The Heroine Archetype

The Heroine archetype and how she functions in the mythology, psychology, and culture

[@aclairefranken7660]

Have you ever thought that the four Ninja Turtles fit perfectly Jung's Male Quartet? Michelangelo-The Lover Raphael-The Warrior Donatello-The Wizard Leonardo-The King Never thought about that until Silver-Quill mentioned it

[@aclairefranken7660]

Thanks for the heart!

[@aclairefranken7660]

Lover means a lust for life in general, it's hard to think of a role that better fits Mikey

[@Mitheledh]

I was under the impression that Ripley was more than just the phallic woman, at least in Aliens. Sure, she's a badass that does a lot of what men do, but her motivations are still distinctly feminine. With the discovery of Newt, she sort of goes into Mamma Bear mode, taking on the role of a mother protecting her child. That culminates when she takes on her alien counterpart, the queen. It's a mother versus mother fight.

[@briannalee1998]

I completely agree! I always saw Ellen as being like a mother and that battle with the Queen being mother vs mother

[@aclairefranken7660]

I really love your archetype videos I think its really important to show what TO DO when creating fiction not just what NOT TO DO

[@jotun5383]

I personally think that Sarah Connor and Ellen Ripley have a heroic feminine side to them as they act out of their fertility aspect. They both adopt or are mothers. Ripley "becomes" the mother of Newt and returns to the hive to get "her child" out of the danger. And Connor has her son to protect. This aspect - in my opinion - overshadows their badassery. Because they would be heroes even if they failed.

[@greenliongirl07]

Thank you! Finally something that makes sense why the heroines I grew up with seemed so powerful to me. I have been hearing so much SJW junk lately I was starting to worry that their ideas were the new standards and why Captain Marvel and the new SheRa make me so mad or I can't connect with them (ok maybe they are just trailers, but I could connect with Wonder Woman in her trailer while Captain Marvel just comes off as a wooden jerk).

[@peakinpeakin9884]

I would disagree about Ripley and Sarah Connor. While they embody the phallic energy of Both in a position forced to take action because both have children. A big reason why the work as badass mythically is because they fill the role of the Ferocious mother bear. If your dog bit a child who would you want deal with the father or the mother? I also echo another comment about exploring the Phallic Woman as well. Anyway thanks for your hard work!

[@GoodGuySatan]

To be fair, He also mentioned that heroine archetype may devolve into phallic woman. And while in Alien I she wanted to return to her daughter, in Alien II she would take a whole hive to save a girl she transmitted her maternal instincts onto, in later movies there was no such thing. As for Sarah Connor - She did her damn best to survive in the first movie, and she was basically a warrior in the 2nd. Also for the sake of his child. I don't remember 3rd movie.

[@Scoonertuna]

@@davidh.4944 That was part of James Cameron's plan. At the time, the 80' decade, There was a second wave of Feminism. This wave was more centered now on women embracing their womanhood. The first one was about equal rights, the 2nd was about not forgetting who you are and to find the strength within. The Terminator and Aliens Came out around that time and had embraced these qualities. In fact, most of the science fiction at the time was embracing this philosophy and that's where we got some really cool stuff Both Sarah Connor and Ellen Ripley are strong, but the movies are quick to remind then, and the audience as well, that they are women too. They are given a life of struggle and triumph, yet denied what each of them wanted the most: a loving husband and children born away from the conflict in their lives. Both Newt and John are symbols of the women's humanity, or a symbolic reminder of a happier time in their lives. Yet they do not let this consume their actions. At the end of the day, when all is said and done, these children are separate entities and need to be defended until they are ready to defend themselves.

[@DavidSilva-mn4dz]

My favorire heroine is Sue Storm, an every woman who was dragged to the fantastic an the unknown for the love for her husband, brother and friend. She use her femenine skills as seduction, intuition and grounded logic saving her teammates in many ocations, the femenine force, sometimes ignored but always present like her invisibility power. The nurture and loving woman materialized by the force field, that started as shields and latee on she uses them to attack too like " don't mess with my boys sweetie'. Susan develops agency and knoledge through the pass of time just as many common women inspired by feminism. She wanted a family and she achieved it, wanted to continue her studies after raising Johnny and she acomplished it, a character that complements her husband's attributes capable of remaining cool even in civil war. An amazing character and a fair lady.

[@DavidSilva-mn4dz]

I love the way Sue and Reed can be menacing to a level of inspire terror on their enemies if the situation need it.

