The Rise, Fall, Death, and Rebirth of the Immersive Sim

[@CharlatanWonder]

pastebin.com/WgnafgSv WORKS CITED IN ORDER OF APPEARANCE!!!

[@CharlatanWonder]

There was also like 50 or so other secondary sources that aren't directly cited while I'll make another list for in a bit. STAY TUNED!

[@ericazahn9689]

I have bought prey on xbox. When have they but it of stores?

[@albertgore7435]

Erica Zahn wat

[@CoronaMage]

Scarcity always equates to relative value. The more uncommon something is, the more valuable it becomes. When Immersive Sims become uncommon, the ones that stick around become more influential and draw more attention. Personally I like things this way. It's highly preferable to having countless low-quality Immersive Sims saturating the market. A few nuggets of gold is way better than several thousand tons of feces.

[@Theopheus]

I'm actually interested in what you have to say but there's no way in hell I'm sitting through a movie length youtube video.

[@drakep.5857]

Immersive sims never die. They just temporarily get stuck on the hacking minigame.

[@wlacsilbalazs]

I wish I could give more like to this comment!

[@pyrojinn]

Time to reinstall Bioshock, Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines, Deus Ex, Deus Ex Human Revolution, Deus Ex Mankind Divided, System Shock 2..

[@CaveyMoth]

@@pyrojinn No one ever appreciates System Shock 1. =\

[@lakkakka]

@Greg. Imsim

[@maverickdarkrath4780]

They kept getting impossible puzzles from the bioshock 1 hacking minigames

[@matrix255]

When a company provides no legal way of acquiring a piece of software, is considered abandonware. So don't feel bad if you need to "pirate" an ISO.

[@DoratTheKiller]

@Ole-Martin Thorsen Exactly

[@8Delian8]

There is no reason to feel bad to pirate games in general. Piracy has helped by any metric. I pirated games because i simply can't afford them in Eastern Europe, and buy those that are good for me on sale later to give the devs some cash and get the actual license and a permanent source to get the game, since pirated versions fade out usually. Overlord Gaming has some videos on that. Also using stupid software like Denuvo to your game from piracy is only harmful to consumers, the pirates get rid of it and give you a better experience.

[@VittamarFasuthAkbin]

@@8Delian8 copying content that someone else has put work into is a good reason to feel bad. Same thing as stealing someones design, game, movie, music. How about just buy it right away, instead of trying to argue for stealing content? The right lies with the owner, sounds like being a big asshole infringing on that right because "it helps". I don't want that my things get copied if I don't allow it, since I invested the work into it. Just because someone doesn't like my price/content/idea this is not an invitation to break the law. It's pretty weird how people try to justify piracy.

[@keyboardstalker4784]

@Vittamar Akbin, if a commodity is practically infinite, and can theoretically be copied an infinite number of times then it should be up to the company to provide a good reason to buy the game as opposed to piracy. Nobody should feel bad for piracy in cases where it’s easier to play a pirated copy than to buy the game, and especially in cases where people with a pirated copy arguably have more ownership over the software than people who purchased the game. such is the case with games that need to connect to a centralized server even in solo play, or games with particularly invasive DRM.

[@VittamarFasuthAkbin]

@@keyboardstalker4784 I heard this reason many times. The company decides how the game look like. If you don't agree with that, you can't just break the law to suit your needs. If they design it a certain way, it is their choice and their concept on how to use it. Why not just give all movies out for free then? Pirates argue the same way here as well. It is still their choice of DRM in how they want to design the game. Imagine stealing water from a supermarket if it is endless anyway in a western country with good rainfall. This is not an argument with the playerbase to make a agreement to "please not copy our game". You don't steal a design or drawing as well just because it doesn't fit your personal taste.

[@beckettgray9515]

Imersive sim *dies* Jc Denton: *lip smack* what a shame

[@hajimeokajima]

Underrated comment.

[@Uzzmauzz]

It was a good genre. What a rotten way to die.

[@jackp492]

@@Uzzmauzz that got me

[@lucascoval828]

@@Uzzmauzz Genre or design philosophy?

[@Uzzmauzz]

@@lucascoval828 if i say «It was a good design philosophy. What a rotten way to die», it would be cumbersome and destroy the joke

[@perryborn2777]

Prey 2017 is one of the best gifts I ever gave someone I had been playing it on my computer, and was having a great time with it. Christmas time was coming around, and I bought a PS4 copy for my oldest brother. He got into it really quickly, and it became his favorite in about a week. Had a fantastic time nerding out with him over the game, and watching him explore Talos station

[@TheSuperQuail]

I'd argue that Bioshock is NOT an immersive sim but a shooter with a few immersive sim elements. If you're going to class Bioshock as immersive sim then you may as well lump Metro in too.

[@DarthRadical]

Maybe on the spectrum. Or Immersive Sim Lite - which is about what I expect from Cyberpunk 2077.

[@jakedill1304]

yeah basically it should have been, but instead it just ended up being a placeholder in the guys of the real thing for people that didn't know any better... LOL metro thinks it's a Sim... LOL metro thinks it's a fucking tactical shooter too haha.

[@theeternalslayer]

Nah first person shooter horror game basically gameplay like doom 3 only with stealth. On higher difficulties you almost have to be stealthy because 1 or 2 shots can kill you. Although exodus was closer that one is semi open world shooter.

[@DarthRadical]

@@theeternalslayer On higher difficulties of the original Deus Ex basically required you to be stealthy as well. I don't see how that's an argument against it being an immersive sim.

[@theeternalslayer]

@@DarthRadicaldeus ex was action role playing and stealth, outside of some exploration on the surface metro was more like a stealthy call of duty scripted sequences where they take control away from the player, even exodus does this so it'd be a reach to call any of them immersive sims

[@Juliett-A]

2017 Prey was amazing. I really hope we get a sequel.

[@invicta396]

If you saw 2017 Prey sales, then you shouldn't wait for a sequel...

[@AEGISDEFENSE]

Sans Hacking, Prey is top tier, really damn good. Deus Ex HR and MD are, in comparison to others, the best for hacking mini games...they at least aren’t Bioshock Pipes or the Prey one.

[@kinagrill]

I dun get the reason people found Prey lackluster. It was GREAT. I might just be a bit duller on the uptake on things, but I didn't catch onto the fact that you were just playing a simulation, and that you were just a Phantom exposed to experiences and memories, to see if it could be literally turned into 'Yu'.

