The Hidden Problem with Seagull Guitars...

Seagull guitars are very playable, sound good and I like them, but that neck join makes a neck reset on any Godin acoustic guitar made after 2006 almost non viable (especially those under $1000), which is a shame for such beautiful guitars don't you think?
ALL guitars will eventually need a neck reset- be it 10, 20, or 30 years.
1- This isn't a problem until the guitar needs a neck reset which all guitars will eventually need, be it 10, 20 or 30 years.
2- Yes epoxy releases under heat, however, however there is no efficient way to heat the pocket enough to release said epoxy as the bottom of that pocket is over 1" away from the top of the fretboard. (It may be possible to heat the bottom of the pocket from the inside at the same time as the fingerboard extension?)...----- or just use a better more serviceable neck joint.
3- Another possible neck removal method for this neck joint joint COULD BE (im thinking out loud here) to drill through the fret slots into either side of the pocket (on say 15th, 17th 19th frets) and add heat- i'm not sure what heat would be best with epoxy- the dry heat of the wire cutters or steam- but if steam it would cause a mess to the finish and inside as all the steam water would roll either into the guitar or down the heel on the outside. The water can be caught inside but the finish getting damaged from so much steam would be a major concern. This would require alot more heat/steam then taking of a typical dovetail and I would expect some damage to occur. If anyone wants to send me a seagull, i can test that method!
4- If that fails, unglue the fingerboard extension, undo the two (10mm) bolts and saw through the block under the fingerboard (don't saw into the fingerboard though.) Then reset the neck as per usual.
Sweetwater sell this guitar for about $1600 new- www.sweetwater.com/store/deta...
And $1000 second hand- reverb.com/p/seagull-artist-m...
If you enjoyed this video please SUBSCRIBE, LIKE and COMMENT to help my channel grow which helps me make more content
If this video helped you, consider saying thanks with a super thanks (just like giving a tip)
Trevor Gore/. Gerard Gilet Book (This is excellent)- goreguitars.com.au/the-book/
StewMac Neck Removal Jig- stewmac.sjv.io/WqL5YZ
Godin Guitars Acoustic Factory Tour (Premier Guitars)- • Godin Guitars Acoustic...
I created an extensive categorized list of lutherie Products I use and recommend for various aspects of the trade- check them out here- www.amazon.com/shop/beauhanna...
Stew Mac: stewmac.sjv.io/GjAMbk
Helpful Lists of products I use & recommend: www.amazon.com/shop/beauhanna...
⏰ Timecodes ⏰
00:00 Sassy intro
2:05 First Problem
3:50 Second Problem
5:09 Third Problem
6:15 Forth Problem
7:03 A Solution
7:53 Fifth Problem
9:48 Sixth Problem
12:50 Back Track
15:47 Glue up
16:52 Back to where it should have been at the start
All sound samples are improvised and don't use any audio effects to enhance tone.
~ I never promote products I don't personally use or believe the quality therein.
This video is not sponsored and may contain product affiliate links which means if you buy something Beau will receive a small commission at no extra cost to you.
#luthier #guitarmaker #beauhannam
~ Luthier of luxury heirloom quality Guitars and Ukuleles ~
WEBSITE: beauhannamguitars.com
FACEBOOK / beauhannamguitarsanduk...
INSTAGRAM: / beauhannamguitars

[@danieleidet7131]

I’ve had a Seagull rustic mini jumbo for 15 years and I live it. It takes a beating and keeps on ticking and still sounds great.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Nice. THey sound good

[@gunnar1797]

Coming from a Non luthiers perspective I play my seagull more than my Martin and my Taylor combined. It sounds and plays incredible and that’s the only thing that ever mattered to me

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Well said- I like the sound of this seagull and if it inspires you to pick it up then its a good guitar for you. the only trouble is if it ever needs a neck reset- but let your future self worry about that!! hahah

[@tdub2888]

I know that all to well. I have a Martin, two Seagulls and an Art & Lutherie. The cheapest Seagull get the lions share of my attention. Less than 400 bucks new and it had a mail in rebate for a Seagull gig bag. Entourage rustic burst I think. Even with the plywood back and sides this thing sounds fantastic, way better than it should. I've never had a setup done, it actually came damn near perfect for me.

[@tompelham7035]

Same !

[@FiddleSticks800]

Oh ya. The epoxy in the neckjoint is insanity. What years was this done? I bought a cedar top s6 from a pawn shop, and still love the sound of my guitar.

[@tompelham7035]

I purchased a Seagull six string acoustic to take along on extended road trip in order to leave the more expensive guitars safe at home. Turns out the Seagull gets more use than the rest! Now I find myself saying, why did I buy an expensive Taylor;)

[@amitnewton]

Thanks a ton, Beau!!! You have solved a problem that has been plaguing me for more than a year. I have an Art & Lutherie guitar - a 12-string - and for the life of me I could not understand what a block of wood was doing underneath the fretboard. It too is a bolt-on neck. It was in because the heel was lifting and the action was high. But even after sticking it down, the action remained high, so a neck reset is needed. Awrite then, where did my flush saw go???!!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Flush saw is the best way to take this off if needed (after I gluing the extension)

[@brandohhall]

Bro, i just found your videos and I cannot wait to go through all of your back catalog. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise. Incredible work, my friend.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks- unfortunately, they get worse and more boring as you go backward! Hahahha. I actually edit now! Hahah

[@peterflynn850]

Thank you for sharing this very clear and detailed repair. I especially appreciated the way you included background doc from the Gore text.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

I had to cuz I used to work at Gilet guitars with Gerard! Hahaha but Trevor’s neck system is really smart

[@tedcook8749]

Thanks Beau! Information like this will motivate me to keep going through the hassle of tuning down my guitars by several steps as much as possible for long periods- the advantage of having several other guitars to play! I had always wondered about the construction of these Godin family guitars- I am somewhat addicted to their cedar topped variants!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks- Yep- I liked this guitar and cedar always sounds good. It’s a good idea to detune every guitar but it’s a hassle and not many do it (I don’t)

[@drguitar9532]

I love it when I get a repair in that the owner and other shops have given up on. You have great persistance and patience (these attributes are needed for this line of work). Though the unseen part of the repair is not particularly pretty, the visible repair is and you have given the next repairman a fighting chance if other neck work needs to be done down the road. I recently removed and reset a dovetail neck joint that was epoxied on. It came out great, but it is always darkest before the dawn. Great video!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thank you so much- you describe repair work very well.

[@davidkeeley8473]

An excellent educational video Beau. I learned a new method. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Much appreciated!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thank you and my pleasure

[@bjfox620]

Thank you so much for making this video. I had a Seagull entourage mini-jumbo that I played every day for 3 years. It was so playable and responsive (seems like that might be due to the lack of solid construction around the neck joint). All in all, it took the slightest of tumbles and the entire neck joint/shoulder collapsed in on itself. I had never seen a guitar literally implode on itself in the way that guitar did and it’s frustrated me ever since. You’ve revealed a lot of what seems like it was the root cause. Thank you!!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks and my pleasure!. It can probably be fixed so it might be worth it.

