The Hurricane Category Scale Is Broken

[@MinuteEarth]

We always appreciate your surge of support for our videos! Want to become our Patreon or member on KZbin? Just visit www.patreon.com/MinuteEarth or click "JOIN". Thanks!

[@le9038]

Hi

[@imbored6287]

hi :D

[@daphne9941]

Helloo

[@coolmandan0303]

Nobody compares CAT 1 to CAT 5 based on the cost of damage... Who perceives threats by thinking "eh... it's a CAT 1 so it shouldn't' cost that much..."?

[@MinuteEarth]

Cost of damage is just a proxy for how much damage it will cause.

[@RainierKine]

Giving a power storm a low Category is going to lower the public's awareness and preparedness for it, making the death rate potentially higher as well.

[@MinuteEarth]

That’s what currently happens with hurricanes like Stan.

[@sourcererseven3858]

glad you made that point so I don't have to. Gets me back to procrastinating from writing my report 😬

[@sharadbhatt2900]

I also said that in my mind

[@n8dawg640]

So what’s your solution? Lie to the public? We already have enough alarmism from institutions of power, and the public isn’t buying it. Lie to your audience, and they’ll trust you even less

[@wdmc2012]

@@MinuteEarth No. What happened with Stan is that it hit a country that doesn't prepare for hurricanes. In 1998, Afghanistan was hit by a 5.9 magnitude earthquake. If this happened in California or Japan, it probably wouldn't even make the news. But in Afghanistan, it destroyed 15,000 homes and killed between 2000 and 4000 people. There are plenty of measures of poverty and vulnerability, but a hurricane or earthquake power scale should not be one of them.

[@chrismorong931]

"Because there is a single measurement that beats wind speed alone at predicting destruction: air pressure at the center of the storm" Hurricane Patricia: 872 mbar (2nd lowest globally) Hurricane Stan: 977 mbar

[@grife3000]

Welp, I guess we're just stuck with fearing super-huge super-fast slow-moving storms then. Knowing how populous the site that gets hit by the hurricane is really isn't helpful if you're the site that's getting hit, either.

[@andrewshore742]

This video is completely wrong. Anything else other than the wind speed, the storm surge and the duration of the storm is irrelevant. Why should I know the mbars? Why should I consider a cat 1 more dangerous than it really is if my house can withstand cat 1 winds and surges? Furthermore, the association that the lower the pressure, the more damage a hurricane will cause is ridiculous.

[@TalionRarshak]

thank you so much for giving numbers

[@otherodd]

@@andrewshore742 Because a hurricane isn’t dangerous because of wind, but because of tsunamis, rain etc.? That’s what they say here; don’t cover yourself from education

[@andrewshore742]

@@otherodd But it is useless for the individual citizen. If my area is going to be hit by a cat 1 and I know my house can’t withstand it, I evacuate regardless. And the height of the surge and the duration of the hurricane-force winds are already calculated by the NHC. Plus, talking about tsunamis in this case shows a lack of education on your part. And what about a hurricane is not dangerous because of the winds?

[@Kaitos11]

Some context was missing regarding Patricia: it weakened to a high-end 150mph Cat 4 hurricane before making landfall. It was still a monster but far from the historically powerful storm it was at it's peak. The damage would've been only a bit worse though as it still hit a relatively unpopulated area.

[@sohumchatterjee9]

Not to mention that Patricia capitulated almost as fast as it intensified

[@juliusnepos6013]

@@sohumchatterjee9 yeah

[@Nukestarmaster]

Yeah, and a hurricane hitting a sparsely populated area is hardly a relief when you live in said sparsely populated area.

[@MarkusAldawn]

@@Nukestarmaster that is a very excellent point, I did not consider that

[@parlousdiscord879]

@@sohumchatterjee9 small world eh? You're a f13 mod iirc right

[@monstaamonstaa]

absolutely splendid time to be recommending this, youtube...

[@invertedghostgames9899]

That's the algorithm for ya. Hurricane coming in? Better recommend everything we can relating to it.

[@theneoreformationist]

@@invertedghostgames9899 yup

[@Oko_predictable]

Lol

[@Ovenmanhehe]

Ikr

[@andrejonathan7607]

While not nearly as thorough as mentioned in the video, I feel like the CDPS scale ratings (by Force Thirteen) are far better indicators of how damaging the storm would be. It factors in the storm size, rainfall potential, wind speed, and threat to land. It's not a perfect scale, but it's pretty representative.

[@LeScratch89]

The downside with it (I follow F13 too) is that the scale is mostly experimental - these agencies have to work with what is both reliable and easy to convey to the public. The general public, unfortunately, grossly underestimates the power of water to wreak havoc or cause destruction. Weather enthusiasts and storm trackers/chasers know better but the average person doesn't.

[@TheSpiritombsableye]

Lol, force13 fans are a-spread.

[@sonkim6876]

@@TheSpiritombsableye Yes. But the weatherman plus channel is spreading more these days.

[@sonkim6876]

My thought about this video: His name is Julian? Oh well it was an 12 hours tropical storm this year. Didn't Patricia made landfall at an much lower intensity than 345 kph right? He think we can base on pressure to make a new scales? Ugh it don't help much...

[@TheSpiritombsableye]

@@sonkim6876 the channel isn't, but the creator of the channel posts everywhere.

[@ZeeengMicro]

The same for earthquakes. A scale 5 earthquake with a depth of less than 10 Km can be more destructive than a scale 7 earthquake with a depth of +100 Km. Not to mention the location of the epicenter and the potential cause of tsunami.

[@sandifirmansyah1988]

in real life. when a natural disaster occurs what is needed is the speed in retrieving information from the disaster, not how accurate information the disaster is. so that most information when a disaster occurs is not very accurate and unpredictable.

[@JarieSuicune]

Perhaps, but what good is that when you are trying to inform the people BEFORE it hits? You can't tell how bad it will really turn out until it's already over. The point is to try to convey as much information as possible in as little time/detail as possible to help as many people as possible, regardless of their understanding or experience.