[@Sonicbitter100]

I would rather have a sequel to the original prey game. That game was a lot better imo

[@Chris-zi9hf]

@@kinagrill I didnt catch onto it, but once I finished the game I realized that there had been hints throughout portions of the game, which I thought was great. One of my friends started playing it a while after I showed them some of it over discord. And another person was also in the discord call while my friend was trying it out, and said how the game was a sim, just remembering the first part that was one. I then lied and said how only the first part of the game was a simulation, so that I wouldnt ruin that part and the evidence of it for them.

[@StratEdgyProductions]

Alright, fine. Take my view and my like...

[@Natibert]

you too!

[@nikolaitesla4267]

Fancy seeing you here huh

[@LaJiahao]

Who is this fella?

[@RoseKnightTV]

@@LaJiahao this fella is one of the most coherent youtubers out there , you should check him out ( he also dives deep into inmersive sims , rpgs , and gaming history in a whole)

[@jchifos]

All games are for the devil

[@valoulenstein9020]

Fun fact: the studio who did E.Y.E. is called "streumon", which is the reversed word for "monstre", which means monster in French. Here in France, we use a lot of reversed words as slangs.

[@CharlatanWonder]

Interesting, thanks!

[@Biouke]

Yep. And we obviously love immersive sims :)

[@VerdeAntico]

I'm Italian and didn't know that about French slangs; nice to know. In Italy there is no such trend. - ..but what about the "u"?

[@pinkmatter8488]

@@VerdeAntico The u i present to make it spelled exactly as it is pronounced as a slang, as "eu" makes it obvious that you have to accentuate that syllable.

[@VerdeAntico]

@@pinkmatter8488 ok, thanks

[@hijinx752]

Dishonored and Bioshock will always have a special place in my heart ❤️

[@KnifeplayShawty]

I've played and loved so many of these games and never knew the term 'immersive sim' until playing Cruelty Squad oddly enough, which has since become one of my favorites. Great video btw

[@saisameer8771]

Personally, I think the reason why immersive sims fail commercially is because they are usually made by passionate game developers who are not always good businessmen, and games are after all primarily a business. Also, I think the original X Com could be considered an immersive sim. Remember, there is no rule that immersive sim has to be an fps, and all the immersive sims so far have been very different in their genera with the only thing common among them being an emphasis on player freedom and emergent gameplay, something X Com does really well.

[@Johnjay82]

"games are after all primarily a business." - are they? I want to have fun not riding the next trendy things. There should always be "markets" for game designers who want to make really good games without going broke. But I understand what you mean.

[@bobloblaw418]

I think op stating that is a bit premature. System shock 3 is on the way, Prey was very well received.

[@symbolicjohnson7]

I believe, Immersive sim is a type of game which is difficult to market for a mainstream audience. Part of the reason is that most well known games (while doing something new) still use the looking glass blueprints. The core elements(RPG/Dungeon crawling/Stealth) of these games are really niche. wholeheartedly agree on Xcom being an Immersive sim.

[@saisameer8771]

@@symbolicjohnson7 Which is why you market your game for a niche audience. The metro games are a good example. They appeal to a very niche audience and despite that they are pretty successful probably because the devs understand the market. Same with CD projekt red. Old school RPGs don't usually appeal to the mainstream and yet Witcher 3 sold really well and Cyberpunk 2077 is one of the most anticipated games of all time.

[@saisameer8771]

@@bobloblaw418 I thought prey didn't do well financially.

[@BinaryDood]

Mentioning my crippled boy EyE Divine Cybermancy yeeee

[@CharlatanWonder]

I can't be too mean because it was doing the best it could.

[@harbl99]

The French did the best they could. Almost as fun a game as real humans might have created.

[@K162-y1b]

You gain Brouzouf

[@strugglesnuggledslime7040]

He aint crippled,he is just a very special boy...with two crippled legs.

[@joshpeace2673]

God I love that game and I don't know why

[@nocultist7050]

Now are you trying to tell me Gothic and Gothic 2 ain't immersive sims? Also S.T.A.L.K.E.R. is immersive sim while being just a shooter.

[@shweatypalms4423]

Preach it man

[@Heeroneko]

I've just started playing through the Gothic series. It definitely deserved a mention. S.T.A.L.K.E.R. too. I get not seeing them as being 'pure' immersive sims, but...still, I'd argue it's more of one than any of the Bioshock games.

[@harrylawson6293]

1:34:22

[@Zerklass]

He also did Cyberpunk dirty as well. God damn.

[@benlalammohamedrachid3112]

These two games are not immersive sims whatsoever since they both have very little to offer in terms of immergent gameplay and are almost completely focused on combat and combat alone, gothic being an Action RPG and Stalker being a FPS. Not to mention the fact that Stalker offers alot of side quests and secondary content allowing the player to basically ignore the main objective if they want to, which is not something you see in most if not all immersive sims that are much more linear when it comes to objectives.

[@Voxavs]

"It's gonna be a good year for Vampires" Oh, how good this aged XD

[@frankm6546]

a year later for me, why did this comment age well?

[@Yora21]

@@frankm6546 Bloodlinbes 2 is still nowhere to be seen.

[@nomercy8989]

Prey runs on the Cryengine not the void engine

[@syberpunk]

Wow it runs pretty well for me considering it’s on the ShitpileEngine

[@malek0093]

@@syberpunk Trust me, the Cryengine is a wonder compared to the god awful Void Engine, Dishonored 2 still runs like crap even on the best rigs to this day

[@PFFR_YT]

@@malek0093 WAT???🤨Maybe your PC is just peace of crap with pathetic 8 GB RAM?Or what?Dishonored 2 runs well EVEN ON PS4 FAT

[@malek0093]

@@PFFR_YT Calm the fuck down, what the hell is wrong with you? No it doesn't run "well" dumbass, that's just a known fact by now. Why would this offend you in any way? Geez...

[@kahalghafri]

Malek009 alright I've played dishonored 2 and death of the outsider on ps4 and I loved them, now I may be not an expert in this kinda stuff but what do u mean dishonored 2 runs like crap or that the void engine runs like crap?

[@werewolfskumm1058]

you can hot key every ability in EYE it is not all about menus. This is a thing so many new people to EYE do

[@werewolfskumm1058]

that little wheel that shows up when you go to hack in this menu is your hotwheel for abilities

[@atarirob]

people call Deus Ex the 'Best Game Ever Made' and it's still underrated.

