The Historical Apostles

[@sunray9941]

These series are priceless. The classroom style! Perfect. I wish I would find this earlier.

[@jayhooey9961]

It’s the mark of a great teacher; they reference their visual aid, PowerPoints etc., they don’t simply read word for word. They reference and expand on, rather than read word for word. Thank you for being a great teacher!

[@alifi5475]

Good teacher and is different from others in the management of speech and hardly any emotion, great reader , informative and helpful information. Not trying to convince anyone. I enjoy listening to him.

[@toonmoene8757]

The reason I listen to John is that all this material becomes much more accessible if someone who understands history, philosophy *and* theology explains it - in its interrelation.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

@e sandstrom My guess is that he believes the Bible points to the Word. Calling the Bible the Word itself is a form of idolotry, because it is calling a thing, "God". Jesus is the Word, as is stated in the Bible itself.(logos).

[@exoplanet11]

Fun fact: "apostle" and "apostate" come from the same root word, ironically. Apo- means "away from". "Apogee" is when the Moon is farthest away from the Earth ('gee' or Gaia). Apostles go away from the founder to spread the religion, apostates turn away from the religion.

[@jj5962]

Thank you for that info! Intriguing.

[@jacknerdlord3244]

Agreed thanks for that

[@fretnesbutke3233]

Thanks! I love fun facts, especially when they have to do with etymology (word derivation). I think it's fascinating that "In the beginning was the word..","the word" was translated from the Greek word "logos", the root for "logic".

[@charalamposmakris4250]

Greek word 'apostolí' means mission. In fact apòstolos [apostle] has two meanings, a person in a mission or someone who has been sent by his Master in a mission.

[@nosuchthing8]

Good to know

[@HumblyQuestioning]

John you and the Centre Place Team are absolutely top notch! Thank you so much

[@colly7963]

Thank you for posting more intellectual content for Christians. I really enjoy learning about the history of my faith. God bless.

[@halvarmc671]

Check out Richard Carrier if you want an intellectual discussion.

[@albusai]

​@@halvarmc671😂😂 he said Jesus never existed

[@AnyProofOfTheseClaims]

​@@halvarmc671Carrier is part of the equivalent of qanon in his field.

[@billkotas9049]

Being solidly a non-dual Advaitist this truth telling is priceless....

[@EvanGrambas]

What a first class channel. Absolutely love it keep up the great work people!!!!

[@alexvince461]

Great lecture, there's nothing close to being as good as this on KZbin

[@Stefanonymous]

Its great but uh have you searched at all? There's some great scholars of the Bible/early christianity on KZbin with lots of amazing content.

[@josepheridu3322]

I still impressed by how passionate and dedicated the apostles were. Even those who did the least often did so many impressive things.

[@mikeb5340]

WHO SAYS SO

[@jj5962]

I have missed your lectures! I love your presentation style and appreciate the information you so elucidatingly offer. 🙏

[@xaviermachiavelli5236]

The phone & mail right...PHEW

[@frankbonghi1555]

A fine lecture! One of the best so far. Thank you

[@edwardoguerrero8169]

Your program is amazing

[@KathrynJoyTCSuccess]

Thank you so much. I have craved this kind of information ever since I could ask logical questions about my religion. How it ended left too many questions from the origin stories. 2,000 years is too much of a gap not to understand how we got here. I enjoyed hearing about the apostolic evolution to nuns and monks and why they have mostly gone by the wayside. I wonder what Jesus would want his disciples/apostles to do today. The instructions most closely match the “homeless” in our society.

[@jessereichbach588]

All the parallels are in Cats, the musical..... You are correct though, it does match "homeless' in our society. And others that go "unseen". And perhaps more similar to the proto-homeless tradition of hobos and tramps that used to ride the trains during the 1st half of the 20th century. Similarly to the early Christians, the hobo community had signs, a language of symbolism they used to pass on message to new travelers about places safe to stop, where to find a bite, perhaps a bed for the night etc..

[@stingingmetal9648]

To be the example and demonstration

[@dbarker7794]

Another wonderful lecture. Thanks for sharing it here.

[@tanbandanamanband256]

I've been enjoying your videos for a few months now. I really appreciate your knowledge. With such a logical approach to scripture, I'm interested in justification for your church's affiliation with LDS? I'm not trying to be condescending. I'm just truly curious.

[@laurentackett9399]

I really like this man and these videos!! his voice is soothing. has he read any audiobooks? I can't find who he is. someone please help. thank you for all the videos!