[@lukasrentz3238]

Though for that we have Intensity. A shallow Mw5 Quake can have Intensity VIII while a (very) deep Mw7 can be as low as IV. Still doesn't account for the Quality of Buildings nor for potential Tsunamis.

[@zBPS]

USGS does this for earthquakes, shaking intensity 1-10 based on those factors.

[@patrickboosiefadin]

no way they call it an epic center lmao

[@WurstRELOADED]

I don't disagree with the central message of the video but I take issue with the claim that location of impact should be taken into consideration for the scale. As you said, the purpose of the scale is to provide an easily accessible rating of danger to citizens. The information they are interested in is not "How many people will it kill" but rather "How likely is it to kill me and what steps should I take to reduce that chance".

[@TheExalaber]

But, the topography of the location of impact greatly influences that. As they mentioned in the video, mountains do a great deal to quickly dissipate storms.

[@MinuteEarth]

The same hurricane hitting two different areas can have a very different outcome. So it is definitely relevant to an individual if they live in an area less likely to produce a storm surge, more likely to slow the storm down (like a mountainous terrain), or the opposite.

[@uhohhotdog]

@@MinuteEarth no. A person needs to know how it will impact them not how it will impact people 100 miles away.

[@mpk6664]

@@uhohhotdog This. Basing the categories on the type of land it will hit won't help. Hurricanes are huge. One that hits the Florida/Georgia/Alabama line will have two completely different "categories" because all the areas are different geographically. The NHC already puts out models of storm surge and rain for the areas that will be impacted. There's even an interactive map that highlights the low areas that will be hit the most. Perhaps we can have a PDS hurricane warning such as a PDS tornado warning? If a hurricane is going to hit an area that has a high population or has the potential to be catastrophic we can issue a PDS for that area just like a tornado warning.

[@rocks813]

I agree. And besides, hurricanes and other cyclones are not always predictable. So then, what might happen to the storm's category if it unexpectedly recurves or diverges from its predicted path? Do we lower its category? Or could it be that this erratic movement is just a short-term trend, and that the storm will actually tread the forecasted path? So then, do we raise its category again? I don't know. While it has flaws, the Saffir-Simpson scale is mostly unproblematic, since it uses just a single variable (i.e., maximum sustained winds) to give a glimpse of potential conditions when the storm comes ashore. Also, the NHC provides other information in other weather products, such as their (Experimental) Storm Surge Predictions and Wind Speed Probabilities, to discuss the real threats and potential damage, outside the technicalities of hurricane strength. By factoring in the expected path of the hurricane, population, and other factors involved, we complicate the scale by allowing for sudden category changes (in the event of sudden changes in hurricane path), confuse the public just as we are confused by the erratic nature of hurricanes and the atmosphere, and in the end, we defeat the purpose of why hurricane wind scales and other separate products exist in the first place.

[@iwanabana]

Please. STOP it with the "individual footprint" baloney. Tell people to go to places where they can pressurize / choose lawmakers who prioritize the environment. Switching out some plastic cutlery won't do anything.

[@ShirinRose]

Yes, this. I highly recommend Kurzgesagt's latest video (titled "Can YOU Fix Climate Change?") to anyone who hasn't seen it yet.

[@fish3977]

blowing up fossil fuel infrastructure is a moral duty

[@gkk116]

@@fish3977 but blowing fossil fuel up will release it to the atmosphere. leftist debunked B)

[@Khazuldar]

@@gkk116 probably meant blowing it up metaphorically, as in taking it down or destroying it.

[@B3Band]

@@Khazuldar whoosh

[@Darknimbus3]

Don’t underestimate the wind though, as wind can cause much more damage than this video suggests. On top of that, a hurricane’s wind is the root of the damage causes, including the floods and storm surges, as you partially explained why in this video. That’s why we use the category system in the first place. The reasoning behind that is much more complex than you suggest in this video.

[@SoulDevoured]

Tornadoes are more likely to level buildings than hurricanes but their winds can flatten entire landscapes. Something even the largest tornadoes couldn't do. We go by winds because it's easy to see how scary they can be... How insanely costly they can be...

[@Vgy1592]

I don't think they were ever trying to say that the winds are harmless, they were trying to say that hurricanes that get classified as low threat have been just as bad, at times. And they're not wrong. As someone who's lived in areas affected by hurricanes, I can honestly say, there's a very real threat in the underestimation of the threat a hurricane can cause based on a category scale that only factors one potential threat of a hurricane. People usually won't evacuate over a category 1 or 2 hurricane. When the other factors around that hurricane get bad despite that low category, people die because they underestimated it and didn't leave -- or worse, the businesses, schools, and other such things wouldn't close down over "lower threats", pressuring people to not evacuate when they should. Wind is a serious threat, but it shouldn't be treated like the *only* threat.

[@Spladoinkal]

Honestly. Wind speed is what causes storm surge anyways, it's just that more storm surge happens when the high winds last longer.

[@stephenmontverde]

The premise of this video is that the category scale is broken because it depends on ‘wind’ alone. It’s not broken. It just is what it is. The National Hurricane Center puts out other products to convey predicted rainfall, storm surge, etc. A “combined” category is hard to create because the geography of where the storm hits, and how fast the storm is moving often contribute far more to how destructive or deadly a hurricane might be. Minimum central pressure does not solve the problem, its just combines wind field and wind speed into a single measure. A better argument would be that “category” is not the best metric to disseminate to the public, except, if you actually get hit by the eye wall, it is.

[@glowingfish]

I agree and was going to post the same thing. It would only be broken if they were saying "This is the only valid tool and it explains everything!". Any scale or measurement is going to be a simplification, and wind speed also corresponds with size and amount of water a storm can hold, most of the time.

[@Chiberia]

the issue, then, is how it's used - kinda the same way people are lazy so use Social Security numbers for everything (even though the social security organization begs people not to). at the end of the day, it's the composite model that newscasters and even meteorologists choose to use to communicate risk to the general public. in that sense, it fails miserably - just because there are other products out there, doesn't mean they're in use as ubiquitously. you can't change people being lazy, but you can provide an improved composite model to mitigate those flaws. tornados moving to the EF scale (although certainly not perfect - just ask Reno) is a great example of this growth over time.