[@ultimadum7785]

@Mcarthy Wasright the fact that you un-ironically use the term "red pills" tells me exactly what you really mean. Only conspiracy nuts hide behind dog whistles.

[@atarirob]

@Roger Wilco i have. didn't care for it lol

[@yungml]

@Mcarthy Wasright Calling either HR or MD a failures, from your point presumably because they don't dabble in simplistic right-wing conspiracy nutshit, but explore deep philosophical, humanistic and socio-economic questions, is saying more about you than about these masterpieces. Both of these games are so complex and layered that they deserve so much more recognition. I'm currently playing the original Deus Ex for the first time, and while I am enjoying the gameplay, there are periods of fortnights when I don't even play it because I don't even remember I'm in the middle of it. That's how pulling its simplicity is. I know I shouldn't judge Deus Ex by today's standards, because it is a groundbreaking game for the history of this medium, but some of the things in it are just plain silly, and as this video said, a legacy of distorted "search for truth" X-files type quest (a TV show I adore btw). The story telling of original Deus Ex might've been great in 2001, but if you're stuck in its notions and concepts today, that's just sad

[@DeepInsideZettaiRyouiki]

...for those with limited scope of interest might be... there ar to many good games of diffirent types to give any single one such prize, but whatever. It's my opinion and thats your opinion...and in the end opinions doesn't matter... so lets make it "best game ever made ...FOR ME..." and it's a correct statement.

[@atarirob]

@@DeepInsideZettaiRyouiki Yes, no shit it's my opinion lmao

[@gomeszx98]

1:10:28 Thief(2014) was published by Square Enix, not Ubisoft

[@SAWCON2KXX]

Clicked on the video thinking it was 17 minutes long. Didn’t notice the actual length until it was stated in intermission. Fantastic work on keeping a video of this length that interesting.

[@Trash0815]

Get out of here Stalker...

[@bomric1788]

I LOVE Stalker, but I don't think it counts as there's not really different builds to use in as grand a sense as stealth/magic/combat/etc in the rest of these games.

[@Trash0815]

@@bomric1788 I would disagree the RPG elements are not defining neither Thief nor System Shock 1 have them, and you could make a strong argument that Stalker allows for all the play types those RPG builds grant, you could make an argument though that the open world disqualifies Stalker.

[@messer7450]

@@Trash0815 except its not really an open world, and the different builds come through with factions, armor types, and weapon loadouts in addition to using artefacts to change your builds.

[@TheDrewker]

@@Spr1ggan87 Yeah I'm not really buying into this whole "immersive sim" genre. Too loosely defined - "immersive" is a very subjective word. Game genres are defined in purely objective terms, for that very reason. Nobody can argue about what a "first person looter/shooter" is. *Everybody* _is_ arguing about what an "immersive sim" is (this term is already getting on my nerves). Also, the word "sim" carries a whole bundle of baggage that's not really consistent with any of these games being cited. According to this video, an "immersive sim" is just a first person game with competent writing and gameplay. Why not Half-Life? Or Crysis? How does leveling or character progression make it more "immersive" or more "sim?" In my mind, those things are immersion-breaking, and the opposite of what I would call "sim." ARMA is a pretty "immersive" mil-sim. Are the Metro games "immersive sims?" What about Prey (2016), that should be a shoe-in because the criteria appears to be nothing other than "similarity to Bioshock." I officially hate this term... To me, iRacing and Assetto Corsa are "immersive sims." For one thing, *they are actually sims.* And for two they are immersive as hell, especially in VR. But we don't need to invent hokey new genre terms with elusive definitions.

[@TheDrewker]

@@Spr1ggan87 Uh I didnt say anything about Diablo. But yeah, it's an ARPG. What "creator " coined this term? Doesnt matter, it's still a really bad, really loosely defined genre. If Bioshock is "just an action shooter," SO ARE ALL OF THESE OTHER GAMES. Lmfao, never seen someone destroy their own argument so efficiently. Please, I would love to hear you attempt to dispute the definition of an FPS looter shooter.

[@Inignot12]

Oh man, give it up for E.Y.E. certainly one unique-ass game

[@joshpeace2673]

You gain brunzoft

[@Golemoid]

Not a great game gameplay wise, but the world building and atmosphere were someting else.

[@RaithSienar]

@@Golemoid The gameplay was amazing and kinda the best out of all the games shown, the fuck you talking about?

[@redragon1229]

Your legs are ok, brother

[@RaithSienar]

@@caden1917 that's what I was saying, and actually I'd put the gameplay of EYE above Dishonored 2

[@damazywlodarczyk]

You say that generally immersive sim player characters are of less importance, then you show Deus Ex as example, where the player character is a billion dollar worth wonder of science. Immersive sims are linked by gameplay design not narration or story.

[@xBINARYGODx]

He also states, or perhaps only infers, that if you had all of the gameplay elements needed but were in an open world, that such a game would not count. His requirements are overly specific, and somewhat random. This video is actually kind of atrocious, and not very well researched. Charlatan indeed.

[@d7oomma]

Exactly! It's very clear he put a lot of effort into making this video but his description/interpretation of what Immersive Sims are is lacking at best and just plain wrong at worst. GMTK explained it perfectly in his respective essay video if anyone's interested in the actual philosophy and idea behind Immersive Sims.

[@TheVanillatech]

Actually Damazy you're incorrect. In Deus Ex your character doesn't get the respect that a billion dollar worth of science commands or deserves, because you go ferral 1/6th into the game and then find it difficult to get even hookers or drug dealers to like or aid you. You lose all power except your own, whereby your ACTIONS (ie. the way you play the game) becomes the most important thing. You MAKE the story unfold in Deus Ex, a game which hasn't been surpassed in terms of the genre, and is the most story driven and well written game in the last 2 decades.

[@damazywlodarczyk]

@@TheVanillatech He still is a 6 bln dollar project and the most advanced cyborg.

[@TheVanillatech]

@@damazywlodarczyk If a dog is born in a stable it doesn't make it a horse. Did you read my comment? XD

[@gahmuretvanbegonia994]

system shock 1&2 were by far one of the best games i've ever played, and i grew up in the ps2/ps3 era

[@josephsouza9599]

I absolutely loved this, you can tell a lot of love and care went in to it! Great content plain and simple.

[@silverheart302]

Absolutely wonderful video, here's a comment and a like for some interaction, since these long form videos can really poison the algoritm if they're not watched in their entirety!

