The Horus Heresy: Age of Darkness - Full Rules Review

[@auspextactics]

The book is available here through Element Games for 15% off if you happen to live in the UK: elementgames.co.uk/games-workshop/warhammer-40k/space-marines/horus-heresy-age-of-darkness-rulebook-english-?d=10426

[@groglorb8980]

As someone who started in 3rd ed, these rules feel like coming home!

[@HeartlessNinny1]

I feel the same way! I played 3rd myself back in the day, then fell away from the hobby. Now I'm back. I quite like 9th, but this is extremely cool as well.

[@rcgunner7086]

I started in the Rogue Trader days and feel the same way. It's the 40K I remember.

[@FunnyTaco143]

I was just trying to fine a source of all the rules to review until my order comes in and I check and see you just posted. Awesome as always!

[@Alpharius2479]

same, and as always auspex delivers

[@humongousego3026]

Please keep Heresy content coming!

[@-Benedict]

To be frank, I feel that being more random and less competitive is a bloody good thing rather than a price worth paying.

[@masakari3990]

Just because the game is less competitive doesn't mean people are less competitive.

[@ObjectiveAnalysis]

There’s more randomisation in 40k imo

[@LysimedVenteel]

@@masakari3990 You’d think, wouldn’t you. But the Horus Heresy community is primarily made up of people disenfranchised with 40K’s meta-obsession, so they go for a more narrative game instead

[@masakari3990]

@@LysimedVenteel To my point, is horus heresy really a less competitive system? Yes, it has a less competitive community but is that because the game system is less competitive or is it caused by other factors, like its setting? Not sure how we define how competitive a system is but if we relate it how deep the rules are, which i think we are, 30k has GWs other games beat. In my opinion, i think it proves my point that making the a game competitive doesn't have necessarily have an effect on the community that surrounds it.

[@LysimedVenteel]