[@TomboLP]

Just fantastic! Some great tips in here - especially the flaring of the neck block by a couple of grain lines. I don't do a lot of acoustic building at the moment, but will keep that in mind for the future. I see your comments sometimes in one of the online groups and they're always useful and to the point. The only thing I wish is that there was some sort of way for casual visitors to tell who is an experienced luthier and who isn't. For every person like you giving good, solid ways to address repairs, there are a dozen keyboard warriors who have probably never done anything more than restringing. They're the ones saying things like "use epoxy" or "that broken headstock needs splines" (most don't, and, in some cases, splines make things worse) ... or any one of a thousand other pieces of terrible advice that they've either picked up from someone else ignorant online or even simply just made up. Anyway, keep fighting the good fight. You are generous with your knowledge and do brilliant work!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks TomboLP. Yes, the trouble with online forums is everyone screaming into the dark and no one can tell who is what, unless you know there names already. It always makes me shiver when i see a national treasure luthier shot down on a forum for giving amazingly perfect advice by some fool. The internet.... Thanks again.

[@LucasRichardStephens]

Normand Boucher started as a window maker (I will relate my little anecdote, though I have no way of knowing if it is really true), he rented a Martin guitar for a short while, with the intention of seeing how it was made, with a view to having a go at building guitars himself. He dismantled the Martin in order to suss it out, then glued it all back together before returning the guitar. Not sure if he got away with it. I have an early all solid spruce Manik made by Norman (76 maybe), you would love the ingenious way the neck is bolted to the block, floating free of the top, really lovely sounding guitar. I had a visit from Dianne Cluck at one time (she plays a seagul guitar), her comment about my Manik was that it had the nicest bass E she had ever heard. I enjoyed your film very much and will check out the others on your channel, best wishes, Lucas.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks Lucas :)

[@short6691]

Very interesting. I will flair the neck to the top attachment area on my future Spanish heel ukulele builds for sure. Thanks!

[@livy1962]

Not enough stress in a uke with a Spanish heel to make an iota of difference.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Yep- thats what i do. Livy1962 points out there sin't enough string tension to warrant this and its true. But i do it anyway just cuz it is good building practice and I have always don't it on all my guitars.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

See my answer to Short6691

[@ArmandoVegaTV]

Interesting video... very informative. I can honestly say, I worked for Godin for 2 and 1/2 years (2019 - 2021) and never had any quality complaints. Our biggest issue was we couldn't keep them instock. I'm curious if the same construction is used on the Godin Acoustics and Art and Lutherie Acoustics? I walked away with 3 guitars (2 EG's and 1 AG) that I absolutely love. I also worked for Yamaha Guitars for over 15 years. So I love hearing this kind of deep level perspective on the repair side and learning how guitars do with age.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks. I think this epoxied on neck system is very strong and good (good as in it seems to do what was intended which is to minimize the body join hump) . My problem isn’t in the short term but in the long term 10-20-30 years when it needs a neck reset and the epoxy deep in the block makes it very difficult to do- so much so as to make a lot of these guitars either new necks or throw away- or slide guitars.

[@kylehuang6909]

@@BeauHannamGuitars The design make sound better?Why?Why they design this

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

@@kylehuang6909 I never said this neck design makes the guitar sound better. It does help the problem of body join hump.

[@WoodworkerDan]

Thank you for posting this. I used to do minor repair work for a music shop, and I worked on a very nice Seagull guitar that seemed to have a mind of its own. I would get it set up properly, only to have everything move days or weeks or months later. Here in Michigan things tend to move a bit with seasonal change, but this was extraordinary. After seeing your video, I think it might have been an issue with the neck joint. That would certainly explain what was happening.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Could be the epoxy didn’t set properly or it had shattered in the cold enough to move slightly- and slightly is enough to make a good setup bad.

[@J.C...]

I guess I don't get this. My guitars stay inside where it's always 74* F and a similar humidity level year round. They never "move". 🤷

[@trackie1957]

Great idea on flaring the extension to span some grain lines. The way it was done on this guitar basically created a pair of scissors for the top!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Yep - you see it a lot on guitars

[@paulinmt2185]

I'm an original owner of a "Performer CW Cedar GT QII" from around 2006 that I love to play finger-style on. I hope it's not a ticking time-bomb. Thanks for the detailed analysis and repair vid. Cheers from Montana!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

It’s only a problem hen it’s a problem- so enjoy it without worry until then 3)

[@chrisb3k1]

Great video, man. Hope you make more in the future. I used your ramping/bridge slotting video as a guide the first time I performed the technique on one of my guitars. Came out great! So thank you! And for the few who say the epoxy isn't a big deal: MANY techs and luthiers will straight out refuse to reset a post-2006 Seagull. It's a disaster.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks so much. Glad you liked the bridge slotting jig! Epoxy has its place in lutherie, but rarely for necks, although some high end luthiers do it (Ervin Somogyi and his guitars start at $35,000

[@chrisb3k1]

I read his book and must've missed that. Speaking of Somogyi, I know he does some post-voicing on the braces after the guitar is built. Do you work in a similar way? I always thought it would be cool to see a video of post-voicing on a guitar. Mainly because it makes great sense to me to have the entire guitar built, string it and let it sit, and THEN play it to find out what it does well and what doesn't do so well. Then proceed to voice it accordingly. I know it's a pain to work through the sound hole, but I find this approach might be what's best for the guitar. Thanks. @@BeauHannamGuitars

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

@@chrisb3k1 ​​⁠I usually don’t do post string up brace carving, (thankfully) I think Ervin has thin arms which make that job far easier- I had my arm in a 1935 Gibson most of yesterday and man it started to hurt my forearm !

[@chrisb3k1]

Yeah, I've heard it's a pain! And I know it's a very, very specific aspect of luthiery that not everyone does. Thanks for the reply, Beau. And I look forward to more videos! @@BeauHannamGuitars

[@TuckamoreDew]

This is sad news for me. I'm Canadian, and I've been happy that Seagull (and Godin more generally) have been able to carry on making decent guitars here in my own country when so much production has moved overseas. I have two Seagulls, a parlour made about a decade ago, and a very early one from 1989 that has been my workhorse since I got it second-hand in the late '90s. Both play well and sound good but I guess now I know which one's neck will be easier to repair if necessary. I hope the company adresses these issues in future manufacturing. I'm glad you were able to bring this particular guitar back to life. Thanks for the informative video.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks for watching :) keep on strumming :)

[@johndelconte9915]

I recently bought a couple of Norman Guitars made in Canada by Godin. They’re the best guitars I found for the price. I paid about 250.00 each The B18 is solid top cedar. The craftsmanship is very nice. I lowered the saddle and adjusted the truss rod and they play great. I’ll be giving them to my grandchildren and hope they put them cell phones down for a little while. I almost don’t want to give them away. Lol. At least It’s a good cause though. Canadian craftsmanship is top quality. Especially compared to lower priced guitars for beginners. They’re very playable.

