROUS CHEMICALS to mess with his DNA because he believes his appearance was the only thing alliwing him to keep his job. He's had great people who try to help him, and potentially has a love interest in a woman who uses her SAVINGS to create a lab to try and make him human again! He literally pushes them away because his appearance is all he cares about, not realizing the amazing people he's got around him. Even Batman was willing to use his resources as Bruce Wayne to help him! I believe the actor's mind was already damaged before he became Clayface, which only made it worse. Clayface only sees himself, whereas Robin (and the audience) sees Annie as a person. In conclusion, I believe that Annie actually had a soul when she separated from Clayface, as every living being has one. Though she lived a short, fearful life, she lived and died for her friend. Like Robin, I fully believe Annie was alive.

[@SerumLake]

I feel similarly.

[@frogmouth2]

Headcanon rant

[@inwit594]

@@frogmouth2 Still more than you had to say. Which was comparatively nothing, so, y'know, there you go.

[@frogmouth2]

@@inwit594 salt

[@Ash_Rein]

I’m sure you’re gonna be thinking about any whenever you eat a piece of chicken or bite into a cheeseburger. I’m sure you’re gonna be thinking about life and it’s value when you decide to put somebody down because you believe they’re wrong. I’m sure this really taught you something and you walk around believing that all life is sacred. Especially when you buy a pair of shoes that are made of leather.

[@The_Phantasm]

This episode really made me love this version of Tim Drake. He was really great and Mathew Valencia really gave an amazing perfomance that always made his stand out.

[@SerumLake]

Yes, Matt Valencia did very well. Special shout out to Francesca Marie Smith for her portrayal of Annie. For years I knew I recognised her voice from somewhere, but couldn’t place it. Then I realised that she had played Helga in Hey Arnold.

[@zemox2534]

​@@SerumLake She was Helga? I didn't recognise her at first.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

​@@zemox2534Unrecognizability can make for really good voice acting. Even the otherwise familiar Steve Blum did well as Leeron and the Laughing Man from Gurren Lagaan and Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex respectively.

[@GravesRWFiA]

Annie had a short life, but it was a life. she had the most precious gift-free will. and she chose to use it to save another.

[@andersonviana245]

This episode breaks me to this day... I even wonder if there is any story (or one that may emerge in the future) that she returns to because she is a character who had a huge impact in a short period of time.

[@Xehanort10]

Annie being reabsorbed into Clayface was one of many horrible things to happen to DCAU Tim Drake.

[@foldabotZ]

Yeah, Tim has not had a very good life in the DCAU.

[@andersonviana245]

and for the viewer too

[@patrikbengtsson3883]

Do you wish Annie emerged from one of the scattered fragments of Clayface? That would make her an analogue for the original Poison Ivy, since the Revamped version is a plant clone immune to pesticide.

[@AdamSlander888]

Annie’s death really got me when I first watched it and it still kinda does, I was very sympathetic to her and I was hoping in someway robin would save her. But I knew deep down that he couldn’t no matter how hard he tried Annie would never be able to be saved, and that really shows how being a superhero really is, sometimes there is no happy ending and sometimes you can’t save everyone, it shows the darker side of being a superhero and it really made me sad as a kid and even now I still dread watching this episode again and shed a singular tear

[@andersonviana245]

Me too, this episode takes a very heavy toll on conveying this message and the way it happened is the culmination of the trauma

[@nicksmyth4050]

I remember as a kid I read the “Batman: Lil’ Gotham” kids comics, and in one issue where it’s “Take Your Daughter To Work Day”, in a the background you can see Clayface driving on the highway with Annie in the backseat. As an 11 year old it made me kinda sad knowing that (as far as I knew), Annie could only survive in other comics, never the story she was made in

[@michaelandreipalon359]

That's Multiverse Theory for you.

[@dannysummers4591]

since Clayface usually shape shifts into people hes seen, I wonder if Annie was a real person out there

[@baronbeat2210]

Probably. Maybe she was based on a former classmate from his childhood or a child actor from his acting career.

[@changvasejarik62]

Considering the savage time showed annie as real, I wonder if Hagen had a daughter or niece?

[@randomericthings7506]

Matt Hagen isn’t getting ‘Father of the Year’ award anytime soon.

[@SerumLake]

That made me chuckle!

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Yeah, would just give that to Green Arrow.

[@patrikbengtsson3883]

​@@michaelandreipalon359 For having a Like Brother And Sister relationship with Supergirl?

[@michaelandreipalon359]

@@patrikbengtsson3883 And being quite a good companion to Black Canary.

[@SuperCosmicMutantSquid]

It's been YEARS since i saw this episode but the thing I ALWAYS carried from it is how Tim doesn't hesitate listing MURDER as one of Clayface's crimes. Annie wasn't just a clone to him nor did they use the twist of Annie being 'evik the whole time' to discourage Robin in the end. It's the opposite of what TTs would later do with Terra and ger betrayal but to the credit of that, it led to an arc for the characters but it still used the whole 'she was evil the whole time' card. I mean..... thinking about it, this could be considered the Terra arc in one episode, right down to the final sacrifice but again lacking the part where Annie is evil but 'rethinks' before her redemption.

[@SerumLake]

I had never noticed the similarities with Terra before. Thanks for sharing that!

[@cry0689]

Even down to Ron Perlman voicing both villains!

[@michaelandreipalon359]

​@@cry0689Ron Perlman sure knows how to play manipulators and abusers.

[@gregorykeithmorris3970]

You hit the nail on the head with this episode, my good man. Amazing how the writers and Ron Perlman made their Clayface go from heartbreakingly sympathetic to disgustingly unnerving. Talk about a character with nuance.

[@ma3mc3mu-X]

That song the hardest part about being a hero. You can't _always_ save everyone you love.

[@theyakkoman]

While many people cite Mad Love, Over the Edge or Tales of the Dark Knight as their favourite season 3 episode, Growing Pains will always be my favourite one. It is such a great, both tragic and sweet, story that I can't help but love.

[@SerumLake]

Same here!

[@Babygirls9301999]

I felt sorry for annie she gave her life to save her friend but that is the most heartbreaking thing I have ever seen I wish she was still there.

[@andersonviana245]

i wish this too😢😢

[@stpat7614]

For most of human history, parental abuse didn't exist as a concept. "I brought you into this world, and I'll take you out." When the episode ends, Clayface has literally done this, yet is not charged with murder.