⁠@@masakari3990 I think we probably consider it less competitive partially because of the player base and partially because of the way the game’s lore supports a narrative approach. Many people have compared HH to historical wargaming - and through not truly in that sphere, I quite agree. The heraldry tables for each legion in Liber Astartes and Liber Hereticus, for instance, show a dedication to lore and accuracy that ends up in a more immersive experience than 40K, where a lot of individual factions and dynamics feel somewhat weird and wacky - not in a bad way, but Heresy sometimes feels like a grounded version of 40k’s extremities. Take daemons, for example - and this stretches to the Horus Heresy series, not just the game. In mainstream 40k, they are almost all very distinctively oriented to each god, and that can inspire GW to come out with very odd ideas occasionally. In Heresy, the focus is on Chaos Undivided - though others like Khorne’s Ka’Bandha do get a look in. The existence of Samus is a perfect example of this. Authors like Dan Abnett use lots of real-world myths and folklore elements, often from ancient civilisations, to characterise daemons - inserting references here and there. A classic case of this is Drach’nyen being the embodiment of the first murder - in the Bible, that’s Cain and Abel. In 30k, there’s an adapted variant of story, which serves well to ground Heresy in ideas we might already be familiar with. Instead of the (perhaps) slightly random 40K attitude of “do anything, make your own chapter, whatever floats your boat” - in Heresy, it’s more like there are lore guidelines to stick to. And I think those grounded elements greatly inform the spirit of the player base, many of which play Heresy because of the books instead of just regular old 40K. I once heard somebody say that (paraphrased): “If you ask most players how they best prefer to play 40k, they’d say it would be narratively. But 40k is treated often by GW as a competitive game, and the rules are changed to reflect this.” The thing is, GW does orient 40k towards the tournament scene, because presumably that’s what their sales executives have said is a better approach. Maybe they have a way of making money through their own self-run tournaments, I don’t actually know how that side of things works. They will strip out plenty of narrative elements from the game (like sub-factions… RIP fluffy space marines) in order to tailor it to as close to perfect balance as possible. And if most people play casual games, which I think is probably true, the oppressive meta… may very well not be something they experience. I’ve known people who will play against what is considered a “strong” army - for the sake of argument, Necrons - and complain when they lose to a perfectly fluffy army list, because a specific Necron list using one detachment and thirty C’tan is doing excellently in tournaments. I believe that so much of 40k’s imbalance is simply the placebo effect. Many people who prefer narrative games, such as myself, have become quite disillusioned with 40k, and begun playing Heresy, which manages to totally sideline the meta. For example - are Custodes very strong in Heresy? Yes, absolutely - but playing against Custodes is seen as more of a challenge, and many people don’t even know they’re very strong because it’s not talked about. Dreadnoughts, again, are borderline OP in Heresy. But instead of trying to hyper-optimise them, people have agreements with friends - 1 per 1000 pts, only give them the worse ranged weapons, or make sure you both have plenty. I rarely see people talking about points in Heresy, too - it’s a nice change to hear people talking about what a unit can do on the table without comparing the numbers to another unit and rejecting the less-optimal one. Sometimes I do feel that by perpetuating the fixation with the meta, GW does a very good job of conning people into buying new units - and not just the meta-chasers. If I have a 2000 pt army of Ultramarines (I don’t, for the record) and my scouts suddenly have a totally different and worse datasheet ability in a new codex, many people will talk about how underpowered scouts now are, and how they need a points drop. I might be compelled to buy a new unit to fill the gap - Inceptors are now strong, how about some of those? The fact is, the idea that, say, a rise of ten points makes a unit unusable is kind of ridiculous unless you’re at a hyper-optimised tournament-winning level. Consider how much difference that’ll make - okay, I drop an enhancement. Or in the old days, I lose a special weapon on a squad. That’s not world-ending for me. Again, if a unit becomes much stronger, I might be compelled to buy one or two. I am shamelessly guilty of loading up on Sword Brethren - not to bully my friends, but because I liked them already, and as they’re stronger, I can enjoy using the rules more. This constant state of flux means GW can make more and more sales. On the other hand, let’s look at 30k. When I first started playing in 2022, I had the luxury for the first time of planning an army list that was fulfillable, point for point, because we don’t have to deal with frequent balance changes in Heresy. In 40k, you kind of have to have a constantly growing collection, otherwise you’ll fall prey to points deficit, and not having enough models if GW chooses to “bless” your army with points drops - look at poor AdMech. In Heresy, it’s very refreshing to know that if I plan out a new army or allied detachment, I don’t then have to worry about it being invalidated in that form just a few weeks later. So there are certainly some advantages to playing a less competitive game, that I think Heresy players often appreciate. Apologies that this has turned into a rant/essay against 40k - I do love 40k, I love it a lot, and I keep playing it, but I can’t deny that Horus Heresy provides a more enjoyable experience for me, and I think a lot of that is linked to the balance between competitive and narrative.

[@notknightbean]

Love to see an overview of all of the legions next.

[@HeartlessNinny1]

Me too. It would be a lot of work to be sure, but Aupex is a top tier channel, and I can't think of anyone who would do it better from a rules perspective.

[@PhantomJavelin]

Death or Glory got a good laugh out of me. Just the idea of one guy YOLOing a single shot into an oncoming vehicle and either saving everyone or getting unceremoniously run over is so damn funny.

[@JohnnyCoyote]

To me it sounds more appealing than 9ed 40k. In 40k you basically have to know all other codices front-to-back to understand how each army functions, every weapon and unit has unique special rules, and now you also have secondaries changing twice a year. I literally cannot buy and paint models as quickly as the rules are changing.

[@MechaEmperor7000]

3rd edition was very good since most armies only had a handful of super snowflake rules and mostly operated off of stats. Having only like 9 selections (that includes characters) per army also helps (rather than the bazillion we have now that more or less still only do like 3 things). The only problem with 3rd was that it lacked objectives outside of narrative campaigns, so pickup games almost always were "how fast can you kill the other guy". Play it with 9th edition objectives makes for a more interesting game.

[@scottlarmore5038]

That’s only true if you care about being competitive. Any army CAN beat any army in 40k, it’s possible. For me, in 40k, it’s more about playing what I think looks cool, and what I like the lore for. Admittedly, I’m not a tournament player, so I don’t mind loosing, but I’ve won more than lost.