[@barnabuskorrum4004]

I respect the historical and pragmatic theories supposed even if alot of the general work is faith based. I do learn a lot of history or fine details i never leaned at a "church" ... Keep it up.

[@mjfryer4540]

Thank you so much for sorting this out for us...I really benefitted

[@M0VI3GUY]

Got a new subscription from me, good, unbiased studies without a whitewashing. More pedantic than the average understanding, which is better in my opinion when looking into these stories/myths and creations.

[@doubtingflock1073]

I bet the verses referenced @30:50 get conveniently skipped at prosperity gospel churches

[@VSP4591]

Another very interesting topic well presented and informative. Congratulation and Thank you.

[@winstonbarquez9538]

Can you also do a lecture on the intratestamental writings. Thanks.

[@keithlightizer156]

A while ago, I came to the conclusion that James, the brother of the lord, is the beloved disciple. He led the church in Jerusalem, the family of Jesus was based there until they moved back north during the siege in the late 60’s. James was murdered in 62 AD. Joses, another brother, took over leadership of group, known as the Ebionites or the Church of the Poor. He lived well into his nineties. Next was Jude (speculation!- I think he was a nephew not a brother). Jude, the brother of the lord, would be around 100 years old by now and he is always portrayed as being associated with an earlier mission to Edessa. I really like the idea the idea that the beloved disciple is the reader, certainly it makes a lot of sense. It brings the reader into the story the way Mark does… we know who Jesus is while everyone in the story spends 10 chapters trying to figure it out.

[@digitaurus]

These lectures are all fascinating. We seem to be melding together here three different sets of people: the twelve disciples, companions of Jesus in his lifetime, the leaders of the Way in the years immediately after his death, and both self-declared and ‘official’ apostles who traveled around preaching different versions (or visions) of the Way. There is limited overlap between these three sets of people. I think a case can also be made that we are missing the earliest known , and one of the better attested, apostles of the Way - John the Baptist.

[@charlesandrews2360]

Really enjoy these lectures. Wish you much success.

[@xaviermachiavelli5236]

The music

[@janetdouglas1272]

This still doesn't answer the question of how Paul got to the top Big Boss of all Christians, then & later.....this is still a mystery to me!

[@kofiata]

He did a lecture on that topic.... "Why paul's church won. centre place".

[@mariojardonsantos7568]

"James" comes from a latin form similar to "Jacome", an alternative to "Jacobus". From theis word also come the Italian "Giacomo", the Catalan "Jaume" (also a king name) and the alternative Spansh "Jaime" that lives along "Santiago".

[@charlesandrews2360]

British Jacobites were supporters of James II

[@letsomethingshine]

"James" comes from John Wycleff's "heretical" rendering of the Latin bible (which uses Jacobus) into "common tongue English" which was then translated from English into Spanish and other European languages. The excuse that John Wycleff was using a translation from Late Latin ("non-biblical") Iacomus does not hold water because he uses Jacob for the Old Testament (many characters named Jacob) but James for the New Testament (many characters named James). Clearly John Wycleff was making a textual point similar to how Hosea turned to Joshua turned to Jesus, but also how he wanted English speakers (newly conquered left overs from the vanquished Celts) to relate more with the New Testament than with the Old Testament, since Celts already had a name in use James which mean "supplanter/usurper" to them.

[@rafaels.5374]

I think Santiago is really Sain Tyachus of Cyprus, castanets and all. Who east martyred by the Moslems about 700sA.D.. I say this because Spain had 2200 year history with Cyprus at that time. Saint TYACHUS OF CYPRUS.

[@rafaels.5374]

Santiago from Saint Tyachus of Cyprus c.700sA.D. Killed by the Moslems. These ate the remains that were taken to Spania. Spania had a 2200year history with Cyprus at that time. As there is many Cypriotes descendants living in Spania. Saint TYACHUS!

[@rafaels.5374]

There is no James in the BIBLE. The apostols and the king of england have two different names. The Biblical characters are named JACOB OR GIACOBO. I DONT SEE A JAMES ANYWHERE IN THERE.

[@vandevere321]

Thank you for your work!

[@The1Helleri]

I really want to see a lecture on the history of history. You've talked before about what exactly makes something history and how the standards of today's practices are rather new. But seeing something more in depth would be great.

[@jimtaggert42]

thank you from kirtland, ohio :)

[@Nazar33]

Thankyou for these most interesting hystory lectures. Christiandom is the faundation of Western Civilization.