[@hannibalcase1100]

Prey 2006 wasn't really an Immersive Sim at all; it was more of a Turok-style classic FPS, pretty much the last gasp of its kind we'd see until the likes of DUSK and Doom 2016. If you wanna look into it, the best bet these days would be tracking down a copy of the Xbox 360 port.

[@807D14M0ND5]

There's 2 completely different games both named Prey. The 2017 one is definitely an immersive sim. Edit: Sorry commented too fast. You're aware.

[@GreyWolfLeaderTW]

I got super lucky and found a complete copy of Prey Limited Edition for Xbox 360, with not only the game, but all the bonus trinkets (pewter figurines) all in it. Of the three Quake Engine 3 games of its era (Doom 3, Quake 4, and Prey), it is the most unique and engaging, but also the most niche and finicky. Humanhead Studios (who made it and other cult classic Rune) definitely were one of the last passionate AA developers of the 2000s. Today they recently went under and reformed as a new studio named Roundhouse.

[@Tuckerslam]

@@GreyWolfLeaderTW Who made Rune 2 then? If you want even more Human Head brand of design, play Heretic 2.

[@BinaryDood]

Pretty sure you can get a steam key at G2A, but do it at your own risk.

[@Vanadium]

@@Tuckerslam after what they did with rune 2 I don't trust them and it didn't help that they go to bethesda. Bethesda was dieing slowly first but then faster and faster after Morrowind was so freaking awesome but Oblivion was awful und Skyrim was even worse , only better graphics and thats it. Compared to morrowind it was really dumbed down. Fallout 3 was so lame I did stop playing it after a few hours. I didn't bother with New Vegas because I didn't looked into who actually made it. I would played that if I had known it. Back to the actual thing :P , the original prey was freaking epic but I also would not call that immersive sim it is more like yeah doom with a much better story. I really liked that story. Remember guys that Prey 2 was being made but then get canceled by failthesda despite it looked awesome?

[@Tysonyar]

Dude, I am only 15 minutes and this is already fantastic! Thank you and great work!

[@thegrimelite]

very good vid man, appreciate the attention that this genre needs in 2019

[@HiddelS143]

Prey 2006 is more of a quake era FPS than an immersive sim anyway

[@KäptnKrückschwank]

Wouldn‘t really call it that, but wouldn‘t compare it to other games in this video either. Anyways, awesome game

[@lilydenton3578]

Thank you so much for your wonderful long and thorough video. I love longplays while I work on stuff and very happy I found this one on my favorite topic. Thank you for your time and patience.

[@MosoKaiser]

47:06 Huh, Bioshock _wasn't_ dumbed down nor felt lesser than previous 'Shock' games? Huh, must be the first time I've heard that. Simplification and dumbing down was *presicely* what happened. Now stuff like the removal of weapon degredation and streamlining of some of the UI was welcome, IMO, but some, like the complete removal of the inventory system, the simplification of researching down to just taking pictures of enemies, ditching of pretty much all RPG type elements like character stats really impacted the general atmosphere and feel of the game. No more Gamepig™ fun, no scrounging around for and hoarding of champagne and potato chips, etc. Granted, inventory managing like in SS2 wouldn't have worked on consoles, and could sometimes be slightly fiddly and tedious on PC too, but that control over one's interactions with the game world did absolyte wonders for the immersion.

[@GreyWolfLeaderTW]

Elements of Bioshock were dumbed down, specifically the lack of inventory and the more linear level design with no incentive to backtrack, but it is college-level immersive sim compared to most first-person shooters. System Shock 2 actually had a weaker Research system than Bioshock because it was literally a countdown timer that only required you to have a single stat in Research (or the LabAssist Implant) and one or two chemicals in inventory at specific progression bar points). At least Bioshock's Film system, obviously inspired by Pokemon Snap, encourages you to take photos in real-time to increase your damage buffs against foes and unlock passive buff plasmids. Most shooters don't have a guns-n-magic system where abilities and weapons play off and support each other, multiple ammo types for guns, a story that is told through every dimension of the game, level design, art style, audio logs, readables, character dialogue interaction, and so on. The passive plasmids system is certainly a step more towards the perk-based RPG system Call of Duty 4 introduced and away from classic numeral based stats, but you could mix and match with five or more plasmids rather than just three perks that exclude you from using other perks of the same tier.

[@underscore_535]

I felt the lack of inventory helped immersion, as there was no "oh no I'm dying lemme just stop time and chug cola to save myself", and on demand healing was mostly relegated to the hoarding of a single resource: the first aid kits. This streamlined the system, and made the eating of food be a small, incremental healing method to be taken when between fights rather than an in fight crutch.

[@innoclarke7435]

@@underscore_535 Have you ever played System Shock 2? Fucking about in the inventory doesn't stop time. So if you're out of med hypos and want to heal yourself mid-combat, you gotta be quick to open it up, find exactly the item you're looking for, and use it before you get booty-blasted.

[@joshholland90]

@@innoclarke7435 I think he is saying that that type of system breaks immersion because no person in a combat situation would pull bandages out of their backpack and begin to administer them on themselves while a flesh hungry mutant is trying to bash their brains in with a pipe. Having to perform such a strange action for the sake of gameplay reduces immersion. I could be wrong but that is my interpretation.

[@innoclarke7435]

@@joshholland90 not a bad interpretation, but if that's his point, it still fail s because in both games, health items can instantly heal you mid-fight. Bioshock therefore doesn't improve immersion by removing the inventory system.

[@CharlatanWonder]

I wasn't expecting this to uploaded as fast as it did but I guess that means I don't have to worry about it cutting too close.

[@Vanadium]

good stuff man but I would consider Star Citizen also a Immersive Sim. Like other freaking games on this list it is in the making for a long time and no freking publisher will fuck them till they doing it them self eventually. I hope they get it done, I played and seeing enough to trust them . This is what I ever wanted since I first played X-Wing back in the 90s.

[@noblephoenix6151]

Also Outerworlds, but yeah Star Citizen..... Eh, I take Outerworlds back, I'm not sure it qualifies as an "immersive sim". It's more like a fallout game done right. It's a sort of leveling, dialogue tree, looter, not an immersive sim.

[@Dimensiom]

I would not call the 2006 Prey an immersive sim. It really is more of a standard FPS.

[@jacquiolivia3058]

I’m so late to this party, but now I realized what my favorite style of game is. Being that Dishonored is my favorite game series ever, followed shortly by Bioshock. Amazing video 💕

[@Darkworldxl]

I blame the causals, the big attraction to these style of games is you actually have to think through what you are doing. To get as many people to buy your game as possible you HAVE to make it as accessible as possible. That lead to objective markers, concrete goals, and other “shut off brain” stuff.

