The History Of Immersive Sims | Part Two | Arkane Studios

[@RX-NoName]

Arkane studios legit are cursed. Beside the first dishonored (and mostly because people thought it was an open world) , EVERY games they did had meh sales or even low sales. And yet they do god tier games.

[@thisismysuperawesomeusername]

Not as cursed as Obsidian, look at their history and it's genuinely heartbreaking considering how phenomenal their games are

[@the_numb_skull]

The genre that kills studios. Immersive Sims are amazing player choice driven games, but they are far more expensive to make, and aren’t as easily accessible for “casual” gamers, that’s why Bioshock Infinite was the way it was, it wasn’t an immersive sim at its core, which is why it sold so well, it was easily accessible, and understandable. Prey, Dishonored, the modern Deus Ex games they all failed because they were expensive to make, and aren’t easily accessible to a mass audience, the only people who play immersive sims, are immersive sim fans, and that is unfortunate.

[@vulrect8176]

@@the_numb_skull BioShock Infinite had to be simplified because of 7th gen consoles while both Prey and Dishonored 2 had almost nonexistent marketing

[@bruhtholemew]

@@vulrect8176 Prey also got a ton of negativity due to people upset it wasn't a sequel to that Quake clone from 2006 that uses the same name.

[@vulrect8176]

@@bruhtholemew Yea, I remember that too

[@arenkai]

Posting this the day right after Raphael Colantonio announces his return to the video game scene with his own indie studio is poetic

[@tofuelemental6920]

arenkai sauce?

[@ChrisSmout]

Fantastic news!

[@arenkai]

www.gamesindustry.biz/amp/2019-11-20-arkane-veterans-launch-wolfeye-a-small-studio-making-big-games

[@yunix2396]

Lookout for Weird West! T'was shown at Game Awards.

[@Qladstone]

Weird West is releasing soon folks!

[@Rafa-Silva-Alt]

Finally I'm watching this and playing Prey as well. Finishing Dishonored before and played a bit of System Shock 1/2 (and ofc all the Deus Ex between another games), I must say that: Prey is the most interesting game I played in my entire life. It has a distinct vibe, yet have so much of several games I love, you can even find some Alien and Dead Space vibes from it. The fact that it's not mission based (with places you can't go back later) and you start discovering more and more the more you explore Talos I, made this is a really fascinating game. I'm totally perplexed by it.

[@jinkisaragi874]

There was a lot of negativity surrounding prey at release, i almost didn't bought it untill some reviewer said that it is like system shock. I thought for a long time that it is just a bad FPS and thats why people hate on it , after i played it i completly stoped to listen to people online. The game was so good i thought these people must be crazy.

[@sirprintalot]

I wasn't a big fan of Prey, especially compared to Dishonored. Had some clever ideas but it was just one of those games I couldn't connect with. Still had an interesting few hours with it.

[@Rafa-Silva-Alt]

@@sirprintalot Glad you liked a least a lil' bit. The game is much more clever and well thought than a first look, it's secretly the most intelligent game I ever played. But I can openly admit it's far from perfect and probably not everyone's cup of tea. For me it's good because of the sci-fi theme which I like a lot. Cheers,

[@oliverdowning1543]

Well, Dead Space did start out as System Shock 3 which given Prey also earned that nickname the connections are definitely there

[@ShahStark]

Prey and the Dishonored series are straight up some of my favorite games of all time. God bless Arkane :)

[@fabrice9848]

Amen

[@Qladstone]

God bless WolfEye studios.

[@messiah2203]

Harvey Smith was right about Invisible War. When I was but a young console player it blew my mind. Maybe I didn't know any better, but it was my first immersive sim.

[@abstr4cted496]

Same here. It opened me to rpg's in general I was mostly into hack and slash games. Actually hated the game at first and finally played it a year after and got hooked and never looked back.

[@JarlFrank]

Dishonored 2 is one of my favorite games of all time. The level design is just 10/10 throughout the board. Each level has a distinct feel to it, and some levels are utterly insane masterpieces. Clockwork Manor, Stilton's Manor with the time travel mechanic, the museum with its large central hall, the duke's Grand Palace... completely awesome.