[@PaisleyPatchouli]

Hi Beau, I’m an expat Canuck - lifetime pro musician that has been living in the States for around 40 years, mostly in Manhattan, but recently retired to the Southwest. I’ve owned more than a dozen Godin guitars of just about every brand name and variation, (6th Ave, S&P, Seagull, A&L, parlors, folks, dreds, 12 strings, etc… and have loved them all; however the only one I currently have in my stable is their A&L Ami nylon parlor size cedar/cherry that I got used (for $90!) and which I electrified with a homemade K&K type passive 12mm piezo-dot system that sounds lovely. In recent years all my other acoustics have been upgraded to Waterloo model WL-K by Collings - a double 0 parlor type based on Gibson’s rare Kel Kroydon, a depression-era catalog guitar; while my other Waterloo, a model WL-S is a single 0, 12 fret slothead which is based upon the 1920s OS Stellas. Waterloos are truly out of this world guitars - in another league than the Godins, (pricewise as well) but the Godins still have their place, and as a sometime teacher I always recommend any variant of the Godin family, especially if found used at a good price. I have an interesting (at least I think so) video on my channel of a mod that I was doing on Godin parlor guitars for my students and colleagues around 10 years ago; basically mounting a vintage 60s Danelectro lipstick pickup into the soundhole, getting vintage style magnetic (electric) tones that were very feedback resistant due to the small size and rigidity of the single 0. Check out that vid on my channel if it interests you at all. I was also offering a dual (stereo) system where I would install one of my homemade passive ’K&K style’ (multiple 12mm) piezo discs glued directly onto the bridge plate, and via dual 1/4” outputs (or even a 1/4” TRS) one could achieve incredible control over both a ‘raunchy blues to clean style’ single coil magnetic tone, and simultaneously a separately controlled, ultra transparent acoustic-piezo signal, and all in a very inexpensive, robust, and playable North American made instrument. (Often the whole package including the used guitar and all the parts and labor would be in the $600 range!) I’m rather shocked that Robert Godin would allow such a poorly conceived ‘upgrade’ to his line of otherwise very well designed guitars. I can’t understand why he would stoop to this… Thanks to your excellent video I will have to remember to avoid anything newer than 2006 in the future! The only Godin product that is currently on my want list is their “thinline style” MultiOud fretless electric oud. I’ve been an oud player, off and on, for decades, and am intrigued with this instrument, but where I live it is virtually impossible to find an example that I can play in advance of purchase, and they aren’t exactly cheap instruments… I do come with a lot of expectations though, having owned and played numerous other styles of oud over the years. Do you know if they are using this same ’new style’ of neck mount on their post 2006 instruments? (I’m not even sure if they offered this oud pre 2006?) Anyway, looking forward to viewing more of your vids!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Those Waterloo guitars are great. I'd love a real Kel Kroydon!- Have you heard of IRIS guitars, from Vermont?- very similar 1930's/40's reproductions like the waterloos. cool guitars. Id love to have one of those multiOuds! Its been 15 years since i've seen one and cant remember their neck join system. Looking at the pics on this site it looks like its a bolt on neck which is smart- www.thomann.ae/godin_multi_oud_encore_nylon.htm I'm not sure if thats an old or new pic but you could ask whoever you are buying from. I bet their are a few of these available secondhand.,

[@PaisleyPatchouli]

Wow, those IRIS guitars looks sweet, but also (like the Waterloos) on the pricey side. I love their 'a la carte' menu style for ordering custom features, what a great idea!@@BeauHannamGuitars

[@longjonwhite]

Great job mate! As an old Brit, I enjoy the way you alternate between Imperial and metric measurements! I still describe rough sizes in the old money, easier for me to visualise, but I use mm for any cutting.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Hahaha- yep. I swing back and forth in measurement style as my Brain deems 🧠

[@peterfredrickmeyer]

Nicely done Beau

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks

[@mikepj1025]

Super informative. Thanks for sharing. Love my Seagull Maritime SWS.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks for watching :)

[@JoeR203]

Back in the 90s, I used to go to my local guitar store and play the spruce top Seagull. I couldn't afford to buy it so I just went every week to visit it. 🙂

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Free guitar! Hahah

[@geesonnit]

I’ve had this model for about 6 or 7 years or so now! It’s a 2002 model. I love it! It’s by far the best sounding acoustic I’ve played by a country mile! I’m so glad it’s not a later model. Thanks for your video!! Kind Regards, Gee

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks - I would recommend the pre 2006 Godins if you plan to keep it for a few decades

[@mikeellis4345]

Wow all that work .. for a seagull guitar! Fascinating stuff!

[@doglover31418]

Just what I was thinking. A luthier this good is going to cost quite a bit to do all that work. I'd buy a Martin or a Gibson.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

I'm a martyr! hahhahah- it felt good to get this guitar going again

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

I'm a martyr! hahhahah- it felt good to get this guitar going again

[@iancallard3561]

Very interested to see this. I have a pre-2006 Seagull, and it's been great. I had it properly set up - best money I ever spent.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Nice! A good setup is everything

[@troyclayton]

Thanks for the video. I've lived in New Hampshire and Maine for most of the last 40 years. I saw a lot of Seagulls in the late 80-90's, and I saw a high level of variability among them. I knew a guy who owned a store who ended his contract with them in the early 90's over it being a crapshoot if the guitar delivered was similar to the last/next. That was a long time ago, I could only hope they became consistently better. My introduction to the brand was a woman who had a fabulous Seagull, and I initially liked them just because she made marvelous music on one.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks. Ive only seen the ones made from around 2005 to now - I like them when they are good- but this neck joint isn’t foward thinking

[@MariUSukulele]

Interesting! DANKE for the enlightenment. SHOUT OUT fröm Germany 🇩🇪

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

ACHTUNG BABY! - its the only thing i can say in German, thanks to U2 ahhahaha

[@user-uv5pl2gf3t]

I truly enjoyed your outrage and learned alot about my Seagull. Thanks for this:)

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Hahahh - just want to make the world a better place less full of throw away things.

[@sculptureshard377]

Excellent video. Thank you. I have learned from this

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks 😊

[@onesource9527]

Nice job. Problem solving is always interesting to watch. I agree with you...never epoxy a neck joint. At the end the instrument sounds pretty good which reinforces my general view of Godin instruments. It was good however, to learn of the models and years to avoid if considering a Seagull purchase.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks 😊

[@IIImobiusIII]

Have you ever looked into Stereotomy? The architectural practice of joining irregular wooden surfaces. It's a beautiful French tradition that made me wonder what Les Compagnons would have envisioned as a neck joint. What we have with most cheap guitars is architectural Brutalism. Look up Stereotomy, The Alchemy of Solids.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

That sounds really interesting. I’ve never heard of it before now. Thanks for mentioning it

[@bvs5164]

Great vid, hope Godin is watching. Any idea if a 2017 LaPatrie Concerto QI will have the same neck joint? Thank you.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks. I think all their acoustics have this joint , so yes.