[@nathanbeard513]

Bless you for trying to pronounce all these names. I love how you pronounce Bartholomew as “Bartholomule”.

[@placeswelive5388]

Paul REALLY didn't want to work. That's a commitment. Strong stuff.

[@kaudjar]

😂😂😂

[@FrankMerton]

I very much appreciate what you are doing, in particular helping put history in a belief context. Might I suggest, to help refine your historical terms, that you think about the word "tradition," where I feel you overuse it to avoid giving offense. Many of the places you use the word refers to what are really only stories. A true tradition is broader (applies to more people over a longer period of time). To be sure, there is no clear way to distinguish, except to remember that the word "tradition" on its own is a distraction from what you are otherwise saying.

[@michaeljamesonnicholson8637]

I enjoy your videos but one aspect I disagree with is that you're aiming towards a secular historical background. But I enjoy the facts you bring. It's more of a Sunday school sort of thing than actual Christian theology.

[@ChalkiePerfect]

I don’t believe the KJV translators used “James” to impress the king. “James” is from Vulgar Latin “Iacomus” (compare Sp. Jaime, It. Giacomo). Although Iacomus is ultimately derived from Heb. Ya’akov (Jacob), the name has existed in two versions for many centuries, and English translators have always used “James” to translate Greek Iakobos. Even Wycliffe (14th century) used “James” in the NT but “Jacob” in OT. In fact, even in Greek the names are different: “Iakobos” (James) in NT but “Iakob” (Jacob) in OT.

[@qarlalex]

I would be interested in a talk on the Jesus Sutra and also on Preterism.

[@matteosollecito2448]

You should do athos john. I went for four nights in 1980 when I was 21. You’d love it.

[@AwakeAtTheWheel]

Great work as always!

[@clauaome25]

Great lecture!!

[@elodiesalgado4739]

Thanks!

[@velmabrandon3253]

Thank you my friend 💞🌹🙏

[@tookie36]

1:27:30 Right?!? Something seems strange about Peter, James and John. James being a different James.

[@joshuabernie1701]

Fascinating stuff

[@jormajokelainen9089]

Clarifying, excellent.

[@robinstevenson6690]

In 1 Cor. 15: 3-8, Paul seems to include an appearance of Jesus as a criterion for an apostle, claims he is the last of these, that there were 12 apostles, and that he is #13 (thus, the last apostle).

[@biffboffo]

When the apostles are instructed to “heal the sick” is this presumed to occur through faith?

[@robinstevenson6690]

In Romans 16:7, Andronicus and Junia were not referred to by Paul as "prominent apostles," but rather as simply "prominent" (individuals) "among the apostles." That is, they were highly regarded by the apostles. Even if Paul might have regarded them and others as apostles, those in the Jesus Movement in Judea/Galilee were completely at odds with Paul's own claim to be an apostle. They certainly wouldn't recognize any claims by Paul to grant the title of apostle. Paul had no authority to call himself an apostle from the only ones who could possibly appoint anyone to be an apostle.

[@robinstevenson6690]

Since there is no NT document that refers to a female "apostle," "apostles in pairs" may have simply referred to the 12 apostles with a traveling companion or wife. There were female leaders such as Thecla, who may have been considered informally "apostolic," but I've never heard or read of Thecla (or any other female) being referred to in the 1st century as an actual "apostle."

[@adamfrederick4198]

Any conjectures on what papaya might have actually been talking about and referring to

[@mikedunsei8463]

What about Barnabas?? You didn't mention him at all. Maybe he knew Jesus personally as wel??? Thanks

[@robinstevenson6690]

Your interpretation of "all the apostles" in 1 Cor. 15:3-8 adds the commentary "all of the (other) apostles," but that's not what Paul wrote. I think the idea is that Jesus appeared the twelve at least twice. "All the apostles" still refers to the 12.

[@jimhuggard5398]

1:16:53 Ireland was right. The Act of Union came into effect in 1801. Northern Ireland as a political entity dates from the early 1920s when 'Catholic' Ireland left the Union.

[@lisapowers719]

Av tec needs to increase the sound.

[@bookiankhoo8786]

Can someone tell me the name of this excellent teacher?

[@davidmccann9811]

Was it just the 12 who were mendicant, or was this common among the other 70 apostles and 1st century Christians in general? I ask this because some of the early followers of Christ appear to have been quite wealthy.