[@Ironclad17]

I didn't realize Underworld Ascendant got released. It was so ambitious, I just assumed it was years away from release. I should thank you. I wrote off a lot of these games at launch, but gave them a try in the last few months as I got the sim itch.

[@curtislitchfield1378]

I'm surprised you haven't mentioned The Consortium. Also, the original Prey was not an immersive sim at all. It was a corridor shooter with some cool mechanics and a story that fit perfectly into the "Weird" genre. Lovecraftian without ripping off Lovecraft.

[@matman000000]

Would you consider Hitman an immersive sim? It seems like the genre stripped down to its raw core aspects: exploration, experimentation, interaction, environmental storytelling, multiple choices, all to kill the target in whatever way you want. Other franchises added more mechanics or streamlined them, but Hitman kept it simple and only expanded interactivity and scope.

[@libernihilus]

Hitman is a masterwork of emergent gameplay.

[@bitspokes496]

Hitman is, in my opinion, an example of a “new wave” of Immersive Sim. I would absolutely agree with its categorization as an immersive sim but I don’t believe it quite fits in with the likes of Bioshock.

[@myfaceisthefrontofshop]

@@bitspokes496 Ye, cuz Bioshock isn't an immersive sim

[@bitspokes496]

@@myfaceisthefrontofshop yeah I was super tired when I made that comment I meant system shock.

[@myfaceisthefrontofshop]

@@bitspokes496 kk np

[@ionutabroham1232]

What an amazing video on immersive sims, didnt even know there was such a genre before this and now I feel competent explaining it to someone else , great job!

[@canoli8]

I could never explain what about these games made them so appealing to me. Deus Ex HR is one of my favorite games of all time, and I'm so happy that a large group of people here on KZbin appreciate games like it.

[@StopFear]

at 16:00 "system shock sold really well?" I always read, since the year of release that while it did get excellent reviews it sold less than expected. I think it was mentioned it sold about 50 thousand copies, which was apparently not a lot.

[@lookingglassed]

The Dark Mod is actually in the DOOM 3 engine, and its not really a collection of maps. Its a mod that can organize and run fan made Dark Mod maps that are independent missions made by individuals in the community (all made in the modified DOOM 3 engine with community Thief lore assets). Were you referring to Thief 2X: Shadows of the Metal age? Because, that is a mission pack with a story based campaign using some custom assets. It was made using Dark Engine II and is a prequel to Thief II

[@caseycu]

The dark mod was certainly not made with the dark engine, it was made with a modified version of id tech 4, which was open-sourced in 2011.

[@nickmcmurray3130]

Amazing video. I’ve heard the term “immersive sim”, but never really knew what it meant. I learned a ton about it and also learned about some games that I’m very eager to give a shot. Seriously, great work dude

[@VagueLuminary]

My only Immersive Sim experience is playing the original Deus Ex for a few hours a couple years back, but this video was super interesting! KZbin recommended it to me, I've never seen your videos before, so I hope you get a lot of new viewers as this is high-quality, high-effort content that should be rewarded!

[@IanWatson]

32:40: "This game's story also served as a convenient way to soft retcon the not-so-popular 1999 Gehenna campaign book, which laid out the end of the world for vampire-kind." I'm afraid you're misremembering. The "Gehenna" book was released on January 14th, 2004, not in 1999. Bloodlines came out in November of that year. Bloodlines was intended as *part of* the Gehenna storyline, not a retcon of it. The "Gehenna: The Final Night" tie-in novel (also released January 14th, 2004) features Beckett as the protagonist, and he references the death of LaCroix as something that has already happened, as well as telling Smiling Jack that the last time he had been in town was to investigate the whole incident with the sarcophagus. "Gehenna" takes place *after* Bloodlines. The original plan was to have Bloodline timed to release closer to the release of the book, but publisher delays (fr'ex, the delay of Half-Life 2) meant they had to wait. Anyway, it was the final product released for Vampire: The Masquerade until we brought it back seven years later in 2011.

[@CharlatanWonder]

I have the worst luck with trying to remember/correctly recite VTM lore. Well, as far as things to get wrong in the video goes it could have been worse.

[@homesliceslices69]

I was never good at remember lore either..... Like Legacy of Kain can be a bit difficult to understand with all timelines for ex.

[@OldJerzyDevil]

@@CharlatanWonder You had the wrong title on one of the tracks from VtmB, The ambient music from Velvet's club Vesuvius was captioned Asp Hole. 😉 Seriously though, I have high hopes for VtmB-2 since they're taking their time with devolpment.

[@Fabelaz]

"pirating" abandonware isn't a crime. There is no entity your money would otherwise go, so your skipping of the first prey is... well, can be attributed to laziness.

[@TH3LAST5TAND]

Id say cowardliness

[@kvltizt]

Pirating is functionally the same as buying a used copy: The publisher/developer receives no money.

[@matze2436]

@@kvltizt no?

[@kvltizt]

@@matze2436 Yes, it is.

[@innoclarke7435]

@@matze2436 He's actually right, if you bothered to pay attention to his comment. If you buy a used copy of the game, does the dev/publisher get your money? No. If you pirate a game, does the dev/publisher get your money? No. Congratulations, you now see how pirating the functionally the same as buying a used copy. The distinction being whether or not you want to pay someone completely unrelated to the game itself for a copy of the game.

[@titanoboaoficial2014]

Man what a brutal and passionate piece of art this is... Thanks so much!

[@mr_spooner2878]

That's a realy good video! Thank you for your hard work for it. I love the "immersive sim" genre so much. Let's hope we get some new ones in the future.

[@iranuntius1816]

Surely the Courier in New Vegas displays the classic traits of the pawn - as in most immersive sims? Is it just the lack of linearity that makes it an RPG rather than an immersive sim?

[@PKAmedia]

Yeah, New Vegas seems to be a bit of a mix of immersive sim and RPG. I think the open world nature of it is why it's usually called RPG, rather then immersive sim. It certainly shares a lot of the same sort of game-play ideology as immersive sims, and honestly what genre it's in doesn't matter at the end the day, just that it's a bloody great game. Up that with Deus Ex as one of the best in my opinion.

[@DarthRadical]

You didn't mention the huge issue in Invisible War & Deadly Shadows - the engine limitations meant that the maps were tiny, and you could run to the nearest loading screen to get away from guards! >

[@Iriseon]

I actually didn’t mind smaller more contained levels. It’s why I prefer Hitman Blood Money over Hitman 2016. Downside is yes, guard glitching, but upside is guard glitching.