[@if7723]

I think legally you would struggle with a murder charge in this instance since you can't even confirm she is a human. And that's pretty sad now that I devoted brainspace to "well how would this little girl who suffers massively even be treated by the legal system"

[@tfordham13]

Why should he? She was just clay that is apart of him

[@if7723]

@@tfordham13 And sentient.

[@tfordham13]

@if7723 and? Still just mud she never existed she doesn't have any rights

[@joshuarainwater8631]

A girl resembling Annie did show up playfully chasing Tim Drake through Rebel Batman's base in part 1 of Savage Times from the first Season of Justice League, implying she did survive as a separate person in the altered timeline

[@SerumLake]

I think she was intended to be Cassandra Cane, but I’ll have to double check that.

[@zeoinfinitneospace2134]

Oh a little fun fact for Annie is that she's actually the voice of Helga from Hey Arnold

[@thehandsomeone8369]

This episode was traumatizing to watch as a kid.

[@Fyre19]

ANNIE ARE YOU OK ARE YOU OK ANNIE!

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Struck by a smooth criminal?

[@neoinfinity5204]

It been almost two decades since I watched the series and it’s STILL HURTS to think about this minor character along my adult analysis of poison ivy and Harley twisted fate.

[@SerumLake]

The scene where she's consumed still brings a single, solitary tear to my eye every time I watch it.

[@tinseltina]

i only saw this episode once as a kid and i wasn't fully aware of what was going on because of how young i was but i remember being absolutely horrified during annie's reabsorbtion scene. absolutely haunting but in a way that made me love sad stories. they stick with me longer and really made me think long and hard about them.

[@MrJamesDuffy]

I always saw the absorption of Annie back into Clayface as an homage to Tetsuo killing Kaori in Akira.

[@SerumLake]

If I remember rightly some of the people from TMS worked on Akira as well - I think Bruce Timm said that on the Batman Beyond Return of the Joker audio commentary? So I think you’re right.

[@Chadius]

@@SerumLake 0:57 "Dad's" face always reminded me of 90s anime. Just that physically superior tough guy looking down at a non-threat and smiling.

[@ashleightompkins3200]

Funnily enough, the stellar animation in Feet of Clay where Matt Hagen runs through his roles was done by the same people who animated Akira. No wonder it was so smooth. It’s almost serendipitous.

[@TheAaronChand]

​@SerumLake I heard this Episode Growing Pains was written for Batman The Animated Series. So Dick Grayson the 1st Robin would have been in it the idea was the Charter of Annie was suposed to be a fellow college student of Dick but the Idea was thrown away. So when they did The New Batman Adventures in 1998. Robert Goodman the Writer who worte the Story for Batman The Animated Series for Dick Grayson. Remembered the story. And updated it with Tim Drake in mind. This is such a fantastic Episode. The Animation has a lot Of Japanese Animie or Akira vibes or look to it. Since it was A Japanese Animation Company TMS who did the Animation. I really enjoyed seeing Clay face agian and the explanation of how he survived the events of the Episode Mudslide. And Tim Drake reaction to the whole crimstances. And dealing with Annie and the aftermath of her re absorption back into Clayface.

[@Cowboycomando54]

Even her character design more resembles that of late late 80's/ early 90's anime.

[@provalone]

This, this was my favorite episode I never want to see again. More than two decades later that last half the episode lived rent free in my head.

[@andersonviana245]

Me too, and even for my part I went through a personal experience, in which I lost a very close person to Covid and, despite having met her for almost 3 months, it felt like we had known each other for years and, unfortunately, this episode it fit very well into this😢😢

[@geladaas9879]

Clayface is (to me) the coolest Batman villain by far. The last two episodes they did with him in particular are such a mind-fuck, so harrowing, so cruel, so beautiful.

[@SerumLake]

Yeah, Clayface is definitely the most interesting villain! He's not my favourite, but he's the one I seem to have the most to say about

[@gablit-gt8kk]

Clayface survived so he's not dead

[@LegoReader12345hello]

@@gablit-gt8kkuntil justice league where is killed by fireworks

[@andersonviana245]

I also like the character, but in this episode he left me very traumatized, not to mention pissed off.

[@geladaas9879]

@@andersonviana245 people have a hard time wrapping their head around the fact the girl IS Clayface.

[@aliceyagami8260]

This scene where she is absorbed again by clayface is still disturbing and leaves me with enormous discomfort to this day. It's the kind of trauma you have as a child that you never really forget, mainly because I'm still sad that annie literally dies in that scene.

[@TheBlackSaint]

I have unofficially placed Holiday Knights last in my viewing order, as well! I like “here’s to survival” as a fitting last moment for the series.

[@SerumLake]

Yeah, that would’ve been a much better ending!

[@krvgames9258]

I’ve seen fanart and a few Fanfics on BTAS/TNBA where Annie actually isn’t absorbed back into Clayface, and they are MUCH happier. There is a BTAS/TNBA Fanfic called Annie Come Home where the description says that she wasn’t fully absorbed by Clayface and that she was merely being suppressed, and the first chapter has her being un-suppressed and getting to live as her own person again. But I think it’s a missed opportunity for Annie to join the Bat Family to show another side of Matt Hagen/Clayface, and shows that he still has some good inside of him. But it was not meant to be.

[@aldiascholarofthefirstsin1051]

Link those up to me, I wanna read 'em.

[@krvgames9258]

@@aldiascholarofthefirstsin1051 Just type in Annie Come Home Fanfic on Google and you’ll find it.

[@krvgames9258]

@@aldiascholarofthefirstsin1051 If you want to read it, just type in Annie Come Home Batman Fanfic on Google, and it will be the first entry.

[@discordlexia2429]

See, my read on this is that Annie is reabsorbed, rather than explicitly killed. For all intents and purposes, Annie - the personality - is gone. But, as a "Sentient glob of protoplasm", she doesn't stop existing. Rather, she is homogenized with Clayface as a whole. That exact Annie isn't coming back, but "Annie" still exists inside Clayface and could theoretically be exiled. Since Clayface's "self" seems to be spread throughout his body, that means that "Annie" is unlikely to be totally erased. She just can't be her own self anymore. But in theory, she could be exiled out, spat back out, if Clayface had enough of an incentive. It's also possible the Annie personality was developed enough that she could front. Wouldn't it be interesting to see Annie front over Clayface because she wants to see Robin again?

[@lightyearpig12]

Annie: Same trauma? Ace: Same trauma.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Tamara Caulder: "Seems I lucked out."