[@RudCh01]

33:43 In tears laughing, I cannot begin to estimate the amount of time I spent chasing and trying to catch seagulls, cats, and those spritely little roombas.

[@shalaskaja452]

Finally, was waiting for that second part eagerly

[@matricious]

... the best is yet to come 🤯

[@mikeryan1043]

@@matricious Imo Arkane is lightyears ahead of Irrational when it comes to Immersive Sims. But Bioshock 1 and 2 are pretty good though.

[@EtCeteraTape]

Check out part 3... Is it still happening or did you have to cancel it for some reason?

[@ryanwhitaker4444]

Maybe he's waiting for Cyberpunk.

[@EtCeteraTape]

@@ryanwhitaker4444 May be. Haven't thought of Cyberpunk as Immersive Sim, although I can easily imagine it being quite open-ended.

[@pretty_fly_for_a_jeskai]

@@ryanwhitaker4444 *comments that aged poorly*

[@itzalion]

@@EtCeteraTape Well, now it is out, and the world is shallow and immersion breaking, doesn't feel like immersive sim for me.

[@bruhtholemew]

​@@itzalion It's not an immersive sim. It's an Ubisoft Farcry, not made by Ubisoft.

[@Maggerama]

On the unrelated note: Underrail, Disco Elysium. Would really love to hear your thoughts on these babes.

[@StratEdgyProductions]

Bro, I can't wait to finally sit down and play those games through. The overseers at KZbin keep me on a treadmill though so I can't really play games that aren't a part of a video, or my views tank, like what you are seeing in this video. 60k last video, 4 k this vid. I hope things change because those two games are seriously fucking good and I really want to talk about them, as well as outerworlds.

[@Maggerama]

@@StratEdgyProductions No pressure, man! Just wanted to make sure that you're aware of them. With videos like this one the waiting is sweet anyway. I, for one, had no idea that Avellone worked on Prey, holy shit. The guy is Gandalf!

[@bearwolffish]

If Underrail had a proper cover mechanic, or even better Jagged Alliance style crouch and prone system as well as cover, it might have been my favorite example of the genre ever. As it is I stay away from guns in that game, and others like it largely. I always adored Jagged Alliance for it's contribution to isometric combat mechanics, and still relish as deep an RPG as Underrail or fallout 1 and 2, but with the combat mechanics of a JA2.

[@skullking6017]

I hope someday part 3 comes out!

[@Pantalaymo]

Another da... two months, another engaging and relaxing breakdown of Game Development-Lore. Great job, as usual!

[@palchristianandersen9086]

I feel like Arkane is the first studio on the chopping block once Zenimax runs out of goodwill. I'm worried they've already started tightening the leash and their next game is going to have some kind of multiplayer gimmick to it.

[@Qladstone]

Yup, you're completely right. Deathloop has an adversary that can (optionally) be controlled by another human player. Redfall is a 4-player coop game. That's probably why Raf and some other team members left Arkane to create WolfEye studios. You should check our their game Weird West which is releasing soon.

[@Naurto58]

@@Qladstone Sadly, weird west was also a dissapointing game overall. It was fun, but very basic in terms of what they were trying to achieve. It was a quasi immersive sim experience.

[@oliverdowning1543]

​@@Qladstone yeah, Deathloop was pretty good but while I personally don't mind Redfall the reviews speak for themselves. Kinda feels like (for some reason) Bethesda just *wanted* a repeat of Wolfenstein: Youngblood.

[@notaninquisitor7274]

You do the Emperor's work. Great stuff!

[@StratEdgyProductions]

For the emperor!

[@LordKohaegan]

Dishonored is still my favorite game ever and I've been gaming since the mid 80s. Everything about it is just plain perfection, Dishonored 2 was great as well, but it just didn't have the magic the first Dishonored did to make it perfect.

[@ashmitpattnayak8060]

I'm still waiting for that part 3...

