The Hidden Flaw in the Grand Seiko SBGW231 | Nobody Talks About This!

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Grand Seiko SBGW231 is a beautiful subtle dress watch with amazing finishing. It really does sparkle like the hope diamond!
It gives you, an in the hand positive impression of quality as it should for its $4300 USD price tag! But I found a strange issue with mine. It looked dirty inside on the edge of the sapphire. The outter facet's of the applied high polish indices looked all scratched but they were perfect just reflecting the image of the glue or crystal issue. Then went online only to find out, others had the same issue or similar issue. The glue/hair like substance on the edge of the sapphire does not inspire confidence to even handle 30m of water resistance.
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[@EscapementWatch]

*Check out my GRAND SEIKO 57GS video here* : kzbin.info/www/bejne/gZyldqChr55lmrs

[@ProfessorPesca]

Well good on you FT for not just blindly praising every watch you review - I like to know the whole watch “warts and all”. As it happens I have the SBGW267 ‘Asakage’, very similar to this and it has exactly this gluey problem, visible with the naked eye too rather than just under a loupe. It’s a bit of a bummer but I *can* make myself unsee it and I still utterly love the piece.

[@tanachip]

I also own this watch and I remember the issue you mentioned. Fortunately mine is perfect. No bubbles.

[@MrGuto]

What an amazing looking watch. Looking forward to buying one soon!

[@EscapementWatch]

Good choice!

[@gamesetmatt23]

I'm sorry.. I think I completely missed the point of this video. I just can't help but want this watch more! It's such a stunner! 🤣🤣😂

[@EscapementWatch]

I understand

[@jojena_imm]

They updated the watch as SBGW301 (glue is gone) and videos like yours might have had an influence in this regard.

[@EscapementWatch]

I liked to think Grand Seiko knows I exist but I'm pretty sure this video had no effect. But glad the glue is gone!

[@hrs.ai2018]

To have +0-1 on side position testing is ultimate crazy performance

[@SunsetSheen]

I was seriously considering buying one about a year ago. It looks even better in person but those QC issues are kind of inexcusable for any timepiece over $2k. Great content as always.

[@arashmalekzadeh1]

I suggest you check all your watches. Even $10K watch would've flaws. Don't just repeat what you hear.

[@N3VURMYND]

@@arashmalekzadeh1 That submissive attitude is exactly why Seiko is still able to sell crappy $1000+ watches with bezel misalignment issues and crappy unregulated movements. To allow GS to do the same with their $4000+ watches is beyond bonkers!

[@arashmalekzadeh1]

​@@N3VURMYND ok what ever you say

[@N3VURMYND]

@@arashmalekzadeh1 Because of course, you'd submit from this conversation so easily. Thanks for proving my point.

[@arashmalekzadeh1]

@@N3VURMYND I just don't like to argue with people that just repeat what the person says in video all the time. You are one

[@aunWWc]

I believe GS updated this model and now call is SBGW301

[@vktravellog1242]

Wow I am glad you pointed this out and looked at my SBGH295 and I dont see any glue and it looks clear. It does have a water resistance to 10 Bar so maybe they use adhesive on the cheapest models with low water resistance. I will keep this in mind and make sure I only buy Grand Seikos with water resistance of at least 10bar. My SBGE275 is 20bar and is flawless but it doesnt have the domed sapphire.

[@garretthu2466]

The new SBGW301 addresses the issue with the glue. That’s the one I’m getting! 😊

[@ELdASenSei]

I'm glad you pointed out the flaws in this one. I was planning on buying the SBGW231 or the SBGW235. This was one of the few dress watches that I really liked and a great lug-to-lug fit for my pussy 6 inch wrist. Despite the flaws, this one is still a stunner. It will be a very hard task, finding an equal stunner for that price.

[@dragosdrb]

I cannot "unsee" it now :( It seemed the perfect dress watch for my 6.5' wrist. However, our eyes don't have a macro lens built in them :D I really haven't found any clear alternative to this piece, mostly because of its beautiful simplicity, excellent versatility of the dial, great size and also the precise hand-wound mechanical movement. Did you have any other similar watches in mind? Tho only one I could think of is the Stowa Marine Classic 36 hand wound, but there are so many drawbacks compared to the GS.