[@Jimbobalina1]

Ellen Ripley’s character worked so well because of her mother/daughter bond with Newt. What made her a powerful character was the fact that she wasn’t a hardened soldier, she was a mother protecting her young out of sheer desperate, maternal instinct (as a mirror to the Alien queen). I don’t agree that she was the Phallic Woman archetype. Sarah Connor on the other hand had become a Phallic Woman due to the void left by Kyle Reese. She hated men for building weapons of war but needed the masculine wartime attitude to protect and teach John.

[@Darrylizer1]

Jimbobalina1 Agreed re Sarah Connor for sure. Ripley was the phallic woman more so in the first movie Alien, but by Aliens and her relationship with Newt, she was definitely the feminine hero, and as you said a mirror to the queen.

[@RayVision3D]

@@Darrylizer1 I don't think Ripley really fits the phallic woman archetype in Alien, but she does in Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection. In Alien she seemed more like the frontierswoman, doing whatever was necessary because there was nobody left "to do the heavy lifting". That was an example of desperation causing you to do things you didn't know you could do than doing things a man would normally do, and that is what a frontiersman or frontierswoman represents: Overcoming seemingly insurmountable odds by tapping into abilities you didn't know you had. In Alien 3 and Alien Resurrection, a man could have been put in that role and the only thing that would have changed was the sexual innuendo throughout the movie.

[@Darrylizer1]

​@@RayVision3D Yes, I agree with you, good point. That final scene when she realizes the Alien is aboard the shuttle and she is TERRIFIED yet does what she must do to survive is an amazing bit of acting and film. That realness of Ripley's character is what made Alien a great movie. She was an ordinary human in extraordinary circumstances and not a typical Arnold like hero.

[@orlandom394]

I love when Wonder Woman is written right, she is a lover first then a fighter dc has noticed that when she is written like this she sells less like that so they now focus on her warrior side, her comic has slowly been going back to basics so there’s hope

[@Missrena1000]

Great video, Prof Geek. Question, would you do a companion video on the phallic woman? I would love to hear more of your thoughts on that.

[@1992holycrap]

Watching your videos as an aspiring storyteller, I honestly wish you were my professor while I was still in community college, because it makes me realize just how little I actually know about creative writing and storytelling.

[@ProfessorGeekMC]

We learn through practice. Never give up, and thanks!

[@xlrouge]

Btw professor, I’m so buying your archetype book when it’s out!

[@DRYeisleysCreations]

Phallic woman=female hyena. Heroine archetype= lioness.

[@superlord1428]

I love Gothamazon it's shows that not every hero cannot and should not be Batman. He has way and the other heroes have there own ways.

[@Scoonertuna]

It is truly a shame how often the Heroin archetype gets chewed up in the commercialism, and politics of the entertainment community. The female archetype of heroism has, and always should be, inclusive for everyone. It does not just cater to girls, women or the LGBTQ+ community. It belongs to everybody. There are multiple qualities I like and admire about Wonder Woman, Black Widow, She-Ra, Catwoman, Harlwy Quinn, etc. These characters all possess qualities and subtle details we may even see within ourselves which continue to bring us back to them not solely because of some superficial title they hold.

[@schwarzeseis4031]

SOmething new learned, day not wasted :) The way you describe The Heroine makes me think that she basically embodies what I would call perfection in humans: Overcoming social boundaries and working around natural ones -- Isn' that what a human brain is made for in the first place?

[@blasphemousgenius247]

Hey,question? Do you think a male character can exhibit heroine attribute?

[@briannalee1998]

That’s why Wonder Woman has both feminine and masculine traits and was originally written as having both feminine and masculine powers. Diana’s feminine traits are supposed to be a strength and outweigh her masculine traits. Characters like Claire Bennet, Katara, She-Ra, Nausicaa, Jean Gray, Elastigirl, and Wonder Woman when she is written right, are perfect for the heroine archetype. 1:13 yes! It is sexist when Hollywood makes every woman a phallic woman. I like my heroines who are feminine and feel like actual woman I know, but happen to be badass and in untraditional roles. I also prefer the WW origin when she is sent from Themyscira and I like it when she is both an ambassador, healer, and warrior. She’s interesting when her different sides are portrayed and highlighted by her feminine traits. I loved Gothamazon! It was fantastic.

[@xlrouge]

Excellent!!!!

[@M567dk]

You mention the MOVIE VERSION of Black Widow, but what is your take on the Comic book version of the character ?

[@Pegas105]

I do think you make some very valid points in your remarks as I tend to look to the "badass" heroine as a hero archetype because the "damsel in distress" trope, as least to me, can be tiresome unless done in the interest of satire for example Popeye, Dudley Do-Right or the Perils of Penelope Pitstop. But what I think a lot of these feminist writers want to do with these female characters is basically write the heroine with no flaws or vulnerabilities and this "I am woman hear me roar" attitude on steroids and call it good writing.