[@jessereichbach588]

The "apostles" were supported by the community. There certainly were wealth in the community, but many poor as well. And the wealthy tended to support the apostles and the poor that attached themselves to the "apostles" and the respective "churches". Not so different from today, in that wealthy will often support the congregation's needs, like if the church needs a new roof, or they need new prayerbooks etc.. , at least some congregations.

[@davidmccann9811]

@@jessereichbach588 Thanks for the response. 🙂👍

[@andrewsuryali8540]

@@davidmccann9811 Additionally, Acts and the letters of Paul make it clear that wealthy followers who wanted to join the mendicant community had to let go of ALL their wealth and donate it to the community... or ELSE! Remember Ananias and Saphira?

[@jounik8980]

Most could read and write like plato

[@robinstevenson6690]

Mark the Evangelist (and attributed author of the Gospel of Mark) was at least as qualified as Paul was, but nowhere in the NT is Mark named as an apostle. Paul himself is never referred to as an apostle in the 4 gospels.

[@buffalorick5598]

It’s really surprising that with all of the ancient art of apostles and Roman and Greek figures such as Julius Caesar and Socrates and Plato and so many others, that we do not have a true artistically accurate portrait of our Lord Jesus Christ? As for St Paul, “apostle of Christ “ as the movie was titled with Jim Caviezal playing St Luke (another apostle that did not actually walk with our Lord), he is a powerful proof that if Jesus can forgive him he could forgive anyone. Many may not realize that St Paul actually killed Christians as a Roman before his conversion on the road to Damascus.

[@standandelivery]

Paul stoned Steven with the crowd after he prosecuted the case against him. If I'm not mistaken.

[@mickyfrazer786]

@@standandelivery yes and while a Roman citizen he was not Roman but Jewish. Studying under Gamaliel he would have likely spent at least 20 years in education before he appears in Acts

[@andrewsuryali8540]

There wouldn't have been any portraits of Jesus even if he had been a historically powerful figure in Judaea with enough cash to actually commission a portrait. Jews had a prohibition against graven images. No rabbi would have dared to commission such a portrait of himself in Jesus' time or allowed one to be made of himself. This is why we have no portrait of the leaders of the Sanhedrin, not even of their venerated Hillel.

[@andrewsuryali8540]

@@mickyfrazer786 Also, let's be honest, he probably bought his citizenship. All the modern American religious right-wingers who complain about "citizenship for sale" should remember that.

[@mickyfrazer786]

@@andrewsuryali8540 by he I assume you mean Paul? I have read F W Farrar, who suggests that no, Paul did not buy his citizenship. Paul was from Tarsus. Tarsus had a Jewish presence and about the fist decade AD I understand the city was punished for rebellion or not paying tax or something. To pay the debt they sold many of the inhabitants into slavery. Many would have come to Rome. It is posited that Paul's forebears were some of these. But that they worked and earned their freedom, and with it citizenship. Thus when they returned to Tarsus, their descendents were also Roman Citizens. Thus Paul the Roman and Jew.

[@langreeves6419]

Could the disciple that Jesus loved be Lazarus... Never mind he addressed it Great lecture as always

[@CheddarBayBaby]

27:58 I thought John was done for

[@robinstevenson6690]

Question: You state here that there were "many" apostles, but you only mention one (Paul). We know Ireneus, Papias, Clement, etc. are referred to as "apostlic fathers," but not as "apostles." So who was, besides the 12? Paul himself was not designated as an apostle by anyone except himself. The Jewish Christian community apparently only designated "the 12" to be apostles. Acts may refer to Paul and Barnabas as "apostles," but Acts has a strong Pauline influence, and it may have been that Barnabas was considered an apostle merely because of his association with Paul.

[@gregdandoulakis6667]

GREEK LANGUAGE , IS THE BEST ACHIVEMENT OF MEN .

[@andrewsuryali8540]

It's probably 70, not 72, because they're referencing the 70 of the Septuagint.

[@rhondadearborn3265]

Is everything ok with John!? No videos in several weeks

[@placeswelive5388]

Let me understand something here: knowing all this (which is solid mainstream scholarship) you are still a believer?

[@0nlyThis]

Only in the final chapters of his gospel narrative does the author of Luke, inexplicably and without precedence, take to referring to Jesus' disciples as Apostles - the term with which the correspondents of the earlier Epistles often referred to themselves and to each other. This novel practice, one which the author of Luke's narrative continues into Acts, remains unique to this author and appears nowhere in the works of the other evangelists. It is, therefore, incorrect to refer to the disciples of Mark's, Matthew's and John's narratives as "Apostles".