[@spookyoddity312]

I LOVE that Rav is used as background music, i absolutely love his work and during the dishonored segment, which is my favorite game

[@thesummerofmark]

Great video! Been following your channel on and off for some time, but for some reason, this is the first time I stumbled into your series about Immersive Sims. I absolutely love Arkane Studios, and even though they’ve received their fair share of praise and their games went on to become cult classics, I still feel we kind of take them for granted. There’s no other studio of their size that make the kind of games Arkane develops. I’m still baffled that a studio such as Arkane exists in a AAA industry that shies away from experimentation.

[@WastelandSeven]

Strat-Edgy drops video, I watch video. Great one man. Enjoying the series!

[@g.hollis1785]

Great video man. Top notch stuff

[@junior1388666]

Just watched part 1 and 2 back to back. Will be eargaly waiting for part 3!

[@feufolli]

28:11 Did this mimic just took damage from the fall of that apple?

[@goldeklee]

Not just any apple either, a mimic disguised as an apple

[@bboy32167]

Dark messiah is one of my favorite games

[@nomercy8989]

I'm guessing the next video is about Irrational? I'm going to be completely honest I never thought Bioshock was a proper immersive sim. Something about the Bioshock games is just to watered down.

[@mehdimeziri]

Thank you !

[@derzw3rg]

Watered down? I see what you did there. Also I fully agree

[@mehdimeziri]

@@derzw3rg Haha !

[@dudestep]

My girlfriend loved prey so I was said that we should check out bioshock and oh boy did she not like it. It was rough going from being able to use a gloo gun to literally go anywhere to then not be able to move past a chair that's blocking you. It's very shallow.

[@bazzy5644]

@@dudestep You made a mistake playing prey beforehand, there is a reason that is the newer game, hell it did everything bioshock tried to form a gameplay perspective much better. Also the fact that they quite literally wanted that to be a system shock game and we had email leaks calling it that speaks for itself. Bioshock is a story game, not an immersive sim.

[@urulai]

Few genres draw my eye as much as immersive sims do and for that I'm almost endlessly fascinated by their design.

[@smartbluecat]

Super awesome as always. :) Thanks for this.

[@Sparrowbatics]

Welcome back! Video was awesome as always. Keep up the great work!

[@old_scaly]

Where is part three? Was it taken down?

[@AlucardNoir]

Look who's still kicking. Great video, then again, when have you done one that wasn't great?

[@sauenrolf]

Wasn't aware that immersive sim is a genre, but I've enjoyed a lot of the games mentioned in these two vids. Thank you for the good content!

[@unfa00]

Is there no part 3? I cannot find it anywhere...

[@TomMcMorrow]

I now know my favorite genre is called immersive sim. Because Dishonored and Prey are my two favorite games ever. I learned something new!

[@bruciekibbutz2947]

so immersive sims went from being vast worlds with many characters with diverging outcomes to space stations with varying combat skill choices. great.

[@apictureoffunction]

Wow way to sum up Prey completely wrong, you obviously haven't played it for more than 20 minutes

[@bruciekibbutz2947]

​@@apictureoffunction I haven't played Prey, I was just commenting on the content of the video. So it's a vast world and not a space station? It has many characters? Better tell the video maker to redo the video then because he portrayed the opposite.

[@Vbreezy33]

hey man i just recently found your channe and am close to watching every video, its great stuff. not only is the video game insight and commentary great, but so are you, and your personality and deeper meanings. keep it up!

[@caelcampbell5194]

Rad video man! I feel like you're the only person on KZbin who plays games through the same mind as I do.

[@apictureoffunction]

Prey is one of my favorite games ever and Arkane's best IMO. I wish it sold better because it's an incredible immersive sim and the systems are amazing and fun

[@StephanBayless]

That intro though 🔥

[@garchomowner]

Raf's game announcement makes me hyped for AAA boot licking farce that is the game awards.

[@jarlnicholl1478]

Spare us. I have no love for these awards nor for anything they represent, but Breath of the Wild was legit awesome and it is anything but the typical Nintendo reiteration of the same formula.