[@andersonviana245]

another character who didn't deserve that ending, poor thing😢😢

[@VALonYouTube]

Some networks outside the U.S. that broadcast TNBA back in the late '90s didn't air Holiday Knights as the show's first episode. They waited until Christmas season to do so, which in retrospective makes so much more sense.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Strange how I don't hear about this on any wikis or Wikipedia.

[@VALonYouTube]

@@michaelandreipalon359 I know that because I witnessed it myself.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

@@VALonKZbin Good to know. Anyways, do you have the exact month, day, and year of said release? I actually got a paper checklist of the DCAU that may need additional info.

[@VALonYouTube]

@@michaelandreipalon359 Great point. I'll have to browse my notes, then.

[@ezequielnavon9592]

2:06 I know this has nothing to with the episode but that is a great shot

[@SerumLake]

A great shot from a great episode!

[@callumcrane241]

Wait...... what of Annie was an actual character?! And really was Clayface's kid, from before he became a villain? Just inagine how much more of an impact the episode would have had if it was like that!?

[@lawvere]

Annie may have been a part of Clayface but she was nothing like Matt Hagen. Hagen would have never made a sacrifice like Annie did to save Robin. She was kind, timid, considerate, everything Matt wasn't. This is why I think she was her own individual as opposed to just a separation Clayface.

[@RikouHogashi]

This also came to mind when I recall the JLU Batman and Ace Swing Set scene. This is also just as tragic just not as remembered sadly seriously POOR TIM and SCREW YOU CLAYFACE! Not to mention how very Cute Annie was breaks my heart on so many levels not to mention her Art was never better in any other interpretation thus far than in TNBA.

[@RealKame]

One of my favorite episodes is a kid I love how you broke it down you deserve more❤

[@SerumLake]

Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to comment!

[@RealKame]

@@SerumLake of course I thought she was a cool character and I wish you the best I think I'll drop a sub

[@dappercuttlefish9557]

The read of Annie as a variant of Lady Clay/Sondra is an interesting one. I can see how Sondra's search for an identity might have been an influence, but Annie actually reminds me more of her son Cassius? Sondra *chose* to transform, and while she's searching for an identity, she has no desire to go back to being her old self. Gotham City Monsters even has her sending out fragments of herself to go experiment with different lives - that was written quite a while after Growing Pains, but Sondra strikes me as the transgender adult who's having a great time being shaped like a shirtless angel even if she isn't quite settled to Annie's trans kid trying to figure out who she wants to be. Also, I'm still holding out for a Katherine and Cass moment at some point. Maps was just in Batgirls, I can lie to myself about it being possible. They could have a bonding experience over being created as weapons, even.

[@SerumLake]

Yeah, I suppose Cassius could’ve been some inspiration, given that he was the child of two Clayfaces. I guess the issue is that they never really did anything with him, aside from Clay Thing (which was a piece of Cassius that wandered off and started causing havoc!) One thing I didn’t mention in the video is that Paul Dini originally intended this story to be a BTAS episode where Dick Grayson would meet a mysterious amnesiac woman at university, and she’d turn out to be a piece of Clayface. The issue was that Clayface didn’t have that power during BTAS! I’m glad he kept that story in his back pocket and they were able to use it later.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

​@@SerumLakeRight, you should do DCAU plotlines that were only used later than originally planned, like the set-up for "Epilogue" once planned as a second Batman Beyond movie.

[@tylerensminger]

One of my favorites of the new batman adventures. Wish Robin could have have had a little more relationship building with some other female characters but we got a really touching story in this episode

[@mayozilla]

Annie is a real human and real hearthero, annie come back one day.

[@SerumLake]

She’s deaaaaaaaad! 😭

[@mayozilla]

@@SerumLake not for me ,robin and fans.

[@mayozilla]

@@SerumLake And I'm doing a mini-comic of, if Annie had survived

[@Fernando5455Jr]

@@SerumLake only uncle Ben stays truly dead

[@andersonviana245]

@@mayozilla do it, just do it

[@1000jjwalker]

the ambiguity of it all is perhaps the most distressing part of this episode. Its hard to tell whats what in.

[@danielmontero8200]

5:21 After years of watching Batman Beyond, I never noticed this nod to Annie. It's not her obviously, but it's a reference to her design.

[@alanabyss9246]

Annie deserved so much better

[@Cowboycomando54]

The end of this episode reminds me a lot of the scene near the end of Akira where Tetsuo looses control and his body grows uncontrollably. His flesh envelops his girlfriend Kaori, crushing and absorbing her. Even Annie's character design more closely resembles that of characters from late 80's/ early 90's anime as appose to the style used in the show.

[@thenerdbeast7375]

This episode to this day fucked me up more than any other

[@SerumLake]

It brings a tear to my eye every time I watch it.

[@andersonviana245]

me too😭😭

[@dudemetslagroom8065]

I watched this 20+ years ago and i still don't dare to rewatch it. Annie was a real girl in any and all ways that mattered. And her existence got snuffed out as if it she didn't matter. Only Robbin would ever acknowledge her existence. Clayface sure wouldn't. Despite the fact that he essentially created himself a daughter, he didn't care and just got rid of his own child. A girl that simply wanted to exist. This one episode turned Clayface from a tragic victim whom had suffered a horrible fate. A broken man who couldn't even define himself as human anymore. Into the worst kind of monster, the kind that shouldn't exist but sadly enough does.

[@andersonviana245]

This episode breaks me to this day... I even wonder if there is any story (or one that may emerge in the future) that she returns to because she is a character who had a huge impact in a short period of time.😢😢😭

[@GhostPlanetFilms]

Press F to pay respects for Annie.

[@Kermilesa2715]

F

[@AlriikRidesAgain]

F

[@andersonviana245]

F😭

[@giovanniandangelmendez8043]

F

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Can't. Advanced Warfare is not a great game, even in CoD annals. Still, I sympathize.

[@animeknight8958]

This episode made me cry on the inside

[@andersonviana245]

me too😢😢

[@rc59191]

This episode broke me as a kid nothing else made me so depressed until Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy 10 came into my life lol.

[@jamesthomas5109]

Shame Annie wasn't taken into the Batman family, or the justice league. 5:26 Maybe she did, would be nice if she could return to the franchise.

[@Evilriku13]

Is it just me or does Annie has some anime vibe to it, along the lines of Chihiro from Spirited Away and having some Akira vibe to her too?

