THE HERD | Colin Cowherd SHOCKED, Bo Nix Is The MOST Accurate QB, BEST Situation With Denver Broncos

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Julian W. Lucas Sports

Julian W. Lucas Sports

Күн бұрын

THE HERD | Colin Cowherd SHOCKED, Bo Nix Is The MOST Accurate QB, BEST Situation With Denver Broncos
#theherd #colincowherd #denverbroncos

Пікірлер: 100
@jeffcramer2463
@jeffcramer2463 9 ай бұрын
It’s going to be fun to watch how all these quarterbacks develop and work out for their teams. As a Bronco fan it’s really cool that we are a part of all of this. I have a sneaky feeling Nix is going to do very well.
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
Yeah I'm excited as well. I think the NFL is in great shape with all these QBs now.
@gracesoto3384
@gracesoto3384 9 ай бұрын
Let’s go! I’m excited let’s go Broncos country
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
Yeah I think he can hit the ground running honestly.
@DuckedUpLife
@DuckedUpLife 9 ай бұрын
Bo is a spitting image of drew breeze but a little bigger built. He is a gamer and a life long student of football, specifically the quarterback position. This guy prepares, film study and preps like None other! Eat, sleep, football, pray is Bo Nix. Great leadership qualities, and a chip on his shoulder like no other. As an Oregon fan I’m extremely excited to see what he does with Sean Payton and the broncos. And a cherry on top is landing Troy Franklin in the 4th round… just crazy to me. I’m officially blue and orange on Sundays! 🦆🐴
@mattjewett4473
@mattjewett4473 9 ай бұрын
You and me both. Ducks, now Broncos. (And Chargers)
@hokieduck
@hokieduck 9 ай бұрын
Dux fan here. Bo has a much bigger arm than Drew Brees. He consistently drove the ball into tight windows. He hit Troy Franklin over and over on long routes. Most importantly, his decision making pre and post snap is solid already. He only had one online course his senior year; he literally attended offensive coaches meetings. He *is* humble and he is a really good leader who guys would run through fire for. He will be fantastic in the community. But most importantly, Bo and Payton are a match made in heaven.
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
Yeah I think Bo Nix is absolutely set up to succeed in Denver!
@Joes35
@Joes35 9 ай бұрын
Bo Nix has just as much of a chance to be good as any of these QB’s that got drafted. Sean Payton is a good head coach and offensive mind.
@jason5265
@jason5265 9 ай бұрын
Broncos need to add a top tier WR to help him
@Mike-xj6pi
@Mike-xj6pi 9 ай бұрын
@@jason5265they did Troy Franklin
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
I totally agree.
@projectcorgi
@projectcorgi 9 ай бұрын
I think Bo Nix was the perfect pick for us.
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
I think so too!
@Chronoic
@Chronoic 9 ай бұрын
Honestly, if BO went to anyone but the Broncos, the pick would be a over reaching pick. The fact that he went to a Coach that fits what he does, makes it a good pick. Out of all the QB selected I like what DEN and MN did, The falcons maybe is the worst.
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
I agree!
@andrewclapper2630
@andrewclapper2630 9 ай бұрын
I like Bo's situation a lot, i think weapon wise, JJ and the Vikings might be slightly better? Enjoying the breakdowns! Keep up the good work!
@KFBALL247
@KFBALL247 9 ай бұрын
Uhhh Caleb Williams? Lol Bears have 3 WR’s that would be WR1 on Denver. But Franklin was a steal and Sutton is pretty legit. I think Nix will be solid.
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
Thank you so much! I really appreciate it!
@Badger5280
@Badger5280 9 ай бұрын
Denver has never drafted a elite QB in its history. I have a feeling Nix will be the first! He is a good kid and his his life together on top of his talent on the field. Also Mark is by far the smartest and most likable guy out there! He was always nice to my folks when they lived in his neighborhood.
@5891jonathan
@5891jonathan 9 ай бұрын
John Albert Elway Jr.