[@ObjectiveAnalysis]

@@MechaEmperor7000 I stopped played around 3rd and came back around 8th (not a fan so I play/collect HH now) - would you say 3rd is the best of the older editions? Wasn’t 4th a more polished/updated version of 3rd?

[@theLINK7778]

As an old 4th-5th ed player just coming back to 40k, I'm really impressed with the Heresy rules. Theres so many of the old rules brought back that I've been nostalgic for while learning 9th ed. Too bad I cant just use my Tau and play Heresy rules lol.

[@Noveltyuk]

Why not? I'd be tempted to try. AP is basically the same just doesn't mod. S and T the same. Just sub WS and BS for the dice roll equivalent. Would take some work but these rules are from some of the more fun days of 40k

[@rcgunner7086]

@@scottsharp3789 That honestly what I'm thinking.

[@chris_hobbies]

@@rcgunner7086 me too I have the codex form 7th edition.

[@micaigneous_01]

Yeah, these rules feel like 7.5 and I'm okay with that. I started in the hobby during these type of rules and feels good to see again.

[@King31j]

How much I miss the old way of playing. Wish 40K could go back to this.

[@derpherp7432]

@@King31j That's probably partly why Horus Heresy and The Old World exist, it lets GW keep active an older, traditional ruleset while still being able to explore and experiment in Age of Sigmar and 40k since they do need to experiment to improve. So far it's semi-working, AoS experimentation is going really well and Horus Heresy looks solid. 40k's experimentation is going less well, but it seems like they are starting to bring over some of the stuff that works well in AoS to 40k so it probably has a bright future.

[@Nilmur2]

Yeah from my reading of the book it get like a mix of 5th, 7th and 8th

[@highmarshalbalian680]

After reading the rules they feel way more 3rd-5th to me and that makes me happy because 7th was bad

[@King31j]

@@highmarshalbalian680 7th wasn’t bad but had its issues. Had to fix everything that was bad in 6th edition within a year.

[@jaegerbomb269]

My thermic reactor is pulsating with excitement! Can't wait to get one. Beaks for life!

[@arrowtt3364]

I get that reference

[@Kmwildride]

Wasn't expecting an AT video on this, but glad you have! Best channel for rules in YT

[@robbrown8082]

Thanks for the detailed review! This is starting to appear like a proper wargame with the reactions added in. It seems weird to have tactical games where you can just run up to your opponent and not get your snarglies shot off. There have been many good tactical wargames over the years, but in 1976 John Hill nailed it with Squad Leader, and defensive fire reactions were a big part of it (it would be nuanced even more in 1985 with Advanced Squad Leader).

[@ChrisPrice12]

War of Lies was my favorite mission in 1.0. It used to be that a random objective would also disappear as well.

[@G-enome]

Such a superior logical rule set than the current over complicated 40K. Why the hell was it changed so much?

[@lpamlong4563]

the 7th edition/hh2.0 set of rules isn't as easy to ballance iirc

[@Julian_The_Apostate]

@@lpamlong4563 Maybe, 7th ed 40k was a nightmare and the last edition i played extensively. Though there's some consensus that the downfall of 7th was was due to broken formations and supplement bloat. In the 30k ecosystem all of that has been cleaned up and there's less asymmetry, so in that alone there's a level of inherent balance not present in 40k with all its wildly different armies. In 30k Legions Astartes are the focus and most people play Legions which all draw on the same core units. That's not to say it's perfect, some Legions have better special rules/synergy with existing units, distinct factions like Talons and Mechanicum famously upset the balance quite badly. But for a game that's narrative centric, it's quite well done.

[@G-enome]

@@Julian_The_Apostate I think you’re right with the bloat and formations. 6th 40K from what I remember was a dream, sturdy well tested rules built from improvements made on past editions. HH 2.0(7.5ed) looks like they have refined things and remembering the rule sets that have now been removed from modern 40K just reminds me of how streamline and well they worked from 6th. Current 40K seems to swing wildly with how heavy statagems play a into the modern games.

