The Historical Jesus with Dr Dale Martin

[@asadullahsaaid3794]

*Timestamps for Chapters:* 0:00 - Introduction 0:08 - Information about guest speaker 0:22 - Topic of the Livestream 0:49 - New Testament: it's History and Reliability 1:40 - Examples of contradictions in the New Testament 3:14 - Other contradictions 4:01 - Trial of Jesus PBUH 6:44 - Reason of having the trial 7:58 - Where did most of Jesus's ministry took place ? 9:16 - Sources used by historians to investigate Jesus PBUH 11:54 - What are the Reliable sources ? 12:53 - Paul and mention of Jesus in his letters 14:22 - Dates of the Biblical texts 15:33 - How do historians decide what is reliable & authentic in terms of Historicity ? 20:28 - Agreement between all textual sources 21:42 - Did the historical Jesus actually choose 12 disciples ? 22:20 - Finding anachronisms in the Biblical texts 26:19 - Why Gospel of John uses Anachronism of Jesus ? 30:02 - Jesus PBUH denying being God in the Gospel of Mark 33:50 - Matthew copying and editing Mark 36:26 - Differences between scholars about the criteria of Historicity of Jesus 40:45 - Different Biblical scholars arriving on different versions of historical Jesus 45:43 - Historical Jesus on ethics 50:33 - Who was the Historical Jesus based on reliable sources ? 56:18 - Did the Historical Jesus obey the Mosaic laws ? 59:06 - Apocalyptic tone of Jesus's teachings 1:00:38 - Discontinuity between the Historical and Biblical Jesus and why Dale Martin is a Christian 1:08:01 - Creed based on substance 1:11:14 - Constructing and understanding the Historical Jesus 1:13:43 - Jesus of Faith vs Jesus of History 1:22:21 - Closing Statements. SUBHANALLAH ❤️🤍❤️ Another Insightful and Informative stream.

[@BloggingTheology]

thanks!

[@asadullahsaaid3794]

@@BloggingTheology After I finish commenting all the timestamps, you can pin it for the viewers brother Paul. 👍🏻

[@BloggingTheology]

@@asadullahsaaid3794 thank you for doing this!

[@asadullahsaaid3794]

@@BloggingTheology My pleasure brother Paul. ☺️😊 May Allah SWT bless you and accept your efforts. ❤️

[@asadullahsaaid3794]

@@BloggingTheology I've finished the timestamps. You can pin the comment now. 👍🏻👌🏻

[@ChildofGod98765]

Thank you you for this because I wanted to give up this knowledge gives me hope, my husband died three years ago making me a single mother both of my sons are autistic. I’m struggling to provide for them since losing my job over not getting the vaccine. I refused due to my declining health (Lupus) and heart disease. Please keep me in your prayers. ❤️

[@anonymous-ml9yk]

Amen

[@TheBobbysPerspective]

Are your kids vaccinated?

[@TravelingPhilosopher]

May God provide for you and grant you and your sons blessings that would provide relief to you and help you heal from the trauma that you have gone through in life. Aameen!

[@zainabzuhasarafdeen4873]

May god guide you and your family towards truth and provide abundantly in this world and hereafter Aameen

[@momonasri8611]

May Allah swt aid for you, heal you and protect your kids too sister amiin 🤲🏽🤲🏽🤲🏽

[@Chandransingham]

Brilliant! I read his Biblical Truths in 40 days and was very impressed. It answers all the questions for me. Lots of references to follow-up for further reading. Great scholar and thinker. God bless. Thanks Paul.

[@BloggingTheology]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@ahy7181]

I must say this is a brilliant piece. Prof Dale was very frank when it comes to the contradictions in the bible. Paul asked all the most important questions and yes that wicked English sense of humour: Not a great diet I wouldn't recommend that diet today .....Hilarious. Once again welldone Paul!

[@BloggingTheology]

❤️🙏

[@ahy7181]

@@matthewpaulson6497 Hey don't be a sore loser !!!

[@ahy7181]

@@matthewpaulson6497 "Around the ninth hour, Jesus shouted in a loud voice, saying 'Eli Eli lema sabachthani? ' which is, 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? '” (Matthew 27:46) A saviour indeed!!! Kind regards

[@abdan7262]

@@matthewpaulson6497 Jesus is a Muslim so we win.

[@johnabra1860]

After this lecture, I feel my vocabulary is severely limited. Thank you both so much for this great quality content.

[@ameg2707]

Enjoying with a cup of tea ☕️ Jazak Allah Khair 🌹

[@richman8082]

@@yulia5009 stop spamming Christian propaganda. Dr Dale Martin only represents the consensus of bible scholars

[@simonlealbarria6550]

1:06:15 "Ojalá" is indeed a spanish word. It derives from the arabic language (like some other words in spanish) and expresses the desire that something happens.