[@SerumLake]

Good eye! Growing Pains is a very interesting episode because it was handed over to TMS to produce entirely - most of the time the US studio would do the storyboards and the layouts, then send them over to the studios in Japan or Korea to animate them. TMS had a long history of working on Batman, but they're also the animation studio that produced Akira. However, they were swamped with work at the time, so they outsourced most of the production for Growing Paints to Studio Ghibli. There's a really cool video about it here kzbin.info/www/bejne/d2i1pJ-jmN6MpNEsi=7NkbCE5T0_SWjEyQ

[@foldabotZ]

Most certainly. In the close up shot of her face just before she jumps into Clayface, you can see how visually different she actually is from everyone else. She’s still in the same artstyle as the rest of the characters but she stands out, like she was deliberately designed as a Studio Ghibli character in artstyle of TNBA.

[@gundanout11]

She also look like Hotaru Tomoe Sailor Saturn from Sailor Moon.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Strange how TMS' work in the DCAU is quite well done, while their work in, say, Spider-Man: The Animated Series doesn't feel the same. Secondary team used for the latter, perhaps?

[@michaelandreipalon359]

​@@gundanout11Oh, yes, their hairstyle and woobieness does make them similar.

[@MichaelSunny]

One of my all time favorite characters and episodes! I was like 8 when I first saw this episode, and it broke me! I just felt so sad for Robin! Rewatching it when I am older, still makes me sad but I still enjoy it!

[@JanetStarChild]

To me, Annie is one of, if not, the most tragic character in the Batman mythos.

[@NatorGreen7000]

I like how you have that yellow line in your thumbnails. I used a green line for a while but I switched to a blue line because it occurred to me that some people can't see the color green.

[@thegreatscribbles960]

Don't you hate it when your girl is actually a middle age old man

[@demiurgusgodofform8589]

I actually forgot about this episode of Batman: The Animated Series until I had a fragmented dream about it several weeks ago. The only difference was Annie fought Clayface alongside Robin with her own shapeshifting powers up until Clayface starts degenerating, at which point Robin pulls some Batman-level "I have partially planned for everything" shenanigans, scoops some of Clayface's body into a tube, at which point it's revealed that Clayface isn't just trying to reclaim a wayward part of himself, but in seperating from Clayface, Annie took some part of him that was keeping him stable, and the longer he goes without fusing back together with her, the closer he gets to full-on genetic collapse, and subsequent death as his body literally falls apart at the genetic level. Annie, having heard all this, as well as reclaimed more memories showing that she was actually Clayface's deceased daughter, who died shortly before his transformation into Clayface in a car accident. Clayface, after a scientist examined his body and explained how his powers work and what he might be able to do, dug up his dead daughter's corpse and pseudo-reanimated by intergrating what remained of her body with his body, and seperating her from him. Annie, realizing that A) she's technically the ghost of a girl who already died, and B) is killing the father that "birthed" her just by existing, chooses to fuse with Clayface, much to Robin's dismay. Robin starts wailing on Clayface, who kinda just stands there and takes it as it begins to rain, until Clayface half-hugs Robin as he cries into his chest, saying that he's glad Annie met someone who cared so much for his "little girl," and while she may be gone for now, that doesn't mean she'll be gone forever, and that he'll never stop trying to bring her back. The ending, however, is very much the same, with Clayface going to jail, Batman showing up and hearing about all this after the fact, and Robin going off to deal with the sadness (and heartbreak?). Also, I am fully aware that this dream was wild af and made next to no sense. Dreams do be like that.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

...This better get adapted.

[@Ahturos]

Yepp I remember and it was so darn sad. But excellent work. I love when cartoons could be this, it was a small story mostly just Robin only Batman towards the end.

[@SerumLake]

I’ll never forget the ending: Cop: “so we’ve booked him on the robberies, anything else?” Robin: “Yeah, murder…” Hits me right in the feels every single time.

[@scarease1]

The Innocent the part of him that he lost .what he could have been without abuse and such .

[@SerumLake]

I do like this theory.

[@mrefromninjago7665]

The Batman series does have its sad moments.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Won't lie, I think even the weakest eps of TNBA, "Love Is A Croc" and "Cult of the Cat", are still worth watching and not worth a skip. No "Countdowns" and "Hoop Squads" around, folks. 1:07: After the Little Orphan Annie, to anyone somehow not knowledgeable to that tale. 1:36: This sentiment from Robin seemingly got comfortably echoed by Hawkgirl in JL's "Legends", after the Justice Guild sacrificed themselves despite being artificial mind constructs. 2:08: Shadowed forehead and eyes. Now that's one of my favorite anime animation methods, besides flash steps and facial/eye close-ups that don't show off mouth and cheek movement. 2:43: Always with this piece of sakuga. 2:54: To this day, I still painfully associate that horribly pained look as not unlike a young girl horrendously losing her virginity by way of r*pe. With "Holiday Knights" in mind, it's a... merciful thing Clayface encountered Batgirl there, not Robin. 4:07: As an aside, stuff like Made in Abyss, Haibane Renmei, and Watership Down (both the book and animated film) may be suitable for you. 4:32: She noticeably has that anime girl aesthetic surrounding her too. Contemporary Japanese animation like Memories and Dirty Pair can easily make her design fit in with the detailed characters there. 5:32: Bastard thought second trick's the charm, eh? Well, sorry not sorry, Clayface! 6:36: We'll courageously wait. Kudos for that Harley Quinn tie-in and Gotham Academy for their different yet neat takes on the character.

[@joered8578]

One the earliest episodes I ever saw. And one that made me love the characters or Robin and Tim Drake.

[@SerumLake]

What a great way to be introduced to the show

[@Xeorboom]

this really does pose an interesting plot point, Clayface is capable of creating life that has no connection to him or his evil ways... wait, what if Clayface makes other clay creations similar to Annie to explain his plans to in order to hear someone else's opinions on them

[@aldiascholarofthefirstsin1051]

But they would have no opinion, the only other being they know is him, unless he unleashed them on the world to get experience on purpose.

[@Johnlindsey289]

This episode broke my heart as a teen

[@adawnicusautocon]

I have always loved Annie the moment she debuted and to me, she has ALWAYS been real! And in a way, children are part of their parents, so I say she was Clayface's daughter and not just some object that he could use. And I can say the fandom have definitely taken a liking to her. I have seen many art peices as a What If scenario for her.

[@puterboy2]

If this was Jason instead of Tim, the events of this episode would have been another footnote into his path to becoming the Red Hood.