[@carloslema5400]

Beau, thanks for sharing your repair chronicles. Thank you, Google, just what I needed. A few questions: aside from the heel support fanning out and connecting it to the transverse brace, and achieving better tolerances, what are your thoughts on the whole bolt-on versus traditional approach (Tenon/Dovetail and fretboard, all glued)? The reason I ask is that I am a guitar maker working on a bolt-on neck design. I am planning on using a tenon & extension under the fretboard but without the shims (Taylor has the patent on the adjustable neck). I am accounting for the neck angle and aiming for much tighter tolerances (using a CNC). I was curious about the bolt-on approach for its repairability and the fact that it provides more robust support. I am hoping it could withstand the forces of 7 & 8 steel strings. Any thoughts are much appreciated. Thank you again!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

I will publicly say that there is no tone difference between a dovetail and a bolt on- assuming both systems have the neck fitting to the body well. If the woodworking is good, the tone should be too. Talyor and Collings both use bolt on necks and i'm certain they did would have done tests to see/hear if one system was better over the other. Do you have the trevor Gore book I show in the video??? I think you will be interested in his neck attachment system (like Taylor but different, no shims)- i added a link in the description.

[@carloslema5400]

Thanks for your response, much appreciated. Yes, I am familiar his books, but don't have them $$$$, but lots of great knowledge in them-Falcate bracing, nut compensation etc. This video shows his approach kzbin.info/www/bejne/hILYYot9o7udoqc. I come from the world of test, measure and learn. From a CNC operations point of view, his order of operations makes sense. Circling back to your video, you summed it up quite nicely, "If the woodworking is good, the tone should be too," and I would add, "and it should last for a lifetime" (of the instrument that is). @@BeauHannamGuitars

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Im sure you would like these books- stewmac used to sell them and you could get a 50% discount which made the books a good price, but they seem to no longer sell them.

[@DjNikGnashers]

Really interesting video, thank you. I'm not sure how the neck on my Lowden 32se is joined, but from the reputation for quality that Lowden have, I can only assume it is a better solution than the one Seagull use.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

I think Lowden's use a dovetail.

[@NBGuitarRepair]

It is a Dovetail but with no gap! All 3 sides of the tail are glued flush, really difficult to remove. I had one that came to me with the neck broken off and exposed this. I had to use an oscillating saw to cut the front of the dovetail away from the block. @@BeauHannamGuitars

[@Chckyrsix]

Beau needs a lot more recognition than he gets. One of the best luthiers out there.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Oh thanks - I’m getting there slowly but surely.

[@scottyhughes9179]

Beau, thanks for the video... I have owned an early mahogany neck SEAGULL S6 since about 1983, possibly slightly earlier, I cannot recall the precise year I received it... It has never given me one issue, it is still my goto guitar for bashing about while camping, or playing a gig on stage, the tone is amazing (I also own other guitars worth 10 times the price)... I own a LAPATRIE nylon string guitar, which I love as well... and for years I sold the very well made and stable NORMAN acoustics in a prominent music store here in Canada. They all withstand the beating and the wildly shifting weather temperatures in Canada.... Robert Godin knows his stuff. And to say 'Made in Canada' on a product makes me want to support that company.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

It feels good to play a guitar made in your country. Australia has Maton which are pretty good. Sounds like you have an amazing Seagull geetar- it’s also nice when , like you said they can handle the local weather. All the very best and keep on strummin!

[@czgunner]

Awesome video. I had heard about this issue for years and have always avoided buying a Godin product. I have a buddy with several and they play and sound nice. His 12 string needs a neck reset though....

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks - hopefully the 12 string is a pre 2006

[@billcrook9602]

Fascinating and informative. Thank you.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks 😊 my pleasure

[@daviddebord6539]

My S6 cedar will be together long after a lot of my others ( Martin included) have twisted beyond repair. Love it. Doesn’t like coated strings.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

It may indeed last longer then the others for a neck reset but it will eventually need one.

[@jamescarid3448]

Very interesting. I have a Seagull Maritime 12 dated 07; hope it does not run into neck issues. Cheers.

[@derekfromtauranga6012]

As a small volume guitar maker I’ve been aware that the neck to body joint is a weakness on many factory guitars. They are simply not strong enough in this area and the body deforms on the fretboard extension area. You can test this by holding the body tightly against yourself and pulling and pushing on the neck and there is often a reasonable amount of movement as witness by the change in string height. Couple this with the bridge tilting forward and pulling up it’s not long before the action is unplayable and the saddle is at its lowest point. I’ve long believed in a big neck block and heavy transverse brace to stiffen that area. I found through experience that you need a stiff guitar body that resists deformation as if it’s not stiff enough it will accerbate the deformation and subsequent lifting of the body at the bridge area. So having highly scalloped braces takes away strength from the sound board and adds to the whole deformation problem. I think Taylor have probably the best practical solution with the tapered shims to easily deal with the deformation problem that will occur on every acoustic guitar over time.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Yep and yep and yep

[@jguitar23]

Wow, great explanation of the issues❤

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thank you :)

[@smandez2023]

I’ve heard about this issue from the forums, but you really demonstrated very well what is being talked about. It’s really unfortunate that these become “throw away” guitars. And, as word gets out, many luthiers will refuse or refer repairs of these types? As cost encroaches on the actual value of the guitar. Do you know if this joint is used on the upper end models too, like on the D’Agostino guitars?

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks. I'm not certain what instruments have this but I presume all their acoustics regardless of price (this guitar cost $1600 new). I'm not sure if their archtops have this neck joint. (I should call them and ask so I can include it in the description!)

[@chrisva4268]

Another masterclass! I've long recommended Seagull, since I love my Maritime SWS Mini Jumbo, one of the most resonant instruments I've ever played. It's rained stable for a decade, so I hope I'll never have to pop the neck off I became enamored with Godin because of their factory tour, it seemed they took a rather scientific and precision approach to solving construction problems. Turns out that was a bit of a farce, epoxy has no place in musical instruments that will need future repair.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Fear not. These are good guitars until they need a neck reset

[@dalepiwek]

I did a compensated intonation job on a cheap gull, it turned out great

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Nice- it feels good to fix things hey!