[@ebainton]

In Arabic, law shā' Allah: If only God had willed it. I'm interested that ojalá also has the meaning of in shā' Allah, if God so wills, depending on context

[@chadgarber]

Couldn't Jesus' family had both places for their hone town at different time? Also, just because there is no record of a census doesn't mean it didn't happen. That's an argument from silence.

[@Hunter-ue3ny]

Nice beard, Paul.

[@richman8082]

@@yulia5009 stop spamming Christian propaganda. Dr Dale Martin only represents the consensus of bible scholars

[@raypardillo6788]

Looks very appropriate. 👍👌

[@shiroboo525]

@@yulia5009 Thank you for sharing sis.

[@DAWAHTIME1]

Came to see Brother Paul's beard 🙂

[@ckotty]

Again very thankful to Dr Dale. It is a mesmerizing topic, very hard to "swallow" for misinformed Christians. What an honest portrayal. Great exposition and questioning. I am privileged for these "bites".👍🏽😘

[@Mhh90]

'This criteria was only developed in the 20th century'. It's wonderful to know the methods to authenticate hadith was present at a very early stage in Islam

[@Mhh90]

@@matthewpaulson6497 I only read Bible passages when I watch videos about the Bible. There's nothing wrong with the Bible per say. It's just that a lot of it can't be attributed to the Devine or Jesus PBH. The Quran however is different. Every single word of the Quran is spoken from the mouth of Muhammad PBH himself who claims to have received it from Gabriel on God's orders. It was memorized and eventually compiled in a book by the companions. Whether you believe Muhammad's PBH claim is a different matter. But one thing's for sure, Jesus never said "I have not departed from Your judgments, For You Yourself have taught me. How sweet are Your words to my taste, Sweeter than honey to my mouth!"

[@Mhh90]

@@matthewpaulson6497 You probably need to see a doctor. You have a condition.

[@Mhh90]

@@matthewpaulson6497 Pseudobulbar affect (PBA) is a condition that's characterized by episodes of sudden uncontrollable and inappropriate laughing or crying.

[@eri6219]

Professor martin is one of my favorite New Testament/early Christianity scholars. Strongly recommend his lectures “New Testament” with Yale which are available on KZbin.

I feel smarter just listening.. tnx u.. u guys are great.. very intellectually honest conversation..

[@phillipanon7139]

Thanks Paul for this superb discourse. Both you and Dale are a wealth of knowledge! This video is so interesting and lucid for a layman like myself.

[@BloggingTheology]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@Alloyka107]

A person of faith will be seeking how to reconcile the Scripture of almighty and sovereign God. Thanks to such people we have so many profound insights for the empowered Christian life. A person without faith instead will see only mistakes and be stuck in them.

[@BlergleslinkVettermoo]

I've really enjoyed these talks with Dale Martin.

[@hamzatniyi3541]

"And now they reject the truth when it reaches them: but soon shall they learn the reality of what they used to mock at".(Q6:5)

[@MohamedShou]

Dale Martin and Ali Ataie is probably my favoured guests on this channel. Even though the other guests are amazing in their own right too 😁

[@f1aziz]

He's basically segregated "realities" based on the discipline of history and religion. Intellectually, that allows him to be able to believe in both without needing to attempt to reconcile these contradictory realities. That's clever.

[@BloggingTheology]

but is it coherent?

[@nu-nisamiracle2401]

That's what hpcrite means.

[@f1aziz]

@@BloggingTheology I have never seen anyone compartmentalizing their beliefs like that. May be it's just a cop out. He couldn't get the historical Jesus reconcile with Jesus of his faith, I felt he was far more convinced of historical Jesus though, but he's not open to challenge his views on Jesus in Christianity. No I don't think it's coherent.

[@BloggingTheology]

@@f1aziz I tend to agree

[@monzersami1642]

@Blogging Theology he answered that very mystery at 1:02:59 .. he says his life would be impoverished if he gave up his belief of Christianity which he grew up with.. he feels he would lose his identity then and I can feel him on that sense.. may god guide him and all of us!

[@chadgarber]

Peter hearing about the trial is totally plausible? Why is that clearly made up?

[@nahumhabte6210]

Very interesting interview. I like This professor , he is quite honest and thoughtful

[@hbh7868]

Nice to listen to him again

[@richman8082]

@@yulia5009 stop spamming Christian propaganda. Dr Dale Martin only represents the consensus of bible scholars

[@chadgarber]

Paul said that he received the gospel by revelation so wasn't Paul passing on the gospel quotes from the revelation?

[@shiroboo525]

Thank you Paul..T'was good discussion.❤

[@BloggingTheology]

T'was indeed.

[@purplerain2205]

Alhumdulilah for the sciences of Hadith, this conversation was very insightful that personally further increased my love of the clarity of Islam and appreciating who Allah, the Most High is, so much more to say, SubhanAllah may Allah guide Dr. Martin, Ameen

[@nu-nisamiracle2401]

@@srnp0007 Be a muslim, then go to cairo to learn the mthodolody of grding and prsrving hadith. What bart ehrman do to the bible, muslim already do those to the hadith since 1400 years ago, more strcly than what ehrman do.