[@trashman8080]

@MrNahual2099 did you even try the goddamn game? Its literally ripped some pages outa dishonored in terms of systemic gameplay.

[@thegurkenkaiser9933]

thanks for your videos! i just found about that this genre exists. I played Prey just recently and it was one of the best gaming expiriences in my almost 30 years of gaming.

[@monishvj5172]

uh where can I find Part 3?

[@sativaburns6705]

Is there no part 3? I'm not seeing it listed.

[@justsomeperson5110]

"Please Sir, I want some more." Part 3, please. Super-duper like ++!

[@leesmith3989]

Your content is superb. The 2 videos on the history of immersive sims earned a sub from me. I sincerely hope there will be a part 3 at some point in the future?

[@mikeryan1043]

Holy shit, somehow I haven't even heard of Colantonios resignation from Arkane. It's sad but understandable. Plus, he founded Wolfeye Studios, so let's see how his ideas will unfold in a more flexible Indie Studio. Great video, as always!

[@kameronlavender1478]

You need more subs man. You're one of the best channels on YT

[@chriswhinery925]

These types of games are among my favorite. Prey, Deus Ex, Thief 2, System Shock 2 most likely would all make a list of my top 10 games of all time.

[@Elgar337]

I have a severe case of blue balls. As incredible and informative this series has been, I'm a moron and still just want to fanboy over Bioshock. xD

[@StratEdgyProductions]

I want to too. I have a whole script just sitting around.

[@Elgar337]

@@StratEdgyProductions

[@WarDankEagle]

Mesmerizing work, thank you!

[@oditeomnes]

27:00 "Dispatch enemies in an unintended and sometimes hilarious ways" Oh, you mean StealthgamerBR's youtube career?

[@BorrisChan]

Where the hell is part 3

[@spiderjerusalem100]

Excellent work, i really enjoyed this.

[@StephenYuan]

The problem with immersive Sims is that they look too much like fps games. People buy them expecting one kind of game and think they suck, not realizing it's something else entirely.

[@TheStylogicalMap]

Great series! So much I didn't know about the development of immersive first-person games circa 1985 - 2010, and the relationships between the developers. Although this thread has continued in gaming, it also spawned other markets with completely different audiences, like EverQuest (MMORPGs) and Second Life... and as consequence, these led to the development of prototypical digital economies...wonder if someone will make a doc drawing those connections...

[@MrRodQ]

Good job dude, great in-depth video!

[@ChairmanKam]

3:25 God I love that launch sequence.

[@dawnbylaw]

Great video.Keep up the sophisticated and interesting work.

[@Go_Coup]

It was hilarious to hear them worried about failure when the tester was spending all of their time creating fun at the start of the mission.

[@FairyRat]

Another banger doing the genre due justice.

[@SirSmite]

23:06 - 23:20 “Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh” I couldn’t stop cackling.

[@uhuhuh1966]

A lot of people complaining about Dishonored, I love the game because of the unique art style and level design, how polished & tightly designed the mechanics & powers are, I love zipping around levels, it is most certainly a fun game...but I have to 100% agree that the stealth is not at all polished. There’s no way in telling the player how they’re spotted! I don’t want to see through walls and see enemies’ cones of vision that’s such a cheap mechanic, but they also spot you outside of those cones. All they needed to do was add enemy footsteps to know where enemies are instead of the awful see through walls power, which is a power that has to be purchased/unlocked by the way! It would’ve been great if they had incorporated light & shadows and a light gem as well, I don’t think anyone would have cared that it would be aping Thief because it would’ve made the overall game and stealth much better. Also the story is very poorly told, bad voice acting and stiff boring writing I didn’t care about any of the characters, even if I thought the world and history were very cool.

[@allenpate4515]

Especially since they added the survival options this game is still awesome to this day i still play it

[@gloriousmfka1122]

This is awesome man

[@michael_the_idea]

Where's part 3 at??

[@DooBieReBeL]

Please post a part 3

[@bearwolffish]

Been waiting months for this to drop, and you are yelling me it came out 3 days ago. lol. I'm subbed but I guess I gotta ring that bell.