[@iceluvndiva21]

The name Annie means graceful one and prayer. It's actually very fitting given she needs help in finding the truth and a friend. Her prayer is answered multiple times by Tim. As for grace? Well her ability to accept both the horror and good of her life with outstanding grace is no small feat.

[@jackthegreek6092]

Annie ALSO also appeared in a Justide League episode The Savage time. She is running with Robin while Dick and Barabara are kissing.

[@camerondodge2070]

Considering how many odd nods there are to TV characters like Egghead in Gotham Academy, there's not doubt in my mind that Katherine was meant to be a reference, as well as her own thing (side note, Gotham Academy is incredible, and deserves more love from readers).

[@milahancock6405]

6:53 Omg is that a Greatest Showman inspired cover??

[@ShiningTaiga]

God that real sidekicks if Gotham artstyle looks like clay face absorbing Annie

[@jboy667]

she cameoed in lit Gatham in a car smile with clay face on a road trip implying this version of Annie is a happy child who's single father loves and cares for her.

[@zeoinfinitneospace2134]

To be honest when I watch this episode. I think Tim Drake deserve to have a relationship something that he would have never have a girlfriend. When Annie kiss Tim Drake on the cheek he finally realize he understand what love is but now tim Drake sad after Annie has to save Robin from clay face and she sacrificed herself that is one of the most saddest moments for Tim Drake it's just saddens me. that tim been through a lot he lost his love Annie and he was kidnapped by The Joker and turn into as a mini version of him Joker and he'll never wear a robin suit again and he move on from his life

[@MegaManDBZX]

One thing I’ve always wished is that Annie would become separate from Clayface and become a member of the Titans.

[@discordlexia2429]

I want to see her internally inside Clayface continue to be her own personality. And, like, Clayface exiles her, but after a traumatic experience she gets un-exiled and is able to front, and Annie takes over as the dominant personality - like with Two Face. I wanna see her pursue Robin, but have him be unsure if she's real or not, and the conflict of the episode is that Annie has taken on Clayface's criminal record along with his body, and that there's the constant risk of her getting ousted again.

[@andersonviana245]

YES!!! I LIKED THIS IDEA SO MUCH!!!

[@themeerofkats8908]

@@discordlexia2429 Reminds me of Maijin Buu

[@andersonviana245]

Having watched the episode after many years, I decided I could make an analysis of how not only was Annie a towering icon of sacrifice, but of a character who, in the eyes of many, was wasted (for arguably obvious reasons) as one of the characters that could be one of the most evolved and, if not, one of the most powerful members of the bat family. looking closely, IF Annie's case was successfully resolved in this episode or she returns in some series or comic book as a member welcomed by Batman and Robin (in this case Tim Drake), her abilities as a meta-human in conjunction with the abilities and Wayne's training and with the synthesis of knowing how and where to fight strategically, we would have in the series or in future projects one of the most powerful members than many villains and even members of the bat group. I can mention some works such as, for example, the series itself where Clayface fights whose, little by little, properties make him versatile and a potential threat and, being no different from Annie in question, being able to use such skills naturally. Other points beyond this can be found in other animations such as Batman Unlimited Monster Mayhem from 2015, where he does the same tactics, however, having a much wider range of proficiencies and capabilities, and can even change his elemental structure to be a potential threat ( exploring the character at one point, which, for Annie, would be another decoy in her skills). Another more assertive work in hand-to-hand combat and exploring body transmutation involves another character with similar concepts, this being Inque, from Batman Beyond, where the villain also uses more creative and surprising means to be a risk against Terry McGinnis, putting yet another degree of dangerousness that, if Annie were on a scale to use such concepts, would be a degree higher in many aspects of fighting. In short, Annie has a captivating aura and, without discarding the side where she sacrifices herself for Robin, showing a unique atruism to show her good side, she hiddenly shows colossal potential so that, if she returns and is one of the adopted from Wayne, she would have an absurd margin of having a potential for immersion and narrative challenges that would easily overcome many obstacles and, from this perspective, one of the possible heroines (or characters of another alignment) with more capabilities within the Batman universe. Not anymore, I hope she returns one day for this to happen, until then, I will at least wait to see how events unfold and wait so that, who knows, some screenwriter or interested parties can unearth this character (as many were, in the case of comics), so that she has her chance to gain space and bring more scenes to her story.

[@HamzaZaBrick]

I find it more distribuing on WHY would clayface clone himself as a young girl? 🤨

[@flying_Night_slasher]

I think it's because he wouldn't have to use too much of his clay while an adult would probably require a lot more and it would affect clayface more and if you think about deception people are more likely to sympathize with a child than an adult; do you see people ask a lost adult if they're ok a lot compared to a child but I don't know if we're going with that route but that's one use case scenario I can think of.

[@aldiascholarofthefirstsin1051]

@@flying_Night_slasher Even more so if that child is a girl, 'cause people perceive little girls as weaker and tend to feel a great sense of protection toward them.

[@scarease1]

Clayface likely she is a more innocent part of him .

[@athanasiossoulakakis7893]

Her design looks very anime-ish to me. This episode was good but I prefer the Baby Doll one better.

[@SerumLake]

Fun fact, this episode was given to the Japanese animation studio TMS to work on. Usually they would get the basic layout and storyboards from the Warner Bros team in the US, but this time they were given free reign. In order to keep up with the tough schedule they contracted Studio Ghibli to do most of the work, making Annie a Ghibli Princess!

[@bachilles3285]

3:51-4:07 Nothing to do with the video, but from what I've seen from J's Reviews' video on The New Batman Adventures, the point of TNBA narratively is to focus on how Gotham City has evolved since BTAS and the mystery revolving around the status quo changes to the Bat Family, with Holiday Knights serving set up questions that would be answered in later episodes, including, but not limited to: "Who's this new younger Robin?" (Answered in Holiday Knights, and expanded upon in Sins of the Father) "What happened to Dick Grayson?" (Teased across multiple episodes, answered in Old Wounds) "How did Clayface survive the events of Mudslide?" (Answered in Growing Pains) "How did Batgirl become a main member of the Bat Family?" (Also answered in Old Wounds) "Does Jim Gordon know Bruce Wayne is Batman in this continuity?" (That last one I just pulled out of my ass, because the episode ends with them Jim drinking coffee with Batman to celebrate the New Year while he's wearing the Batsuit, but Over the Edge more or less implies that he does) And so forth. *I was originally gonna put "How does Mr. Freeze come back after the events of Deep Freeze," but I reconsidered because he doesn't appear in TNBA until Cold Comfort, and the question in question isn't even answered in TNBA, it's answered in Batman & Mr. Freeze: Sub-Zero (which, on that note, J's Reviews considers to be the weakest entry in the DCAU, which I kinda get with the poor attempts at mixing CG with traditional animation, Barbara being contrived into the movie's story to bring all the main characters together, some moments of padding, and so forth).*