[@EscapementWatch]

Yeah once I found it while filming. Then spent a ton of time trying to clean it with watch maker puddy. (rodico) It wouldn't come off. I started to see it with naked eye. Then I was like ok I'm done. haha. I think you can find a good example in person should be fine. It is hard to see. I think mine was the worst I've seen from internet photos of other owners complaining. Many owners tell me they do not like it but still love the watch. I was thinking of replacing with SBGW289. Plus I get to make another video if I get that. But the pink is stopping me and I think the bracelet might disappoint. That is what is holding me back atm.

[@EscapementWatch]

@dragosdrb I reviewed the stowa 36mm on this channel! Check out the video. I can say that I do not think it will satisfy compared to a GS. Even my 57gs from 1960's feels nicer.

[@Chrissepisje]

Just picked one up for myself, long after watching this video. Guess what? Under a particular angle (and only under a very particular angle) and with sufficient light, and under my macro lens, I can see those glue lines or bubbles or whatever it may be. If you are so damn detail oriented that you sit in an exceedingly well lit room with a microscope to find the fault in your watch, more power to you. I however think it is obnoxiously nerdy to even go there. But when I put the watch on my wrist, I see that soft eggshell coloured and curved dial, and I see those hands dipping at the tip, and the heft of that wonderfully finished case, the extreme sparkle of the indices, and the glitter of those hands under that AR coated domed sapphire..... Damn, son, it is a mighty fine watch. Comfortable too. And the buckle and strap are lovely, come to think of it. The movement has some of the best winding action on a movement I've ever felt. There is no play in the hands, the finishing is more than great at this price point, the accuracy is fantastic, and the material engineering is great. In short, I love this watch. Quite honestly, I have a Santos de Cartier in 35mm that cost twice as much, and while it is a great watch in its own right, if I ever had to choose I'd keep the GS. I'll argue that the reviewer should quit his bitching, put away the macro lens and just go and enjoy this beautiful piece in the sunshine. It makes me feel like a million bucks, at any rate.

[@charredhusk]

I mean I wouldn’t say this is an issue with Grand Seiko at the entry level, but more so at this specific entry level, in the hand-wound mechanical versions. My quartz GS has none of these finishing issues, but costs less than this watch did. I feel like in general the Elegance collection on the lower end just doesn’t always get the care that some other collections do, even at their entry levels.

[@BamBamSecretAgentXer]

Yikes on the bubbles. Thanks for the unbiased look. Need to keep all brands honest

[@blethook]

Sorry to hear that. I have the predecessor (SGBW001, with 9S54 movement & solid caseback) and it doesn't seem to have the glue issue... It must be something they did recently, maybe starting with this reference?

[@Stanjara]

This watch is fantastic!

[@hambango]

You sure these are glue bubbles/hairs? I had the exact same issues with another watch years ago (can't remember which one, probably sold it long ago). The curvature of the crystal and the reflections made it look like tiny bubbles as well, but it turned out that it was only lint that collected in the groove between the crystal and the bezel. I was able to clean it all out with the edge of a thin sheet of paper.

[@EscapementWatch]

I'm sure as anytime I have lint in between the crystal and case I use rodico (*watch maker puddy*) to clean it out. Especially on a video of a watch I like. I want it to look perfect in my shots. This one wouldn't clean. I had one hair of glue so long I could see it with naked eye if I focused on the area. I was so tempted to take tweezers and pull. But I thought it might unravel like a sweater you see in cartoons. And I jam in the rodico really hard in there on this one. Usually just tiny pressure on other watches cleans out the grooves.

[@hambango]

@@EscapementWatch Fair enough. In this case this is indeed an inexcusable issue.

[@sl8ight_yt]

@@EscapementWatch Is it under warranty? Surely if you tweezed out the glue and the crystal came loose that would be an easy warranty claim?

[@Hard_7_Iron]

Yep…your right. The only thing this watch has going for it is the finishing….if you don’t excel at that, its not worth the money.

[@bm5192]

I think now at this price point for a dress watch you can’t beat the 2023 omega deville prestige line. The redesign is much better than the old and they added the 8800 movement.

[@EscapementWatch]

I'll look into them thanks.