[@crystalbeast14]

This was an interesting video I always thought of the heroine as a counterpart to the male hero simply female but there's so much that I never thought about after what I was echoed that women had to do the same things that men do to be heros but this is really cool oncept of just "doing things differently" as openwd my eyes. I'm certainly going to experiment with some female hero designs in my writing and my visual art

[@darksideapoc]

Can you do a video on the different types of villains?

[@solomani5959]

Hi Prof, you had a video, which I now can’t find, that talks about the mythological male and female body shape in heroes? Ie the way they are traditionally drawn has mythological meaning that predates modern times and runs through most/all cultures. Thanks. (Or am I misremembering).

[@franksciacca5008]

This is a great video.

[@dylucreg8833]

Wow. Great video.

[@haniflawson9225]

Do you think you could do a follow-up video to this, Geek? One that goes more in-depth about the phallic woman and her place in mythology.

[@TheWretchedMammoth]

Great video sir! Is the heroes journey different for female characters? If so I'd love to see your thoughts on that. Please keep dropping the knowledge!

[@EspiritoDeDafne]

I usually refers to the "phallic woman" as "Strong Female Character Trope", when the woman is strong, or badass in another "manly" way, what's not bad, but the problem is that's all the she is. If you turned her into a man, no one would differs this character from generic soldier 1 and generic soldier 2 The main problem is not allowing her to be a actual human being with deep and development. It's like the writers are saying "look, we have a stronge female character, isn't it awesome? We're so #feminist" but they don't bother to write the character any further In writing female characters, I believe in diversity. Is the female character is not feminine but is still a complex and interisting character (if bring strong is not the only thing yoy have to say about her) so there's nothing wrong with it But also there's nothing wrong with the ccharacters being sexy and tradicionally feminine We should not limited the female characters and what they can be, any type of character can be great if well-writen And there's not wrong with being feminine in general, not only in fiction. Being feminine is not better or worse than being masculine. Little girls should have all the types of female characters as examples, not only one or another

[@SergeiBSG]

Will your book have a specific chapter about Wonder Woman? The Wonder Woman video series is as awesome as this Archetypes video series. Great work!!

[@ProfessorGeekMC]

Thanks!

[@GeneralTantzu]

I dislike the phallic woman archtype you talked about immensely. I think Ellen Ripley isn't really one of those, her character arc is all about motherhood. Really like these archtype videos, keep it up!

[@oliverford5367]

Sarah Connor certainly isn't a phallic woman in the beginning. She's a clumsy waitress. Her heroic journey is powerful

[@mrsanatra1]

I am starting to write my own comic with a trinity (2 guys 1 girl) and this helped a LOT. I always understood character progression as well you cant go about women the same way you would a man but didnt know to, with this video i have a great idea, THANK YOU, keep up the work bro

[@blues4509]

Not saying you do carry a particular disdain of the archetype you deem as the phallic woman but I must say there is definitely depth to be had with that archetype. Now in comics and western media nowadays it's done in a sanctimonious way but if you're familiar with manga there are plenty of women that fill this role and are able to remain interesting beyond just being badass.

[@arzuozer5717]

For me Sigourney Weaver is the mother of all Final Girls. Question: Is the Final Girl an archetype? Can we see the Final Girl as an archetype? That would be so interesting.

[@sharonkadach6884]

When’s this book coming out??

[@eternallylearning2811]

I now know something new

[@haillobster7154]

One does not simply forget to mention She-Ra despite putting her image on the thumbnail.

[@nerychristian]

Esther from the bible is a good heroine.

[@ProfessorGeekMC]

As is Judith!

[@judymcclenny9549]

A female can go on the hero's journey & it can be a very compelling story. Heroine's are bad-a$$ & relatable. They're way better than "the falic woman".

[@vlnow]

Just a suggestion, but i would love to see you do a series on your favorite game of thrones characters.

[@SnizelOfficial]

That's some good heroin right there.

[@josesarango3408]

Buffy the Vampire Slayer is another perfect example of the Superheroine

[@Stanlos]

I don't think people actually know what Feminism is.

[@firefireice5229]

I agree that the feminine archetype is important however why are there characters that are opposed to the feminine archetype yet have a equally strong appeal to the Fan base from a large audience. Toph Beifong from avatar last air bender and both Arya and Brienne from asoiaf. Why do you think these female characters seem to get away with being opposed to the feminine archetype while other characters fail to do so.

[@ProfessorGeekMC]

Not every female character is or should be the heroine archetype.