[@WelcomeToTheRezvolution]

@@nu-nisamiracle2401 That guy isn't interested in the science of Hadith.

[@adelow]

​@@srnp0007 Science of hadith is a way to preserve history and sayings in it's most authentic form. The science of Hadith can truly be said as superior of documentation than any other history we have today. Chains of narration are a huge part of it and through the chains (which we have access of) we know exactly who transmitted what to someone. All the way back to the prophetﷺ. We have a grading in hadith called Mutawatir which is above the grading authentic (sahih). Basically a mass transmitted event from companions so much so that you can not reject the event. Let alone an authentic hadith is absurd to reject. Imagine about 10000 people knocking on your door, maybe 500 one day and 250 next day etc etc, saying that they saw Christiano ronaldo in the supermarket, and they heard ronaldo say something. Every single man cites ronaldo (what he said) perfectly word by word without a slighest change in word. It's a pretty bad example but essentially this is a event that u can not reject. This is a mutawatir hadith and hadith science. Wallahu A'lam

[@adelow]

@@srnp0007 Lmao yes it is. If 1000 people say EXACTLY the same thing, then u can be sure that someone said exactly that without a doubt. if someone has deviated from those wordings then u know that they didn't say the true statement because of bad memory, lying or whatever. We know people change wordings the hadith science is a way to counter the people that change meanings. The hadith science is a way to SEE who changed the wordings. We know who said authentically and who deviated from the true sayings.

[@adelow]

@@matthewpaulson6497 Lmao not u again. I don't believe in a corrupted, anonymous book with full of contradictions and failed prophecies in the first place. why would i EVER consider reading the bible.It can say whatever it wants it doesn't raise my interest for a split second.

[@chadgarber]

Jesus didn't say He wasn't God but was asking if the dude perhaps had faith to believe Jesus was God.

[@zenityquest8402]

Please bring Brian Berlectic of New Atlas on the show. He's an ex-marine who left the US military after reading the Quran. He never went back to the US after that.

[@covffchannel]

Excellent podcast Mashallaah

[@BloggingTheology]

Glad you liked it

[@jameshughes9979]

....YOU HAVE UN : LOCKED , ((( CLARIFFIED 48 YEARS OF CONFUSION DR.DALE MARTIN ...YOU LIVE UP TO YOU UNIVERSITY MOTT : TRUTH & LIGHT ...THANK GOD FOR YOUR IN : SIGHTS FOR LIVING OUT THE TRUTHS OF THE WORDS OF THE ((( GREAT : I AM ))) ...JESUS CHRIST !!!

[@ElkoJohn]

''To know is to know that we don't know'' (Abraham Low)

[@shuaybgallo_abufadwa]

Great education, thx Paul

[@jacklin231]

This study wants some information about the publisher of Gospels and the Roman history which I found some leak in it, so I couldn't understand the precise ideas which present our doctor but I believe that he did a great work by the right way, my great respect our doctor ,don't forget to tell you that I followed your courses in Yale university 6 years ago or more so I have listened to doctor Amy stangerford and doctor Chrestine Hayes and Paul freedman and Shelly gagan they where so fantastic speaker and professor, in addition I found with doctor Hayes that the Islamic stories in Quran are the same as she listed in her lectures. finally thank you for your great effort ,and don't forget to pass my great salutations to your friends in Yale university , especially to doctor Amy stangerfford.🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋🙋

[@hafiz5001]

nice stream thanks

[@saeefullahmohammad1402]

It amazed me when basically he said the jesus he worships is not the jesus he "preaches". It truth deeds are made fair seeming even though it's obvious.

[@islamnurul5261]

Can you try to bring Dr.Zakir on an episode .

[@justarshad8354]

@@yulia5009 great..thanks for sharing..

[@hathim]

Only yesterday I was searching for a good discussion on this very topic. Thanks for the very comprehensive discussion.

[@BloggingTheology]

Glad it was helpful!

[@brianbucher1313]

This was excellent! Thank you!

[@BloggingTheology]

You're so welcome!

[@aasemkhalid3685]

I think Dale has lost it completely when he wanted to justify his belief in Christianity as a religion although it doesn't make sense for him as a historian

[@shefayetchowdhury6316]

That was excellent!

[@PakiLibertarian]

Excellent interview Paul! I loved the choice of questions especially about which historical accounts are considered reliable as well as the question about how an account is graded to be likely authentic. I wonder if there is an Islamic scholar out there who looks into the historicity of the Hadiths and do textual criticism since the Hadith are graded largely based on the chain and not the content. Really looking forward to your interview with Prof Bart Ehrman.