[@btmontres1423]

Thanks for this. One of the better reviews of the SBGW231. You made me stop what I was doing to loupe the dial! No glue filaments but did notice some very small particles of dust on the upper inside of the crystal that i would not have seen were it not for those insansely polished hands reflecting them from above...I thought the hands were tarnished at first! Overall the timekeeping is superlative and this timepiece has been a joy to own. Remember that this while a GS, is not a Patek, so if one adjusts expectations then I think the universe is still in order and that sometimes with hand finishing you're going to get these little devils.

[@petermartin9494]

You would be wrong to think Patek is any better.

[@madisonnewyork]

Keeping mine! I don't walk around with a loop to it all day so 🤷‍♂

[@EscapementWatch]

It is a beauty! Yes, I'm crazy and it just gives me an excuse to sell and buy another one for channel review.

[@madisonnewyork]

@@EscapementWatch I'd like to know if the Sbgw291 has the same issue. It has a higher price point so idk if that would mean it is held up to higher qc standards 🤔

[@EscapementWatch]

I'm 95% sure it does not. As it has 100m of water resist. It leans towards the sports dress watch category with its water resistance. But I gotta loupe it to be sure.

[@crouch1521]

Im glad you pointed out the glue issue. One of my grail pieces is a SBGW291 I wander if they also have the glue issue....

[@EscapementWatch]

No they don't have the issue on the 291.

[@crouch1521]

@@EscapementWatch Thankyou, I will hold out and see if they bring out a cream dial version. Also nice it’s 100 meter WR. Just a shame there’s no exhibition caseback

[@EscapementWatch]

It is lovely, I tried it on a couple weeks ago. It felt like it was smaller then its size indicates but that is just because of the GOD case high polish sides. I think if it was 37.5 I would have bought it on the spot! But I only spent 10 min with it.

[@crouch1521]

@@EscapementWatch Funnily enough I just walked through the door from picking up a strap for my SLA051. whilst I was in the Grand Seiko Boutique i tried on the 291.... I am in love with it... I nearly blew my 36mm Explorer savings on it then and there 😂. Though i have learned from the watch hobby that I need to wait 6 months and if i still feel the same i will get one. Id love to see you review one on the channel in the future and a SOTC video is due, I always wander how many you've got in the collection...

[@EscapementWatch]

haha I get it. I was putting my name down for OP36 when I tried on the 291. Only thing I don't like about the OP is the male endlinks...But anyways, I do not have a large collection as I sell most of my watches. That is why I don't do a SoC video as it would be very boring! But I will do one one day. I wish I could keep them all but life expenses and the wife prevent that. It helps getting watches in for weeks at a time for review. For example I've been wearing Monta Noble and Monta Skyquest for the last 3 weeks.

[@davidmcdonald329]

I have the SBGR261 and noticed my watch has that "flaw" also. Pretty much all dress watches have a WR of 30 m, even those that cost much more than these 4K Grand Seikos. Are they glued also? I know that my watch is a dress watch, so I have no intentions of dipping it in water anyway. My snow boots are glued and I've had dry feet for years now. They take much more of a beating than my watch.

[@luxuryfood3810]

This watch second hand is an amazing value.

[@1000lightyrs]

Thanks man, that's quite a flaw. I think I'll stick with my 1970 GS hi-beat for now.

[@EscapementWatch]

Yeah you can't really beat the vintage Grand Seiko

[@N3VURMYND]

It's a beautiful looking timepiece. But that QC issue is really sad considering that it's coming from a brand who's usually known for perfection in even it's tiniest details. You should definitely return it. And if it were up to me, every owner would do the same. It's bad enough people have to eat crap with Seiko watches having QC issues even at their $1000+ watches. But c'mon man, on a GS? Truly unacceptable.

[@brett233]

This watch is great but I’m selling mine too. Just don’t seem to wear it enough. I can’t justify having an expensive dress watch if I rarely wear it. Just bought a Bambino 38mm to use as my occasional dress watch. Can you compare this to the King Seiko before you sell it?