[@dragoneye6229]

I like how you included things the developers said. It confirmed something I thought long ago. Sometimes devs are not infallible and sometimes the publisher is actually a good force on game development. It's easy to say publishers kill games but Mighty No. 9 was loved by very few people and only hard line fans who bought in with tons of money still try to convince people it's an amazing game despite being far beneath even the first Megaman X title. I also learned that Megaman had a lot of publisher influence placed on it. Granted it became crap it took how many sequels to get there? One could chalk that up to running out of ideas to be used in a similar way, as every game was running, jumping, and shooting. You are bound to run out of ideas that can be used in that vein after a while.

[@jinkisaragi874]

Megaman 11 was awesome as hell though.

[@thisismysuperawesomeusername]

Due to all this going on atm, I have finally had the chance to sit down and play Bioshock which I've avoided spoilers for for years. I must admit i did thoroughly enjoy it and am going through the 2nd one while also doing my annual Dishonored franchise playthrough so I cannot wait for the Irrational video that will more than likely come next. Considering the first part of this series is how I found the channel.

[@M00000oooo00000]

i was in a different tab when i heard him say "conspicuously placed spike racks" heh i bet thats might and magic tab back in nailed it

[@lucienderthel338]

whats that song in the beginning that plays after he says "massive" ?

[@45Redhood]

no part 3?

[@nuclearpuddle4664]

Doing a great job bro

[@samanderson806]

Damn, I like that chopped up Lonnie Liston Smith in the background. We seem to have the same taste in games and music. All the games you bring up in the immersive sim videos are exactly whats installed on my laptop. Why is Theif: dark project still the best game?!

[@MaskofPoesy]

I appreciate the sheer amount of context you have researched here. Must've taken alot of effort.

[@zombiezedtwin12]

Wheres part 3 strat i want to hear more

[@TheSuperQuail]

Immersive sims are just 'too good' for most gamers who are scared off by player choice and being made to think about how they approach a situation.

[@Predalien195]

I dont think that's the case. It's really more that usually there's nothing to grab people's attention. It's like watching a slow burn movie... sure that slow burn may be really awesome. But you spent an hour and twenty minutes in a film that's an hour and thirty five minutes long just to get there. And frankly... not everyone is going to think that payoff was worth it. Sometimes you end up with a question of... What am I doing? Or better yet... Why am I doing all this? And when you realize the answer is "Because you can!", then you realize you can also just not play the game for the exact same reason and it's often just as rewarding to the individual. I don't mind immersive sims if there is a plot that can grab my attention or it's based on a subject I find interesting. While by no means the best RPG or Immersive game in the world and definitely not without it's faults... Kingdom Come: Deliverance was the last game I enjoyed that had immersive aspects. It's based on a time frame in history I'm familiar with and the story was well written. I know people like to complain about how "empty" the map was when not in a town or near one. But take your ass out to the woods and you'll find it's pretty empty too. This idea that every area has to be populated with something to kill, loot, look at, or etc is just people who dont go outside much I'd say. Still, it just depends on how you as a person approach things and what you find fun. The reality for me is just most immersive games can't hold my attention as they seem to base everything on "Because you can" without giving me good cause of "Why I Should".

[@lucifer2b666]

@@Predalien195 Totally why I can't get into games like that. I like some RPGs with lots of dialogue but not so much games that are immersive sim types that he describes in the video. Fallout 1, 2, and New Vegas in my opinion are masterpieces in the genre of RPGs despite each of their short comings.

[@Predalien195]

@@lucifer2b666 Immersion for me means that I actually believe my character is in the setting being portrayed. In short, I find the setting to be accurate, historically perhaps or just convincing. FallOut 1, 2, and NV for instance. I believe you are in a post apocalyptic wasteland with out the problems that come with that. FallOut 4 however... I just dont find it as believable comparatively speaking. The Metro games... Same thing, I can believe in that setting and etc. So to me I'm now taking a step into that world via picking up the controller or mouse and keyboard. Then there's games like ARK where I'm supposed to believe in this world but simply just dont feel any kind of reason to. Immersion shouldnt be "make me do mundane tasks in this world to believe in it". So often yeah I just avoid the types of games mentioned above as they often times just plain arent fun and that's the point of a game. It's supposed to be fun... if you want to take the fun out of it and do things like you got to do in the real world then just wake up, do house work, go to work, and all that shit and say "I'm playing an immersive game".