[@nosferadu]

Congrats for a good video. Just wanted to say however that I think your definition of an immersive sim is wrong. What constitutes an immersive sim is: a) the ability to progress through the game in multiple ways & being able to choose how to proceed at each step, and - more importantly - b) these choices are systems-driven, meaning the designer only gives you rules, NOT the options themselves. That's why Skyrim or Oblivion aren't immersive sims, but Morrowind is. (and incidentally, the Bioshock games aren't)

[@Влад-ъ4б6ц]

Interesing point about Morrowind, tho there are almost zero interactions with the world, for example. Anyway it's debateble, of course, but besides that, heavily agree.

[@bzoner16]

What's the cutoff that makes Morrowind an immersive sim and Skyrim and Oblivion not? All have some explicit choices and all have some implicit ones. All have living systems that you can exploit to get different results, and different approaches to varying degrees. What's the line in the sand here?

[@riceniceman548]

Prey is important to me not just because it was amazing, but because I found my go-to alarm clock song in it.

[@MrOJR666]

I'm the biggest fan I know of Deus Ex. The fact that you mentioned the explosive trick for that barracks situation in the airport made the whole world snap into focus for me.

[@Pr0manStream]

"Even 20 years later we still talk about Deus Ex" - yes, but that is mostly because the devs nowadays just mess things up royally in their attempt to ape what worked back then, failing, and thus deserved a nice shafting Oh and also, I'm not entirely certain that footage from "Dark Messiah of Might & Magic" is fitting for immersive sim by your own standards: While you totally are a pawn, you also are quite literally the chosen one (in this case the titular Dark Messiah) of that story.

[@valletas]

He never said that being a nobody was what defined the genre but it is one of the things that many of them share Like the jrpg genre Many games end with you fighting either god or someone like it yet it doesnt mean it is what the genre is about

[@eziospaghettiauditore8369]

No it's mostly because no game comes close to the amount of options or in game storytelling as deus ex 1 does

[@Pr0manStream]

​@@valletas Well, he didn't state that a "nobody" was required to define the genre - that much is true - but he more or less implicitly stated that they all have it in common like a red thread that goes through each game. DMoM&M basically doesn't fit that scheme by this standard at all, as the character is basically the chosen descendant of evil incarnate, the titular "dark messiah". It clashes quite drastically with what was previously stated and doesn't really help his argument is me point here. One thing I am more than willing to give out though is that the main character (Sareth) is remarkably bland (which fits quite well with the games however, so he may wanted to clarify in regards to a "bland" character and not to a "nobody" character) and basically him being a blank slate, which is something of a trope in immersive sims, which makes sense given that Players try to attribute their personality or something of a generic personality onto the main protagonist. It is the entire reason why they are designed to be as bland and inoffensive as possible, so most of the playerbase can easily identify with the protagonist and immerse themselves more.

[@BinaryDood]

The bestest Immersive Sims, new and old, for those who want to get into them; - System Shock - System Shock 2 - Thief 2 - Deus Ex - Deus Ex: Human Revolution - Bioshock 2 - Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines - Prey Can't go wrong with any of these! I guess that's not that many right? But there aren't that many Immersive Sims, which else would you add?

[@homesliceslices69]

I didn't like infinity.

[@noticarus3164]

Mankind Divided is good too.

[@BinaryDood]

@Han Solo ew... 2 did pretty much everything better-

[@Liberator130]

@Han Solo I guess it's because it factors in both the little sisters and the "main antagonists." It's more complicated than the endings of BioShock 1.

[@rudolph2937]

Thief is not an immersive sim, its a stealth game

[@wraaaah]

This is some undertaking and I really appreciate you doing it. I just wish that it wasn't marred by factual inaccuracies. The Prey segment for example and it's entire development history is wrong.

[@limabravo7359]

From a NoClip video, in the first minute, Arcane told the story of how Bethesda Publishing suggested to use the name Prey for their new game to keep the intellectual property active. Prey 2017 has very little relations to the previous games in the series.

[@taguinerd]

Such an amazing video and resource for one of the most underrepresented genres in gaming. I come back to this video time and time again.

[@thenoble1]

One of the best vg docos I've seen in a long time. This genre is cruelly underrated and I'm glad you spent so much time dissecting its lineage and major milestones.

[@bw2903]

There's only one true Deus Ex

[@sasaider3711]

Yeah, deus ex GO

[@retrobit5973]

@@sasaider3711 Why not?

[@nice3333333333]

@@sasaider3711 GO to the polls

[@Ultrox007]

about a minute in I was thinking "if this is two hours of reading, we're going to have a problem because I want to listen while I game."

[@iceq3974]

what do you play while listen to these kind of things

[@Grim_Pinata]

@@iceq3974 Not the original commenter but I do the same thing. Usually I play repetitive grindy games where you can evenly divide your attention between the game and a podcast or something. Warframe and Borderlands come to mind.

[@fractalsauce]

@@iceq3974 Elite Dangerous

[@ПётрПавловский-щ1х]

why do you listen and play? you ruin watching the video dickhead

[@iceq3974]

@@Grim_Pinata can you give me an example? I used to play stardew valley but i got bored of it

[@Snoogen11]

It's a real shame the majority of the "upcoming" games listed at the end have been delayed or mired in controversy.

[@Patryk128pl]

Fun fact about BioShock Infinite: apparently the popularity of Elizabeth was very influencial in 3D NSFW animations scene leading to some major developments there and growth of this market.

[@AstralPhnx]

"An Alternate Universe where Kenedy Ducked" Ok, that's how I'm plot summing Prey 2017 now, that line is too good

[@DagothDaddy]

I think an open world immersive sim could be possible in the future. Games like Kingdomcome deliverance are close to an immersive sim,and Cyberpunk 2077 looks to be leaning less towards the "Your dialogue choices matter." And more towards the Deus ex style of complete the mission how ever you choose.