@apc3036
@apc3036 9 ай бұрын
Drafted by the Colts. Broncos traded for him.​@@5891jonathan
@sethtenrec
@sethtenrec 9 ай бұрын
@@5891jonathan nice try, they didn’t draft him. They didn’t draft Manning either.
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
That's awesome! He's definitely an every guy's guy. He's also extremely passionate.
@williamfox1146
@williamfox1146 9 ай бұрын
Sean Payton knows quarterbacks.
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
Mmhmm
@djcapo6969
@djcapo6969 9 ай бұрын
I think Bo will be the next up coming Patrick..He is a smart young man that can ball
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
Do you think they make the playoffs this season?
@djcapo6969
@djcapo6969 9 ай бұрын
Yup
@Mike-xj6pi
@Mike-xj6pi 9 ай бұрын
Lord I hope so
@gj5990
@gj5990 9 ай бұрын
A big arm does laser in a ball much cleaner and without getting picked. It can matter. “Making moves” still has to prove as good moves in the playoffs.
@NutJob9
@NutJob9 9 ай бұрын
But his arm is good. The narrative about his arm is false. Just watch the tape.
@Embo_Marrok
@Embo_Marrok 9 ай бұрын
His arm is good. Just a bunch of talking heads
@immenseofperspectives8295
@immenseofperspectives8295 9 ай бұрын
55mph- Herbert 58mph- Nix 60mph- Mahomes
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
Those numbers are crazy!
@threeohhhthreee372
@threeohhhthreee372 9 ай бұрын
I take back everything I said about Sean. I was harsh on him when they let Simmons go and decided to pay Russ to play somewhere else. But it’s a good deal all around. Happy we got a young qb who can get rid of the ball.
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
Yeah I think the future is bright for Denver.
@DPRyan-vd5pp
@DPRyan-vd5pp 9 ай бұрын
We live in Denver and listen to 104.3 the fan here in Denver, Mark Schlereth is on here in the mornings with Mike Evans, not the buccaneers player lol Schlereth knows his sh**!
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
Haha oh yeah. He’s a really smart ex player for sure!
@BretStevens-j4g
@BretStevens-j4g 9 ай бұрын
Stink is great. He knows his stuff and is very enjoyable to listen to on the fan. Really funny too
@rhondarhonxa5323
@rhondarhonxa5323 9 ай бұрын
Welcome to Denver, Mr nix
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
Instant success?
@jammininthepast
@jammininthepast 9 ай бұрын
To not have the ability to air out the ball 60-70 yards is a handicap that defenses can take advantage of. However, Nix can throw the ball plenty deep, if that's not enough just draft Joe Milton who can stand at the thirty and throw it through the uprights and who can't hit a bull in the ass @ 50 feet. Nix is a system rhythm and timing qb whos arm is as strong as Brees, Montana, Brady, Staubach, Tarkenton etc.etc. who were pretty f'n successful. The lazy, plastic, jejune sports parrots just read the script, most of them don't know shit from shine-ola. Lets let the man play a few games and patiently form an evaluation. Thanks brother, appreciated.
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 8 ай бұрын
Totally agree! I really think Bo can settle in nicely. Of course like any rookie he will have his issues. But I think the confidence he will just fail is completely unfounded.
@sojinkim5887
@sojinkim5887 9 ай бұрын
It WASN'T Sean Payton who traded for Russell Wilson a few years ago. They didn't match together from the beginning. Sean Payton didn't really like Russell Wilson. Bo Nix got a great chance to be successful with Sean Payton. They hit the JACKPOT together.
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
I’m excited to see the future!
@joeshawcroft7121
@joeshawcroft7121 9 ай бұрын
Oregon ran a lot of pro concepts in their offense. Watch chase Daniel’s break down Nix against USC and he points this out. Nix is a good QB. He set protections, read the field well, went through progressions and knew where to go with the ball and put the ball in the right spot waaay more often than not. Take away all the short throws and he still led the NCAA in metrics that count.
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 8 ай бұрын
thank you for the rec! I appreciate it!