[@Julian_The_Apostate]

@@G-enome I'll have to play it to make a real decision, the game definitely looks like a good one at its core. Reactions seem like they could be a gateway for massive bloat. In 8th ed. 40k, which I admit I only played a handful of games of, stratagems seemed fine. In 9th ed., which I haven't played at all so take it with a grain of salt, besides the blatant codex creep the biggest criticism is how bloated stratagems have become. So to return to the original point, I can see some of those new things being fun and something exciting at first and then down the line, like say in the probably inevitable heresy 3 or even after a couple of the Legion codexs, absolutely ruining the experience. I'm hopeful for 30k, I want some people to play that game with because I'm just more interested in the setting and I prefer the "classic" rules model (ie 3rd-7th ed. Engine) so i really want this to be good and succeed, because of that I'm possibly just being too paranoid.

[@racg174]

just hearing you describe sweeping advance made me remember the joy and terror of that mechanic

[@changer_of_ways_999]

As a Thousand Sons player, I do like Horus Heresy more than 40k. The Magnus model looks better and is actually cheaper, Amon is available, there's a psyker Dreadnought and there's actually more unique units than in 40k and better fast attack units and no goddamn Tzaangors. Now that it's getting cheaper and more mainstream, I'll actually end up playing this more than 40k. There's also less rule bloat and meta chasing which is nice.

[@MidKnight2142]

I know I did play a version of 40k before 8th edition, but I can't tell you which lol. I mainly got into table top 40k when 8th edition came out. I did miss things such as the blast zones and stuff, but overall I liked 8th more. I did pre-order the Horus Heresy box set and I'm willing to learn it, but these rules so far seem very convoluted. Also admittedly, so did 8th when I first learned it. It will definitely be a learning curve for me, and I think I'll learn better by watching Battle Reports and visual/video breakdowns on the rules such as tutorial videos.

[@AnEnormousNerd]

As someone who started in 8th, the only things here I really like are the blast templates and weapon facings on vehicles. Those just seem like good fun. Everything else just seems weird and complicated, but hopefully it'll start making more sense after I see Play On Tabletop play with these rules a bit.

[@mumblez7712]

10th ed. with stratagems cut right back to basics + the reaction system would be nice

[@andrewbakescakes9684]

I hope they rework strategems instead of having them be "make stuff gooder" that they are now. I like some of the ones that are in Kill Team. They have cost-benefit. Things like giving up a round of shooting to lay fire down field in an area - hitting all units that enter that area, perhaps at a lower success rate. Giving up something to get something. Not just "make your guy wound at +1 better" or "make your guys save at +1 better" for 1 CP, which is limp and doesn't show creativity.

[@icholi88]

40k could take a lesson in USR and stop relying on data sheets to express the general ideas of what a unit can do, ultimately it should be about clarity and 9th seems to take a sick pleasure in obscuring information from your opponent. Can't play a game without unintentionally blindsiding people. You shouldn't need to own your opponents codex to know enough about their army to confidently play.

[@AnEnormousNerd]

I agree with this to a degree, but to me the biggest barrier to learning 40K was the vast wall of keywords. I'd look at a space marine and be faced with a pile of 'Fearless, Legiones Astartes, Vigilant, It Will Not Die, Immortal Warrior, etc. etc.' I tried playing 7e but I could never figure out what everything did and spent more time flipping through a glossary of keywords than actually playing. While in 9e every datasheet says exactly what it does, no external reference necessary.

[@icholi88]

@@AnEnormousNerd Well good for you for owning your codex, do you expect your opponent to know it as well as you do? Or would it be better to take the 3 mins just to learn the special rules so you aren't blindsided every game?

[@GrimdarkCrusader20th]

Less competitive is good, 40k has always been up until recently more about what works thematically rather than the "mathhammer" side of things which is just building lists that are optimal and abuse rules to their greatest effect, see early 8th ed. Knight Castellan and various others. Also competitive play and rules have no place in heresy as it's meant to be psuedo historical within the context of the universe which means more focus on the hobby less about the crunch and rule manipulation. A game doesn't need to be competitively viable to be good.

[@ChrisJohnson-vi3ed]

I would love to have "Surge" and "Running" in regular 40k.