[@EscapementWatch]

I already sold the grand. This video was filmed a month ago. But we release videos on average 1 a week so some videos get long delays for release. The King Seiko wears much larger. The finishing on the indices is worse on the king Seiko KSK. Grand Seiko's is perfect. Grand Seiko has a guy and his only job is to make the indices perfect. It is crazy! The movement is superior in the grand Seiko in positional accuracy and finish by a good amount. But the 6L is no slouch in accuracy. My KS does +6s a day on the wrist which is decent. Case quality same on the SJE083. It is a japan case. Not a china case like the SPB283 I reviewed. Recently some spb283 cases were stolen from china factory and put up on aliexpress. sold out instantly tho.

[@scanspeak00]

Loving your content. Any chance you could review a Timex Expedition North Field model?

[@EscapementWatch]

Will try to get more timex on the channel thanks for suggestion.

[@phillippugh2161]

Finally finally you got a grand Seiko in the channel good job

[@EscapementWatch]

This is actually the second grand seiko on the channel bro! I reviewed my 57gs which I'm wearing right now actually. :)

[@mukakta]

Looks like this is an ongoing issue with the SBGW series. It’s a real shame since you’re essentially left with the luck of the draw whether you receive a faulty unit or not.

[@EscapementWatch]

Yes I wish I knew before I bought. But every review I saw was glowing!!!!!! A++++++

[@vktravellog1242]

Wow I am glad you pointed this out and looked at my SBGH295 and I dont see any glue and it looks clear. It does have a water resistance to 10 Bar so maybe they use adhesive on the cheapest models with low water resistance. I will keep this in mind and make sure I only buy Grand Seikos with water resistance of at least 10bar. My SBGE275 is 20bar and is flawless but it doesnt have the domed sapphire. Why dont you complain to GS and see what they say?

[@jeffdj1975]

Wow that’s so bizarre, I own that watch, and it’s perfect. No glue, no hairlines, perfect polish everywhere.

[@jackh7504]

This is like breaking up with Margot Robbie because after an exhaustive search you found out she has a wart on the bottom of her foot.

[@EscapementWatch]

I had to look up the lady you mentioned. But yes I agree!

[@WatchDanReviews]

How it’s hard to believe an entry level GS would have welded lugs. That’s a lot of work! But it’s a bummer about the glue-that seems like quite an easy and important standard considering even cheap watches like invicta use a pressed crystal.

[@EscapementWatch]

apparently grand seiko fixed it in the newest version sbgw301. Maybe they watched the video when it released and started to re-engineer for the 2024 update.

[@Sojourner88]

It reminds me of the Tissot Visodate 40mm (not the 42mm) which is a great watch

[@rafaelalbarracin9278]

Te felicito has tocado el cielo con las manos 👍

[@kewlger]

Clicking on the caption takes us to the video. You sneaky bastard 😂

[@EscapementWatch]

hahahah sorry

[@1973833]

Just splitting hairs.I like the watch,it looks amazing.I will just change the strap,for something more casual,and wear it on a daily basis.Can't hardly wait.I just wish that i could get my hands on US editions,to get some pop with teal/green dials.That would be a lot of fun.

[@EscapementWatch]

Sounds great!

[@mi626]

Thanks for an excellent video. This was the first time I watched your channel and it was excellent. Subscribed immediately. Just wanted to share my experience with mine. The watch seems to run much faster to the upper end of the specified limit when fully wound and seems to run much slower towards the lower end of the lower limit and I think maybe slower when it needs to be wound again. So with 3 days of reserve, it runs (much?) faster on the first day and runs (much) slower on the 3rd. Is this normal behaviour of this watch? I kind of expected a more regulated movement from GS. I am interested in what you think and experienced and also of your subscribers’. Thanks.

[@Chrissepisje]

Define "much". But yes, depending on spring tension you might get slightly different timing results. It's one of the factors, along with position and temperature. Hell, you can even see completely different numbers for the amplitude depending on how tightly the spring is wound. Typically, performance tends to be best when the spring is around halfway wound. This is quite universal.

[@jtes1442]

GS should do a recall and fix this defect.

[@EscapementWatch]

apparently the newest model that just releases SBGW301 is a refresh with a new crystal to case method. I guess they watched my video. Maybe during a service they will just lazily swap the case and give people the new case for easier servicing.

[@Zotrax1946]

I don’t think it’s a wide problem.. yet for that price- should be better finished.