[@dr.zisreligious]

Mashallah hidayatallah jazakallah khair ❤️👍

[@mikehutton3937]

I must confess I was not looking forward to this, given the difficulties in Dale Martin's perspective on some parts of scriptural interpretation. but I was very much mistaken. Thank you for this Paul, even though I suspect most people - from reading the comments section anyway - completely misunderstood what Dale was saying. Essentially the crux of the conversation is around 1:13:20, where Dale explains his perspective on what the historical method is, and more importantly what it is not. There are times when a little knowledge is very dangerous, such as Margaret Thatcher quoting - or possibly misquoting - Richard Dawkins, when she declared "there's no such thing as society". In one sense she really didn't understand Dr. Dawkin's work, and her conclusions which put this into a philosophical, political, and economic plan have been vilified by Dr. Dawkins himself since her death, or more precisely once he realized just how much damage she had caused under his inspiration. Essentially the historical method is an academic exercise which has little practical application other than a study of the method used itself. Outside of academic circles the conclusions of the historical method can't really be used in the way that someone acting in the world would normally use scientific evidence. The construction garnered in the historical method can only be used in that specific academic context, as outside of that context it doesn't exist in meaningful terms. This explanation is difficult to express, but Dale Martin has done so very carefully. What we are then supposed to do after this becomes the question. One thing is completely clear. By whatever route he has taken to come to it, Dale Martin is a man of deep, profound, and living faith. There is no likelihood that he would - as some commentators would clearly hope - discard the faith he has in favour of Islam. If anything his perspective makes the possibility of that non-existent. For ontologically he regards the concept of a "historical Jesus" as a fabrication of academia, if you like a study into epistemics which constructs an artificial framework and then sees where that leads and how knowledge can be gleaned within that artificial framework. But the language in that framework exists only there, and it is this which means that the conclusions make no practical sense when we're back in "reality" and have to deal with things that are real as opposed to those which are artificial constructs (of which history forms a part). There is one thing Dale Martin proposes where I believe he has misunderstood what is going on. He talks about "playing by the rules" and thereby conducting historical investigations means that you should "play the game of history honestly". The assumption is that those on the "conservative" side of the argument are distorting the rules, whereas those on the "skeptical" side are not. The truth of the matter is that the game of history has been going on for a good deal longer than historical criticism of the Bible, and whereas those on the "conservative" wing do come to the table with an agenda of underlining orthodoxy, those on the skeptical side come with an equally problematic set of objectives. One only has to read Bart Ehrman's "How Jesus Became God" to understand that playing the game of history is not always on the table for some of these academics, particularly when they fail to distinguish between the epistemological basis of their academic approach, and its implications (or rather, the lack thereof) in simply ontological terms. In short, they refuse to clarify what Dale Martin has, namely that their conclusions are of little use when attempting to make sense of a life of faith, and are indeed more likely to deceive rather than help someone expecting to be able to take their conclusions at face value.

[@fikarrusdiawan9562]

I want a more coherent mentality...

[@mikehutton3937]

@@fikarrusdiawan9562 Then you need to avoid academics like Dale Martin and Bart Ehrman. Because what they're doing isn't coherent in the way that you want it to be. In fact, you might want to think twice about this channel. Simple faith and academic enquiry often make uneasy bedfellows.

[@yusufk5298]

Great conversation once again with Dale. We heard him before trying to justify his orthodox christian beliefs but it doesnt work. Paul, to digress, i had the privilege of listening to a lecture on Islsmic mosque architecture by Ahmed Keeler. A very distinguished academic from Cambridge who wrote a book, Rethinking Islam and the West. Brilliant speaker who i recommend inviting on Blogging Theology. He is 79 years old and im sure he will have an interesting story to tell.

[@RashidAli-bp3mr]

Paul- you should invite Hamza Yusuf or Reza Aslan? I'm sure it would be very interesting.

[@conjugatemethod]

Is Reza a Muslim? I’m sure I heard him saying religions are metaphorical though this was many years ago.

[@RashidAli-bp3mr]

@@conjugatemethod he identifies himself as a muslim. He wrote a very interesting book about jesus.

[@oldtwinsna8347]

RIP to Professor Martin as he died last year.

[@Thomasw540]