[@jinxed7915]

​@@Chiberiais the EF scale really a great example here though? The EF scale was merely a tweak, and it isn't even used the same as the classification of tropical cyclones. The EF scale only sorts of tornadoes after the fact, both because of how shorted lived they are and because of the very nature of how the scale works. I agree with the original comment here, although I'll add that central pressure itself is not a helpful metric as it isn't tied 1:1 to wind speed, size, or any other aspect of a storm. At the end of the day, better communication between forecasters (national AND local), public officials, and the public themselves is needed. A cultural change is also needed to make people respect the dangers of these systems, but that's an issue that's harder to tackle directly and one that will take time. The Saffir-Simpson scale is doing fine because category itself isn't and wasn't supposed to be the end all be all of conveying the dangers of a storm. Wind speed does translates to more structural damage and more storm surge, and all of the dangers from a storm are put into very straightforward documents that the NHC puts out ahead of time, so the issue really is communication and not that the storms are classified at all

[@daveharrison84]

Make safety diamonds for hurricanes. One rating for wind speed, one for pressure, one for storm surge, one for rain.

[@JC60143]

That will confused the public unfortunately

[@battlepans1927]

That’s a really smart idea in theory, but then you realize only people who look it up will know what it means, compared to somethibg simple and memorable like “category 5”. Categories are easier for us to understand

[@MorbidMindedManiac]

Something like that would be cool, but I bit complicated Maybe have that, but in the center of the diamond is a general threat level like “CATEGORY 1” or “CATEGORY 5” like we already have to combine the best of both

[@Relkond]

The hurricane with a hazard diamond of 1337 though.... be wary of it. That said, if you’re in a flood plane, you don’t need a hurricane to kill lots of people. Just a bunch a rain all at once, and you don’t need hurricanes to get bulk rain. Hurricanes do get to be very situational - what they encounter along their path can drastically modify what damage they deal... or put another way: If you live in a glass house, you should probably worry about the boy with a baseball and bat, should he visit your block. If you live in a brick house... not so much.

[@Mr___f]

Love it but the rain idea would be so impossibly hard to determine which is why this video is kind of pointless.

[@MartinHoeckerMartinez]

The direction of the wind arrows in this video are incorrect. They should depict air rising at the center of the storm and circulating winds flowing inward near the surface and outward above the cloud tops (the drawings at 1:27 and 2:49 show the opposite)

[@maxinecaulfield310]

Minute physics/ minute earth are rarely ever accurate.

[@corwynjohnson4066]

Thanks for pointing it out. I'm glad someone else caught that too

[@cicadafun]

Air is constantly rising and falling while spiralling towards the center of the eye, that's how convection works in the atmosphere. The center itself will always have air falling in it causing the eye.

[@mpk6664]

I think they're actually trying to represent the rotation instead of updrafts and downdrafts. It's definitely a weird graphic.

[@Sweet_Squad4ever]

It's so informative. Specially here in the Philippines who always have Typhoons and our geographic locations doesn't help since we are near Pacific Ocean.

[@MazdaTiger]

but our systems are way better than what US have since we factor in the (low) pressure + moonsoons + geography + tides, and even comparing history of past storms basically what 1:55 is

[@emmettturner9452]

As someone who is currently homeless after being hit directly by the strongest part of the only EF-4 tornado this year, I’d like to point out that Hurricane Katrina had significantly lower wind speeds at landfall and it covered a larger area. Obviously, they were also below sea level with an enormous storm surge but as far as downed trees and torn roofs and crushed cars at the worst hit areas go, tornados can be worse. Some of my neighbors didn’t have a single wall left standing.

[@davewilson13]

Hope you get back on your feet soon. Good luck mate.

[@emmettturner9452]

@@davewilson13 Thank you!

[@KaiserStormTracking]

Katrina was primarily bad due to levee failures and high surge.

[@emmettturner9452]

@@KaiserStormTracking Yes, and with parts being at or below sea level they really relied on those. Still, comparing localized wind damage between Katrina, Ida, etc: The long-track EF-4 was worse. For the people who escape hurricane storm surges, tornadoes can be worse. It still looks like the Tunguska Event in places out here and the homes were absolutely ravaged in The City of Homes (Newnan).

[@B3Band]

Just buy another house. Pull yourself up from your bootstraps like any good Republican would.

[@ericasharris]

Who's watching in 2024? Hurricane Helene was a complete TERROR of destruction recently. Now Hurricane Milton is on his way. 😭

[@ar-videos]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/jnfMimivppqmmLcsi=DQpGKe8_deeRUWMa news is talking pressure

[@brythkaltaris]

And it has hit and yet another terror

[@mikes78]

The video is 3 years old and still equally relevant and useful.

[@Piiggynoob]

Has a resident of brevard county (an county in central Florida) this hurricane was mostly based on wind

[@santinosalamanca4378]

being a non-unitedstatian everything sounds unknown to me (no offense)

[@shadowstorm79mc]

Seems to me that Just modifying it into a 3 part system would be best. the storm itself having a category (1-5) based on wind speed storm size & pressure, In conjunction with adding a category system (1-5) for storm surge. Add an area risk rating system (low-med-high) based on things like Vulnerability to flooding And population density. Somthing like that could cover almost all the bases nicely And provide people with a much better idea of what they're going to be dealing with.

[@JarieSuicune]

So, what you are really suggesting is to generate a 5x5x3 rating system with 75 possible outcomes? (Windspeed/pressure x storm surge x area risk) The general idea is to convey as much possible information in as little a descriptor as possible, since you absolutely SHOULD NOT assume that any given person understands what your terms are. Assumptions like that get people killed. Even if you were to write the ratings as "WS3-SS2-AR4", that's a terribly unclear answer to "How dangerous is this event to my life/home/area?" when asked by the average person. It needs to be as clear as possible to the most average person who has just moved into the area from the middle of the Rocky Mountains or whatever and happens to have absolutely zero experience or understanding of hurricanes and has never had even the slightest reason to worry or care.