[@carso1500]

@Smunstu Stinkymonster imo most modern games are a mish mash of genres anyway with fucking GTA 5 having a skill tree and a progresión system, some call of duty games having star fox like space shooting missions, etc, as time passes and the limits go from "we can't do this, is literaly imposible with the hardware" to "we have near unlimited potential to do whatever the fuck we want with the only limit being time and money" (which granted is still a pretty big limit) the whole genre thing is starting to get really diluted, specially something as specific as "immersive sim"

[@wes8723]

Yep, Cyberpunk 2077 is pretty much a open-world Deus Ex game.. you can finish pretty much any of the houndreds of missions in the game with either using violence (guns or melee weapons), stealth, hacking and sometimes by dialog/social route or mixing them together

[@diobrando7963]

@@wes8723 the bugs kinda ruined it but overall decent

[@grogu4853]

Arkane is one of my favorite gaming developers, Dishonored and Prey are absolute bangers... I can’t wait for DeathLoop.

[@diobrando7963]

Kinda sad that death loop wasn’t on the same quality as either of em

[@freindmaker4473]

@@diobrando7963 its still great, u cant expect constant masterpieces lol

[@sumstuff6956]

Prey good dihonoured both really good deathloop total pants

[@Heeroneko]

No mention of the success of Kingdom Come: Deliverance? I get that you can't include everything, but it's arguably the most successful and influential immersive sim in the past few years.

[@blackwolfrules56]

Glad to see someone else enjoyed it.

[@doubtful_seer]

Gale Anderson I haven’t been able to afford it yet, but I wish and hope they add a customizable player character. I’ve heard rumors they might in the future and I also understand it’s a bit more complicated given the game was made using mocap. I prefer creating my own characters or sometimes basing my character on myself (I’m bedbound so it’s nice to imagine myself being able to get outside, not even considering the main missions of the games). Being able to create my own story around the character I’m playing just makes me feel more immersed and I get more enjoyment than games with premade main characters (depending on the game story ofc).

[@CallyMayz]

Kingdom Come: Deliverance is open world which he doesn't count as an immersive sim.

[@Cha0sLord93]

Wasnt that game full of horrible bugs, released half finished and overhyped worse than No Man's Sky?

[@CallyMayz]

@@Cha0sLord93 pretty much this

[@MikeSmith-eh4st]

Plz keep making more long form essays like this! Truly a great capstone to a long career on KZbin

[@brunobb1]

Subscribed for the shot allegory section. That was beautiful.

[@dranyth]

This is a really interesting video on a style of game I quite enjoy, although there are a few issues in it, a couple of minor ones and a major one. Minor things, Arx Libertatis isn't a 'fan patch', it's a straight up source port based on the source code released by Arkane back in 2011. The Dark Mod has absolutely nothing to do with the Dark Engine, The Dark Mod was originally a total conversion for Doom 3, which ended up completely separating itself from Doom 3 when the id Tech 4 source code was released and it became a standalone mod. The major thing: the history/relation of Prey (2017) to the original Prey (2006) is completely wrong, because there is absolutely no relation between the two. Prey (2017) was an untitled project being worked on by Arkane, Bethesda remembered they owned the Prey trademark and just gave them that name to use for no real reason. Prey (2006) and Prey 2 have an interesting history all their own with Bethesda/Zenimax screwing over Humanhead Studios, but Prey (2006) wasn't an immersive sim in the first place, so not really relevant to this video.

[@THExRISER]

*Looks at thumbnail* Is that EYE:Divine Cybermancy I see? Welp,looks like I'm watching this entire video!

[@Harril8265]

@6:58 A plot detail has nothing to do with whether or not a game is considered an immersive sim. The term is defined purely by gameplay.

[@julio_scissors]

Really really great video. Nice work!

[@enlightenedgroyper2956]

Amazing video! Didn't even notice the length until the intermission haha.

[@Superschokokeks]

Your definition of "Immersive Sim" is.. very arbitrary.. I mean I've a hard time defining it myself, but your points.. rather don't know how to say it without saying someting wrong. For instance one point is that your protagonist starts out as nobody and rise on top.. that's pretty the story of a lot of games. Even saying open world isn't quite part of "immersive sim", although the name implies a "simulator" with hard focus on "immersive", which means avoiding everything that breaks you out of the game .. so open world should be a part? Then I think Gothic 1 & 2 is missing, because it fits perfectly in your definition (and I think it is one anyway ;P). and E.Y.E breaks you out of the immersion. A lot. shrug I don't know. Don't take it as critizism. I'm rather left confused. So sharing your thoughts on it is much appreciated

[@CharlatanWonder]

Oh yeah it's totally arbitrary. The main focus was set a criteria that all the Big names in immersive sims would fit under while still allowing some that aren't carbon copies of Dues Ex to be allowed in. Even with this set of criteria tbis video is nearly 2 hours long. I had to draw the line somewhere or else tbis video would be 6 hours long and likely considered overbroad.

[@ileutur6863]

@@CharlatanWonder tbis

[@queenoflimbs5]

Kingdom Come Deliverance defintely falls under the Immersive Sim category!

[@nathannjh]

Mari T immersive sims are not full blown simulators, KCD is a hyper realistic medieval simulator, not a immersive sim

[@milkjug4237]

@@nathannjh then change the name, wtf

[@the_dook2145]

I disagree about Bioshock being an immersive sim, and so does Warren Spector. It gutted so much of what made system shock 2 so good, and definitely dumbed down its gameplay in order to appeal to console gamers.

[@BinaryDood]

I agree but there are so few Immersive Sims that anything that could be added should be fine for the video.

[@asscheeks3212]

Tbh this, it’s one of the reasons I enjoy Infinite WAY more then the other Bioshocks because... it doesn’t try to be SystemShock. It’s feels more like Halo meeting Street fighter, shooting combine with FIGHT combos, I actually like that, every weapon feels important, where in earlier games I keep asking “wait, why do I need this weak add on?” Infinite got too much hate imo, but this is coming from a guy that prefer Prey 2006 over Prey 2017, it’s a simple fun game telling some quirky story not taking too much influences from SystemShock, because the MORE they did that, the more I go “meh, how pretentious, I could just replay SystemShock”

[@55fivefive]

Nah Infinite was straight trash that stripped away the only good elements of Bioshock and like your opinion it belongs in the garbage

[@asscheeks3212]

5555 also this, elitist circle jerking.

[@bigtastyben5119]

@@asscheeks3212 He's not wrong tough, Was disappointing that the first few concepts was scrapped for a sloppy pseudo-intellectual about racism and multiple timeline. Not to mention that the rewrite 6 months before release. BI has more in common with Call of Duty gameplay wise than any other immersive sim.

[@ALiberalVeteran]

The ability to turn faucets on is the defining ability for any immersive sim.

[@solidith]

Absolutely amazing buddy. I appreciate the attention to detail, amount of depth, and work you put into this. Videos like these are my favorite on the internet.