Dale, the reason why there were no Jewish witnesses inside the Praetorium is because all of Jesus's friends had gone to ground out of danger from the Jews who wanted Jesus dead and the Jews that did show up didn't want to become unclean on the verge of Passover. The Gospel of John brings this up. If you abandoned the critical historic method of the dialectical Marxism of the JEsus Seminar, the contradiction would tend to anchor the history you prefer to ignore. For one thing, Cornelius was in the room with Pilate. Cornelius helped Pilate prepare the original euangilion to Tiberius reporting Resurrection as an important military technology. The thing that Marx didn't understand about Hegel was that the contradictions he could identify with his forensic methods were a point of paradox between the bacon with the oink removed and the bacon with the "oink" as part of a dynamical system. We can pretty well narrow the day and hour that Jesus actually died in 33 CE from the astronomy and oral history. This compresses everything that happens in Acts before Cornelius, when the cult of the Jewish Jesus Followers went on the timeline of Roman Standard Time. The tenth Legion had eyewitness spy reports of the moment Jesus comes up out of the Jordan in the arms of His cousin, John the Baptist. The first εὐθὺς appears inerrantly in the Greek manuscripts of the Gospel of Mark. We know that it was between Passover either in 28 CE or 30 CE and Pentecost, and the Reading of the Law, which was virtually mandatory for Jewish males. John Mark's first impression of Jesus was in the week before Passover in either 28 CE or 30 CE and after John the Baptist and Jesus have returned from Jericho for Laws. What should have been made Metaphysically Transparent from the emergence of Josephus since the 1960s is that the Romans were fully aware of the sphere of influence of John the Baptists as a potential insurgency before Jesus pops out of no where and takes over this irregular militia. From the Roman point of view. Before Jesus, shows up, the Romans know whether John the Batptist wipes his ass from front to back or back to front.. At what point does any of this become "History" in your little academic bag of tricks? I ran an Recon platoon on the Ho Chi Minh Trail at the moment the US Army began to bug out of the AO. My understanding of the perspective of Cornelius in the universe of Christian scholarship as near as I can tell. For one thing, I am the only American writing about The Gospel of Mark as a Roman intelligence report right out of the Ranger Handbook. Here's what happened. Jesus happened. Resurrection happened and the whole idea of actual physical Jesus H. Christ Resurrection didn't exist in the Greco-Roman mind. The recurrection events in the sort of general cultural inquiry into the nature of existence, resurrection served a certain need to explain recurring events, like the sun coming up in the morning. But actual, rise from the gore of the battlefield Resurrection was a technology way beyond sowing dragons teeth. Richard Bauckman's only error is that the mind-map he posits isn't the mind-map of a Jewish fishman but of a senior Roman centurion, Cornelius. Everything Bauckman presents as evident is validated by Mark 3:8. This verse is straight off the Roman map sheets of the AO (Area of Operations) of the X Legion. We had maps like this in Vietnam hung in the TOC (Tactical Operations Center) the Operations Officer used with plastic lamination and grease pencils in a practical application of Topology as a tool of command. At what point does "history" kick in for you. Dale? Quelle was a primary source for Josephus's The Jewish Wars and Mark 1:4 - 8 is the leading edge of the intelligence archives of the 10 Legion the instant Jesus emerges from the Jordan and steals the spotlight from John the Baptist for the Roman spy network, which is what Mark 1:14 is all about. All the assets dedicated to keeping track of John the Baptist was shifted to watching Jesus and what the Romans cane to know about the fate of John the Baptist came from the intelligence archives of Harrod Antipas by way of Pilate and their mutual interest in all things Jesus. When does your trigger for "History" get pulled, Dale? James Tabor's intuition that Mark and John are an entwined narrative is exactly correct. The moral confusion being generated by your critical historical model will evaporate like the morning mist that covered the Roman soldiers at the tomb when the women at the ending of the Gospel of Mark arrive at the Tomb when you abandon Marx for Hegel. You will be delighted at the paradigm shift.

[@rianganus]

I'm from Indonesia, I'm Catholic in Indonesia

[@hassanmirza2392]

Dear Paul, does Dale Martin also popular among Christians? What do they make of his findings?

[@richman8082]

@@yulia5009 stop spamming Christian propaganda. Dr Dale Martin only represents the consensus of bible scholars

[@azhajouj]

I always wondering if Jesus disciples believed that Jesus is God or son of God how they ran away to Galilei and left him alone to his distiny and they don't dare to. Be present during his crisifoction . ?? If kings bodyguards sacrificed thier life to protect their king how these disciples ran away without to protect their God ??

[@nu-nisamiracle2401]

Coz there is no one to be prtected. Jesus already ascnd to the heaven.

[@azhajouj]

@@nu-nisamiracle2401 my response to these who believe that thier God has been humelated , beaten and crucified

[@bishophowardslayton-ulccle359]

Professor Dale, Do you believe that the Vatican has a machine called the Coronovisor, where they can view various events in history including the crucifixion?

[@normative]

I have always found the way NT scholars think about “independence” very odd. If John recapitulates stories from earlier gospels that have been circulating and read in churches for 20 years, it seems very strange to insist that this is an “independent” account just because it’s not copied verbatim from a written text.

[@michaelwhite8031]

Eye witnesses to any event always see things differently. There were many high ranking Jews that were sympathetic to Jesus who could have witnessed his trial. Jesus was no ordinary man but a thorn in the side of high ranking priests, so they wanted the Romans to meat out Judgement. Thousands of people don't die for a myth.

[@sulaymanjaved688]

Very interesting video. The gift of Islam should never be underestimated. Letting go of your faith can be a very difficult process and emotions often overrule reason and rationale.