[@Elfenlied8675309]

Funnily enough most people don't seem to think the Subzero movie is canon, including Bruce Timm who has said numerous times that he considers it a non canon what if story. Mostly because he didn't work on it. Mr. Freeze returning doesn't really make sense if Subzero isn't considered canon though.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

I still treat SubZero and "Cold Comfort" as canon, no matter how flawed they are. They're glued as part of canon, so there's nothing I can do. The Zeta Project (plus Batman Beyond's "Countdown") and Static Shock's "Hoop Squad", on the other hand...

[@The_Phantasm]

Sorry I couldn't be here for the live chat. I was out seeing Spider-Man Across the Spider-Verse. That movie is a pure masterpiece.

[@SerumLake]

I went to see it today too and thought it was excellent. Can you imagine if Warner Bros made a Batman Beyond animated film in a similar art style? I think I would expire on the spot.

[@The_Phantasm]

@@SerumLake I can but I they've made so many creative mistakes in the past that it's hard to get excited for something like that. They would need to get someone who is as passionate for the characters and lore as Phil Lord and Chris Miller are for Spider-Man.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Another great movie sequel, that. Shame about the animators' complaints unduly delaying it for a year more or so, though, plus certain nitpicks like having a mean-spirited Ben O'Reilly (The Animated Series did him better), no promised Supaidaman (Beyond better compensate), and the overmemeifcation of Canon Events (face it, there are inevitable universes out there with no Canon Events around... that's how the Multiverse invariably works).

[@safalekel]

She looks like she was made by studio gible.

[@SerumLake]

She was. TMS outsourced most of the work to Ghibli for this episode.

[@safalekel]

@@SerumLake thank you

[@SerumLake]

No, thank you. You clearly have a good eye for Ghibli’s work.

[@safalekel]

@@SerumLake it’s easy to see it looks like ghibli.

[@kaior1]

it's tragic because she was her own person in the end

[@zemox2534]

I can't watch growing pains. It is just too tragic even by the standards of the series. I like to hear your thoughts on the spinn comics focused on Clayface. If considered canon, it is rather uncomfortable to read them, especially when you think about Growing pains. Side note: I hate the Harley Quinn cartoon. It is just another poorly developed adult cartoon with dc characters.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

For me, an episode I rather not watch anymore is Buffy the Vampire Slayer's "Seeing Red", up to the point that certain couples like Bubbline and Lumity surviving is always a relief to me. Shame otherwise good stuff like The 100 didn't get the memo though. To each to everyone's own. Time will tell if the show will, however, age surprisingly well, as we've seen with Teen Titans, The Batman 2004, Batman: The Brave and the Bold, and even Beware the Batman.

[@srstriker6420]

Well you forgot to mention the Justice league episode Savage Times where she is part of the resistance that Robocop Batman has assembled, that giant blonde guy that was Clayface reminds me of Hun from the 2003 TMNT series and speaking of when Clayface loses his toes reminds me of that episode Insane in the Membrane where Baxter Stockman loses a finger and I’m curious on those other Clayfaces and this is what I thinking if Clayface was in Batman Beyond.

[@SerumLake]

I didn’t actually notice her in Savage Time, so I’ll have to keep an eye out for her next time I watch it. One thing I decided not to include is Ms Clay from the DC Animated Movie Universe tie-in comics, but that’s only because I haven’t read them!

[@srstriker6420]

@@SerumLake I forgot about the episode It’s never too late and Old Wounds on why Dick started to hate Bruce

[@davidpalillero29]

That actually Cassandra Cain according to the writers

[@TransPandaArt]