[@dalepiwek]

Yeah man. It's the only guitar I've ever played that can take a cheap capo on any fret and remain perfectly in tune

[@richardroyster6631]

Do the Godin guitars have the same issue? I bought a 90's seagull that was highly recommended, I kept if for three weeks. It was not for me although it was a mid-level guitar, the ease of playing the chime, even the looks just did not do it for me. I went to Takamines for about 10 years and then on to Alvarez, Martin and Guild guitars. I must share I had a similar problem with other cheap guitars and my Gibson SJ Deluxe 1968.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

I only know that all Godin made acoustic guitars (patrick&simon, Norman, La patrie, seagull- that I know of) after 2006 have this. I’m not sure about their arch top guitars like 5th ave guitars. I presume any electric guitars they do with set necks (not bolt on necks) are epoxied in but I don’t know if they even do set neck electrics.

[@wadewelch3798]

In the 80's I got a Seagull guitar and played it up until 2 years ago and would still be playing it today if it didn't get knocked down and broke the neck. Best acoustic guitar I ever played. I miss it lots.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Its painful when they break after so long- Sorry to hear it. Maybe its repairable ?

[@Derek-rv3ee]

Thank you for recording this, I've been talking about this for years. I have had a few Godin acoustic guitars, still have two. I didn't know about the epoxy until after I purchased the past one. One of my Godins does in fact have a sunken neck that I cannot get repaired due to the epoxy. I don't want to claim warranty and send it away for replacement because of the sentimental value. Shame on Godin honestly, they're making throwaway guitars.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Sorry you got that problem. If you send it back you will get the same guitar body but with a totally new neck- I think they saw them off and replace. Better that then a non playable guitar.

[@Derek-rv3ee]

@@BeauHannamGuitars they told me they just replace the guitar with something the same

[@traildoggy]

I have an Art and Lutherie 12 string. It's a really special guitar, warmer and not as bright as most 12 strings are. I got it used for under $200. A few times when I was broke I thought of selling it but as soon as I play it I change my mind and realize I'm probably never finding another solid top 12 at this price. Was just playing it this morning actually. I've had a few Larrivee guitars too. Mighty fine guitar craft up north there in Canada.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

A good 12 string for $200 is a huge deal!- hold on to it!

[@greatkingrat]

I have a 2021 Taylor 210CE. When I first got it (second hand) it needed a neck reset (high action). Due to the bolt on neck and the shims this was easy for the Taylor guy to fix and now it’s beautiful. I feel your pain with this one….I must say, though, I was intrigued that you’re using imperial measurements, being an Aussie.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Hahahah- I go back and forth with measurements in Lutherie. It’s best to use both I think

[@nickp4872]

Does the Simon & Patrick Woodland Pro Mini Jumbo guitar have the same neck build? I'm considering buying a 10 year old one and I wouldn't like to run into weird problems with it.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

I think all acoustics made after 2006 have this neck joint

[@frankprice8676]

Very interesting. I've mostly been a Japanese Takamine and (earlier) High end Ovation player and found those neck joints to be pretty solid. I've had my eye on seagull recently and like the Artist and Maritime models in particular. I assume this issue with the neck you've described could happen in both Artist and Maritime ? And I'm guessing top wood species wouldnt be a factor (Ie, Spruce or Cedar, doesnt matter, could still happen) ? Thx !

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks for watching- as far as I know it’s all models from 2006 on. Top wood doesn’t matter although spruce typically is stronger along the grain which is a factor for neck resets but a reset is only usually needed after 20-30 years.

[@red58impala]

I've always wanted a Seagull guitar, but after seeing how they are constructed, I'd be hesitant to buy one. Thanks for creating this video. It taught me a lot.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

They sound good (I play it at the end cuz I was having fun) but the neck repairability is rather non existent

[@jeffs.987]

Get an older one which will have the better neck joint if you like the sound of that particular one. I have a 2001 which I gig with regularly. Never a problem so far!

[@Workingcockers]

I have 2014 Seagull Perfomer series in the flame maple. It’s a fine guitar and I play it a lot, however, it does have a higher neck action than my Martin HD28. I play them both at out equally. I like the neck on the Seagull better than the neck on my much more expensive Martin. For a $1000 guitar the Seagull has been great, especially since I found it used/mint condition for $400. Does it sound like my Martin? NO, but it still sounds great and plays great. I’m thinking about adjusting the neck to see if I can lower the action a bit.

[@livy1962]

I've got 4 Godin's and a couple of Art and Lutherie's and all have been the most bulletproof and reliable guitars I've owned. Don't let one angry man steer you away from the best guitar value on the planet.

[@livy1962]

These are easy adjustments that any player can (and SHOULD) make. Don't go in blind though. Lots of helpful videos on YT. Like any math problem, order of operations is key.@@Workingcockers

[@UncleKennysPlace]

I had a Signet guitar (sold by Selmer, in the 1970s in the USA) that needed the neck reset. I spent a lot of time trying to get that thing off the proper way. But it turns out it has the same neck joint as the Seagull-parallel with the neck-so I just put the body on a shelf after I finally removed the neck. Still have it. Certainly it's a very strong way to attach a neck, but not so good if you need to adjust it, and I didn't want to put in the time, as it wasn't an expensive piece.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Yep- this system works well until you need to take the neck off… then ARGH

[@emilychristoff9404]

Good for Mr Godin, I really Liked my Godin acoustic bass, but returned because of that hump…I tried everything, it was used and it had a factory hardshell case. I hope that 12th fret hump was fixed…my was before that issue fixed. I still think they are lovely guitars.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

They largely fixed the hump (short term problem), but swapped it for a long term problem (not being able/designed to reset the neck which every guitar eventually needs)

[@AudioAtmos]

I know this question might be hard to answer, but is this construction method used on their 12 strings? I have a 12 string Seagull that was my brothers who no longer is alive. It’s from right around the 2005 or 2006 era. I will need to find out the model and year for sure. It always seemed to be a decent guitar with the neck being good. I have always worried about it because it being not a very expensive guitar (I think it was about $800 USD at the time) and also a 12 string. I keep it tuned to Eb. Thanks for any info and great video.👍

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

To my understanding, all acoustic guitars made after 2006 have this neck join- i'm not sure about their archtops like the 5th Ave though. Its only a problem if (when) the guitar needs a neck reset. It might be easier to take the fingerboard off then attempt to take the neck off like I somehow managed to do- but the whole area was already damaged from humidity issues so that helped me alot.

[@AudioAtmos]

@@BeauHannamGuitars Thanks for replying.

[@57briben]

Hi, I was just thinking maybe the easiest way would be to flush cut the fretboard from the top and unbolt the heel. I'd leave the tenon that is epoxied in where it is. You could then shim/reglue extension & bolt back on as needed for the reset. There really is no need to remove the epoxied in wood. Your thoughts? ( a GT in Canada for about 40 yrs).

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

See number 4 of the the description. But don’t saw through the fingerboard as you loose a lot of rigidity

[@57briben]

Oh right, thanks. Godin never should have changed their bolt on . I've reset several over the years easily but never this epoxied version. I think Robert Godin needs a look at your video :) @@BeauHannamGuitars

[@geesonnit]

Please make a follow up video in relations to the positives of Seagul Artist Mosaics in comparison to other top end brands out there! These are top quality guitars! Absolutely beautiful instruments.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

If I get another in for repair I’ll do that :)

[@topgunthomas3472]

I have a 1999 S6…sounds fantastic and has weathered well.