[@farqluekytani1324]

Paul, perhaps a discussion on Dale's postmodermism in light of his faith or vice versa might be a good topic? The linguistic turn in philosophy and elsewhere over the past 50+ years has had a big impact broadly speaking, and quite dramatically in theology and biblical studies. Another great episode! On to the next one....

[@محمدالحلو-د4ق]

The truth is so simple and so clear, that it doesn't require these synthetic contradictory attempts of Dale Martin. When it needs to distinguish between Jesus of faith and historical Jesus, it would be better to confess that the doctrine suffers from a structural defect, which requires correction not a makeup

[@boxerfencer]

I liked this one podcast with Dale. He seemed to really be on the ball for this one. I will say the Canadian professor mentioned needs to come back. I was disappointed with your cutting his interview short.

[@VandalIO]

that Spanish word ojalá is from “inshallah” .. google the word to learn it’s history

[@MrChi31]

Yes 🙌🏻 we also say camisa (قميص) pantalón (بنطلون ) azúcar (سكر) and more!!

[@schorpioen7466]

And portuguese

[@asifuzzaman924]

You are looking great with beard.

[@ashmeerashmeersyne4768]

Impressive, educational !

[@stevenv6463]

Did professor Dale Martin say that historians think Jesus (as) was crucified in Rome? Surely he misspoke and meant Jerusalem, right?

[@BloggingTheology]

Misspoke

[@brygenon]

@@BloggingTheology Obviously misspoke. I suggest in the future you might interject, "of course you meant..." rather than letting it go.

[@selah920]

Your choice of topics is really good, my brother. I hope an Arabic translation will be added to your interviews. May God bless you

[@danielmasters5484]

When speaking of the historical Jesus, Dr. Martin comes to conclusions which are practically identical to the Islamic view of Jesus and his mission. Unfortunately, he is somehow unable to break free of his traditional Christian beliefs and instead makes a vain attempt at mental gymnastics to reconcile these with the objective outcomes of his research.

[@Hunter-ue3ny]

Good observation.

[@jordanh5803]

Sometimes it's hard for people to "abandon" their religious identity however it's very important for us to iterate that understanding something isn't enough.. if we truly believe in God and we researched enough to know about God and what he expects of us then we MUST follow... I say that with all the love in the world for Dr. Martin but knowing and following aren't exactly synonymous (practicing what you preach so to speak) ... his way of thinking reminds me of Dr. Jerald dirks (May Allah grant him the highest of heavens) as he was doing mental gymnastics before finally internalizing the label of a Muslim ... he called himself an atypical-Christian for the longest time until he realized that being a Muslim didn't change his cultural identity one bit , the only thing it changed was his religious identity which is something he changed even before internalizing the term Muslim ..

[@halwarner3326]

Thank you kamala harris.

[@cor-z8m]

We all have opinions.

[@robertbishop5477]

Interesting interview that I will completely watch someday. Through 24 minutes, no mention of The Pseudoclementines or Josephus as independent sources. Not enough emphasis on James and too much on Paul/Saul. Claiming the 4 gospels can be independent sources to each other (to corroborate a subject/item) seems specious at best. An independent source to any of the gospels having historically accuracy would be a historically known non-gospel source, for instance: Josephus or the Pseudoclementines. I will watch this completely soon, but Dr. Dale lost me on his independent verification process. Thanks for your interviews with Dr. Dale, I will listen to them intently. I really appreciate what you are doing Mr. Williams. I do prefer Dr. Robert Eisenman's approach to the historical Jesus dynasty, have you ever interviewed Dr. Eisenman?

[@robertbishop5477]

I completed the Dr. Dale Martin interview today, thank you Paul for your efforts at bringing Theology from various diverse voices. I stand by my previous statement. Josephus was mentioned for a second or two, and not considered a serious source for analysis in this Dr. Martin interview. I believe Dr. Robert Eisenman's statement and I'm paraphrasing, "If you want to find the historical Jesus, whatever his brother James was, Jesus likely was too." Thankfully, unlike Jesus, James is found in historical writings separate from the Bible. And in many instances, James is referred to as the brother of the Lord. Hence from studying this subject, from my earliest Catholic upbringing to this day, I have come to believe that Jesus and John the Dipper/Baptizer were very tight and too revolutionary for the Herodians in charge. Added to that, I have learned over time, that all the brothers of Jesus were martyred, Maccabee-style, wiped out by Herodians. There are so many theories about the historical Jesus, and all deserve further study. Thanks for your great contribution in this regard, Paul. I love learning how Muslims and Christians handle that important time in our history...and it requires further study on my part. My Catholic upbringing did not cover the history of that time at all...I raced off to college to learn about world religions and history...Catholicism was not a reliable source for either in the 1960s & 70s. I believe all points of view deserve respect and further analysis. I'm really glad I found your Blogging Theology Channel, it is much appreciated by me...keep up the good work.