[@shadowstorm79mc]

@@JarieSuicune nah for The kind of people that can't understand a level 5 hurricane with a level 5 storm surge In a high risk area is a really bad Are the kind of people that were going to stay no matter what anyway I live in Florida you best believe We don't just go off the storm category And the people down here too lazy to do the extra research ask the people they know that aren't Besides it's only 25 possible outcomes As the Low medium high risk factor doesn't Change For a given area unless you move

[@grandstrategos1144]

@ShadowMatter Using permutations get you 75 outcomes. 5 (number of wind speed levels) * 5 (number of storm surge levels) * 3 (number of risk levels). Maybe you can remove some, but the video shows that a 1-1-high is certainly possible

[@shadowstorm79mc]

@@grandstrategos1144 You seem to not understand the fact that Unless you are moving from region to region your risk category does not change

[@N12015]

@@shadowstorm79mc Ahh, like the city map I have to tell me where there's a tsunami threat. Surprisingly useful because where I live there's lots of both earthquakes, coasts and hills, making it so people knows there's Tsunami risk and the hills you can safely evacuate to.

[@beeallen2743]

This reminds me of tornadoes. An EF2 in a field could be stronger and have faster windspeed than an EF4 in a city because the category of the tornado is based on the damage it does. And instead of telling us what kind of twister is coming, we get told there's a tornado warning and you gotta get in the cellar or grab a beer and some popcorn and get out on the back porch with the old camcorder. We don't worry about how big it was till after it's gone and we're getting first responders where they need to be.

[@LeScratch89]

There are better measures to scale a storm's destructive potential by, but even for "advanced" agencies like the NHC those measures are still mostly experimental and an added-on forecast product due to the high uncertainty. Wind speed is, unfortunately, the best method we currently have with any degree of reliability to measure a storm's power by, that the general public will also kind-of understand - your average person will not understand how air pressure relates to wind speed, storm size, and storm surge. Forecast agencies have to go with reliability first because it's their responsibility to inform and warn the public, so until other methods catch up we will be dependent on this type of scale. Other agencies worldwide use their own variants of the SSHWS pertinent to their own areas of responsibility for the same reason, like the cyclone intensity scales in the Indian Ocean and Southern Hemisphere or the typhoon intensity scales in the Western Pacific. When we have enough data with other tools and methods to reliably forecast the impacts of storm surge and potential rainfall flooding, I would expect those to be considered for forming a new or supplementary scale for tropical cyclones.

[@KuruGDI]

I drive a big diesel powered SUV that uses 15 liters per 100km. I thought of changing my habits and decrease not only my driven kilometers, but also my energy consumption overall. But thanks to wren I can keep going the same way I did without changing anything because I pay to get a few trees planted and now I'm even with nature and the climate. Thanks wren! I hope you understand where my sarcasm is heading...

[@DreckbobBratpfanne]

One thing missing is that Patricia had the fastest weakening a storm had ever gone through before landfall, she was nowhere, nowhere, close to the 215mph strength of before.

[@chadpowell1832]

As someone who live in a Hurricane prone area ( just got hit by one this year ) all this stuff makes so much sense . Don’t let a small category prevent you from preparing

[@fearlv1rattata]

I think you're onto something with this. I think each location should have a resiliency score that could be matched up against a hurricanes ratings to predict damage.

[@confusioned2249]

I'm terrified of what a category 5 factorial storm would look like

[@Fighter_Blue]

it would destroy everything. If the scale went up 15 mph per category then it would be around 1874 mph winds.

[@Antikyth]

@@Fighter_Blue sweet gentle summer breeze :)

[@Fighter_Blue]

​@@Antikyth The breeze really tickles my insides.

[@mukrifachri]

Some countries already detach disaster warnings from the intensity of the phenomenon itself - ie. Japan Meteorological Agency does this very well for storm surges/inundation risk and landslides as well as for earthquake shaking (presumably incl. liquefaction but they protect against that pretty well). Now if only every country does this... Also AFAIK central eye pressures have already been used (albeit as a secondary reference) in Saffir-Simpson scale ?

[@MonkeyJedi99]

Sadly, many people (at least in the US, my only data pool) have decades of programming to "feel better" with simplified input. Hurricane? Category 1-5. Tornado? (E)F 1-?. Terrorism? Five step color scale. Threat of war? Five number scale. We are continually steered away from nuance.

[@ComicalRealm]

"If any structure survives a Category 5 hurricane, a Category 6 hurricane will finish the job." - Ultra Instinct Shaggy

[@JesusMartinez-rr2ry]

You're never going to survive my torrential downpour of my heat-seeking wrath!!!🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

[@engirckt5410]

@@JesusMartinez-rr2ry what

[@JamesSavik]

How fast the storm moves is a huge factor. Katrina was "only" a Cat 3 storm, but it was huge and moving slowly. It took almost 36 hours to move over us.

[@bignems314]

See, we have the opposite problem with tornadoes. Tornadoes are rated solely based on damage and only account for "certified" wind speed, which means that tornadoes like the giant El Reno one get rated at F4 or F3 instead of F5 like they should be. I'd rather know the wind speed and have the understanding that anything called a hurricane is severe, but maybe thats just me

[@1.4142]

2:50 The visual of wind blowing down is kind of misleading. Low pressure causes water to bulge upward, in addition to wind pushing water onto land.

[@PancakeMixNZL]

My thoughts exacty. Saw the airflow they represented and thought 'uh that's not quite right...?!' Glad I'm not the only one to notice it.

[@grife3000]

An excellent video, except you didn't give us the categories for the different pressures so we could use that information.

[@duckymomo7935]

Also because the mbars doesn’t actually say much

[@Jay-ps4vv]

I literally just had a geography lesson covering this

[@PhantomKING113]

3:11 Therapist: Category 120 hurricane doesn't exist, it can't hurt you. Category 120 hurricane:

[@determinedhelicopter2948]

Took me a moment to get the joke

[@AntoineLavoisier]

You bring up some good points. A hurricane can bring a variety of hazards and it’s often the flooding component (between surge and rainfall) that causes the most fatalities. The original Saffir-Simpson scale did factor in storm surge and pressure. However, due to hurricanes like Katrina (Cat. 3 winds at landfall, Cat. 5 surge), the scale was remodeled to be solely based on wind speed. The NHC/NWS approach in the modern era is to communicate the risks associated with each individual hurricane since as you showed, there are non-meteorological factors that contribute to how destructive and deadly a hurricane can be.