[@arieltejera8079]

The historic apostles.. Our roots, for eternity.

[@kumarg3598]

The James executed in Jerusalem could be james, Jesus brother. The one with the ossurary.

[@digitaurus]

Three of the "tail-end" disciples are understood by many scholars to be brothers of Jesus: James (son of Alphaeus); Simon the Cananaean/Canaanite/Zealot; and Thaddeus/Judas son of James/Judas 'not Iscariot'.Thomas is also a candidate as a doublet of Jesus's brother Judas (Thomas just means 'twin' - his name was Jude or Judas). The Nazarene sect was very much a family affair, believing themselves to be a descendant branch of the line of David.

[@decay-154]

What a load of krapp

[@decay-154]

Sorry . What you said was from James tabor who is a credible lecturer. This guy is full of shit

[@MJ-lx8pc]

Bravo!

[@dmsdad6866]

Really curious about the age range of the original 12. I read somewhere John was the youngest at around 10-12 and Simon Peter the oldest at 17-20. There seems to be a hint of pederastry, though not uncommon in the hellenized world

[@johnpro2847]

who fed and sheltered these men..did they operate from home or did they get their entire income from tithes and stay in hotels or camping grounds..the bible is silent on this important economic issue

[@kimguy4159]

I have invisible elves in my basement. Could you also do a talk on them?

[@yiannimil1]

they talk to you?

[@kimguy4159]

@@yiannimil1 Yes all the time. telepathically. Anytime I like

[@peterwelsh1932]

52:45 12 is for 12 months, Goober! The twelve zodiac signs follow The Sun. Astrology/ Astronomy is the oldest religion because it’s how people survived: knew when to plant, when to sleep, when to wake, when to expect cold weather, when to predict an eclipse and scare everyone… this was all memorization techniques for man’s survival.

[@angelawossname]

The year hasn't always had 12 months. The Roman calendar originally had 10 months, and some traditions used the 13 lunar months, and not all astrology practises had 12 zodiac signs within a year. Learn some history, goober.

[@bookiankhoo8786]

Thanks

[@centre-place]

Thank you for supporting the channel!

[@marcelmolenaar5684]

Fun fact; Judas was written into the bible some 400 years ago.

[@charlesandrews2360]

Relics we're always important but became essential in the 6th and 7th centuries AZ large numbers of superstitious Germanic peoples were converting to Christianity.

[@mickyfrazer786]

Relics were mentioned in Acts as 2nd order (stuff belonging to) 3rd order (being touched by) and even the shadow of.

[@Drbob369]

Good videos that are much too long

[@davidrobinson4119]

How many of the Apostles actually knew Jesus?

[@mikemcc6625]

Open seminary for loving interested.

[@torontocitizen6802]

I’m not convinced that any of these people actually existed.

[@rorysheerin9863]

Oh no! It's not "angels could not have brought his body THEIR". It's THERE. It's not "Romanes eunt domus" either. It's "Romani ite domum". (Otherwise great stuff thanks).

[@skylarkprowrestler]

How can one be real Christian and still be gnostic?

[@sheltr9735]

John Hamer is just so incredibly impressive! So it's surprising to find him repeatedly mispronouncing the name "Bartholomew", as he definitely does Have a listen, and judge for yourself: 53:54 58:11 and again at 58:20 1:00:31 (which is preceded by the only occurrence, in my life, of the poor pronunciation of the city of "Beirut") And other occurrences Ugh, John!!

[@initiativeplaytherapy88]

If you're not using the Shire Reckoning... well... neither am I. 😜

[@reframepodcast]

I'm getting verklempt. Talk amongst yourselves. I'll give you a topic: Matthew, neither a publican nor an evangelist, discuss.

[@vhawk1951kl]

"Historical means story about the past and*Nhing_Else*, thus historical can add *nothing* to apostles; if it is pre-Now it is a story.There is no*Magic* in the word "hisrorical"

[@jvlp2046]

The 12 Tribes of Israel (Jacob) will be on the 12 foundations of the Wall Gate of the New Jerusalem with the 12 Apostle's name will be on the 12 Gates... Will JUdas Iscariot be on one of the 12 Gates if God forgives his betrayal and suicide?