@MicahDamger
@MicahDamger 9 ай бұрын
The threat of throwing it 70 yards is where the value is. It stretches the defense. Forces them to respect the threat. Opens up the short and intermediate. And forces defenses to never be able to stack the box against the run. Because if the play is play action, and defense tries to cheat, or gets complacent, boom 70 yard TD.
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 8 ай бұрын
I hear what you're saying, but really what keeps a defense honest is not so much a 70 yard bomb, but more establishing a run game, established tight ends, and a deep threat WR. But it certainly doesn't need to be a home run shot.
@fetchthisdog
@fetchthisdog 9 ай бұрын
Bo and jj will be the best qbs in the class because of there head coaches denver was in this situation before with cutler who was the so called 3 best in his class and you can say by far he was the best in that class why cause he had Shanahan as a head coach
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
Better than Caleb?
@fetchthisdog
@fetchthisdog 9 ай бұрын
Absolutely
@skipperdarrell
@skipperdarrell 9 ай бұрын
Hockey analyst Dteve Dangle says that all draft picks are magic beans. You never know what you're going to get until they grow. I do though like the kid.
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
Haha I like that. Highly accurate!
@gillster3744
@gillster3744 9 ай бұрын
As A Broncos Faithful who happens to lives in chiefs Kingdumb' Just want a QB that can beat KC once or twice a year. Subscribed.
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
Haha well I think it can happen now! And thank you for the sub!
@Warthogg-wv5wg
@Warthogg-wv5wg 9 ай бұрын
Saying Bo has no arm is like saying the democrats are doing great with the country 😂
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
😂 this a politics free zone!
@apc3036
@apc3036 9 ай бұрын
​@@JWLSportsnothing is these days.
@Warthogg-wv5wg
@Warthogg-wv5wg 9 ай бұрын
The quarter back really didn’t make the difference for the rams goff was just as good. It was really Von who was the real game changer. Aaron’s Donald’s stats literally doubled and the defensive pressure to. Von aloud others to eat easier
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
That helped. But Stafford definitely helped without a doubt.
@robertarmstrong3024
@robertarmstrong3024 9 ай бұрын
I liked your comment about HCs learn and grow with experience. I'm from KC and oddly many of my friends are frim Philly. All I ever heard from them pre-2020 was "I'm sorry, but Andy can get you winning seasons and playoffs, but he'll never win a Superbowl." Like qbs, coaches also have a certain upside, but most franchises will never see the maximum upside potential because they are not patient enough. San Diego laid the same rap on Marty Shottenheimer, but 14-2 wasn't good enough for them, so he was given the boot. How did that go for them? Maybe they should be called the San Diego Browns.
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
Exactly! It is weird that people don't realize that coaches also learn and grow as time goes on. That they also have to lose, fail, and make lots of mistakes before they can become great, just like players.
@John-zz6fz
@John-zz6fz 9 ай бұрын
I think Denver is going to surpass most expectations this season and that's largely going to be the result of Sean Payton getting a QB that can fully execute his system. I also agree that Bo was the best QB hands down for Payton in this draft. Would they have grabbed Caleb at #1? Most likely the ownership would have made that call and grabbed Caleb. I think Bo will have a great rookie contract under Payton and Denver fans are going to be fairly happy for the next few years.
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 8 ай бұрын
I think Denver can be legit trouble for teams. How quickly this comes together, I really don't know. But I'm not betting against Sean to struggle for much longer.
@jammininthepast
@jammininthepast 9 ай бұрын
Denver & Minnesota had to pull the trigger where they did or not get Nix or McCarthy especially after Penix went 8. Do I wish they could of traded back and got Nix somewhere between 22-36, of course, but it wasn't happening. These guys talking trash on their pathetic click bait pods dont know shit, they just parrot the "hot take". Thanks appreciated.
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 8 ай бұрын
Yeah also, if you want Bo Nix, there's no reason to play games and gamble in hopes of getting him at 22-36. Just get him when you can and worry about the rest as it comes.