[@guardlet4196]

40k does have "running" its called advancing

[@ChrisJohnson-vi3ed]

@@guardlet4196 Ah, I read that totally wrong. You're right.

[@robertstrong6798]

Absolutely outstanding review 👏 I just bought a Praetor and 20 marines to get started off eBay. Watching this has let me plan ahead without forking out £180 for the box. As stated this box is the best value I’ve ever seen from GW. However my emps children need Rhino and will be elite infantry as is fitting with there lore. I just don’t need 10 terms and a Spartan ! And additional praetor etc. though of course Il buy a rule book 📖 lol 😂

[@catonpeters780]

Frankly, these seem like the best rules written for any warhammer system, ever

[@Yuri77711]

Aren't those just the old rules, 6th ed and lower?

[@Henevas]

@@Yuri77711 Bunch of small tweaks, including how Dreadnoughts work. Lots of it is fine points of some of the USR's. Plus reactions are a quirky addition that keeps both turns exciting without bloating it with stratagems.

[@vodarara7184]

@@Henevas only thing that might make it better is alternating actions but then you wouldn't exactly need reactions but there could be a place for them

[@flak1939]

Agreed. It's still real 40k and seems more dynamic (reactions) without the paperwork overhead of 9th.

[@Dennis3113]

nice one helped me out a lot. And yes more Horus Heresy Content would be apriciated

[@Mephiston]

I can't wait for you to do a video on the new mechanicus army. I'm stoked about the prospect of a plastic knight atrapos and knight acastus.

[@DRTisKING]

I'd love to see a Legion rules overview

[@HistoryoftheAges]

Cant wait to start playing!! 😁😁

[@ChrisPrice12]

Jumping around a bit with the chapters. I recall you postulating about the Leviathan's Phosphex weapons during that review, Phosphex is probably the biggest source of Lingering Death. You are correct about Relentless on Bikes, it is also present on Terminators.

[@codyh.2847]

As someone who started in 8th. It's bit of a brain fryer to learn a lot of this, but I'm loving it. It's seems so much better then 8th and 9th

[@brendanrobertson5966]

The slow descent back to Second Edition Dark Millenium continues...

[@newtpondskipper]

I loved 2nd edition other than how long it took to play.

[@ChrisPrice12]

Very well done. Looking forward to your reviews of the Liber books.

[@HeartlessNinny1]

What an outstanding video. Thank you, Auspex.

[@tomjordan7606]

i am loving these rules a return of old morale and the old vehicle rules is fantastic

[@pentacosttb2565]

These rules seem vastly better than 8th/9th 40K. Really hope this forms the basis for 10th. Not sure about a few rites of war, reactions and what not (the IF Legion's +1 to hit with half the games weapons is horribly unbalanced), but overall a died hood system by the looks of things, and thank goodness it's not had the stratagem bollocks added in.

[@Fortunes.Fool.]

If I get to England I’m buying this man a case of beer.

[@AuramiteEX]

This game is very fun, and allows for excellent narrative moments. It's not better than the core rules of current 40k, but it's different.

[@chris_hobbies]

if you aren't competitive player is the best way to play.

[@ChrisPrice12]

Heresy vet back again, for the primary source of/nostalgia. Shock Pulse is the domain of Neutron Laser weapons, such as the Sicaran Venator or Cerberus. It was a great way to shut down super heavies and Knights for a turn.

[@mikeg8564]

yep I'm switching, hope 40k adopts this

[@aymericsimon6261]

If i'm not mistaken, duelist's edge is additional I for challenge, the general rule for it is not in the video and is called reach (comon on spears and halberds)

[@fareastwargaming]

Great review and breakdown. Will be using this as a quick reference! Thanks 😁

[@travisvance619]

20 man blob of blood angels tactical marines with chain bayonets and Chaplin/apothecary is quite resilient/murdery

[@spoonsrattling]

i know im getting the book in a bit, but still im excited for another log auspex video

[@Sandban1]

This’ll be a great watch while i assemble my boxset when it comes out

[@hossdelgato6098]