[@yaaxarr8977]

That’s sick bro 😍

[@jterranova]

Thanks for saving my wallet. Can’t unsee now.

[@EscapementWatch]

My wallet took the hit for you! I watched a ton of videos on this watch before making my purchase to make sure I'm getting my dream dress watch. I thought most would say I'm crazy and too picky, which is what they usually say when I nitpick. But everyone seems to agree with me on this nitpick!

[@howardroark7726]

I'm not sure it's fair to say you're paying only for the finishing when you're getting chronometer performance. To each his own.

[@EscapementWatch]

yeah and the amazing movement. I thought I corrected myself after I said that? my bad

[@howardroark7726]

@@EscapementWatch Fair enough, maybe I missed that.

[@astrayproductions]

Some official needs to verify this claim

[@greenerick]

Great watch but no Lume a deal breaker . Plus great video

[@EscapementWatch]

Thanks for watching!

[@ottowilliamhalim4116]

Isn't vintage Grand Seiko glass is also glued down ? I think my vintage King Seiko might be glued down. I could be wrong though. Never really consider before.

[@EscapementWatch]

My 57Grand Seiko is not glued down. It is pressure fitted with the bezel as most were back then. King seiko is glued down on some models but you buy it complete with a metal ring already glued in and then it sits on a gasket. An example would be 5625-7040 king seiko has this system. I don't know if those types have and visual negatives. I never looped one! yet! But Im always on the hunt for a mint 7040

[@serkanonf]

Your next video will be "Grand Seiko Regret Selling".( There is already one in youtube) I think you intentionally didn't put the winding sound which will haunt you 😜

[@EscapementWatch]

hahaah we shall see. It is a good wind tho

[@anthonyvogt6620]

Did you buy in person?? I would assume someone with your love of Seiko and your knowledge would have put it under a loupe before handing over the $

[@1999zrx1100]

I hear issues with $5k Tudor’s as well, guess you need to examine carefully before you drop the credit card down. 😳

[@EscapementWatch]

apparently they fixed this issue on the newest version the SBGW301! Some say they saw this video! lol

[@AHarker100]

Yes from me.

[@onoff5604]

Manual wind!

[@simonwright6882]

I wonder if it's potential new owner is watching this?

[@EscapementWatch]

They all have it. It is a feature! haha

[@EscapementWatch]

Although this channel is small it does happen. I've had to edit videos or delete them from the channel. On request of Kavar, and once a customer of kavars, and oris on the last video. They did not like that video. hahaha This channel is doomed!

[@johnhebert3855]

That's the danger of the loupe.

[@pannan80]

I don't like boxed crystals....i prefer single domed

[@EscapementWatch]

fair enough. box is my fav!

[@brifiveo]

Can we stop pretending that seiko (especially grand seiko) has a special eye for detail?

[@EscapementWatch]

They do. Look at those hands compared to patek in the video. Also, the applied markers. They got a guy just to polish them and they are pretty dam near perfect.

[@roybatty6368]

@@EscapementWatch But they cut costs in weird and annoying ways. Pass on GS

[@Not-a-bot222]

If Indians jones wore a watch, it would be this.

[@joeskeptical4762]

*My grail.*

[@khazelnut]

Unbelievable it's glued down crystal. Very sloppy.

[@khazelnut]

So what happens when the glue gets old? The crystal falls off?

[@EscapementWatch]

umm I don't know. I don't think that will happen. There are older models SBGW001 with the Seiko logo instead and those are 22 years old no issues yet I've seen on internet.

[@mujarik]

first

[@TakerGamingDE]

Sorry but 11 mm is not thin. Especially for a manual winding watch. Just look at NOMOS for example on how to do it right. That has always been Grand Seiko’s biggest issue so far. Plenty of automatic watches from GP, Chopard, JLC and even ETA based Longines and Mido make way slimmer automatic watches with high power reserves in the same price class. Would really love to own an SBGW231 but until they figure out how to make a slim mechanical watch I can’t justify owning one over my slimmer automatics…

[@chi1057]

Looks like an Orient Bambino to me .....

[@roybatty6368]

Typical Seiko cost cutting.

[@jeffdj1975]

I own the watch n I have zero glue marks.

[@sowhat8087]

Entry level GS would be under $2000.