@MicahDamger
@MicahDamger 9 ай бұрын
Payton came in gun blazing talking about this trash about the prior coach and the totally crapped the bed. The way he treats players and coaches is downright disrespectful. And there is no reason to think he is as special as others think. He had a HOF, top ten QB in NFL history and Gregg Williams running the defense. Without Brees, he has never done a thing. Even when given a relatively young HOF SB winning QB, it was a trainwreck. If he succeeds with Bo, then it’s fair to say he is an all time great. If he fails, he is slightly above average. Brees and his success have more to do with him being the son of a legendary coach.
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
I do agree I didn't like how he came in last season. But I think he learned from his mistakes. He is definitely an old school style coach.
@MarkLewis-l3f
@MarkLewis-l3f 9 ай бұрын
Nix DID only run a pro style offense (sort of) for one year in college. Nix DID struggle in that offense & Nix WAS benched. Nix DID transfer to Oregon to remove himself from it & get back to his former OC. However...the argument is NOT that Nix won't be any good in the NFL or that Sean Payton can't coach him up. We know that nobody is better with QBs than he is. But if you are referring to the argument I have been making multiples times on these KZbin channels, then that is a false interpretation of what I have said. Running a "pro style" offense is not just about timing, it's about the ability to make up to 5 or 6 different reads of an NFL defense so rapidly that the QB knows not only where to go with the ball, but where not to. NOTHING that Nix got in the Gus Malzahn/Kenny Dillingham offense he played in at Auburn & Oregon prepares him to do that. Don't take my word for that. Take the word of NFL QB trainer Jordan Palmer, who has personally trained Joe Burrows, Josh Allen...and also Jarrett Stidham. He's the one who said that Stidham got virtually nothing of value in the college system he was in for the NFL...the same system Nix was in. NOW...that said...I DO believe that Sean Payton wanted Nix, which means I believe that he ca play in the NFL. The issue is not whether he can play...but WHEN he can play. Just as I take Payton at his word that he wanted Nix, I ALSO take him at his word that he WANTED Jarrett Stidham, who he also signed immediately as the very first thing he did when he got to Denver. Stidham played in exactly the same offense in college that Nix did...& if you compare them both when they were playing against NFL caliber talent in the SEC...Stidham was better. People are vastly under rating his talent but also the value that Stidham has gotten by siting for 4 years with Tom Brady, Bill Belichick, Josh McDaniels & of course...Sean Payton. That development time is an ENORMOUS advantage. Payton said on two occasions that not only does he think Stidham can be a starter, he also went further & described him as having a high football IQ, being very intelligent, having a fast mental processor & throwing a very catchable ball. Those are the very qualities he saw in Drew Brees, which is why Payton signed him when nobody in the NFL even wanted to offer him a contract. Those are also the qualities he's expressed admiring in Nix. You can't trumpet that with one guy & ignore it with the other. Nix could possibly start in 2024, but don't bet on that. It's more likely that Payton will go with a vet who has already not only been in his system for a year, but one who does the same kind of things Nix does but has the benefit of being in the best QB development rooms in the league for almost as long as Nix has been in college when he was making one & two reads in a system that does nor prepare quarterbacks for the NFL. The debate here is not simply whether Nix can be good in the NFL, it's whether he can be better than Stidham...or at least better than him in 2024. There is an automatic assumption that Jarrett is just a backup since he hasn't started yet. We have seen what can happen when a guy with talent is allowed to sit & learn. We've also seen what can happen when a guy with talent is thrust into the mix before he's ready. Which course of action would a smart coach like Payton be most likely to take?
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
Haha I think you may have been the comment I referred to in this video! I don't think your points are inherently wrong, or not worth considering. I just think evaluation college QBs and how they will play in the NFL is brutally difficult and not as simple as people want to believe.