[@areal1853]

OJALA (spanish) comes from the Arabic INSHALLAH; more than 7 centuries of islamic and Arab civilisation and influence in the Iberian languages and cultures. 100%. Dale Martin is a muslim deep down. The historical Jesus is only supported by the islamic account of Jesus. This is where dale Martin due to his familial and formative relationship to Christianity means he struggles to reconcile the truth with the historical. And, of all the words to give an example of as to a miscellany of meanings. He used the word inshallah. This is a wondrous example of the sincerity of decent people of faith. great moments, Paul in this video.

[@mohamadayoub7094]

Mr. paul and Mr. Dale. Jesus celebrated the passover because he was hoping for God to save him. Jesus was a believer in God and a follower of the law of Moses. In Exodus 12:13 God tells the Israelites "The blood shall be a sign for you on the houses where you live: when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and no plague shall destroy you when I strike the land of Egypt. I believe that is the main reason Jesus celebrated the passover and made it the last thing he did before his alleged arrest. I believe Christians completely miss that!

[@ajk5884]

What I learn after hearing Christians speak about Jesus: HOW THE HECK DOES THIS HELP ME IN MY LIFE?

[@diegotomasarene-morley7249]

He’s saying people don’t have one identity! A wonderful paradox

[@Mahad921]

Dale just invented his own version of the historical Christian narrative by making the holy ghost the centre of the story

[@nasserm.nasser5087]

Dr. Dale sees his integrity and scholarship to people to be more important than his integrity to God. He fears the creations more than the Creator Even though his belief about jesus does not match with the true historical Jesus, he still follows blindly. If the scholars follow blindly, what about the layperson. That is why most people of the hellfire will be BLAMING their forefathers, leaders, community etc for being in hellfire.

[@abdulbaari5743]

Amazing talk learn so much keep it up Paul May Allah bless you and everyone who sees this and may this make your faith strengthen for the coherence of Islam. Alhamdulillah for islam ❤️

[@momonasri8611]

Dr Dale Martin believe in Jesus PBUH is similar to what Islam teaches about Isa (Jesus) PBUH but he seems bit confused about the historical Jesus vs the what Christians believe Jesus to be, and also does God really existence or to define God as is. I wonder why he didn’t checked Islam.

[@ish007]

Brother Paul please keep the beard. Wallahi you look really good in it.

[@elijahadeleye_followChrist]

Dr Dale, good to hear from you and seen your present look😮.... The voice is still the same anyways

[@faisalwho]

Paul! I know about ohala from my Spanish class! It is an actual variation/evolutuon "oh Allah". The Spanish language absorbed this term from the Spanish Muslims. Edit: read up on it: "Ojalá derives from the Arabic expression 'ma sha Allah' meaning should God will it. This gives it a translation of 'hopefully', 'let’s hope so' or 'if only'."

[@brianbucher1313]

Mark chapter one equates Jesus with God Almighty as well...

[@Harris.Z]

Why is Dale still a Christian while knowing all this information about contradictions in the bible etc..

[@tobi4637]

just remember this..abu talib live side by side with prophet Muhammad..yet we know what happen to him..

[@boxerfencer]

He says why, postmodernism.

[@boxerfencer]

@David Isa best attested? Rofl!

[@boxerfencer]

@David Isa did Jesus write the gospels? Any of them? Were they written during his lifetime? Under his supervision? What's so best attested of the gospels? Their contradictions?

[@ultrahd3388]

{Have you seen he who took his desire for a god? With knowledge, Allah has led him astray, setting a seal upon his hearing and heart, and has made a veil over his eyes, who then shall guide him after Allah? Will you not then remember! (23)} surah 45.

[@amitkumar-wj8gn]

These discussions are nothing less than miraculous (pun intended) for atheists like me. Get to learn so much about the holes in typical Christian theological narratives, while similar channels show the gaping holes in the standard Islamic narrative. Thank you BT :). You make us atheists with more knowledge of religion than most theists. ;)

[@jdlc903]

Well what are the theological holes in Islam? If anything this channel makes the case for Islam.

[@amitkumar-wj8gn]

@@jdlc903 exactly. This channel does, others don't. There are enough channels which do that, including ex-Muslims, non-Muslim and quite a few Christian polemics. Gotta love KZbin. :?

[@nu-nisamiracle2401]

@@amitkumar-wj8gn yeah so, what's the theological holes in islam? 🤔

[@WelcomeToTheRezvolution]

Don't worry, plenty of others put holes into the atheist paradigm. You've guys got bigger issues than Christianity.

[@amitkumar-wj8gn]

@@nu-nisamiracle2401 m sure if you look, you will find. I am unaware of your ideology so it will be wrong to suggest. The last thing I want to do is start arguing with religious people. Thank you.