Master presentation once again… master class

[@pandemon7095]

Ah sweet 7th edition

[@Rathios1337]

Quick correction while I am watching, some weapons such as demolisher cannons(S12) are above S10

[@emperorkraglint9792]

Honestly after playing bolt action and seeing how they do blast templates I'm really displeased HH is bringing back scatter die. I'm pretty sure I lost more friends due to that mechanic alone with how bad it was to move the blast template in an impartial manor. Still this is interesting and gives me hope for the future of 40k, sadly I just don't care for the Horus Heresey outside the books so I'm unlikely to collect into this

[@Balevolt]

Deadly cargo is from phosphex bombs originally, don't know if they still have it. Or who can take the Lightning Strike.

[@fluffcrunchmini4572]

6' by 4' tables are hilarious! - All of the move to small boards for AoS then 40K and now this.. - I'm assuming (based on the mechanics) that Old World will also be 6x4 - which makes me wonder why they reduced some and not all of their systems?

[@derekfigge1971]

They literally only reduced the board size to match a play mat they had already been selling which up to then had been the wrong size. There's not a heck of a lot keeping them from just going back to 6x4 for everything eventually.

[@normtrooper4392]

These rules feel a lot more familiar to me than the current edition of 40k.

[@stephgracia8902]

I sure do hope that CORE Reactions will get integrated in V.10 - 40K... I REALLY do hope so.

[@Alpharius2479]

Please tell me you will do the "liber" books next

[@loltwest9423]

I for one abhor the sheer quantity of special rules that I have to memorize and account for. It's almost like I swapped out strategems for special rules. That and the lack of information on the data sheets is rather annoying. I have to scroll over to some other page in the book just to know what the weapon they're using does. That and I also have to use a separate book to find some of the special rules in there for that gun I want to fire, and even then it might just be in the book I was already using. Well, I guess I don't have to account for secondaries? That's a step up. Have to think about Rites of War, Warlord traits, and bullshit like that. But at the end of the day, it just feels like a different flavor of 40k, except without strategems, which isn't a bad thing, I love 40k. I just don't get why people think this is that much better than 40k.

[@redcorsair14]

Im curious in indirect fire will ignore cover if you hit a unit behind a barricade for example since it isnt shooting through the terrain and they are no longer behind it. I know older editions did this

[@angrybadgerminis3077]

So much like 3rd edition...this is great, thank you for making this video. I have the books, just no time to read them with school at the moment.

[@tattered08]

Absolutely love your reviews. I usually wait for your video before I decide whether or not I move forward with purchasing all the books/codex

[@Uzzgub]

A Interaction for the Interaction God, a Comment for the Comment Throne, for the Almighty Algorithm

[@olmanmike3340]

Liked and Shared. Thank you for this one!

[@garlicbumsnatch8454]

Fantastic video

[@goreshadetube]

I wonder if Night Lords can use night fight rules in War of Lies scenario.

[@uafthetall9150]

I dont know how the dice work. Like i dont know how to roll and what i roll for. And i cant find a video to explain how the statistics of strength, ws, and how all that works

[@scoticvsgossage9378]

This would be generating hype in me if everything wasn't out of stock online. Seriously, go look at their web stores. Every type of legion specific pauldron, head/helmet, and weapon set are 'out of stock', whether its Forge World or just regular GW. As are the MK III and MKIV power armour sets. The new get started box is great... if you play Raven Guard, and Raven Guard only. Anything else and it's basically slapping a different coat of paint on the same miniature and calling it a day, 30K historical context be damned. Most of the traitor legions used MK III and IV throughout the Heresy, with few exceptions. The Loyalists used MK VI predominantly because they held sway over the forges of Mars until the Siege of Terra, and even then armour was limited to what you could scrape together. Just feels irritating that I can't get a hold of the armour my factions need because GW didn't properly stock their warehouses... again. We're three years into Nurgle's Rot, I would have thought they had found a work around for supply and demand, especially with a bloody re-release of Horus Heresy!

[@ProjectMith]

how did movement work in 7th edition if it wasnt a set number like nowadays? I started in 8th but never knew about that!