[@dennisj.isreal8263]

😇 *Matthew 2:12-15 And Being Warned Of GOD In A Dream That They Should Not Return To Herod, They Departed Into Their Own Country Another Way. And When They Were Departed, Behold, The Angel Of The Lord Appeareth To Joseph In A Dream, Saying, Arise, and Take The Young Child and His Mother, and Flee Into Egypt, and Be Thou There Until I Bring Thee Word: For Herod Will Seek The Young Child To Destroy Him. When He Arose, He Took The Young Child and His Mother By Night, and Departed Into Egypt: And Was There Until The Death Of Herod: That It Might Be Fulfilled Which Was Spoken Of The Lord By The Prophet, Saying Out Of Egypt Have I Called MY Son. How Could 3 Caucasians, HIDE IN EGYPT !!!&!!!* 🤔

[@burebista11]

Peter uncle by wife to jhon and james father (zedebee)

[@henryjohnson2158]

This story is fantastic. Like facts made upin Hollywood. People must be very gullible to believe this nonsense

[@oscarmudd6579]

Simply lying will no longer get it done.

[@beingmetoday]

Must be nice to be gay

[@halvarmc671]

Thought this was going to be an actual intellectual discussion, and it was just apologetics pretending to be intellectual.

[@carwash9921]

Hello sick Man!

[@amiga2025]

the hems and haws are too aggravating..

[@bartbannister394]

Historical Apostles? AhHaHaHa!

[@mickyfrazer786]

Starts by discussing the historicity of Saintiago and dismisses the truth of it and the proceeds to put faith in Q that is unproven and does not have a reflection in the apostolic fathers. There is a distinct lack of consistency Luke is not history, really! It is a history exactly in the style of heroditus et al. The Gospels are Evangelical, yet the Word evangelical does not describe extant documents but is derived from the Gospel as its own genre, because of the name and connection with faith. Evangelical comes from evangelion, which is the statement of victory used in roman emperial battles. Some truth in here salted heavily with bad history, I wonder for what purpose. 14 Apostles, though many Disciples.

[@jessereichbach588]

"Distinct lack of consistency" is the perfect phrase to describe all of "Christianity". All who use "bad history". All though, this channel does it closer to FACT than most.

[@mickyfrazer786]

@@jessereichbach588 no it uses pop-history-ism. New word as one does not really exist. Like scientism that turns science into a pseudo religion there are many today that follow the 28th century led direction of texts down rabbit holes. That try to force the Gnostic texts as part of legitimate Christianity rather than following the evidence to what they were, namely seeking to use bad history and rhetoric in lieu of a true point. Carholic/Orthodox teachings and traditions follow a consistent trajectory back to the apostolic age. 1500 years before Luther began to change things in order to marry et al. The current push from channels such as this is just a natural extension of the departure Luther began.

[@jessereichbach588]

@@mickyfrazer786 So you are saying you believe theology is history? What's "legitimate Christianity"? If Christianity were "legitimate" there wouldn't be other religions. Or "schisms" to deal with. You are talking about the Roman Imperial faith? That version of "Christianity"?

[@mickyfrazer786]

@@jessereichbach588 no. Theology and history are different, but that does not stop the biblical accounts being historical. The history or theology comes out of how you apply them. By your phraseology it shows your bias against Christianity, or at least to its historicity. We have more copies of the new testament than we have of all other contemporary texts of the time. We have so many that we can see errors and error correction and know how correct and truthful to what was first written. We have historians who question the new testament yet take on trust the self-penned works of julius ceaser. Histories that were written at that time were written as luke was written. They were not as histories are written today. What do you think the Apostles achieved in pushing Christianity after Jesus death? Did they do it for glory and honour, wealth and riches? All were martyred although one escaped said Martyrdom being saved throughout his boiling in oil, John. They lived in commune, not in state. Jesus, despite denials of some, consistently demonstrates and states He is God, throughout all Gospels. He literally leaves but 3 answers to determine who He is. He is a madman, He is a charlatan, or He is God. Most of the OT is the Jews showing how faithless they are, yet God still watches over them. Even now when there are next to no cultures that exist from history, the Jewish people are still here. For some no amount of evidence will demonstrate the truth. Consider when the Jews fled Egypt, Moses heads up Sinai and the Jews seek to make idols. They had just witnessed His power. Yes it's history, to deny it is so is to be arrogant in the face of the evidence. You could argue about its bias perhaps, but it is a document from the time reporting on events of the time and a truly unbiased historian would treat it as such.

[@johnpro2847]

jesus is not very good at staff selection 10% dud rate