[@richman8082]

Send a link to DW

[@emmashsu]

Maybe Jesus and Paul didn’t advocate for divorce to discourage marriage

[@VandalIO]

Dale martins rendition of historical Jesus is so Islamic ! I just wonder why don’t they believe !

[@ConsideringPhlebas]

Why is it when a liberal scholar says "the New Testament isn't reliable about the historical Jesus," Muslims hear the words "the Qur'an is totally reliable on the historical Jesus."

[@VandalIO]

@@ConsideringPhlebas Quran doesn’t contradicts ! And quranic Jesus is more plausible!

[@ConsideringPhlebas]

@@VandalIO The Quran is full of contradictions and no secular scholar believes the Quran is remotely reliable on who Jesus was. Even Dale Martin in this interview specifically says that only the Canonical Gospels, the 'sayings' Gospel of Thomas and authentic Pauline letters provide credible historical information about Jesus. Really? The Quranic Jesus is more plausible from a historical perspective? The talking new-born Jesus who makes living birds from clay like in the Infancy Gospel of Thomas?

[@AmmaraSHAH773377]

@@ConsideringPhlebas there obviously will be reports of the miracles in the Bible. I actually need to learn them all as its difficult to remember from school. Actually i don't think in the uk we ever went through more than walk on water or the healing miracles and of course i will differentiate between the mucous in the Qur'an from the Bible. What's truly a shame is that the jewish people tried to discredit him and crucify him in the way the people Cursed by God were and still deny him or worse, curse him.

[@hashh2019]

@@matthewpaulson6497 And Jesus warned people of false prophets coming in his name and doing miracles im his name.

[@megasp]

What annoys me about some of these professors of Christianity is that they are honest on the critique of the Bible but they stop there, they don't go past that as if there is no revelation (even if they don't believe in it) after The Bible as if there's nothing that reconciles the problems In the Bible but there is the Quran and Sunnah which is authentic to the highest of standards.

[@nicolascarrion5055]

Ojalá, as many other words in Spanish, comes from Arabic, law sha'a Allah. May God grant that, or God willing, the Islamic heritage on Spanish culture and language is huge. Although I agree to certain degree on it has lost the initial meaning in Arabic, when said in Spanish, the substance of it, it is still religious, the Din is on it even if people are unaware of its meaning. Normally people say it as good will for wishes to come true, but I agree with Mr Martin, language can be translated, but some times to the most equivalent form to the translated destination language, losing part of the actual meaning on the process.

[@patricksee10]

The census issue is quite controversial and not settled

[@SaritaPatel-uq9tq]

Why did Dr dale sell his books?

[@rakyat_jelata_]

Crystal clear..

[@mrshodz]

Great interview. Can you do video about Emmanuel Kant for lay people?

[@BloggingTheology]

yes one day inshallah

[@evelucky5539]

I love the lectures of Dr. Dale. Profound and realistic ❤

[@AshK1999]

That ending was just sad. After spending an entire lifetime studying the professor has a concept of god that isn’t dissimilar to that of an agnostic who believes in a higher power but won’t commit to anything beyond that. 😕

[@Roseblindbags123]

Why do Christians say the Bible is the word of God when its a compilation of commentary? Am I wrong, I haven't "really" read the bible.

[@fikarrusdiawan9562]

It contains the Word of God, that should be a worthy claim.

[@samiogkv1780]

About the diet of John the Baptist eating locusts. I would not be surprised. In Saudi Arabia there are bedouins who eat locusts. They say it's delicious

[@micoberss5579]

Spanish "ojala" is from inshaallah

[@craigfairweather3401]

The Gospel of John explains Jesus’ identity in terms of a representative: he speaks God’s words, does work that follows what God wants him to do, Looked after disciples that God gave him, explained and revealed God. This is the language of a envoy, subservient to God not identical in substance and history. Trinitarian definitions are not a part of ‘John’. John can be perfectly well understood in a Socinian Unitarian manner.

[@AshK1999]

“Alaha” in Spanish for God willing may lend its roots to Muslim Spain and “in sha Allah” in Arabic.

[@abdulmalik_al-habeshi]

1:06:50 okhala comes from the Arabic in sha Allah

[@日本-i1v]

51:00

[@elijahadeleye_followChrist]

But to this, Dr Dale haven't told us to open the Bible to confirm because he may be lying to us..... You will understand this if you've taken his lectures.😊😊😊

[@janvanpoppel2814]

Dr. Martin and others like Dr. Ehrmann take the position that Jesus would not speak any Greek other than a few words. From Nazareth the Roman city of Sepphoris is walking distance. During Jesus life this city was being reconstructed and being a "tekton", a skilled craftsman this must have been a valuable source of income. He would have been there in close contact with Greek speaking citizens and would have spoken enough Greek to do the work required. Obviously that is something else as having deep philosophical discussions, but nonetheless.

[@hogbenfan]

I guess when Prof Martin says Jesus' mother and brother are named, he means they were named Maryam and Ya'aqov