[@Sawlon]

I've owned a classical since the 80s and no problems. My wife owns two steel strings from the early 90s and no problems. Best guitar for the money! Also worked in a local music store for 36 years and sold so many I can't count, with no problems.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Guitars ain’t a problem till they are a problem. But all yours will be easy to reset the neck :)

[@Sawlon]

@@BeauHannamGuitars I like necks with truss rods in classicals. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pYLYd5eagc6mn5Y

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Me too

[@rudybarajas4159]

Thank you for this video . I had no idea and learned something new .

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks for watching

[@TexRenner]

I have always liked Seagulls, but I wound up owning a Breedlove because I found a pretty good deal on a used one. That guitar you fixed sure does sound good!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Any good guitar is a good guitar :) I liked the sound of this one

[@pastyman001]

Art and Luthiery was a version of Simon and Patrick where there was a mark on the top wood and the top was coloured to hide that. Seagull was same guitar with different headstock and sold through a rival distributors. I think Norman was similar. These are crudely made mass produced guitars where they vary a lot one to another, so if you look through 30-50, you might find one decent one.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Interesting thanks

[@stuco]

I get the importance of repairability and I've done neck resets before (dovetail only). In the USA you can get used seagulls for $200-$250. Neck resets generally start at $500 (I get it'd be less if they made an easier to adjust bolt on, fair point). I'd just get another seagull. Side note but the entourage rustic is the best sounding readily available guitar in that used price range in my opinion. Made in North America, not perfect but there's a lot to like there. Tiny headstock, big tone! : ) Nice work and it's interesting to see what's involved in resetting one of these.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks/ this guitar costs $1600 new but on those cheaper ones, this neck system makes them a throwaway guitar which is a shame

[@joesteel3459]

Sure but with guitars, there is at least a little “you get what you pay for” factor. I’m guessing the $200-250 used price range you’re quoting is for an Entourage, which is their entry level guitar at $500-600 new. Most people eventually move beyond that entry level and want more from a guitar. I haven’t seen any of their midrange guitars, even something like the sws maritime guitars even remotely close to the $200 price point

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

@@joesteel3459 this retails for $1600

[@joesteel3459]

@@BeauHannamGuitars oh, sorry, I was replying to the OP in the comment. I guess my point was, just buying an entry level seagull because it’s cheap, instead of repairing a neck isn’t a solution for a lot of players because they want a better sounding guitar anyway.

[@shroompicn-shrooman]

I own a first run of Seagull with Cherry body and cedar sound board. I didn't know why my neck came loose . When I finally figured out how the neck was bolted on . I took the neck off and glued the whole thing with fish glue. That was probably 15-20 years ago. And never had a problem with it yet . I have had some slight swelling at the bridge and that will be fixed next with a bridge doctor. What i didn't like was the bolts were covered with a sticker so i had no idea they were there .

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Bolts - Collings hides them the best- no sticker but plugs that when the eye runs over the headblock on the inside, you can easily miss they are there.

[@shroompicn-shrooman]

@@BeauHannamGuitars that sounds special to work on lol 😆

[@alanmcdonald7390]

It sounds like my 2001 S&P might outlive my 2020 seagull concert grand. For what it's worth, both are still great playing and sounding guitars.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Seagulls sound good to me- I enjoyed playing this one at the end of the video. Don't worry about all this until you need a neck reset.

[@Dodoskee]

It's fascinating to hear an artisan who knows guitars inside out describe his work. Thanks

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks so much

[@2bookoo4u]

I was going to buy a Seagull, but after watching this I'm going to get a Martin or a Taylor. Leaning towards the MIA Taylor. Very informative video. Thank you.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks for watching :)

[@BandTogetherWithDomenick]

The Norman brand is called such because its originator was Normand Boucher. Robert Godin used to distribute his line, and then got into the guitar-making business himself in the later 70's, hiring Normand's son, who designed the first Seagulls. Later, when Norman ran into difficulties in the 80's, Godin took on the Norman brand as well. Normand's nephew is Robin Boucher, who you may have heard of. Edit to add, I bought my Norman B20 around 1992 and is in awesome shape, considering I've played it in the sweltering heat and shivering cold.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Cool history- I didn’t know any of it. Thanks

[@philipaustin6042]

Hi beau....i just bought an older cedar top gull. Im poised to get a pro set-up to suit my alt tuning quirks. I was told its an older gull, not sure the year. When did they begin the disastrous epoxy solution on their necks?.hoping my new little girl predates. Thnx!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Hi- they started 2006, but there might be a few of the later months of 2005

[@philipaustin6042]

@@BeauHannamGuitars cool, I think mine predate this atrocity. I'll check. Thnx.

[@3cardmonty602]

Good thing I sold my Seagull a couple of years ago. It was a decent guitar, but I traded up for a Gibson HP415W, and I love it.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Nice

[@KBUlrich135]

I was just about to buy a 12 Seagull that looks very similar to the one you worked on from Facebook Marketplace so I'm very happy to have seen your video. I'll pass on it now. Thank you!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

It might be totally fine for decades - you never know.

[@111street]

Simplier design could be good. In this case the normal dovetail is better. You can use epoxy on the dovetail. Ive applied wax on the heel block, but epoxy on the dovetail, drive in the dovetail leaving appx 1/8th of inch out/ loose,until the glue hardens alittle, and then drive the joint in the rest, making the joint strong.And add a wood screw from the inside to keep the neck in. Point is the wax holds to one side epoxy holds the otherside, making reset of the neck later possible.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Or, just use water soluble wood glue …

[@SportingDrivesinColorado]

Hey, Beau! I thought I had subscribed long ago. You know what sucks about this? This looks just like my guitar! The logo does look like a newer model. I play mine hard. Now you have me worried about rocking out. :D

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

hahaha- don't worry- it will be a problem eventually, but its probably a decade or two away- So play away! Thanks so much for subscribing :)

[@jonathansinger3818]

When I bought my first Seagull, it was their top of the line with rosewood back and sides. I think it was about $1200. (1990's?) I absolutely loved the sound of that guitar and would put it up against any other guitar out there. But then I started having problems with it needing constant truss rod adjustments. Eventually the truss rod failed. Knowing that trying to fix it would cost me close to what a new one would cost, I ripped it apart and then threw it away. So your opinion that it was a throwaway guitar, I would agree with. Some time later I purchased a Taylor. I paid almost twice the price, and no, it doesn't sound as nice as my Seagull did. But I still have it after 20+ years of use...with no problems.

[@IndigoJo]

Is this neck joint used on other guitars from the Godin stable, such as Godin branded electrics?