[@robainsworth2014]

Sounds like playing old rules personally not a fan 9th Ed is the most balanced edition at least rules wise and the first edition ive ever seen melee as viable as shooting, but im glad tgeres a system for people who don't feel the same

[@ggwwggwwggwwggww]

In new horus heresy rules, If pre measuring is allowed?

[@ChrisPrice12]

On the Perils, yes you can pass it off on the unit.

[@intense_pickle]

GW: We're bringing Horus Heresy in plastic! Me" YAY! GW: We're making new rules for it! Me: YAAAA...Wait, wich edition are you using now? GW: 7th! Me: *walks away*

[@amangonemad5117]

This seems much more complicated than 9th random and I'm still not fully sure I understand all of 9th. I might have to pass this time

[@Zinkhar]

Just remember there aren't any strategems or command points at all, so that really helps reduce random/gotcha interactions. That, and most armies pull from the same unit pool with a couple extra legion specific ones. Once you understand the differences it plays well. The units are all much more customizable though.

[@amangonemad5117]

@@Zinkhar oh right good point

[@Nilmur2]

Interestingly when you were describing characteristic test, what you were saying was correct but what you have displaying on screen for general principles is the opposite of what you said

[@brettmeier8298]

Anyone have a pdf covering special rules?

[@What2Have4Dinner]

Dude this aired at like 3am UK time... dont tell me you were up till then editing this? Either way, fair play.

[@dmeep]

releases timed to coincide with americans being awake to gain bigger initial wiews and apease the algorithm

[@cameronmoore906]

Does anyone know what wall of death exactly does?

[@carminebattista3249]

Thanks for this really helpful sir

[@martyjean]

As someone who recently (re)discovered 40k I have to say that this rule set makes me realize just how basic and stripped down ninth edition is. I understand that simple rules makes it easier for more people to play, but seeing this updated version of seventh makes me realize just how terribly simple and dull ninth actually is.

[@nivektis]

I actually disagree. I had only played 9th till recently getting into HH. I was able to pick up a mates army with zero experience, be told what those units do and play a solid game straight away. 9th has way too many rules and then all the strats for your army and everyone elses. Special rules was the same for every one in HH so once i knew one I knew it for all armies. Fight first, fight last and fight normally is more complicated then all of HH rules.

[@chris_hobbies]

@@nivektis you only take the iniative characteristic as reference. Hight Initiative attack first, low initiative attack last is easy.

[@nivektis]

@@chris_hobbies Yeah agreed. Much easier. All the fight last and fight first in 9th is painful

[@MJ-jd7rs]

Did you miss the Brutal USR? I didn't see it.

[@ChrisPrice12]

I think it's in the Liber books.

[@moonlight39echo]

34:10 All I hear in my mind is "BROTHER I AM PINNED HERE"

[@cannedsnow4511]

I think youre missing the reaping blow usr i didnt see it

[@ChrisPrice12]

It's in the Liber Loyalist/Traitor books. Apparently some rules aren't going to be seen in the AdMech or more Imperial lists.

[@cannedsnow4511]

@@ChrisPrice12 cheers thank you

[@Argumemnon]

Ok now I need a second army, this time from 30k...

[@jjkingish]

This feels A LOT like 5th edition. Does anyone else feel that?

[@rcgunner7086]

Yeah, it's a return to 40K per-8th. Looks kind of different with the reactions though. Perhaps this is an alternative path for 40K.

[@mandemulus6196]

Can daemons be played in Horus Hersey as it's own faction?

[@thetaomegatheta]

So, terminators only have to roll their invulnerable save if they are hit with AP1 or better, rather than AP2 or better?

[@Julmala84]

Yes.

[@thetaomegatheta]

@@Julmala84 This seems to go directly counter to Goonhammer's review of the rules, as well as to how things worked before the 8th edition in 40k. What attacks are there that have AP1?

[@thetaomegatheta]

@@Julmala84 Just checked, and it seems that you and AT are incorrect on the matter. AP2 does ignore armour saves of 2+, AP3 ignores armour saves of 3+, and so on.