[@andyfriederichsen]

This is basically the opposite of the issue the EF tornado scale has with ignoring windspeed and rating only on damage.

[@mattm7220]

The other big contributor to lower category hurricanes/cyclones being more dangerous is that when the category is lower, people are more complacent about the storm. They either prepare less, or are just plain careless with their actions during the event. That complacency can be a major factor in why there's often higher injury and loss of life during less severe events. And unfortunately, human complacency will always be a driving factor regardless of any overhauls made to the rating system.

[@Chritin]

To quote a funny CS;GO man… Category 1 - Pussy Shit Category 2 - Wind Category 3 - More Wind Category 4 - A pretty high amount of wind Category 5 - Rectal Prolapse.

[@sirapple589]

Where’s that quote from?

[@GMBlunderfish1]

Patricia hit between dense areas in a sparsely populated gap, thus missing the damage hot spots and was a compact hurricane that had a relatively small inner core. The inner core is the most damaging part of the storm as it is where those 200 mph winds and 3 cm/hr rains occur accompanied by 7 to 10 metres high storm surge. The outer areas are also capable of damaging, but not as much.

[@aron1332]

It is not even 215 mph atorm when it impacted. It made landfall with winds of 155 mph

[@zachw2906]

I would like to point out that Wren is a way for big business to shift responsibility onto the individual when individuals like us have almost no direct impact on climate change

[@o76923]

Oh hey, another Kurzgesagt fan.

[@uncletacosupreme7023]

Im not going to lie. At first I thought you were headed towards an enhanced scale similiar to that of the EF rating of a tornado. But after hearing this out, I 100% agree. I have always paid more attention to Mb during a hurricane. It tells so much more about its health. Good stuff!

[@SixDigitOsu]

What a time to recommend this...

[@Amanus6666]

and so what?

[@SixDigitOsu]

@@Amanus6666 wdym "so what"?

[@ZeyTheGamer09]

​@@Amanus6666wdym?

[@laboriousjourneyfanreal]

Florida.

[@ItsJayJenkins848]

Philippines. The Philippines got hit by more than 5 or 8 typhoons. Most of which are category 4 and 5. So much damage has been done to the upper part of luzon since every typhoon heads towards them

[@akiyajapan]

This exact thing happmed recently with a huge typhoon in Japan. When it first hit the West, the winds caused a bit of damage at first and a few deaths, but the strength went down by a lot and as it moved across Japan, only mild winds and light rain came in, making it extremely anticlimactic compared to what everyone was being told to expect. You'd think the forecasters would've learned by now, but I guess that hype in the news is always priority, even in Japan.

[@Theweatherguy]

I see what you're saying, but I think there isn't a need to change the scale due to the fact that the weather services inform their audience about all those aspects (path, surge levels, rain, etc.).

[@Hypurr1]

Everything you mentioned is valid and in a hurricane prone area, such as SE Louisiana where I live, the meteorologists mention and drive in all of these factors when a storm is approaching. The category is not what they use so much as they predict the storm surge, the speed of the storm, the rainfall amounts and all of the other factors. Yes, the category system is outdated, but in areas where they hit that is not what they warn about. Right now I'm living in an RV as my house was destroyed by Ida and is being renovated. They pound into us that the main problem is not wind speed but the pressure, storm surge and rainfall. They constantly update us with the pressure as it falls and measure the potential strenghth by the pressure.

[@bforbiggy]

I know that statistically there's only one or two people that are affected by this but at 0:30, it'd have to suck to hear someone say "Thankfully, only a few people died." when you are one of the few who did have someone you know die. Probably nobody cares, and in the context of the video it is an insignificant mention when there are thousands of people dying everywhere but DAMN, I still wouldn't describe it like that.

[@duck1ente]

In the Philippines, PAGASA (the local weather agency) issues color coded status for rainfall depending on the amount. It starts from green, yellow, orange, and the highest alert which is red. The color code is raised for not just typhoons, but also thunderstorms.

[@goverat]

I'm pretty sure Australia uses pressure to determine cyclones, then there's a guide as to what to expect

[@hoseasylvester2596]

Everywhere uses pressure

[@ghostyidk9383]

No it doesn’t. It uses wind speed.

[@lyonmane2689]

The low pressure is strong enough to suck the water towards the center of the storm, not blow it out towards the front(which would be a high pressure system). Since the storm is moving, it ends up dragging the water slightly behind the center since water is more dense than air. This makes the worst of the storm surge hit at or after the eye crosses land depending on how fast the storm is moving

[@lern2reed]

Watching this while Milton’s kicking our ass.

[@Amanus6666]

what do you expect when 90% of Florida houses are made of thin drywall and also located in the super flat

[@mikestermike]

Big misconception about winds. They RISE in the center of the storm, with the outflow forming an anticyclone in the upper elevations (the "outflow cirrus" is a result"). In fact, it is the rising that lowers pressure (that and velocity). Winds are not "drawn down", but rather pulled in.

[@noritamiaa]

recommended while Milton is being called a “cat 6”

[@venomioo]

💀

[@DiarioDeTiburon]

⚡

[@blackfalcon1324]

Funny thing is if continued the scale cat 6 wouldn’t be as big of a deal as people say it is. We’ve had multiple cats 7sand cat 8s

[@venomioo]

@@blackfalcon1324 blud is just yapping for the sake of it

[@thesfsguy6248]

@@venomiooholy brainrot

[@michaell874]

I agree that the category rating needs to be updated because it only takes into consideration wind speed, which is different on either side of the storm, depending on which direction the storm is going. Rain is a big factor as well, but storm surge at the time the storm hits landfall has a huge impact and must be used by calculating measures differently depending on the sea levels of the areas the storms hit, in addition to areas prone to flooding and population density. Obviously areas along the coast in the South, including the panhandle, are prone to larger wind speeds due to the warmer waters, but ocean temperatures are imperative to calculate into the new category scale for hurricanes. Lastly, the rate of speed the storm is traveling will make a difference, especially with heavy rainfalls, especially in areas prone to flooding. Maybe the isobar numbers can be added too the equation too.