@AdamB34
@AdamB34 6 ай бұрын
@@MarkLewis-l3f Why do you keep lying about Nix transferring out of Auburn because he couldn't run a pro style offense? That's a 100% lie. He transferred, ALONG WITH 31 OTHER PLAYERS, because the new Head Coach, Bryan Harsin, was a complete disaster that most of the players HATED. Harsin didn't even last 2 full seasons at Auburn before getting fired half way through year 2 and the two recruiting classes he bought in WERE THE TWO WORST RECRUITING CLASSES IN AUBURN FOOTBALL HISTORY. Numerous players publicly said Harsin was the worst coach they ever played for with one saying "he treated us like dogs" and Nix said playing for him "was a nightmare". And yet, you KEEP repeating this narrative that Harsin ran this amazing pro style offense that Nix simply couldn't grasp lol. ALL of Harsin's qbs in college WERE ALL TERRIBLE. The best qb he EVER developed as a head coach was Brett Rypien, who was terrible and went undrafted and has been a terrible back up/3rd string qb in the nfl. And that's the BEST qb Harsin ever developed as a head coach. Stop pretending Nix struggled in that bum's offense because it was "pro style" lol. Harsin is just simply a HORRIBLE head coach and he can't developed qbs at all. Now... why do you also keep pretending that Payton wants Stidham as his starting qb? You keep saying "he WANTED Stidham" and the fact that he signed him AS A BACK UP QB means he WANTS him as his future franchise qb lol. Yeah... he WANTED Stidham to be his qb so badly that he IMMEDIATELY DRAFTED A QB WITH THE 12TH PICK 🤦 You also keep insisting that Stidham being a scrub back up for 5 years somehow means he's better than any rookie qb lol. No, it means he's a scrub back up. If he's so good, why did the Patriots go with washed up Cam Newton instead of Stidham in 2020? In fact, Stidham wasn't even the back up. He was 3rd string behind Newton and Brian Hoyer. Then in 2021 New England drafted Mac Jones round 1 instead of going with Stidham and once again Stidham was the 3rd string qb behind Jones and Hoyer. Seems odd that you claim he's soooooo good because of his time in New England being coached by Josh McDaniels and Belichick yet he couldn't even beat out Brian Hoyer for the back up qb spot in New England. In fact, in his rookie season they actually let him play when they were up 30-7 and he immediately threw a pick 6 and they put Brady back in lol. You're aware that Sean Payton would say good things about literally any qb he has right? He will say every back up on the team "could be a starter", that's his job, to support his players publicly. Also... saying "high football IQ" and "intelligent" and "fast mental processing" are literally ALL THE SAME THING LOL. It's not 3 separate compliments referring to 3 separate things lol. It's also incredibly weird that you keep trying to link Stidham to Drew Brees by saying "those are things Payton said about Drew Brees too". Yeah, he also said similar things about Taysom Hill and Jameis Winston lol. Gee, it's almost like he'll just say good things about every qb he coaches. Nooooo... he only says this stuff about the phenom Jarrett Stidham 🤷 The debate IS NOT whether Nix can be better than Stidham lol. If Sean Payton thought Stidham was better HE WOULDN'T HAVE DRAFTED NIX 12TH OVERALL. If Bill Belichick thought Stidham was good, HE WOULDN'T HAVE DRAFTED MAC JONES AND MADE BRIAN HOYER THE BACK UP OVER STIDHAM... TWICE. Aside from Steve Young like 40 years ago and Geno Smith recently who are all these career career back up/3rd string qbs who suddenly became good in their 6th season on their 3rd team? You keep referencing "what we've seen when a qb sits and learns" but 99% of those qbs only sat for half or all of their rookie years then started year 2. They weren't back ups/3rd stringers for 3 teams in 5 years lol. Guys like Aaron Rodgers and Jordan Love who sat for 3 years BEHIND HALL OF FAMERS WHO WERE STILL MVP QBS were 1st round picks who both were being talked about as the #1 pick in the draft at certain points. They weren't 4th round picks who couldn't even beat out washed up/old Cam Newton, Brian Hoyer or Mac Jones like Stidham 🤣🤣🤣. Bro... you seem TERRIBLY confused.