[@Julmala84]

AP1 also goes trough Armor Save of 2+ etc. AP1 Only affects Armor Penetration Rolls. Adds +1 to the dice roll result. Only way to get Vehicles with AV to Explode.

[@Julmala84]

@@thetaomegatheta AP2 goes trough Save of 2,3,4,5 and 6, not only AS of 2.

[@JbizzyG]

Reactions are cool, they should cost command points and we can dump most of the stratagems clogging up 40k.

[@rcgunner7086]

Or just ditch them all together.

[@ryanmack99]

Are there no Legio Custodes rules?

[@newtpondskipper]

Still holding on for the actual game play but it seems to be a nice clean up of the 1st edition rules. This just makes 9th that much worse IMO.

[@treydudley7966]

Better than 9E for sure.

[@Darkuwa]

Concussive and cumbersome are initiative not weapon skill

[@olmanmike3340]

Please review more HH stuff!

[@ashlevrier]

8th and 9th just fell apart for me. CP stuff everywhere and I got bored with it. This game feels like I am back home. Two games in and I am in love.

[@Drinkwateritsgood4u]

This has convinced me to go from 40k yo 30k

[@Nirakolov]

As the game should be

[@TeAXIIIT13]

Why does everyone keep comparing it to 9th 40k? Compare it to heresy since that’s what it is

[@What2Have4Dinner]

Most people on here play 9th 40k and that's what they know. If we dont know heresy 1.0 we can't compare.

[@aymericsimon6261]

because very vew people were playing 30k.

[@TeAXIIIT13]

@@aymericsimon6261 that’s just plain wrong, loads of people are playing 30k, it had a small drop off when 8th 40k came out but then had just been growing and growing

[@40kWarpHeroes]

right now this game is 100% better than 10 th edition, dont @ me

[@t.m.t3215]

Thanks

[@icklemoo]

Why would anyone run plasma when melta seems so much better … am I missing something here …

[@shadowsift]

Can't see comments

[@StackUnderflow1]

Pls do more horus heresy

[@Damnedlegion40k]

Add a comment...

[@richmcgee434]

Sigh. They bring back movement values which is good, but they're still sticking with that shitty all-or-nothing AP nonsense that 3rd edition introduced, which is bad. They're skipping on a chance to use HH to tweak the save mod system from 40K to see if they can get it right, which bodes ill for it being fixed in 10th. Ah well, wasn't like I was ever going to play this anyway.

[@mireadur]

Its paradoxical how armour mods would make more sense in HH while the fixed AP in 40k, since HH is mostly marines vs marines and you either gonna be saving on 2+/3+ or not saving while in 40k you have a lot of different factions with different armour saves where all kind of AP weapons would have a place. Anyway, ive always liked more the armour modifiers than the fixed AP system.

[@devangrey4376]

I never played 7th edition. I started at the beginning of 8th. I was hoping heresy would be a simpler or more balanced version of 40k. Does anyone think this? It looks just as complex or even more complex to me. I am not sure at all about the balance either. Stratagems seem to be an issue in 40k, among other things, rules bloat. Just my thoughts.

[@Winter420]

its far more simple, you will like it. the lack of command points and strategems is a huge difference in feel.

[@cireesco]

I don't know how much simpler it will be. No strats and CP are a nice change, but there are a ton of special rules.You will be referencing the book a lot in the beginning. I also feel like the core mechanics are a bit more difficult. That being said, it seems like once you get the most common special rules memorized, the games might be smoother.

[@LordMacragge31]

Heresy is a more complex game than 40k, that's how the player base likes it though.

[@nimphina]

5 years ago when 8th came out I would have said HH was far more complex. Now that we've gotten into 9th editon the codex bloat has made what is quite a nice system very unwieldy, with each army having multiple complex unique army special rules and load of strategems I would argue 40k is starting to edge ahead. HH has a larger barrier to entry but once you've learnt it it's fairly plain sailing. In terms of balance, in theory it should be better than 40k since the main focus is marine vs marine but we know that GW loves to esculate the power level as editions age so I fully expect the balance to get wonky overtime

[@devangrey4376]

@@Winter420 thanks for your thoughts