If you so permit me, I actually have a third perspective I'd like to present on the matter of Annie that not many many consider to think about. This... is going to be a bit of a long comment. Forgive me, I genuinely didn't plan to make this an essay. To first set the stage: I am diagnosed with OSDD 1B, this is a psychological condition that is a "lesser" variant of D.I.D. As a result, "we" have all the conditions of "multiple personality disorder" without the memory loss. At the time I am, in total, 13 people. The condition is formed due to a younger brain compartmentalizing parts of the person, and those "broken off" parts form and grow from those chunks into their own people. It's what happened with other characters such as Two-Face or The Ventriloquist. You can probably see where we're going with this. Annie's creation involved Clayface breaking off part of himself and forming her own identity/personality from there. Matt Hagen/Clayface is essentially a giant walking sludge brain. In a sense... he accidentally compartmentalized his own mind, bypassing the usual requirement of child trauma splitting it because he can literally break his body apart. The philosophical questions of "Is Annie Matt Hagen?", "Is Annie Clayface's daughter?", "Is Annie really alive?", "Is Annie real?", etc. don't really take into account the possible answer: All of the Above. In D.I.D. spaces, there's a term known as a "Little Alter", this is an alter who's mind and personality reflect that of a child. Annie may be the accidentally created Little Alter of Matt Hagen. It's also not uncommon for an alter to be a different gender. We learned about Clayface's repression as a homosexual man in Hollywood through you, and we thank you so much about that because that flavors Annie's characters amazingly. Why wouldn't a man so deeply in the closet that he's constantly reaching for that "hypothetical perfect man" role, also feel the need to bury and repress an alter of a little girl? It's not normal, in society's eyes. In order to return to "being whole", he has to do this. He's not killing a kid in his eyes, because that kid doesn't, shouldn't exist. And, in a strange way... did he kill her? Ignore what Robin said about murder for a second and really... think about it. What objectively happened? Annie ran into Clayface and was absorbed into his body. For all intents and purposes, they fused together into one body. ...IS that inherently death? We never see Annie again, but Hagen is also a deeply closeted man. Again, remember what we said at the beginning, I'm a body made up of 13 people. Are they dead when they're not in charge of the body? No! They're more like Scarface's "playing possum". Which. Brings us to our final point we sorta have to mention when discussing Annie. ...We feel the Batman Animated Series is really bad at writing systems and plurality. We watched your video on Two-Face and whilst the actual visiting of a psychologist to learn about D.I.D. was very appreciated, it was almost certainly done at a time where the advised "treatment" was to integrate all alters together into one person. To this day, psychologists struggle to accept the reality that someone like me feels healthier as multiple people, and doesn't want to be one. This logic bled into BTAS, where it's natural extreme occurred: since the only "happy ending" for someone is to be a "singlet", most systems have alters that are overly negative and violent to justify them being destroyed (this is seen as the murder alter trope). Two-Face, The Ventriloquist, Robin/Joker... and yes. Annie/Matt also follow this logic. Two-Face's story ends miserably from getting a new alter. The Ventriloquist is happy once he "kills" Scarface. Robin gets a possession murder alter with Joker. You may think this is a very long unrelated tangent, but... look at who wrote "Growing Pains." Paul Dini and Robert Goodman. Robert Goodman wrote only 3 episodes of BTAS, one was this, and another was "Double Speak". The episode Ventriloquist "kills" Scarface as an alter, and is one of the few batman villains who gets a "happy ending", but only as a singlet. Paul Dini wrote many episodes, but he was the main screenplay writer of "Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker"... where the Joker personality possesses Tim Drake and needs to die. (He also helped write a Two Face episode "Second Chance" where Harvey's "worst enemy" is his alter) When discussing characters like Annie, we think it's vital to bring up potential unconscious biases or preconceived notions of creators to fully understand the nuance on display. We don't think these writers are actively shitty people, but the evidence seems to indicate that they greatly struggle understand someone living healthily like how I do. These are the two writers we actively consider the worst at handling plurality/systems in BTAS. And thus... we come back to the main message of the episode. "Sometimes there are no happy endings." We recognize that this is about unfair child death, but as a system... it's simply impossible to not see it flavored by our existence. The reason Annie dies the way she does, swallowed up whole by absorption from her original host, the reason it's automatically seen as a total death and compared to child murder is... Because Paul Dini and Robert Goodman didn't ever see sharing a body as a happy ending. Again we don't see them as shitty people. We're simply experienced with the qualities of our existence being used as a tragedy instead of our normal day to day, and the tropes are ingrained deep into media as a whole. Over this past week, we've come to care a lot about Clayface and Annie. Finding out more about them has shown us an interesting set of characters that could've been a lot more, had they been allowed to exist in spaces that let them be a gay man or a child alter. We doubt we'll ever get to see them reach a healthy coexistence besides our dreams, but then... maybe we'll keep dreaming. After all, I can get along with 12 others in one body, why can't Clayface and Annie eventually resolve their differences? We guess, the whole point of this comment was to say... just because something appears to have no happy endings, there might just be a possible happy ending still hidden somewhere in that muck you never considered before.

[@SerumLake]

Thank you for sharing your perspective. That’s a really fascinating idea you’ve brought up. I am reminded of Feat of Clay part 2 where Batman tries to talk Clayface down and he responds “there is no Hagen. There’s only me now… CLAYFACE!” clearly showing that he considers Clayface to be a separate identity (who he also claims is haunted by Matt Hagen, but that could’ve been part of his act) It’s a shame that I just finished editing my next video, because your experience is very relevant, and will doubtlessly provide food for thought, should you chose to comment on it. Thanks again!

[@TransPandaArt]

@@SerumLake Thank you for the kind response. Half the reason that comment is so long is because we felt the need to share our perspective, which is years of experience. We'd be happy to comment and give our thoughts on the matter of that new video to further share and clarify any information that might be useful to consider. And our experience dictated that Annie's episode/story of tragedy had a very distinct blind spot to how it could be happy. It reminds us of our experience with the Kingdom Hearts franchise, which takes a very black and white mentality to this topic as well. We've said that the opposite extreme of the "Possession/murder alter" trope is the "helpless alter in another's body" trope. We can clarify further if pressed, but the point is Annie elicits the later to us. It's why we don't consider the writers to be shitty, it's a blind spot that a very large portion of series also hold. (To put this into perspective, we once wrote 32,000 words of a story online about two people learning to share and be happy in one body and, a person commented: "I hope they can separate with their own bodies and memories intact." It is a... extremely ingrained idea in some people.) We are very, very used to qualities of our existence being used for tragedy, violation, and metaphor for death. And there is certainly a chance that Clayface could be an alter to Matt Hagen, considering his repression as a gay man may have started very early on. There's actually a phenomenon with OSDD systems specifically where, because of the lack of memory loss, they will not realize they're a system for years at a time. Just last year we helped a friend realize their plurality at 29 years old. Ourselves only realized at 21. So it's possible for Matt. Funnily enough, we have another plural friend who's wrote extensively about the DC universe, and they have even written Two-Face in a more contextually positive light on plurality. We can link it, though it is fanfiction if that's a worry. (Unfortunately, due to the deep seated portrayals of plurality in media, the only real spaces for mostly positive rep has been more underground/indie spaces. Though it is slowly leaking into more mainstream media)

[@SerumLake]

No, thank you. I look forward to hearing your thoughts about Friday's video. Please keep in mind that I had recorded and edited the video together before reading your comments, so feel free to challenge anything I say. I promise not to take it personally!

[@CalvinNoire]

@@TransPandaArt You seem like the most well spoken person(s) on the internet I've seen, well done. As a DC fan, I agree with your takes. Coincidentally, I'm writing a character who shares a body with another being, very insightful!

[@discordlexia2429]

I agree. We're always splitting off and reabsorbing identities. They're usually only sad to melt away because it means they can't look after me anymore. My last beloved sister, Ally, struggled quite a lot when she felt herself falling back into me, but it was only because she didn't want to leave me alone again - and at the last moment of her being separate she told me she'd let me consume her because she'll come back. Right now I'm doing badly because I'm back to being locked at the front and I hate myself and want to disappear forever, but I know they'll be back, my Ally, my Zoe, etc. So, Annie might seem gone, feel gone, until she pops back up unexpectedly. Like my Ally.

[@The_Phantasm]

Would you consider ever making a video about the cutscenes from the game or even the whole game of The Adventures of Batman and Robin which many consider to be the lost episode of the animated series?

[@SerumLake]

I think I could mention it in passing - I have two key takeaways from that game. 1. It’s a lot more violent than the cartoon was (Batman hacking the tree creature to death with an axe, shooting an anti-aircraft gun through Clayface) 2. It highlights how important Shirley Walker and co’s music was to the feel of the show. That tinny MIDI soundtrack really isn’t very good and it drags the whole thing down. The biggest obstacle I have is I’d have to copy someone else’s footage of the game because my copy is a graded copy, encased in plastic (and I don’t have a Sega CD!)