[@dogtagduke744]

Prey 2017 is simply amazing.

[@3Jane_TA]

I get the feeling this video is gonna get a million views, see you guys then!

[@CharlatanWonder]

I hope so!

[@Blinkster93]

Its sad, when none of my friend's ever played a immersive Sim. They be missing out on some great games!

[@martinstrnad641]

thanks for the video, its always lovely to see that my favorite video game niche is still alive and kicking.

[@RetroDeathReviews666]

I rarely ever watch videos this long, but this piqued my interest and I managed to sit down and watch the entire thing. I gotta say, bravo on this, man. There's some small inaccuracies but overall you did an AMAZING job here and the amount of work and research you had to do for this must've been rediculous. Hope to see similar videos in the future 🤘

[@RustafRM]

It is kind of sad to watch the end part of this video in 2022.

[@HeckaLives]

So Warren really is the........ SPECTER hanging over the immersive sim.

[@slibstalsongr2056]

Great video. Long-form videos are hard to do without it becoming boring or too verbose, but you absolutely nailed it.

[@CharlatanWonder]

Thanks! It probably helps my case that rather than going over one game/piece of media for 90+ minutes I'm doing 30 games for 3-5 minutes each. It's hard to keep things interesting when you're only covering one thing.

[@lupercalrising2208]

Wooo!!! This was great!! Currently at work - I work in an office, desk job - and we're at work til 12 today then off the rest of the week. The time til we're off is draaaagging, no one's in work mode lol. So just letting you know your vid got me through a good chunk of it. You earned my sub sir! I'll be sure to share this vid.

[@Arkanda003]

I didn't expect to watch this video to completion, but here I am. Amazing work.

[@RyoCanCan]

Man, I'd love a new Deus Ex. Human Revolution and Mankind Divided were both insanely good and I love them to death.

[@Indigo_Gaming]

> In-depth, thoughtful video game content talking about one of my favorite genres, popping up in my feed due to the KZbin algorithm. Wait, that's illegal!

[@CharlatanWonder]

We did it boys, the algorithm works for us now!

[@DanielTrue]

@@CharlatanWonder You should check out RoSoDude RSD's critique. I had to stop watching less than ten minutes in because you clearly didn't do your homework.

[@AndroidFerret]

Bioshock isn't an immersive Sim imo... It's more a story driven action fps with rpg elements...😜

[@AndroidFerret]

@weed soup is this a question? 😂

[@AndroidFerret]

@weed soupimo system shock and deus ex are immersive Sims.. Also prey 2017... Bioshock isn't... It's to linear and no real rpg elements...

[@AndroidFerret]

@Ty Bey jep... Absolutely.

[@eminor9196]

Dude 😜😜 have you only played Bioshock infinite ? 😜😜😜 thats like the only story driven shooter from the series 😜😜 because it plays like Call of Duty with magic. Bioshock 1 and 2 had a Sandbox feel to it there was a plenty of ways to fight enemies unlike Infinite where you just only shoot. 😜😜😜😜😜😜😜😜😜😜😜😜😜😜😜😜😜

[@AndroidFerret]

@@eminor9196 funny cause I never played infinite... Only 1...

[@fabrice9848]

Great work ! 32 years of gaming and I really appreciate what you do.

[@fellipe345]

Loved the video! i cant believe you kept working on this video for so long i admire you dude

[@synka5922]

Thief series and dishonored, my most favorite games in this genre. love them

[@sephikong8323]

Dishonored is pretty much what happens when you take Thief, mix it with Bioshock and spray paint a plague infested city on top of it I really dig it so much

[@Vanadium]

the real thief series or only the old ones? loved them and I tried the new one when it was on sale but I really could only play for maybe 1-2h and then de-installed it.

[@synka5922]

@@Vanadium I own all of them, and got to agree the newset isnt quite as good. Still played it tho

[@analogGigabyte]

System Shock 2 is mostly a horror game that had me on the ropes for the majority of it's length. The tight systems around you and the ability to traverse the complex past map gave a feeling of realism and scale. RPG meant (e.g.) if you had more strength, you had more inventory slots, etc. Your specific character build made for a fundamentally different play. I can go on and on. What a leap for it's time! My point is, future games feel like backtracking. Bioshock feels like a pretty cousin but empty of a lot of the RPG core. Also, repetition and dull mechanics hurt the immersion for me. Both Bioshocks were a simplified, middle ground moneymaker. SS2 was a much more focused experience with the intensity of nightmares, at times.

[@teazqt812]

DX: MD was hands down a masterpiece! The One Block RPG come to life. Sadly as you said the marketing almost attempted to ruin the entire thing.

[@qdllc]

I’m not hopeful for a 3rd game. Mass Effect 3 shows how a studio can screw up a franchise. As a prequel, Deus Ex can’t surpass or rewrite the cannon. So, you need to make an awesome story and game that doesn’t violate the future we already know. The ending likely will be totally predictable, which is a special challenge for developing a great game.

[@TafferKing451]

Wonderful and thorough video. Some neat additions, too (hi, EYE!). If anyone is hungry for upcoming immersive sims, I'm working with NewBlood (the developers of DUSK) to create a spiritual successor to the original Thief games (mostly Dark Project and Metal Age). The game is called Gloomwood, and you can find out more on our twitters (@Jollyrogers99 or @NewBlood), and we'll be showcasing a trailer and playable demo in a few weeks. Thank you again Charlatan for the video. This genre is my favorite and I really wish it had more groundswell.

[@d.h.k.c8113]

... I loved this video. Thank you for putting so much work into it I can tell this really was a true labor of love built for a genre you hold dear. I too love the immersive sim, even in their sometimes unfinished states; Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines will forever be the best 2/3rds of a game I've ever played (literally: plus patch or no, it won't let me past the Society of Leopold lol). I would also go a bit left of expectation, as far as the usual tropes of the genre, and suggest that Elite: Dangerous might fit this group. While it trades a story-driven element for a sandbox, it offers a Universe-sized Universe to explore, hunt bounties, join factions, mine precious ores, and customize your ever-upgrading ship in such depth and detail that entire YT Channels are dedicated to "builds" alone. It's truly an immersive experience, even if it trades the RPG elements for more, shall we say, "Armored Core"-esque customization options. Personal preference, of course, and in no way a critique of the video, more a recommendation for your own time since you enjoy a good time-sink. And we could all use a good time-sink right now. Cheers!