@AdamB34
@AdamB34 6 ай бұрын
@@JWLSports the o.p is literally just a Jarrett Stidham troll. It may actually be Stidham himself on a burner
@JackB.Nimble999
@JackB.Nimble999 9 ай бұрын
This is a pure fan take.
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
Maybe, But I don't see it that way
@JackB.Nimble999
@JackB.Nimble999 9 ай бұрын
@@JWLSports Commentary focus on the most probable outcome, not the rosiest possible scenario.
@TroyDumonte
@TroyDumonte 9 ай бұрын
More bout arm strength with velocity in the NFL not throwing 70 yards. Ol Bo ain't going to be throwing to wide open receivers dude
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
So you don't think he will succeed?
@kev-hu8lh
@kev-hu8lh 9 ай бұрын
He beats out williams in every category in 20+ yarders and watched him throw a td of 65 air yards at pro day. But okay. Btw, herbert threw 61 air yard at his
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
So you think he will be better than caleb?
@JeremyMcIntyre-v1n
@JeremyMcIntyre-v1n 9 ай бұрын
They should Celab Williams is going to be a bust. No, not good, I told them not to get Russell. No one listened. So Bo is going to be a bust but JJ and penix are not? I do not understand all were supposed to go in the 2nd round but went in the first. Mark is wrong. Deep ball is important even if you do not use it. Creating that treat pulls dbs and LBs off the line, giving the offense more space to work. It's good to have a deep ball, but it's not everything you can do fine without it if you do everything else well. Bo arm isn't that strong, but it is strong enough to create that threat.
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 8 ай бұрын
So which QB do you think won't be a bust?
@travisoshea
@travisoshea 9 ай бұрын
Nix will 1000% be able to run Seans system and scheme. To who ever said he wont be able to do that is just lost. hahaha Marc is also wrong about the timing of the hitch with the deep ball and Fanigo runs more QQH and quarters than anyone else in the NFL so those were two off comments but that is neither here nor there
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
Never in a million years would I have guessed that Bo Nix would have been the most controversial pick in the draft.
@JamesTreadville
@JamesTreadville 9 ай бұрын
I disagree with you
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
About?
@johnnyjj8633
@johnnyjj8633 9 ай бұрын
Career backup qb by year 3
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
😂
@viralbull8085
@viralbull8085 9 ай бұрын
Anyone talking isht about nix are click baiting, they know the guy is brand, and at the broncos Wilson set the bar so low that winning more than 5 games will be a telemetric achievement.
@Zangyaks
@Zangyaks 9 ай бұрын
You know the Broncos won 8 games last year?
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
Do you think they can make the playoffs?
@viralbull8085
@viralbull8085 9 ай бұрын
@@JWLSports i wouldn't worry about the chiefs much, they have their 3 SB's and their players are aging out. if we play that scenario who should we be afraid of? the raiders or the chargers? that's what commentators like you should be focus in on? are the raiders or or chargers stronger this year? the chiefs have their gold, i don't think they are going to be much of a danger this season, they have their taylor swift so they are going to relax, i think we have the wild card slot this season so we can make the play off's straight away at the 1# seed. we have to see the first games to see what we are playing with cuz we are pretty much going in with a brand new roaster so who knows?
@wjperdue
@wjperdue 9 ай бұрын
It's a reach
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
I don’t think so.
@wjperdue
@wjperdue 9 ай бұрын
@JWLSports I've watched for years. I hope I'm wrong, but probably not.
@Embo_Marrok
@Embo_Marrok 9 ай бұрын
3 teams behind them were going to take him
@wjperdue
@wjperdue 9 ай бұрын
@@Embo_Marrok the beauty of this discussion is we will see if they were right. I don't think anyone in that building has a strong track record of drafting qb. As of now, I don't trust the pick.
@DrewHop325
@DrewHop325 9 ай бұрын
Denver New England the Pats thanks to Brady the Ravens and KC are the 4 best teams of the last 25 years...
@JWLSports
@JWLSports 9 ай бұрын
Eagles are up there as well they have the second most playoff wins in the last 25 years or so.
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