[@joshdoeseverything4575]

Patricia was an absolute monster. It RAPIDLY weakened before landfall though and hit rural coast. Not a fair comparison

[@KaiDub24]

Honestly watching videos like this make me feel extremely grateful since I live in hurricane prone Bermuda but aren’t too bothered by these things. Our reef system mostly protects us from any kind of storm surge (and we’re by no means flat so water doesn’t have anywhere to settle) and our houses are made of stone so wind doesn’t do much either. We just stay inside. Have hurricane parties then come out the next day for cleanup (mostly tree debris) and carry on like nfn even happened

[@C1914]

Mexico’s second largest city is in that “rural” area. As well as some other cities. Yucatan is a bunch of tropical forest and Central Mexico is mountainous and on a plateau. Only the coast is flat.

[@furyinferno2234]

there is a scale called the CDPS scale which takes into account of storm size, surge, winds, expected rainfall and overall threat to land, it is a scale from 1-10. 1 been minimal damage and 10 being extreme damage.

[@D-Man_Jam]

This just reaffirms the rule that Stans should not be messed with.

[@r0cketplumber]

Storm surge and rainfall are why I chose a home on the mainland side of a coastal estuary (Florida's misnamed Indian River), protected from storm surge by the small inlet (Sebastian) being many miles away. We're 14 feet above a wide creek channel that drains into the Indian River so even very strong rainfalls are shunted away from us.

[@Short_n_sweeter]

I know why it was less damage and deths on stan and patricia. Because stan was not caterigory 5 and the town was less aware so they died and didnt protect their house unlike patricia

[@f12sus]

It’s similar to the Richter earthquake scale… you can have a 6.5 earthquake, but the level of destruction isn’t necessarily the scale size, it also has to do with the depth… the shallower the earthquake the more damage. So the scale can be deceiving.

[@eggplayz5235]

Interesting! Great job everyone who made this.

[@Theoneandonlybaconking]

Thank you! Hurricane when it hit us I’m pretty sure they said it was a cat 1, yet it still tore up a hut that was cemented to the ground 2-3 legs with all concrete still in tasted got TORE out of the ground

[@wowshiii4519]

Of course KZbin recommending this while an actual hurricane is going on

[@mspectrite8025]

A recent example of miscalculating a hurricane's windspeed was in july of 2021 when hurricane felicia was roaring over the pacific ocean, the NHC mistankenly estimated felicia's windspeed at 145 mph, along with a pressure of 945mb, but, recon flights weren't available at the time which caused the incorrect estimate, the true windspeed was probably around 155 mph, with a true pressure of 937 or 936mb

[@ikeroran7911]

evidence.

[@unitgamex2972]

You didn’t mention that there’s such thing as the CDPS scale. So the system isn’t entirely broken

[@michaeligbinoba2894]

That's not official. The creator still hasn't even published a paper on it so

[@unitgamex2972]

@@michaeligbinoba2894 yeah, But this guy thinks that the Safir Simpson scale is meant to rate the potential damage but it’s meant to rate how strong the winds are

[@throwbiegd6627]

@@unitgamex2972 yeah thats what kinda pisses me off with this vid

[@ikeroran7911]

@@unitgamex2972 yeah

[@foxfires8237]

Look, I'm no meteorologist, but I can see some problems here. There's a very big flaw in the idea to use pressure instead of wind: The fact that both are correlated. Sure, it's not super accurate (like say, Hurricane Wilma and Gilbert have the same wind speeds but Wilma has a lower pressure), but that's the general idea; a category 5 will have a lower pressure than that of a category 1. So does changing it to pressure really make that much of a difference? Another problem I have is the example they gave at the start. The example of Hurricane Stan and Patricia goes against the idea to use pressure. Why? because Patricia has a much lower pressure than that of Stan both at peak intensity and at landfall, at 872mbar and 932mbar respectively. Stan had a minimal central pressure of 977mbar, however. So clearly barometric pressure isn't that good at determining damage either right? So, knowing this, why should it be changed anyways? It's the winds that're ripping people's roofs off. Now there was an argument about storm surge in the comments I think. Does lower pressure mean higher surge? Yes, but most of that surge is caused by wind, and only about 5% is caused by pressure. scied.ucar.edu/learning-zone/storms/what-causes-storm-surge I don't know, maybe I missed some things, and while I think the SSHWS needs a fix, barometric pressure isn't that good of a replacement either. And also, would you mind giving me reasons why air pressure is better? Like, all the reasons. And last thing, there are some more reasons why Patricia didn't cause that much damage. I can remember which ones were listed in the video so I'll just list all the ones I know. Unfortunately Patricia not doing a ton of damage gives the impression that the hurricane, that's basically an oversized EF5 tornado, isn't something to be worried too much about, even though it is. -Patricia made landfall as a high-end category 4, not at peak intensity (about 100km/h weaker). -Patricia weakened amazingly rapidly. After making landfall, it went from a 240km/h category 4 to a tropical storm in 7 hours. -Patricia intensified so quickly it didn't have time to build up much storm surge. -Patricia was a very compact storm, and its strong winds were confined to the center. -Patricia hit a very sparsely populated area. -I'm pretty sure a bunch of the people in the area were evacuated.

[@foxfires8237]

And another thing that's somewhat off-topic that I want to talk about is underestimation of a specific storm. Typhoon Rammasun made landfall on Hainan Island on July 2014. According to the JTWC, it had 1-min winds of 260km/h, with a pressure of 918mb. This would make the storm a category 5 on both the SSHWS, and the proposed pressure scale. However, the JMA (the RSMC of the West Pacific basin, in which every estimate given by this agency is the official one regardless of everyone else's) gave Rammasun a pressure of 935mb (and also technically 10-min winds of 165km/h but the converted result is... highly unlikely to be true), which would make Rammasun a category 4 on the pressure scale. Now, both the JTWC and JMA, as well as the HKO, are objectively wrong for Rammasun's pressure (though for some reason none of the estimates have been changed), as a much lower pressure was recorded within the storm. The CMA gave the storm a pressure of 888mb, derived from the aforementioned recorded pressure of 899.2mb (which was not in the eye), recorded by a station in Qizhou Island. So, according to this, Rammasun should've already far surpassed the threshold for a category 5 on the pressure scale. Unfortunately, the JMA severely underestimated the storm and now we are left with an official pressure of 935mb, an estimated pressure far higher than even other agencies' underestimations, and honestly, I doubt they'd ever change it.