[@Predalien195]

@Pangolinstirfrylungjuicecough Well again, my idea of immersion is different. If I can believe in the setting you place me in and I can believe the character being played is a product of that world, that's immersion. In the shooter world, games like Tannenberg are considered "Realistic" and "Immersive" because it captures WW1 tactics and speed fairly well or at least what most would consider to be. So, when playing one could "believe" they are in the time period set for them to play in. VS say Battlefield 1, while a good game in it's own right... the appearances, weapons, and other aspects fail to suspend your disbelief. Immersion for me is much like a movie. If you want to set it in a post apocalyptic landscape... While nobody here truly has ANY idea how things would actually be as it has yet to happen, some ideas/concepts are grounded a bit more in reality and thus are more believable. Fall Out games are like that for me. I never felt the character's were disconnected with the people they met so much as it was a product of the environment. You live in a world where raiders, mutants, and other dangers exist. You live in isolated communities and have a low sense of trust for strangers. It's no surprise you dont just hit it off with everyone you meet and vice versa. That's believable to me given the setting. Everyone has their ideas about what immersion is how deep it needs to go. These are just mine.

[@maartenboy37]

NO MENTION OF BIOSHOCK?! Anyway great video yet again mate.

[@JamesLaserpimpWalsh]

Great stuff as ever.

[@boburrides]

I would kill for an Arx Fatalis sequel..

[@RainMakeR_Workshop]

Is there no part 3?

[@ExtremalMetal]

come on KZbin, whip out your algorithms and get this video some views

[@jeffreykbennett]

Did part 3 ever release?

[@zlodrim9284]

Fuck yeah, been waiting for this one.

[@Kleptari]

Is part 3 cancelled? It's been almost a year and I don't see it.

[@ChrissyCourtney]

fantastic video

[@Olimpico230]

I loooooved this video.

[@F2t0ny]

Great stuff

[@hueypancakes597]

@20:22 Is the title card supposed to be Half-Life 2 or Dark Messiah?

[@Feilongy]

Whats that intro song? please?

[@MrXiphix]

your closing hits so much harder now that arkane released redfall. RIP arkane. Maybe one day we can get a prey 2 that has as much depth as the first, but i doubt it will be from arkane.

[@jillsandwitch67]

the future of immersive sims is definitely in the indie scene, idk if we'll ever get a true AAA imm sim ever again

[@feufolli]

20:20 Anybody knows how to get this game? I can't found it amongst the results for Half Life with Gordon Freeman.

[@PseudonymsAreGovnoYaEbalGoogle]

It's Dark Messiah.

[@Icemage17]

Dude, I don't get why you're not more popular. You write and talk better than 99% of similar content. I'm liking every video.

[@rainwatertea]

What a fantastic content

[@RainMakeR_Workshop]

To be fair to Romero, its wasn't him who made, or even wanted that slogan for Daikatana. Its was some idiot in marketing. Romero repeatedly said he never liked it and actively tried to have it removed. But the suits will be suits.

[@Habiyeru]

The first door code in literally every Immersive Sim is 0451. Not kidding.

[@justaguy7831]

Cant wait for next gen ps5 games in the immersive sim genre with the better physics and Artificial intelligence.

[@MrZabersuv]

prey and mooncrash are fucking incredible

[@kudo7821]

In regards to PREY, don’t forget Danielle Sho aka SHODAN

[@Alexrider02]

Holy shit, talk about foot-in-mouth after telling that Japanese developer about dropping the nuke. Good lord, I would have died.

[@maartenboy37]

If Prey would have been called Neuralshock, it would have sold much better.

[@mattroxursoul]

Strange story. Most bosses do not want to hear the truth about things.