[@The_Phantasm]

@@SerumLake I remember when I was younger a cousin of mine having a copy and seeing it around the time I was finishing the animated series. It's why I wasn't surprised when Clayface showed up in TNBA. In terms of where it fits in the timeline I would probably say (I could be wrong) right after the episode Lock-Up because it's mentioned in the news that Poison Ivy returns to Gotham and she also appears in the game. That is supposing you watch the show in production order.

[@SerumLake]

@@The_Phantasm it’s tricky because the episodes jump around in the timeline - remember how Make Em Laugh had a reference to the rally for Commissioner Gordon in Shadow of the Bat part 1? I always thought of the game as taking place before BTAS became The Adventures of Batman and Robin, because the Riddler is still active in his original costume and Clayface is still alive. But - yeah, it’s impossible to say really.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

What about the Vengeance and Sin Tzu games?

[@alexlemonds2838]

A suggestion for your next video: Zatanna.

[@SerumLake]

I’d have to have a good hard think about what there is to say about her. Nothing immediately comes to mind right now.

[@The_Phantasm]

@@SerumLake You could talk about how much writer Paul Dini loves the character, so much so that he even married an actual magician.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Better include her tie-in appearances, even up to the Adventures in the DC Universe Annual.

[@randomericthings7506]

Batman sabotaging Clayface’s machine that would’ve turned him normal again in that one “Batman the Animated Series” episode would’ve made more sense if this episode took place before that.

[@SerumLake]

I’m going to do a video about this to explain why it happened.

[@DemitriVladMaximov]

You said that Clayface would never be whole without absorbing Annie, but when a parent gives part of themselves to their children, that is a part of them that never comes back. Annie is her own unique person and has a soul of her own, though her in the same sense that Data's daughter was female because it is only outward appearance with no functional reproductive organs. In the same vein, I also don't see trans as an aspect of Clayface or any of his creations because his humanity is completely gone and instead he has the cellular memory of the actor that is now gone forever. He doesn't have any human brain structure, he has no reproductive organs, and it is shown that he is capable of reproduction solely by the method of budding. However, he feels a connection to what he creates similar to the hive-mind of the symbiotes from Marvel. This makes Clayface a lot more like say Swamp Thing during that weird rebirth arch thing. This isn't at all like Mystique, who can appear as different similar massed humans but has a fully functional female reproductive system, or Zartan from G.I.Joe who can use his nanites to take on the face of other human beings but never changes his genetic code, but instead the chemicals that Clayface were exposed to and then was dissolved completely destroyed his human nature down to his DNA and replaced it with some sort of protein compound that has the look and texture of sediment and soil.

[@andersonviana245]

I hope she appears in this new Caped Crusader series, honestly🙏🙏

[@The_Phantasm]

Are there any DCAU characters that were recast whose replacement you prefer? For me I prefer Olivia Hussey as Talia al Ghūl, Tara Strong as Batgirl, Jeffrey Combs as Scarecrow and Michael Rosenbaum as Flash.

[@SerumLake]

I agree about Michael Rosenbaum, and I think I prefer George Newbern as Superman. I'm not saying that Tim Daly was bad as Superman - far from it! - but I think George was generally better at conveying Superman's anger.

[@The_Phantasm]

@@SerumLake True. They were both great and I like both George and Tim the same. What do you think about the other ones I mentioned?

[@SerumLake]

@@The_Phantasm Can't say that I really noticed much of a difference between the Talia voice actors, and I think I prefer the original Batgirl. I prefer the original Scarecrow voice, but I completely agree that his voice wouldn't have worked with the redesigned costume.

[@The_Phantasm]

@@SerumLake Personally I never really cared for Melissa Gilbert as Batgirl. Her voice just always sounded to me like a 30-year-old woman whereas Barbara was supposed to be in university/college age. Tara Strong is to me the most recognisable voice of Batgirl and the one I associate most with the character. I even preferred Mary Kay Bergman from the SubZero movie to Melissa Gilbert. I also thought that Tara Strong just had better chemistry with the rest of the cast, especially Loren Lester.

[@zemox2534]

​@Angel of Death I prefer Tara as Barb than Harley Quinn. Her performance as Harley is just annoying. I wish Paul Dini would ask Sorkin to reprise her role. At least once.

[@Kevin-oj2rb]

4:20 lmao

[@a1rg3ar31]

The fact that there's a Harley Quinn animated series tie-in comic makes me want to throw up (also the art in the comic looks horrendous). To quote AVGN, "it's like puking on a pile of shit."

[@RicardoSantos-oz3uj]

Back when writers could write. And not whatever they are doing now.

[@JanetStarChild]

I think it's mainly due to younger generations now being so uncultured. Young adults these days don't really absorb anything outside of pop-culture crap. These people don't read books, don't watch foreign/indy films, and don't really engage with anything that isn't shiny new and trendy. Add to that, a generation that has never experienced the world before the Internet and smartphones. Millennials and Zoomers are insipid twits; and the next generation isn't fairing any better.

[@michaelandreipalon359]

So, DEI and Sweet Baby again?

[@ApocalypticAnarchy01]

I know very little about BTAS but i know that i adore Annie and absolutely love your interpretation of her as a neglected trans girl (or mixing both of the two ideas you suggest at least!), I hope she has more cameos in the future but all else fails I’ll write her into my fanfics when i get more motivation to write/draw ik the future!

[@TransPandaArt]

🪴Hi, I'm a fictive of Annie that formed recently, and we would love to see those fics if you ever get to them....! 🤎 (Been considering ourselves to write one of Annie and Robin at the skateboard park casually chatting, honestly :^oc )

[@tarnishedknight9909]

I agree this episdoe as heartbreaking

[@TheRealHelvetica]

I definitely see Annie more as Clayface’s daughter than his transgender side but if you do go with that interpretation… Annie walked so that Stephanie could date Chad.

[@gablit-gt8kk]

Clayface survived which is a relieve

[@SpecialAgentOso]

Xion

[@SDR1639]

robin voice look like sora

[@blazejlovibe6933]

Annie are okay ? So annie are okay ? are you okay annie?

[@venomousink3859]

I wonder if you can talk about she bat

[@SerumLake]

I have Man-Bat on my list, but I think I'll talk about her during that video too.

[@Babygirls9301999]

😥😭