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

I’m not sure about the electrics- the ones I remember seeing back in 2010 were bolt on (I think?) it’s been to long. All their acoustics seem to have this joint- but I’m not sure about the archtops like the 5th ave.

[@YukonStrings]

@@BeauHannamGuitars The 5th Ave has a convoluted dovetail. It's a butt joint with a plywood dovetail screwed and glued on to it, attached to the guitar with this same epoxy. At least that's what it is on mine, which is an early one.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

HHmm- interesting- good to know! thanks

[@davidharris7431]

Thanks Beau , I will be using your headblock design , is that your idea to taper the shape so it runs across some grain preventing cracking ? That's genius mate . Consider it stolen forthwith . Peace ✌.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Hahah/ thanks- not my idea. I do the same with the bridge wings and any braces like the center top brace on a classical guitar- I angle it so it crosses a few grain lines.

[@davidharris7431]

@@BeauHannamGuitars Yeah , I do it with bridge plates and bridges but never thought about the blocks . I suppose it could be used anywhere the sides run parallel to the grain . Still genius albeit a bit obvious . Peace ✌

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

@@davidharris7431 thanks- yes- just never run a bit of wood along the grain of other bit of wood (especially a thin guitar top)

[@frederickklinge2885]

I have a Godin Motif (nylon string parlor). Do you see the same problem with their nylon string guitars?

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

I think they all have this if made after 2006. But it’s not a problem until it’s a problem and classical guitars have less string tension then a steel String so you might be are for decades or always :)

[@frederickklinge2885]

@@BeauHannamGuitars Thanks Beau! Neck is currently just fine on my Motif. Light gauge strings sound best, so I'm not putting much tension on the neck relative to a steel string guitar. Thanks for your insight!

[@rjlchristie]

Jose Ramirez lll would not glue right to the edge of the fingerboard when gluing the fingerboard to the body By leaving 5 to 8mm on either side of the board free of glue any split of the spruce top will likely take place under the fingerboard close to the line where the glue ceases. I suppose the same could be applied to the block/fingerboard glue face, eliminating need for flaring.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Interesting- I didn’t know that

[@HomoChomsky]

Well, damn. I have a Norman ST-40 Folk that I really enjoy playing, at least I won't be surprised when the neck gives out.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

NORMAN! Don’t worry it should take a few decades :)

[@jinbyun]

I have experienced 3 acoustic guitars of the godin family. Seagull cedar top, s&p songsmith and 5th ave archtop. All except the archtop had the neck problem.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Some of these are great- I used to love playing the 5th avenue guitar with overdrive - great sound!!

[@WindOfTheWisp_Janine]

Wow...very interesting...I belong to a couple of Seagull forums & actually hadn't heard about this. Maybe because most folks haven't needed a neck reset on their Seagulls yet. I own several...bought quite a few back a few years ago when many places were selling them at great prices. I especially love the mini-jumbos - very comfortable to play, but one of mine has developed a crack on the top, even though I keep all of my guitars in their cases & my guitar room is humidified. I've seen several folks on the forums complaining about their Seagulls cracking...wondering how common the problem is or if it's just from most folks not keeping their instruments properly humidified. From what I understand, cedar is more prone to cracking than spruce.😥😥

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Hi- thanks for watching. Any guitar with any species of top (or back/sides) can crack. If not a blunt force trauma is always humidity, and 99% it’s dryness. Some guitars are better at withstanding humidity dryness and it depends on the wood batch at the factory, the season it was built and how it has been stored over the decades. Seems a bit strange to say that but it seems that be true. Some guitars crack like twigs, some can withstand the apocalypse! Few free to post this video to any seagull forums. The problem I talk about In this video, fortunately, isn’t a problem until it’s a problem. The big neck insert they use over the body joint in the neck is a great idea and it does what it is ment to- stop the body joint hump- it’s just a very bad idea to epoxy it in as it makes neck resets (which ALL and EVERY guitar eventually need) very difficult to fix (not impossible). Apparently the Godin factory just saw the neck off, clean the pocket and grab a new neck- that’s not very good for most people. I don’t like that throw away mentality. But the good new is they are good guitars until they aren’t but that takes decades :)

[@nevarmaor]

I have a Seagull Natural Elements guitar. I love playing it because of the wider neck. It's 1-7/8 at the nut. Now I hope it never needs a neck reset.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Don't worry about it till its time to worry about it :)

[@trackie1957]

You could make a replacement block in two halves with a gap in the center for the rod. The two halves would mate perfectly with the sides, so no need for shims. Make them a bit tall and scrape/plane down to the top and Bob's your uncle!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Norman’s my uncle! Hahah- there is maybe 5-6mm of wood on the bottom of that block which adds structural integrity to the headblock so I’d make a whole one and route (or chisel) a new truss rod channel in rather then two halves.

[@cmcg5788]

I just purchased a new Godin Folk solid mahogany acoustic. Everything seems fine: playability, intonation, fretwork, etc. The only thing I noticed after playing it for a few days is that there is a very fine gap where the heel joins the body on the player's side (not on the other side, though). It's widest by the fretboard, where I can slide a feeler gauge into it of .0025" and then gets narrower from there until sealing up completely about half-way down. Should I be worried? I like everything else about the guitar so far, so I'm hesitant to exchange, not knowing what I'll get. Any professional opinion would be helpful, if possible. Thanks.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

0.025" gap is alot. If you bought it new its still under warranty and id ask for it to be repaired- Its either the bolt wasn't tightened enough at the factory (doubtful), the bolt has come loose over time (less doubtful but the gap would be even on both sides if this was the case) or the wood of the heel has twisted a bit. could be strange body movement too. But take it back or to a luthier who can give an in person assessment. But the gap shouldn't be there.

[@cmcg5788]

Actually, it’s .0025”-ie - between two and three thousandths of an inch. Would that still be cause for concern? Many thanks!

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

@@cmcg5788 0.002” isn’t much- I mention at the end that Seagull use wood putty to fill any gaps at the heel so some may have just fallen out. It’s just aesthetic so don’t worry.

[@cmcg5788]

Cool! Thanks alot!@@BeauHannamGuitars

[@trackie1957]

@@cmcg5788 Don't you mean "thanks a slot"?

[@MegaTerryNutkins]

Builders/luthiers should definitely show more consideration regarding future repairability of their guitars, a neck reset is probably going to be inevitable somewhere down the line and anti consumer choices such as this make the brand one to steer well clear of for me. It's a real shame as two of my favourite acoustics were an old Seagull S6 and the astonishingly good Art et Lutherie I picked up for pocket change.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Yep- All guitars will need a neck reset be it 10-20-30 years. If i saw a cheap one of these id buy it but the ones made pre 2006 are better as their necks can be reset. (so can these new ones but you almost have to take the fingerboard off to get the neck off...