[@foxfires8237]

Ok so apparently one of the replies I sent isn't here why well I'm too lazy to write it again so.. guess what it was I guess

[@notabots4602]

Hello 👋. This is a interesting video and I didn’t know that the system was this broken.

[@KaiserStormTracking]

Cause it isn't

[@cindyeisenberg8367]

Florida has had so many hurricanes that we don’t worry too much about cat ones. Though a thunderstorm that spawns a tornado can be dangerous too.

[@ZeroKami86]

Wren's website must've changed because it didn't show me any of that. I answered all the questions then just showed me 3 expensive plans. edit: I am proud of my 9.5 rating though, much lower than the average in the US.

[@Treebark1313]

If you want to really make a difference, harang your local and state representatives about climate action. Get everyone you know to do the same thing. Your individual impact on the climate is minuscule compared to what a handful of companies and governments are doing. Climate change is a political issue, unfortunately.

[@icarlyIV]

I feel this is a greater issue with tornadoes. Because the tornado scale ( enhanced fujita) is solely based on damage caused. A good example of this scale being faulty was the May 31 2013 el rino tornado. It was the largest by size on record, had 296 mph winds at its peak. However, since it was mostly in unpopulated areas, it only got an EF3 rating.

[@unjordi]

Well, this aged like fine wine🍷

[@andresibarra9914]

i was hit by hurricane Patricia, I did not do as much damage as other hurricanes but thanks to its speed and size it was easily the scariest thing I have ever witnessed and heard.

[@delev11]

Currently watching this in Houston after Hurricane Beryl knocked out my house's power and 1.8 million other Centerpoint energy customers

[@kerrypryor1146]

I.live in MI and of you see someone named Gloria Connell that's my grandma

[@brookiiecookie199]

Yeah, but that’s cuz Texas is inept at infrastructure

[@i8ap4t53]

The scale based on windspeed is suitable for manufacturing, and insurance purposes. Which is why it wont be replaced anytime soon. It's an easy metric to get your building material tested against. eg fire a 2x4 at your product at X speed, and you'll get your certs stamped.

[@paulsmyers203]

Simplifying something as significant and complex as a hurricane down to a single number is just idiotic. Why not report all the numbers that we are able to collect?

[@angrynoodletwentyfive6463]

yeah, great plan. lets just shove a shit ton of numbers they would in no way understand the context of at the laymen and let them figure it out! especially considering a lot of these storms tear through areas where access to even a high-school level of education can be sparse. Something tells me that a bunch of People many of whom Might not have even been given the opportunity to take Algebra 1 are going to be really great at figuring out what those numbers mean as it applies to the severity of the storm that is barreling towards them.

[@KaiserStormTracking]

Catagorys are just to say how strong the system is which is easier Same with tornadoes. Higher up the scale, the stronger it is etc The scales purpose is just as a guide. The storm itself is usually changed in strength or Category post-season anyway. Iota was a CAT5 but post season it became a CAT4 due to SFMR values being inaccurate at the time of the CAT5 reading But trust me the everyday person might not get it but theres a ton if people on the platform who do

[@gmdrandom6287]

We do. NHC measures basically all possible data to create predictions on rainfall, surge, and wind possibilities. Category is only for wind classification, and even NHC understands that there is more to a hurricane

[@theholk]

I feel like this is a bad argument to lay at the scale: It's not particularly a quality of the hurricane that population density increases negative outcomes. On a "per person watching the weather report" the effect IS proportional to the scale, even if a given path increases the number of people that risk applies to. Apply that logic to earthquakes.... The magnitude of an eathquake is a reasonable measure, even though WHERE it hits has a vastly greater input on the overall outcome. And a similar (but weaker) argument can be made in regards to the "wetness". Yes coastal regions have higher impact proportionally to the scale, but that too is "a constant", and thus blaming the scale for not incorporating it is... flawed.

[@Theokaychannel69]

Florida is cooked

[@no_name4796]

Yeah, two devastating category 5 back to back

[@lucalopez9604]

I worked on a government agency dedicated to ambiental protection during the time of Patricia. Everyone in the office was incredibly stressed about it and relocating all our resources to deal with the disaster. Then it changed trajectory. And then the threat got lower and lower each day. And then it hit and it was far from the damage we expected and were like "... So what are we doing this week?"

[@Thebreakdownshow1]

I am surprised they donot consider water as a factor. One would assume considering it’s peoples lives that are at stake.

[@mattmarzula]

You can't determine that factor until it makes landfall. You can determine the wind speed. So there's that.

[@Thebreakdownshow1]

@@mattmarzula That is true. have you ever been in a hurricane for close to the area where there was one.

[@KaiserStormTracking]

Surge isn't factored until a landfall is forecasted 3-5 days out

[@stevenroshni1228]

When the big city that got all hyped up gets minimal damage and one outer suburb gets destroyed, the forecasters the want to maintain that they were only off by ten miles.

[@bunny-sk5rc]

love you minute earth 🌍❤️

[@doritosbag1054]

The CDPS (cyclone damage potential scale), coined by Force Thirteen, takes into account the rainfall potential, storm size, maximum winds, and overall threat to land, and gives it a rating out of ten. This is probably the best form of measuring damage potential I’ve seen but it’s still pretty unknown.

[@B3Band]

The problem with a subjective "opinion" scale is that in America that would open you up to legal liability if the numerical "opinion" you provide is less than what the storm actually ends up being. And knowing this country, you might even get sued if you predict a higher number too, because Karens were forced to leave their vacation for a storm that turned out to be no big deal.