[@domdimensions9219]

This is a real shame. I really like the sound and feel of simon and patrick guitars, but this seems like a terrible choice by the designers and now knowing this, I think I will reconsider purchasing one. Should I let this problem affect my decision to purchase a godin guitar? I want to get a nice solid top guitar, and I might go with a yamaha, as they seem to provide really good value for money. And I think if in some decades it needs a neck reset, it would be a lot easier to do on a yamaha, as they use a normal dovetail joint, and I'm pretty sure they don't use epoxy resin. What solid top guitars would you reccomend on a budget? Like for around 600 dollars or less?

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Well, for $600 or less a neck reset isn't the issue because no one resets a neck on a $600 guitar as $600 is close to a neck reset cost (typically with new frets, nut, saddle, setup). I really don't know the cost of new guitars as I don't go into guitar stores. Waterloo, IRIS and good but I have no idea what they cost. Recording King had some good ones last time i played one but i cant remember the price.

[@fixitmyself]

Ive got 3 of them and so far so good except for the tuners, but Seagulls are not expensive guitars and this must have been an expensive repair. Was it worth it?

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

This guitar cost about $1600 new, so it was worth it

[@78tag]

...same problem, the tuners became un-tuneable. What did you replace them with if I may ask?

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

@@78tag I didn’t replace the tuners on this- I think Godin website sells replacement tuners which would be good as all the screw holes would line up.

[@ASPEDBUSDRIVER1]

Did you finish building that uke?

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Not yet

[@StepanVasylyshyn]

Very good job! Thank you for the video. Like X-ray.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks and my pleasure

[@iamanovercomer3253]

I was going to buy a Seagull PERFORMER CW CH BURNT UMBER PRESYS II Right before the plandemic and I was told that it was a 2 year wait and the price doubled. So I ended up buying a Martin instead for $600 and it's not a bad guitar. I usually play my strat . It is sad that the quality went down and the price went up so much. Thanks for the information

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

There are so many good options under $1000- and all the rest have the option of a neck reset down the road, but not godin

[@medley4570]

I was a big Godin fan, taking a certain pride in this being a Canadian brand. I bought an Artist in 2004 and it was a lovely guitar. I bought a few other styles over the years, but when I saw Robert's plant walkthrough video that you showed a clip of, where he's describing with pride how they epoxy their necks in place I decided they weren't for me. Sold them all haven't bought one since. When I saw the title of your video about the "hidden problem with Seagull guitars", I thought to myself, "I bet he's going to talk about how Godin uses epoxy to set their necks". 'Nuff said. I can't believe Mr. Godin thought this was a good idea.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Yer.... the system is good as it does stop (I should say minimize) what they say it stops- the body join hump. But they should do what Taylor do and make it repairable

[@lawsiesteve1649]

I have had a Seagull S6 for 30 years. I had to get the neck reset within 2 months of owning it. The explanation I got at the time was that due to the eco laws(in Canada) that had just come in, they had to change to a different type of glue which turned out to be a problem. The glue couldn't handle humid environments or hot environments over 35 degrees celcius.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

That’s a bad decision- let’s use glue that dosnt glue! Sorry to hear it

[@lawsiesteve1649]

That was before Godin bought the company too@@BeauHannamGuitars

[@michaelj3414]

I currently have an 87 Minstrel. Laminated wild cherry, maple neck and rosewood fingerboard with a squared headstock with a Seagull decal on it. An inquiry to Godin tells me that it was basically and entry level S6 with a laminate top instead of the solid cedar top. I've let it dry out pretty bad over the few years I've had it and it developed a fair sized belly. Asking around I was told it wouldn't be worth fixing it because of the laminate and to play it until you can't. I love the neck though and decided to take it on myself and I'm no luthier. I've soaked the neck with lemon oil and it's currently sitting in a case with some homemade humidifiers. Gonna work on that for about a week and see what happens. Maybe a bridge doctor to get it the rest of the way and keep it from happening again. We'll see. Curious what you might do or suggest in this senario ? I also live on the Quebec border, not far from where this was built and theres some kind of nostalgia there for me.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Don’t over humidify it to try to puff it out again. Just humidify as best you can to 45% ish

[@michaelj3414]

@@BeauHannamGuitars Thank you for your reply and suggestion. It's very appreciated.

[@agenuineg]

SO enlightening. SO helpful. (And SO validating, since I imagined that I was the only one who noticed that neck joint section of the factory tour video.) With my own Artist-Peppino model from 2010, someone on some forum somewhere suggested that the use of epoxy didn't apply to their high end guitars. Yet, here you have an Artist model as well . . . Just wondering if the fingerboard extension really has to be glued down. Aren't Taylor's free-floating or whatever you call it? Thanks for the great video and for being so generous with your time going through all these comments.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Thanks for watching. Yes- Taylor and Trevor gore (and others) do almost the same thing but bolt it down, instead of epoxying (or any glue). It’s a good neck joint but Godin ruins it with epoxy.

[@agenuineg]

So, if you don't mind my asking, did you absolutely have to glue down the fretboard extension in this case?

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

Good question. I didn't in this case, but i could have made it into a full bolt on (like Taylor) by adding threaded insert (1 or 2) to the block with the bolt coming up through the headblock extension inside. That would be an extra few hours work though. @@agenuineg

[@13coyote13]

I'll definitely be taking a closer look at the 2003 for sale in my area as opposed to buying a newer one.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

If i had the choice id get an older one but it may have more of a hump at the body join which is what they invented this neck joint to minimize that (and that part of the system works- but at an expense)

[@13coyote13]

@@BeauHannamGuitars Yes it is quite a nightmare, I love the Seagull guitars but don't want to have to get a neck reset which would cost about the same as the price of the guitar here in Canada, I have really taken a shine to the Seagull Coastline Slim CW Spruce which is a solid wood guitar. I just did another set up on my Fender Hot Rod acoustic which has the rising belly so I run at about 4 thou neck relief without any buzz and have around 2.2mm low E and 2mm high E. Slotted the pin holes a little to get a better string angle and it sounds great. Just won't last forever LOL

[@cbcacbca]

How many acoustics have bolt on necks. Most ive come across are glued in neck.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

I’m not sure of the ratio of dovetail to bolt on. But this is different to a dovetail, which you might be thinking of as a glued in neck. A dovetail with water soluble glue is totally and quite easily reversible. Epoxy, however, is not water soluble- it does eventually release under heat but as I point out, the bottom of the block on this joint is about 1” away from a possible heat source- so in reality, this whole neck joint is fused quite permanently together. In short, this is NOT anything like a typical Martin, Gibson, Collings dovetail glued in neck join.

[@lilycat1694]

I sold my Seagull S6 recently, after purchasing a Martin D28. Seagull was pretty good, while I owned it. Actually, I am surprised how much the price has increased on the Seagull S6. It only has a solid top with laminate back & sides and costs around $700.00.

[@BeauHannamGuitars]

I like the sound of Seagull- CAn't go wrong with a D28!