[@deidara_8598]

Also let's stop giving them cute names like "Stan" and "Patricia". Let's call them stuff like "Baphomet", "Sauron", and "Eye of Destruction", that'll get people to take em seriously.

[@gmdrandom6287]

The first point is misleading. Patricia did peak with 215 mph sustained winds, but made landfall as a category 4 storm with 150 sustained winds in a relatively unpopulated area.

[@Sivah_Akash]

MinuteEarth also needs to make a video about how individual carbon footprint should not be a major issue to be solved by an individual. There are far more important things than putting a single person to shame about their footprint (which most of the times is decided by the society they live in than themselves!.

[@madisonm1310]

Helene was a tropical storm when it hit WNC, but it still devastated us

[@LFTRnow]

Also, you need to check if it is full of sharks.

[@JarieSuicune]

Next Smash Bros. member introduction: "Sharknado bites out a victory!"

[@kodychan3477]

actually we already have a scale that measures damage potential. its called the Cyclone Destruction Potential Scale or CDPS.

[@soundrogue4472]

0:54 I mean not really; in video games you run across this. Just because it can deal a lot of damage doesn't mean it's in the right spot to deal a lot of damage.

[@rianorixalaunana357]

Wonderful video! Just one thing: in the video (at 0:45 ) it says "nearly 10 times more damage," but the number shown on screen has gone from millions to billions. It should be nearly 1000 times more damage, since a billion is a thousand million. (Yes I know this video is two years old, so?)

[@Hayden2002WX]

2:27 Ah yes, the pansexual hurricane scale

[@Hello123epy4u]

Lol

[@Vroome942]

💀👍

[@arandomuserofinternet]

that's bisexual pansexual is pink yellow blue bi is pink purple blue

[@ChrisG0original]

@@arandomuserofinternetnerd of gayness💀💀💀💀

[@arandomuserofinternet]

@@ChrisG0original dawg not every pride related thing is gay 😂

[@elreno2013]

Not being a nerd,just meteorlogist student. Category 1: Minimal Impact Wind Speed: 74-95 mph (119-153 km/h) Air Pressure: >980 hPa Storm Surge: 4-5 feet (1.2-1.5 meters) Projected Path: Likely to follow a predictable path with minimal deviation. Coastline Terrain: Flat, low-lying areas may experience minor flooding; minimal impact on well-prepared regions. Damage: Minor damage to unanchored mobile homes, trees, and poorly constructed signs. Category 2: Moderate Impact Wind Speed: 96-110 mph (154-177 km/h) Air Pressure: 965-980 hPa Storm Surge: 6-8 feet (1.8-2.4 meters) Projected Path: Some deviation possible, requiring close monitoring. Coastline Terrain: Moderate flooding in low-lying areas; potential for erosion in coastal regions. Damage: Considerable damage to roofs, doors, and windows; significant damage to mobile homes and piers. Category 3: Extensive Impact Wind Speed: 111-129 mph (178-208 km/h) Air Pressure: 945-965 hPa Storm Surge: 9-12 feet (2.7-3.7 meters) Projected Path: Potential for significant deviation; requires frequent updates. Coastline Terrain: Extensive flooding and erosion; significant impact on coastal infrastructure. Damage: Major damage to small residences and utility buildings; large trees blown down; evacuation of low-lying areas necessary. Category 4: Extreme Impact Wind Speed: 130-156 mph (209-251 km/h) Air Pressure: 920-945 hPa Storm Surge: 13-18 feet (4-5.5 meters) Projected Path: High uncertainty; continuous monitoring required. Coastline Terrain: Severe flooding and erosion; major impact on coastal and inland areas. Damage: Severe damage to well-built homes; extensive roof and wall failures; massive evacuation required. Category 5: Catastrophic Impact Wind Speed: 157 mph or higher (252 km/h or higher) Air Pressure: 18 feet (5.5 meters) Projected Path: Highly unpredictable; constant updates essential. Coastline Terrain: Catastrophic flooding and erosion; widespread destruction of coastal and inland areas. Damage: Complete roof failure and wall collapse in many buildings; total destruction of mobile homes; massive evacuation and long-term uninhabitability.

[@AstroFunn]

Jesus died for you he loves you. His blood cleanses our sins. Whoever believes in him with his heart and words may have eternal life.

[@Baller_TimeYT]

Hurricane Milton: 💀

[@AbyssalSoda]

Turned out to do minor damage, while Helene absolutely decimated the region - yep

[@hugocc7732]

3:08 wasn’t expecting a category 120 hurricane here

[@andrewcalebgorospe2754]

2024 eerily proves this video correct

[@1.4142]

Fun fact: The National Hurricane Center forecasts storm surge using the SLOSH model, which is an abbreviation for Sea, Lake and Overland Surges from Hurricanes.

[@yourreaveragesomali2817]

If you wanted to go straight in go to 00:05

[@massimookissed1023]

You know, I've done farts longer than the 5 seconds you think you're saving.

[@ikeroran7911]

@@massimookissed1023 k lo l

[@brumm0m3ntum94]

me getting ready to take a few minutes to find this time stamp to save 5 seconds

[@tonytheofficer]

This certainly has the same type of feel as the F-scale to EF-scale. F-scale was mostly wind speeds and visuals of the tornado as it was coming. EF-scale was more focused on the damage afterwards. Tornados are however alot shorter lived, and damage is usually quite quick to happen. Hurricanes lasting for weeks on end, can really make measuring and rating them confusing, as it's never truly possible to know exactly what one will do or what it will hit, therefore wind speed or pressure measurements is really all we can do to determine if its a tropical storm or a "you're dead" hurricane.

[@Popotato7777]

No matter where i look the world just seems working worse and worse

[@JxH]

For those that do not live at sea level or near the ocean, storm surge is a not a direct threat. For those that have wisely selected a slightly elevated location for their house, local flooding from heavy rain may not be a significant direct threat. Such circumstances may leave maximum wind speed as the only parameter of direct concern. Such is our circumstances, only wind. That said, yes, it's a good idea. Could do both...

[@cocoardo4394]

Love that sponsor!

[@alexnaya409]

it is probably a scam, dont trust them.

[@cocoardo4394]

@@alexnaya409 why?